In this episode we chat with Jeff K. from the PAOC International Office on Disciple-Making Movements that are working around the world and what their future is in Canada. We talk about what DMM's are, will they work in Canada, and is now the time to explore these new models? Jeff works with PAOC Restricted Access Nation's global workers and brings great teaching and content through his own experience with DMM. Check it out!
In this episode we chat with Jeff K. from the PAOC International Office on Disciple-Making Movements that are working around the world and what their future is in Canada. We talk about what DMM's are, will they work in Canada, and is now the time to explore these new models? Jeff works with PAOC Restricted Access Nation's global workers and brings great teaching and content through his own experience with DMM. Check it out!
Transcript of Podcast by Multiply Network
Created to champion church multiplication, provide learning and inspire new disciple-
making communities across Canada
July 13, 2020 – Jeff (Restricted Access Nations)
Paul Fraser: Hi there. Welcome to the Multiply Network podcast. My name is Paul Fraser. I’m so glad that you tuned in today. Hey leaders out there, you’re doing a great job. Stay at it. Stay healthy. Keep leading with innovation and grace. You are doing a great job in these unusual and uncertain times.
One focus that I think is emerging from this pandemic in the church world is discipleship. How do we make disciples and were we making them before? I think there is a new openness amongst leaders to talk about models, methods and strategies. Obviously the mission is the same but those things are up for debate. I think we need to look at our international church and find out what they’re doing and see if we can adopt some of those things.
In this podcast we talk with Jeff who works in International Missions of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada with Restricted Access Nation workers. We talk about disciple-making movements, what are they, will they work in Canada and is this the time for us to start to implement that. We cover a lot of ground on this and I know you’re going to get a lot out of it.
I also want to say stick around for the prayer right at the end, the prayer of blessing. I want that prayer to be prayed over you.
Hey, the interview is coming up right now.
Q. Hi Jeff. Welcome to the Multiply Network podcast.
A. Thanks. It’s great to be with you, Paul.
Q. It’s so great to have you on. I enjoyed getting to know you recently. We’ve had some good conversations around disciple-making movements. That’s what we’re going to be talking about today.
But why don’t you talk a bit about your ministry journey and what you do now?
A. Well, about fifteen years ago my wife and I, and at that point our young child, went overseas. We have spent the last fifteen years overseas. We just arrived back in Canada last summer. So what we have been doing for the last five years is Regional Director for RAN so it’s our entity within international missions that really has the expression of making disciples where the gospel is restricted. We have about fifty-plus global workers who are in contexts where they can’t go in with a missionary visa or identity but are still there to be able to see the kingdom of God advance, particularly amongst the unreached. Since September of 2019 I have been the Director of Strategic Initiatives and Mobilization for International Missions. So I’m wearing a couple of hats these days. That’s a little bit about us.
Q. It is quite a shift coming back to Canada as we talked about just reintegrating back into Canadian culture after being in restricted access nations. But it’s great to have you in our International Office leading these things.
So we’re trying to get voices, international voices, speaking into the Canadian context of church multiplication. Some things that are rolling around in my head these days are we are planting churches in Canada at a pretty good rate. It is on the radar screens of many denominations but nowhere in the world that is a church planting movement plants churches how we plant churches. I think we need to be talking to those leaders in international contexts. How are they planting churches? How are they making disciples?
You are exposed obviously to so many movements around the world that are seeing such tremendous growth, Jeff. What could movements around the world teach us in Canada about church multiplication?
A. That’s a great question. For myself I did eight years of pastoral ministry. So youth pastor, assistant pastor, I was in Oshawa, I was in Calgary and ended up overseas. Then looking at a restricted context. All of a sudden the whole model by which I was doing ministry really began to shift and change. I realized a lot of the things that I thought were absolutely essential to ministry became actually impossible to do in the context I was in. I would say it this way. We kind of tripped and fell into DMM so it wasn’t like we got training on it and then we began to do it. We actually ended up overseas in a context where we couldn’t have buildings. You couldn’t say at 10:30 on Sunday mornings, see you here. Let’s have pews and do ---
You couldn’t do any of that stuff. So we began to really say what is it that we’re supposed to be doing because we can’t have buildings. We can’t do this and yet we were there wanting to see the kingdom of God advance. So we kind of found ourselves in this place where we originally thought what we needed to do was we needed to see one individual who comes to faith. So you evangelize him. You share and you witness and then when you have that happen then you would want to see maybe okay, another person. And you add them together to create a group eventually and then at some point you get to the maturity at which you would be able to get them to share with others and see it grow. Eventually you would look to pass the baton and allow local leadership to rise up.
