A Promise to Arlette by Serena Burdick

In this episode of Historical Happy Hour, bestselling author Serena Burdick joins host Jane Healey to discuss her latest novel, A Promise to Arlette. Inspired by the bohemian life of Burdick’s grandmother—who was a muse to Man Ray and lived with Henry Miller in Big Sur—the novel blends art-world mystique, postwar trauma, and a rich exploration of female friendship and love. Set in both conservative 1950s Massachusetts and pre-WWII France, the story unfolds through a mysterious photograph and a buried past. Burdick and Healey delve into the research, historical figures, narrative structure, and the emotional weight of returning from war, offering listeners a deep look into the creative process behind this sweeping dual-timeline historical fiction.

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Jane 0:02

Welcome to Historical Happy Hour at the podcast that explores new and exciting historical fiction. I'm your host, Jane Healy, and today's episode we welcome bestselling author Serena Burdick to discuss her brand new novel, A Promise to Arlet, which is getting all kinds of deserved buzz. Welcome, Serena. Congratulations. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming. I'm gonna do a quick bio and then I probably have too many questions, but I'm gonna dive in. Serena Burdick is the USA today bestselling author of the Girls with No Names, the Stolen Book of ever Evelyn Aubrey, find me in Havana and Girl in the Afternoon. She studied creative writing at Sarah Lawrence College, holds a BA from Brooklyn College in English Literature and an AA from the American Academy of Dramatic Arts and Theater. Again, welcome. Thank you. So you, it's funny, I I've had authors come on the podcast and say, oh, this book was inspired by my family's history grandparent or someone. But when I read your grandmother's story, I was like. What? What is going on? So you have to, and I, of course I had, I went down a rabbit hole and looked up pictures and everything else. Tell everyone about your extraordinary grandmother, Margaret Neiman and how her story inspired this book. 'cause it's an, it's amazing.

Serena 1:20

Her story is amazing. People have asked if I'm gonna write her story, which I she in the forties moved to Los Angeles because of Hazel Guggenheim, which is Peggy Guggenheim's sister. They were good friends from New Orleans and she within Hazel's very wealthy world. My Mar Grandma Margaret became she was hosting a lot of parties and meeting all sorts of art people and just got caught up in that. Art world. And a lot of the artists had come after World War ii, man, Ray being one of them from Europe to escape the war. And like he was in la they just all got involved together and she became a muse of man Ray's. And then a little bit later on, she moved up the coast of Big Sur, where she lived with the writer Henry Miller and his wife, and my, she became a single mom when my mother was born. That. Born in Colorado, but moved there very young and was raised there till she was seven. And grew up with Henry Miller's children in this really bohemian, avant-garde lifestyle where man and his wife Juliet lived in la but they would come up all the time and stay with them for numerous lengths of time and took all of the photographs we have are of my grandmother, man Ray Juliet during those years on the coast of Big Sur.

Jane 2:33

Incredible. So this story is completely, a promise to Arlet is completely fictional, but it's inspired by your grandmother's story. So tell everyone about the premise to a promise to arlet.

Serena 2:45

It's it's really only that there's a photograph that we have of my grandmother and man's wife, Juliette, and they're both masked and nude. And the photograph hangs on my wall. So there's nothing in the actual novel that is the story of my grandmother. It's the photograph shows up in the novel and the photograph is a driving force throughout the whole novel. So I took the real women in that and made them fictional women in my book. A Promise to Ette opens up in 1952 in Lexington, Massachusetts, which was incredibly conservative. I am from Massachusetts, even though it's a different era, there is a level of conservative in areas, so I. Had started to spiral thinking what would it be, have been like to be a young woman in Paris in the thirties in that really open sort of avant-garde art world and then find herself seven years later, married housewife in New England. That was the premise of the book. So Ida is English and she Fictionally was Peggy Guggenheim's assistant in the novel. And ends up in the south of France where she meets her husband, who's a soldier, a US soldier.

