Episode 363- What Down Syndrome Parenting Taught A Trauma Surgeon with Sean Adelman

A diagnosis can feel like it writes your child’s future in ink, but that story is usually wrong. We sit down with Sean Adelman, an orthopedic trauma surgeon and dad to a daughter with Down syndrome, to talk about what he’s learned outside the textbooks: people are not their worst day, and kids are not their labels. The big throughline is raising expectations, not as pressure, but as possibility.

We get personal about how exposure changes fear into understanding. I share how my family first connected with Down syndrome, then how my son’s autism diagnosis forced me to rethink communication, parenting goals, and what “support” really means. Sean adds the perspective of a clinician who sees hard moments for a living, and how that can warp the way professionals and families imagine disability, neurodiversity, and the full spectrum of the human condition.

From there we zoom out to the everyday skills that make inclusion real: being a safe landing for your kids, modeling how to handle failure, and choosing kindness in small moments that tell people, “I see you.” We also break down acceptance vs inclusion, the dignity of risk, and why supported employment and inclusive hiring are not charity but smart business that improves morale and reduces turnover. We end with practical next steps, including ways to volunteer with Special Olympics, Best Buddies, or your local ARC, plus resources at raiseexpectations.com.

If this conversation shifts your thinking even a little, please subscribe, share it with another parent or educator, and leave a review so more families can find it. What does “raising expectations” look like in your home or workplace?

Transcript

Welcome And Name Stories

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hi, thanks for joining the SG Child show today. And Sean, of course, I didn't even ask you, is it Edelman, Adelman? As long as I can pronounce Sean correctly, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:16

It's the little things, right?

SPEAKER_01 0:17

The little things. You know, I always tell people when they put that extra H on my name that I'm just too extra to begin with. And I never needed it. So just don't give me the extra Sarah H, please.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

That's good. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Yeah, I always make sure I and I'm you too probably like spell it out everywhere, you know, the Starbucks ladies, everything you gotta spell it out for them just in case you don't want extra letters, no thanks. Well, we're excited to have you here today, and wonderful conversation I know we're going to be having. So without giving too much away, please introduce yourself. Let our guests know what you are, or our viewers or listeners rather, what where you're from and a little bit about yourself, and then we'll get into this conversation. How fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah. Well, my name is Sean Adelman. I'm a dad who happens to also be an orthopedic surgeon. We lived all over. I was a military brat, so I grew up all over the world, you know, settled in Texas. And then, you know, we've been in Seattle now for 16 years, which is the longest we've been anywhere. So I've been able to raise my kids. I have three adult children who, you know, make my world what it is. My middle daughter has Down syndrome. And so she is kind of what opened my eyes to differences and inclusion and those things that we can talk about for our conversation about growing up in different places and not appreciating people's differences on an organic level until you actually are faced with those challenges. And I wouldn't even say challenges, just, you know, the the spectrum of the human condition is not always evident to those of us who who tend to sort of grow up in a box. And so having lived in multiple different areas and being a part of the medical community, it's wonderful. And my my wife, who we can talk about too, is you know, she's amazing. I'm I'm so fortunate at so many levels, but she she works with the Lend

Sean’s Life And Family

SPEAKER_00 2:05

here in in Seattle, which is the neurodiverse group for diagnosing and and she's very tied into the autism community here as well. So it's it'll it'll though I think there'll be some fun organic things that we get to talk about. Although I can't speak for her because she knows way more than I do. I'm I'm just the dad who happens to also be a trauma surgeon, who happens to also be on a podcast with a lovely person like you. So this is exciting.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I love that. Well, now you get to make an introduction for me too, to to your wife.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

