In this interview we chat with Dr. Bill Wilson about what it takes to reach people far from God, how to stay the course in so much disruption and discouragement and so much more. Over 200,000 kids from all over the world meet weekly in Sunday schools and are looking to start even more in 2021 in new countries they haven't been yet. Take some time to glean from his over 50 years of ministry experience and let the stories he shares grip our hearts again for a renewed passion for all those far from God.
In this interview we chat with Dr. Bill Wilson about what it takes to reach people far from God, how to stay the course in so much disruption and discouragement and so much more. Over 200,000 kids from all over the world meet weekly in Sunday schools and are looking to start even more in 2021 in new countries they haven't been yet. Take some time to glean from his over 50 years of ministry experience and let the stories he shares grip our hearts again for a renewed passion for all those far from God.
Transcript of Podcast by Multiply Network
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December 2020 – Bill Wilson
Paul Fraser Thanks, Pastor Bill, so much for jumping on today! Such an honor to have you!
Bill Wilson Thank you, sir. Well, wouldn't have missed it - Been looking forward to it. Thank you.
Paul Fraser Grateful that our friend Mike Miller set up this conversation. And so looking forward to chatting with you. Why don't you just update us on what you're working on these days? You know, some of the things that fill your week to week schedule, for those that maybe don't know what you're doing these days in the big city of New York?
Bill Wilson Sure. Well, it's been like this for everybody. This whole year has been it's been a very tough time. I know a lot of people have just kind of almost semi-retired in ministry, at least in the States. But for us, we've seen it as a real opportunity to do some things that normally we wouldn't even be able to do without the virus kind of pushing us and pressing us. I mean, I'm in the process now of writing two more books. I still go out and preach every weekend. After I'm done here in Brooklyn and our time here, I'm on the plane at places that are open in the States, going out to preach there. And so there's been, as I said, opportunities that have kind of made themselves available to us. And we just said, look, let's just go after it. Because if there was ever a need, particularly here in the city -- I mean, even yesterday, again, the mayor has closed down the school system here again. The food situation here is probably getting more critical now, because you guys know, it's a domino thing. One thing happens and it just puts other things into motion. And so we've opted to just keep our head on straight, keep moving forward, taking the things that we have here and as well as talking to other people just like this. Next year is going to be, I would say, for the 50 years that I've been in ministry, next year has the potential to be one of the most extraordinary years that we've ever had. Countries in Africa, like South Sudan, Niger, different parts up in Somalia, that have opened to us because they've seen what's happened with the countries, the cities, that we have been doing Metro Sunday School in across Africa. And now it's caught. People see it. Government officials have seen it. So now, doors that were not even close to being opened now seem to be opening. So we're taking this time to do the follow-up, do the contact, make the connections. So hopefully by March of next year, we're going to be able to hit the ground running. So, it's an exciting time.
Paul Fraser It's amazing!
Bill Wilson Yeah, plus I just got a box of books from the U.K -- I get all my books from U.K. -- of Joseph Parker, which may be a familiar name to some of the folks that are watching. So I still read a book every week, because I do so much outside speaking and I love Parker's stuff. So, some guys went out and found me some old Parker message books. So yeah, it's been a busy time.
Paul Fraser Well, yeah, I just, you know, reading your book, 'Whose Child is This?' --
Bill Wilson Yes, sir.
Paul Fraser -- Which, I'd encourage people to read your story. It's inspiring. It's real. It's honest. It's, you know, everyone sees the ministry today and goes, wow, you know, that's what I want to have. They don't want to pay the price, necessarily, to get there.
Bill Wilson Well, it's the joke that we laugh here, on staff in New York. It's taken me 50 years to be the overnight success.
Paul Fraser Yes. (laughter).
Bill Wilson Until you've actually read the book -- I mean, it's in 30 languages now, all over the world. And really, the book and me, you know, being on television and speaking at conferences, has really put the ministry, maybe not so much me, but has put the impact and the influence of the ministry on the front page. I mean, we were selected by an Asian Sunday School Association as one of the ten most influential missions organizations in the world. But, you're right, that didn't just happen. And the book, I think I think it paints a good picture for people that want to know, what does it take to do this. I tell people, you've got what it takes, but it's going to take all you've got. And that's what separates the liars from the believers.
