Julia by Heather B. Moore

Bestselling author Heather B. Moore joins Jane Healey to discuss her richly researched new novel, Julia, which explores the extraordinary life of culinary icon Julia Child. From her surprising work in the OSS during World War II to her groundbreaking cooking career that began in Paris, Moore paints a vivid portrait of a woman who found her passion later in life and never looked back. The conversation dives into Julia’s love story with Paul Child, her relentless determination to publish Mastering the Art of French Cooking, and how Moore balanced fact and fiction in this biographical novel.

Transcript

Jane: 0:02

Welcome to Historical Happy Hour, the podcast that explores new and exciting historical fiction. I'm your host, Jane Healey, and in today's episode, we welcome Heather B. Moore to discuss her beautiful new novel Julia. Inspired by the extraordinary life of Julia Child, it released in September. Welcome, Heather.

Heather: 0:22

Thank you so much for having me, Jane. I'm really excited to be here.

Jane: 0:25

Me too. I'm so excited to talk all things Julia. So I'm gonna tell a little bio about you and then we'll dive right in. Okay. Okay. So Heather B. Moore is a USA today bestselling author of more than 90 publications. Heather writes primarily historical and her story fiction about the humanity and hero heroism of the everyday person publishing in a breath of genres. Heather dives into the hearts and souls of her characters. Mesh meshing her love of research with her love of storytelling. She's a Maggie Award winner, six time Witney Award winner, and two time Golden Quill Award winner among many other literary accolades. Welcome again. Welcome. Thank you for doing this.

Heather: 1:05

Thank you, Jane. I just am so excited because I have read a couple of your books this last year and I, we had talked a little bit about women of a Legian Hall, but I just feel like I just love your historical stories because. I just feel like they bring everything LEC and it's right along the alley of what I love to read and research as well.

Jane: 1:26

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I, when I was reading Julia, I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, we have a lot of, a lot in common that way, and I am just so excited to talk about you and your absolutely prolific career. Like, it's so impressive. So, but we'll start with Julia. So what inspired you to write a novel about the life of Julia Child?

Heather: 1:46

So it is kind of funny'cause, and as you know with the publishers, you're pitching a bunch of ideas. We had this pitch meeting, my last two books had been World War II era novels, and so they kind of wanted to stay in that same vein. And one of the editors said, well, you know, Julia Child, she served in the OSS during the war. And so that was kind of intriguing. So we kind of went down that path. But as I started writing it, I thought, I think the readers are going to want to know a lot more about Julia than just her warriors, because everyone's gonna want to. Well, how did she become this, the French chef? And have all these cooking shows and all these cookbooks. So I ended up like divided into part one and part two. Part one is her Warriors. Part two is her getting married and moving to Paris. Which I was so grateful I did'cause,'cause around the same time that I had maybe was halfway through my book, another wonderful story came out called The Secret War of Julia Child and it's by Diana Chambers and that covers her warriors. I'm like, I'm glad I didn't like. A hundred percent focus on that because we didn't really need duplicates out there, even though every writer writes their story a lot differently.

Jane: 2:58

Very much so. And yeah, this is more of like a, a whole arc of her life. And so let's, so let's talk about the incredible amount of research you did for this story, uh, about Julia and you know, what was your research process and were there, were there any surprises along the way? Anything that surprised you?