So yeah, no, I think that'd be fun, actually.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Oh, this is gonna be a great conversation. And you know, I I know some of my listeners may have know some of these things about me, but you don't, so I get to tell you so that you know you kind of know how relative or how we relate so well. And number one, I'm a military brat, only child of a major general retired, so yeah, I I get that. We didn't move around as much because he was the commander of the Reno Air National Guard, and so we stayed mostly in in the guard, you know, area, but he traveled all over the place, and I stayed home with house sitters, lovely. It was interesting, but moving into my adult life and into with being with my husband now for 22 years, when I first met him, he had a sister with Down syndrome, so that was my first kind of personal experience. Yes, I loved people in the world just generally who you know are just so sweet and kind and generally the community of is that way, and so but I hadn't been able to first-handedly experience with an individual that type of a relationship until I, you know, got to to be with my uh sister-in-law, and she uh passed away in 2013, bless her heart. Uh but what an amazing experience, because not only did that, you know, give me a little bit of little bit, I'm gonna say this baby bit of experience with with an individual with more support needs or you know, a little bit different outlook on things. But then when it came to when my son was diagnosed in 2010 at only 14 months and autism, and I had no idea like what in the world, you know. But my husband still had this heart of this uh love for special needs and just for this, I like the how you said human condition, and it gave me kind of that bravery and encourage to learn more and to be able to not fall into what I think um just we do generally as people and be fearful of things that we we don't know much about. So yeah, so that was that's really was now that I have this, you know, looking back at the situation, being able to appreciate just like you said, so much in a different way, so much more.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yeah. Yeah, no, I I I certainly feel that, and and we can talk about that a little bit, but you know, part of my training in medicine, I really was to be frank, was a bit of a disadvantage. You know, I was a resident, you know, when when Devin was born, and you know, all I knew were the bad

Autism And Finding Courage

SPEAKER_00 5:40

things and I shouldn't say bad things, all the medical diagnosis, all the things you treat, and all those other things, and and not having some organic relationship to people made me just sort of not understand what I was getting to. And some in some ways, if I had known anything, it probably would have been mentally a little bit easier on us in in that way. But it's it's also sort of lit the fire as it were to want to make sure that the the world sees people in a different way. Because I in in what I do for a living, people have perceptions about what reality is that are based on textbooks and and and you know, we tend to see people at their worst, frankly. And most of us don't live our entire lives at our worst. And so when when that's your perspective, it really changes how you see things. And that's been a big mission of mine at work. And and it's hard because I I took a a little bit of a hate as, you know, after the pandemic, my my creative deuces, as it were, really took a major hit. And it took me a while to sort of get my myself back on the wagon of of wanting to sort of be a voice. And and I know as as you can talk, as as being a parent is not the same thing as being a self-advocate, and I want to make that very clear. The words that I share as a parent from my perspective and what I see, um I will never attempt to speak on behalf of my daughter or my family or others. And so I try to make those things clear. And one of the things that got me back on the wagon, honestly, was you know, some of the things I I experienced at work as as a surgeon, you know, families that were making choices based on very little data. And unfortunately, I'm sure you've seen a lot of the social media stuff recently. And I've had to I've had experience that personally, professionally. And so, you know, part of my mission is is, you know, to make sure people understand the human condition. And as a new parent, as you know better than anybody, you know, you never know what you're gonna get. And and you have to have an expectation of of everything for your child, no matter what they are. And if your has child has a diagnosis, that's one thing. But even if your child doesn't have a diagnosis, you never know. And so that's our whole thing is raising people's expectations. And you know, we can talk about that a little bit, but when Devin was born, you know, the world was in a very different space. You know, most people, Down syndrome, you know, not not I shouldn't say most, the statistics are up, but you know, institutionals, you know, the average life expectancy for somebody with Down syndrome when Devin was born was in their 30s. And Devin is gonna turn 30 this year. And, you know, she's a health advocate who's training for a marathon in in Hawaii this year. Wow. She's got a job, she's got an apartment, she's got a fiance, you know, that that wasn't in the in the textbooks, you know, when she was born.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Oh, I love that. That wasn't the same experience for us, but I think that that's amazing, amazing to to be able to see that fruition and just watch with a a love, a different type of love. I don't even know how to like I love my children all of the same, but I definitely there's these different levels of understanding, maybe that you have for your child's different needs. And and I I completely get that. I, you know, on one end, don't see that I think that DJ might be a forever child at the same time, he's only 16. Who am I to say? What happens, you know, I I can't limit his skill level, I can't limit his potential, and I I wouldn't want to, but I really am hopeful, you know, for for something similar to to that, that he would be able to enjoy those types of uh experiences, if that's what's meant for him. And and you know, if

