Episode 351- ADHD, Stress, And The Environments We Can Change with Roman Wyden

“The struggle is real, the label is not.” That line sets the tone for a deep, candid conversation with Roman Wyden, founder of the ADHD Is Over movement, as we challenge the way modern culture talks about ADHD, behavior, and so-called “disorders.” We don’t deny the pain families feel. We zoom in on what helps: naming the real struggle, reducing stress, and building environments where kids can actually function and feel safe.

We talk through how ADHD has been rebranded across history, why the symptom “net” keeps widening, and what gets missed when we treat a diagnosis like destiny. Roman shares why he believes many attention and behavior challenges are driven by misfit environments and chronic stress, not broken brains. We get practical about what parents can examine beyond the prescription pad: school fit, household emotional climate, sleep, nutrition, media input, and honesty about what’s happening at home. We also dig into genetics versus epigenetics, and why hearing “it’s genetic” can quietly turn into “there’s nothing I can do.”

From there, we move into emotional regulation and conscious parenting. We unpack moments like embarrassment, fear of disappointment, harsh words, and “acting out,” and we reframe them as signals rather than character flaws. We also explore a powerful definition of love: accepting your child for who they are and who they are not in any given moment, especially when things go sideways.

If you’re navigating an ADHD diagnosis, questioning ADHD medication, or searching for ADHD parenting strategies that actually reduce daily stress, this conversation will give you language, perspective, and next steps. Subscribe, share this with a parent who needs it, and leave a review with the part that resonated most.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, and thanks for joining the SG Child show today. Such an exciting time to be alive right now. There's so many things happening in the world. I mean, wonderful and not wonderful, but we don't focus on those other things. We'll be focusing on the great conversations we can have. And I think in our era right now of life, we're really embracing what our minds can do. We're embracing the power of our human biology more than ever before, I think, or maybe even just discussing it more than ever before so that we can support one another with resources, with education, with experiences. So today I have a wonderful guest, Roman. Is it Wyden?

SPEAKER_03 0:49

That's correct.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Phonetic as it can get. And he's the host of ADHD is over. I'm so interested to find out more about this title and get into what that means and how this started for you. So please just introduce yourself. Let us know a little bit about yourself and what brought you here.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Yeah, thanks, Sarah, for having me. I'm really excited. I am Roman Wyden, and I have a movement called ADHD is over that includes a documentary that's in the works, a podcast, a recent book, and there's obviously a website, adhdsover.com. So I'm a, you could call me a father researcher. My own son, Kai, was diagnosed about 10 years ago, and that's when I started to kind of stick my nose into the world of ADHD, mental disorders, parenting, education, and so forth, because I really wanted to know, understand what it is as much as I could, and also how I could support my son. So that's kind of what brought me here is, you know, at this point, I'm ready to share with mostly parents around the world that have children that were diagnosed with what we call ADHD, the knowledge that I've gathered and the insights that I've, you know, gotten in order to see if it resonates, right? I don't have all the answers and the truth, but it takes the resonance of the parents to say, like, yeah, that that resonates. I'm gonna try that, or this doesn't resonate, that's not for me, right? It's uh ultimately up to the listener, you, the other person, to decide what to do, right? That's a meaning disclaimer that I'm not a medical expert by any means. But I've interviewed hundreds of them, experts, authors, and so forth. So that's kind of a in a nutshell, what this is.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

I love that. Well, and what in your own words? I want to do two this in two parts, kind of. I have a feeling. What did ADHD used to be known as? And what is it more known as today? And are those two the same?

SPEAKER_03 2:59

I'm assuming you're talking about ADD and ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

They're just when did ADHD? Come, was it a follow-up of ADD?

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Yeah, I mean, uh it is in the DSM, the Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, right? I I'm not a historian on ADHD by any means. I have it in my book. I literally just researched it and put it in there. But it started in the early 1900s when it was really kind of called the disruptive way of being for children, and it was like, you know, they're kind of like the troublemakers. So we need to do something about that and sedate them. And then when medication came in, it seemed to help, and we can get into that later. It wasn't so much that the medication that's used even today knows what ADHD actually is. It just does in the body what it does, and it actually does it even for people who don't have what we call ADHD. So, but then we get into that later. But then it started to kind of change names, and it wasn't like that either of the names made it better or worse. It was just people were just tired with one name or they would add it. At some point, it was called minimal brain dysfunction, just to give you an idea. And then at some point it became the ADD, and then it was the hyperactivity was added. So it's always changing and expanding in a way. And the symptoms, unfortunately, the net of the symptoms has expanded, so more people get caught in it. And we'll talk about that as well. But historically, I would say it's just been a matter of rebranding something that we struggle with.

The Struggle Is Real

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that over time, you know, the the facets of what their guidelines of what these things are are going to expand and and maybe they'll let go of some and bring in others, the evolution of life, right? Changing or we're gonna just keep evolving and changing over time. And I think that that's something maybe that I'm more of a believer in than, or you know, that's my opinion of that. But I really see just in even in my own family and my own children and myself and my husband, that different style of kind of making your way, finding your own ways to make it with what you have, right? And and I think that in maybe the time that we were growing up, because it possibly is is closer aligned in you know the nine 80s and 90s, it was more of keep these kids quiet, do this, do this over here. And now it's more of a okay, well, well, how can we create better environments? How can we look at more structured things rather than only you know the individual itself? How do you feel about those things as far as like society growing in its evolution with that?