Paul Fraser Yeah. No, that's true. And one of the things even, you know, chatting with you before and now recording this, you're just not sitting on your hands, you know, waiting for something to happen.
Bill Wilson No sir, no.
Paul Fraser You guys are working hard at it. And just, you know, hearing your story, like I said, just encourage people to get that book and read it. It's quite impacting. I was quite moved by it. And lots of things kind of jumped out at me. And of course, right off the top: passion. You have a passion for children. You have a passion for people. And you have this urgency for the great commission.
Paul Fraser And you said the need is the call. Can you explain that?
Bill Wilson Yeah. Because I speak at so many colleges -- with the Ph.D. that's broadened it out, not just Bible Schools now, but secular colleges and universities as well. One of the principles that I really try to drive home is: If people don't know what your passion is, you don't have one. I want to say that again, because I think right at the top of this thing, it's very important that people understand that. You don't have to talk to me very long to know exactly what I do, why I do it, the longevity behind it. In the midst of the shootings, the stabbings, the murders and everything else, we are doing more. I'm doing more now on the field, on the ground, at 72 years old than I did 30, or even 20 years ago. Because the passion. The more I'm out there --.
Bill Wilson It's got to go back -- and you'll understand this, Paul -- It's got to go back to Thomas. He never really grasped the resurrection. It didn't make sense to him. He couldn't get it. Until...when? Until he touched the wounds in the body of Christ. And when you get close enough to literally touch the wounds in the body of Christ, suddenly something begins to happen. Something begins to click in the heart and gut of some guys and gals. That, it may have been just head knowledge. It may have been, book knowledge, may have been just some kind of, of somebody else speaking to them. But when you allow yourself to touch the wounds in the body of Christ at large, suddenly that which was abstract, which didn't seem like it was even possible, suddenly something happens. And for me -- I mean, it wasn't even an hour ago, sitting around this table, right here where I'm talking to you, I had two young men from Chicago. Came here. They're going to start Metro Sunday School in Chicago. And, you know, Chicago right now - it's tough times. Tough city.
Paul Fraser Really tough. Yeah.
And so we talked and talked, and there was all kinds of reasons why - Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, this; Yeah, that. It's covid. People are scared. - It's amazing to me how a spirit of fear, at this point, has gripped even church folk. I don't get it. I mean, I've had covid. I've recovered. I still drive the bus. I still preach every week. I'll put my little mask on and get out there and go do it. But as I was talking with these young men and I was a little tough on them, and I kind of got in their face, but they needed it. And they got. And the Spirit of God came down here and clicked with these guys. I said, Guys, how bad do you want this? How bad do you want to make this happen? If it's burning in your bones, the fire of the Holy Ghost will move you. It'll press you. It'll push you in ways that passion in you - and it's either real or it's not. And if it is, then let's get to it. If people do not know what your passion is, if they can't tell by being around you, by having a conversation with you, if your life doesn't exude that passion, guess what? You don't have it. You don't have it. And that's what separates the liars from the buyers in this thing.
Paul Fraser Yeah.
Bill Wilson At this age, even after 50 years, I am more excited about what's going on already laying out the new countries we're going in to. Come on. We got an invitation from the Israeli government to start a Metro Sunday School on the Gaza Strip. How many people do you know, get an invitation to do some good in Gaza? It's time, it's time.
Paul Fraser Well, I know one. I know one now. (laughter).
Bill Wilson Well, there you go! There you go.
