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THE SJ CHILDS SHOW-Building a Community of Inclusion
🎙️ Welcome to The SJ Childs Show Podcast! 🎉
Join Sara Bradford—better known as SJ Childs—as she bridges understanding and advocacy for the neurodivergent community. This podcast shines a light on autism awareness, empowering stories, expert insights, and practical resources for parents, educators, and individuals alike.
Brought to you by The SJ Childs Global Network, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting autistic individuals and their families worldwide, this show is your weekly dose of inspiration and actionable ideas. Visit sjchilds.org to learn more about our mission, find resources, and connect with our growing community.
Catch us on platforms like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Goodpods—or tune in Fridays at 8:30 AM EDT on the Helium Radio Network’s Life Improvement Radio (Channel 1). Together, let’s foster a brighter, more inclusive world! 🌟
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THE SJ CHILDS SHOW-Building a Community of Inclusion
Episode 314-Homeschool Hacks and Learning Styles for All Learners with Linsey Knerl
"What if homeschooling didn't have to look like anyone else's version but your own?" This question frames our enlightening conversation with Linsey Knerl, veteran homeschooling mother of six and author of "Homeschool Hacks." With children ranging from 11 to 26 years old, Linsey shares how her family's "one year at a time" approach evolved into a two-decade educational journey that prioritizes flexibility, observation, and meeting each child where they are.
Linsey reveals her pragmatic "education curation" philosophy—connecting children with passionate subject experts through online courses, co-ops, and carefully selected curricula rather than attempting to personally teach every subject. This approach fosters independence while developing research skills children will need throughout life. "I'm not providing all the information," she explains. "My job is equipping them to find that information themselves."
The discussion explores how technology has transformed homeschooling, making learning more accessible for diverse learning styles. Linsey shares candid insights about supporting her son with dyslexia, finding the unexpected combination of audiobooks with physical text tracking worked best for him—not because it followed expert recommendations, but because they observed and listened to what actually helped him learn effectively. This theme of careful observation runs throughout our conversation, challenging parents to truly know their children rather than following prescriptive educational methods.
Whether you're considering homeschooling, already deep in the journey, or simply curious about educational alternatives, Linsey's practical wisdom offers a refreshing counterbalance to perfectionism. "Take the time to get to know your child," she advises. "Let them be more of the compass than the group of families on Facebook who have this specific curriculum they love." Connect with Linsey at homeschoolhacksbook.com and discover how to create a homeschooling approach uniquely suited to your family's needs.
The SJ Childs Show is Backford's 13th season. Join Sarah Brafford and the SJ Childs Show team as they explore the world of autism and share stories of hope and inspiration. This season we're excited to bring you more autism summits featuring experts and advocates from around the world.
Speaker 2:Go to sjchildsorg.
Speaker 3:Hi and welcome to the SG Child Show today. I'm really excited to get into this conversation, lindsay Neural hopefully I pronounced all that correctly. We're excited to have you here and learn more about you and some exciting services, I guess, and products that you're providing for families, because we know families, especially moms, homeschool moms, dads, whatever you are aunt, uncle, grandma, grandpa thank you, and we're here to help. We're here to give you all the resources we can. Thank you so much for being here today, lindsay. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited.
Speaker 4:Yeah, really good to have you and give us a little bit of an introduction. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what brought you here. Yeah, so I am a mom of six. I've been homeschooling since the very beginning. My oldest is married and 26 years of age and my baby is 11. Yeah, and I have been slowly building a work at home business probably for the last 16 years. Started out writing and mommy blogging back in the day and then it turned into a journalism career and then a content career and I've been just kind of doing a little of this and a little of that and it's been great because my kids are with me for the whole journey and as I transitioned to new things, they're kind of right there with me and it's just kind of a testament to how you can engineer your life to put the things that are most valuable to you in the forefront at whatever that happens to be at the moment that you're in.
Speaker 3:I love that, and it's never too late to do that. Six kids is a lot, and for those of you not watching this, you're not going to believe that she's really those of you that are.
