The Outdoor Hospitality Podcast
Hear from the elite operators and brands driving the glamping and the outdoor hospitality industry forward. Gain insights on everything you need to launch, grow, and sell your business.
Our content includes glamping, STVR (short term rentals), unique stays, landscape resorts, RV Parks, RV resorts, and campgrounds
This podcast is powered by Sage Outdoor Advisory, the outdoor hospitality industry leaders in feasibility studies and appraisals.
The Outdoor Hospitality Podcast
Meet Your Host: Connor Schwab
A sign-off, a handover, and a candid origin story. We open with why the mic is changing hands and then dive straight into Connor’s path—from a childhood of four brothers and a legendary treehouse to a career shaped by a passion for the outdoors and a data-led obsession with outdoor hospitality investment data. You’ll hear how a sold-out weekend in Joshua Tree reframed “dirt” as valuable inventory, why the numbers pushed him from traditional camping toward glamping, and how a mother–son Kilimanjaro summit trip transformed into a year long 'R&D' trip.
Connor unpacks the deals that almost happened, including a pre-COVID lease-to-own near Smith Rock. We explore his years at Sage building investment-grade feasibility studies, harvesting comp data from hundreds of booking calendars, and partnering to elevate industry insights beyond surveys and into measurable demand. We also confront the hard parts—burnout, trade-offs, and choosing a mission..
Looking forward, Connor maps a clear product vision: hard‑walled, glass‑forward cabins within two hours of major cities, 20–50 keys, indoor–outdoor living without the canvas headaches, and operations designed for an unplugged guest experience. He’s stepping into US‑wide brokerage with his brother while continuing selective consulting and feasibility work, aiming to help founders buy smarter, fund faster, and build places that connect with the natural world. If you care about glamping strategy, outdoor resort feasibility, and the “why” that keeps teams going when permits stall and spreadsheets glare, this one’s for you.
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Sponsors:
Clockwork Design
Outdoor hospitality's top architecture & design firm. To learn more email christian@clockwork-ad.com
Sage Outdoor Advisory
The leading outdoor consultancy in feasibility studies and appraisals. To learn more email contact@sageoutdooradvisory.com
Hello and welcome back to the Unique Hospitality Podcast. The last time I'll ever say that, sadly. If you listen to last week's special episode, then you'll know that I am uh officially stepping aside from the podcast, although I'm sure I'll be back as a guest from time to time. Today we're kind of doing a bit of a meet your new main host kind of thing. You might remember, I think it was probably was it Christmas last year? We did a meet me episode where Connor interviewed me about my backstory and journey and all of that. So we're returning the favour today. I'm interviewing Connor about his story. Uh and I think Connor's gonna do the same for Sherry, who's obviously the new co-host of the of the podcast. Um always excited to always fun to talk to Connor. I'm kind of looking forward to learning more about uh your backstory. So are you excited to kind of delve into your your childhood and all the all the hidden memories?
SPEAKER_00:It's funny to be on the pod talking about myself. So I know in the podcast that I listen to, you get to know the hosts so well from their questions, but then I think it's really nice to get context on those people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that's kind of and that's kind of the goal for the listeners of this, is so that you can get to know us as people and have context for the things that we're saying, you know, on a personal level and also a professional level to understand what I have done or not done, and that might help give credibility, or you can know, oh, Connor's full of it on this one, he knows nothing about that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, just as a just as a warning to you, when I when you interviewed me, I ended up getting tricked into talking about my dating life. Um, I got texts from my sister saying, Oh, glad everyone else in the family got mentioned apart from me. I say you might you might you might get slagged off by certain people, but um it's good, it's good fun, it's good fun. So I guess we'll we'll go from the start. Tell me about your childhood.
SPEAKER_00:I'm the third of four brothers, so I'd say that really defined my childhood. I was mostly getting beat up. I did get to beat up my littlest brother a little bit, but yeah, mostly I was getting beat up and losing it at most activities. But the really fun and special thing was we got to do a lot of camping as a family. But the really special thing was that our dad built us a treehouse. I was probably like five when he built the what would become the third floor of the treehouse. And over the next decade, me and my brothers added to it. We built a roof and then we built down on the sides and we expanded out, and it was camouflaged and had pool pulley systems and baskets and a rope ladder, and we painted it all camouflage and um had little stashes for all the our our candy and things like that. And it was kind of the stuff of legend in the neighborhood. Um, and that was a really cool project. So I always like to joke that I've been in the glamping industry since I was five because we had a tree house and we used to have people come sleep over at the treehouse.
SPEAKER_01:I would say that there's some uh there's some strong genes in the Schwab family as well, because you and your brothers look exactly the same. If you ever see ever see a picture, it's hard to tell which one's Connor and which one's but um yeah. I mean, are you were you like were you taking part in building that? Are you handy?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I we I've swung a lot of hammers. That was about like as far as my carp, you know, carpenter skills went. I mean, it was a shoddy job. We would run around to construction sites as kids at night and just steal like the scrap wood. I don't know if stealing scrap wood because I think it was probably junk, but like you know, that was how we got the materials to like expand on because we weren't we weren't buying anything.
SPEAKER_01:Where whereabouts was this?
SPEAKER_00:Uh this was in Lake Oswego, Oregon, which is next to Portland, Oregon. It's like a suburb. And that's an outdoorsy area? Not Lake Oswigo, not as more like a a fancy suburb. Right. But we where we would go camping, we'd go up to like Mount Hood and in the Oregon wilderness, and we'd go to like Lake Billy Shinook and things like that. So yeah, we did a lot of camping throughout Oregon.