We actually realized that all of those things become very difficult in terms of the journey forward and the barriers. So being able to start with the end in mind was about being able to say let’s begin disciple groups. Let’s begin to have people share right from the very beginning. Let’s have locals give leadership and I will help them to be able to lead right from the beginning, rather than me leading and then passing it on.
Even fifteen years ago when I went there was a book that had really shaped a lot of my thinking. It’s not a new book. It’s an old book. It’s called The Master Plan of Evangelism by Robert E. Coleman.
Q. Wow.
A. He says some pretty provocative statements in there as it relates to ministry. But he said that Jesus had no formal school, no seminaries, no outlined course of studies, no periodic membership classes in which he enrolled his followers. None of these highly organized procedures considered so necessary today entered at all into his ministry. Having called his men Jesus made it a practice to be with them. This was the essence of his training program; just letting his disciples follow him.
And so that’s really, you know, with some of those concepts in mind and with a lot of things that we couldn’t do, we found ourselves discipling groups and releasing them to be able to share right from the very beginning.
Q. It’s interesting you mentioned that you figured out some things that we think are essential here in Canada were not as essential overseas and still church happened.
A. Absolutely. I’ve actually got to the point now where I wasn’t there fifteen years ago but now I’m kind of thinking yes, if we start seminaries, write courses, author books, do all of these sorts of things that we think are so essential to ministry but we fail to make disciples, I don’t know that we’ve actually been doing what we’re supposed to be doing. My thought patterns have grown over the last number of years.
Q. And so are mine. Stepping into this role even two years ago thinking through okay, how do we get more churches started, how do we get more churches started ---
And I think that’s still an important part but I think we need to back it up and say we actually need to make disciples. We need new people coming to faith, making disciples who make disciples who make disciples who make disciples. I think more churches are going to emerge. So that’s what we want to talk about today, those DMM’s and how are they different from traditional church planting in Canada.
A. Yes. I think they are very different and I think if you are going to take a DMM approach it is quite different from our traditional church planting model that we look at. In some ways if you’re going to look at it from a scriptural standpoint, I think we oftentimes think from a Pauline approach and we’re looking at ecclesiology, we’re looking at how we do this and how we structure that, we build that, versus in some ways, the messianic approach that Jesus gave us of rabbinical discipleship. And I think it’s not an either/or because it is obviously a both-and. But I do think and maybe this is a little bit ---
I’m wondering can we actually plant churches without making disciples? Is it possible to plant a church and we fail to make disciples? If we think of the church as buildings ---
Q. It’s a good question because I think right now our ecclesiology needs to be front and center as we think through the future. But I think you’re right. I think there are some churches that ---
I encourage our young planters, well, all planters for that matter, that you are planting a church not a worship gathering, which means that discipleship is front and center.
A. That’s great.
Q. So keep unpacking that. DMM’s, how are they different? They are different…?
A. Yes. So the approach would be ---
Let me say this. I’m no expert on DMM. We tripped into some of the principles. I’ve done some studies on it. There are others who are much better qualified on this and who have had much greater experience. My understanding is you might be able to hear a little bit from Ethiopia and they have seen some incredible movement stuff happen there so you’ll be able to hear about that later.
Q. Yes.
A. But the principle, you know, is (1) you start with a network and you enter that network to begin to disciple that group rather than discipleship being a solitary individual thing which you begin after evangelism and that person has made a commitment to faith. You begin to shift the thinking and you start with a network. You enter that network and you begin to disciple that group focusing on scripture alone. So what you explicitly do not do is start with a core group of believers who are committed to running the programs of the church and then trying to add non-believers onto that. It is actually saying you can plant a church with not-yet believers. So start with not-yet believers and enter their network. In some ways it’s this going rather than this attractional model. So we’re saying we’re going to go and we’re going to place ourselves within that network in an incarnational way and then we’re going to be able to see a church planted amongst that group of people.