Bill Wilson I've always said, Paul, big doors open on very small hinges. And I want to talk about that for just a second, because I need everybody to get this. When that man picked me up off the street, where my mother left me when I was a child. You know my story. I sat in that corner for three days. No food, no water. Until one ordinary Christian stopped. He was actually on his way to the hospital to visit his own son, who was dying of leukemia. And yet out of his own problem, his own situation, he stops, puts his hand on my shoulder, asks me, are you OK? And I used to stutter really bad when I was little. I tried to explain to him my mother was gone. I'm just hungry. And immediately -- He didn't have to go to a conference. He didn't have to read a book on homiletics, hermeneutics, or anything else. The minute he knew my situation, he got some food and water. He got on the phone and five hours after this meeting on a street corner, he's led me in a church van, sends me to an Assembly of God Sunday school camp. That's where I heard the story of Jesus for the first time. And something happened and it put my life on a whole different path. And now here, here you and I are. All these years later, I only say this to you and to all that are watching, because that man that day -- that was in 1960; I was 12 years old -- he didn't know. He didn't know what I would do. He didn't know what he was about to set into motion. He had his own situations. But. How many of us pray God open a big door, give me a big opportunity, I'll do this, I'll do that. Big doors open on very small hinges. It's the little things God puts in front of us, I believe. And I've watched it for theses fifty years, almost every day, those little opportunities, those little things that -- call them whatever you want to call them -- the little things that if we're astute enough, sharp enough to move on those little things, those needs, those opportunities, that develops a pattern of being quick. That's why you've heard me say the need is the call. Of course it is. If you see a need to them and you can fill that need, that's the call of God for you today, right here, right now. He did not know what I would go on to do. He did not know that because that one simple act of getting me some food and water, sponsoring me -- he didn't even have enough money, $17.50 back in 1960 -- to send me to the AG camp. He had to borrow the $17.50. He didn't know, but he saw a need. Guess that was the call of God for him that day. He responded, put something into motion. The big door opened on a very small hinge. The need's the call. He saw the need. You saw the need. He saw the little boy that nobody wanted. Nobody wanted me. And yet, now all these years later, you and I are talking here. What? How does this work? You see a need? It may seem insignificant at the time. But that big door that we're all hoping for, praying for, believing for, it opens through a succession of needs that we recognize. Little. The little hinge that opens, you understand. You understand what I'm saying.
Paul Fraser Well, I wish I understood it to the level you did, because I think sometimes we think we're passionate about something, but then it gets too difficult.
Bill Wilson Sure it does. Sure it does.
Paul Fraser And, you know, you kind of quit too soon. The passion. And there's obviously a burden. And to me, if you don't have a burden, you're going to quit too soon. You know, you've got to be -- Like that need is the call. You're talking to a bunch of church planters and multipliers. I'm going to switch up the questions just a bit. And I wanted to talk -- Since we're talking about this perseverence piece, you said that your commitment needs to be stronger than your emotions.
Bill Wilson Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Paul Fraser What do you mean by that?
Bill Wilson Well, do you want me to give you the church answer, or do you want me to give you the real answer?
Paul Fraser I think most people -- I think people probably want the real answer. (Laughter)
Bill Wilson (Laughter) I would agree. I would agree. Well folks, all folks, live on emotion. It's all about how we feel. How do we feel? How is the church service? How do you feel? How do we feel during this Covid time? I get it. It's very easy to be ruled and run by your emotions. If I allowed my emotions to run me. You ever see that movie Inside Out? It's a great kid's movie?
Paul Fraser Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bill Wilson What a great --- Some of you watching, you haven't seen it. You need to watch. You need to watch that movie, because it sums it up so well. Being dominated, run, by how you feel. Because it changes. We all know that your emotions change every day. I mean, that's what the average preacher, when they quit, they quit on Monday. Why? Because preachers hate everybody on Monday. They're mad, they're upset. Something didn't go right. Well, let's the time when I'm out. And that's the worst time. You can't do it. We live on emotions. I preached a message years ago: Don't make a decision with a broken decision-maker. There are times in all of our lives that are decision-maker is broken.
Paul Fraser Right.
Bill Wilson And I went through a whole litany of times. When you're upset, when you're sick, when you're angry, when you're this, when you're that. And yet, inevitably, it's the time that most guys and gals make decisions - life-altering decisions - that normally they live to regret it. Your commitment has got to be stronger than your emotions. It has to be. If I was led by my emotions, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'd have been gone. You've read the book. You know. When I got my eye busted up, blind in my eye. Finding one of our staff members gang-raped on top of a building, here in Brooklyn. One of our staff members dead. They found him on a Sunday morning. And I've noticed that when the enemy comes at us, he never comes at us with just one thing. Because most of us are tougher than just one thing. He comes at you with several things -- Boom! Boom! Boom! -- and it's all designed to get you to quit. That's what it's designed to do, to get you to quit. Because if we quit, the enemy wins. Game's over, that's it. And we've got to get this in. The best revenge is perseverance. The best revenge. What at this point -- and you know just enough about me now, you're going to understand what I say here.
Paul Fraser Yeah.
