We discuss trust in relationships at work… how trust is cultivated, earned, and maintained. We’ll explore what happens when trust is lost, when to try to recover and when to walk away.
We discuss trust in relationships at work… how trust is cultivated, earned, and maintained. We’ll explore what happens when trust is lost, when to try to recover and when to walk away.
Dr. D. 0:09
Hello, and welcome to the realm. I'm Dr. D, I bring the strategy.
Dr. K 0:13
And I'm Dr. K, I bring the psychology, we are business psychologists and your guides to the executive realm where we bring strategy and psychology together...
Dr. D. 0:21
So you can bring your best to your C suite, your teams and your customers. Today we're talking about trust at work, how trust is cultivated, earned and maintained, we'll explore what happens when trust is lost when you try to recover. And frankly, when to walk away. Let's get to work. Dr. K, if people in relationships are the basis of business, then trust must be a foundational component of getting worked on. How do you think about trust from working with your business clients?
Dr. K 0:48
Well, for me with business clients, it's it's two sided. One is cultivating the trust for them, letting them know that they can trust me that I'm going to bring everything I have to the meeting to whatever we're trying to work on to the relationship. It's also me trusting them that they are giving me all the information that I need to be able to, again, do everything that they are looking for us to accomplish on the client side, it's them, finding ways to trust me letting me know where they where their concerns are. And it's also again, them telling me everything, so it's very two sided with different components. But very important, because if I only know certain things, I can only do so much.
Dr. D. 1:38
It's interesting, because when people break through that trust barrier, you almost can sense when it happens, people are hesitant, they might hold back, they might be reserved, they might talk around a subject, and then as soon as you feel like that trust barrier has been broken through, it's like people just open up and all of a sudden, you can get a sense of who a person really is. Most people have a really good innate sense about whether the person that they're talking to trust them. And if, and likewise, if you don't trust the person, people generally have a pretty good sense that there's something off in the relationship. Trust is really most noticed when it's not there. And that gets to the idea of understanding your style of trust, Dr. K, you and I both have very similar trusting styles, we are the type of people that trust, I know this, because we've had this conversation, because it's an important part of building relationships. But having a trusting style, where you trust implicitly from the start, that's the kind of trust that I walk into a really relationship, just assuming that trust is there from the start. The challenge with that is when trust is lost when somebody loses when I lose confidence in someone, and I don't trust them any longer, it's really difficult to earn that trust back. It's not impossible, but it's really difficult for somebody earn that trust back on the other side. And again, these are extremes people are along a spectrum on you know, their trusting style. On the other side, there are people who do not trust from the start, you have to earn their trust from the very beginning, you have to start with the zero balance, and you have to fill up that trust tank for they trust you. I always interpersonally and particularly early in my career, I did not understand that distinction between trusting styles, I would give up on people who didn't trust from the start, because I just assumed that they would never trust so I didn't want to invest or I didn't realize I needed to invest in building trust with them. Because why would I have to I trusted them immediately from the beginning. I don't understand why you have to jump through these hoops and provide all this extra work when really you hired me or we work together. So there should be a foundational basis of trust there from the beginning, but not every buddy operates that way. And I missed a lot of that earlier in my career.
Dr. K 4:06
Yeah, I would agree I'm the same way as you i i for the most part trust pretty quickly. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, I would say probably to a little bit of detriment to myself when I was younger. Now as my experience has grown, my education has changed my relationships with people have changed. I as a behavioral specialist, I do notice, but I'll notice some I guess some hold back on other people's part and then that will I'll still trust them but it goes to a certain extent and stops so if I'm reading them, you know if I'm reading their behaviors and trying to understand and they are slightly standoffish or slightly disengaged, I have learned to not always push because I used to be a very big pusher and just go all in but I've learned not to push but I'm also Like, okay, if they're disengaged, they're not fully trusting, I'm going to hold back my trust, because there's a reason. So I will hold back a little bit, because maybe me being so trusting could make them uncomfortable.