SPEAKER_01:And uh what kind of kid were you?
SPEAKER_00:I was a troublesome kid. School, school and I did not get along very well. I was always in trouble at school. I recently got to look at my uh behavioral probation write-up that I got at high school. I got too many jugs, which is like justice under God, because I went to like a private Catholic school. Just it was and it was basically if you get another detention, you're gonna get suspended or or expelled. So I was in trouble from probably kindergarten through senior year of high school.
SPEAKER_01:Just not that that surprises me. I don't you never it never struck me as a as a troublemaker. What are you getting up to?
SPEAKER_00:You know what was fascinating was I I got to go, I eventually ended up going to my entrepreneurial MBA program, which was you know all of my own choice, and I, you know, paid for that myself and through my own finances. And that school was all Socratic. So it was all student-led discussions. There was no lectures. Every every class, all the students were running the discussion. And I loved it. And I actually excelled and was top of the class and gave our commencement speech. And it was fascinating to me how I was so bad at school when it was just lectures. And then I think back now, I'm like, if I had to go to normal school now and you'd tell me to sit still for eight hours and like listen to you know an adult talk at me, I would still probably do terrible. I just have like too much energy and ADD to just sit and listen with no engagement. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So what were you just like messing around in the back of the class or too busy talking or what?
SPEAKER_00:My friend got married recently, and I mentioned this in his best man speech. Um there was this weird flying beetle mating season thing going on out at the playground, and so we got an altoid box and jammed 20 or 30 of these little beetles in an altoid box, and then we went into our religion class and released all these beetles in our religion class. Sister Teresa was not happy with making all these jokes about how it was the plague. They didn't look we didn't it was the plague in our class, and uh that that was a good that was a that's kind of funny.
SPEAKER_01:So did you this Socratic course? That was your M MBA, which was that come after college, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so post I was a kid who never knew what I wanted to do ever. Uh not in college. I love social stuff. I planned a lot of events, I was in the fraternity and did events in Rush and things like that. And post-college I became a recruiter because it sounded fun the idea of taking clients out on the golf course and out to fancy dinners and drinks. So they sold me the sales dream, and I became a uh a biotech recruiter in San Francisco for four years.
SPEAKER_01:You've you've talked about that before though. That that did serve you, you know, you you did learn a fair amount doing that though, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was amazing. I had really good managers and they taught me a lot, and it was just enough structure and support, but enough to just let you go out and kind of figure it out. And one of the things that really taught me was how to basically have a cold reach out to any business or any person and be able to try to find common ground and and make a connection. I think one of my skills is that I have no qualms reaching out to anybody and trying to make a connection. So that is a that's a nice skill.
SPEAKER_01:So at what point did you decide you were gonna uh go back to school and do an MBA?
SPEAKER_00:I'd really hit my stride in recruiting, and at my best, I was number 20 out of what I think it was 2,000 sales professionals in the in the world for billing. And it was a very money motivated culture and environment. I was just never about that. It's just like every meeting was about who was making the most money for the business. It just felt a bit hollow and empty, and I wanted something more substantive, which ultimately led me to look for the next thing. And it was around the time hip camp started in I was in the Bay. And if anyone knows, when you try to go camping and you live in San Francisco, it's it's really, really hard. And that's because you're in this tiny apartment. You probably don't have a car. If you do have a car, it's not a big car. So having sleeping bags and tents and cooking equipments and a four-wheel drive vehicle with space for your gear to be able to go camping is a real challenge. And then on top of that, assuming you have all that, it's extremely difficult to book any camping within three hours of the city because it all gets booked up because there's just so much demand, you know, for the very, very amazing nature, but very limited relative to the population. So if we wanted to go camping, we'd have to drive four hours from the city. And that was kind of when I got introduced to hip camp and also this like big need that there wasn't enough campgrounds and there wasn't enough private camping in the bay. So that was kind of the beginning of the slide bulb moment. And we would plan these trips. We'd plan big big trips. We'd called it like the adventure crew. And we had an email list of like 50 people, and once a quarter we'd plan a trip to Big Sur or the Redwoods or up to Tahoe or Desolation Wilderness. And that was the beginning. And then I went to a trip to Joshua Tree with some friends, and uh basically we drove into Joshua Tree from San Diego, and we we there was no campsites anywhere, and there was no hotel rooms, and we had all of our gear and we were up there for the weekend, and we're like, all right, what are we gonna do? So we look on Airbnb, and there's no Airbnbs left, but there is people Airbnb like the dirt, literal sand, you know, in 29 palms outside of it, and they provided a campfire ring, a picnic table, trash, and I don't even know if they did water. And we paid 50 bucks a night to go stay at this property, and we were thrilled to pay 50 bucks a night to do it and go get to enjoy the park the next day. And then we arrived at this property, and there was this guy had 10 of these sites, and you know, it was full the whole weekend. So this guy who basically was collecting tr people's trash was his only expense besides the picnic tables and fire rings, and he made, what was it, 500? He made 500 a night for two nights. So he made a thousand bucks over a weekend, you know, to take people's trash. And I was like, oh, this this might be really on to something.
SPEAKER_01:When when was this? What year?
SPEAKER_00:This was 2016, probably, 2017.