Raising Expectations After A Diagnosis

SPEAKER_01 9:40

it's the other way, then I'll ex I'll enjoy his you know company as long as as I need to and and can as well. So but I think that in this you know lifetime uh we're really getting into a new era, especially I'm really hoping for new parents and you know, the the younger generation that we can teach them these things because unfortunately, this wasn't the way parenting was looked at or taught or explained how to be. And this is exactly what we need to be doing, is saying to these younger generations, and you know, just even parents of early uh children or children in their early ages now is that uh, you know, um understanding who they are as a human is so important and shouldn't get in the way of society's ego ideas of what your parenting experience should be doing.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Right. And I think you know, we all have these preconceived notions about success and value, and you know, I've definitely had to reframe my own personal version of success and value. And, you know, we talk about that with support employment. Everybody has value, and you know, seeking that value and understanding what that value is is an important part of, once again, the human condition. You know, everybody has a role to play, and and you know, submitting somebody to your notions of what that role is is, you know, not okay. And and we don't really feel those things. And you your son is gonna be a part of your life in ways that you never envisioned, and that's how it should be, and you can't sort of put constraints on those things. And, you know, Devin, you know, we're reminded constantly that there are limits to what she can do, and but there are also limits to what my other kids can do, both emotionally and physically. And, you know, as as a parent, you know, you can appreciate, you know, we we always joke we didn't learn anything from our kids. You know, one kid to the next was so different that we had to rewrite the book, you know. It's like parent parent one on one starts three times in our family because we didn't learn a thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

You know, our oldest, unfortunately, was our experiment, and hopefully we didn't screw up too badly.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yeah, I get that. I have a 26-year-old over there.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah, exactly. And you know, and and we have to have those things, and and I'm sure you can appreciate this growing up in a military household. You know, I I you know, you follow the rules, you do this, you know. We're very, you know, our our life was a box of rules. And we followed those rules and didn't work very well. And we and we learned that very quickly. Unfortunately, once again, my wife is amazing, and we were able to take a step back and you know, and you know, learn how to not engage and have an open platform and make sure that our our kids that we love them. And and my my definition definition of success now is you know, my kids are good people. Like they're they're you know, none of my kids went into medicine. I'm I'm the first person in my family who got a postgraduate degree. So for me, this was like all new stuff. And none of my kids fall out on my footsteps, and and that's great because they're all good people. Um, and and my definition of success, I always I tell this story because it's it just it's wonderful for me, is that you know, a few weeks ago, my adult children went to a concert with me, you know, we we got drinks because they're adults, you know, we had dinner and we went to a concert and had a great time. And so my definition definition of success is my adult children actually want to hang out with me. Yeah, like what a beautiful thing that is. And I I don't I I feel very blessed to have that in my life. There's just no other way to say it. Yeah. Um, and and those things only occur if you open the the playbook to possibilities. If you have a constrained vision of what those relationships are, you know, we can talk about, and it's more salient for for those of us who who deal with people who have different challenges, is you know, this whole idea of family that we have in this country, which is centered around, you know, when I was, you know, in high school, the definition of success is, you know, your kids move out of the house at high school and you don't see them again, they're not moving back in. And you go to other, you know, other cultures, other countries, and the extended family is a really important part of it. You know, we went to Vietnam as a as a surgeon and as a family, and and their extended family uh approach is is so different that they they don't have institutions. They just the family just bonds around whatever individuals' needs are, and that's just how it is. You know, so you have multi-generational living, and you know, our adult kids are currently in the house with us, you know, going to grad school and doing stuff. And I and I I love having them here. I don't have any, you know, impetus to, you know, get them out of the house. Of course they are at some point just because they want to lead their lives, but it's it's on their terms and not some preconceived notion about what family means to us. And and frankly, you know, Devin moved out early this year. And we still obviously stay close with her, and and she comes over for dinner several times a week and you know, all that stuff. But it left kind of a hole, you know, my wife and I are still recovering from. She was this, you know, this beacon of positive energy. You know, her room was littered with little stickies of inspirational things. And I I'll be the first to tell you uh, I'm I'm really hard on myself. I I I don't look at myself in a very positive way. The person I see in the mirror isn't always the person I like to see in the mirror. And and I I look at

