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THE SJ CHILDS SHOW-Building a Community of Inclusion
🎙️ Welcome to The SJ Childs Show Podcast! 🎉
Join Sara Bradford—better known as SJ Childs—as she bridges understanding and advocacy for the neurodivergent community. This podcast shines a light on autism awareness, empowering stories, expert insights, and practical resources for parents, educators, and individuals alike.
Brought to you by The SJ Childs Global Network, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting autistic individuals and their families worldwide, this show is your weekly dose of inspiration and actionable ideas. Visit sjchilds.org to learn more about our mission, find resources, and connect with our growing community.
Catch us on platforms like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Goodpods—or tune in Fridays at 8:30 AM EDT on the Helium Radio Network’s Life Improvement Radio (Channel 1). Together, let’s foster a brighter, more inclusive world! 🌟
Go here to download training materials!
https://sjchilds.myshopify.com/
THE SJ CHILDS SHOW-Building a Community of Inclusion
Episode 316-Finding My Autism at 44: A Late Diagnosis Journey with Professor Jason Ybarra
What does it mean to discover your autism at age 44? Dr. Jason Ybarra takes us on a profound journey of self-discovery that began when he noticed he could understand his autistic students in ways others couldn't. "This feels like a cozy sweater," he recalls thinking, as pieces of his own identity puzzle started falling into place.
The revelation transformed Dr. Ybarra's understanding of his past. Those childhood hours spent alone with art and Legos, the social exhaustion misdiagnosed as depression, the academic paradox of excelling in math while struggling with writing—suddenly made sense through a neurodivergent lens. His conversation with his mother after diagnosis brought new clarity to both of them, strengthening their bond as they reframed puzzling childhood moments.
Now as a university professor and planetarium director, Dr. Ybarra channels his lived experience into creating more accessible spaces for neurodivergent students. He's implementing autism training for staff, revising instructional materials for clarity, and mentoring students who share his neurotype. Most powerfully, he's identifying unique talents in autistic students and creating research opportunities tailored to their abilities—like partnering with a calligraphy-skilled student on a historical astronomy project.
"When you embrace neurodiversity, that benefits everyone," Dr. Ybarra explains, highlighting how accommodations designed for neurodivergent minds often improve experiences for all. His work demonstrates that understanding the autistic experience isn't just about helping those on the spectrum—it's about creating a world where different ways of thinking are recognized as valuable, where clear communication replaces unspoken expectations, and where everyone has the opportunity to contribute their unique gifts.
Ready to explore more about autism, neurodiversity, and creating inclusive environments? Connect with Dr. Ybarra or reach out to autism advocacy networks that can guide you toward resources and community support.
The SJ Childs Show is Backwards' 13th season. Join Sarah Brafford and the SJ Childs Show team as they explore the world of autism and share stories of hope and inspiration. This season, we're excited to bring you more autism summits featuring experts and advocates from around the world.
Speaker 2:Go to sjchildsorg.
Speaker 3:Hello and welcome to the SJ Child Show today. I'm really excited to bring a wonderful guest, dr Jason Ibarra, and we're going to have a fascinating conversation today. You know, sometimes you just align with people who are doing wonderful services and have great intentions and passion for what they're doing, so we love to find those people and connect with them as much as possible. So thank you so much for being here today.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much. I am very excited. Hopefully I fulfill the expectations that you just set up. I just need to mention that kind of. Whatever I say are my opinions and not that of my employer, west Virginia University, or the state of.
Speaker 3:West.
Speaker 4:Virginia.
Speaker 3:Wonderful. Thank you so much. We appreciate that and we're excited to hear your opinions. Tell us a little bit, give us an introduction and tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 4:Well, I am autistic, but late identified in that I was 44 when I found out Forty five, so it's been an adventure. I'm also an advocate for neurodiversity and I've been that much longer than I've known that I was autistic. It was an interesting coincidence. I think that I'm told that possibly autistic individuals know when there's another autistic individual, because I feel like I've had great opportunity to mentor students that were autistic and I partially, that were autistic and I partially. I was able to understand things when they told me that I realized that typical neurotypical people did not, would not understand, yeah, and and that made me start thinking.