SPEAKER_01:So before things started accelerating the glamping wise, I suppose, you know, obviously under canvas or around, but it wasn't, you know, there wasn't an industry to speak of at that point.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I was more interested initially I was more interested in camping. Like, you know, you bring your own tent, things like that. And it wasn't until I started crunching the numbers that I had the opportunity to go to my MBA program, and you get to choose a thesis of anything that you want. And you basically create a business and you research it heavily and write a pitch and go through all the details and you have interviews with people in the industry and things like that. And once I started to play around with the financials, I realized that it's really hard to make the numbers work with campgrounds just simply because the you know, the price that you can get per night, whatever, twenty to fifty bucks, is really low, you know. So it's it's hard to make those numbers work, is which which is when I started to move into the glamping mindset.
SPEAKER_01:And your MBA was was worse.
SPEAKER_00:It was in Austin, Texas, at a school called Acton.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Is that uh I've heard uh well, I've heard Austin can be a fun city. Was it was it fun then?
SPEAKER_00:It was an extremely rigorous program. So the first six months online, the second six months in person, but the second six months, it was 100-hour weeks. I mean, it was cra it was crazy. We would meet at 6 a.m. and then have class till noon, and then we'd start preparing for the next day of case studies. So it was basically go to sleep at midnight, wake up at 5 a.m. for six months.
SPEAKER_01:And they partying?
SPEAKER_00:No, we would have I created this this group where we would go Fridays and we'd have a barbecue. And it was like the only time of the week where I would not do any work was from 4 p.m. to 10 p.m. on Fridays. We'd go have a barbecue, have some beers, and just not talk about school.
SPEAKER_01:You um, you know, you when you were doing this kind of case study, business idea, whatever, for you for your MBA assignment, you were moving away from traditional camping to this, let's call it clamping. Had you gone to had you had any kind of clamping or upscale outdoor experience at this point aside from that hip camp trip?
SPEAKER_00:I'd spent a lot of time in nature and looking online, but that really started when I graduated from that MBA in 2018, 2019. My mom wanted to, my grandma actually had always been really interested in Kilimanjaro. And so my mom mentioned that she wanted to go to Kilimanjaro, and I was like, oh, I'll I'll go hike it with you. And so we ended up going on a mother-son trip to Tanzania to climb Mount Kilimanjaro after I graduated. So shout out to mom. She crushed it, we both summited and had an amazing time, and then we did a safari after the climb. And yeah, that was my first time, I'd say, properly glamping. And I also think it was in the Serengeti, which I think is probably one of the more popular safari locations. And I think that in South Africa, probably Tanzania, Kenya, and South Africa is really the birthplace of of glamping and the transient luxury experience out in the bush on the savannah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day. You know, I was planning out some LinkedIn content for the next few months, and one of the one of the posts that things that I'm going to talk about is the Western glamping industry, I suppose, kind of started and evolved in the UK. You know, the the the origins of outdoor camping obviously, you know, don't come from the UK, but kind of the industry as a such started in the UK. Certainly the likes of under canvas in the US kind of pioneered it and and grew it a lot. Um and because the US is the US, that's where the capital will be, that's where a lot of the focus will be from from in the West. But I don't think you'll ever come close to matching how cool African safaris and African glamping is. You know, there's did a um we did a podcast with with the guys in uh was it South Africa, Sabi Sabi.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and Ghana, South Africa and Ghana.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and just you know, being able to step outside your tent and see a you know bloody giraffe. Like you're not you're not really gonna get that in camping in Texas Hill Country, for example. So I think that's that's definitely on the bucket list for me. I don't think you'll you'll ever be as I don't think any US project could be as cool as just being right there in the in the midst of of nature in in Africa.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it's it's a wild experience because and I don't know if this came across when we were interviewing the guests. Imagine you're in Yellowstone and you're like in a meadow where the animals would be, and they're just pitching a tent, and they might have five to ten tents next to each other, and then you're just on this meadow where the animals are, and then they run for whatever five or six months of the year, and they take it all down, it's like they were never there. So I don't know if people fully realize it, but you're you're out in nature. There's like you could walk in 30 minutes in any direction, and you you know, there wouldn't be a building. So it's very remote and it's it's very special in that regard.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so so your kind of glamping experience started after the MBA then, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, kind of, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That was so for th this project that you were that you were doing, you were coming up with a a business idea for something you hadn't really experienced. What was the uh what was the the pitch that you were making at the NBA?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it started as camping and then it moved into clamping. So it was basically buying five acres outside of Joshua Tree and buying the land and starting with campgrounds and then it moved into clamping as I looked at the numbers more. So it was a ton of research on the costs and the market and the visitations, and I called a lot of uh operators and things like that. Uh and then we pitch it to a board of prospective investors. You know, investors basically. Was it well received? It was pretty well received. I did learn there's a lot I didn't know about like zoning and permitting entitlements and utilities and like those types of costs and OTA fees, you know. So there was a lot I didn't know at the time that I that I learned more about down the road.
SPEAKER_01:And if you let's say you you know you're a millionaire at the time and you had the budget to to implement that idea, do you think if if you had done it in what you know 2018 it would it would have been a success and still be going there?
SPEAKER_00:If I think if I had gotten if I was able to get the right permitting and if I was able to, you know, like get utility access, then yeah, I think it would have cr I think it would have crushed it. You know, I think the Joshua Tree market maybe now has like a moratorium or something to that effect. But I also think it's a it's a really robust market because you just have that Southern California demand next to the Joshua Tree National Park. So I think it might be a little bit saturated, but I think you're you're in good shape.