Q. I just need you to say that again. I don’t even know if you remember what you said but just this idea of starting a church with people far from God.
A. When I went to North Africa we ended up in a province where there were a million people. There was one believer.
Q. Was it you?
A. Obviously. Well, in addition to our family.
Q. Okay.
A. Again, local population. So obviously we can’t start a church because there are no believers. So what do you do? Well, actually you just begin to disciple. When did the disciples become saved? Or was it just come follow me and on the journey there was this incredible growth so beginning to disciple from the very beginning, not waiting for them to make a statement of this is what I believe and orthodoxy and now we can begin to disciple but actually just beginning from the very beginning. So planting churches amongst a network of people who are not yet believers.
Q. That’s a game changer to think that through because now anybody can be a church planter.
I was in a cadre with some other multiplying leaders and they had someone from the Middle East come over, walk into the church and say because they had four hundred or five hundred people in the church the Sunday he arrived. Pastor, look you have five hundred church planters! It’s just this idea of what happens if we just started planting people, maybe instead of thinking planting churches what if we started planting people in culture and maybe churches ---
They plant people who plant the gospel and churches emerge. I know it’s a bit ---
Again, I’m with you. It’s both-and. It is not either/or. But I don’t see much of this model happening so I’m excited to chat with you about this.
Do you see disciple-making movements a bigger part of the future in Canada, and if you do, why do you think that?
A. I think that now more than ever we should be seeing DMM as part of our future here in Canada and particularly amongst the PAOC. We have been talking about a thousand, five hundred disciple-making communities because that’s what we would desire to see as an expression of the PAOC. And so can we really say that’s what it’s about as that individual who walked in that church said there are four hundred or five hundred church planters here because we believe that every single person is a disciple who is making disciples.
Q. Right, right.
A. And then that is the way that we view it. Why do I think now is the time? Because I actually think that in the same way that I ended up in a context fifteen years ago where there were a lot of things we couldn’t do, for the first time because of Covid there are a lot of things we can’t do right now here in Canada.
Q. True.
A. It is very interesting hearing the conversation that is going on. I feel that we are considering again what church is. We’re in flux right now because many of the things that we considered to be essential expressions of church gathering together in a building on a Sunday morning at this hour are no longer part of it. So I appreciate some of the conversations you’ve been a part of, even in terms of oh, do we have a physical church with a digital footprint or do we have a digital church with a physical footprint? We’re asking ourselves what are the essential elements of the church? This is an opportunity to be able to really focus again on disciples who make disciples.
I think it is also harder for people to meet people and then to invite them to church right now, that whole idea. I actually looked at CTV and I don’t necessarily agree with it, but they were listing the public health experts. They ranked all the Coronavirus risk by activity. Well attending a church service is listed as the second-most risky activity to do.
Q. Wow.
A. So how are you supposed to go to your neighbour and say, look, our church has opened up again. Would you come and risk coming to be able to hear the gospel? We actually have got to realize that this is a moment where the kingdom of God is going to advance. Inasmuch as there is this idea that over this Covid season a lot of the cities that had a lot of vehicles moving around, that pollution level has completely dissipated. It looks very different from outer space. I think if we were to put a spiritual lens on things right now I think we have seen a significant change as well in the midst of Covid and solitude and sometimes maybe the loneliness there’s this cry out to God. I believe the spirit of God is at work in Canada and around the world and that we’re going to see great things happen for the kingdom in the coming months.
What is church? And how are we going to actually best be the body of Christ and see the advancement of the kingdom in the post-Covid season that we’re going to be walking into?
Q. One of the things that we’ve chatted about, too, kind of offline was this idea of engaging laity again and not just relying on clergy, paid clergy, to do the ministry but there would be a releasing of laity to function as the church. So this decentralization has forced us again to just push spiritual formation back to homes, back to smaller settings and I think that’s a positive thing. I think this is the Holy Spirit using a very painful crisis on so many levels.
I watched last night on CTV News that divorce rates ---
Lawyers are saying they are receiving so many more calls and people are considering it because the economy is causing problems and just being at home together, raising children and all the stresses that come with that. There is, of course, the physical crisis. There are so many things happening.
