The Child Care Business Podcast
The Child Care Business Podcast
Season 5, Episode 9: Why ECE Programs Need Child-Led Learning, with Stacy Benge
Literacy begins with embracing the whole child, says Stacy Benge, an expert on early literacy and a proponent of child-led learning. Her mission to help educators approach literacy in a way that builds confident, curious, lifelong learners.
In this podcast, Stacy defines child-led learning (and dispels myths about it), including the difference between child-led and adult-led learning.
Stacy also explains how child-led learning develops skills essential to literacy, and go through each of them: language, visual perception, phonological awareness and physical development.
She recommends 90 minutes of uninterrupted time in which children are completely in control.
"When I was in the classroom, I found that that's when most of my behavior issues released," she says.
Stacy also describes how listeners can create spaces that promote child- led play and connect all types of play to literacy development!
"Play is that critical piece for that language to develop. I always say a quiet classroom does not produce language," says Stacy.
To learn more about Stacy and her work, visit www.stacybenge.com. You also can connect with her on Instagram, LinkedIn and Facebook.
Her book, "The Whole Child Alphabet: How Young Children Actually Develop Literacy" is available for purchase on the Exchange Press website.
Welcome to the Child Care Business Podcast, brought to you by ProCare Solutions. This podcast is all about giving childcare, preschool, daycare, afterschool, and other early education professionals a fun and upbeat way to learn about strategies and inspiration you can use to thrive. Let's jump in.
SPEAKER_02:Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Child Care Business Podcast. My name is Leah Woodbury, and I'm happy to have you join us today. I apologize for my voice. I'm getting a little bit of a summer cold here coming off the end of it, at least I hope. Today, we are thrilled to have Stacey Benji with us. Did I pronounce that right, Stacey? It's Benj.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's mispronounced all the time, so I typically just go with it.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we are thrilled to have Stacey Benj with us. She's an expert on early literacy, and today she's going to share her insights on child-led learning. So welcome, Stacey. We're so glad to have you here with us. I
SPEAKER_01:am so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02:So we always like to start these podcasts getting a little bit of background on our guests. Tell us how you became involved in ECE and chose it as your career path.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I started working in after-school care when I was in high school, and then when I was in college, just started working part-time in a local preschool, and that was really my first introduction with three- and four-year-olds. And my original... career path or what I thought I was going to do when I was in college was speech and language pathology. And so I was pursuing my bachelor's degree in that. And there's kind of a story that has to do with the boy that I like kind of switched some of my coursework around. And yeah, but when I did that, I started really studying child development and started learning about the whole child. And I really, I just was enthralled with that and intrigued with it. And I still very much loved that speech and language aspect of it, but I loved seeing how it connected to the whole child. And so instead of getting my master's in speech and language pathology, I ended up getting it in child development and then worked in preschools up until my youngest son died. started kindergarten. And then I stepped out of the classroom at that point and started consulting and presenting. And then I learned when I was presenting that I loved talking about literacy, early literacy, but not just the reading part of it, but how the foundation supported. And that really, I guess like 10 years ago, I started kind of honing all my presentations around that. And that all kind of came together and created my book that I wrote a couple of years ago. So.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. That's a great story starting somewhere.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yeah. And the boy that I made the big decision on, I thought we were gonna get married, but we didn't. So it's okay. Like it all, you know, it took me down this path that I, that I'm, that I'm glad I'm here and I'm glad that I chose the career that I did. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, me too. Me too. Me too. So let's get on to the topic at hand. Today, we're going to be talking about child led play and learning. So can you define exactly what that is? Because I think it sounds like one of those things that often the definition isn't correct when people use
SPEAKER_01:it. Yes. And the last several years have started being very intentional in saying child-led play, because I think we're blurring the lines of what play actually is. And true play is of the child. The child is the center of it. The child has complete... control of it they make all the choices who they play with what they play how long they play when and where they play I equate it to like when we were growing up you know at least for my childhood you know we would get outside as soon as we could and we played until we had to come back inside but we as the children were the ones who were in control we didn't have the adults you telling us what to do or what we should do or how we should do it. It was all about us being in control. And so when I talk about child-led play, that's what I'm talking about is where the children just have, again, complete freedom, complete control of what it is that they're doing. The adult is really not part of the equation.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. And so child-led learning and adult-led learning, what are the biggest differences between
SPEAKER_01:You know, I think kind of, well, I could just mention like the child I played, the child with them being in control, they can pursue what they're interested in. They can play, you know, what it is that they want to play, what's important to them. And a lot of times we'll see, you know, You know, maybe if there's a show or TV show or something that they're watching or something that's, you know, that they've seen at home, you know, that could be like great things, too. Like if there's a new sibling that's been born, we'll see children act that out in their play. But the child, you know, they're pursuing what they're interested in. And what we see is if we give children this chunk of time to play, that they are persistent to completing a task way more than we are. We see if they challenge themselves more and we're seeing that sustained attention being developed and built. Well, if it's adult-led, and there is time and place for that, but adult-led is we create an activity, and it could still be, you know, connecting to the children's world and what they're interested in, but we find a lot of times it is more of a learning standards-based, like... You know, it might be more math related or more like we're going to read this book. I kind of look at it as things like, you know, our three and four year olds are not reading yet. So that's something that we can provide to them is that. that we can read to them. But really that adult-led, the adults guiding it, the adult has come up with it. I will say it still needs to be engaging, interactive, playful, but if the adult has designed it in any way, then that's the adult-led aspect of it. And there's a time and place for both.
