The Dental Business Guide
The Dental Business Guide
What no one tells you about building a dental group—and how to avoid the house-of-cards collapse
Ever wonder why so many dental roll‑ups look impressive on paper but wobble behind the scenes? We open the black box of group dentistry and share what actually sustains multi‑site performance when valuations cool and the market gets tougher. From private equity’s consolidator logic to the operational realities of head office costs, we trace how groups grow, where they break, and the financial habits that separate durable businesses from fragile collections of clinics.
We talk through the reset in sentiment—fewer buyers, halted listings, super clinics replacing smaller sites—and the knock‑on effect of squeezed margins. Then we get practical. Manpower first: why central overheads so often crush site profits and how offshore capability centres (bookkeeping, AP, marketing ops, data) deliver quality and resilience at scale. Structure next: set a clean HoldCo, build a tax group, and plan funding before you hit the debt ceiling. If equity comes in, pick partners whose timelines and governance fit the realities of dentistry, not just a spreadsheet.
Data is the engine. We break silos across practice management systems, accounting platforms, and analytics to power real decisions: associate pay without disputes, case acceptance tracking, and cash flow you can actually forecast. Add monthly bookkeeping discipline and a fractional CFO mindset to stay ahead of seasonality and lab cost surges. The final test is owner dependency—if the principal stops drilling, do margins hold? Build a system‑driven business with trained teams, tight processes, and reliable reporting, and your group becomes sale‑ready every day, not just in the teaser deck.
If you’re serious about scaling without stumbling, this conversation gives you a clear blueprint: financial clarity, clean data, robust structure, and a scalable team that works wherever talent lives. Enjoyed the episode? Follow, share with a colleague, and leave a quick review to tell us what you want covered next.
Okay, good evening, everybody. I'm Aaron here speaking, and uh tonight I'm gonna be talking about pretty much building a dental group. Okay. Um I I don't have any slides, I just thought I'd kind of discussed it and um uh kind of given my thoughts and views of the market um at the moment and uh kind of what people need to be doing going forward. Um this is kind of in line with an article I was actually writing earlier this week, which I haven't released yet, but it got me thinking very much deeply about this whole space of dental groups and whole the whole acquisition front. So let me kind of give you a bit of history, a bit of background. So, as you probably may know, I'm I'm a chartered accountant, I've been working with dentists for uh, oh god, a long time, for over 20 odd years. Um, I'm married to a dentist, that's how I got into this industry and Smeat is my wife. And many, many years ago, um I was an investment banker, um, decided to quit and start up Sumera. And at the same time, we started off our dental clinics, the Neem Tree, my wife's clinics. And we started them off. Um, the first clinic was a startup, a private startup. This is all back in 2003, 2000, yeah, about 2002, 2003, in Wandsworth London. Um, we subsequently added further clinic startups, all of them, one in Canary Wharf, then one in Isha in Surrey. And then we also did uh did opened up a few clinics, one in Fleet Street, one in Notting Hill Gay, all under the Nean Tree banner. And they were all startups, they weren't acquisitioned, they were all startups. And we had some good success. We sold our Canary Wharf one to Booper quite a long time back now. We sold the other clinics in in Fleet Street and Notting Hill, and so now where we stand now, we still have the Isha Clinic and the Wandsworth Clinic, which my wife manages and runs. She doesn't work clinically, she hasn't for many years. Um, but um what we've seen over the last what 10, five, 10 years is a massive growth in dental groups, not just here in the UK, but probably spurned on for what's happened in the USA. So what we've seen um historically are many, many um kind of groups emerge pretty much through acquisition, not really through startups, but mainly through acquisition. So someone has an idea they want to buy, have a clinic, then they think, I want to buy another one, they want to buy another one. So, what they've done over the years is they they buy clinics, um, they borrow money from banks, and that's kind of been the typical model. Now, what I've also found is that um we've seen in the last number of years, predominantly maybe in the last eight to ten years, is the introduction of private equity into the dental market. Um, private equity are basically private investors who are thinking that I can they can invest in a particular market and buy at X and sell at Y. Okay, so their whole model is based on a consolidator model. So they would buy, let's say they try and buy a few practices, five practices individually, say at six times EBITDA, six times the multiple of EBITDA. Um, and eventually, if they consolidate them all together, they can sell the whole group, say maybe at 12 times EBITDA. So that's the consolidator model. And in the good times, that's been very, very um active. Um, but with the view that many, many of the groups have always wanted to think, well, I want to be able to eventually list this organization. So I'll get to 100 clinics, 200 clinics, whatever it may be, I want to be able to list it. Um, but what we've seen is that thus far in the UK and nowhere else, to be honest with you, have we seen any um group, dental group, ever get listed? Um, there's it's never been the right time, neither the right appetite, or is there