The Undoing of Violet Claybourne by Emily Critchley

Emily Critchley joins Jane Healey on Historical Happy Hour to talk about her latest novel. The Undoing of Violet Claybourne is a haunting tale of ambition, betrayal, and family secrets set in 1938. When lonely boarding school student Gillian Larking is drawn into the glamorous yet shadowed world of her enigmatic roommate Violet Claybourne and her family estate, Thornleigh Hall, she discovers a sinister reality beneath its grandeur. Entrapped by the sisters’ dark manipulations after a tragic accident, Gilly must navigate loyalty, deceit, and her own survival in a choice that will forever alter her destiny.

Transcript

Jane: 0:02

Welcome to Historical Happy Hour, the podcast that explores new and exciting historical fiction novels. I'm your host Jane Healey, and in today's episode, we welcome British author Emily Critchley to discuss her novel, the Undoing of Violet Clayborne, which publishes weekly called an Artful Gothic tinged Mystery, and an immersive chilling treat for suspense fans. And I totally agree. It released March 4th. Welcome, Emily. Thanks for coming on. Hello. No, thank you so much for having me. Thank you. So I'm gonna do a quick bio about you intro and then and we'll dive in. So Emily Critchleys, YAW Notes on my Family was nominated for the Carnegie long listed for the Branford Bose and Book of the Week for the Sunday Times her debut novel for adults, one Puzzling Afternoon was featured in People Mag Magazine's best books for Fall 2023 and Women's World Book Club. And it received a star. From book list among other accolades. Emily Kley has an MA in creative writing from Birkbeck University of London, and currently lives in her, how do I pronounce the her, she, her,

Emily: 1:07

she, yeah, her,

Jane: 1:07

she and the uk, where she works as a librarian. Again, welcome and thank you for doing this. Thank you Jane.

Emily: 1:14

Thank

Jane: 1:14

you. I gotta hold up the book'cause it's beautiful cover too. Undoing a Violet Clayborne. Your publishers described this novel as historical suspense with chilling gothic undertones and a hint of the speculative, which I think is a perfect description. I read that you started writing this novel during the pandemic. Talk about the premise of the story and how you came about writing it.

Emily: 1:35

Oh, sure. Okay. So I think there were a number of inspirations for this book. Definitely it has quite a claustrophobic feel, which I think a lot of us were feeling during the pandemic. But I think it came slightly from my love of kind of country house novels. I. And books about the English class system at that time, upstairs, downstairs, books. I really love interwar fiction. Anything set either in the wars or around the First and Second World War. To me it feels history that's at the end of our fingertips. Like it's not that far away. Only a few generations, I have grandmothers that lost, brothers in the wars, and it always just, all that period has always fascinated me. And then I think another inspiration is that I've always loved sister novels, whether they're historical or contemporary. I'm one of three sisters. And anything about sisters, I just always want to read and lap up. And I think my initial inspiration for the book, I wasn't, I had finished my previous book, one Puzzling Afternoon. I wasn't sure what to write next, and I just had this reoccurring. Image that kept coming back to me, and it was of this sort of gothic crumbling mansion and three girls in pale dresses standing at the front of it. And I had no idea what this image was, but it just kept coming back to me and I thought, oh, this is going to be my next book and I dunno what it is. And but this is the one that I'm going to have to write next.

Jane: 2:51

Oh, fascinating. I wish I had images like that come to me for my books. That never happens for me. But that's amazing. So this is told from the perspective of not one of the three sisters, but of Gili, is it pronounced Gili or Gili? Gili. I was, yes. Gi

Emily: 3:06

Yeah.

Jane: 3:06

Gili started, it starts in 1999. It goes, then it goes back to her days at boarding school in 1938, and she meets this kind of. Quirky roommate Violet who moves in with her violet Claiborne at boarding school. Was it always gonna be told from Jill, like an outsider perspective of the three sisters lives?

Emily: 3:25

Yes, I think so. I had Jill's voice Jillian's voice like quite early on, and I think I just wanted that outsider's perspective. I wanted somebody to arrive at this house and look at this family who wasn't a part of that world, who was slightly different. So really Jillian and Violet, they meet at boarding school and they are from two quite different class backgrounds. Jillian was she was born in Egypt and her father sent her to boarding school in the UK and she's very lonely at boarding school. She doesn't know anybody. She doesn't have a lot of friends, and then she meets Violet. And Violet is she's a daughter of the Landy Gentry. Her father is a Lord, and she's very much from the upper classes. And Jillian kind of becomes fascinated with with Violet herself and also these kind of stories that she hears about her family. And when Violet invites Jillian to spend the kind of Christmas, winter break at her house, Thornley, Jillian is really excited and she can't wait to go.