Redefining Success And Family Norms

SPEAKER_00 15:25

how I work both as a father and as a surgeon very critically. And having Devon grade that in in my world was a huge thing, you know, seeing her being inspired by those little daily things, you know, made my approach to how I live my life very differently. You know, when I was, you know, I'm sure growing up uh the daughter of a general, you know, you have these aspirational things of, you know, I'm gonna run a hot, you know, I didn't know anything about medicine or anything. So I was like, I'm gonna be CEO of a hospital, I'm gonna be surgeon general, or you know, I had these big things, which is which is wonderful, but but I fully appreciate now having these wonderful people in my life that it's the daily things, it's those interactions, it's those moments where you see somebody in the hospital or or at Kroger's or wherever it happens to be, and you can make that interaction positive. You can make somebody's day better just in that moment. You know, if somebody's sleeping, sweeping the floor in the operating room, they're just as important as the nurses and everybody else, and sort of make sure that they are aware that their role in life is meaningful, every little interaction throughout the day makes a difference. And those are the things that I focus on more now than, you know, the big picture things. And I don't want to minimize those things. I think those things are very important. But having somebody in my life that is able to hold on to those individual interactions and make me appreciate that those little interactions are just as important. I should put just as much energy into those things as I do in my my brain thinking about what's next has made my days better, you know. You know, I think about those things and focusing on that one patient that I helped instead of, you know, my career as a surgeon, you know, like where am I now?