just too many variables of uncertainty when it comes to listing this type of business? Because we all know dentistry is not an easy business. Running one clinic is hard enough. Trying to run a group of clinics is even harder. Yet many, many people are still interested in investing the sector. But why? So I think we've seen in the good times, we saw people like um, well, not in the good times, we saw we saw we've seen people like my dentist acquire a lot of practices, a lot of practices. Um, they've changed their business model quite considerably from buying small sites to now closing down those small sites and opening up these super clinics. We've seen people like Portman acquire many clinics over the last number of years, but now they aren't really active in the market in buying clinics. We've seen um other groups, BUPA, sell off a load of clinics a number of years ago because they couldn't necessarily make it work. We see now new models emerging where people are providing partnership routes where you can sell part of your clinic, you retain a part of the clinic, and hopefully hand it over to the next generation, and eventually that's going to be your exit. So there's numerous um models out there, but it's kind of a uh it's it's it's it's it's people have made money because what they've done with these groups is that they've purchased clinics and especially in the private equity sector, what's happened is they build them and then they pass the parcel effectively. Let's say they acquire 20 or 30 or even 100 clinics, they pass the parcel on to the next private equity group who think they can grow it from say 100 to 150 clinics and then pass it on to the next party. At some point, this kind of house of cards could come, could come crumbling and crashing down, um, which we've seen in other markets, in other sectors, in other geographies as well. Um, but hopefully they'll pass it on at that at the right time and make some money out of it. But um, you've got to question um many of the kind of motives of private equity. So we've just seen recently Bridgepoint acquire My Dentist again, invest in My Dentist again, um, at a much lower valuation point than what they've invested in previously, okay, because they did a previously invest in it. I've not invested in it, they invested in Oasis, sorry, and they sold their stake to Oasis and made a lot of money, and now they're going to do exactly the same with Bridgepoint at a much lower valuation. So they're opportunists, they're business people, they're they're they're they're there to make money, and maybe not always in the best interest of patients, may not always be in the best interest of the teams that are in each clinic, but they will always paint that picture that they're they're not the same, they're not, they're not the evil, greedy money people, and and many of them aren't, okay, but there are some that could be, so you've got to be very careful. So I think the reality is, as I said earlier, building a dental clinic, one dental clinic is tough. Trying to build a group is uh kind of on a different level because you've got to have a whole different set of skills, okay, and a whole set of different team members to help you to do that. So there's a phrase that I've kind of um kind of this title of this document I've written is it's called risk is a four-letter word, but then sadly, so is ruin. Okay, and you can risk it and you could make a success of it, but with the nature of dentistry now, with all the the risks that are involved, the capital outlays, all the other problems in running a dental clinic, um, in whether it's manpower or immigration, getting dentists to work for you, whether it's NHS contracts, whether it's litigant litigation, it's not an easy business to run. But it's not that it's not impossible either. Now, if we look at the sector as a whole, um what we've seen since COVID, we saw we saw a strong boost in clinics and performance, just dental clinics overall, post very much post-COVID, patients coming back, getting treatment done, and we saw a big boom, big boom. But that boom is pretty much dissipated now. And what we're seeing now are, I suppose, um kind of struggling times, okay, economic challenges now. So if you if you I always look at stock prices, I'm a bit, big um investor. I love to invest in stocks and shares. I'm very active in it, and I'm always tracking um various stocks uh in all sectors, but in the dental sector which we are very active in, I track those. And if you look at something like dense by Sorona over the last five years, its share prices plummeted by about 73%. Align 61%, Strauman, okay, much lower, 12%, and Vista Holdings, which owns companies like Noble Biocare, 28%. And Henry Shine has gone up by 1% over, and that's for the last over the last five years from today's date, October the 14th, 2025. So that sentiment in the stock market of these types of companies is reflected also in the um in clinics I talk to and my team talk to day to day across the country. It's a tougher climate. So and you've got to be aware and understand, and to under it's got you've got to be aware and you've got to understand the implications of what's going to impact your clinic financially. So historically, um, dentistry's always been pretty well insulated. Um, people have pain, people want treatment, people will spend money and they'll get their teeth done, whether it's private or an NHS. Okay, but it's a much tougher climate now. There's more competition, um, taxes are higher, national insurance are higher, costs are much higher. So those margins are getting squeezed. And it's those that squeezing of margins, which I say, I'd say is the challenge that um clinics will have going forward, and therefore you've really got to start thinking of your business in a much more financial, savvy