SPEAKER_01:And am I right in saying that during the MBA process you kind of made your first industry connection with with Blake Smith of Warden Retreats?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah. So Blake Smith, the founder of Walden Retreats, was in the class ahead of me. And so they our school was very big on interviewing mentors in the industry, we know whether they had some way to help you or not. It was basically just like just be speaking with people who you know you idolize. And Blake was definitely one of them. And he was literally in the middle of launching Walden retreats when I was there. So it was very special to be able to talk to him and hear he's just a fantastic like operator and visionary. So getting to have his mentorship through it was was a gift.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and we we've done a couple of episodes with Blake, and they're always worth going back to because as you say, he's sharp and he's he's obviously learnt a ton over the years and he's he's he's doing well, he's in the process of expanding. So yeah, he's he's he's uh he's a great operator. You moved away from you got your MBA and then how long after it was was was that how long after that was it when you started thinking about doing your a project of your own for real?
SPEAKER_00:I ended up traveling for about a year after graduation. Fell in love, I think. Did f I did fall in love.
SPEAKER_01:See, it's my time to to get you back now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I did. And let's see, that was traveling, and I spent about four months in Africa, about two months in Europe, and then ended up like another four to six months traveling around the American West. And what started as just a trip to go hiking with my mom after the glamping thing, I was like, you know what? I ended up going to Rwanda and got really involved with like a children's library there, and ended up staying there for a while. And I saw a lot of really cool glamping projects being built on a lake there. And I had a chance to speak with the owners and the folks working on the construction of these epic bungalows that were like handmade out of thousands and thousands of kind of like bamboo shoots or like these reed materials that's all woven together. And and then that kind of was like, well, maybe I should just keep traveling. And so I ultimately didn't get on my return flight, and I I kept solo traveling. And then everywhere I went, I was like, where's the coolest, most unique outdoor or experiential hospitality, you know, in this place that I'm going? And I would go there and walk the property and look at the units and took I took thousands of photos, and it's it was super cool.
SPEAKER_01:Is there anything in particular you you took from all those experiences that you you carry through to today?
SPEAKER_00:Probably one of the most like adventuresome places I've ever been is Namibia. I always tell people it's yeah, it's one of my favorite experiences. I went there and I'd planned to go to the hostels and try to find someone who would, you know, rent a car with me to to do a four or five-day trip around the country. And no one goes to Namibia anyways. And then I was there in like April, which was just like tours low season. So I spent two days at the hostels trying to get someone to hire a car with me. Couldn't find anyone at four different hostels. And so I just went at it on my own. And Namibia's crazy because you could just drive for like two hours and you you might see like another car or two. There's just nothing. And I remember just driving around at sunset, and there'd be like zebras running next to just me and my car, and I have my windows down, like listening to music. I'm like, this is a wild experience. And I ended up staying at all these hip camp Airbnb things, and I ended up staying at this one property in Namibia. I was the only one who stayed at this, you know, quote unquote campground, but super rustic. It had the shade structure, but it had the guy, I was like, Oh, it's, you know, the toilet and the shower is like that way. So the guy leaves. I s I settle my stuff. I was like, well, I gotta check out this toilet shower situations. I walk around the corner, and the the toilet and shower are like built into this rock outcropping of the cliff, and there's no privacy. It's totally open, there's no walls, it's totally open air. And both of them just look out over hundred, a hundred miles of desert. And going to shower and use the toilet in that environment, broad daylight, just looking for a hundred miles. I was like, this is crazy. So I always dreamed of having a shower or a throne toilet with the with the million dollar views.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I know um I'll give a shout out Ryan McMahon, who was a big investor in Posh Outdoors, who listens to this show. He was on about um I remember we we we had Nico from um Topost Ventures on, and he was telling the story of how he nearly bought a nude campground. Ryan was on about maybe doing like a nude element to his glamping site when he when he does it. So maybe that's some inspiration for the for the nudist glumpers out there. Okay, so you traveled extensively, you gathered some ideas. When did this kind of first project idea come about?
SPEAKER_00:So basically January 2020, I started my property hunt and pretty quickly turned up a piece in near Bend, Oregon, near Smith Rock State Park. It was called Panacea at the Canyon at the time. And it was actually a pretty OG glamping property in the U.S. It had these, it was 40 acres high desert overlooking a river canyon. It had seven beautiful tents on decks with open air showers and toilets. So I that's why I liked it. And um, and it was uh this couple had spent three years building this thing, and then they'd been operating it for maybe a year and a half, and then they were divorcing. That's when it went up for sale for like, you know, 1.4 or 1.6 or something. And I looked at it, chatted with a buddy. We went and toured the property, really liked it. Again, this was before I knew anything about zoning and permitting, but basically I went to them and I said, Hey, can we do a least, a lease to buy situation where basically we come in and we start operating it? And and the place was super run down, like they hadn't taken care of anything. They hadn't, it had been a year since they'd had guests, the property was in rough shape. So, okay, what if we come in, we invest a little bit in in the property, in the website, start to operate this thing, see what kind of demand we can get, and then we have first right of refusal. If anyone makes an offer, we have first dibs to purchase at that price. Our plan, because we didn't have any, you know, large amounts of capital, our plan was basically to go in and ideally operate it for one or two years, and one, prove to ourselves that this market was viable. And two, you know, I always thought that I wanted to work at Glantine, but I'd never actually done it. So I wanted to see firsthand for myself, hey, is this something I really want to do? And so the plan was to get one or two years of historical financials and then go try to get a business loan to purchase the rest of the property outright.
SPEAKER_01:That that was that was January 2020. So I wonder what's around the corner.