Environment Over Diagnosis

SPEAKER_03 6:01

Yeah, I love what you're saying, and I totally agree that you know, essentially, and this is evident in the subtitle of my book. My book's called ADHD's over, like the movement, but I wanted to put a subtitle there that really explains it quickly where I stand. And what the subtitle says is the struggle is real, the label is not. And what I mean by that is that there are things that certain individuals are struggling with in relationship to their environment, right? Whether it's school, home, work. The label was made up. It was voted on by 15 people in a boardroom. That's a fact, right? That's not the label is not real, such as a tree is real, right? We made it up. We invented it, right? And that doesn't mean it's not real, meaning the struggle is real, the label's not. And so I always go back to there with people because they're like, oh, so you're saying it doesn't exist. No, that's not what I'm saying. You're saying it's not real. No, that's not what I'm saying. So the focus becomes how do we help someone struggle less, right? And you, like you said, you know this from your experience that when we take a child, for example, in the case of ADHD, out of a certain environment, aka school number school number A or one, and we put them in a school number two, right? They change. It happened with our son. So to me, then it was like, oh, that was the wrong school. Now, I hear parents say, like, well, we've tried that, we've tried that. You know, you have to get super honest about it. You have to really ask yourself, am I forcing my child to be at that school because I think that's the best school for them? Because I have this Ivy Leak track idea of their success ladder, or is that actually the right school for my child because they seem more calm, they seem more involved, they seem less checked out, right? We have to be honest about it. And what I've noticed that most parents still go, Yeah, I know, but that's a really good school, and they were able to get in, and then that's gonna lead to this school, and then he wants, you know, he's probably gonna go to Harvard. And you're like, okay, but your child is six. So does he really want to go to Harvard? You don't you don't know that. By the way, that's all gonna go away in the next 10 years, just FYI, not going away, but that that sort of higher education with a big name and the big price tag is we're gonna realize it's really just creating more stress for people than it is success, right? But that's a whole different story. But again, to your point, right? It's like as a society, and especially I call a family like a sort of a macro version of society, right? We have the power to remove stress from a child's environment, whether it's school, especially at home, right? All these areas where we can say, okay, what's causing stress here for my child? The problem I have, and this is one of the biggest problems, people think it's medication or not medication. That to me is an issue as well. We can get into that later. But my biggest issue is that parents are sold a lie, and that lie is that, hey, your child has this brain disorder, and there's nothing you can do other than medication and label them. And that, sorry, there's not much else you can do. That's just not true. That's absolutely not true. ADHD is not genetic per se, meaning it's not a predetermined set of brain wiring. It's predisposed, meaning if your family has a lot of trauma, history, like stress handed down from generations, yes, you're most you're more likely to be wired in a similar way over time just because you're how you're raised and what the transgenerational climate of the family is, right? But that means that means it's not genetic, it's epigenetic, which means the environment can turn on or off a certain gene. Even though there's no ADHD gene, there never has been one isolated. Just as a general example, that the genes are not, again, you're not predetermined to be stuck with a certain genetic expression. But when we hear, oh, ADHD is genetic, then we hear, oh, there's nothing I can do. So tell me what to do. And then there's the medication. And suddenly what I see happen is that the what I call a crutch or a band-aid that I think is justified. I think Western medicine has its place for emergencies. When it's justified to have that, say, for six months while you change schools, while you explore other things, most parents don't do anything but the medication, maybe a little therapy, but they'll they'll they won't change anything in the climate of the house, the household, right? They won't change the schools, they won't change the diet, they won't change media intake, they won't change all the other things that are not causes of ADHD, but that exacerbate the behavior that we then label as ADHD. So there's so much we can do, yet in our society, it's like, oh, you got a problem. Here's a pill. And then we don't, you know, it's like, it's like a check engine light comes on. I always say a child in a family that is diagnosed with ADHD is like a check engine light. So let's open the hood, let's see what's under the hood. But if we give a pill, that's like putting a piece of duct tape over the check engine light and going, like, we're good.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

We're good. Don't see it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Yeah. So I know there's a long answer, but that's kind of where I stand.

Epigenetics And The Medication Trap

SPEAKER_00 11:32

And there's so many parts I want to bring up in that. And the kind of latter one that I had just was thinking of was how that makes it so much more detrimental to the individual, how it makes it so much the individual's fault. You're taking this tiny human, you're making it their fault because yeah, that doesn't sit right with me in any way. And I don't agree with that. And another thing you said kind of towards the beginning that I completely agree with, and I would love to share kind of an example that we went through was the honesty portion. How honest are you going to be with your doctor, with your, you know, the the therapist or the psychologist who's diagnosing with the schools, with your own family, with your own friends. When my son was and profoundly autistic, and I mean, it's just so hard. There's so many ways to speak about it. When he was spinning circles, not making eye contact, flapping his arms, and there was very obvious that he was not acting like the other humans around him. It was so important at that time when I took him for his first diagnosis. There was this slight human fear within side of me that said, Will they believe me? Will he get, will they see what will this be real? And I just want to share that because I think that it's such like an emotional part of that process that happens and that trust that you have to have within this system that literally cares for the system itself, not as much for the individual itself. And so it's it's really tricky when you get go into those things. And of yes, of course, he was diagnosed with obviously was you know, all of the things, but in that, when I went back and kind of went over my mental processes of that that I like to do because I like measurement and I like to see changes and things like that, I realized that was this fear from all of the other things. What if he, you know, what if my mom was right and I should have spanked him? What? You know, what if what if the, you know, I should have waited till he was older and he'll grow out of all of the things that they tell you you should do when it's so easy to not to go with the ego, to go with the ego into the appointment and say, Oh, my child is perfect, and they do all of these things, and you're not honest with the provider or something, and then your child's not getting what they need. And I think that that is such a raw, vulnerable, hard part to be in. But once you get past that point and you have gotten past that honesty, that this is actually what's happening, that's when you need to be curious. Like you said, you need to be curious. How can I help? What can I learn? What kind of support can I find? And in those communities and in those supports, that's where you'll find more ideas, more education, absolutely, more resources. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