Speaker 3:I won't believe that that she really has a 26 year old Cause I think she's only in her thirties, so uh um yeah, no, I have a 25 year old stepdaughter as well, so I totally get that and um, but only three, not six, but it's a in. We've been homeschooling now for as well, since oh gosh, since the beginning, since we were told that we would not be accommodated in our public school system, which was a hard swallow. I came from a paralegal background and for many years I was like why didn't you fight them, why didn't you, you know? But now I see that nothing that they could have done would have provided the opportunities that I have provided for him and that we have able to, like you said, kind of pattern our life in this way that fits all of us. And so, yeah, and we have a really tricky sleeper in our home who follows the moon and sleeps two weeks in the day and two weeks in the night.
Speaker 3:So in order to accommodate one's biological differences, sometimes we have to take things into our own hands and be the person we never thought we would be, which is the teacher we never went to school to be. But that's okay, you know it's. It's been a hard but really, really rewarding journey on my end. Tell us about your experience and kind of you know, why did you start it out? What happened? What was that key factor?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So you know, I think there are a lot of people that you know they have the thing that like pushes them out of the school systems. Maybe you know learning differences or bullying or you know whatever it is, and that's absolutely valid. We kind of came from it where we were moving and we weren't really settled in the community we wanted to be in and our kids are really tiny and we thought does it really make sense for them to be gone? You know, we our our system had just moved from half day kindergarten to like full day kindergarten.
Speaker 4:There was just a lot of it that didn't set right and my husband and I had not been homeschooled. We didn't have a lot of experience with being homeschooled. We weren't even actually like looking at homeschooling and going. That's what we want to do. We want to be like that.
Speaker 4:We were actually a little bit like, you know, I want to work and I don't really know how to interact maybe so well with kids at that age. That wasn't an age I was really very confident with dealing with, and so it was kind of a thing where we're like we're not ready to put them in yet. Let's just take this one year at a time and if it works, we'll keep doing it. And then you know, 20 years later, we're like this is, this is giving us the result, like we finally have like the product of our homeschool that has, you know, gone on to, to to be functional and well formed and, I think, successful from from the education and the formation standpoint and the formation standpoint. And so I feel like, yeah, there's a few things we did right. This was one of them and and that was that one year at a time experiment that we just kept, kept, kept doing and and it seemed to do, do well for us.
Speaker 3:Now, it sounds like, since you do have six, they are at different age brackets. How do you accommodate the different age needs and curriculum, if you will, and how do you spread it across? Do you do one subject at varied levels for everyone, or do you do them separately?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so because I do work and I run a business and we like to travel and I like to do things efficiently but also put the right people in the right jobs, I have more of like an education curation role in our homeschool. So instead of sitting at the table and doing all the instruction kind of circa early 90s 2000s, it's more okay, here's this great course and it's taught by a teacher who really, really loves their topic and they're passionate and I know they're going to pass that passion on to you. Let's have you take this as an online or we're going to take this through co-op or it's a lot of. I think eclectic is kind of the term yeah, the term I use in my book, but it's a mix and match plug and play and there's a few kind of core curriculum providers that we use for, like math. That seems to work for all learning styles, or you know some writing that learn, you know, helps. My dyslexic can use it as well, as you know my, my honors level writing student, and then it's just a matter of at their own pace.
Speaker 4:But by and large, it's just we figure out at the beginning of the year what we're going to use. I kind of know what's been working for our family and everyone. Just, it's like moving pieces on a chessboard. Every you know. I go around and I'm like, okay, what's your next move and what's your next move and what do we hope to get done this week? And what are our, what are our obstacles?
