The Einstein Conspiracy by Steve Israel

Bestselling author Jane Healey welcomes author, former U.S. Congressman, and bookstore owner Steve Israel to discuss his latest historical thriller, The Einstein Conspiracy. Inspired by the Long Island cottage where Albert Einstein wrote his pivotal 1939 letter to President Franklin D. Roosevelt warning of Nazi atomic ambitions, Israel shares the remarkable true history behind the novel, his extensive research into Nazi activity in America, and the challenge of balancing historical accuracy with the pace of a spy thriller. The conversation also explores writing process, historical fiction, the importance of independent bookstores, and why stories from the past continue to resonate with readers today.

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Welcome to the Jane Healey Happy Hour, the podcast that explores new and exciting novels of all genres. I'm your host, bestselling historical fiction author Jane Healey, and in today's ep- episode, we welcome author and congressman Steve Israel to discuss his latest novel, The Einstein Conspiracy, which has been called a gripping, impeccably researched thriller that captures a nation at a crossroads. Again, welcome, Steve. I should hold up the book. Jane, I, I am such a fan and so honored to be doing this with you. Thanks for having me on. Thank you so much. Um, I'm gonna do a little bio on you, and then, um- Sure I will, we will go into my tons of questions. All right. Steve Israel served in the US Congress from 2001 to 2017, including as chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. He later opened Theodore's Books, an independent bookstore in Oyster Bay, and now directs the nonpartisan Institute of Politics and Global Affairs at Cornell University's Brooks School of Public Policy. Israel is the author of three novels, most re- recently The Einstein Conspiracy. His commentary has appeared on CNN, MSNBC, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The Atlantic. He also leads Little Round Top Productions, supporting film, television, and stage projects. Again, welcome. Oh, good to be with you. Thank you. So, um, I love to read how authors came up with their ideas for stories, and so I wanna talk about, this was the result of a car ride where you came across a cottage where Albert Einstein penned a famous letter. So can you talk about the idea, how where the idea for the story came about? Sure. I had the idea when I was serving in, in the House of Representatives. I served from 2001 to 2017, and I loved- Coming upon these moments in history, and I know that you and I agree on that, these kind of lesser-known moments in history that helped change the fate of the world. Uh, and one day I happened to be driving on the North Fork of Long Island, and I had heard a rumor that Albert Einstein actually lived there in a little cottage overlooking a harbor. And, uh, I convinced my wife to come with me and see if we could find that cottage. Well, we did. It's still there. Hasn't changed much since 1939 when Albert Einstein lived there. But what was historic about that h- house, Jane, was that that was where he wrote a letter to, uh, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, to President Roosevelt in the summer of 1939, warning him that Adolf Hitler was developing an atom bomb, and that the United States needed to begin a, a crash program of atomic research. What kind of pulled at me, and I'm curious about your... about how, how you respond to these, kind of these moments, uh, and these tugs. What tugged me on that was that I knew that Albert Einstein was a lifelong pacifist. Mm-hmm. And I began wondering, like, what was it? What brought him to the point where he was, he had repudiated his pacifism and was now writing a letter to President Roosevelt urging him to build a bomb capable of incinerating entire cities. So I began doing some research. I learned that the Nazis had an aggressive effort to, uh, do harm to Albert Einstein. That, uh, the Nazis- Mm had a very sophisticated spy network throughout, uh, the United States. So I put it all together and, uh, began working on this book. So interesting. So talk about your research for the story. I love re- I love to talk about research process. Mm-hmm. I'm such a research nerd. I'm sure you are too. What was your process f- in terms of research, and what, you know, was there anything that you were really surprised by? W- w- anything you discovered that was surprising? Uh, well, I'm like you, I love the research, but as you know, it's hard to pull off a, uh, work of fiction, uh, that is based on nonfiction, right? Our, our... the bargain that we have with readers is they're gonna pay us money for a book, and