Yeah, no, I think that's great. And there's there's it's kind of a twofold there. Cause I because what I hear is is that what you're talking about is maybe when parents are a bit ashamed or they feel like they don't want to, it's maybe not as bad because I want to kind of avoid it, and maybe we can just, you know, look the other way. Sure, that absolutely doesn't help, right? And and I don't know, I'm not an autism expert. I I've come across many experts that talked about ADHD and also some about autism, but I didn't focus on that. But I still believe, this is my belief, that 97% of what we call mental disorders, and to me that's including autism, are some form of a system that at some point got so stressed or call it traumatized, be it vaccines, be it upbringing, be it a rough birth, be it an internal, right, like bodily stress that happened in vitro, I don't know. We'll never know, I think.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

Thanks to politics, we'll never know. But uh, you know, it's to me, it doesn't matter because ultimately I don't believe God makes mistakes. So it's not like there's like these broken brains produced, and it's like, oops, sorry, here's an autism. Oops, ADHD. Sorry about that, guys. I just don't believe that. I believe that a every child is exactly here in their shape and form and condition that the soul intended to get metaphysical. The soul intended to, you know, bring that body in to go through a certain on a certain journey.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Right? We'll never know. But the point is, your son is the way your son is, my son was the way my son was. And so there's the twofold honesty is the one you mentioned is one. Two, I will say what I've noticed in the ADHD world is that a lot of parents are not being honest with the provider about their household conditions. And what I mean by that is like, I remember distinctly I had this coaching client in in Australia, and we were on Zoom and we were talking for I don't know how many months, maybe three months into our work together. Finally, the mom said, and and and I always do a questionnaire up front, right? I really want to find out, like, tell me about every area of your life and the level of stress that you feel is there, right? Whether it's homework, the marriage, you know, cooking, sports, school, like we sort of evaluate how much stress might there be present for the child, right? A lot of it is a bit of guessing work, but you get, you know, I get good at deciphering what I'm dealing with. And so three months into it, the mom at some point says, Oh, I because I asked a few questions about what happened recently, and it turns out they were drinking. And she's like, Well, I mean, we're not alcoholics. I mean, well, I guess we would be because we do drink every day. And I was like, okay, wait, hold on, go back. Because that's a major, you know, shame-based lie of like, well, you know, I didn't mention it four months ago when we did the intake, but that's a huge factor, right? So there is this idea that parents will say to the provider, everything's fine at home, right? And so now the provider thinks, oh, so then it's just at school. Okay, there we go. That's typical ADHD school. Yeah, yeah, we give medication better grades, all is well. And then some of these kids take medications and they're not necessarily doing well long term. Medications work short term, but academically they're not doing that well. And so now it's like, oh, the medication's not working. We got to try different medications. But no one ever talks about the household and that maybe the father's an alcoholic and the mother is a workaholic, and they're just not present for the child. And so therefore the child feels unsafe because they can tell that they're not available and that creates a feeling of unsafety. And then you numb out, you check out because that doesn't feel comfortable, right? So again, I'm not saying I know the cause of ADHD, but with our own son, I've seen that as a factor because I wasn't emotionally available as a dad. I was checked out at the time. I was checked out of my marriage. My ex was a workaholic, you know. I mean, it's not a surprise that there were there were issues and focus and attention, you know.