Dr. D. 5:12
That is a great point. And if you come on too strong in some ways it can, it can put people off, I still tend to approach every new relationship as an open book with a lot of trust that's burned me a couple of times, right? In business as well, where I've over shared, or I've held on to that trust in another person for longer than I should too long. Yeah. And it can be, I think the only appropriate word I can think of is naive, I really want to believe and again, this comes back to optimism. And some of the other personality traits that fit into this category are fit fit into defining your style. But I tend to be very optimistic about people, I tend to approach new relationships as though a person can be 100% completely trusted, and that their motivations are pure and intent. And they are completely working to invest in building a relationship with that as well. And and I know that's not true, but I don't want to change my style. Because so often building a relationship and driving or demonstrating my openness in my willingness to trust other people has helped build really strong relationships really quickly, the benefits of that approach has certainly outweighed the negative consequences, the one or two people that were so confused by my willingness to trust because they were not of a trusting nature by from the start, that wasn't their style, that I would have to adjust or the relationship didn't work, because that was not the right way to approach it. Now, often in a business environment, you still have to work with people, and you find a way to build trust with people. I mean, you know, if you are someone who is mission oriented, and not self serving, you own up to your mistakes, and all of the things that will again, talk about probably in more detail as this conversation goes on, you tend to develop some trust in
Dr. K 7:07
people. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, with what you were saying, you may trust people right away, and there are certain things that are going on. But as a leader, sometimes you have to, you know, you're going to have your your fear with the trust, but something that you want to look at as the leader is you want to look at your employees strengths and their weaknesses. So it's an intellectually placed trust. So on the leader side, it's important to know your employees know your teams, and where to put them appropriately,
Dr. D. 7:39
there is a biases, something called fundamental attribution bias, where people assume they understand people's behavior. So somebody who is not quite in the right role in an organization and maybe don't perform as well as they should on a skills basis or a task basis doesn't mean that they're a bad person and can't be trusted, it just means that they don't have a skill set. But I've often heard leaders say I don't trust person x, because they don't deliver on why. And it's not necessarily anything to do with personality, or their integrity or anything else. It's just they don't have the skill set developed or they're slightly misplaced in their skills. And so that causes an erosion of trust. But that's not really a trust issue. That is a skill gap issue. A person might not be a good fit for a role. And that is a very real thing. leaders have to be careful not to miss categorize those things as trust issues, trust issues, come down to integrity, following through on commitments, and doing what you say you're going to do all of those things, not whether or not they have the capability to get the job done.
Dr. K 8:47
Absolutely. That totally agree we do a lot of this based around leaders. And your role as a leader is to some extent, read the room and read the individuals in the room. That's where, you know, we're often talking about transparency and communication. If you are saying to yourself, or you're saying it to other leaders in the room, you know, I don't trust Person A because they don't deliver on me, then maybe talk to Person A what is happening, that we're not able to get this product out or we're not you know, we're missing deadlines, what is happening? How can I help? Is there confusion, whatever you think might be going on, and not just what the leader thinks is going on, ask Person A what is going on, ask them to communicate, because as humans, we're going to have a subjective viewpoint, especially when we're in the midst of it. So it's going to be harder to look at it. And so ask the person that you're struggling with what their viewpoint is, and then that's when you can you can tackle these issues.
Dr. D. 9:48
Yeah, and a big part of being a leader is being able to evaluate a situation a set of circumstances, the capabilities of people objectively, a lot of this conversation, at least from my point We're going to talk a lot about biases that are introduced in decision making and thinking. And so when those areas where you were talking about Dr. K where it's what you think might be going on, there are biases associated with that there is asymmetric information bias where you think you know more about a situation and the person that actually involved and then there's also projection bias where you project what you think a person is doing based on what you think the circumstances are, the circumstances can be very different for them. If you do that, as a leader, if you jump to conclusions and project what you're thinking ends on a person and you are wrong, you could be right. But if you are wrong, it erodes your own trust, every situation has to be approached, particularly in difficult conversations or performance issues, or even the small challenges in getting things done, you have to approach the situation with an open mind, inquisitive asked question, because often what you think is going on is not what's really going on. So you always have to, as a leader approach every situation from a clean slate, you have to really recognize whether the conversation you're about to have is going to be driven by historical learning about a person or a situation or even a person in a given situation versus the right thing to do approaching every time with a fresh perspective, we do
Dr. K 11:21
want to talk about how listeners out there might be like, well trust is more of a relational thing outside of the business and not understanding what can impact or what leads to lack of trust. Because to be honest, if you can't trust someone doesn't mean that you're telling your deep, dark secrets. But if you can't trust the leader feels that they can't trust their employee to get something done. Or if an employee can't trust that their leaders are going to support them. There is going to be a lot of disengagement, term
Dr. D. 11:52
churn and all of those things as well.
Dr. K 11:55
Yeah. So for leaders, it's important to understand what can what impact if you're unable to build trust, or you've lost trust how that impacts the employees, if an employee can't trust a leader or a leader can't trust an employee, there's decrease in productivity and effectiveness. If I don't think my leader is going to support me, then what do I care and then that's going to create even more lack of trust. And when that happens, everything else can start crumbling around, leaders often
Dr. D. 12:26
will talk about how important their team members are to being able to get the job done. When you don't have trust, you'll hear an employee, particularly an employee who might not have earned or may have lost trust with the leader, they'll say, Man, my boss doesn't like me, right. And so that becomes a sticking point, they don't say my boss doesn't trust me, they don't articulate it in the way because they don't know they just get an overwhelming sense that you don't like but a leader who stands up and says My team is the most important part. And then their actions don't support that then the perception of the team is that the leader can't be trusted that their motivation that their words are empty, they're motivated by self interest. So it's really important that if a leader is going to say that their team is the most important part of the business, and that doesn't mean that you can't make tough business decisions, address performance issues, or more structural business changes happened. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a leader who says the team is the most important part and then doesn't treat their team or act like the team in action is the most important part, it's a really easy way for a leader to lose credibility, it will set the tone that a person is motivated by self interest and not motivated by the mission, there are people who are motivated by self interest. And that is okay, you just have to own who you are. And be transparent with that and demonstrate that I am in this role, because I want to get to the next higher level role. It is an honest assessment of the situation. If you believe that in your mind, and you try to set the perception that you are not motivated by self interest, you will have a hard time getting trust from others.