they want to enjoy that book. They want to learn something. Mm-hmm. But they gotta keep turning the pages. Uh, and so I had to always be tempering my research. My agent and my my editors, you know, warned me that, you know, y- if you wanna write a nonfiction about, uh, Albert Einstein's letter, go ahead. Probably no one will buy it. But if you wanna write fiction, you know, just keep it keep it propulsive. So I, um, uh, my approach was to learn everything I could. You know, when you're dealing with a real-life character, you have to have fidelity to that character. Uh, when you write- Mm-hmm fiction, you can create, uh, uh, figments of your imagination or features of your imagination. You can build characters with depth and complexity based on your own creativity, but when you're dealing with a real person, you have to be true to everything from mannerisms, thought processes, uh, dialect, and so I read everything I could about Albert Einstein and other real-life characters who surrounded him that, that summer. I once asked Erik Larson, uh, who I think is one of the best, uh, writers of- Ah historic non- So good I once asked him, uh, I moderated a conversation on his most recent book, Demon of Unrest, about Fort Sumter. Mm-hmm. And I said, "How do you avoid falling into that research rabbit hole, where you end up spending days trying to research and explore, uh, something?" And he, he gave me the greatest response. He said, "I just fall deeper." Uh, and- Ah isn't that great? So, uh, you know, I, I didn't wanna fall too deep because it, again, it's fiction. It's a propulsive spy thriller, but I love bringing in those, those real-life moments and people and historic anecdotes. Yeah, I, I, and that's what I mean, I think that re- you know, when you read, like, some sort of fun random fact about Al- Albert Einstein or their era, that's the stuff that readers love too. Yeah. Like, did that really happen? I didn't know that. You know, I, I love that. I, so that actually, one of my other questions was what was your character development process like? Because I've written biographical fiction and- Mm-hmm complete historical fiction. I find writing about a real person in history much more difficult. I think it's a blessing and a curse when it's a real person, even, you know. And so what was, what was your character development process like for Einstein and the other characters in this story? So Einstein, um, and I became best friends for the four years that I, I worked on this, uh, on this project, and I began by reading Walter Isaacson's kind of seminal biography, uh, about him uh, genius. Oh, yeah. Then I began reading as much as I could about Einstein by Einstein. So, uh, and this, that was tough because I, I really sucked in science and physics- as a dude growing up on Long Island. I read his speeches. So I, he... I didn't have to develop his character. He deve- he, he developed it for me. The trick was inserting that character into these moments of vulnerability where the Nazis- Mm-hmm were closing in on him a- as they did. And getting into his mind, particularly on the issue of how... what brought him to this moment where he was willing to renounce his life- lifelong pacifism to warn FDR. What I learned about him, which fascinated me, and I thought so f- fit into the story, was he was vulnerable and clever at the same time. So there wa- you know, he didn't care about his own security. Many, many true stories about how his wife, Elsa, would yell at him because he wasn't careful, uh, despite the fact that the Nazis had tried to kill him, uh, at least twice that we know of. There were probably other operations that failed, but we know of, of two. So he has this vulnerability, this kind of the caricature of Einstein walking barefoot, tying a rope around his pants. Uh, you know, the crazy hair. But he was also quite clever. He knew that caricature of himself, that image, was popular enough to give him, to put him on the front pages of The New York Times. Mm-hmm. To make him a true celebrity, and he used that celebrity to advocate on behalf of Jews in Germany, and ultimately, to get a letter to, to Roosevelt saying, "Build the bomb." Yeah. So remarkable. S- such a... yeah. I, like I said, I'm obsessed with this- Mm-hmm era and history. I wanna talk about the historical context now too. I was aware of the pro-Nazi rally in- Mm-hmm Madison Square Garden, um, in 1939, was it? It was... W- was that the year of- February. February of 1939. That's exactly right. Yeah, 20,000 people. Yeah. Um, 'cause I wrote about it in my novel, The Goodnight From Paris. And- I loved Oh, thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. And I was, um, I was surprised reading