SPEAKER_00:So we basically, I literally remember where I was when we were having these calls. And um we basically we've been negotiating on the lease price and things, and they were on board and they were ready to sign, and then basically they said, Hey, we want a little bit more money on your monthly lease payment. And then Sean and I, my buddy, we'd gone back and we were discussing it, and then ultimately we decided we were gonna come up to what they wanted. And then the next morning when we were supposed to have a call with them, COVID reached Seattle. And you know, it had like the first domestic cases in the US. And I remember looking at the stock market and like Marriott share value drops 15% in one day, and I was like, oh shit. And then so we postponed our call one more day, and then you know, looked at the news the next day. It's like airport shutting down, travel shutting down, Marriott dropped another 10%. So in two days, Marriott company value dropped by 25%. And I was like, this could be a terrible idea, you know, to get into leisure right now. Travel. So we we went back to them and we basically said, Hey, we'll honor our original offer. We're not gonna come up to your price, but we'll honor our original offer in light of this COVID situation. We don't know what's gonna happen. And they were basically like, nah, we're not gonna budge. So we ultimately walked away.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I always tell you that we're at different stages of our life, because I was just thinking, God, I really hope my uni exams are cancelled. Which they were. Um, but ACU I I I guess I guess you were, you know, looking back, you were glad that they walked away at that point, or that you walked away at that point, given I don't know how many, I don't know how long it was until you would have been able to open for guests anyway.
SPEAKER_00:I yeah, man, alternate universe of what that path would have looked like. I have no idea. I still don't know if it would have gone well. So this property is actually fascinating because I ended up shortly after this, I looked at like two or three other properties, put some offers together for JV's. I found this stunning property north of San Francisco, which would have been unreal, but we didn't I didn't know anything about permitting and entitlements. Not we were just gonna put it up and try to operate like a bunch of other people tried to do. Um, but it wouldn't have been legit. And those things fell through in May of 2020. I was like, oh yeah, COVID's gonna last a month. And then it went to a second month. I was like, it's only gonna last two months, and then it last well, three, and then all of a sudden I was like, okay, it's gonna last forever. So we ended up starting this, because I wasn't working at the time and I was just at my parents' house. So I was just chilling and was in a pretty fortunate position to not really have any expenses and also not have a job. So I ended up starting this thing called Journey Vitae, which is at my MBA, there was a class called Life of Meaning, or like a pillar of your curriculum was a class called Life of Meaning, which was on all these reflective and intentional exercises, and it was hugely impactful for me. And then when when COVID happened and everyone was isolating, I was like, man, there's gotta be something we can do. You know, everyone has so much free time at home and they're trapped at home. Instead of just atrophying on like Netflix and video games, like maybe we can utilize this time to do something like constructive and productive.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, again, different stages of our lives. I was drinking and playing online poker with my friends every night. It was honestly some of the best times of my life. So good. And it was actually during that summer where again I was just living with my mum doing nothing apart from the aforementioned drinking and gambling. That's when started making started getting into glamping as well. So it you know kind of kickstarted that. Yeah, so you start to get it.
SPEAKER_00:What kind of what kind of gambling were you doing? Was it put like Texas Holding?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, Texas Holding. We would just me and you know six six friends would just load up the laptops every night and just just shoot the shit and and play poker. And I think I kind of I don't think I've really played it since just because we did so much of it in that like three month period. But no, it was it was it was good fun.
SPEAKER_00:How do you how'd you do? Do you guys know who was like net up or was it no no ledger?
SPEAKER_01:I was definitely net down. There were definitely some that were better than others, but there was one night where we'd certainly, you know, probably had enough beers where we were just not thinking rationally, and I ended up winning like 300 odd quid that night, which is stupid that that was the amount of money that was being thrown about. But but yeah, that was that was the big win, and then yeah, we we don't have to talk about the net losses, but they were good times, they were good times. Okay, so you were you were doing something far more meaningful and productive. Tell me yeah, tell us more about Journey Vita.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, journey journey vitae is probably the the best thing that I've ever you know done or or got to be a part of. So I started it, I was feeling really isolated from all the amazing people I'd met abroad who were really inspiring. I was really missing my classmates who were entrepreneurs and doing really cool things, and I wanted to like reconnect with my energizers, and I saw people leading free yoga on Zoom or doing free pre-annal recitals on Facebook Live. And I was like, maybe there's something that I could do to give back to my community and also reconnect with my energizers. So I started Journey Vitae, and it's basically an eight-week program or like curriculum that I wrote, and it's 56 days of journaling. So every day is a different journal prompt, and then each week has a different growth project, and then you do it with a fellowship, which is about 12 people from all over the US and all over the world. And the very first thing you do is write your eulogy, and then you dive into gratitude letters, and you write a gratitude letter to someone who's helped you most, and then you dive into your relationships and who's giving energy and who's taking it away, and you end with walk through fear and then self-love. It was it ended up, much to my surprise, it ended up being like really quite impactful for people and powerful. And so I decided to do a second one, and then out of the second one, a bunch of people put their hands up to try to help and help lead. And then like we made a website and then started to create systems, and then we did four and five, and then six and seven, and then we had like a program for leaders and teachers, and we just we were used to do like six fellowships a year. Now we do I basically scaled it down to just do one. So we only do one a year. But we've done 17 fellowships and we've 20 countries represented, and it's just humbling to hear what people got out of it and what they you know, what they put into it. People really showed up and and dug deep and like made these remarkable changes in their lives, and it was cool to get to like be witness to that.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. That's great. And you you still do that now?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, I've mostly stepped back because it's it's it's busy. It's and it's all like a nonprofit, it's just it's donations, pay what you can.