Jane 3:54

So well done. As I said, I loved the story. It, so it begins in 1952 in Lexington, mass. I'm from Arlington, so I know Lexington pretty well. And like I said, and then it, and, but then it goes back in, in time to Ida's story before, like leading up to the war and during the war. So it spans a huge amount of time. What, talk about your research process the extent it's clear you did extensive research for this novel. Was there anything in your research that surprised you or changed the narrative arc in any way?

Serena 4:29

I didn't really know what I was doing when I started the 1950s portion of the novel I knew. So one of the things that happens right away, so it's not a spoiler, is that a neighbor purchases an original man Ray, and she unveils it, and it's this photograph of these two nude masked women. One of them is Ida and her best friend, Arlet. The photograph was left on a roll of film in the south of France, buried underground in a box. So when she sees this, no one knows it's her because she's masked. She, it's she spirals to the past and to the horrible things that happened to her friend and the things she did and the guilt she's living with her husband. And. I knew all that was going to happen. I had no idea how I was going to tell what happened in the past that leads up to that moment, and I was really invested in the 1950s and found myself scrambling. 'cause I thought, oh no. Now I have to write about World War ii, which wasn't originally my plan. And I didn't love the idea because such a written about era heavily researched. I almost felt a little lazy. I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna have to do so much research because this is you have to get it right. Yes. A complicated time in history and there's a lot going on. So it took a lot of a lot of research. I, I wrote the beginning and then I set it aside and I just dove into research. One of the books that I loved that was an incredible resource was a novel called Sweet Francis.

Jane 5:54

And it was written,

Serena 5:55

do you know that book?

Jane 5:56

Yes. Yes.

Serena 5:57

So it was written by a woman during the war, fictional, but everything she's writing is like happening in real time to this woman as she's writing. And then sadly, as you probably know, she doesn't survive. The writer doesn't survive, and they find this novel years later. So that novel to me just. Was gripping and I, made meticulous notes and really drew from what I learned during just that fictional read.

Jane 6:21

Yeah, that was that, that the whole story, the story of that book, the movie, it's just amazing. Yeah. Amazing. So it's the story centers on this young married couple, Ida and Sydney, and they meet in France, in Occupy France during the war. Sydney, as you said, was an American serving there. Ida was, work was pulled into working for the French resistance by her dear friend. And sometimes more than friend are. Let talk about these three main characters and your process of developing these rich characters that are at the center of the story. I.

Serena 6:59

I wanted to explore the two young women together to get, Arlet is very much a central character, even though she's, maybe not the, Ida is the protagonist when Ida meets her. I just wanted to look at this, these two young women in their, they're very 18, 1920s. The relationship between them that is complicated and really dynamic, and I liked that Arlet comes in with a strong, solid sense of herself, and Ida is really trying to figure herself out and I. I like to tell people I have, there's a woman in my life who's similar in, there was a very much a woman in my life who was in my mind while I was writing this. Writers, we always bring something to it. So the character ette reminded me of, or I used this female woman in my life who I was just friends with her, but always had a draw and a seek to be. Closer to, wanted to understand and couldn't. And so it was a complicated female relationship that I experienced and really wanted to explore it deeper. And I, I obviously flush it out far more than novel. And I make them, there's a, an attraction the women have to each other, which is also complicated. And then I wanted to throw in this idea that. I really wanted to write like a true like love story. So Sydnee to me is that truly good guy that she just totally falls in love with and I really wanted to show. Even through the guilt and the war and the difference of coming back and trying to raise their kids, that they were really solid with each other and committed to a certain extent. It was important to me to have that relationship be as strong as I hope it comes off on the page.

Jane 8:45

One of the things I liked about the angle you took on this story and this because it's post-war, is, my grandfather was in World War ii. He was on, I, a lot of people on this podcast know he was on the Navy ships south, the coast of Africa and Europe and he came home and like a lot of these veterans, men and women, like never talked about it again. Put it in a box. Really did not like talking about it. Did not wanna go say, see saving Private Ryan. I lived it and it's, I, and there was, we didn't have language for things like PTSD and it was, when I was reading about this couple, it was like, clearly they had a lot of trauma that they and they brought it home with them. And yet, and then they like, were just supposed to box it up and get on with their lives. And I thought that was what such an interesting angle that you took for this story.