Heather: 3:17

For sure. Um, so usually when I start researching, I just, I start looking for biographies or anything, um, nonfiction contributions on the main character I'm writing about. So I just went to like Amazon and eBay and I got the biographies that look like they were the most credible because there is a lot written about her. And I even ended up with a book on just her cats. There's a book out there that is just about her cats, which, which of course I loved. So then I had, I probably had about six or seven books and I listened and I get'em on audio, listen to'em, and just kind of en mesh myself in the world. But I'm also reading the book and I know this sounds sacrilegious, marking up the book and underlining stuff and highlighting. Yeah. And then I take notes. And then I'm also kind of have a running log of notes so that when I am running a scene, I want it to happen like, well, when did Julia Child start? The cooking school at Le Cordon Blue in Paris, then I can go to all the references and kind of read this section in all those books. So I'm really getting a full picture. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think one of the challenges that any historical novelist finds is where to start your story. Where is it gonna be compelling? How much to put in Is there too, you know, you don't. How much will, what make it feel like authentic? How much research, but also you don't want it to be bogged down the story too much.'Cause you do want the story to move forward. And this book, actually, I consider it biographical fiction. It is a little bit of a slower, denser read because I, I don't have any fictional events or any fictional characters in it. Um, obviously I'm embellishing the story to make it novel, like I would say. Mm-hmm. As far as things that surprised me, so much surprised me because I just know Julia Child from a couple cookbooks growing up and maybe on the TV once in a while, but I never really followed her. My, my grandmother and my mother, their great home cooks, but I just never, I can cook and I will cook and my husband compliments my cooking, but I wouldn't say I am. A whiz in the kitchen at all. I definitely have to follow a recipe Exactly. To get anything to turn out. Right. But I think so much surprised me. I didn't know she was six foot two. I didn't know she grew up in Pasadena. I didn't know that she was a socialite and she, she never really learned to cook until she was serious about getting married to Paul. I didn't know she served in the OSS, I didn't know she lived in salon. I just thought maybe she was one of those girls that grew up loving to be in the kitchen with her mom or grandma, and that wasn't true at all, and she just had this wonderful, larger than life positive. About her. And so, it was so different writing her story and you probably had this experience when you kind of get in, try to figure out what's the voice of this character. I didn't really have to guess with Julia.'cause there's, you, you can go on YouTube and watch her cooking shows and so you can just see her in action. But it was like, it was so joyful to write about her. It was such a breath of fresh air. I've written some very hard, serious, semi depressing storylines and this was. Was not, I mean, she definitely went through her ups and downs and, you know, had enough, a lot of challenges in life with different, especially with her family, but it just was inspirational to me to see her just carve really this unknown passion and talent and just fight for it. Because especially in the fifties and the sixties when the culture norm was being a housewife and

Jane: 7:01

mm-hmm.

Heather: 7:01

She just. She loved being a housewife, but it wasn't. She wanted to do more than that and she didn't end up having children, and that was kind of heartbreaking for her. So she was really able to dive into this passion of hers.

Jane: 7:14

Absolutely. And yeah. And she was so la larger than life, big personality and you captured that. Um, I wanna talk about, um, one of the parts that I loved reading about was her time in the OSS in the Pacific Theater Operations where like her love of her love story with Paul started. That must have been really fun to write about. Like they're trying the different foods and they're going to all these different places. And so talk a little bit about that. Time in her life. It was kind of like this magical time when she's falling for Paul.

Heather: 7:46

Yeah, that was really fun to read about because she was 33 when she met Paul. And and she had actually had been in love with a man like about 10 years before and he kind of was a two timer and dumped her. And then she had this other really good friend in California that he wanted to marry her, but she just wasn't. Feeling like it was really a love match, I guess. So when she met Paul, like she had heard about him a lot'cause he was a friend of a mutual friend and so she's six two, right? And he is five nine. So the, her first impression, okay, he's short, he's balding and he's old'cause he's 10 years older and he was bing. And so their relationship started out as just kind of a friendship and it just grew and grew and it's fun to see that. Somebody's every like a romance novel and it's the friends still lovers trope. And this was really what it was for them. Mm-hmm.

Jane: 8:43

Um,

Heather: 8:43

he had actually been in a long-term relationship with another woman that had, had passed away. So he was kind of still in that grieving process that had only been like a year or so since he lost, um, that woman. But Julia was just opposite of the other. Women in every way. And I think that was, that helped Hall get through his own grieving and just feel like he had his kind of a second chance at life. But they were a really good match as far as marriage. I think in their case, opposites definitely attracted and he was very cultural. He. He spoke French fluently. He spoke actually multiple languages. He's very into the arts. He was a photographer and he was a huge reader, intellect. And Julia, she only did homework when she had to and she had passing grades like Cs and college and she only went to college'cause hers. Her mother's Alma, Alma Mater Smith College. And one of their favorite things, even as they were. An old married couple is Paul would reto and he would write her poetry, and it just really like, oh, I know that side of her that she never had

Jane: 9:51

you included a sonnet that he wrote her that I'd never seen before. I'm like, that's a, I didn't, I've never read that before. That was amazing. I, yeah, he was just this brilliant intellectual guy and they were such a good match. Uh, another thing that I loved about their relationship and just about Julia's story is, you know. Especially as like in as authors, like people, a lot of people talk about, oh, it's too late, it's too late for me to get a book published and, and her success didn't come until later in life. Um, if you wanna talk a little bit about that.