way. Okay. Before it was like, oh, I'll be all right, I've got enough cash in the bank. Um, but and that's okay for one clinic, but if you're gonna do that for a group, you're gonna really get into a pickle um because it can take one bad egg, one bad clinic, and that can bring literally the whole kind of house of cards down. So when I talk to group owners, it's literally they're spinning plates. It feels like they're spinning plates and making sure that when one's about to crash, they've got to catch it up and bring it up again. And that's the nature of running a dental group today. So you've got to be very careful you're gonna acquire what firstly, what you're gonna acquire if you are acquiring, um, how stable is it? How certain is it? Are you is it gonna be sustainable once they do once you do take it over? And is it gonna be there for the longevity? And if you can't get all those factors right, it's a it's a kind of a question, well, should we be investing in those clinics um at that point and that time? So I think um I think that that that that many many people believe is that okay, we've we've got to optimize, we've got to improve things, and we've got to change things. And yes, there's lots of talk of AI and dentistry and how it's gonna transform delivery of care and all these types of things, and I'm sure it will do, okay. But AI is the buzzword at the moment, no doubt about it. Um, and you've got to just be very, very much more financially savvy, as I just said, okay. So, what I'm gonna just run through today um on this webinar is just some of the key points, the financial savvy points you need to be doing in your clinic, um, or a clinic or clinics. This applies to one clinic, it applies to you if you ever have a group of a hundred clinics. Um, the same practical business aspects are the key. And and all of these points really come from my experience of working with groups: small, large, um, some successful, some absolutely dog-awful. Um, so but I'll just kind of run through these financial aspects that you need to understand. Um, so let me start with the first point. Now, manpower, that's the big issue, I think, affecting many, many clinics. Obviously, when you open up a clinic or buy a clinic or run a clinic, you need dentists and you need nurses and you need reception staff. You need all of that staff. One clinic is fine, two clinics. Yes, you need those people. Once you start adding further clinics, you're going to have many, many overheads. Um, centralized costs, you're gonna have to have um someone who's managing the bookkeeping, you might need someone to manage the marketing, you might have someone to deal with the social media, you might need someone to deal with compliance, you might need someone to deal with um video editing. It could be a whole range of things, okay? And this before you might have one clinic, two clinics, you got away with it, you managed it. Once you start adding more multiple clinics, you're gonna have to have this centralized layer um of overheads, okay? A marketing function and finance function, an accounting function, uh kind of compliance function, uh, infrastructure function, or someone looking after the buildings, making sure they're all managed and um compliant. Um, these costs add up and they add up very quickly. So when you're making nice profits in, say, one clinic or two clinics, once you've got all these other clinics, it's those centralized overheads that can literally wipe out any successful or any potentially successful group. Now, of course, in clinic you need great dentists, you need great nurses, you need great reception staff, you need great hygienists. But it's that middle layer, that well, that top layer of centralized cost, which usually kills a group. Okay. And if you look at the accounts of some of the groups that you see today that you're well known, know you will know names of, and you may work there, you might be know people who work there, you might even know some of the owners. The clinics work well, but it's that centralized cost that kills the business. And that's where they go wrong, because they don't have the right infrastructure, they don't have the right teams, and they haven't really thought this through. They're just acquiring, they've got the money, the banks are lending the money. Oh, yes, we'll buy another clinic, we'll buy another clinic, also greach clinic. But when you try and merge it into one kind of organization, it's a very, very messy game and certainly not as easy to run as people think. So, what can you do? So, as I said, you need good people in the clinic, but there's there's a whole world out there now that you can tap into, and this is what I'm trying to get across is that manpower doesn't have to be sitting in your clinic, it doesn't have to be sitting in London, and it doesn't have to be sitting in the UK. Um, and what I'm saying is you have to start thinking, what roles can I shift outside of the UK? And that's kind of part of our business now. We're helping groups set up their own global capability centers. So if they need a video editor, if they need a bookkeeper, if they need an accounter, if they need an accounts payable clerk, all of that type of thing. If they need all that, we will help them set up their own subsidiary company, say in India, and that's typically where we're working with. Help them hire the manpower, help them um train the manpower and get these people working within the context of their organization. They're still part of their business, albeit sitting perhaps in another country, but they'll still do the work for you. Now, why would you do that? Um, firstly, there's availability of capable manpower across the globe, in this instance, India. I know India very well. We deal with lots of people in India, and we have a big team in