Jane: 4:19

Yes. And and so that, and that kind of sets the story in motion. So one thing that all the characters are very well developed and I wanna talk more about that, but Julie noticed very early on that Violet is different. And I don't think it's a spoiler to say that she has OCD traits and definitely what would be described as neurodivergent today. And what was the inspiration for Violet as a character and how and another thing that I was when I was reading it too, I think that it's, it's not easy to first of all write about people in a different time period, but then teenagers or is a challenge. So what was our, what was the inspiration and what was it like to write about Violet and Jillian and their friendship? I

Emily: 4:58

think I knew initially that Violet was going to be a little bit different, and I think that's what Jill actually quite likes about her, first of all, and I didn't quite know during my first draft what sort of condition Violet would have. It really came out in the writing. I think it became clear that she probably, yeah is somewhat neurodiverse, but the OCD didn't really happen until my second draft. And violet calls her OCD her undoing. So she she has these kind of various thought patterns that she can't break. She has rituals and compulsions, which is which is common with somebody with OCD, but she also has there's so much going on in Violet's mind. She like builds up all these things throughout the day that she's done wrong and then she has to go through them all and undo them. And that takes a long time and, as anyone with OCD will know, it can be a really draining condition to have. Violets, yeah, her. Kind of her conditions, they I felt that they got more and more present with each draft really. And then I felt that I really did need to set those up quite early, knowing what was going to happen to her later on in the novel.

Jane: 5:55

Definitely. As I said, all the characters are really well drawn. Violet's sisters, Emily and Laura. Julie gets to meet them when she goes home for holiday. She's enamored with them. They seem very glamorous, upper class. And they, how do you, what are your character development process like for all the main characters? Do you sketch them out ahead of time? Do you kind, do they just evolve as you write drafts? What's your process like? I'm always curious.

Emily: 6:21

I think a little bit of both. I think with this book I did write some, I had some index cards, like one for each sister and I started to just make some notes about personality traits and kind of the differences between them.'cause they're three sisters from the same family, but they are all quite different. So yeah, I don't know if I've. Ever done that before in a book, but I did for these sisters is I really wanted them to have these kind of different traits. But definitely, when I'm writing a first draft, my characters are like acquaintances that I'm, still getting to know. And then with every draft that goes on, I get to know them better and better. And you can just really deepen those existing traits that they have.

Jane: 6:54

Yeah, that makes total sense. I wanna read this, I read an article and your book was included. And I thought this was such an interesting quote, for many gothic writers, the setting is more than just a backdrop. It's a character. As Hugo Award winner, arcade Martine puts it, gothic is a romance between a girl and an evil house. Talk about which I love that quote. And I loved the setting. And did you consider Thornley Hall where the Claiborne's lived? Did you consider that as like almost another character in the story?'cause it was so atmospheric and dark and moody and.

Emily: 7:28

Oh, absolutely. I knew very early on that ever since that image came into my head, really, that the book was going to have gothic vibes and a few gothic traits. And I love writers like thinking of books like Rebecca by Daphne de Moer and Shirley Jackson's. We have all lived in the cast, books that another sisters novel with a creepy house. And I'm very inspired by what I read and I was thinking a lot about, about those two writers. And yes, I really wanted it to the house to strike gi. As soon as she arrives there, there's that scene where she's been driven up the front path, through the gates, and she sees a kind of crumbling gothic thornley hall and the kons, they've, they're running outta money at this point in the story and they can't afford to do repairs to it. And there's a section of the house that's eerily burnt, and I really wanted to make that image very strong. 40, she even steps inside the house.

Jane: 8:16

Yeah, no, it was excellent. Was it based on any estate in particular, or did, was it totally from your imagination?

Emily: 8:23

It wasn't based on any in particular, but I did I did of course Google several. There was one in Somerset that I quite liked the look of, but I now can't remember the name of. But there were various, I had various kind of images that I put together on a sort of mood board before I, I came up with Thornley.

Jane: 8:37

Very fun. Here's a, another quote that is from the article from you. When I think of gothic, I think it's a claustrophobia. And you mentioned that during the pandemic we all felt like we were in claustrophobic conditions. But like when you think, describe like your definition of gothic. I mean it's certainly this novel falls under that for sure, but I think that people have different ideas of what it means to, to write, to be a, a gothic novel.