Speaker 4:Hmm you know, maybe I should, you know, find out, because I seem to have.
Speaker 3:This feels like a cozy sweater.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I seem to have an understanding that, an insight, and I didn't think it was just that I'm an insightful person. I'm not too sure. I am but I was definitely having an insight to these students, um, and and, of course, when I found out, then everything made sense isn't that amazing.
Speaker 3:I couldn't agree more. And I think the same process happened for me as I saw my son, who was diagnosed as 16 months old very, very early, and so I was seeing you know, of course, what that representation was like. And then later, my husband, then my daughter, then I really honed in on. Well, wait a second, where do I fit in in this picture of these wonderful family members of mine? And and you know how, like you said, how can I feel so related to them and relatable to their experiences and things, and not and be typical and be a typical thinker. So, yeah, what a fascinating process to be able to go through and then to go, you know, have that introspection, to go back through your childhood and your teen years and really like, okay, now this makes sense, Shine lights on these things, and, yeah, what an interesting expression.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I had a really good but interesting talk with my mom after I found out because you know, I let her know and so you know she started talking about how I was when I was a child and certain challenges I had and things that she just didn't understand and like it's all like coming together, it's all starting to make sense.
Speaker 3:So was she supportive of that, then of the information Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:Yeah, she was, you know. I think that you know one of the concerns that she had when I was a child was that I was considered bright and and I this was in California. I did, I am from, originally from California I was pulled into, uh, uh, they had a time like a gate school, a gifted and talented education school, but, like socially, I had a lot of issues and problems and they, I don't know, it was something that it was not quite you understand that, where that was coming from, and she would talk about that of like you know, not understanding. So I think it was really great, and you know, to talk to my mom about this and get an insight to some of the things that when she would talk about like my expression of emotion, of like sometimes not really understanding, and she's like I know you really care and love us, you know, but like you know your expression, so like having it all make sense really, I think in some ways you know.
Speaker 3:Validated.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and also increased connection with you know. I think you know a stronger, maybe a stronger bond with my mom.
Speaker 3:I love that. I love that. I'm really glad to hear that. You know, and we all have our own different experiences, especially with the way parents perceive things, and I think that that was one be the same thing for you kind of an idea, and so it's been tricky. It's been really tricky. Um, but do you have any siblings?
Speaker 3:I don't know um, I don't either, but yeah siblings I grew up with and and so that's interesting too, because then you also don't have that level of comparison if you will, or you know, just being able to see that different type of behaviors from different siblings or such. So that's an interesting view. Interesting view when you were in school, things like that. What type of um hobbies and interests did you have back then and did you have, you know, struggles that you would perceive now as your autistic challenges?
Speaker 4:Um, okay, so, Ooh, okay, so I think we want to rewind. Can you ask me?
Speaker 3:You're good. I know I loaded you up with big questions so, um, yeah, what? I guess I shouldn't have done that. Sorry, I overloaded you on questions there. Um, what were your hobbies and and things as a child?
Speaker 4:I was a very like, quiet, willing to be on my own type of kid and you know I loved art and you know I would spend a lot of time, you know, with art or you know, I was much younger.
Speaker 4:Like you know, legos were really just to myself, very to myself, and I think maybe part of that was originally thought to. You know, I don't have siblings, so maybe that's why I'm, you know, to myself, yeah, I think, mostly kind of art, but I love learning. So I unfortunately, you know, I'm not someone that can read fiction very well, but I can read nonfiction things and, you know, and, like you know, try to learn something. So I was always tinkering with stuff, maybe sometimes breaking things.
Speaker 3:Just to put them back together, Maybe no.
Speaker 4:But I was good at breaking things, putting them back together. You know, I would have the occasional extra part. So, I would say, for a lot of it I was just kind of you know, alone to myself. I think some of the you know I had social challenges. I think some of the you know I had social challenges. I think I think you know many of us do, and I didn't know why. But like after school, I would just have to be.
Speaker 4:I would not do anything like at all for hours like you, you know, and and you know, it's like I didn't think I was lazy. I was like, oh, maybe I'm lazy, I don't know, but I just need to lay down yeah um and so.