Honesty About Home Stress

SPEAKER_00 19:28

And I love how you though brought up the the epigenetics part of it, because I I really, really believe in that they don't talk enough about what was passed on to us from generations before, what they were introduced to, what changed their wiring, what then changed ours. And and I don't think there's enough focus on that. I and like you said, maybe we don't need to know, maybe we don't need to go back there and find out, whatever. We need to deal with what's in front of us and move forward. I agree. And I think that that to me all fits nicely into that word evolution, because that's what that means, right? Is that we're moving differently in a direction because of something that happened. And so I really I just really like that, you know, it for me personally, I have this opportunity to because I was able to find out just soon enough that kind of my husband was a lot the same as as my son. And it gave me this perspective to say, wait a second, I've given this man that I love uh these accommodations for his behaviors or different ways of living for all of this time, and I've never questioned it. I've never questioned that this guy needs two naps a day or he doesn't eat this because of texture or what, you know, all of these levels of things. And then I finally can layer these on top of oh, this is just like my son. Well, I can give my son all the same accommodations that I can give my husband. I can, you know, then finding out about my my daughter's ADHD, which I thought it would just be that complete. We were actually going for a dyslexia uh diagnosis and walked away with autism ADHD dyslexia. But that really helped me recognize myself and thought, wait a second, here is this brilliant little kid who luckily we believe in. Not a lot of people believed in me when I was little, but this brilliant little kid who has all of these kind of same struggles or traits that weren't supported for me when I was little, and that pushed me into go getting my own brain scan and finding out about my own brain, which was so fascinating. I I just love it. But with that, I also had no idea that I had. ADHD where that it was present in any of my kind of systems, if you will. And it wasn't until maybe, you know, I sat with that information being a podcaster and social media person, I thought, oh, I'm gonna get right on and tell everybody about this, you know, what I found out. No, it took like five or six months for me to sort through the information and the feelings and the kind of rep what's the word I'm looking for? The feelings of how did I get through all of that? And how did nobody see that? And how do I now see all of it? And how do I, you know, yeah do these things for myself now? But we're really in this opportune time to resonate, to make sure that we are being in alignment with these things. I couldn't agree with you more on the you know, metaphysical kind of sentence, I guess, that you said, you know, about how we're just aligned to experience these experiences. And when we find out more and really, I guess, believe in ourselves and believe in our kids and see that hey, this you and I have these these same struggles. This is what I do to to help me out. What do you do? Maybe, you know, kind of bounce off each other to ask them what they're doing for themselves and giving them ideas. I think that kids today are in this, you know, super information phase that we weren't a part of. They have this opportunity to make changes for themselves that they can teach us to teach other people and and things. So I think it's really important that we listen to the youth.

Family Patterns And Self Discovery

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Yeah. And I mean, so much there to unpack. I'll try, I'll try to stay focused on what matters most coming from me because of the research I've done, is that I believe that ADHD is a matter of misalignment. And this comes from the top spiritually down to the moment. And what I mean by that is that most people that I've like worked with, when they slowed down their lives, meaning when they started actually realizing that a lot of the things that they were doing or building were their parents' wishes or society told them this is what you should do, this is the career you should have, when they were running after the money, the fame, the accolades, whatever, right? The validation. We all are starved for validation. We all have certain addictions in life because we want to be validated. So what I've noticed is that when we slow down and we actually, you know, quiet the noise. And this is mostly for adults with ADHD. With kids, they're obviously developing and they're still figuring out. It's not like they know what they should do in life. And they grow up in a fast world, right? With social media and they want to go to parties and music and have sex and you know, all the things that we do, it's like all this noise. And then eventually, as an adult, what I've seen is when we slow down, I see this with myself, the more aligned I become with who I am and and what I am here to do, the more I can focus, the less distracted I am. So again, I believe it's not a it's first of all, I know it's not a real medical disorder, meaning it's not something you're stuck with and your brain's broken and it's just wired that way and there's nothing you can do. Not at all. I I know that a certain amount of alignment and that alignment can be nutrition, that can be profession, that can be the relationship you're in. A lot of people that I talk to or consult with, they're in the wrong relationships. You know, they're stuck in a job they hate, they drink, they do other things because they're just numbing the pain of loneliness and all that stuff. And all of that, then they say, well, and I have ADHD. And it's like, no, the struggle of what you call ADHD is part of your life because all that mess is happening. So you can't just say that's ADHD. Because when people say, Oh, now I know what's wrong with me, well, that statement to me has is inherently also not a good statement. Because are you looking for something that's wrong with me? Like, you know, for you with you, right? Are you saying that now that you know some an expert told you what's wrong with you, now you can beat yourself up because now you have validation externally that you should beat yourself up because you're broken?

SPEAKER_01 26:31

It's like, no, no, no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

It's again back to the struggle, right? So if let's say you never diagnosed your daughter, son, yourself, whatever, and just simply asked, what are they struggling with? What's the struggle? And then let's go with the work on that, right? So you're not denying the struggle. It's more like it doesn't really matter what it's called. Sure, they say it's a medical shorthand and stuff. I just think as humans, we're so inclined to use it as an excuse or as self-pity or victimhood or even as an explanation to who we are. I think a lot of people unfortunately make uh ADHD their identity. So therefore, they then feel attacked. If, for example, I say something about ADHD that they don't like, they go like F you. What I get is that they feel attacked, like I attacked them, right? But it's not an identity, it shouldn't be an identity. And if it's just a, oh, look, I really struggle with X, Y, Z. What's wrong with that? We're human, we're gonna struggle with stuff and we're gonna struggle for years. Like I struggle for years in romantic relationships. That's one of my probably life, life journey and lessons, right? So it would be easy for me to say, like, Jesus, 56 years old, am I finally done struggling with this stuff? Shouldn't I have figured that out already? Says who? Like this might be a lifelong struggle, but I get to then use the tools I have and say, I struggle with this. So what do I do? Instead of labeling myself as a romantic relationship, impossible human, right? Or something, some label and no, that's what's wrong with me. Okay, that's not gonna make a difference. What do I do now? Where do I go? What tool can I use? And how can I find an environment that works for me? Yeah, that's it, you know, or create it.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Absolutely, and oftentimes you have to create it. And if you are, you know, an outside the bucks thinker, you oftentimes will create it for yourselves. There's multiple things, programs, scales I've created for myself and my family in so many ways. And yeah, yeah, I think it's it's just phenomenal. And and I agree that there's this level of lessons that we will learn throughout our lives. And, you know, as you were speaking, I I remember growing up, I was here all the struggles. I was an only child of divorced parents. I had to move around a lot, and it was really, it was really tricky. And my I had really bad anxiety to the point where I would over, you know, I'd have to get the bag so I wouldn't pass out and stuff, and I would just always be in this like heightened uh state. And so, but there was a point in my adulthood and possibly in my marriage, I've been so lucky and blessed going on 22 years of what is you know, my soul mate and best friend. And I think maybe even just the other half, like the male and female version of of who we were supposed to be in the world. And so it works out beautifully. But in that, I also lost anxiety. I don't know how else to say it. Those don't those things do not happen. I don't hyperventily, I don't need bags to breathe in, I don't have these panic attacks or moments, and it has been so many years that I have not struggled. I have to say there is power. You you've got to just understand how to embrace or you know, get the power in your mind to do it. Because it happened for me. I, you know, here I even wrote a children's book, Wiley the Worried Worm, a book about anxiety, you know, it was all about kind of me and my childhood and growing up, and then but I now have to say that I'm a believer that anxiety is over, right? I'm gonna add to your exists for me.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