Emily: 9:02

I think along with the claustrophobia, to me it's about secrets. Things in the past that we, we don't, yet know of. It's about I think feel like there's often a character who feels at odds with the rest of the world, with the rest of their environment. And that's very much violet. She's very different. And. Yeah, I don't know. I think just the whole atmosphere this was a book that really started from atmosphere for me, which is why I think it ended up being so gothic. I saw that image and it was a book that the setting and even the weather, it happens over winter. You all that paid played such a key part in the book. And that's never really happened for me before. That atmosphere has been so important.

Jane: 9:42

Yeah. And you captured it so well. The majority of the story takes place when, interwar years. And so what was your research like for that era? Had you been, I mean I'm sure like we all have a base level of knowledge of what it was like then. But did you have to go deep into some of the research at the time? I thought it was one of the things that was interesting. There was some elements of doubt Abbey for me. And these families that were aristocratic and so wealthy and living these. Lives that were just coming up against a new era. That and their lives no longer meshed with that. Like you said, pe these estates were running outta money and getting run down. So what was your research like for that?

Emily: 10:22

Yeah, really fun. I think it was something that always had fascinated me. And it's a thing that a lot of us do. At the weekend we'll go and visit a big country house and walk around and they're all owned now by English heritage or the National Trust. And ever since I was a child and my parents would take me to these places. I loved, looking in the ballroom and then down in the servant's quarters and and yes, I did enjoy watching Downton Abbey. When it first said I think we all love Downton Abbey, so I think, and then it was really nice just to be able to go that little bit deeper and to really start to think about the, their way of life and how it was just really diminishing. And this started around the time, after the First World War and Writing and this interwar novel, most of it is said in 1938. And there was a lot of anxiety, of course in 1938 in England about the possibility of war. So it's already quite an anxious time. But also I really wanted to try and capture the kind of the reverberations of the First World War. And what happened in England is that so many men so many men and boys, really, they, most of them were barely 20 were killed. And and this meant that a lot of these houses in all of these families no longer had male heirs. And and this was the case with Lord Claiborne. So Lord Claiborne is the sister's father. And he was the third born son and would never really have inherited Thornton if it wasn't for the war, and that his two brothers were killed. And he is scarred mentally and physically by the war. And I think that's what interests me about the interwar period is you've got these big changes happening and this kind of dismantling of a class system that had been in place for centuries and centuries, and then all of a sudden in the 20th century. The war comes along, so many men are killed. Women go to work to help with the war effort for really the first time. And the upper classes are making do without their servants because they're all in the war effort and things never really went back to the way they were, in we talk about the last golden summer of 1913 and. Just after the ed warden era, before everything changed and things never really went back to the way they were before and around the kind of early very early 20th century. I read that. The biggest kind of employer in the UK at that time would've been these country states, so you would've been working in service and that just seems incredible that I don't think of it as that long ago that, the biggest source of employment in the UK was to be working in one of these country estates and certainly by 50, 60 seventies. They were being destroyed. And the upper classes, the kind of the clayborn of this world were almost becoming a kind of figure of comedy. Like that's just not the way that we live anymore. And that's so antiquated and outta date. And I think that short and, quite sharp decline from after the first World War up until the kind of sixties when these houses were being turned into schools or being demolished to make way for, retail parks and supermarkets and housing estates. And it was so swift that happened really. And I think it's, I do think, it's a great thing that this kind of revolution of the 1950s happened in the uk and that working class culture was given such a boost, and that's all fantastic, but we did lose a lot of beautiful stately homes that were demolished. And I don't think anybody really sat and thought, gosh, these. These homes were created by incredibly, famous architects. And they're absolutely beautiful and they're part of our heritage, and we managed to save a few, but many and many were destroyed. And that I found really interesting actually researching that.

Jane: 13:37

Yeah, really interesting.'cause I, yeah, I know that there's ones that you can visit now, but I can't imagine how many were, destroyed by because of progress and now you look back and you're like, yeah, those were. Historic should have been preserved, maybe. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna talk about packaging for a second because I love the cover and was, and when I first saw the title, I was like, oh, it's gonna be told from Violet's perspective, the undoing of Violet Clayborne. Was the title always going to be the undoing of Violet Clayborne, even though it's not told from her perspective.