India, and we can get good talent, not good talent, great talent, to be honest with you. Of course, the cost is lower in India, it's certainly much lower than here in the UK and no national insurance and things like that. But I suppose the real benefit, and this is the real benefit, and I was speaking to a client about this yesterday. Um, he says it's not the cost saving that's really great, that's good, but it's the actual, you know what, I can have two people to do that role so I can make sure that that job is done, tip top position, tipped in tip-top condition, it's quality and it's done, and I don't have to keep chasing it and following up. I can have someone do it and I can have someone review it, and I can still make sure it's done properly. So it's quality, and therefore not having to worry about other things because running a clinic has comes with so many things, so many issues. So you want to have that team, and it's that having that scalability of a team overseas is the big factor that I think many, many kind of groups will benefit from um when they do that. So, manpower is my first point, and the first thing I must stress if you want to build a group, you need to think about an offshore team and how you're gonna do it. If you need help, you know where I am. Um, we can help you set up the Sibgery company, run the company, get you the manpower, do everything you need to be honest with. We have the infrastructure to do that. That's one of the key parts of our business now. The the second thing is the mistake that I see so many groups make over the years is in funding. Um, they have one idea, an idea. I want to buy a click clip, but I'm gonna get it start a dental group. So they buy one, okay. Fine. They buy two, got two clinics, but they haven't really thought through the second clinic they buy is an asset purchase. The first one's a sole trader, the third one's an initiative company, another one's a partnership, it's a mess, okay? And they don't really have a strategy to um to grow, and that's where it goes wrong because before you know it, they kind of hit a ceiling. Now, banks do love dentists, historically, they love dentists, but especially when you give them the you're giving them a personal guarantee on any debt, okay? So if you default, they'll come after you in your assets on a personal guarantee. But but the point I'm trying to make here is that you can get to a kind of a debt ceiling or debt level that you get to, but beyond that, they're not gonna give you the money or they're very unlikely to give you much money because you've already taken up a lot of debt and you've got a personal guarantee, but your personal guarantee may not be sufficient for the debt levels you want to take on. So that's when you start having to think, well, I'm gonna have to give equity away to say someone like private equity, um, to but kind of give equity away, but to sack to to get some growth. Okay, so you've got to be very careful here that when you go into um kind of get investors in, you're choosing that right partner. Um, and I've seen it many a time where the right partner it just doesn't work, okay. One person's got one vision, another party's got another vision, you get those partners together, the investor vision is very different to the management team, and boy, do they clash, okay? And that's when it all can go very wrong very quickly. So, in setting up this whole business, it's so important to think about the structure how of how you're gonna start up of a group when you start out. How's it gonna look? What's it gonna look like? Um, how are you gonna acquire these clinics? Um, and and then from that, it's about how you're gonna fund those clinics as well. And it's important to talk to across the market, get lots of conversations with lenders, and again, um getting the structure right and then choosing the right lender who's gonna work with you over a period of time is paramount. At some point, you may want to get growth equity or give give give shares away to get further private equity money, and maybe you will, maybe you won't. Okay, but that's a choice you can make. Excuse me. So if you need help there, talk to me about your structuring of your group. And then, secondly, if you need the funding, that's what we do. We can help you get funding for acquisitions, but we can also look at your portfolio of debt and then think, okay, how are we going to refinance this? What are you paying the right terms? Have you got the right terms in place? Quite often or not, your terms may not be right, and all it takes is someone to review it and make sure it's right. So, again, reach out to me or my colleague you're asked to help. Now, this is a really important point, okay. Um, data, data, and this is something that I'm particularly excited about in our business under the Sumera AI banner. Now, trouble with data industry, everything's in silos, data is in silos. You have data that sits in um kind of your software practice management systems such as Dently or Software of Excellence, you have soft data sitting in Xero or QuickBooks, you have data sitting in Google Analytics, you have data sitting in Google Search Console, you have data sitting in various silos, but they're all individual silos, okay? And that's no use to you at all. Now, some of this can be collected via the cloud through APIs, but somewhat like software of excellence, there are no APIs. So we have to think of solutions to how can we bring all that data together to into a database which we can then interrogate that database and kind of mine that database to say what decisions can we make from this data? How can we interpret that interpret that data better? So some groups are now starting to realize this is the key to the to the to the to unlocking the success. You've bought all these