There we go. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, and that that speaks to kind of why the movement started. That was the whole point. Is like for our son, it was over because after he got diagnosed, we're like, mm-mm, we're not doing this ride, we're doing it our own way. Yeah, and I love what you said because it's funny actually, I grew up in Switzerland, so my native tongue is German. So when I after I kept hearing anxiety, anxiety, I was like, what does it mean in German? Because when I left, I was 22 and my vocabulary vocabulary in German was limited, and then now I'm speaking English and there are all these new words, and I wanted to know, and I looked it up, and it just means fear.

unknown 31:27

Yeah.

Misalignment And Identity Myths

SPEAKER_03 31:27

And I was like, oh, that makes sense. And so, but now it's become this mental disorder label, you know, and it's like, yeah, that's fine. I see what we're doing, but ultimately, to your point, and I think you proved this, right? There are phases in life. Like you have anxiety until maybe you're with a partner that's understanding of it and you work through it, or you go to therapy, or you whatever, you outgrow it. And it is clearly from childhood. And I always say this to people look, again, I'm not a medical expert. I don't know exactly what happened to you, but just when you described your childhood, I'm like, that would be a child that would have anxiety or ADHD or childhood C, what is it? C PTSD, right? And and so all fine if we want to label it, but literally what it means, it was a child that felt unsafe.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

And that decided eventually if I check out into fantasy or distraction or whatever, I feel safer because then I'm not here where it's unsafe. I'm over there where it's kind of exciting and fantasy and yay, distracting from the real issue, right? And that's actually all we're dealing with. And so it's a great example. I'm glad you shared that because yeah, things can be rewired in the brain and into old age and things change and they're phases. And what matters is again, how can you function better in the world?

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yeah, I love it. And you know, I want to give my daughter a little bit of props and the credit because she's only 14. But I've loved the person that she is, is so different from me that it's almost like this exciting way to see another person be, you know, this strength and this like conviction and all of these things that I was too afraid to be when I was young. I didn't have those opportunities to have those, you know, that personality to be like that. And I'm always so proud when I look at her. But even just in this last year, I've seen her have some bad habits that she's seen the repercussions of and changed them right away. I've seen her watch me, you know, do an entire summer of just like manifesting and doing all these things in my garden with all these beautiful intentions and all of these magical things happen for me. And I've seen her watch that and reproduce it and do it for herself. And those are the beautiful, wonderful, magic moments when I know she will have the power in her life to be able to help others go through these things to help explain or to help support because she is already so powerful as a human being and already embraces her power, which is not very common for young, a young person.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

So that's amazing. That's beautiful. Yeah, I think it's I think it's gonna be more common, and it is more common. And the reason why I say that, I have this theory that, you know, first of all, I don't, I'm not a big fan of the word neurodivergent or neurodiverse because it it's kind of like saying water is wet, because we're all neurodiverse. Yes, there's no same brain, right? And what we're so trying to do is what it's what it's really code for is the broken ones, the the disordered ones. That's why I don't like it, because when somebody says like, oh, he's they usually go neurodiverse, you know, right? And it's not like it to me, it doesn't do anything. It's I get it, I understand it. I think we could use a new a new term, but yeah, the reason why I say that is because you know, if we look at normal or or neurotypical and neurodiverse, just those two terms, right? I think that today, if we count all the people with ADHD that have been diagnosed and the ones that have not been diagnosed, and that's again debatable in from my frame of mind, what is a diagnosis and is it really true? But let's just run with this. And then we take autism, Asperger's, that whole spectrum, right? And we count all the people. I bet you we would already be past 51%. So what's really normal, what's normal, what's neurotypical?

SPEAKER_00 35:49

It's a drier setting.

SPEAKER_03 35:50

Yeah. It doesn't exactly it doesn't matter anymore. What matters is if we have a such a huge amount of people that are struggling with the world we've created, would it make sense to change the world rather than try to change the people and blaming them for being mentally disordered? You know, when are we gonna wake up and say, oh, the world is too loud, it's too materialistic, it's too egotistical, it's too right? Whatever you and I know intrinsically, we know intuitively that uh this world has to change if we want more peace and more focus attention on the things that matter. So yeah, I think I think your daughter, my son, I think they're the new, you know, evolved souls that are just like, guys, this is bullshit. It's not working. Yeah, you know, they're like, why do you have to do this schoolwork? Like, dad, look at my look at this algebra. For what? Yeah, what is this for?