Emily: 14:08

No. So I didn't really have a title I work. My working title is probably just the Clayborne Sisters. That was probably what my Word document was called. And then because I have a UK team and a US team, we went backwards and forwards about titles and both teams came up with various titles. I. And actually we couldn't agree for a while on what the title was going to be, and I really wanted the same title across both territories as I just find it's easier, people are looking on good reads or it's I don't want anybody to be buying the same book twice. I really said I wanted the same title, and then I came up with a title, which was it was my suggestion. I had about five titles, but this one was my favorite. And and the UK said, yes, we really like this. And then the US jumped in and said, yes, we think we really like it too. And yeah so I, and I didn't, I did think, I suppose that it's not, yeah, it's, it is Violet story, but it's told by Jillian. But I don't think, I don't think that mattered and the response I've got from readers has really been, oh, poor violet. And, but her story's so interesting. And yeah. So I think it's, I think it's right. I think it's right. I'm really pleased with it and I love the cover. Absolutely love the colors on the US cover that we are looking at now. It's just so beautiful and I was so pleased when it came through.

Jane: 15:14

So beautiful. And I think it fits with the title and the undoing of Violet Clayborne. It makes you ask questions. Titles are so hard, and I just, I think it works. So did you have a say in the cover design, because I know that's like a tricky thing with publishers.

Emily: 15:30

So with the us no, they sent me the cover, but I loved it. So I was so glad that I hadn't had a say that I hadn't put through any ideas that might have influenced them because I really enjoyed it. And with the UK cover, I saw some kind of early drafts and they were worked from early drafts, but this, the US cover arrived just to me just pretty much how it is. And I said yes. Oh, great. I love it.

Jane: 15:51

That's, yeah, that's rare. I think that's amazing. Yeah, they did a beautiful job. And I actually, as I was reading it, I'm like looking at like the different symbols and the flowers and different things at that even made more sense. So I wanna talk about like your writing life and your writing career. This novel is a departure from both like your last novel for adults and your young adult novels. It's a really different genre. And why did you decide to pivot to, to this.

Emily: 16:18

I think when I was writing one Puzzling Afternoon, that was a novel that is set it has a dual timeline, so it's set in the present day, which at that time was 2018, and then it's also set in the early 1950s. And I really enjoyed the historical element, the writing, the 1950s. Part, even though it's probably harder, I loved doing the research and I loved finding that voice and capturing that era. So I was quite keen to do something historical again, or dual timeline. And I originally, I thought this might be a dual timeline and then it seemed to just work better. So the book is sort of book ended, if you like, by Jillian in the nineties. So we are with her first in the first chapter and then we are with her in the final chapter as an older lady looking back. So I wanted to do something historical and I had a sort of a few different ideas, but again, that image just kept coming back to me. And then I got that first line. So there's now a chapter before this, but the first line that I had was, I. Jillian going to meeting Violet Kla. Violet Kla was my roommate and that's why we became friends and I just had that first line and I thought, I really liked that first line. That's really strong. So I just went with that. I felt like I had her voice and I really need to have a character's voice when I start writing.

Jane: 17:23

Definitely. And was was there anything about this genre, like diving into this that was particularly challenging to you?

Emily: 17:32

Yes. Yeah, lots of it was challenging. It was challenging. I did get stuck about halfway, so there's not really halfway, about 40%. Through the book, there's a big event that happens. I think it says on the blood, there's a sort of an accident in the woods that changes the course of. Gillian's life and all the girls' life. And I got to that point and then I got a bit stuck afterwards about, about where to go next. And I ended up writing a little bit from Frank's perspective. So Frank is the kind of guy that lives in the cottage on the grounds. And I read a little bit from his perspective and some other character's perspectives. And in the end I decided that I didn't need any of that, that I just wanted to stick with Jillian as my narrator for the entire novel. But I think at that point I just needed to find a way through after that. Big shocking event. I needed to find that. But I know I really enjoyed the being in the historical timeframe and I think just keeping the suspense up was really important to me. There were always lots of different challenging elements, but I think I did have a bit of a wobble about 40% through, I thought, oh gosh, this big event has happened and where to go next.

Jane: 18:32

I feel like I, I feel like 40% is where a lot of writers have a wobble. I feel like I always have a wobble around, around that part. You're like, oh God, am I doing this right? Is this gonna come out on the other side? I be okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's common. And actually this segues into my next question really well, these are questions that I always write, ask writers. What is your process? Do you plot things out? Do you write by the seat of your pants? Is it in between? How do you write? I.