Speaker 4:And then you know it's largely self-directed. They're watching the videos, they're taking the courses, they're doing the work. And then they come to me with like I don't, I can't figure this out. And then you know I'm not calculus two material. So I'll say let's figure this out together, let's figure out how to get the answer, let's figure out who can be, because that's how it's going to be in college, right, or a job or anything else that you're doing. You're going to have to figure out who the keeper of that, that, that information, is, and so we're actually just equipping them to find that information. I'm not providing all of it. My goodness, I couldn't even begin to have all that knowledge.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I love that. No, I think that there's. I think that's a really important thing for parents to hear. There's no one stop shop there. It is a mastery of all. And there is, you know, the spider web of, if you will, of all of the things put together. Is the complete picture really, what about for any of our parents out there who might be struggling with a kiddo, who isn't interested and doesn't want to do the work, like, how do we help them look at something and be interested, or how do you kind of leverage that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it really is carrot stick, carrot being like okay, you know you like Minecraft and you know, every day you want to play nine hours of Minecraft, no, minecraft, till you do math. And sometimes it's as simple as that and other times it's, you know, okay, maybe you're not the kid that gets motivated by that, but we, we have to to, we have to look at maybe some you know, taking the phone away, or I mean, my kids have been pretty good about, um, not having to have. We don't wait until it gets to the point where we have to like, really just pull everything away, like it's not, like we're with them all day long, right, so we? So we get to see the behaviors, we get to see the, the obstacles, like before they get to the point where it's like you haven't done this in four weeks. Now I have to cry, yeah, like, like it.
Speaker 4:It kind of like falls on us to not let it get to that point. And then you know there are just some kids with some subjects that are just always going to be I mean, look at, look at your day, there's probably something you procrastinate, you hate doing, and it's only because you know, like, like taxes, like I'm going to suffer my house being taken or jail yeah, toilets. So so we, we can't really not see that in our own children and I, honestly, I just think I know what each of my kids is Carrots, what the thing is going to be, and I'm like here's what it is, and for most of my kids, it's video games.
Speaker 3:Honestly, yeah, well, and I love how much and how many resources there are now through video games. Like I remember, you know my kids are 13 and 15 now, so they don't. One of them still likes to play Minecraft once in a while and stuff, but not like they used to. You know they were really into it at the different ages, but I remember having one kiddo do multiplication tables in Minecraft, build their own multiplication tables, count the blocks, count the, and I really just tried to help them in and kind of help tutor them in that process in what they were doing, and that's so fun for everybody and then it also gives them a chance to feel real proud of themselves when they do do something and then they can show you, look what I've done and look what you know I've, I've, I've accomplished, and that's always great.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know it's interesting with that too, that you say that the video games have changed a lot, because, you know, I just cleaned out a bunch of homeschool curriculum, which is always a painful. Oh, we spent all this money for this. Don't want to get rid of it, but yeah, I get it. It's funny what technology has replaced and I, you know, I could look at it and say, oh, it's sad, but at the same time it's like, oh, my kids are really, you know.
Speaker 4:I think one of them was a geography website where every day they're learning a different place in the world and the capitals. And I had to look, I had to look at my, my books that I bought that were capitals and States, that that never got opened, and I thought, oh, I'm a terrible parent. And the kids are like why I know what these little, teeny, tiny countries in Eastern Europe are called and we wouldn't maybe have learned that with this very workbooky style of curriculum that you feel good about, because it's all very, you know, physical and very well laid out and beautiful. But it didn't work for them. And I think there's kind of being careful that we don't make things too precious because we like the idea of them if they don't work.
Speaker 3:That's a great point. I really like that. I think that we do put a lot of pressure on ourselves to do that. I'm like really glad you said that I do that to myself and sometimes can get in my own way in that way. And I agree that we need to look.
Speaker 3:This generation is unlike any generation that's ever been. The generation after that will be the same. That's how it works. You know, we have to honor the space that they're in and we have to be like understanding that we don't understand where they're at because we don't. We didn't have that available to us, we weren't nine and having every channel. You know we didn't have to wait for commercials, we didn't have to all of those things. It's like everything is available to them. We really have to almost dive into it, navigate it ourselves, so that we can be good teachers, role models, everything in using it correctly Right now.
Speaker 3:And I just had a wonderful autism event where I use chat GPT so much. I've, you know, had it put together so many things for me and I've done several events in the past and this one was the best, it was the easiest, it was the best, it was the best put together, because I rely. I use the tools available to me in the right ways, you know, without taking advantage or using them incorrectly or for any other purpose. But I'm now seeing, you know, my kiddos really not interested in having a computer. She just wants her phone. She doesn't even want a laptop or anything, and I'm like but there's these things that can really assist and I want you to learn how to use these tools to help yourself. You know, be better. But I also think I see the dangers in making them complacent. It's really tricky. You have to, I guess, have the right boundaries put down.