SPEAKER_01:And so yeah, and what what came next after that? Was it Sandy Vans or was it Sage?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it was about a year of chaos, and then Sandy Vans and Sage kind of happened simultaneously. So I went to the glamping show in 22, I think. One, and it was my second time going. I had a chance to meet Sherry, the president of Sage. We hit it off. I told her about my weird and unique background, and she was like, We can barely keep up with demand. So I asked her if she needed to hire anyone. So I I was like, I'd love to work for with you and grow this team and grow this division. And she said yes, fortunately. And then started at Sage in October of 2021, I think it is. And then almost at that exact same time, Evan and Alan, who we just had on the podcast a couple episodes back, they were like, hey, we want to start a fan company. And I was basically trying to do both plus journey vitae, as well as I was doing some recruitment on the side to make money. And so for a two month period I was doing four jobs. And it was just it I hit a really big burnout wall. And yeah, I remember being in San Diego and I I had just been burning the candle at both ends and from my MBA to I was traveling and that sounds very leisurely, but I was probably moving to a new location every three days on average over the period of a year. So it was very intense basically trying to start all these businesses, the COVID chaos and I did that for a year and a half and then was doing Journey Vitae and then helping out with this like children's library in Wanda.
SPEAKER_01:That is doing really well. So tell us a little bit about that business and your involvement in it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah so you know Evan and Alan approached four friends and said hey we want to start a van company we want you guys to help us we want you to invest so they basically said we're trying to raise we want to raise$150,000 to build our first two vans and spend some money on marketing and advertising and they're like do you want to invest and do you want to work with us and they had one lead investor who did like 100k another another couple who did a small chunk and I basically invested 10K which is the same I invested in Posh. So I will be worth way more and so I I invested 10K and then I was supposed to work two days a week helping them launch.
SPEAKER_01:And their model is they do they buy old vans renovate them and turn them into kind of travel vans is that is that right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah so they they buy brand new sprinter vans which are around$70,000 and then they build them out with as luxury venture vehicles with kitchenettes, beds, AC, lights, cabinets, you know all showers, like all the amenities and then they sell them for anywhere from like$150 to$350 for some of the like insane builds. And yeah, that was a really good lesson in a lot of things. I ultimately after six months of trying to do these four jobs I quit the recruitment immediately. I scaled back on Journey Vitay and put that on pause. And then basically I was doing both sage and sandy vans and it was this it was probably the hardest business decision I've ever made in my life because it was basically do I work with my best friends in an industry that I really like or do I continue down this glamping path that I've been working on for three years and was my dream pursuit. And a big thing too was I wanted to move back to Oregon and get back, start to slow down and put down roots and stop moving and have community. And so because I could work remotely at Sage that was a really big factor. And I'd been working on glamping for so long and wanted to see it through. And one of the things was I still at least had ownership in Sandy Van so I could still go on that ride a little bit without being an active participant. So I ultimately decided to stick with Sage and go all in on that move back home and try to slow down a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:But to close the leap on Sandy Vans you're still involved as an investor almost looking as good as your investment in Posh and it's going well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah yeah those so man we had them on the podcast recently and I just have so much respect for what they've done. It's actually insane. And a big part of me you know wonders like what if I took the red pill you know and stayed working at Sandy Vans and what what would that have been like and you know didn't do Sage and didn't do glamping. And it's an interesting idea because they have just been so impressive. They've basically I think they did almost almost a million revenue in their first year and they've basically doubled every year since so like they're about to turn four in a month. It'll be their fourth birthday and they might do five million in revenue which is nuts. And what's crazy too is that market got super saturated and is way down. So if you look at the RV sales across the country basically they're at they're the lowest they've been in a decade. They're 30% down from COVID numbers and they're below pre-COVID numbers. So the whole industry's just been taking a total hiding and Sandy Vance keeps doubling. In a in the industry that shrank 30% in sales they're doubling so it's a huge testament to their hard work and and creativity.
SPEAKER_01:Well it looks like hopefully you know how to pick winners so um hopefully it'll be two for two. Yeah you you committed to Sage tell us about the work you've been doing for Sage over the last few years.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah so Sage does appraisals and feasibility studies. To be an appraiser you have to go through a lot of school I didn't have that I just knew the clamping industry pretty well and I had a lot of financial experience through my MBA. So I basically came in and was overseeing our feasibility studies for the outdoor hospitality team. So that's campgrounds, RV resorts, glamping. First I was working with the clients and writing my own feasibility studies and then ultimately we hired a team and I was overseeing that team and doing some of the more some of the most of the reviews and harder parts of the feasibility studies working with the clients and then in the end I was just reviewing them as we continued to grow. But the I mean the really cool thing was just getting to get so many reps looking at different outdoor hospitality concepts and see I think my superpower in the glamping industry is that I've probably looked at more glamping websites and looked through their rate and booking calendars than potentially anyone else in the world.