Heather: 10:24

Yeah, so I think she was 49 when her cookbook came out, and so she was 50 years old when she first started the French chef, so I think it was like 50 51. And so it was definitely inspirational about. Her perseverance and I mean she lived, I mean she did this for the next 40, you know, over 30 years. And so she just really just took it by storm. And I think one thing that inspired me is that the publisher, Kana Alfred Kna is the one that ended up doing her first cookbook, mastering the Art of French Cooking. And that was the third publisher is they went through rejections and revisions and cutting and chopping. No pun intended, and then more revisions. And so it just as a, as an author and a writer, it just, it impressed me, her perseverance. And then when her book came out, um, they did get a little spot on the date, the Today Show, and they got a couple. Signing events set up in the area in on the East coast, and she and her, she had two co-authors and one of the co-authors did come over from Paris and they just contacted every person they knew and they went on the road for the next three months and they just, every ladies literary club or lunch club, or. Apartment store that would have them. They went around and they did their little demonstrations of usually like omelets or different dishes and she really just hand sold her book until, yeah, they're able to get a second print run going.

Jane: 11:58

Unbelievable. Just so like the hustle that they went through. Mm-hmm. It's really inspiring too. And another, so to go back to the research,'cause you have amazing notes in the back. And you have these, you have various epigraphs at the beginning of each chapter, and some of them are like letters from Pauls who is brother. Mm-hmm. There was a quote from General Donovan of the OSS. What, how did you decide what epigraph to put at the beginning of each chapter? And then you also have notes at the back you know, about the source of each epigraph. I mean, I, I just love, you know, and a selected biography to bibliography too, which is the best. So talk a little bit about that.

Heather: 12:37

So that process comes from just as I'm doing the research and a quote just sticks out to me and I'll just like star it and say possible epigraph later. And so when I'm done with, basic, basically when I'm done with a book is when I usually put in the epigraphs. And so I'll go back through different quotes and see which ones. I don't know. That just really struck me as a reader and a researcher. Um, and I have done not all of my historical novels, but a lot of them, I'll do chapter notes because it helps me as a reader to have those sometimes.'cause I'm always interested, oh, if I love a book and I want to know more, or I want to know what is fact and what's fiction. And so the chapter notes kind of help with that and also gives me an opportunity to maybe explain something that I can't. In the context of a story or maybe defend a point, maybe I had to change something because of the plot or I had to shorten a timeline that took three years, but I shortened it to like one month. And that way I can explain it and not have readers like, what, you know, why does she do that? Or I feel like, kind of ruined the book'cause she did it that way.

Jane: 13:41

Yeah. It provides a nice context mm-hmm. For what's coming. And I, I love that. So to that. Point. Actually, this is my next question. So this is, you know, this is biographical fiction like at the end of the day, it's a novel. It's not, yeah, it's not nonfiction. I wrote goodnight from Paris was, um, my first novel that was biographical fiction by about the actress Drew latent Cartier during the war. Um, I found that incredibly difficult and just choosing what to balance fact versus fiction and just trying to color within the lines like. How did you find it and how do you balance? How did you balance fact for verse fiction and the storytelling and trying to figure out the arc and all of those things?