Speaker 4:It is, and you know we're learning alongside them, which is another another thing about homeschooling because you know, I see so many times on these, like Facebook groups or these boards, and these parents are like they think they have to learn everything first and then they can turn around and teach their child. And I'm thinking about these business gurus or people you know. You probably have seen them right. They're like selling their million dollar course or whatever. A lot of these people just are like have learned the one thing. They're one step ahead. Like a guru is often just somebody who just learned yesterday what you're going to learn tomorrow. And the same principle could be applied to like your children, like you don't. You can learn alongside them. How do we navigate technology? What is this thing? How do we put in boundaries to wait until you have it all figured out? Your children are going to be moved out and gone and you're still not going to have it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's changing. It's ever changing, isn't it, and I think that that we have to embrace that. I think that I had a really hard time getting rid of the books and the workbooks and all of those things, cause I did, you know, have one child that was very much kinetic, very much wanted hands on everything, and then one that was more auditory and visual, because she was dyslexic and those things didn't work for her. Those were written workbooks and things that she couldn't hear it correctly, was felt impossible for her to to learn from. So important to recognize your child's learning style, you know, and and how to identify those. Do you have any tricks that you might give a parent to help narrow down what their kid's learning style might be?
Speaker 4:Yeah, and you know it's interesting because we see, oh, there's no such thing as a learning style or the back and the forth of that. And I would just say that, you know, having a child who was diagnosed very late in the process was was 18 when we finally got my son, because we knew there was some. He was performing really well in school, he was getting A's, he was reading these giant books and he was enjoying them, but it was just, it took him a long time, right and, and there were just signs, or, and it turned out that the systems he had built to be able to perform were just intricate. Right, they're genius kids. Right, they form these intricate, little little systems for how to get by in life.
Speaker 4:And when we discovered this, we were like, okay, this is amazing. But also, looking back, I feel like I should have. I should have taken the easier path of least resistance right, Like not just because now I find out that was probably the only way you could have learned, but because part of learning as an adult is trying to find the most efficient, easiest way to learn things. True, and I love beautiful books and I am actually. I love classical education. That's pretty much what we do, but we mix it with technology.
Speaker 4:For my kids that have obstacles in their learning, A lot of it is just observation. You know, when we got the diagnosis, I started buying audio books for him and he told me mom, I can't focus on the audio books. Like, I know, this is how I'm supposed to learn better, but I still really like seeing the words with my eyes and reading along. And what we found is, oh, he needed audio books, but he also needed the physical book so that he could track, otherwise his focus would kind of wander. And so you know that's not something. Maybe that was listed in the recommended accommodations for him, but it was something that we discovered through time.
Speaker 4:So I think a lot of it is just listening to your child when they say this isn't, this isn't right or this isn't working, because he prefers not to do audio books for certain things, or he prefers to write old fashioned with a pen, even though it's atrocious and we can't see what he's written because he feels like that sticks in his brain better. So it's kind of finding that happy medium between what they want to do and what works for them and what's practical, like we can't take nine hours to take notes, right, we only have. It's just a lot, and I think the technology is really going to help fill in the gaps between all those different learning styles making things that were never tactical or tactile tactile right, making things that were never auditory auditory. It's a great time of possibility. But just because an expert says your child might learn better this way, they're still super unique, individual, human and they might have built a system where maybe it's a roundabout way to getting there, but that's what they're comfortable with and so I never try to interfere with that.
Speaker 3:I love that, I agree. I totally agree. You should always follow what you're. You learn the best about your child when you follow, and it's hard. I think parents struggle with that. I think that they come with an idea that being in charge means being in control and I think that that's a tricky, tricky tightrope to walk. I don't like I've, and maybe call it because it's child number three. You can say whatever. You know, it's number six.