Serena 9:32

Yeah, that was very intentional. 'cause I have thought a lot about that. I think it's, I don't have any personal experience with it, but I find it to be a harder thing to me to even imagine what it is like to be in incredibly war intense environments and then to come home and do, to somehow merge and to normal life and to have it matter. I guess that's something I would think most people struggle with that. How can you experience that and then care that something you can't pay a bill or there's, like I say, I think my book, like The Lawn needs to be Mowed. Who cares if you've, I don't know. But obviously we do, we find a way to come back and all those things start to matter again after trauma has happened. So it's just an interesting

Jane 10:13

Yeah.

Serena 10:14

Yeah. Look at that.

Jane 10:15

Totally. Yeah. Such an totally agree. There are many, even though the main characters are fictional, there's a lot of real characters from history in the story that you pull into the story. And one of them I want you to tell the audience about is Arian Fry, because I feel like he's someone who has not gotten his due in World War II history as much as some others. Like he was this incredible heroic man. And so tell the audience about who he was. And you were the first person that has ever asked

Serena 10:44

you about that

Jane 10:45

Charact. Really? Wow.

Serena 10:47

No. Forgot I wrote about him until you just said that. Yeah, that was a really fun part of the book for me because, I follow Peggy Guggenheim's real life timeline for the book. And so she ends up in the south of France, which is how my character ends up in the south of France. And in researching that there was this home that there was a Netflix series. Put out on it recently there was a home in the south of France that these artists went to. It was called Villa Bel Air. Oh. And they, so it was all those artists. It's that other house. There's a chateau in my novel, and then there's another chateau that they all go to at some point. So the other Chateau that's called Villa El Bel Air is. Was a real place that all the artists that I have in my novel there were really there. I didn't make any of that up. And so Arian Fry was a part of all that. So within my research, he just came out as this, he has an amazing story. He was an American who was sent over here with a list of people he was supposed to get out, and they were all prestigious writers or artists. And he struggled with wait, why am I only saving these people? All of the people around me need to be saved. And he was just flooded with people who. It was just so complicated and tragic and he started realizing that none of this could be done legally. And he was a very straight and narrow buttoned up kind of guy that started illegally trying to get people out and finding escape route. And his story is amazing and he worked with, there's some ariss coming in and out and. Those are all real in my novel as well. In that crowd, in that part of the book, the only two people who are not real are my two fictional characters. And yeah, so that was, I really enjoy, I that was an unexpected thing where you're researching and then you discover something that's totally fantastic to be putting in your book and it works really well.

Jane 12:30

Yeah. So good. And yeah, that that's interesting that all the other artists around, Arlette and Ida are real. Yeah. Fascinating. Oh, a hero of our own. The story of Arian Fry by Sheila Eisenberg. Someone says, is it? I hadn't heard of that. I'll have to check that out. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Such a fan. I wanna talk about structure because this is dual timeline and is this, why did you decide to structure it this way? And was that always the plan? Like start in 1952 and then take the readers back? To the pre-war days in Europe. Yeah I'm always interested in how oau authors like, do what they do. I

Serena 13:08

feel like I maybe should have had a plan. I think I did. I just, again, like it was like the 1952 part was what intrigued me. It's where I started and then it did occur to me like, oh wait, if I'm gonna tell this story, you have to know all the things that led up to this moment. So I did not intentionally plan to go quite as in depth and make as much of the novel the past as it ended up becoming. I will say I really had no structural plan for that whole section. I wanted to bring her from England. It just, that story just unfolded on its own. I was always really excited to get back to 1952. I really wanted to I was so excited to tell Sydnee and the how he like tries to find her and la That whole end of the book was what I was excited to start writing get to. I remember then World War II just felt like a schlog of SC to this, but it ends up, I ended up getting very much into it and it is one of those funny things where people who read it say, that's the section that's so good. I was so into that section. And as a writer, it's funny, it almost doesn't matter what you're into. Yeah. It's unexpected. But other people end up loving the parts that you were like, maybe oh, I just need to get through this part.