SPEAKER_00 36:50

What? You know, oh, I couldn't agree more. And she has these amazing skills like photography, where she sees nature and creatures and photographs them in a way that is like, who how did who are you anyways? Like this, and it's so much more than algebra, than yeah, the you know, the history of China's empires and right, the capital of Uzbekistan. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

That sounds good at a cocktail party, but are you really intelligent by just knowing that right? Spewing that back that information. I have a question for you. Just as an example, so with your daughter, what would you say were the other people would call symptoms? But what are the struggles? What did she struggle or does she struggle with most currently that was then called ADHD?

Anxiety As A Phase

SPEAKER_00 37:44

I would say that's a really great question because I never really saw ADHD as something that she struggled, that was a struggle for her.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

That's what I mean. Like, what would you say in and and and even be detailed, right? Because people go, oh, focus. I'm like, well, I need to know like what where, what, how, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Yeah, not focus at all. Gosh, that's really and and possibly during, I'm trying to think back of when she was being diagnosed, she was eight. It was during COVID, you know, we were like at a hotel in an environment she'd never been in, so she could have just been like curious to what's around her and things like that. Interesting that you mentioned that. I think our biggest struggle today, whether it has to do with ADHD or not, is emotions being labeled the correct way, being shown the correct way, expressed the correct way. I think that's our biggest struggle.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

Okay. So would it be like she's upset but not aware that she's upset and she calls it confused, or give me an example?

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Or just constantly angry, or just like would is okay with maybe being a little rough with with words and with people, as I'm not, I'm very soft spoken, and so it's uh it's a little different for me, but my husband are very much alike.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

So can you can you give me an example of like how because it's really fascinating? Yeah, because that's the kind of work I do with clients, right? We get into like give me an example of if you're if you're open to this.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Um, this is just to give an example would be fear of disappointment. She, if something happens and she's embarrassed, it's instant, like she will stall storm out of the room, be mad at everyone around her when the thing really was just that internal, you know, embarrassment or or something that occurred.

Rethinking Neurodiversity And School

SPEAKER_03 40:00

Yeah. So I would say that's great. Thanks for sharing that. Again, I'm not a psychologist. I think I've done enough therapy myself and done enough research that I can say, you know, again, all these things go back to childhood somewhere, right? Something happened. It doesn't have to be one event, doesn't have to be one uh noticeable event. It could be a hundred very hardly to notice kind of background events, but doesn't matter. I think what you're you and I are seeing, and I always use this example, if aliens came to to this planet, which they might have already, but let's say an alien comes to your house and they don't know what's up. They're just watching you and your daughter, and they would be asked, the daughter, what is what does she do? Right? They would be like, Oh, she made kind of a funny face and crossed her arms and ran out of the room, right? That would be what's happening. But then us humans, we've given this meaning. Well, that means and she's not in this label and whatever. So, in other words, it's almost like a reaction that your daughter has to call it, we could call it fragile self-image, for example, or uh sensitive to criticism or whatever that is, right? They're even making that a disorder. I heard about it. There is something rejection sensitivity disorder. I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, what human is not most humans are sensitive to rejection. The ones that are not are putting up a wall that they're like, you know. But so anyway, my point is that there's some version of that, and that's all in you can do therapy, as you know, obviously. I'm just sharing for the listeners. Like, there's therapy, there's interactions, there's changes in in behavior as parents, there's all sorts of stuff that can be done before we would even consider I before I would consider that a disorder. Because then we're saying something in your brain is wired off the the wrong way, such that you are doing that. It's more like your brain is currently wired the way that we're we're experiencing your behavior as, but that can be changed. And there's nothing wrong with you. And what could we do as a team to soften the blow? And so that's one thing. The other one, I love that you said harsh words. Can you give me an example? Because I'm I love that one.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Um name calling isn't something we've ever been doing, but something she's comfortable doing.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

You mean like derogatory name calling?

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

Okay. I mean, that's obviously couldn't be a limit. Like, I get that.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Yeah, you know, probably.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

I was thinking you're talking more about like being more direct and calling bullshit on bullshit, or like, you know, really that too.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

That is uh definitely an as like a skill she has that I I do not know.

SPEAKER_03 42:49

My son does too.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Yeah. And I think fascinating.