SPEAKER_02:Sure. So before we jump into the benefits of child-led learning, Can we dispel some of the myths that are often associated with it? What are some of the biggest misconceptions about child-led play and child-led learning?
SPEAKER_01:That it's frivolous, that it's what we do after the work's done, that it's kind of this either or, children learn or they play. And really and truly, it's the core of children learning. developing, learning, and growing is that child-led play. And, you know, of course, my passion and my expertise is that early literacy component. But when we look at the whole child, that child-led play is really, I would say, the critical factor in the whole child being developed. Children have to have that play component. So I think it's that misconception of it's not, you know, it's not fruitful. It's not beneficial. It's just something kids go and do. But really and truly, it is the core, again, of them developing a learning.
SPEAKER_02:So so as far as let's let's jump into that a little more, how how the child learning affects literacy. So you say that literacy begins with embracing the whole child and not introducing reading and writing at an early age, like a lot of us may think of how you learn reading and writing. How does that child-led learning factor into that approach?
SPEAKER_01:I think we have to start that with looking at the developmental foundations that need to be in place to support future reading and writing. Right. children have a hard time tracking the text because they're going up and down with their eyes. Well, that affects fluency. That affects comprehension. So that vestibular system is an important part. We have a system called the proprioceptive system, which is the awareness of where our body is in space. Well, this controls, you know, how much strength we hold a pencil with, how much pressure we put on the paper. It holds, you know, turning a page and not ripping the page and not having to think where do I put my finger to turn the page we just do it mindlessly because our brains have learned to regulate that well that's a key component because if you have to think about turning the page well that's going to affect your comprehension and your your thought process and then the ability to cross midlines um So we can divide our body between left and right. So when we're writing, we're actually taking a hand across the paper. We're actually our brain has to learn to isolate one part of the body while taking the other part of the body across the midline. So that's something that has to develop. And then our eyes going across the page, that's crossing midlines as well. So all of this to say, and this is one little small thing. this is just a little portion of the foundations to support future reading and writing, but how do those develop best? They develop best when children are guiding their own play because we find that children are very intuitive to what their bodies need. So their brains are saying, we need to develop these vestibular proprioceptive systems. So we need to spin. We need to hang upside down. We need to climb. We need these movements that I think as adults, I mean, we could do like a, you know, a musical movement that's intentionally putting the head in a different position or crossing the midline, but it's not as effective as children running around the playground and spinning and playing. My mom posted something on Facebook yesterday. One of her friends, it was one of her friend's birthdays, but they've been friends for 70 years. And my mom kind of went back to recounting some of the things they did as children. This would have been like the early 50s. But one of the things that she said was, you know, I remember us out in the front yard and spinning and spinning and spinning until we fell down. And then we'd lay on the ground and like watch, you know, kind of watch the sky spin and go around us. Well, that's an example of child led play. The children are completely guiding that experience. They're doing that on their own accord, but that's the body developing the vestibular system that it has to be challenged. Well, that strong sense of stability and steadiness is a critical component of reading and writing, but we don't always look at it that way. But I think that's just kind of a great example of you know, how that child-led learning kind of starts developing that whole child. And, you know, that early reading and writing instruction, if we, I find a lot of times when we start introducing that too soon, we're pushing out these opportunities to develop all these other systems that are needed for that, you know, that future literacy.