Heather: 14:23

Yeah, I mean, I think honestly, it's sometimes just. A day, day day, a day-to-day process. I am a little bit of a pants, obviously with historical framework. You have the historical outline there, but like day-to-day writing is, you're battling that like every day. And it's hard'cause'cause you're the really, the only one making the choice. And by the time, I guess to like, you know, if you have an agent or beta readers or mm-hmm. The editor stage, the editorial, it's really hard to go back and change things once you've decided. So once in a while, like, like I will, sometimes I'll email my editor or, um, I have kind of a, a group of friends where we kind of do this little chat group together and sometimes I'll bounce stuff off of them to, because you don't want it to be too slow or too detailed as far as slowing down the story. And I don't know if I really have a formula, but just. I kind of count pages in a chapter. I don't know why I do this, but usually I'm writing a book like a, his, like a full length, historical novel. 10 to 12 pages is kind of my average. And as I'm like maybe halfway through, I'm like, well, if I include all this stuff, it's not really gonna fit in the scene, or I have to condense it so I can make it. I don't know why I do that, but that's just. Kinda how, so? I'm, so I'm kind of looking at, at each chapter, not necessarily a standalone chapter, but it has to have kind of its own arc and it, and the end of it has to be fleet, the chapter, but also make you wanna read more. So that's something I'm always kind of thinking about too.

Jane: 15:56

Yeah, that makes total sense. What you talked about, you're a little bit of a pants and I, these are, I've got some writing questions here that I always ask. So what is your process like, your writing process? Are you a total pantser? Do you plot out a little? Are you somewhere in between?

Heather: 16:15

I think I'm somewhere in between. I have. I have plotted a couple books out. Um, usually that's when I've co-authored a little bit and when I co-author, we definitely plot, even though stuff happens, you know, that you don't expect, but you have to kind of have that framework together. But I would say I'll do research. Like, I kind of say, okay, I'm gonna give myself a month to read research, take notes, and sometimes I'll like, oh, I know I want a, a scene to. I need a scene where Julia and Paul meet, you know, and a scene where they're eating all the yummy Chinese food. They fall in love with. As seen when they get married. And so, but then I don't know where it's gonna really start and end and all the people that will be involved. Mm-hmm. And so, I don't do the spreadsheet thing like I do with a co-author, but as I start writing, like chapter one, and I usually do start chapter one. Some writers might start a little bit later and then they do chapter one later. But I usually do start chapter one. Then as I'm writing chapter one, I'll like just put a red highlighted note, add a cat or make sure you, you know, talk about her dog. And then the next day as I start writing, I always read what I wrote the day before. So I'm getting right into the voice and the atmosphere again. And then I read those little notes and see if those notes are gonna start fitting in or yet. So as I have like an idea, oh my gosh, you know, I need to make sure. We bring up, you know, when Paul's mom died or whatever. So I put that in a little note to make sure that I don't miss that.

Jane: 17:45

Mm-hmm. Interesting. Has your writing, I mean, you have this amazingly prolific career. Has your process changed over time? Like, do you write, I, is it different than when you first started out?

Heather: 17:59

I think it's definitely different'cause especially when I start a new book or I finally get that contract signed, it's almost like the weight is heavier'cause I know what I'm in for. Or I think when I first starting out you're just writing, you don't know if you get published and even when you do first get published, it's still are all sparkly a new, but like right now I'm, I'll probably be starting my next historical in January, so I'm looking up. Of January deep dive research. And then I'll just know February through, like basically June, I'll be having to, to be, really committed, getting my work count, that I have my work count goals every day. And so it's definitely, to me, it's more like a job than a hobby. Mm-hmm. And I think that just happens over time is but I also, I also love it, but sometimes I, in fact, yesterday I was just thinking. Am I really, I'm working on this. Little kind of self-published project right now, and I think, do I really wanna just finish this or do I wanna just wait until January to start my next week?

Jane: 19:01

Right. It's the holiday season. Maybe you need, yeah. Yeah. And so in terms of like, when you are on deadline, you were just talking about like mm-hmm. Do you have a, a writing routine, like a daily routine? Do you like go for word count? Do you go for hours? You work or like chapters done? Like how do you, how do you like get to the finish line? Like what's your routine like?

Heather: 19:23

Um, so it works better for me to go for word count, because some days I just feel super distracted. I can sit there for four hours in front of the computer and get like 200 words done. But if I know I'm trying to get a certain word count, then I'm gonna push myself. And some days I get my word count in like an hour or an hour and a half. It's like the muse is just singing praises and, but then I always say, okay, just stop now.'cause you had a wonderful writing day, but you're gonna get burned out if you. Keep going. Mm-hmm. And some days are slow just because I have to, I get kind of stuck like, oh wait, I have to go research this part, or I can't just, I can't wing it here. I have to really get this right because if I just kind of gloss over it, and then when I'm doing the second draft in three months, I'm gonna hate myself for not. Right deep diving because then I'll find something that you back yourself into a corner and you end up having something totally wrong, so.