Emotional Triggers And Rejection

SPEAKER_03 42:52

And the important thing to know here is again, this is for our listeners, because you've done a lot of research yourself. So I'm preaching to the choir for most of it, but there's there's a there's the extreme, right? Because they're they're young, they're they're still developing, but so they're they're doing what I call the right thing. They're cutting through the bullshit of the world. We've created such a sincere world, it's so nicey, nicey politically correct. Yet underneath it all, there's assholism and jerkism and all the stuff that like these kids can feel and the hypocrisy, right? So they just cut through it. And the way they know how to do it is because in popular media, they're shown that you just say asshole, bullshit, liar, whatever. So eventually they'll learn. Hopefully, they won't learn it in a very people-pleasing kind of way, but they learn to deliver it with a little bit more tact. But I think this world, these systems need to come down. We need to change it all. And unfortunately, they're not going to come down from the politically correct, people pleasing, nice talking, sincere people. They're going to be torn down by your daughter, my son, who are. Like, guys, stop it. This is bullshit. Excuse my French. It's not even French, but same language. You know, this gotta change. This gotta change. And stop it, please. And so, so right now I think we're seeing a lot of rebellious kids not knowing, because of where they're at in their phase of development, not knowing how to let us know that what's in front of them is not working, you know? And if we listen to our kids as parents from that point of view, their Gabor Mate, who I had the pleasure of interviewing, said to me, kids that are not fully developed yet, or young kids that can't really use the vocabulary, what they do is they act out, meaning that's what that's they're letting us know. Yeah. So when we say, oh, this kid's acting out, it's like, yeah, it's like charades. They're letting us know something's not working for them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Exactly. Nope. I am a big proponent of 100%. And I find that, you know, I I kind of feel lucky, I suppose, that I have the opportunity to look at my child in a way that people didn't look at me, to give them that value of worth by just being them, to tell them, hey, you don't need to mow the lawn to do the dishes to be valuable or worthy. You are, because you are that person standing there, that is where your value and worth comes from. You decide through your decisions and how you're going to create your reputation through life, but you don't earn worthiness, you don't earn value. You are those things within yourself, intrinsically, like you had mentioned before. You you are those things. And I think that we've got there's a lot of parents don't tell their children that they don't tell themselves that, they don't have that in themselves to to know, maybe. So I'm making an extra special purpose that I tell both my daughter, her friends, your value is because you are here in this world, like you are worth it. You don't need to do all these extra things to earn those things. And I see that like light bulb where they're like, wow, really? That's seriously? Are you and I just try to remind them a lot. So it's a big that's beautiful, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

And your kids are very fortunate. And you know, again, I'm not I don't believe in fortunate or less fortunate. I believe in you're you're at where you're at, and you can exactly, you know, but they're I hope they're grateful and they will pretty much know that they were fortunate in the future when they look back and go, wow, my my mom and dad were pretty freaking awesome. And are we perfect? No, no, but that brings me to an interesting point, and I love that you talked about value and worthiness, comes up a lot in my coaching with people. And one of the things I ask parents early on, and I'll tell you what I found, is this question of like, how do you love your kids? Tell me, how do you love them? And they go, I love I love them so much unconditionally. I go, like, great, but how do you do it? When when's when do you do it? How do you do it? And then they mention all sorts of like, well, I care about them, I I, you know, actions, right? And one thing I've learned is that, and because I'm a certified conscious parenting coach, and one of the things I took away from that, because at the time I wasn't as focused as I could have been, so I probably need to redo it. Uh, and and they recommend that. But the main thing I took away from is that love is a very simple thing. It's you accept someone for who they are and who they're not in any given moment.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:41

And everything else is something else, like care. Even in a romantic relationship, it's romance, it's sex, it's intimacy. They're different things. But true love, and and from a parent's point of view, how you love your children is when something happens that's called quote unquote negative, right? That you didn't like, that you don't like, something that violated some kind of family value or some agreement or boundary or integrity issue. That's the moment, the way you react, the very first reaction you have to that moment is where the love can be at or not. And there's no right or wrong. There's either righteousness or love, and they cannot coexist in any given moment. And so in that moment, when we react like a typical parent, hand-me-down parenting kind of behavior, which is like, I can't believe you did this, or why did you do this, or you know, this is gonna blah, blah, blah. That energy is not love. Yeah, it's fear, it's fear-based. And, you know, is it easy to do that? No. Am I perfect? No, absolutely not. Just in theory, I know that any moment I've caught myself by from reacting like that, and just take a deep breath and go, like, let me check in with them. How are you feeling? You know, and sometimes my son would just start crying. He's like, I feel so bad and I'm so sorry. And I'd be like, hey, it's totally fine. Like, we've all made mistakes. Guess what I did when I was your age, right? And that alone, that's loving your child. Has nothing to do with putting him in a good college or always physically being there, even though that's great too. But if we're not emotionally available and we're not willing to, you know, be loving in those stressful moments, then there's gonna be issues with the children. They're gonna have their own mental health issues because they're gonna feel worthless or they're gonna feel ashamed or whatever. And look, we can't trauma proof anyone. So all I'm saying is when we can bring that level of love to our children, it's a it's a whole different upbringing, you know?

Love In Hard Moments

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Yeah. No, I I love that. And it's so that's so interesting you said that too, because we had a situation the uh like last week or something where something went wrong and there was a you know person went down to the room, decided there weren't gonna be part of anything else. And so I went down and just laid with them for a while. And later on, when we were talking to another friend, and the friend was like, Well, how do I help when this person's does this and this and this? And my husband said, Well, I guess you're gonna have to remember and realize that they're so she's so used to being comforted right away. Like, that's what she needs. She needs instant comfort because that's what her mother has always given her. That's what she's looking for. She, so it's like, you know, being in a fight and then turning around and saying, Can I have a hug? And the person you're fighting with is like, No, what? No, you know, what you really need is that, and that is exactly what's happening. And so I love that you brought that up because it is so true. And I have this other very fascinating thing that I just is always, especially in this conversation, has been on my mind. And I think that it's something that maybe we just don't think about or consider. You know, our childhood is from what zero to 16, 18, 25, if you want to be legit like brain development. That is not that many years as the rest of the time that we are alive and are affected by our childhood, the very short time that we existed and had those things. I think that is just such a fascinating thing.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

Yeah, it is. You're right. And it's, you know, they say the first seven years is where everything gets programmed and you know, or even earlier, but like you you have these phases and then they move out of the house, and now they're an adult, and at the same time, the brain isn't developed till they're 25. Some of them have kids at 21, right? Like it's mind blowing. And I always say, like, yes. And can you imagine that we also give kids a schedule two drug at the age of five or six years old when their brain isn't even developed? So Russian roulette is the right term here.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Yeah.