Bill Wilson What would make me quit at this point in my life? What? Honestly, friend-to-friend, I can't think of one thing that would make me quit. I've had so many diseases. I've lost track of them. Shot twice. Three plane crashes. Thrown off the building. Been lost in the jungle.
Paul Fraser It sounds like Paul the Apostle. (laughter)
Bill Wilson --- and this is work with Christians.
Paul Fraser (Laughter) Sounds like Paul the Apostle.
Bill Wilson Well. (Laughter).
Bill Wilson Since you brought that up, I got to tell you this, because you'll laugh. I was going on a tanker, going from Louisiana down to Haiti a couple of years ago. And I thought, oh, this is great. We're going to go on this big tanker. We're bringing food; bringing a Sidewalk Sunday School truck. I thought, let's bring some people. We'll take a couple of days to go to Haiti. Let's have a little seminar. Nobody would go with me on this ship. I thought, this doesn't make sense. Why? And I started asking. They said, are you kidding me? The only thing that has not happened to you is you've never been shipwrecked. We're not going with you on a boat, if you get on the boat, we know that thing's going down. We ain't having it. So, (laughter) you know, you want to go with me? You and I'll go on a tanker run somewhere. We'll be alright.
Paul Fraser (laughter) We'll be alright.
Bill Wilson It's that realizing that once you've been through enough things, the enemy's thrown his best shot at you.
Paul Fraser Yeah.
Bill Wilson Well then what? What? At 72, I'm --.
Bill Wilson My goal now, I'm going to finish stronger. And I believe you'll understand what I'm saying here. I'm going to finish stronger than I did when I started. That's my commitment.
Paul Fraser That's the goal, isn't it?
Bill Wilson Yes, sir!
Paul Fraser That we're more passionate --.
Bill Wilson It should be!
Paul Fraser We're more passionate --
Bill Wilson It's supposed to be.
Paul Fraser Like, the longer you're with Christ, the idea should be that you're more like Him. You love the things He loves. You do, the things He does. You have the perseverance and passion that He has. This is fantastic. I want to switch gears to the pioneering side of what you've done.
Bill Wilson Yes.
Paul Fraser We've got lots of people listening who have started churches. I think they're encouraged by the perseverance. I think they're encouraged by your passion. But pioneering. I'm going to take you back to those early days of pioneering. What are some important things you'd like to share with those new church planters or those thinking about starting, as they think about starting a new work?
Bill Wilson You know, you obviously have pioneers. And then you also have settlers. For those that are planning on pioneering: If it was easy everybody would be doing it. That's not a big revelation. But when you begin to set your sights on a whole new world, understanding that now we have to go back again, even to perseverance. I mean, we have to. You cannot separate those two concepts. Because when I got hit with the brick - Guy came upon me, busted my cheek, broke out three of my teeth. And I was blind in this eye for three months. So whether you're blind in this eye because of a mugger, or whether you're up against a board that feels like a bunch of muggers and sometimes acts like a bunch of muggers, or you're trying to raise money from people that may or may not catch the vision, the end result still will be the same if you allow it to. Because it will press you. It'll stretch you. It'll pull everything out of you. I've told our staff here many times, if you sit by the river long enough, we'll see your enemies flow by. Because that's how it is. There will be people who will come against you. I was with Pastor Tommy Barnett, as you know, when he was in Davenport, Iowa, for five years. I was the Bus Director and the Sunday School Director. I was just with him a couple of weeks ago, just before his son was hurt badly in an accident. But him and I've spent a lot of time, even after he went to Phenix and I came to New York. We speak often. And looking back at those days when he was at West Side Assembly of God in Davenport, Iowa, and I had the honor of working with him there. It was tough - Trying to, not exactly pioneer a work when he went, but it kind of turned into it. Because even though it was a small church, when he went, even for him as a successful evangelist all those years, then came to be the pastor at West Side, half of the people left. It was too much. The change was too much. That drive of evangelism was too much. Having that great of a vision beyond what they were used to. So half of the folks that were there, which wasn't many to begin with, left. So basically, he ended up kind of pioneering that thing all over again. But he stayed true to that evangelistic, passionate vision and drive. And of course, for those that are familiar with the West Side Story, there back in the 70s and 80s, that became the fastest growing church in the United States. But he had all kinds of opportunities, in the midst of all the adversity, to walk away. Adversity will follow. It's going to be part of it. And I think younger guys and gals that are trying to pioneer work, and they look at bigger churches now, and they see some of these guys on TV with thousand dollar sneakers, and somehow get a bit of a skewed mindset of what missions really is. Of what pioneering is. Of what church planting really is. But it's staying true to that original vision, that New Testament drive, and realizing it's not going to be easy. It's not. But it takes that tenacity, that perseverance that stick to it, the whatever it takes. And when I tell people whatever it takes -- like I told these young men just an hour ago, right here at this table -- I said, you have to have the whatever it takes mentality. But what does that mean? It means exactly what I said: Whatever it takes. I had to travel every week to go raise the support to do this -- What was a home missions work. You want to talk about pioneering? We talk about pioneering all day. But still, after 40 years of living here in Brooklyn, I am still traveling every week preaching, raising support, getting the kids sponsored. I could have sat back years ago and just said, OK, Lord's blessed. Lord's opened doors. This is great. But no, that's not why I came here. The pioneering work was not designed for me to sell. It was designed to keep in that pioneering spirit. Hence, now these Sunday Schools have started all over the world. Two hundred and fifty thousand kids a week in Sunday School. Don't lose track of what moved you there in the first place. What moved you there will keep you there.