Dr. K 13:59
Definitely Yeah, your team wants to know that you are there for them. And that you're also there for the organization because that's what the team is there for. Yes, you may want to move up the ladder, the corporate ladder, but to move up the corporate ladder, you have to have the team and something else to you know, keep in mind as a leader, you want to invest in your employees, if we're always running out of ink to print, we're not going to be able to produce they're not going to trust that our leader is going to provide the stuff that we need or if an employee comes to a leader and says you know, I think that by take these those online classes or continuing education or whatever it is, I think these would be beneficial. Can I take an hour and 10 I take you know one day off to do this. And you say no, even though the employees wanting to better the team or better themselves, that's not providing a chance for the employee to grow professionally or personally and that employees not going to trust the leader. They don't want what's best for me, which then is best for them. So I'm going to kind of stand back now, I'm not going to trust. So it's one of those additional things that leaders need to do, they need to provide time and resources.
Dr. D. 15:13
Yeah, I mean, if you, if you, as a leader, say, I believe in investing in the growth of my team, and they're investing in the education of your team, and you don't provide educational or growth opportunities, then you are not living, you're committed, if an employee comes to you, and says, we don't have the tools that we need to do the job, and it's and you say, Oh, no problem, I'll make sure that gets done, and it doesn't get done, you will lose trust in your employees. I mean, it's just, there's no two ways about it. It's not just trust in your employees that you have to focus on, you have to think about the trust in your peers, you have to think about the trust in your leaders, I think there is no more frustrating leader to work with, in my experience, then a leader who works really hard to build trust in those that they work for, but don't build trust in those that they work with. These are folks who seem to glow in the eyes of senior leadership, but then really just don't have the respect of their colleagues, in many cases don't have the respect of their employees, a well rounded leader builds trust at every level, in their sphere of influence. They build trust and live their commitment with their team and recognize the value that their team brings to making them successful. The relationships with the peers are critically important to being able to effectively work and collaborate across a complex project or even any business, it always requires multiple buyers expertise from across an organization. And you have to have trust in your leadership, and you have to trust your leadership. So you have to focus on all of those. And there are people who are imbalanced in their approach. There are leaders who put so much faith and confidence in their team and trust their team so much, that they end up protecting their team in times that they shouldn't become imbalanced in their perception of their team versus the rest of the organization, a leader can become so invested in the relationship with their team that they lose confidence from others, from leaders and from colleagues, because they're so emotionally invested in the team. And that really gets to the idea that there is a dark side of trust, you can over trust, as we spoke about at the beginning, there's a level of naivete a level of trusting for too long or not testing the assumptions of your basis of trust and being overconfident in the relationships that you have in trust. And Dr. K, what are some areas where trust really can work against you
Dr. K 17:44
trusting too much, and not being trusting to the point where you don't see red flags, or trusting to the point that we're not looking at weaknesses or opportunities? I think that would be the biggest part of where it could be something negative, or, as we've been kind of talking about biases, also in-group bias, where we're just okay, well, my team says this, and I believe everything that my team says it's kind of like a little gossip session. Well, obviously, if we're gossiping about it, then that's the that's the truth, taking every single thing that you hear as truth and not either forming your own opinion, researching what needs to go on and trusting that that in group opinion, I think that is also a very big, you know, as you call it, the dark side of trust, or a very potential negative pathway that someone can go down when it comes to trust. And in the end also, with a lack of trust. It's we don't know what people's reactions or what words can be said. Or what, what pathways people might take when there's no trust because not having trust is very scary for people.