Speaker 3:But the essence of having a relationship with this individual, as just this human relationship goes, is so much more important to me than the time that they're going to get out of bed or the dinner that they might not eat all the way, or you know, I just really have found this different parenting relationship with this other child than I have in the past and it's given me a such a different perspective of parenting that I could never imagine. And I said to my husband last night and I think it's kind of unique she's somebody that she's like my shadow self, somebody that I never could have been, and so I want to see every part of that thrive, because it's like you know, yes, bloom, please, you know where I was being. Like you know, told not to. Yeah, I think it's just really fascinating when we really follow and we see what works best. Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 3:It must be a lot of work, though, to you know, this was my question that came up before. I just interrupt myself with my own weird comments there. But what about graduating? So we're getting close to graduation. We're in graduation time right now for a lot of parents Help parents that don't understand what that looks like. You know what does that process look like? Do they do a certificate of completion? That type of how do we get to that when it's to the end, what do we do then? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:so I think again, this is what you have to do and then what you might want to do, and those are two very different things. Right, for our state, we just parent diploma if the kid wants it. I had two kids that were very much wanted to have a diploma at their graduation party. So we special ordered from a place that does them for homeschoolers, from a place that that does them for homeschoolers, um, and it was all nice and they had their, their cord, their graduation cord, and all that stuff. I had another child who was just like put, just put the, take the money and put it in my college fund. I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't want any of that right.
Speaker 4:Um, we had one child that wanted to walk across a stage with the local homeschool group. They had 50 students or so and they to do the little, the little you know, procession. Um, I had one child that just did a small like recognition ceremony with their speech and debate. Um group. Uh, I think there's a. The more connected you are with with community type groups and and clubs, the more opportunities you're going to see for that.
Speaker 4:But other than that, it was really just making sure we had crossed our T's and dotted our I's for the transcript and if they had taken any dual enrollment classes. You know college classes during high school that we got all those transcripts kind of all in where they needed to be so that when they do apply to colleges we have we have that information ready to go and I think that wasn't difficult. But I think that's a point where you might second guess yourself as a parent a little bit and say did we get everything on here that we did or did? Does the grading appropriate and does it reflect my child's effort? You know, if it was something where it was a little more subjective and a little more, you know you're always like that parent grade.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know that I think those are the more difficult things than do I print out a diploma, if that makes sense, I love that.
Speaker 3:No, I appreciate that information because, like I said, we're just 13 and 15. So we're still getting to those stages and my son actually completed the online classes and courses we were doing at 12. So it's been we haven't done much in the last few years, but we're going to figure something out. I think every family is so unique and different, aren't they? And I think that, um, doing what's best for you and your family is what's important, and there's just, there's resources to find. You know um, financial help, if that's what's necessary, or scholarships there's so many scholarships, what about that? Do you apply for any scholarships? Like you know, in Utah we have, like the ACE or the Utah Fits, all scholarships that our kiddos can get for homeschooling.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I've been following that the ESA scholarship space, very carefully because it seems like every month another state pops up with some funds. I live in Nebraska, so the odds of that happening are. We're not. We're not quite that geared towards that. We don't have charter schools or a lot of things that are. They're very different, but I know that we do try.
Speaker 4:The co-ops in the communities around us do try to really price things to be more accessible than maybe some of the higher cost of living states. Right, it's just a lower cost of living state to begin with and our big thing is just trying to take advantage of, like our state 529 plan where you can put away money for college, lowers your state tax liability a little bit and then that money sits there and grows for the children. I think our biggest challenge is having three in college at the same time is going to be a little bit of a struggle and we're we're just. We're just, year by year, trying to figure, figure out those numbers and figure out what we need to do as a family to tackle that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that. Well, and at least you're working together as a family doing it, so that's really special and that's great. Oh, my gosh, how let's talk about the book. Talk tell, do you have a copy of it by any chance? So you can? I should have told you to get it ready beforehand, so, but, yeah, I got, I have it right here. Wonderful Homeschool hacks?
Speaker 4:Yeah, tell us about it. Yeah. So it was funny. I had started this book. Oh, my goodness, 12. I can't even tell you how many years ago. I just couldn't. It just didn't have any traction at the time. It was like how to work, how to work while you're homeschooling, and the the number of people who were trying to build careers at the same time of homeschooling was a very small slice of people at the time.