Speaker 4:so some of that kind of exhaustion, you know, social exhaustion, I think was unfortunately later in life misdiagnosed as depression. Yeah, um and and and. So you know that, uh, that was like, okay, all right, maybe, maybe when I was a kid I was really depressed to know about that Um, but now, like I know, it's not that um, that I'm not saying that. I don't have depression, but I'm saying that it's nowhere near what. I was originally diagnosed as it's just that social situations completely drain me.
Speaker 3:And isn't that an interesting perception that doctors and psychologists had back then, that the perceived loneliness of a person, or wanting to be alone, that, you know, wanting that isolation, is this perceived depression state. Or you know, and I have a child who is, I'm, extremely outgoing and loud and friendly and bubbly. She is exactly my opposite. She is the shadow of me and a hundred percent. You know, in wonderful ways she's quiet and introspective and listens to everything and it's just, oh, is the observer. You know, I like to think of her as the observer. She wants to be a part of things by observing. She doesn't necessarily want to be thrown into the mix of it all and everything. And I've really found this respect for that in her that I may not have understood in other people and I think that maybe others misunderstand about her and misperceive her. And I kind of wanted to touch on that because I like that.
Speaker 3:You said you know I liked to be alone. I liked to because I think that's an important thing for parents especially to hear is that the understanding that you know one wants to spend their time alone isn't necessarily, doesn't need to be personalized onto yourself as a parent, that it's something that is wrong. That is something, that is bad behavior or anything. I hate that word, anything like that. I think that it's when we really are curious about the individual themselves and what really satisfies and brings out their own personal desires, then we get to know them on the level of who they really are. And my husband has this wonderful saying, and that is you will fail a hundred out of a hundred times of pretending to be someone else. You only can be who you really are, and that's where it comes down to. I have to juggle with people having these ideas that she's someone she's not Did. Was that something that you found in others um views or opinions of that?
Speaker 4:Hmm, you know, I don't know, and so I'll just say I don't know. But you know, we do know that, like autism, you know, oftentimes there is a genetic aspect to that, and I don't think my mom will ever listen to this, so I think she might be a bit neurodivergent and so in some ways let me be myself, because she also was different than her family different than her family, and so, in that respect at least, I didn't have I never had any expectation from my parents to be different and I really appreciate that aspect.
Speaker 4:It doesn't mean that they necessarily understand things, but I feel like that was a very and I think they were, for the most part, okay with me. And that was great, and so you know home is where I felt safe. But, being out in the world. You know I needed a place to recharge, and so you know I wasn't doing much at home, but that was because I was recharging.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. What did college look like after high school? Was that an easier time? Did you go to West Virginia? I'm just kidding.
Speaker 4:So you know I was bored a lot in school, k-12 kind of education. So you know, in fact, one thing you learn very young is that where you live, like, the school systems are very different, and so where I ended up living in a more rural area when I was younger, they didn't know what to do with me. So they just like, well, we'll just have you go into the computer lab because we can't teach you math, because you know it already, like earned it and like so. So, um, you know so, so I so. So there was that aspect, but then there's also the the that I have which is writing or communicating in general.
Speaker 4:But, like writing, it takes me a very long time to write. So then it was like oh well, you know, we're not going to put him in. Like you know, the higher.
Speaker 4:English class because it's not writing. We ask for an essay and he writes a paragraph and things like that. I was like, well, I put everything I need to say in this paragraph and now I understand that. You know, at the time, um, a lot of my issue was with writing, was not fully knowing what other people did not know, because everything that I wrote made sense to me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, neurodiversity is an interesting thing, right? I think very oftentimes people think, okay, yeah, when someone's neurodivergent, you know, how do we understand this person? But realize that person is trying to understand you? Yeah, you know, just as as difficult time that neurotypical people may have in trying to realize what, what, what's going on or what struggles or what thoughts or just anything. I mean, there is the reverse, you know, I or at least that's kind of like what challenge I noted was like, okay, I also have, and perhaps I realized later on okay, yeah, part of what is going on in my world is I don't understand the world around me, the neurotypical world, and that is what contributes to the exhaustion and the retreating and the aspects of anxiety that are induced by that.