Emily: 18:58

I think I'm probably more of a panther. I probably I tend to write about a one page synopsis that would just have the very basic plot points on it and and that helps me, but it's really also for my agents so that she knows what I'm doing next. Agents and editors know they like to know what you're doing. I really do that, that for them. I dunno whether I would even do it. I might just keep it in my head. I think I'm trying to get better at plotting. I think it is really helpful. But I just enjoy the exploration so much. I think doing a first draft it's so difficult, but it's also the most exhilarating part of the writing process where it's terrifying, but it's also, when it's going it's amazing, and I really enjoy that process. But not to say that I, yeah I would like to get slightly better plotting and every book. Is its own beast, it demands something different. And if the next book came to me and said it needed to be very tightly plotted and it had a lot of plot, and that's just what it needed, I just tend to go with whatever I, whatever the book wants, really.

Jane: 19:57

Yeah, that makes total sense. How do you strike a balance between fact and fiction in your storytelling? Particularly when it comes to like historical facts? Are there any strict rules that you adhere to?

Emily: 20:11

No, not really. I suppose I was lucky in this, in that this novel wasn't based on any person who actually lived in real life. They're all fictional characters, and my setting is also fictional. But I wanted to just remain true, to key events in history that were happening around the time. So I'm, I know, I knew that I was setting it in 1938 and I wanted to capture the sense of anxiety. And then there is a small section of the book where we do go into the early years of the war, and that was quite important to me that, you know that timeline was correct. And that was really interesting as well, actually researching London because Jillian has a short time living in London. And even though it's only a couple of chapters researching what it was like in London during World War II was really really eye-opening and quite horrific, really poor people being bombed, every night. Yeah. And getting up the next day and going to Jo, going to work and picking themselves up. And I read a memoir about somebody who worked, who was working in London during that time. And she, about half the people that she knows in the book are, have been killed unfortunately, in the bombings. It was just really horrific, but really interesting. Yeah,

Jane: 21:15

every time I read or research. But that time in London, I'm always like, astonished. Like how did they do it? Like how did they just, like you said, wake up every day and try to go to work when there's a house bombed out right next to their own house and it just unbelievable, crazy.

Emily: 21:33

Yes. Yeah. You've got people sleeping down in the, the tube or the subway that you would call it, down. Yes. And then wild, it's just, yeah, just really mind blowing. I'm definitely open to setting something during during World War II in London, I think.

Jane: 21:46

Yeah, definitely. What advice do you have for writers? You've been doing this a while now about writing and about getting published. Those, I know those are. Two very different things, but what advice would you have?

Emily: 21:59

They are, I think about writing, I would say you've got to finish something. So I think once you finish, whether it's your novel, your screenplay, your play, your poetry collection, whatever you want to do, I think you have to finish something. And I think then you can call yourself a writer and you can call yourself a querying writer or a writer who's written collection of short stories or whatever it is. That, you start off doing. And then I think with publishing, I think you have to understand that not every first novel is published and that it might take you two or three. And I think if you bear that in mind from the beginning, you really have to know that you're in it for the long game. There's an agency in, london, quite famous literary agency, and I remember some years ago they did a kind of survey about their authors and how long it took from the point when they decided, I'm going to be a writer, I'm going to be published. This is what I really want to do. To the point where they got published and it was about 10 years, I think, and it can happen much more quickly. Exactly. Yeah. It takes, yeah, it can happen more quickly. It can happen with your first book, but I think. You have to be prepared to maybe write two or three and to know that you're in it for the long game and that, it's, you could call it a hobby, but it's a hobby you're taking seriously because you hope eventually one day to be a published author and you have to, yeah, try to make time for that, which is incredibly hard.

Jane: 23:18

Incredibly hard. And I think that is one thing I always talk to about talk to with writers who are just starting out is you have to give your self permission. Even though you're not getting paid for it at the time, you don't know if you'll ever get paid for it. Do you have to give yourself permission to work, to do that kind to, to write and to make mistakes and write crappy drafts and all of those things that get you to the next level, I totally agree.

Emily: 23:40

I do.

Jane: 23:41

It's hard. Yeah, it is hard. So you're a librarian as well, is that right? Yes. So how does being a librarian help your. You as an author.

Emily: 23:51

Actually a secondary school librarian, so like a high school librarian. So I work with teenagers all day. I think the best thing about my job is that it gets me out of the house and into the real world. I think that if I didn't do it, I'm only part-time there, but I think if I didn't do it, I would just go a little bit crazy sitting at my desk. And it's nice to go into the real world and to talk to teenagers and young people and to try and inspire them. So I run a creative writing club and. I always tell them that I started exactly the same as you, just writing stories in my notepad. Using the library, reading lots and lots of books. And I just try my best to inspire them because I, they're our next generation of writers and readers. Really?