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know that uh I have a lot, I have a lot going on. Oh my gosh, there's so many, so many comments I I wanted to catch on, but I really, really love the idea of first making a connection with your kids that will give you a friendship later in life. That is what your goal should be when you're setting up a relationship with them when they're little. How is this gonna look in 10, 15 years? Are they gonna want to talk to me? Am I gonna have yelled the niceness out of them and they're never gonna want to talk to me again? Like obviously, there's different aspects to everybody's things, but I think that it's so important that something kind of like you said, being a stepmom, I didn't really wasn't like I had full parenting control or even parenting knowledge of what I was doing, stepping into someone else's life, um, and vice versa, and theirs in mine, but I did the best that I could. But I certainly learned from that relationship and going into the relationship with my biological children, especially when the next one had super high communication needs that had to be tended to. Um, I definitely learned that I needed to be a different type of parent. That kind of same thing I needed to step back and really look at the way that I was communicating and that I was offering him the environment to be able to understand communication. It just it kind of like does two things, throws a wrench in it, but then all these colors flash everywhere, and you're like, oh my gosh, I can see things a little differently now, you know? Um so it kind of happened that way. And then I love love what you said about appreciating kind of the the people who move go through life and maybe the you know, the person sweeping the floor, for example. When I'm at the hospital visiting someone, I thank the person who changes the garbage, the gender, anything. I will thank them. I will walk up, I will go out of my way to go down the hallway to thank them. Like I totally agree. And I think that in society, there's not enough of sh of letting everyone around you, especially the people that don't get thanked enough, that they you're thankful and that you're you see them and that they are valuable and that they do just being there is wonderful to to have them there to share their worth. And I I don't think that our you know, we weren't really taught how to do that. And so that's been like a self-taught kind of thing to do, but I surely appreciate it. And it makes me feel so good when you can see the just the light up, you know, and and the individuals when they do feel seen for who they are, just and you don't know them, they don't know you, it's not something you owe, but it's just something you yeah, I I love to do. I'm really compassionate about that, the kind of things.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Taking advantage of those moments, making the most of the moments that you have. I think it's it's easy to sort of walk through life with your head thinking about other things. And and I'm I'm I'm certainly one of the people who is is guilty of that on more than one occasion. But having people in your life that force you to sort of focus on the here and now on occasion is really important. And you know, you mentioned parenting, and you know, for us personally, it's that acceptance that there have to be rules. And and and people talk about like you can't be your kids' friends when they're teenagers because that's not your role. But you also have to be non-judgmental. Like your kids have to know that it's safe, like they can screw up and you'll still love them and it'll be safe. That doesn't mean there are consequences to what happens, but they're safe. You know, that's the whole mantra that we live with is raising expectations. Your job as a parent and as a human is not to sort of set barriers to those around you, whether they are friends, family, whatever. You're uh particularly for your children, though. Your job is to sort of allow them possibilities and accept that failures are gonna happen and that your role is to provide a safe landing. Your role is not to set the bar. Every bar is gonna be different, and there are bars that are gonna look different. They're not that's not even the same bar. You can't even judge them based on level. But your job is to uh to provide a safe landing. And that's such a it seems like such an obvious thing, but we tend to be so sort of I don't want to say judgmental, but but humans are tribal. We just are. And we have notions of what is and what isn't. And and as a parent, you just have to completely step back from that and appreciate, you know, what what you can or can't do and what your children are are capable of doing. And and your child is gonna do things that, you know, you never knew they were gonna do. And and and if you don't allow them that opportunity, you'll you'll never know. You know, and in the disability community, you know, and you you know this language too, you know, call it the dignity failure. You know, if you're not given the opportunity to fail, you will never succeed. And and and it's it's obvious when we talk about those those comments we like like basketball, you know, you you only make the number of shots that you take, and if you don't take those shots, but but then disability community, if you're never given the ball, then you can't make the shot. You have to be given the ball, you have to be given the opportunity, and you have to be allowed to fail, you know, and and people don't understand the difference of acceptance and inclusion. You know, having somebody watching you play at the game is not the same thing as passing the ball, knowing that they may double dribble or they may miss the shot. Those are not the same thing. And and it is a two-way street, you know, what you gain may not be always the same as what you give, but there is a two-way street. And and, you know, we talk about this with support employment, and I think

Kindness In Small Daily Moments

SPEAKER_00 23:20

that's just the most salient thing to a lot of the people that that live in our world right now with transition and that sort of stuff is you know, the Walgreens CEO many years ago had a child with disability, and they did this study looking at inclusive employment, and having somebody with either intellectual or developmental disability on your team improves morale, decreases turnover, improves predictivity. And so having people who with different abilities is a great business decision. It improves the human condition, improves the workforce. But as soon as you start looking at it through the scope of, I don't think they can do this job, it changes the equation. And it comes back to that, you know, discussion we had earlier about value. You don't always know what that person's value is unless you give them an opportunity. And once you give them an opportunity, the the world opens up to possibilities that you never knew existed. And that sounds like you know, fantasy, yeah, but it is absolutely true. And convincing people that is such a challenge. You know, my part of the reason I left my previous hospital was because, you know, I could not get them to understand how important support employment was for the organization. They really had a hole that they could not fill, but they were unwilling to look past this barrier. And it's hard to understand that from not just a human perspective, but it's a business. I mean, it's good business. You can say what you want about what you believe, but you know, it's a good business decision as well. Anyway, I rambled a lot.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

So please No, I love, I think that that is so so important and so true because there's so much in work transition that needs to be talked about and needs to be the topic of discussions with employers along the way. And let's be honest, if we have five individuals and we invite four to the table, we are losing out on an entire person's brain, ideas, you know, things that they could show us, things that like it's why? Why would we want to leave ideas and things out, like bring everything to the table? Wouldn't that be best?