Paul Fraser [That's a great word. And, you know, your life, and ministry, and those that are around you. That pioneering doesn't end.
Bill Wilson No, it can't.
Paul Fraser You can't. You have you got to keep exploring. You got to keep expanding.
Bill Wilson It's got to keep burning in you.
Paul Fraser Yeah.
Bill Wilson And if it's burning in you, it drives you. It pushes you. It presses you. Going to Lagos next year. Going into Gaza next year. South Sudan, all of these places where people don't want to go. Please, please tell me nothing can be done for God there. Look at the map. Pick one, pick one. Can it be done there? Please tell me that and I will take the gospel there. I'll take a dart, throw it over my shoulder, and wherever it lands -- (claps) -- Let's go, in Jesus' name. Because when it burns in you --.
Paul Fraser Yeah.
Bill Wilson Burns in you. You move, and you keep moving.
Paul Fraser Yeah. It's funny you mention that. I recently shared a report to encourage us to multiply, and there was a couple ladies who, in Ajax, in Pickering -- so those in Canada would know, but it's in Ontario, around the Toronto area.1943. She talks about starting Sunday Schools there. Moms are receptive. It's a new town. Businesses are coming. The gospel needs to go here. And, I think it was Gladys Whaley said, Our hearts burn within us.
Bill Wilson There it is.
Paul Fraser People are telling us, come. Come. And then another lady that was working in the same area said, she goes, We must meet this challenge without delay. Without delay.
Bill Wilson The urgency.
Paul Fraser Yes!
Bill Wilson That urgency has to drive you. What year again was that?
Paul Fraser 1943. Twenty years later, a church had started. But it started with pioneers --
Bill Wilson Exactly.
Paul Fraser -- Planting seeds. Yes.
Bill Wilson Why do you think so many guys have come to New York, done the internship, got the principals, and -- again, it kicks back to principals. The power of those biblical principles. They get the principals, they go out and start Sunday schools and the Sunday schools become the church planting tool.
Paul Fraser Yeah.
Bill Wilson [They start these things and those principles still work today. You know, we're all looking for some trick technology, and we can barely get these stupid Zoom calls to work.
Paul Fraser (Laughter).
Bill Wilson No need to worry about the technology. We need to look at the biblical principles, the urgency of the hour, the openness of an opportunity.
Paul Fraser Right.
Bill Wilson Take those principles, move in, and these Sunday schools have become these church planting, pioneering mechanisms.
Paul Fraser Wow.
Bill Wilson But now, this church that these guys just started in Nepal. It was amazing. They were up on the top of the mountain. They bring the bricks in a truck at the bottom of the mountain, and all the little kids would grab a brick. They'd march them up the mountain, come back down, get another brick, go back up. And these are the kids that have given their life to Christ, through the Sunday School. Now they're the ones building the church.
Paul Fraser Literally. (laughter)
Bill Wilson It's unbelievable.
Paul Fraser Literally building the church.
Bill Wilson Absolutely.