Speaker 3:Because the world is foreign to me Absolutely. Tell us about the work you're doing now at the university and what that looks like, how you got into that and how it's, you know, changing that those students um kind of accessibility and accommodations of what they can get at their college now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, um yeah. So, and I've given this some thought and one of the I think it's so important to that, you know, there is more awareness of neurodiversity and things that can be, you know, um diagnosed, um you know being you know, living in a rural area you know that wasn't something that was on anyone's radar.
Speaker 4:Um, I I think if there's something that I feel like I really wish I had in life was the community that comes around, because I mean to know that there's someone else out there like I mean not only only someone, but a community out there, not being alone, um having people that can understand the things you say. Um, that I mean that. I mean I'm finding that to be such a important aspect now in my life. I can't imagine how that would have changed things or would have like what effect that would have been, and so I think the role that I play best and, you know, wish I had was mentorship, and mentorship from someone that understands a neurodivergent thinking.
Speaker 1:So important.
Speaker 4:I think that's the key to success In the kind of neurotypical world there is. A lot of. It is a lot about what's not said, things that are unsaid, implied I take things too literal, but like it's the things that aren't said and implied that in the neurotypical world, if you understand, that, leads to success. But who's there if you don't understand those?
Speaker 4:And so I think that is key. For that personally, for that personally, I don't think that in general the higher education system is set up to embrace neurodiversity. There is a lack of training and information and I think that's just kind of inherent. So information and I think that's just kind of inherent, so you know. But that's something I can, I can make a contribution to.
Speaker 4:For example, I'm the director of the planetarium and I wanted to have a low sensory day and I have, you know, volunteers and graduate students working in the planetarium. So one thing I could do was, you know, actually, and I worked with someone who, if you have not interviewed them, I mean just thinking of it, you should a wonderful person that lives in West Virginia, who not near here, a few hours away, but she helped develop autism training. Okay, that I, you know, then had students, you know, graduate students and volunteers in the department kind of go through for when I had the low sensory event, just to know what to do when this happens. You know what, what? What is a meltdown, what is a shutdown? You know, what do you have in place to make sure there's a level of comfort? You know, do?
Speaker 4:you know, what to do when there's runners. You know like there's a lot of things I didn't know about and I thought, wow, this is really great training, so at least the very minimum in the planetarium. My staff has gone through that.
Speaker 3:That's wonderful.
Speaker 4:So I mean, I feel like that's something a really beneficial thing that I can do. The person I work with you know she's an advocate and, you know, produced this entire kind of like you know, few hour training thing and information for free for us, which was just wonderful, yeah, and so I do need to get you in contact with her.
Speaker 3:I love that. I would love that. Thank you, and I was going to say, I think, that Harry James O'Kelly put us in touch. Possibly she's my master connector. She's like the muse that always was the muse. She's amazing I she sees things in people and this light turns on above her head and she knows everything that they can do to make their lives better for themselves and she doesn't want anything out of it. You know, she just loves to give the information and to help lift other people up and I think that there's that she is one special human being. I love her, so shout out, harry, we, yeah, I'm so glad that we were able to connect through her, and I think her son is, or even three. Two or three kids are up at Western, are at Virginia, right, west Virginia University.
Speaker 4:So so one of yeah, so so so one of her sons is. I'm actually his mentor here.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's so super. He's doing great things and that kid has a bright future. So I'm really happy to hear that. Oh, that's wonderful, Anything coming up in the future that you're looking forward to Projects, events, anything like that that you're looking forward to.
Speaker 4:Projects, events, anything like that, yeah.
Speaker 1:My mind's all over the place.
Speaker 4:So it yeah, so, and this is the planning stages, but I I love learning about what students is like, what maybe unique, uh, like skills and gifts they have, and can they use that in a way that may provide opportunities that they would not otherwise have. And so there's a possibility that I will be working with a student on a project in the history of astronomy based on their have a very keen eye for calligraphy.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 4:Um, and, and they are, you know, they're autistic, they're part of the autism program here. Um, and you know something I noticed and then I'm like you know, you know, is there a way, you know?
Speaker 2:would they be first?