We have an opportunity here. God’s going to use this decentralization maybe to send us to those crises and spirit-empowered, full of faith, to see what God would do. I’m excited for this.
So how do we take these DMM principles, mindsets and strategies, how do we work that in now to our Canadian church planting vision and strategies?
A. One scripture that I love to go to is Luke 10. In Luke chapter 10 you see Jesus appointing seventy and sending them two-by-two ahead of him to every city and place where he himself was going to come. You can see this plan that Jesus had and he sends them out. But it’s incredible to look at the way in which he sent them out. So in some of the DMM training that I’ve done, you know, how do we do church planting with a DMM mindset strategy, if you want to look at a scripture it’s this one right here, Luke chapter 10, where it talks about how you go about it. It’s this person of peace idea that you go to one individual who already is in relationship within a community of people so here it was definitely within a village context or a small city context.
In our urban setting it may be within a network of people. It may be within certain subsets and going and finding that person of peace where you’re going and all of a sudden they welcome you in and you step into their world. And as you do that you bring peace and you bring blessing and you begin to bring the good news. And there is the healing, there is the freedom from demonic, there is the ushering in of the kingdom and you can read later on about how Jesus responded when they came back and they were all excited about this. He says: “Rejoice that your names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.”
But Luke chapter 10 really captures some of those principles for DMM. So it’s about us kind of taking that kind of a mentality in our church planting and going into those networks of people.
It is also about reducing the barriers. There are all sorts of things that we do in the way we advance the kingdom or plant churches or make disciples that become barriers and when we remove those I believe we can actually be more biblical. But as you mentioned, the priesthood of all believers. What would it look like if the laity was equipped? We believe that. That’s a value that we have. But the question would be to what degree are we willing to go on that?
Let me give you a snapshot. We have one of our workers in RAN who is in Asia and she’s been doing DMM with a group of four students. So because of Covid she’s not able to meet with them physically but she’s meeting with them on Zoom. As she’s doing that she says okay, I’m going to teach this to you, and one of the principles is you need to go and share that with somebody else. News: Most of those four are not yet believers and yet they are bearing witness to the truth that she is teaching them and they are in contexts where – one of them – the person they always share with is their dad because they don’t actually have a large circle. They’ve been kind of confined as well so sharing with his dad. Another one with her mom. So the truth is being shared by not yet believers with those who are even further away.
Q. Crazy.
A. So it is this idea what is it to be able to release. So some of the barriers that we talk about within the DMM mindset and strategy is discipling can start ---
Don’t make disciples post evangelism. Just begin with the whole idea of let’s study scripture together. Start with groups, not with individuals because you don’t have the barrier of having to overcome going from one to the other. Talk about immediate obedience so that’s one of those things, you know, Jesus said, make disciples, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. It’s not just about head knowledge. It’s not just orthodoxy. It’s not orthopraxy. What are we doing?
So also being able to share right from the start. People don’t need to accomplish something before they can take the truth that they’ve learned and share it.
Q. That’s true.
A. Let others be leaders right from the very beginning. And then there are other things that being overseas we realized we don’t need to set barriers of having to lecture with three-point alliterated sermons or having a building, even. Or having technology that is uncommon, you know. You have to have a PowerPoint presentation. In an overseas context well then in order to be able to have church you have to have a projector and you have to have a computer. You have to be able to do PowerPoint so eliminating those and making it actually contextually appropriate.
Those things may not be an issue in some places here in Canada but overseas they were. So trying to remove those so there are no barriers. There can be this incredible exponential growth in the kingdom as you release laity, as we release everyone who is a disciple to make disciples.
Q. Yes. One of the things that I think some of our church planters look to certain models because they create large crowds right away, which then again bring finances in and are able to pay the pastor maybe a part- or full-time wage, close to the beginning and that’s fine. That’s great. But if there was another lane it would be the bi-vocational or the co-vocational lane. I think one of the reasons why maybe DMM isn’t as popular is it isn’t going to pay the bills. You have to find another way to cover those expenses. Obviously you are going to take care of your family. It’s a step of faith. I get that. I think still and I have said it before and I’ll keep saying it. Bi-vocational and co-vocational is a big part of our future as it relates to living, like you said, less attractional-more sent.