clinics, it's uh it's a bit of a mishmash of loads of clinics, but rather than acquire more and more, we need to really consolidate and really understand what's running in our business, what's working well, and where we can optimize. So the date the data will tell the story if you manage to decipher the data and understand the data and clean the data up. But remember, when you put data into a system, it has to be clean. And when it comes out, hopefully you'll be clean and answerable as well. But if you put garbage in, you're gonna get garbage out. So it's so important to think about um the data side of things. So what we're doing now, we're we're basically building tools where we'll extract data from one, say, software of excellence or um Xero or Dentally or QuickBooks and piecing it all together into a database to help our clients understand their data better. Similarly, we're doing building other tools which will make things run better and more efficient, such as something like Associate Pay. It's been a bane of many, many, many practices and groups' lives over the years. What we're saying is, well, we can grab the data from dentally, we can grab the data from zero, the lab costs, piece them together, and here you go. That's the associate pay done. But it takes foresight, it takes thinking, it takes um software developers, which we have in our team, um, to be able to do that. So if that sounds like something that's interest to you to help you run your group better or um manage your group better, then this is definitely a solution you want to get involved with. And we're developing it currently. Reach out to me, get visit sumera.ai, and you can definitely um find out more about what you're doing there. Then another area that I see groups struggle with, and this is goes to tax, okay. The most common question I get from dentists is how can I save more tax? How can I save more tax? Whether it's a single dentist or whether it's a group, okay. And kind of I think I've had more hot dinners than um, or more requests more than I've had hot dinners, to be honest. So again, this goes back to structure, okay? It's a mishmash. So many clinics buy, or so many practices by a sole trader and the keepers that's a soldier, someone has a limited company, someone has a partnership in a clinic. Honestly, it's a mess, okay. This needs to be thought through. You need to be thinking, I have a holding company. That holding company was going to be funded, and that company is then going to buy the shares of subsequent practices, okay? Therefore, they're all part of one tax group. So if one company is loss making, and the profits are in the other, that loss can be offset against the profits. If they're not in a tax group, you're you're messed up, it's a mess. Okay. These new things need to be done. And this is something, again, we can help with, okay. And it takes a bit of foresight, it takes some planning, it takes some effort, it takes some restructuring of your business, but it'll save you tax. But it more importantly, it'll set your business up for the future if you wanted to sell, because in the future, you would just sell the shares of the Hold Co to a party, and everything else underneath it would go. Simple. Okay, it's not that simple, but that's the principle behind it. Okay, so the key has to be don't focus on the tax, don't let the tax tail kind of um wag the commercial tail. Focus on building a good business with the right structure. That has to be the key. And I think many, many people sometimes forget that. And then back to kind of the again, back to me and my accounting hat, finance hat, um, and it goes back to garbage in, garbage out. I've seen so many groups. This is a group, not let alone single clinics. I've seen so many groups who've got who cut corners, who don't do the bookkeeping right, who don't um record record their uh information correctly. That is tantamount to disaster. So you need to be you need to be bookkeeping everything monthly. There's no excuse now, okay? Whether you and it's not a matter of just doing it yourself or getting your practice manager or nurse to do it, that's gonna be a mess. Get someone who's qualified to do it, get a bookkeeper, or hire someone like ourselves. We do bookkeeping, we do hundreds of bookkeeping of clients' bookkeeping across the UK. And that data going in will feed the zero or something. That zero will feed our data analysis, okay, which we can then compare with the PMS. Remember Sumera AI? That's when we can start understanding the data and getting better ideas. Now, in addition, what we do is with some of our clients is that if the data's going in and we help them interpret the data, and that's kind of part of our CFO service for dental groups. So, again, if you if you want a fractional CFO to help you with your group, help you understand the numbers, that's again one something that we can do. But it's only as good as the data going in. So it's so important to have the right financial system set up in the first place, having the bookkeeping done properly, making sure they're management accounts, making sure you've got a proper accounts payable system in place, making sure that um you've got good banking processes in place, just making sure you've got a good control over your finances. If you don't have that, you will struggle, okay? And you'll be struggling, and you won't be able to buy a group or to build a group. And most importantly, any investor will look at your accounts and say, Well, yours is a mess. I'm not going to buy this group. There's too many unknowns here. They want certainty if you're looking to build and sell that group in the future. So, very important, very important to consider the accounting and bookkeeping. Then another point that groups always struggle with, and this kind of goes back to