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah, absolutely. And and I think in all segments, you know, we tend to, especially in the professional world, we tend to sort of develop this narcissism of, you know, I think this way, this time, right. And and that's why for me personally, like when I finish a surgery, I ask everybody in the room, scrub tech to nurse to anesthesia, are there things we could have done differently? If somebody says something during the case, I always listen to them because I learn every time I do something. And that's the same way in the germ force. That's and and people have a perspective that you will never have unless you open yourself to those possibilities. And I think that goes from education to work to professional life. And those are just values that we want to propagate so people can appreciate that listening to others doesn't devalue your own status. You know, we have this thing that if I don't know all the answers, I have to be right. Otherwise, I'm not as good as I think I am. And that's really not the case. And that that goes for parenting too. You know, as a parent, you have to you have to be vulnerable. Your kids have to see you fail because it's gonna happen to them. And they need to see how you cope with that failure. How how you cope with failure is a lesson that your kids will see. And if your kids never see you cope with failure, if your kids never see us, my wife and I, having a conversation or going through stuff, when they hit those things in their lives, they will feel like they're even more of a failure because my mom and dad never went through this, or I never saw, and and so devaluing yourself based on what you see also affects your family. And so, you know, I it's hard, you know, I don't want to be any less. My I strive to be better every day, and sometimes I don't succeed. And and I've I've come to the conclusion that it's important that my kids know where I failed and what I'm improving on. You know, when I have a really bad day at work and I'm not the best person, you know, it sometimes takes me a minute to check myself, but I always have to let my kids and my wife know I'm not mad at you. Here's what's going on in my mind. I need to do better, so that they understand that these are parts of the human condition because otherwise, you know, everybody just gets defensive. Anyway, that's once again.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

I I love clear, I think there's nothing more important than just clear communication. And, you know, as my teenagers are my youngest is 14. It's one thing that I admire so much about her. Oh my goodness. And she's like my best friend from the 90s. She likes loves good music and just a great kid, but her ability to just say exactly how she's feeling, and maybe some will call it autism and bluntness, right? No, but I am have taught her since day one clear, constant communication. I want to know how you're feeling, all of the things, if there's an emotions

Inclusion That Allows Failure

SPEAKER_01 28:35

that you aren't understanding while you're having these feelings, we could talk about what those look like and how to act or react to those, how to, you know, what they might look like physically or what they might feel like emotionally. Like in your body, what does it feel like? And I really like to just dive deep into all of those things with her. And I just see this like confident, you know, uh yes, she's a teenager and hormonal and emotional and all of the things that happens with teenage girls, but she's so clearly she's so upfront. It's it's not something, it's not like I have to pull the information out of her. And I've had those relationships, and those are tricky with kiddos who don't open up, and you just never, never find out the realness of anything. But this time around, is it's just been like sometimes you're like, oh, did you say that? Other times I'm like, Yes, okay, thank you. Good job. I don't care that that was the way you said it. Maybe let's work on that. It's not the way you say it next time. But you know, the fact that it's getting out and it's not ever being like stuffed in is just so amazing. Because you know, you and I couldn't have never done that. Ever. Yeah, never. I still wouldn't do that to this day. And so, like I say, admiration, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:01

And growth. I think there are things, you know, as you oops, my table's going up and down.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