Speaker 4:interested in in in kind of a project that I have which is looking at historical documents and helping kind of transcribe them, and they expressed interest in that and this provides an opportunity for people who otherwise just would not have this kind of opportunity to be engaged in some sort of scientific research, like you know, would not necessarily be recruited, yeah, and so I'm excited about that possibility to do kind of some of that in the future as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, kind of taking advantage of what I learn all the time. Right, if you're autistic, you don't necessarily know everything about autism and the different expressions of that as well. And one thing that I've learned to do and well, I think I need to back up for just a second because I wish I could just put something out there into the world and that is when you embrace any diversity, when you embrace neurodiversity, that benefits everyone and the things that we can do to knock down barriers actually benefits everyone. So one thing that I've been working towards and Harry Sun that's here at WVU is helping me with is going through old lab materials for the astronomy lab and just making sure that the instructions are clear and unambiguous Wow.
Speaker 4:From kind of a neurodiversity viewpoint. Yeah, because I, you know, being very, I'm now very cognizant and seeing where you know my students are, where challenges can be. This is one that is where I can make a big difference for some of my autistic students and it absolutely benefits everyone. Absolutely Right Clarity, unambiguity that can benefit everyone. So you know, that is what I'm working on this semester. Is, you know, are the materials that are within this course? So it's an old course. I was here before I came here. I want to just you know, I'm just going to go through and revise things and it's like am I making you know? Is the material accessible to you? Know, to all?
Speaker 3:Yeah, wonderful. Well, it sounds like you're doing some really important work and working with really amazing individuals, and being a mentor is such a special opportunity. It's such an honor to be able to know that you are helping to increase someone's you know confidence in themselves and in their skills, and so I really just praise you for that wonderful, wonderful work and you're doing there, and I'm look forward to hearing more about the autism program and and introducing me to your friend that is working on that. That would be wonderful. Um, that sounds like a fascinating um, something fascinating to talk about. Really glad that we were connected and we're able to talk today.
Speaker 3:And for folks that are on the East Coast and do have students that are interested in, you know, university, there are some amazing autism programs that are being put into place, and I know that Harry James O'Kelly, for example, is out there discovering them and bringing them to light, to shed light on them, for everyone, to get those resources available to them.
Speaker 3:So please reach out for that, if you are looking for that, if your child is looking for that your adult, I should say instead of child you know are looking for those resources at their college. Please reach out, and if you need ideas, you are probably welcome to reach out to Dr Ybarra to get some support as well. So, yeah, it's been so nice to get to know you today. I'm just going to quickly put your website up if anybody is interested in reaching out and supporting and, you know, having a discussion about neurodiversity, accessibility and how they can provide more opportunities for their students at any age, probably because I think there's a big discussion to be had, uh, and I think that the earlier we can help to teach these accommodations, to get these trainings in place, the better. Uh, and then moving forward, but I really do like the idea of you having your grad students and, um, the other um, employees or whatever from the planetarium get that training. I think that that was such a great idea to do that. So, yeah, great work you're doing out there.
Speaker 4:Thank you, I really appreciate it. I mean, I'm just I feel so fortunate to start being kind of connected into this community, because everyone that I'm being connected is doing great work as well, and to know it's out there, to know about the other resources that are because there's a lot of work to that. There's a lot of work still to be done.
Speaker 3:Yep, exactly, we're in it together Now we know that. You know here we are team members. We've got a new team member on both of our teams.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Yeah, absolutely Great team to be on.
Speaker 3:Yep, absolutely. It's so nice to get to know you today. Thank you so much for your time, for your vulnerability and sharing your story and for the wonderful work that you're providing for the community and really giving back, and that says a lot about you as a person. So thank you so much.
Speaker 4:Thank you Appreciate it.
Speaker 2:In the heart of a city. She's shining bright. Oh yeah, stories of love and courage all throughout the night, her voice resonating an anthem for all through the trials and the trials. Thank you. Life. She stands for family. I've kissed more. Movement of compassion. Ways will soar. Podcast together. Symphony on support in life changing rapport. She's changing the world for you with a heart that's fierce and strong. Empathy's melody in a journey we all belong. Through her eyes, a vision clear. Together we rise, shedding fears. In every heart, she plants the seed of understanding and love for dearly me, thank you. In a journey we all belong.