bookkeeping, it goes, this kind of covers everything, is cash flow or lack of cash flow. And it's not going to be a loss-making clinic isn't going to destroy your business or destroy your group. It's going to be the poor cash flow, poor cash flow management. And you want to be able to predict what your cash flow is going to be. If you think December is going to be a quiet month because of Christmas, or if you think August is going to be quiet because your main associates are away, that's going to have an impact on your cash flow. So you need to make sure you have cash in place in your bank, or you have access to cash that can fund those kind of ups and downs. Now, if you don't have that cash, you need to be thinking, well, do I need investment? Do I need um a lender to be able to help me that? Or do I need short-term working capital to help me fund those gaps or fund those differences? So again, having a CFO on hand, someone like ourselves who can interpret and see the data and understand the numbers and tell you what you need to do is something we can do. So again, the CFO dental service may be something that may be of um interest as well. I can't believe I've been talking for uh 28 minutes actually, thus far. So, okay, I'm almost done. So don't worry. I know I set myself half an hour for these calls each evening. Uh each time I do this, um, I've got to go to the supermarket, I've been told by the wife. So there you go. Um, and then I suppose the other real true litmus test for um groups is I've seen groups emerge from one main owner or main one main dentist working as a group as a dentist. But the real test comes when that dentist requires multiple clinics or sheikh acquires multiple clinics, but then they have to step away and they stop doing dentistry. Now, if they might be a high-earning dentist in the clinic, but if you take them out, does do the numbers stack up quite often or not? And even if they might be doing the odd implant, that adds to the revenue quite a lot. But if they weren't doing it, would it work? Would it work? So it's so that's the true test of whether a group is going to be is going to be successful in the future. Um, and that's when you know when you've got a real business or one that's just kind of being supported by one main dentist or one or two key personnel dentists generating the revenue. So the question you have to ask, is the business system driven or is it just dependent on a few key dentists generating that income? And and question, what would your margins be if the owners stopped doing dentistry? Would it shrink from here to from high to a loss? If it does, then you're not building a group, you're just building a headache for yourself. So the key is to not build a um kind of a group dependent on key people, um, but ultimately build the team that um can deliver care. Okay, and that team can be in clinic, but also that team sitting perhaps overseas, as I highlighted earlier. Um, it's important to invest in the right financial systems um to give you the insight. It's important to make sure you're doing all the bookkeeping correctly and make sure you have the right account system set up, um, and ultimately also having access to the right data to make the better decisions. Now, all of these things are things that many, many dental groups don't even think about. Now, if you're thinking about one or two of these things, or you're doing something one about one or two of these things, absolutely brilliant, okay? But really going forward, I honestly honestly say is that DSOs need to up their game on the financial metrics, on the financial game. I've been in this game for 20 odd years, okay, and it's never been finer now. The the kind of line between kind of reward and ruin or risk and ruin, okay, it's never been finer. You can get one thing wrong and you don't have these things in place, and you'll struggle. So, what I would suggest to anyone who's embarking on that path of um do it DSO ownership or growing a DSO is that they need to embrace financial clarity, um, build a financial team that's capable, and ultimately put in strong financial processes that will ultimately build a business that will be rewarded handsomely in the future. Right. Sorry, I've kind of spurted it out over the last 29 minutes and 48 seconds. Um, I know I don't have any questions today, but I didn't really have a chance to put any slides together. I just thought I'd just talk about what's been on my mind and what I've been thinking and seeing. Um, I appreciate you may have questions, you may not have questions. I know I've just thrown a lot of um stuff to to everybody here. Um but uh if anyone has any questions, anything. So uh so all right, thank you for your comments, guys. Okay, um yeah, so we are doing um there's a comment we are we do do a course um for people who want to buy their first clinic, the basics and everything that is needed. Yes, we've got that one in. I'll share the details now. Actually, it's on my uh website. Hold on, it's not till February, I think. Let me just share this in here. Where is it gone? So this is here. That's the boot camp, and that's the event. Um, that's what hopefully it's worked. That's our boot camp that we run, and that hopefully you'll enjoy. Um, it's for people buying their first clinic or setting up their first clinic. Um, you can book a ticket with spaces available, there's only like 10 spaces though. So we've just literally launched it in the last week, so make sure you come to that. Um hope you found it. And uh yeah, thank you for the kind messages, and um definitely would like to catch up with any of you soon. Okay, so thanks very much, guys. And uh, if you enjoyed this, please do tell your friends um and uh have a lovely evening. I've got to go to the supermarket, I've got to go to Saint Bries. Thank you.