That's awesome. I wish I had that.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Um, you know, we we learn from our kids, you know. My my youngest just finished uh he he's a mechanical engineer, but to your point, is he's so willing to do things that I'm not. And so it he pushes my boundaries and forces me to grow. And, you know, it's just, you know, your daughter is forcing you to sort of look at your relationship in a different way. And it's wonderful that she sees you as a safe place to be able to talk about things and and to come to you and not be judged. And and you know that if she's at a party or something happens, that she knows that she can call you and not worry about being judged for those things. And those are, you know, particularly the teenagers, those are just crucial things. If you have barriers, that you're gonna your kids are gonna, your kids are gonna get into stuff. That's just that's the job of a teenager. Um, and they need to know that you're a safe place, yeah. Uh, so that they can, you know, explore and learn. And and you want them to figure those things out when they're still at home with you instead of somewhere else where bad stuff happens.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Exactly. No, as scary as that is, I totally agree with you. And I I wouldn't say encourage, you know, like, but also don't discourage. But I I let it happen on her terms. I'm not gonna be like, oh, you should definitely try a beer sometime, you know. I wouldn't do that offered that kind of stuff. But if she called me and was like, look, I'm at, you know, some family thing and the everybody is drinking, and I just drank a beer. And do you need me to come pick you up? Like, you're you know, only 17. You're kind of that's not a not the right choice for you today. But thank goodness, you know, at least and of course the the other adults uh I had to say, but I don't know about that was not good decision making, thank you, for this particular place. But you know, yeah, you you have to be grateful when they do come to you, even if something's happened, because then you can help them sort it out and you can help them understand how they're facing what consequences they're facing. And you know, maybe you have gone through it, maybe you haven't gone through it, maybe you're learning from you know, third party experience, but uh it is such a big difference to have somebody who is uh safe with you and feels safe with you than than not. So wouldn't change it for the world.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Absolutely. Uh this has been so great to get to know you and have this conversation, and I hope that people listening really think about the inclusion and the choices they're making on a daily basis to have that at the forefront of their mind. Is there social media or website or any kind of links you would like me to provide to yeah?

SPEAKER_00 33:17

I will be the first to say marketing has been I'm I'm like the worst person in the world at that. Um but we do have a website, and as as you know, we talked about it's raiseexpectations.com. That is exactly what it sounds like, and and that's where you know my books and a lot of um I know your site has a lot of resources and stuff like that. Uh and that's what we really try to sort of put out there, you know, for people the audience here is is

Supported Employment And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 33:45

a little more welcoming, a little more understanding of the community. And and uh often what I will tell people is that you know, the the best way to know somebody is to meet somebody and volunteering a couple hours at Special Olympics or Best Buddies, or you know, every every county usually has an ARC or something of that nature. And it can be life-changing. And as you know, you and I've talked about growing up in in in West Texas, I I I went through my entire, you know, high school college experience never having met somebody with an intellectual developmental disability, which we know statistically is impossible until I had a daughter with Down syndrome. And so I encourage people to sort of get to know the people around them, and that's a really easy way to do it. You know, you don't I I I would never ask somebody to commit to a year of their life to doing one thing, but spending an afternoon at a basketball game refereeing or something like that, just to experience something different, and is it's just and I'm I'm sure you've been to these events, they're just joyful. They're just uh you know, it's and it just I love it. And and being part of the human condition, you know, we tend to be experiential learners, and and once you're in that setting, it's easier to sort of understand the meaning of what we're talking about. You it's something you can't experience third person, it just isn't. That's so true.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

No, that is so true. And I invite everyone to please try to have one of those experiences. Excuse me. Special Olympics was so wonderful for our family in this last year. It really helped us see the potential that we didn't know that DJ could have, you know, in in that kind of a setting. And to have people accept and welcome us with open arms from the second we were there was so different of an experience to have. I I absolutely love love them so much. So, yes, please, if you do have that opportunity, please go and try something like that. It is amazing. And, you know, if you have special members of your family and just want to to connect with Sean or his website, raise X ray just raiseexpectations.com. And you can go find him and get resources there. This has been such a great conversation, and I really look forward to catching up soon again. And please let me know, like if you have a book or an event or anything that you'd like to, you know, promote or anything, I'll do your some of your marketing for you.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

That sounds wonderful. Thank you so much. It's it's been a lovely conversation. And on the side, if if you want, I can connect you with my wife too. Yeah, there's a lot in the autism world. I'd love to do that. She's she's in touch with a lot of different things that I'm not. So I I I have to give it to her.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Sounds like it. Yes, I love that. Well, thank you. This has been such a great conversation, and I look forward to staying in touch.

unknown 36:45

Thank you.