Brain Development And Medication Risks

SPEAKER_03 52:12

And talking about medication, that I feel like we're really messing with these brains already. They, like you said, they have childhood trauma, they're trying to figure things out, they have phases in life. There's puberty, there's peer pressure, right? There's expectation, anxiety about the future, and all that stuff is piled on top of it. And then we add a substance that we don't know. Nobody knows how that particular brain is going to react over time with this suction. You can only guess. And I'm not putting down medication. Like I said, for emergencies, I think they're great, but ADHD is not an emergency. Maybe 3% of them are. And yes, do medication for a year, see how it goes, great. But we're just playing Russian roulette. And here's an interesting thing I want to let parents know too. Over time, I came up with this theory that, you know, the giving a child medication, like when they say, oh, you know, half of the kids that take medications, there's some side effects, the other half are fine. So you think, oh, it's a 50-50 Russian roulette, I'll take my chances. But it's actually more like because we don't know our children's brain, we don't know what's going to happen. It's a bit more like playing Russian roulette with like three bullets. Yeah, going like, I don't know, you know, I would never do that. Yeah. If I had to do it with one bullet and I'm forced at gunpoint, I'd probably do it. But with three, I'd just be like, just shoot me. I don't, it's not gonna, you know, the odds are horrible. But parents do it because they think, oh, well, I'm sure my child is fine. I mean, my child's not gonna be having issues. And so, yeah, good luck. But it is a tough one because, like you said, the brain development phases are so intense and so significant up till 25 and even beyond. But we really have to, I believe, safeguard our children as long as we can from these stressors, right? Because even medication is a stressor, but remove as much stress from all areas of life that we can. That's kind of our job, a job as parents, you know?

Resources, Contact, And Closing

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Yeah. And how exciting that we can, hopefully, everyone listening today, whenever you're listening, you know, if these things are concerns that you do have in your family, please reach out and let us know how you, you know, what you need support with, how we can and be of more support to you and your family, to your child or yourself. If you feel like you're out of control and you can't, you know, kind of wind down. Let's go over some strategies to help you figure out how to overcome. Because I think there's something so wonderful to be said about anecdotal experiences, and that is if we can pile enough of them up, it basically becomes an expert. So I think that you know, it really goes to show, like, and especially for you know, hope my listeners. I know you guys trust me, you trust the information I'm bringing, and you trust that when I tell you a story, like I've got over anxiety, you know that that is real and that's really authentic. And if you want to learn some tricks that I did for myself, please reach out to me. We can go over some of those things. Maybe we'll do an episode of just tricks to help get those brains under control.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

Yep. I love that. That's really great. And yeah, I would encourage anyone to reach out to you, or if they want to reach out to myself or do more research online. You know, there's you have to trust your own resonance. Like if something doesn't feel right, that that is information. You know, maybe it doesn't feel right now. You wait for six months. Maybe you need to do more research, but always, you know, sit with it, sit with the information. Don't make any quick decisions because you know, it could affect your child for the rest of their lives, right?

SPEAKER_00 56:02

Absolutely. ADHD is over.com. Is that right? Where you can go and get information. Um social medias, where can we find you on social media?

SPEAKER_03 56:14

Yeah, we're on on X, on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. Also ADHD is over. It should be an easy find, or on adhd isover.com. All the information's there. The book is really cool because I wrote a short book. I wanted it to be short, but there's so many things in the book that I back up with science and studies that most people think that they know already the truth. And I have the half-truths there. Meaning, yes, some things are true out there, but but read the whole article, read the whole study. Um, and I break it down for parents because who has time to read all that stuff, right?

SPEAKER_00 56:49

Yeah. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 56:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

Yeah, that's helpful. I appreciate that so much. This has been such a wonderful conversation. This is doubled the amount of time that I usually go. But I can talk about the brains and behavior and family and parenting all day long every day.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

Yeah, yeah. You know, me too.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

When you get into this um ability to help people see how they can help themselves, I think it's really special work. So thank you so much for what you're doing and the work you're providing for people.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

Thank you, Sarah. Thanks for having me on. And also to you, I acknowledge you for making a difference in people's lives.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

I appreciate that so much. And to leave everybody with kind of a funny visual story. When my daughter and her friends, they like to look at the graffiti, you know, when we're driving by and stuff. And one of the attackers who every time we get on the freeway, it says ADH. And so we always laugh that he got too distracted and forgot to put on the D at the end. That is just I just thought that was kind of funny to end that with that. That was funny. Kind of cute.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Roman. And I really look forward to staying in touch. And please let me know if you have anything in the future that I can have you back on for and just share. I'll share all of the things on all my socials too. So great.

SPEAKER_03 58:15

Same here. Yeah. Thanks, Sarah.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

Appreciate you so much.