about it at the time during the research at- Mm-hmm what a large pro-Nazi presence, including Charles Lindbergh, w- in America at that time period. And I'm wondering, like, are readers when they read this story surprised at how, at the- Yeah pro-Nazi movement in America at the time? I think that was the, the research that stunned and shocked me the most. Yeah. How normalized and open- the pro-Nazi movement was. Uh, you know, that rally at Madison Square Garden where the marquee that night, uh, said hockey game on Wednesday, pro-America rally tonight. And it wasn't a pro-America rally. It was a pro-Nazi rally where you had swastikas, as you know- Yes swastikas draped around the garden- Mm-hmm next to a banner of George Washington. And speakers calling for the, uh, just extraordinary deep hatred against Jews. They even, uh, in their speeches they criticized President Roosevelt calling him Roosevelt, as if he was Jewish. Yeah. So just the deep anti-Semitism normalized because it was at Madison Square Garden. And then the second thing I learned which just knocked my socks off was there was a Nazi camp, uh, operating on Long Island. Now I knew about this place. It's called, it was called German Gardens in a, a town called Yaphank And so I'd known about it. I had known that this is where Nazi Americans trained. Tens of thousands of people would converge on this place to practice goose step marching, uh, to call for the extermination of Jews in America. I knew all about that. I also knew that the streets in this community were named officially by the County of Suffolk, Adolf Hitler Street, Hermann Göring Street, Joseph Goebbels Street. Oh, gosh. Could you believe that? No. That American flags flew next to swastika banners. But here's what I didn't know until I did the research, went down that rabbit hole. So normalized was this place that the Long Island Rail Road, a government entity, a government authority, decided that they could profit from it, and they ran special trains to Yaphank on weekends called the Camp Siegfried Special, where these people would dress up like Nazis, Brown Shirts, with their swastika lapel pins and their swastika banners, get on the Camp Siegfried Special, pay their tickets, go out to Yaphank, have a day of hatred, and then head back to Penn Station in New York City. That was sanctioned, normalized by the government. And so I try and bring that in a very significant way into the story. Here's Albert Einstein fleeing the Nazis, comes to America where he believes he's safe. Little does he know that not very far away from where he lives is a community that names its streets after Adolf Hitler. Yeah, I had never heard of that camp or those- Mm-hmm that community. That was unbelievable. Yeah. So I'm sure people m- must always be like, "Was that even true?" You know, when they're reading this. It's crazy. To your- Yeah to your point, the g- greatest feedback I've had on this book is when people say, "You know, I read this passage, and I, I just didn't think it could be true, so I Googled it, and I got goosebumps when I learned- Yeah it happened." Crazy. Crazy. I, uh, uh, also to the historical context, I want to read a part of a review from the Times of Israel and have you comment on it- Mm-hmm 'cause I, I loved it. "The Einstein Conspiracy succeeds because it does what the best novels do. It enlarges our moral imagination while sharpening our moral clarity. It reminds us that history is not safely behind us, that evil does not announce itself politely, and that defending a humane, rules-based society sometimes requires painful and difficult choices. This is a novel with urgency, depth, and relevance." First of all, what a beautiful review. Yes. But talk about- the relevance, and I think, you know, I think a lot of us are looking at history and how history repeats itself, and we can talk about the theor- theory of, like- Mm-hmm the 80 to 100 year kind of- Mm-hmm things start over again. Um, talk about that and the relevance of this story in, in, in the late 1930s and nor- 1940s to today. It's such a great question, Jane. Um, what really propelled me in this book was not just writing a thriller that I hope people would buy, but letting people know that h- the hate that we see today, and I don't care whether it's on the left or the right- that that there's... it's not new and that it was even- Nope normalized. And I have to say, uh, you know, when I... with all due respect to everybody's politics, this is not a partisan statement. When I see that hate expressed either on college campuses, uh, where people are saying, "Death to..." anybody, or- Mm-hmm when I see it on s- on T-shirts on January 6th at the Capitol where I used to work, T-shirts that