SPEAKER_02:And so that leads me to our next question about shifting to how that, how child-led learning learning and play develops those skills essential to literacy, which we already touched on a little bit. So let's go through each of them a little bit more and perhaps start with about language.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, language is the core of reading and writing. I mean, that's what it is. We are decoding language in the written form as we're reading. We're producing it, language in the written form as we're writing. So that language development really and truly is the core of literacy. How does language develop? It develops by children using it, them hearing human voices and talking with adults and talking with their peers. And if you step back and watch children as they're playing, they're talking with each other. And even if they're playing alone, which is fine, you still hear them acting out scenarios and coming up with stories. But yeah, but that play, again, is that critical piece for that language to develop. I always say a quiet classroom does not... does not produce language. And we can maybe have some teacher-led things, but it's not the same as those conversations that children start having with one another. And they can go deep with their conversations and the conversations about their ideas and what they want to talk about. We're the same as adults. We like talking about what we're interested in. So if we let children play, they can have conversations about what they want to talk about.
SPEAKER_02:All right. How about visual perception?
SPEAKER_01:So I will say since my book was published, the visual perception chapter, I think, has been that and the physical development have been the two chapters I have gotten the most feedback on. But I think the visual perception is something that we're not quite talking about. But visual perception is more than just eyesight. I mean, we have the mechanics of our eyes working, like the light adjustment and the vision. the focusing like farsighted to nearsighted. So we have all that, but then we also have this visual perception, which is the brain processing and understanding all the information coming in from the eyes. So we have things like a figure ground, which is pulling, um, a figure from the background. I think Easter egg hunts are probably one of the best ways that I can explain that. Like if kids are out and they're looking for the eggs, their brains are pulling that the eggs from the grass or from the ground. Well, that figure ground develops, um, with children play. Think about if you're out on the playground and you look and you're looking for a specific friend or you're looking, okay, where are we going to go play next? I think that outside really helps with that figure ground. That helps with literacy because that's what we use to pull the text from the page. And if we have like a chapter book with a lot of text, that figure ground helps pull the word that you're reading from the rest of the text. We have a process known as form constancy. So no matter what, you know, what position an object is in, it's still the same object. So I think if you take a puzzle piece and you're moving it around, no matter what position it's in, it's still the same puzzle piece. So that form constancy is the same process we use when we see a letter written in different fonts. our brain recognizes it's still the same letter. So no matter what font the letter, the capital A is written in, it's still that same letter. So when children are playing with blocks or they are, like I said, doing puzzles or just really moving any object around they're playing with, the brain is processing, no matter where I put this doll, what position or move the doll around, it's still a doll. So it helps with that form constancy. And then one more, I would say on visual perception, there is one called visual closure. which is if you just see a part of an object, your brain closes what the rest of that image looks like. So if you're in your closet and you see just a heel of your shoe, your brain goes, this is what the rest of the shoe looks like. So that's that visual closure. So when children are playing, so if they're digging through a tub of blocks or any other object and they're looking for something specific and their brain just sees a portion of it, the brain goes, this is what you're looking for because this is what the rest of that object looks like, although you're not Sand tables are another example if you're digging and only seeing portions of it. So how does that tie into literacy? This helps with future decoding and fluency because once you start becoming familiar with the words, you don't have to slow down for every word. Your brain starts closing the words. So that helps with that fluency. And, you know, like I said, I feel like the visual perception is something that we've just not talked about as much. But when you start learning about it, you're like, oh. It makes sense. It makes sense for, you know, the brain to have all these processes just to help function in life. But then, you know, with that reading and writing aspect as well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I never I had never thought of it that way. So I'm I'm glad you went through all that for those of us who. Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And there's more, and there's even more too. I can probably talk about that for a while, but like there's, there's even more like that, that, you know, those are, I think the three that probably, I think people are like, oh, okay. Well, when we actually put it to literacy. Okay. That makes sense. So.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. How about, let me see if I'm pronouncing this right. Phonological awareness. Was I close? Phonological awareness. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yeah. So, yeah. So this is the brain's ability to, to separate the sounds of language from the meaning. And so when we look at language, language is comprised of a bunch of sounds. And then our brain learns the combination of sounds that it's hearing and then recognizes what that combination of sounds mean or represents. So, you know, if I said dog, those three combinations, your brain goes, oh, dog, and you know what a dog means. But you recognize that we can separate these two. So phonological awareness, I tell this story often, but I think it is the best way to really explain what this means for children. When I was like, seven or eight one of my cousins asked me why are cuss words bad we call them just cuss words in texas but like inappropriate words he's like why are they bad like why are they and i was like i don't know and he goes well if you think about it you're just saying a bunch of sounds and so and and that's showing he was pulling the sound From the meaning. Well, the reason cuss words are bad is because the meaning is very inappropriate. And so that, that is, you know, but, but that was showing that separation of, okay, it's really just a bunch of sounds, but, you know, but recognizing that it's connected with a meaning. So phonological awareness, the... kind of the culmination of it is phonemic awareness. So every language has phonemes, which are the smallest unit of sounds. And if you think about when we're decoding words or we're spelling, you've got to break the words down into the sounds. So that phonemic awareness really and truly is critical for that reading and writing. Well, how that develops is children need to hear, again, lots and lots of language, and they need to have opportunities to play with the language and to play around with sound. So we'll see children, if they're playing with puppets, playing with their voices, if they're playing cars or trains or something of that nature, we see them bringing in different sounds like for the train or room room for the car. So when they're doing that and they're doing it repetitively on their own accord, what it is they want to play with the brain starts strengthening the connections to hear produce those sounds. So, and I will say this, what we've I know there's a lot of curriculums that are kind of geared towards phonemic awareness and, you know, I feel we can maybe bring that in if we're doing a transition activity, but I don't think it is as effective as children playing and having like that 90 minutes of just playing with the sounds and hearing those sounds over and over and over again. And children also are not hearing as much language because of our devices. And either they're plugged in or the adult is distracted. So I think child play more than ever is so important for this phonological awareness because it can't develop if it's not being heard. Right. All right. Last one. Physical
SPEAKER_02:development.
SPEAKER_01:Which is, you know, I kind of talked a little bit about that earlier on the vestibular and the proprioceptive systems, the midlines, but our overall, just our, our, our core development, our muscle development, our brains and our bodies learning to work as a team. We utilize this every day. Yeah. just you know working or just children in the classroom but when it comes to that that literacy especially the handwriting we think handwriting is just a fine motor um a fine motor skill but handwriting requires the entire body to be developed um so we have a system known as mobility on stability so the mobility of our smaller muscles depend on the next bigger muscle being developed and stabilized. So if you look at handwriting, it's not just the fingers working. The fingers have to depend on the hand. It depends on the wrist that goes to the elbow, to the shoulder, to the neck and the torso, all that being stabilized. and fully developed. And then again, like I mentioned earlier, then we have that vestibular system to keep all that steady. We have the proprioceptive system of the amount of strength and then that midline development. Uh, so being able to cross the midline. So all these things that I mentioned, these are not things that we can teach. These are things that develop. We can create environments to help foster it. Um, And we can do, again, musical movements that are intentional, but it's not the same as children running around outside climbing. Swinging, crawling up the slide, which I know everybody gets all up in arms about. But all of that is engaging this neck and this torso. It's engaging that proprioceptive system. It's engaging that vestibular system. And we really need that to be fully developed for children to be successful when it not only comes to reading and writing, but when it comes to just functioning in a classroom. And I kind of gave this example. I was doing a training yesterday. I'm like, you know, As adults, let's say that we work out, we go exercise, and we lift weights, and we kind of isolate certain muscles. We're intentional on that. But let's say we get ready to move, like we're going to move houses. And we have several days that we're packing boxes and moving boxes and unpacking. And you get to the end of that, and you're like, man, I have some muscles I didn't know existed. Because they weren't being utilized. Yes, and they're hurting. And you realize, man, those muscles are needed for this. I kind of feel like when I look at physical development, we can, again, do some intentional adult-led things. And I think it's great. We have children up and moving and we're guiding them. That's way better than them just sitting. But it's not as... as sufficient or as effective as children running around moving, or even if they're indoors playing, just watch how they're moving every second and reaching across their body and going up and down. And that's really kind of helping the brain and the body not only grow and develop, but learning to work as a team.