Paul Fraser I want to jump into -- because one of the things I think that keeps a fire going in me, that keeps the fire going and you; keeps that urgency -- You talked about it earlier, with Thomas touching the wounds of Christ, the body of Christ.
Bill Wilson Yes.
Paul Fraser You talk about proximity and that compassion cannot be taught in a classroom, but it can be learned. And it has to be learned through proximity. Do you want to unpack that a little bit more? Because I think that's what drives; that's what gives you the burning passion. That's what gives you conviction. That's what keeps the urgency in the pioneering heart alive. Why don't you talk to us about how important that proximity is, as it relates to compassion?
Bill Wilson Well that all kind of came about when I was invited to teach at a university and they said, can you teach us how to have compassion? Any I'm going, No, compassion cannot be taught. But it can be learned. And that's how I opened the classroom setting. What does that mean? It means yeah, you can read all the books -- I have a very extensive library, here in New York, obviously. From the 1700s, from the 1800s, stuff you can't find online, can't get it anywhere. But when you look, whether it was these gals in 1943, or you go back to the preaching of Joseph Parker and some of these old missionaries; you talk about Adoniram Judson, Hudson Taylor, David Livingston, George Mueller, and the list is endless. But that was from late-1700s, 1800s. Why is it that we don't see that same burning now? Even from 1943. You don't find ladies, you don't find even men, with that kind of drive, and that kind of passion. Why is that? Because if you allow yourself to get out of the office, push your chair away, get away from your computer. Instead of taking a vacation in Cozumel or St.Lucas, go to somewhere that's going to break your heart. Go. Why do you think I take people to the Philippines every year? I intentionally take 50 people every March to the Philippines. Walk with me in the garbage dumps where we do Sunday school, where the kids wait for the garbage trucks to get leftovers, just uneaten food that's been tossed. They throw it in a pile, cook it; it's called pugpug, and they either eat it themselves or they sell it. Go with me to the North Cemetery, downtown Manila. Go with me. Walk with me. We do Sunday school in the cemetery. You got a thousand squatters that live amongst the tombs of the dead people. Every five years, these tombs can be broken open and recycled. So the skeletons are pulled up, thrown on the ground. So another dead person can be put in there and the skulls, the bones, are laying there. So you've got kids, literally, living. The last time, when I was there last year, three generations of people -- three -- that have lived in the North Cemetery. You've got kids living amongst the remains of dead people. And right in the middle of it, every Thursday, we do Metro Sunday School, in Jesus' name. Why? Because nobody wants to go there. Come then. Walk with me. Walk with me. See the little girl who had a hole in her stomach. See the little girl that we met last year, well, half of her intestines, literally, are hanging out because of a botched operation. The stitching broke. Her intestines are now -- this much of her intestines, Paul -- hanging out. They have to wrap up with a plastic bag; wrap up just for her so the intestines don't get cut. I'm waiting for the country to open so we can get her into a hospital. Please, come with me. When I watched a lady last year, see a little dead kid, laying in a coffin, and her parents - the little kids' parents - were gambling, playing cards in front of this coffin to raise money to bury the dead kid. And I saw this woman. She saw - and I saw it in her eyes, because I know what the look looks like. She asked, what's the story? Here's the dead kid. Here's the parents gambling, trying to raise money. She asks us, how much would it cost to bury the child? Two hundred dollars. And, she was from Oklahoma, and immediately she dug through, got money, paid on the spot, at that point, to pay for the burial of the child. And then I saw it - and if you were there, I know you'd have caught it too. She took her hand, and she touched the casket of the dead child. And when she did that -- See, that's when it gets real. Then it's not in a book. Then it's not in a lab. Then it's not in a Bible school. Then it's not in a conference. When you touch it; when you get close enough, and it's real. And you see a child sitting in a cemetery. I preach from Numbers Chapter 16, where Aaron stood between the living and the dead. And where he stood the death stopped. You get close enough to the urgency; you walk amongst death; you see people living on top of graves. Guess what? The proximity. Well, you can touch those wounds. And it does something to you, it affects you. You know, we talk about I want to go somewhere where I'll never be the same. Really? See, we say we want to change, but we want change on our terms. We want acceptable change. I wonder how much any of us really want to change. I think that's the question that we're all going to have to ask ourselves going into next year. How much do we really want to change? Do we want this bad enough? Want this bad enough to touch the wounds? You don't see people visiting much anymore. That's why we visit every kid in our Sunday schools. Even during this covid thing, our team are out -- (knock, knock, knock) -- knocking