Jane 14:15

No, there, no, and it's all good. I want, so I have some writing questions that I ask all authors that come on, and one of them is about, you did a ton of research for this book balancing historical facts verse what's fiction like, how do you strike that balance in your writing? And are there any strict rules you follow? What's that like for you?

Serena 14:36

Because this is the fifth historical fiction book that I've written, I've. I've done it all very similarly in that I do all of my research and I get a really solid sense of the time and the real life people that I may be putting in there, and then I like let it all go. And I just use my imagination and I don't get hung up in any of the real anything because I want to feel free in what I'm doing. And yeah, I just take a lot of liberties to do whatever I want with my fictional characters and story. Within reason of sticking to timelines and eras and real wars that we know about with dates. Which is always nice as writing. 'cause then you have some kind of structure to work around. But I don't too much structure and I don't like being boxed in too much. I wrote it, my third book was a true story and I really loved writing it and I really won't do it again if I can help it. Didn't love having to stick to facts and timelines of someone else's entire life and not being able to veer off wherever I wanted, however I wanted. Yeah. And I think the other thing for me though, that I do get caught up in is I've. Learn to rely on my proofreads a bit, whereas by the end, I really expect them to call me out on wait. This couldn't have, and I definitely get called out on things which I love because I feel like true historical readers will catch me in something like one of them was like. Oh, I have my character get on a highway. Apparently that didn't exist in 1952. Oh, whoops. Big catch 95. That was not, oh, that's right. They had not built all those highways, so wait, what road would you have gotten on? Those are the ones that I, I. Try not to worry about while I'm writing, but I figure it will come back to me towards the end.

Jane 16:17

Yeah, no, those are always good catches. 'cause you know that the worst is like when you hear it from a reader and you're like, oh, cringe a couple like no. Yeah.

Serena 16:26

My favorite one of all time was when a book was, it was already the galley, I think it was like so ready to almost be published. My husband was reading it for the first time and he looks up and he is I don't think that they had headlights in 1906. I was like, what do you mean they didn't have headlights? He said you have a car driving down the road in England. He's I was like what the hell did they have? And I look it up. And he was totally right. There were no headlights. They had like lanterns hanging. I was like, oh my God, I have a headlight. Totally described a headlight coming down the road. I was like, this is I mad scramble to fix the, which it got fixed in the final copy, but I was like oh no. No one caught that. Oh,

Jane 17:03

good catch. That's a good husband. Yeah. That's funny. I, and it's funny what you say about. My last book was biographical fiction goodnight from Paris. It was about a true woman in history. I won't do that again for a really long time 'cause it was very challenging and I felt very boxed in, like you said. Yeah. I felt very, you have to stick to the facts much more than when you have fictional main characters. And I, I. By the end of that, I was like, I can't do this again for a long time. Yeah. So yeah, I would feel

Serena 17:30

that completely. If it's a personality thing, I think their writers do it really well and maybe like the structure. And then there are others that want the freedom to work with their own character. I

Jane 17:38

think that's really true. Yeah, absolutely. So speaking of like process, what is your writing process? I always ask, are you a plotter? Do you plot things out? Do you write by the seat of your pants? Is it somewhere in between?

Serena 17:51

How do you do it? I think about the story for a very long time before I sit down to write it. So even while I'm working on a current novel, I have one or two other novel ideas running in my mind. So it maybe sounds funny, but I spend a lot of time just actually thinking about them. So sometimes I intentionally will be driving in my car and don't put on a podcast or the radio you're gonna spend the next two hours thinking about your story. And so I am plotting it out, I guess in my mind, I'm thinking about who they are, what they're gonna do and what's gonna happen. And I have that very much. I never know the end, I only have the premise and like where they're going. I never have figured out how they're gonna be, how I'm gonna wrap any story up. But if I have the premise and where they're going and the idea to begin, and I have a relative idea where they're going, then I can begin it. And it usually starts to work itself out. You become more familiar with them, and most writers will say this. I think it's true for a lot of us that even when you think you have it figured out. It all changes or it takes on a life of its own or characters show up that you didn't anticipate coming in. So even if I've learned that, like this may be my plot in my idea, but it very likely may change along the way, which is fine because it gets you. To your seat and started, right?