What are your thoughts about the bi-vocational co-vocational thinking and mindset and model?
A. Absolutely. I’m glad you brought it up. I think this is one of those times that we go to Paul and we say look at Paul. In our context many of us end up with this bi-vocational or we have another reason by which we’re entering the restricted countries that we’re going into. So it might be teaching or it might be starting a business or it might be NGO work or whatever it would be. It is essential for us to be able to get there.
Paul also had something else. It’s where the whole idea of tentmaker comes from. So we use that to describe today what some of us do overseas. But actually that’s what the apostle Paul was. He was a tentmaker. He didn’t have an issue of visas. He wasn’t like well, I can’t get there. He didn’t have to be a tentmaker to be able to go there. He actually had this free pass along the Roman Empire to be able to go where he wanted. So why would he do that? Well, we do have some snippets into it. One is he was an apostle and he had rights to those funds. He goes through this argument but he chose not to be a burden to those who were to be able to receive the gift. So he talks about that.
But the other thing I think is when you are breaking new ground identity can actually be quite significant. When we find ourselves living amongst and relating only to Christians, how are we going to be able to see the kingdom of God advance amongst those who are not yet believers? We have to be able to find a way to be able to relate to them. One of the absolute best ways and the apostle Paul showed it, I think he was known as the tentmaker. He was with Priscilla and Aquilla. It wasn’t like oh, the apostle Paul. They would probably go; the apostle? You mean the tentmaker Paul? Yes. That’s who it is. So he had this very common identity that people knew him.
What he did was absolutely apostolic but it was who he was known as and I think there is this element, not just for financial reasons or for accessibility reasons but actually for this ability to be able to live alongside people and to be a model of the life of Christ.
Q. And maybe we don’t look at it as a burden. It’s like oh, I have to be bi-vocational. But actually look at it as an opportunity for mission and that’s that word, that co-vocational idea coming. Yes, you may work at a bank and plant a church or a DMM but that bank moment, that time you are connecting with community, is just as important as when you preach on Zoom or lead an Alpha. All of it is just ministry every minute, every moment. There’s no sacred and secular. You bring the kingdom with you wherever you go. Imagine if we could get that thinking into all of our lives and into all of those who call themselves followers of Christ and just embed them and enculture. It’s just like you’re a light in the darkness. I know I’m preaching to the choir.
A. Absolutely! Work was not a result of the fall.
Q. Right.
A. Work was a divine gift to humanity pre-Fall. That’s what God gave us so now yes, we experience work by the sweat of our brow and there are elements of it that have been tarnished, but it was a good gift. And for us to think that work is the evil that we have to put up with or a difficulty or the challenge that we have to put up with so we can do the sacred things, it’s actually all God’s. It’s all sacred.
Q. Yes, everything. It’s amazing.
Again, we’ve been a Movement. You know this. PAOC. But there’s other Movements that are older obviously than us but in Canada last year we celebrated a hundred years of being organized at least. (Laughter) We were around before but 1919-2019, we’ve got lots of existing churches, close to 1,100, climbing to 1,100, how do we build this DMM mindset into the DNA of existing churches? I think it was part of who we were back then when we first started. We’ve moved away from that. I think we need to get that DNA back.
How do you think we can do that? Speak to some pastors out there who are leading churches, leading some existing churches in Canada.
A. Absolutely. Even within IM we’ve been on a process of reimagine and we’ve been talking about this, you know, recapturing that pioneer apostolic root of who we have been and we still are. But I would caution and say it could be disruptive. I would say that. If one is to say let’s get the mindset of DMM into the existing church it could be disruptive. But that doesn’t mean it’s not from God. So beginning with prayer is actually one of the very ---
Q. Thank you!
A. –fundamental principles of DMM. We never see a Movement happen anywhere in the world unless it is in response to the spirit of God moving in response to fervent perpetual prayer. It’s not the normal kind of prayer. It’s this fervent perpetual desperate kind of prayer. God stirs our hearts to pray and then he responds to the prayers that we have. That’s the way he works and that’s still a mystery to me. But there have been studies that have been done saying okay, take a hundred people who have seen movements happen around the world where there’s a thousand baptisms or ten thousand new church plants and just incredible exponential growth, what is the one commonality. The only thing they could find that was common amongst every single one was fervent perpetual prayer.