SPEAKER_01:And that might that is that's going on your headstone.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I think I've spent more time looking through glamping booking calendars than perhaps anyone else in the world. And I'd be so fascinating to see like a you know an iPhone stat on that to see if anyone's beat me. But essentially that led to if you're in the outdoor hospitality space you know that investment data is really hard to come by. It's not like other industries. But at Sage we were doing so much volume of looking at we were doing a lot of projects like more than anyone else. And so we had a lot of data that we were working with through them and a lot of you know every feasibility study you do a ton of market research on comps, all this info that we're putting into each feasibility study, why aren't we also putting that in a synchronized form and putting it in a library? So we started to do that and then we started to be really impressed by it. And then I reached out to KOA because they were doing they did their first glamping report. So I called them and was like hey you guys did a great glamping report. It was mostly based off survey data. Our team is working on pulling all this quantitative data on lights and amenities and growth would you guys want to partner on a project and much to my delight and a little bit of surprise they're like yeah let's do it. So I started working with Whitney Scott and Jenny McCullough and we published that you know Sage KOA glamping article in 2021 which was like a really cool moment for me to get to do that.
SPEAKER_01:And that's been kind of redone each year or the data reports have.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah so sadly we didn't keep going with KOA because moving forward they just combined everything into one outdoor hospitality report. So they combined Campgrounds RV and glamping and they didn't want to be like Sage is the co-publisher for adding this piece in glamping. So they basically just did it all on their own. But we've continued to work with the data and collect it and found a lot more sophisticated ways to invest in it. And that's been basically kind of my pet project in the industry and we've worked with Nick Harshall.
SPEAKER_01:But he's a good friend of mine and he's you still get my second wrong side no kind of the worst.
SPEAKER_00:But with with other Nick's brain and kind of my knowledge of the industry we worked on some really cool data projects which is basically like Sage's big competitive advantage and we try to release as much of that as free information to the industry because we want to see more projects get funded and and grow. So we want to make as much of that public and available to people to gain and secure investor confidence as possible.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah it's been super helpful. I know Posh Posh has used uh sage data in in our kind of investment materials burgeon industry like like this you do need pioneers like yourselves to make it happen it's not like the hotel industry where there's these established players that have been doing this for years so it's super super helpful. So that's been your kind of pet project in in recent years. What does the what does the future hold for Connorswell?
SPEAKER_00:About a year ago I've just been struggling with burnout for like four years. It was the reason I left San Diego and I was like well if I focused all my efforts on Sage maybe I'll be able to avoid it but the the reality was that like Sage was so busy and growing and we were hiring and our feasibility studies are so in depth they're like 100 to 150 pages. And you know I was overseeing anywhere from like four to eight of those a month. And so I got super burnt out and basically just needed a break needed a break from work. And so about a year ago I stopped working with Sage on a full time basis and took a break for like five months and um and was working with some outdoor hospitality real estate investment firms, consulting with them, negotiating almost went on as a founding member of a couple those but couldn't come to terms on pricing and things like that or compensation. And then in January I was asking my my brothers a commercial real estate broker has been quite quite successful in general commercial real estate and I was asking his advice when I was negotiating my compensation package to help start a real estate investment fund. And after negotiating for quite a while he was I came in with your knowledge and network if you came and worked on my team you'd be in a way better setup and you know compensation situation than if you you know joined this team. So that kind of got the wheels turning and I was like oh well what if I did get to work with my brother and you know help people buy and sell you know these types of properties across the country. So basically I started to get my real estate brokerage license in April in Washington, which is where I live now. I moved into with my girlfriend in Seattle and started to get my real estate license and then I had a bunch of consulting projects come up. So people were shoulder tapping me to evaluate deals or help with recruitment and also helping Sage with a lot of feasibility studies as well. And so I kind of put it on pause but hopefully starting on Monday I'm going to pick back up getting my brokerage license to work with my brother who is licensed. So yeah if anyone has any interest or need in buying or selling an outdoor hospitality property like give me a call and Cameron's licensed and I can cut kind of support him and then in the next month or two I'll have my real estate license and that is the main direction that I'm going is to do commercial brokerage across the US for RV parks campgrounds and glamping projects.
SPEAKER_01:And so that's is that going to be the main gig do you think moving forward?
SPEAKER_00:It's I think it will ultimately be a little bit more supplemental. I have really enjoyed the consulting that I've been doing for folks and I felt like I've just adding a ton of value particularly through this podcast in my experience and the the groups that I've helped I've been like wow okay this was a really big win-win I think these people are off on a really good track. So I am interested in doing more consulting. So if folks are interested anything like evaluating deals or transacting and then another thing I can help with is recruitment which is what I was trained in. So like if you're looking for a general manager or a really important key position for your company I can help with recruitment. But all that to say you know Nick, you and I were interested in getting in on the real estate side and having ownership in the real estate of these businesses. And you know that's my goal as well and that always has been my goal. So I am I'm waiting for the right deal to come along.
SPEAKER_01:Ideally oh go ahead no no I was just um yeah when you finish I was gonna say how they get in touch well first of all tell me tell me about the dream deal if someone's listening what are you looking for?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah so so my dream property ideally it's in you know the closer to Oregon the better I am I'm definitely willing to look at things all over the the US but the dream deal would be something in the West and something that has a a high volume of units potential like you know 30, you know, anywhere from 20 to 50. I used to want to do tented structures and the more people I've interviewed and the more I've learned they sound really cool from a guest experience but they sound really hard from an ownership perspective. So my dream property is more of a landscape resort. Actually honestly it would be using do you guys call them spyglass cabins?