Jane: 24:31

Absolutely. Now, have any of them read this novel?

Emily: 24:34

A few of them have. A

Jane: 24:35

few of them have.

Emily: 24:35

Nice.

Jane: 24:36

Yeah.

Emily: 24:36

Yeah. They think it's dark. Yeah. They say, oh, it's really dark. It's

Jane: 24:39

dark. Dark and twisty. Yes. And I'm sure like working with teenagers must have helped you write teenagers, even though it's a different era. That must have been a little helpful.

Emily: 24:47

Yes. Yeah. It reminds you that teenagers can be amazing, but. But also, not the ones that I work with now because they're mostly lovely, but I did think back to my own teenage years and and teenage girls as anyone will know, if you've been to high school, they can be quite cruel. And these girls, they're quite cruel to each other. Oh,

Jane: 25:03

yes.

Emily: 25:04

Have you always

Jane: 25:04

wanted to be a writer?

Emily: 25:07

Yes. Yes, I think so. I think usual thing when I was a child, I was always making up plays and I was the one that would rope everyone into the games and then want decide that I wanted to write them down. And then when I was at secondary school, I had an English teacher who she did a creative writing assignment and I submitted mine, and then she said to the whole class, I want to read one out because this is a really good piece of work and this person can maybe be a writer one day. And I wasn't really, I was pretty average at everything in. School, I wasn't particularly good at anything and it was my piece of work and she read it out and she said, you can do this. You can really do this. So she was fantastic. And I did had this epiphany moment around that time of, yeah, what else could I do? This is this, I'm not really good at much else. I really always wanted to do it. And then maybe I lost my way a little bit in my late teens, early twenties, and then I started to come back to it and I thought, yeah, no I really want to do this. And I started off and I took a course and just yeah, decided that I was gonna be in it for the long haul. And my first two books were not published.

Jane: 26:01

I think a lot of authors have at least one. I have a, I have one and a half that will never see the light of day. Yeah. It's

Emily: 26:08

very common.

Jane: 26:08

And thank God for teachers like that. Isn't that the best? Yeah. You never forget those teachers. Are you ready to share what you're working

Emily: 26:15

on

Jane: 26:15

now?

Emily: 26:16

Oh no, I can tell you that I am working on something. I have started something new, but but no, but I haven't even told either my UK or my US editor what I'm doing, so probably not. My agent knows what I'm doing. I've had to send her my really ragged one page, very rough synopsis, which she has miraculously agreed that it's okay for me to work on that. But no, sorry, I'm gonna be quite secretive about it. I think I'll just say that. I really enjoyed the suspense element writing that element in the undoing a violet clayborne and some of the twists, and it's definitely going to have elements of elements of a thriller, some suspense and twists and things like that. That's what I'm hoping for.

Jane: 26:55

Oh, exciting. And I won't ask anymore.'cause I know, like when it's early days with an idea I find like you just have to keep it under wraps or it can like, ruin the mojo, yes.

Emily: 27:03

Yes. So I understand that you talk too much then you feel like you've written it already.

Jane: 27:08

Exactly. And it's no fun anymore. How I know you're on Instagram and Facebook. What's the best way that readers can stay in touch with you?

Emily: 27:15

So probably Instagram, which is just Emily Critchley, or my website, which is emily critchley.com. Probably most, most frequently on those. Excellent.

Jane: 27:25

This is lovely, Emily. I'm so glad we could finally do it and and yeah that's a wrap. I'm glad that readers can stay in touch. I'm gonna hold up this beautiful cover again, the undoing of Violet Clayborne. I think it's a great book club book. There's lots of juicy stuff to talk about, so I definitely recommend it for book clubs and and best of luck. I know the reviews online are excellent and you're getting a lot of buzz, so I wish you the best with it and I hope it just soars. Aw.

Emily: 27:49

Thank you so much, Jane. This has been wonderful.

Jane: 27:51

So lovely. So thank you. And a reminder to describe, subscribe to my YouTube channel and follow the podcast so you can get regular updates. My latest Cold War novel releases this summer, August 1st is the new pub date, the Women of Arlington Hall, and it's available for pre-order. Next up is share a Moon. Next Thursday, the 20, March 21st. If you're listening to this, you can register online'cause that will be live at 7:00 PM Eastern time. Thank you again, Emily. Have a great day and best of luck with everything.

Emily: 28:21

Thank you, Jane.