on doors. Visiting. See the people lined up right now. There will be tomorrow. Tonight -- Paul, I wish you were here -- tonight they will take little stones, little pieces of paper, and they scroll their name on them. They lay it on the sidewalk right out in front of this building, where I'm talking to you from right now. They start putting these spots, trying to hold their spot on the sidewalk so that when our food truck rolls in, they can come in and get a little bit of food so they can make it through next week. And the line of food will go three, four, five, six blocks, sometimes, just to get some food. Stand out there. Watch them unload the truck. Stand out there on the sidewalk. And you watch. You watch. People that have nothing. And they get a little, little box of food. We're going to feed 5000 people this Thanksgiving. That's next week. Well, how can you do that with covid? Yeah, we're going to do it. We're going to have the largest Christmas outreach. We call it Operation Holiday Hope. We've been doing it 25 years. Our biggest Christmas outreach is going to happen this Christmas, in the middle of covid. We're going to reach 50,000 kids at Christmas this year. Every one of them -- And that's just in New York; That's not the other countries. That's just here in New York City. -- And every one of those kids is going to get a red Christmas present. We got people right now coming in from all over the United States to wrap those gifts. One of our men went to Macy's. You know, Macy's has closed down so many stores. And he went to them and said, Look, you've got wrapping paper. You're going out of business. Could we have your wrapping paper? So, we got the wrapping paper. We got people coming in to wrap them. We got people that are going out with us on the streets to reach them for Sunday school; Give them a gift and at this year -- And, you know this. All of you watching know this. -- It's hard enough for these people just to get food, never mind, get their kids a gift. But we're going to bring you gifts. We're going to bring Jesus. We're going to tell them what the season really is about. And this will be our biggest Christmas ever. How does that happen? We still live here. I still live here. I live two floors above where I'm talking to you right now. This used to be an old abandoned hospital. We've just fixed it up. We all live here. The offices are here. The interns stay here. I still drive the bus. I'm still out on the field. When you allow yourself to just push back, and get out of your little mindset of what ministry really is, and let those simple New Testament principles begin to take root. It just changes you, man. It just changes you.
Paul Fraser I mean, I could just sit and listen. I'm feeling God's Spirit speaking to me. I know He's speaking to others as you're talking. Just, I think for me personally, I want to change. I do. But I can't change myself; only Jesus can change me. And until I get that right, until that relationship and love for Jesus overtakes me. I don't --.
Paul Fraser Yeah, like, I just I don't --.
Bill Wilson I know, I know.
Paul Fraser I can't stir up compassion. It has to be Christ in me. And, you know, Pastor Bill, I just sense Christ in you. So deeply. How you--.
Bill Wilson I hope so. I hope so.
Paul Fraser Like, this is just a real powerful moment for me, and I just want to thank you. Grateful that other people are leaning into this moment and watching. But your compassion for people, your compassion for kids, it's come with a cost. But it's come out of a thriving relationship with Jesus; that you love the things that He loves because you love Him so desperately.
And He loved me, Paul. I was. I was the kid that nobody wanted. I was the kid that nobody cared about. I was the kid that when I went to the front to accept Christ, in that AG camp. Every kid that came to the altar had somebody praying for them, leading to the Lord. But nobody would pray for me. It took me two days of asking - because I asked. I asked the counselors, why would nobody pray for me? You know why nobody would pray for me? See, I still had the same clothes on that they picked me up off the street in, because I didn't have any other clothes. Old, dirty white, holey shirt, holes in my pants. I stuttered. My face was deformed. I've had to get four teeth pulled, when I was a teenager, to shift my jaw. I still have a deformed ribcage, here, because I had rickets from malnutrition. Nobody would pray with the poor boy. But I heard the speaker say, He said, just talk to Jesus. I'd never prayed. I had never been to church. I had no point of reference. But when I heard him say, Just talk to Jesus, I even remember what I said, man. I remember exactly what I said. I said, Jesus, the Christians don't want me. My mother doesn't want me. I said, but if you want me, here I am. And that night, all by myself, at the front of that camp, for the first time in my life, I felt like somebody loved me. And I've never looked back. Why do you think I still drive the bus? Because every week, when I drive that bus, you know who I'm picking up. I'm picking up me. I'm picking up me. When it gets that real, when it gets that real; When you make a decision to say, Lord, change me. Change me. Whatever it takes, Lord. We make that decision and you put yourself out in the need, and you let those needs touch you. All of a sudden, everything else that a lot of us think is really important, it's just not that important.