SPEAKER_02:I'm picturing my son when he was a preschooler, he was constantly on his head on the couch constantly. Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:How and why are you doing that? But yeah, I
SPEAKER_01:always say that children's brains tell their bodies what they need and their bodies and actions are telling us. And, you know, we might think, OK, that's a little peculiar. But if you think about it, he's engaging that vestibular system. It's engaging that neck and that core. So, yeah, there is a reason there was a need. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, thank you so much. Let's do your, let's get to our final question, which is how can our listeners create spaces that promote child-led learning and connect all types of play to literacy development? Big question. Lots of fun.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. I think first of all, we need to appreciate that all play is no matter what it looks like supports early literacy. So when we look at all those developmental foundations, we realize that block play, dramatic play, sensory play, kids digging in sandboxes, outside play, all of those are help to build those foundations that support that early literacy. So I think as embracing that and going no matter what children are playing, It's us identifying and going, okay, it's helping, you know, with these things, you know, these developmental foundations for literacy. But then as far as the environment, if we want children to be motivated to play, well, let me rephrase that. Children want to play. But I think sometimes we worry about, okay, well, will they play? Will they get bored? Yeah. On that, our role as the adult is to design an environment that is centered around the children who are in that environment. So child-centered doesn't mean like what's best for every three-year-old in the universe. It's what's best for the children you're serving. Is it your children at home or whether it's the children in your classroom? But knowing them, what are they interested in? What are things that they talk about? What are things that, you know, When we see them playing that they're kind of going deeper into that play and we design the environment around that instead of around a theme or around just a letter of the week. I mean, children are going to get bored with that if it doesn't connect to their worlds, but it's okay. What is it that they want to play? And we bring those materials in for that. And then we need to allow for chunks of time for children to play. My recommendation is 90 minutes of uninterrupted time where the children are completely in control of it. And I will sit till when I was in the classroom, I found that that's when most of my behavior issues released. Like there was, there was, they went down. Make sure I said that clearly. I had very few challenges when children were playing because they're in control that's what they're seeking and it's that child-led play who again helps develop that sustained attention and all these other systems we're talking about that are needed for not only literacy but just in the classroom but that that that chunk of time the adult steps back as the adult don't enter unless the child invites you in or you see the child about to harm Another person, themselves, or the environment, if you see something critical like that happen, yes, step in. But otherwise, stay out of it and just observe and document. And this helps you go, okay, what do they need more of to help with their play, you know, going forward?
SPEAKER_02:That's a lot to think about. Yeah. Yeah. But really interesting, too. Like, 90 minutes. Like, it seems like it would be a long time, but I could see how then they're using their brains and yeah, using that. It
SPEAKER_01:makes sense. Yeah. And it allows them to just really kind of go deep in their play and then figuring things out. And that child led repetition is so important and development and learning because children are trying to figure things out. And, you know, and, and, and again, I kind of come back to adults don't enter unless they're, invited um i i i kind of think of it like even though we might be watching the play and go okay you know what if they realize they could do it this way and this might be better but i personally don't like unsolicited advice i like figuring things out on my own so you know maybe make a note of it and go okay if i brought maybe these materials in but let let the child go forward the way that they're feeling they need to. If they need our help, they'll come ask us. But otherwise, this is their play. It's about them and the direction they want to take it. So we don't need to step in unless they do invite us in. I
SPEAKER_02:like it. Well, Stacey, thank you so much for your time today. This was really, really interesting. And I don't think it's a topic that gets the attention it deserves. So we really appreciate you shining some light on it. Thank you. Could you share where our listeners could find out more about you, like website or any other info or social media, anything like that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So my website is stacybinge.com. S-T-A-C-Y-B-E-N-G-E. Both my names are always misspelled. So I always want to spell that. So if you go to that, you can connect with me on social media. You can link to where to get my book, but I'm on Instagram and LinkedIn and Facebook and all my handles are under my name. And then my book, The Whole Child Alphabet is published by Exchange Press. So you can go to exchangepress.com. their website and purchase my book there. And like I said, on my personal website, I link to all of these things.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, wonderful. Well, thanks again. And thank you to everybody who joined us today. We appreciate you so much. All of you out in ECE, you know, trying to learn new things and keep your business running and everything. So we here at ProCare Solutions, we're always happy to support you in any way. And please do visit us at ProCareSolutions.com to learn more about us. Thank you, Stacey. And until next time,
SPEAKER_00:goodbye. Until next time.