Jane: 20:17

Mm-hmm. Yep. I feel you. Yep. Absolutely. I, so I was talking to Erica Robuck yesterday. We did a, a podcast recording. She just wrote the. Last assignment and also biographical fiction. And, and I find, like she was saying, and I, I feel this way too, like when I'm drafting that first draft mm-hmm. I've got like about four to five hours in me a day. I can't do more than that. And it seems like that's the number. A lot of authors say it's around there. Do you feel that way?

Heather: 20:45

Yeah, definitely. Like I'm more of a morning writer and usually kind of by lunchtime, like I like. Like your brain is just kind of done. Like I could not write eight hours a day and I've done gone to those writing retreats and I still sometimes kind of just stay on my normal writing schedule and maybe do some other stuff for rest of the time because I don't know, I, when I push myself too much, it's, it's just not fun. I, you wanna enjoy it and you know what? It's work. We know it's work. But the creative process, you can't just burn yourself out like that. So

Jane: 21:19

I agree. There. You need to have some balance. So I always ask this, you've written this astonishing number of books. What's the best advice you can give writers out there about writing and getting published?

Heather: 21:32

Um, I would just perseverance obviously is really important. It really does help. Help me to have the word count goals and I write and I'll write down. So like say I'm at Word count 5,000, and then I do a thousand doll or a thousand words, I'll just write the 6,000 so I can see like my list growing every day. It's just at the end of my manuscript. Mm-hmm. So that helps me visually. One thing too is having a writing community, people that are really supportive, whether it's someone you check in with once a week, I just have a couple really good friends. I have this chat group with, and we, we just chat about everything, but we're also all writers, so we understand the highs and lows and the pain and. No one, our family cares that, you know, we hit our word count goal that day or whatever, but we carry. So it's great to have kind of a tribe surrounding you. The other thing too is that there's so many publishing options right now is you shouldn't be thinking if I get this published, you will get it published and you can publish it yourself. And there's a professional, wonderful way to self-publish. And I also self-publish. Um. So that, but you do want to make sure you have a good product. So don't be afraid to have people read for you and give you feedback and know it's not'cause they don't like you. They want your book to be better. And, but you also have to kind of limit, um, you don't wanna workshop your book year after year. You want to say, okay, this book is good enough to start sending out or to self-publish. But we all learn like your first book, even if you workshop it like crazy. And it comes out like me. I finally did get a book traditionally published. It took me like three years when I first started writing. And I never tell people to read that book first.'cause I know I've grown a lot since a writer. And it just is everybody's journey.

Jane: 23:18

Absolutely. That's so, so true. So speaking of your backlist, you've written in multiple genres. Do you have a favorite? Do, is there one that you prefer?

Heather: 23:28

Um, so I've done everything from like mostly historical fiction, like I have. Done biblical fiction. And I actually just had a book come out on, it's a New Testament story on Elizabeth and Zacharias, who are the parents of John the Baptist. And every time I write one of those biblical novels I'm just like, I'm never gonna do this again. I dunno why, then I have to do it again. But, um, so I don't know if I would say that's my favorite, but I also feel like it's, it gives value to the genre that it's in. I probably would just say historical fiction of someone I can find. Just something to connect with. So I did, I did, this is actually a book I self-published is I wrote a story of my 10th great grandmother that was accused of witchcraft in the same and witch trials and. I ended up self-publishing it and I, about six years ago I got an email from the Salem Witch Museum in Salem and they said they wanted to carry my, and I'm like, this is like really amazing for me. So they carried my book and they still carry it. And then in 2023 I went back there and did a signing and I went, I traveled, I went through Boston. I just love Boston. And I was able just to kind of see the east coast a little bit. But anyway, so that was kind of felt like kind of a. I don't know if it was a bucket list in the beginning, but it definitely felt like a pinnacle of my career because I still get emails from people that are my cousins that were all related to the same ancestor. Wow. I'm in this Facebook group with this ancestor. But otherwise, most of what I, um, self-publish is more like women's fiction or the sweet small town romance stuff. And those are, I just call'em kind of my vacation rights, like in between. Bigger historical projects, I'll write something kind of fun and that's when I do a lot of co-authoring and collaborating with other authors on. So it just, it just makes it kind of a fun community to be in.