said Camp Dachau or Camp Auschwitz, that's not very far away from what we saw in the 1930s. No. And so I did want to make those times relevant to the choices that we must make today. Yeah, no, it, it was, um... and that, that was, that... I felt like that review really framed it- Mm-hmm you know, in terms of what you were trying to do. I have some writing questions- Yes um, that I ask everybody. What is your process like? This is your third novel. Are you a plotter? Do you plot things out? Do you write by the seat of your pants? Is it somewhere in between? H- what's your process? So my first two books were political satires that I wrote while I was in Congress as therapy. And political satires, uh, I have to say are easier to write. It's tongue in cheek. It's kind of, it's moving briskly. You know, my Christopher Buckley, uh, was my kind of mentor- Mm in writing satire. Carl Hiaasen. Plot structure is not as complex as a spy thriller, as you well know. Uh- No. And so my process was... my satire's... literally I'd be sitting on the floor of the House or in a c- a committee hearing, and I would hear somebody say something totally absurd, and say to myself nobody would ever believe this if I told them, and nobody would care about it if I wrote it as a n- as a nonfiction. So I'll write it as satire, and this is how I'll tell people what really goes on in the doors behind the doors of the Capitol." This was different and so my writing process had to adjust to it. The first- Year and a half, I kind of blended writing. I wake up, uh, first thing in the morning, I'm curious about your own writing regimen. Mine w- is, and for some reason, my subconscious is still very active when I wake up. My imagination is firing. I have a greater tolerance for what seems to be implausible, uh- in the morning. And so I just write, write. Then I will spend as much time as I have during the day doing some fact-checking, doing some research. And so I would go back and forth. And finally, that process, um, 50/50 research and writing at the beginning, but as I did the research, I would realize, I'm sure you went through this as well, that something I wrote five chapters ago didn't make sense anymore because the research- I know. Yes right? Is, right, so I can see you're having your own PTSD right now. A little later. The research required that I go back, right? Mm-hmm. And, and look at something, and that changed the balance and changed the plot. So there was a lot of back and forth on that. And then finally, I'd say the final six months, I had an exceptional editor at a, uh, publishing, a company called Compass Rose. The final six months was responding to his notes to, you know, to keep the book propulsive. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, I'll, I'll tell you, you know, my, uh, that Madison Square Garden incident that you wrote, it's, it's in the book Jane, I wrote 20 pages. I, I had it down to what they were serving at the kiosks- in Madison Square Garden. 20 pages, and my editor his note was kind of reflects what I said before, "If you wanna write a book about the Madison Square Garden rally in February 1939, go for it, but you're not writing a book about that, so trim this from 20 pages down to four." Have you ever gone through that? Oh, yeah. I think that, like, as, as writers and researchers we're like, "But this is so interesting." Yeah. Uh, but, you know, and it... but it does- if it doesn't move the narrative forward- Exactly you know, that- that's when the editors are like, you can cut this down to a paragraph." Yeah. Like, it doesn't have to be... Yeah. And it's the most... Isn't it the most painful thing that you go through- It is, right? It's the cut part of it. Kill your darlings. I know. That's right. That's right. So true. And so I'm a- so this is really your first historical fiction novel, then. Yeah. I'm always interested about, like, how did you balance historical fact versus weaving in the fiction to make it a thriller, and were there any kind of rules you adhered by? Yeah. How did you do that? So I, I have two, uh, I had two very good mo- uh, models. One was, uh, Forsyth's Day of the Jackal. Mm. Uh, about an attempted assassination of the French, uh, President, uh, de Gaulle. Mm-hmm. Which we know didn't happen, but, uh, he... I think structurally that's kind of the gold standard for making that balance between history, fidelity to history, not rewriting- Mm-hmm history, but keeping people on the edge of their seat at all times. Mm-hmm. And the other was Ken Follett's Eye of the Needle. Yeah. About a German agent who is trying to figure out whether the Allies are going to invade France and where, uh, where in France. Uh, also just filled