Q. Okay. Let’s just pause there. I couldn’t agree more. I’m asking the Lord these days for a bigger burden to pray. I don’t want it to be a religious routine to think of my neighbours and oh I guess I should just cross this off the list. I’m asking the Lord for a burden in prayer. I don’t know what else to do. I’m so burdened I have to go to prayer. I couldn’t agree more. I feel like we as a Movement have to get back to prayer. I’m not saying we don’t pray. I’m not saying we don’t think it is important. I’m just saying when you mentioned that fervent persistent prayer it just hit me. I felt convicted when you said that. We have to get back to that.
Do you have any thoughts on how we do that?
A. What you just said there. As I said it there was this conviction inside of you. Do you know why? — Because I believe that’s the spirit of God that is drawing us. And if we would simply respond to his drawing into that place of prayer then I think the spirit will take care of it. If we can say yes, we need to tarry, we need to wait, we need to allow the presence of the Holy Spirit to come upon us afresh again so that we would be those who would bear witness, that we would do that, that we would begin to see some incredible things happen in our hearts and our lives and then also in the world that he has called us into.
Q. So I just want to stop there. I know you have some other thoughts. Obviously let’s start with prayer. We can infuse that some of that DNA, those principles. Anything else that we can do to get this DMM mindset into churches?
A. I’m going to share one thought and then I’m going to give another quote from Robert Coleman. I think that our small groups we need to think about them not just as Bible studies for those who are already believers but that we begin to think about those as the means by which we see the advancement of the kingdom. It’s a very different mindset from what I experienced years ago. People who had been believers for ten years, fifteen years, thirty years and doing scriptural studies together is very encouraging. Fellowship is rich. It is wonderful. But our small groups don’t just need to be that. If we can take our small groups and allow that to be the way we get into community, taking some of that DMM idea of I’m going to go and place myself and build relationships within a network to be able to disciple a group of people, that’s a small group. I think that sometimes our Sunday service we say why don’t you come and listen to the preacher so that you can hear the gospel message. I think that in some ways our Christian culture as we progress in time becomes even more foreign. I’ve heard it from the mission field and places where people are not very familiar with church. You bring somebody in and afterwards they go that was very interesting. The Karaoke was really quite good. They’re talking about the worship service. There isn’t ---
It’s the unchurched, you know. Our culture seems somewhat strange but you begin to do that in a small group relational setting and begin to look at scripture it becomes a whole different entry point where yes, the worship service later becomes a point of celebration but can we begin to see that.
The quote is this. This why I say it can be disruptive. One must decide where he wants his ministry to count: the momentary applause of popular recognition or in the reproduction of his life in a few chosen men. This is from the 1960’s so pardon the fact that it is saying men only. Obviously it is for everyone. Who will carry on his work after he has gone? “Life in a few chosen men who will carry on his work after he has gone.” That’s the model that Jesus had. Some would look at him and say wow, like he had twelve. One of them denied him. Judas. Not a great track record. And yet that was it. That’s what he left behind.
Q. When you bring that up it just give me this thought. If God could be proud of something, if Jesus could be proud of his ministry, would he be proud of the miracles he did, the crowds that followed, would he be proud about his prayer life, you know. Would he be proud about being anonymous for the better part of thirty years? What would he look at? I think he would look at those twelve; some of them teenagers, you know, looking at them and go: look what they did.
A. Yes.
Q. When I look back at my life and what I’m most proud of it’s having a healthy marriage obviously, but looking at my kids, looking at some of my spiritual kids, students over the years, leaders over the years that are just excelling. That’s an interesting thought to me today. Thanks, Jeff, for bringing that up.
Why does the church in Canada need to move in this direction? Let me maybe ask it a different way. What happens if we don’t?
A. Well, I think if we don’t move in this direction God will find somebody else who is willing to step into what he is planning on doing by the power of his spirit. I think in my life I have experienced that. When we got to move into that place in North Africa we weren’t the first people that God asked but I was very thankful that some other people actually said no because we had the joy of being there and seeing the church advance.