Speaker 4:And during the pandemic, when all the schools were shut down and it just seemed like I was giving so much advice, I was. You know, news stations were calling and they were asking the same 10 questions over and over and over and over again. Right, and I thought I wonder if the book would work. So I did. I got an agent, they sold it pretty quickly. I cleaned it up, wrote it, did interviews, filled it full of you know, advice from different parents, because I obviously can't get advice, give advice on what it's like to be a military family, homeschooling or you know just different things that might help different families.
Speaker 4:And we packaged it up and got it out the door pretty quickly for a traditional publisher and it's been. You know it's. It's. It's not a.
Speaker 4:It's not a New York Times bestseller, but what's fun about it is that very regularly every month I'll get a parent writing me and saying oh, this was the book I wished I had when I started homeschooling. So it's very much not trying to come from a place of any political or faith or you know. It's like if I had a homeschool Monday, could I read it this weekend and at least feel confident that I could do it, and and I think that that that's what we accomplished with the book. So I'm proud of it in that sense that if you just kind of feel like you don't know where to go and Facebook feels busy and loud and the news feels busy and loud, maybe this is a little bit more, you know, pull it back and be really realistic about what you can get done and set some, some standards that are doable, because I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to do everything and do it perfectly, and this book is kind of the counter to that, I think.
Speaker 1:I love that. Homeschool hacks. Is that correct, mm-hmm?
Speaker 3:Super. Yay, make sure I'm typing correctly as I'm listening here. Yay, oh, yes, definitely go and get a copy. Where is it sold? Is it Amazon? All the places?
Speaker 4:probably. I guess it's in some Barnes and Nobles it's kind of where I find it all over and it seems to be just about in every library. So I know funds are always an issue. And so please go. If your family's you're not in the budget for new books, check out the library. I'm pretty sure most of them have it.
Speaker 3:Wonderful, and if your library doesn't have it, you can ask for it. You can request books from your librarian and they will look into them and order them for your libraries. I think that that's such a nice thing to be able to know and to do, and libraries have a lot of really great community resource groups get togethers, things like that. So probably check out your local libraries too for some good information. Any advice you would like to leave with our listeners today, or how to get a hold of you all of the good stuff? Sure.
Speaker 4:Sure. So my website for the book is homeschoolhacksbookcom and it has where you can reach me. Um, but basically I just, you know, I want to caution parents not to look to some of these people that have been doing it forever and have you know their curriculum all sorted and their systems all sorted and their bullet journals and their, their, their plastic containers and all that stuff, stuff, and feel like you have to get there zero to 60. Usually parents start with one subject, one activity. You know. Just we're just starting at one and we're building up and the biggest part is just to really take the time to get to know your child, because we talked about those learning styles.
Speaker 4:You cannot approach that correctly if you haven't just had someone on one time with your kiddo. So summer's a great time to just go for a drive. Take them to the store, slow down a little bit, listen to what they're saying and ask them questions about you know what do you hate about this subject? What do you love about the subject? Listen to your child. Let them kind of be more of the compass than maybe the group of families on Facebook who have this specific curriculum they love or the specific method that they love because your child is the one that you're, you're raising and you're nurturing, and especially if they have some, some special needs or some learning style challenges, that answer is only going to come from the time that you take with them, from nowhere else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that. I agree, I think that it's really important that you learn from watching, and I think a good word to say is curious, be curious, be curious about your kids. Then it's fun and interesting and you want to get to know them better. I love that. It's been so nice to get to know you today, lindsay. Thank you so much for your time. Yeah, thank you. Wonderful advice for families and everyone who can go to homeschoolhack. Let me bring that up Homeschoolhacksbookcom and and go follow you. What social medias and things like that can people follow you on?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I'm on Instagram a little bit on Twitter. I just it's L and my last name Neural K N E R L. Okay, yeah, so you can find me there and if you Google I pop up and you can see all the ways that. I mean, I'm just love that. My emails there. You can just you can find me and I'm happy to answer questions. I don't, I don't consult, I just try to point people to the right direction, me too.
Speaker 3:I love that Agreed. I think that it's it's really when you have resources that you can help families with, like, I think it's the most important thing to share, and I love I love sharing resources with people. So make sure that you also share this resource with any homeschool families that you might know that might need this information. So thank you so much for your time today. I hope we can stay in touch. Yeah, me too.
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