Jane 19:08

Absolutely. Yeah, that's absolutely true. I, I have to write a synopsis before, like I pitch a story to my editors and I went back and looked at my synopsis for my latest book and I'm like, this is not the book that I wrote at all. It was not the same, but that's okay. 'cause it gets you started and that's what's the most important thing. Yeah. I have a couple, a few more questions for you, and I just wanna remind everyone, if you have questions for Serena, you can put them in the chat. The q and a and I'll ask her after I wrap up my questions. What is the most difficult part of the writing process for you, and what is the part that you enjoy the most?

Serena 19:43

The most difficult is that first chapter, sitting down and starting it. I find it so grueling. I don't love beginnings. Ugh. And I just don't love first drafts when I have, when I can get it all out, even if it's terrible. I feel a sense of status okay, now I know how to, now I know what I can do before that. It's just, it's a struggle for me. I love editing. So when that first draft is done, and I can, I'm so excited to get back to the beginning, then I can really clean it up and I think e each editing process. I enjoy more like the final edits. I love 'cause it's like almost right, but you can just really get so detailed and specific and tweak little things. And so yeah, that, that's my most enjoyable bit is as it gets towards the end.

Jane 20:30

We are the same in that way. Yeah, I dread, I like slog through the first draft. I always say it's like blood from a stone and then the rest of the process is awesome. Not always awesome, but like better. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. What, when you're on deadline for a book, what's your writing routine like? Or do you have one? Some, some writers do. I'm

Serena 20:48

not. I know I feel like I need to have one. I need to be better. I. My writing schedule's changed drastically over the years because I have children. So when your children are changing, your writing schedule is changing. That's when I have teenagers. One would think that I would have more time, but it just changes. So when I have a house full of kids, I don't get a lot done, and I'm getting really bad about leaving the house and riding in coffee shops, which I used to do a ton of when they were little and I need to go back to doing that. What I would say is I actually have a mentality where I write whenever I can, whenever I have a minute, and there is unfortunately really no schedule to it. So when they're in school, I'll sit down, be like, okay, I try to have a work week schedule 'cause my husband's working and the kids are in school. And that does work for the most part, pretty well. Summer, everything gets blown apart. But I love that I, as a writer, it's pretty brilliant. You do get to work for yourself. I can. I'll sit in my car while a kid is at a game or at a practice and write for an hour or so. That's my, yeah.

Jane 21:53

Very, no, I get it. Like you work it in, you make it happen in the fringes of your life whenever, especially when you have kids around and Yeah. Summertime. Yeah. I feel that completely. What advice do you have for aspiring authors about writing and about getting published?

Serena 22:11

I used to say just complete the work, like finish it. Because I think that so many people have potential to do excellent work and I think. Getting to, being able to find a way to complete something can be really challenging for people. I also have, what I've realized lately that I do and don't talk about enough and feel like is really important, especially in our world right now, is vocabulary. I think that the, our vocabulary is getting weaker, just even in just conversations with people. We don't have a lot of. Like actual range of words that we can draw from anymore. And as writers, I feel like the word on the page like that is what you're in control of. And the more words you have to express yourself, the more unique your voice will be. So I really think that learning a wide range of vocabulary and what I'm saying, I don't even mean big words or words people don't know about, I just mean a multitude of different kinds of words that might mean the same thing, or, and I used to have and have started to do it again, a running like document on my computer. Of any vocabulary word I come across in anything I'm reading that I don't know, and I write it down and then I literally print it out and stick it on my refrigerator. So I'm like always trying to pull as many new words into my. Writing as I can. That's just a range that will get, I just think it allows you to be more unique and more specific in the voice you're trying to create on the page.

Jane 23:42

I could not agree more and I think that's why all, a lot of writers say you need to read a lot. I, when I get away from reading for a little bit, I'm like, I have to at least have a book on, on audiobook or something. 'cause that. It makes you like language and vocabulary and it just, it makes you up your game, I think. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. And also I love, I have the books, like one of 'em is the emotional Thesaurus. Some writers put together with all these different words, and there's another one about the antagonist I think it is. And yeah, like sources like that are really fun too. Yeah. Yeah. Are you ready to share what you are working on next?