Dr. D. 18:54
Absolutely. If we think about again, very generally the two styles and trust somebody who trusts from the start can place confidence in people that they shouldn't and can tie in earned it yet yeah, and can make poor decisions because they want the person a new relationship, or the someone that they don't know very well in business. They want to believe that their motivations are good, they want to believe that their word can be trusted, and you can make errors in judgment as a result of that, just as someone who earns trust slowly. The dark side of that is that a person once you have formed your group of trusted advisors, the people that you rely on, you can take their word as gospel. In some cases, biases can circulate in a small group of close-knit highly trusted individuals. This happens often in leadership where there's a small group of decision-makers with a disproportionate amount of authority and power and an organization and they don't tend to listen to outside voices that can, again, you brought up in-group bias. That's exactly what this is. It's important that in both cases, whether you trust early or you take time to earn trust, and then trust deeply, it is so important that you continually push yourself to reach outside perspectives, you have to think about what your assumptions are, you have to think about Do I really, am I really evaluating the decision? I'm trying to make the information and the information that I'm contemplating? Am I doing it objectively, because if you get your information from a small group of people, or a small group of information sources, it is just as dangerous as trusting people naively. So you always have to be on the lookout of how do I expand where I'm getting my information from? Am I too insular in my thought process and decision making you really have to test your assumptions on who you're trusting while you're trusting them, and you can still trust them, but also start to develop trust in other areas. And
Dr. K 21:03
yeah, there's a spectrum of it, you know, it's, as we said, we can be hurt quickly, because we trust too quickly. And then people that are on the other end of the spectrum, or they make someone earn it to an extent that maybe you never get to earn it, because that was difficult for the person that you're trying to make earn. So it's finding that it's finding a happy medium, maybe there is something about we met in school. And I think from the beginning, we pretty much trusted each other right away. Neither one of us at least not yet have
Dr. D. 21:33
in our personality. So we That's true.
Dr. K 21:35
Yes. But then there were other people that I didn't have that connection with that trusted, but not to the level that I trusted with you. So I swung on the spectrum, or the pendulum swung for me, because whatever it was, I was like, Okay, I'm going to have, maybe I'm not going to keep that person at arm's length. But I'm not going to let them in my sphere. As quickly as we became friends, we became colleagues, and working on projects together pretty quickly, there's opportunity to swing back and forth, you just have to take that kind of maybe go with your gut feeling to some extent, or you know, if your gut feeling is saying one thing, but you've got people that are like, No, we can trust this person, this is why maybe open up your lens a little bit to allow that in. And then what we have to remember, is our lens of trust, or our amount of trust, our level of trust can change. Maybe we don't trust someone at first, and then all of a sudden, we're like, oh, my gosh, why did I not trust this person? They're amazing. They're doing everything that I've asked for, or my leader is providing everything that they said, so our trust level can change. And that is okay, it's not set in stone, you can either lose it or gain it. Or maybe you're a little on guard at times.
Dr. D. 22:57
Yeah. And even Yeah, everybody has to test their assumptions about why and when they should trust regardless of when they are in the relationship they should. People who have a difficult time trusting should try to trust earlier. Those that trust easily, should continually evaluate their assumptions about why they trust and not question the ability to trust, because the ideal relationship is one where you trust from the beginning and you trust deeply for the entire length of the relationship. But that doesn't mean that you have to believe everything a person says, or their information sources or adopt their biases, whether you realize you're doing that or not. So it's really important that you evaluate objectively the information and the decision the the outcomes that you're trying to make in business separately from the relationship that you have with the people when doing that business.
Dr. K 23:48
So with that said, What can leaders take away from this discussion today,
Dr. D. 23:52
working in a place where there's a lack of trust leads to anxiety micromanagement missed opportunity, and frankly, a degrading culture. Not everyone trusts in the same way it's important to understand your trust style and the style of those around you understand if you trust easily or if Trust has to be earned, understand what causes trust to be lost and how you are willing to re establish trust. If it's lost. build trust by understanding your style and the style of others. Don't be afraid to ask lead by example. Keep your word demonstrate your motivations aren't based in self interest, admit your mistakes and let actions be consistent with your mission. Transparency is key. If you're sensing a lack of trust, talk about it. If you are losing trust in someone else, or if you feel like someone else might be losing trust in you have the conversation but keep in mind there is a dark side to trust common biases can lead to insular decision making. Make sure you validate your assumptions when getting insight from someone you know well and get perspectives from different people to get as many unique points of view and information sources as you can trust is important and it's really only noticed when it's missing. Make it a point to understand How trust works in you how it works in those around you and make it work for you. With all that said, Dr. K, what's on tap for next week?
Dr. K 25:08
Well, next week we will be starting a series of discussions about organizational design. Whether you're starting a new company from scratch, transforming an existing company, or even designing a team to work better leaders must be intentional with how they build their team and their organization. The first episode, we'll think through the purpose of your organization,
Dr. D. 25:30
I'm excited about the series talked about a lot of elements of this, but this will kind of synthesize everything, bring it together and should be a really fun and interesting conversation. Well thank you, Dr. K. And to all of you joining us on this journey to the realm. Thank you so much. I'm Dr. D.
Dr. K 25:47
And I'm Dr. k. And we are looking forward to your next visit to the Executive Realm