Paul Fraser Wow. Thank you so much. For your heart. Your passion. In a moment, I'd love for you -- and, as people are watching; People will be listening in their cars; People will be tuning in to this podcast from all over Canada, certainly, maybe even around the world. I want to say thank you. For sharing your heart. I'm challenged by so many of the things that you've said. I'm encouraged by the things you've said. I'm burdened with the things that you have said. And I know that that's from the Spirit. I'm wondering, just as we close off the podcast, if you could pray. Think about church planters. Some are in urban areas, some are in suburban, some are in rural. We've got people that will be listening to this that are starting up youth drop-in centers for high-risk youth; others who are starting a food ministry, and even in their local church right now, they're doing food and clothing. I've got a great--.
Anyways, I've got some really cool stories coming out of Canada of church plants with food distribution and food rescue and, you know, God's on the move and He's speaking to the next generation. But you carry a different spirit in you. And a courageous one. And a compassionate one. And I'm wondering if you could pray that over me; wondering if you could pray that over us in Canada, that we would catch this heart for people far from God. That we would have the same heart that Jesus has.
Bill Wilson That's right.
Paul Fraser Everything that you were describing about going to the poor, the broken, and the disenfranchised, the marginalized, the outcast - those are all the people that Jesus went to.
Bill Wilson That's right. That's right.
Paul Fraser And He had the biggest criticism for the religious.
Bill Wilson Yes. Always.
Paul Fraser And the greatest compassion. So anyways, this isn't my sermon. You have shared it so much better than I could ever, but could you pray to us?
Bill Wilson You can preach it. We both can.
Paul Fraser Could you pray for us? Could you pray for me?
Bill Wilson Father, in Jesus' name, Lord, I pray for my friend, and I pray for everybody who's listening today. Lord, lives are in the balance right now, right here, right now. There are lives in the balance. And when that man picked me up off the street, he didn't know. It was just an ordinary Christian who saw the little poor boy. It was a little hinge, but it opened a big door. And, Lord, I'm asking you right now, that the power of the Holy Ghost will come upon us. Lord, burn in us. Change what needs to be changed. Let the compassion -- God break our hearts. God, would the things that break your heart - Again, and for those that maybe lost that somewhere - God, renew that fire. Renew that fire. Renew. Let it burn. Lord, open the doors that need to be open for my friends, Lord. That they'll see the need. That the need, again, will become the call. When they respond, whatever it takes, open those doors that need to be opened; close the doors that need to be closed. God, give us all the wisdom to know the difference. Strengthen us. Strengthen us. God, it's time for Canada. I've said that for years, but I've got to say it again. It's time for Canada. God, use us. Use all of us. To be that one; to be that one. Because there's still a little boy sitting on a street corner. There's a little girl being sold right now, right now, we all know that. Is it nothing? Nothing to all you that pass by? So I'm asking you - Do what you need to do in each one of us. We give you permission, Lord. Change us. Change us. Lay power of conviction upon us. God, I pray that some of these folks listening won't be able to sleep well tonight. For some of us don't need to sleep well tonite. We just don't. Some have slept well for too long. Let us see it. Let us sense it. Let us hear your voice, Lord. Let next year be a year where we move, we breathe, we live what it is that you put within us. That's my prayer. That's my prayer for my friends. I pray it in Jesus' name, Amen.
Paul Fraser Pastor Bill, we received that. Thank you. Thank you. And I hope that we catch that heart for Canada. It was -- That heart was -- I read about things in our history and in our past that tell me that that heart was resident in our movement and other movements in Canada.
Bill Wilson Yes it was, yes it was.
Paul Fraser We have to recapture this heart. And thank you for lighting the fire again. Even in me. If for nobody else, this podcast was for me. Thank you so much. And we really appreciate it. Hopefully, we can connect again sometime. I'd love that.
Bill Wilson I hope so. I hope so.
Paul Fraser OK, thanks, Pastor Bill.
Bill Wilson Thank you, my friend.