Serena 24:20

I am, yes. Oh,

Jane 24:21

awesome.

Serena 24:23

Supposed to be really far more done with it than I am. It's 1975 and it takes place in Washington DC and centers around a reporter from the Washington Post and the personal aid to Betty Ford. They were both real women. They are just i've completely diverged from the reality with their stories. For the most part, the reporter, I've kept a lot of her stuff real. 'cause her life's super cool and she's got a really great story. The aid I've taken, like one historical thing that happened and totally fictionalized a complete story between these women around this one like event. Oh, fascinating. When now when is that slated for? I it was supposed to be spring 26th, but now, or summer 26th, but now it's gonna be like fall 26th. Okay. Supposed to the manuscript. I'm trying to get it done by this fall, so it hopefully like a year. So technically fall 26. We'll see if that actually happens. Yeah, you go, you're busy, you just.

Jane 25:19

Let's see. Any, I don't see a lot of questions, but I had a couple more. Was it always called a promise to our la

Serena 25:25

Oh no. Is the book ever always called the thing you started with? I can't, someone asked me on my launch what did the, what did it? Was it before? And I was like, I went through so many iterations of titles like do not even remember. At one point it was called the War Portrait. That wasn't even the original title. I cannot, it went through so many titles. I find titles, I don't know if you find this with there are so many I people that get a say in your title. So my agent and editor and I come up with a list of 10 and they could all get thrown out when you take that to the marketing team. And I think they did. It's like they kept trying to find, I don't really know what they're looking for, marketing teams with titles. But I. We landed here. I don't even remember.

Jane 26:09

No I and I, it totally works. And did you have a say in this gorgeous cover, which is so south of France to me? It looks beautiful. Yeah, it's

Serena 26:17

beautiful. I did have a say. It was a slightly, the first cover was that, except the house looked far more Tuscan. Oh my God. Can you hear my dog? Is that the most annoying thing in the world? No, I didn't even hear it. Don't. The house was really Tuscan looking and the sky was really sunny. It looked like a Tuscan romance. And I was like, you know what, let's just make it a house look a little bit more like France. 'cause that house is really Tuscan and can we make the sky just a little stormier? And they were like, sure. And then they came back with this and I was like, yes. That's so good. The purple flowers are great. It's really pretty. I wasn't. Tend to feel like my covers are really feminine and I don't always love that. I'm like, can I just get a little bit more a Grier cover? And I tend to I didn't realize even masculine and feminine was what I was going for, but when my, I sent a cover, I loved to my editor, she's that's a really masculine, maybe I'm sexist by even saying a masculine feminine cover. I don't know. But flowers and, I, but I love it. I think it's beautiful and I actually think it, it works totally well and I've embraced the fact that I think it looks like a lovely.

Jane 27:18

Oh, it's beautiful. And I think that it was right to add the stormy atmospheric, to the background. I love it. Yeah. And oh, so I, we do have one question, which is a good one. Audrey Teman asks, are you doing author events, any author events coming up in Massachusetts?

Serena 27:34

I want to be, we were

Jane 27:37

just talking about this. Yeah,

Serena 27:38

we should. I just did my launch here in my small town of Greenfield and I was actually trying to get an event at a bookstore in Boston. I don't know if my publicist has done that. I don't have any lined up. I'll say that. Okay. But I would love to do it. And Jane, you and I talked about trying to line up something so maybe We'll, you can let your people know if that happens.

Jane 27:56

Yes, absolutely. And actually I will hook you up with a couple of the bookstores around here too, so you can, that'd be great. Yeah, that'd be awesome. So this was delightful. Thank you so much, Serena. Congratulations. It's a beautiful story, everyone. So a promise to our Let wherever books are sold. That's a wrap tonight. Thank you so much for coming on. Reminder that the women of Arlington Hall releases August 1st. And because of that, I'm taking the month of August off and I have a bunch of podcasts lined up for July. Some will be live like this, some will be offline. But but stay tuned, everyone, check my website and you'll get invitations to the live events. Thank you again, Serena. Have a thank you so much. It was really great.