SPEAKER_01:The units we have at Skyridge the the kind of our name for them is looking glass but the the branding at Skyridge is Skyglass.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I want a looking glass unit so for me the dream situation is a hardwalled unit that has one side or basically three sides of it are all glass ideally with accordion doors but that separate the bedroom slash the living area with an outdoor deck and patio and really trying to break down the barrier between indoor outdoor but still being able to close your windows, close your doors and be able to insulate and keep out unwanted sounds or critters and bears and things like raccoons. So yeah I'd like to use hardwall units, 20 to 50 units ideally within two hours of a major city is probably pretty big. I'm more interested in being next to a major city than I am being next to a tourism attraction. Um because I see this more as like a getaway from a city rather than like oh I'm going to a national park and I want to do this along the way. And the why for me for getting into this space is I I want more people to get outside and have meaningful experiences in nature. So they can disconnect from technology. I'm a curmudgeon I hate computers cell phones screen AI like I hate all of it and I just want to create a I want a haven where people can get away from all of those things um and and and live simply and presently and without notifications.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah no I think uh I think having that why is is really really helpful in when you're looking to do something like this as well just because you know it's no secret if you've listened to this or if you read my newsletter or whatever that it's it's bloody hard to to to set up these businesses. You know we both had occasions where we've both gone down the track of doing our own ground up developments and it hasn't worked out for whatever reason. And there are so many people who it hasn't worked out for and the ones who it has worked out for had to go through a lot of shit to to get there. And so you know having that why I think more than just you know I want to make money is is has been very helpful for those who have made it to kind of keep pushing through. Whether it's in your case you want to get people off their phones or if you want to create an amazing escape for people so that they can you know reconnect with their the the partner or their family or whatever. I think having that why is very very helpful in this industry.
SPEAKER_00:Remind me I I think I know what yours is but remind me of your why.
SPEAKER_01:Well that might be a problem I don't know if I do have one like I I I I'd kind of you know I I've talked about how hard it has been to get push up and running but you know I'd stress that that's with the help of three co-founders I haven't had to do any of like the on-site construction or anything like that. So I've only really done like half the half the journey is compared to you know an actual operator like you know Big Noel or Blake or as you'll you'll be doing. So I think mine was probably just like I've just done this for too long now I'm in too deep I'm not gonna bother turning it back.
SPEAKER_00:But what do you think my why is well I I I think I think yours is the journey rather than the destination. I think you'd really like the challenge of business. And I think glamping or outdoor is the mo like the most exciting vehicle for you to like experiment with that and be able to offer amazing properties and experiences for guests and like allow you to go go hard in the paint and in the business world doing something meaningful.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah yeah I guess yeah I enjoy the enjoyed the grind well enjoy is a strong word but I didn't mind the the grind and knowing that I was working really hard but I I don't think that's sustainable to be honest just to kind of just keep grinding and grinding without any kind of uh reason why I think it is easier and more fun now because we've got that site up and running it is real and you know you can do more fun things with your with your business partners but I yeah yeah going back to the original point is it is so much easier to do it when when there is a why because it kee gives you a reason to keep pushing through. So if anyone does want to get in touch about you know that dream property or if they want your services for consulting or brokerage or whatever it might be how do they get in touch with you.
SPEAKER_00:Folks can reach me at CJ Schwab10 at gmail is my personal and then the Sage email that I use is Schwab at Sageoutdooradvisory dot com. Or you can find me on LinkedIn and connect. So basically anything as it pertains Sage is super focused and specialized on feasibility studies and appraisals and they're the best in the industry at that. So if anyone has those needs basically we can go through Sage to do that and either like I'll hand it off to Sage or I'll work with you and be the consultant doing your feasibility study through Sage because they're the best and they have the data to do it the best. And then if it's something that doesn't fall within that box or particularly brokerage services, so buying or selling a property or recruitment services or something that might be a little bit more abstract, yeah, give me a call. I'll see if I can help or point you in the right direction of someone who's smarter than me.
SPEAKER_01:I'm sure the the email address and the details will be in the description if they aren't then don't blame me because I don't call the shots anymore. So that's all I knew Connor is there is there anything else you'd like to say before we finish off yeah I think you know I love going to the glamping show because now I think it'll be my sixth or seventh year this year.
SPEAKER_00:And it it feels it almost just feels like a friends reunion at this point. And I just find the people in this industry to be really inspiring and people have different whys but they're a tend to really like and resonate with a lot of them. The you know the reason we put so much time and effort into this podcast is to to keep the industry growing and for me you know giving humans an amazing experience in nature ideally fosters more environmental stewardship. So we're there's more awareness around around protecting nature and and trying to work in harmony with it and experience it in harmony and celebrate it and make nature valuable from a you know commercial perspective. And and I wanted to thank you Nick because the only reason I'm talking here on this podcast is because you know you've slaved away doing these recordings for three years and then graciously invited me to be a part of it. I'm just happy and honored to be here.
SPEAKER_01:And I want to thank you for creating this uh this uh this community and vehicle well thank you yeah you're right there was a bit of slaving away but it became a a lot easier when you came on board and you know you are you were the first person I called when I said I was thinking of stepping away and I was looking for someone to take over and um I'm so glad that you and Sherry are doing so and I know it's in great hands. Do keep listening it will it will continue to be great and I'm sure there's going to be a lot of growth so I'm uh I'm looking forward to seeing where you take it so thank you.
SPEAKER_00:And so the real question I think everyone's wondering is are you going to give us an update on your dating life?
SPEAKER_01:Oh god oh god oh no no I don't want to juke sit we've got three months left there's been there's been some activity but no no uh no new year's resolution of getting a girlfriend achieved just yet with some hot leads though the inch pipeline is full but uh yeah we'll see we'll see as the the the perfect ending note all right thank you my friend thank you very much thank you