Jane: 25:18

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Do you, did you always wanna be a writer?

Heather: 25:24

No, that's the funny thing. I, I started writing when I was 30 years old and before that I was just a huge reader and I wanted to, oh, when I was in high school, I took like AP English. It was one of my favorite classes'cause I just,'cause I love to read and. I ended up failing the AP exam for college because my essay got a really bad score. I'm still not a good essay writer, but it's a hold up, so I decided another animal. Yeah, because it's like that five paragraph essay where you introduce and then you re then you the three points and then you conclude. I just thought it was like a waste of time because you're repeating so much, but, so my attitude definitely bled through and so in college I majored in fashion merchandising. I love fashion. I love. Sewing and all that kind of stuff. And it wasn't until I was so I, I had lived in California for, I had actually, my husband and I lived in Hawaii, then California. Then we moved to Utah where I had a lot of family. And my grandma wanted someone to help her with her personal history. And she said, well, Heather's a good writer. And that she just said that,'cause we would always write letters back and forth. So she didn't mean like I was a good wordsmith. I was just. Writing her letters. So I helped her and I just had a story idea and she was like a married woman during World War ii, and she would go around and sell war bonds. So I kind of just had a story set in her era. So I wrote it, I wrote a short story, and it just got longer and longer. And I thought, I'm gonna submit a short story to Good Housekeeping Magazine or a Red Book.'cause back then they would publish little Novelettes. Anyway. And so when I. Kind of wrote this whole story. I was like, I think I just wrote a book. I don't know what to do with it. And of course it's horrible, terrible, would never be published. But it sent me on the road of I sought out a, a writer's league. I'd go to their chapter meetings. I ended up in a critique group and that's when I actually learned to write is I felt like I was going back to college, is I didn't Yeah. Pay attention to any of that in high school. And now I was learning it hands on.

Jane: 27:22

Yeah. Excellent. Very cool. Are you ready to share what you're working on now or not yet?

Heather: 27:29

Yeah, so I can just kind of, so I just, I just had a book accepted by my publisher and it's called Her America. It is about eight different women throughout history who help transform the nation. So there's a few suffragists in there, and there's just different, like Eleanor Roosevelt is in there, just different women. And so that one is gonna be coming out next year in October, and I am right now. My pitch was accepted, so hopefully I'm not going to like jinx this and I'm gonna write a novel on Coco Chanel of her most warrior starting in the fifties. She went to exile in Switzerland for about nine years after the war'cause she was accused of being a Nazi supporter. So when she comes back to Paris, she dives back into the fashion world. And she competes with that Christian Dior. And this is when. She invents her cute little purse and she, so the perfume has been out for decades, but. And then does like her little boxy suit, the Chanel suit and all that stuff. So I'm in, I'm excited about that because my major for four years in college was, was fashion merchandising. So you maybe I should like use that one of these days.

Jane: 28:43

Oh, that sounds like such a fun project. And her, and she's such an, in like fascinating character in history. Mm-hmm. Like, and like you said, be beyond just the warriors. So Oh, good luck with that. Um, how can readers best stay in touch with you?

Heather: 28:59

So I'm on Instagram and like Threads and X and Facebook, so I'm pretty much everywhere. Instagram is probably where I'm the most active, and so just I think as author HB Moore or Heather, maybe more or something, but it'll pop up whenever you do a search, so

Jane: 29:14

yeah, that'd be great. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Heather, thank you. I wish you so much luck and you're such an inspiration with your like, hugely prolific career and I of course love this book'cause you know, I love Julia. So thank yes, thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it. That's a wrap. Thank you for listening to historical happy hour. Don't forget to follow or subscribe on YouTube and um, and Heather, I'll be in touch when the episode comes out. Thank you so much.

Heather: 29:41

Thank you.