Why should we move in this direction? Because we love God and because we love God we keep his commands. And the Great Commission is not for missionaries only. Matthew 28:19 is not about going.
Q. It’s for everybody.
A. It’s wherever you go, as you go, and the emphasis is on ‘make disciples’. So I believe that we have to allow that scripture to be the guide for all of us as believers. Jesus didn’t leave it for missionaries alone. He left it for everyone to make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And I think because the current situation warrants it.
Q. Yes.
A. Our country of Canada is in a great place of spiritual need and I think the only ---
For me DMM is one way for us to be able to get outside the walls of our church to be able to see the kingdom advance. So because of that I think we have to do it. And because the reality of what Covid has brought upon us, I think again we kind of tripped into it because we found ourselves in a restricted context where there were lots of things we couldn’t do. Canada all of a sudden has a few things also that it can’t do that used to be what people understood to be church. So it’s the current situation of Covid. It’s the incredible spiritual need and it’s our passion to live in such a way that we say God I love you to the degree that I’m willing to follow your commands.
Q. Well said. Thanks, Jeff for jumping on today and sharing your heart with us.
I was wondering and I don’t know if I’ve done this yet with all of our podcasts, I think we’re up to forty episodes. Maybe I should be doing this. But I’m wondering if you would just pray for all those who are listening. Maybe there are some out there that are feeling the call to missions as you talk about that internationally. Maybe there are some that are feeling a call to their neighbourhood, a call to their workplace, maybe feeling that they need to shift some things in their church. Maybe there’s a church planter out there who was really sold on one model and now you’ve brought some other things to light that maybe the Holy Spirit is speaking. I’m just wondering if you could pray over us before we go today.
So if you’re out there listening would you just be open to what the spirit is saying to you today because this is just too important for us to not, like you mentioned before, respond. We have to respond to the spirit. So Jeff, why don’t you lead us in prayer as we close.
A. Thanks for the opportunity. Father we come before you and we thank you. You are King of kings and Lord of lords. You love us so incredibly and thank you God that you have asked us to join you in mission, whether that is in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria or to the uttermost ends of the earth. And God, we are so privileged to be able to partner with you, to be called to work alongside you in what you are doing by our spirit. So we begin by asking that you would draw us into that place of prayer. God, we do not want to be doing things that are not birthed in prayer. God, we don’t want to be doing things that are just our own ideas or strategies or tactics but we want something that is birthed by your spirit and it is birthed in prayer so that we are aligning ourselves with your plans and your purposes and your will. God, I thank you that your desire in your heart is for this nation and for every nation that there would be those who come to life-saving knowledge of who you are and step into relationship. God, may we also find ourselves having that same heartbeat. God, for our neighbours, God, for those who are in our city, for the newcomer or for the one who has been here for decades, God I pray that you would allow us to begin to see the fields white unto harvest. And God where we have failed to see it before and where we have simply looked at the world from a very secular physical point of view, God, may we put on the kind of vision that allows us to see the people around us from your perspective. God, that we would see what you desire to do in their hearts, God, to see how you are already at work in their lives and there are others in the journey of their lives they have spoken to them and God may we find our place in obedience to you to be able to see those individuals come and draw closer to you. God, I pray that you would allow us to be those who are honouring you, bringing you glory because we also are making disciples. God, that we would be able to see an incredible harvest within this nation and around the world. God, I thank you for what you are doing by your spirit in these days as you are calling us to prayer. God, in the silence and the solitude of some of the moments that we’ve have in Covid, you have allowed us to find ourselves on our knees calling out to you and you have drawn us by your spirit. May we continue to respond not just in this season but as we transition into the next so we will be able to see what it is that you are about to do and may we align ourselves with that. God, I thank you. God, I thank you for the vision of multiplication. God, I thank you that you are the one who desires to see sixty, eighty, a hundredfold and may we see it in our day. In Jesus’ name. Amen.
Q. Amen. Thanks so much, Jeff for that and for your heart and for what you are continuing to do. You are a friend of the Multiply Network so hopefully we can have you on again. Stick around. I look forward to future connections. Thanks again for jumping on.
A. Thanks so much.
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