with, uh, just gripping historic detail, but always moving, always- Mm-hmm moving propulsively. Yep. Keepin' it along. So I, I kind of studied that structure, uh- Mm-hmm and tried to weave that discipline into the book. I love Follett. I, he has a really great online course on, um, BBC Maestro that I took. Ah. Like, it's like- Did you? you know... Yeah, the- it's really good, and he se- Yeah he seems like a delightful guy, and he's so brilliant. Mm-hmm. And yeah, I found that really helpful. Mm-hmm. Um, so what part of the writing process do you find the most challenging, and what part do you enjoy the most? Well, I enjoy when my imagination can, just ends up splashing on a page. Uh- Mm-hmm I enjoy that creative pro- just the creativity, the creative process. The hard part is, uh, my, my own kind of struggle was, again balancing my love of history and these historic moments and oddities with my love of a reader- who's gonna wanna keep reading. Yes. Um, so that was, you know, very often a struggle. I'd come upon something extraordinary that Einstein did, or that the FBI was doing, or that Hoover, J. Edgar Hoover did. Oh, he was a good character too. And... Oh, isn't he? Isn't he? Oh. And, um, you know, I would have to just kind of throttle back, throttle back- Mm-hmm uh, give a flavor of the history, keep it authentic, but- Yes keep the pages turning. Yes. I, I always... I, you know, I was saying to... I was at a conference this weekend with a bunch of writer friends, and I feel like for every page that's in one of my books, there's, like, seven pages that didn't end up in there, you know, the- Right research and tidbits that you couldn't include, you know? But that's how you get it done, I guess. So. Yeah. Um, I wanna read this quote that I loved, um- Mm-hmm from, It was a New York Times essay that you wrote called Why a Book Tour Is More Brutal Than a Political Campaign. "Writing a book is deeply personal. Politicians put on protective gear. Fiction's writers take it off, fully exposing their creativity, emotions, fantasies. It's like unburdening oneself on a therapist's couch, only every reader on earth is your therapist." So talk about this difference. I loved it. I thought it was so funny- Thank you and s- and so, so painfully true. I think it went kind of viral. So look, 16 years in Congress, I was a town board member. I'd been through election after election. I represented New York. People are not shy about telling you how much you suck, uh- Oh, I'm sure in, in New York if you're, if you're a politician. They will just get right in your face, and it didn't bother me in the slightest. It didn't, because I knew, okay, their politics is different than mine. They're not happy about a vote that I cast. Maybe they had a fight with a spouse, and they're in a bad mood. Would roll off me. My second book, Big Guns, which is a satire of the influence of the gun lobby in Congress, I was invited to a book signing in in Sharon, Connecticut. There's an old library in, in sh- in Sharon, Connecticut, and it was packed with authors at tables signing books, and I had this stack of Big Guns. And I was used to, as a member of Congress, I was in Congress at the time, I was used to people coming up to me. I was on television all the time, MSNBC, CNN, Fox. Mm-hmm. Wherever I went, I was used to people coming over and asking for a picture or shaking hands. But in this case, nobody was interested. And, and part of that was because there were, like, best-selling... Simon Winchester was ne- was on one side of me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm, yep. There were these best-selling historic authors, and I'd have this pile, and people... The, the title of the book was Big Guns. It was a satire. And people would come and pick up the book, and like a piece of spongy fruit- At some point, they'd like throw it back down, and it just, it wrecked my soul. It just wrecked me. It's so... I know. It's soul-crushing. You know? It's like- It's so humbling and soul-crushing. It's like- It's soul-crushing, and I'd be like, "Why?" So I began thinking, "Why do I take this personally?" But I didn't take personally somebody using the F word to me in front of my kids. You know, when I was- yeah and it's because, as you know, as any writer knows, there's nothing more personal than writing a book. Nope. It's, it's your... You're pouring forth your soul, your dreams, your imagination. Yes. And so you do take it more personally when somebody rejects it. I remember one guy coming up to that pile, and he goes, "Big Guns." He goes, "Will this help me kill bears?" I was like... I turned to my wife- Come on and said, "We're getting out of here." Yeah. It only takes two months. And we're out. Yeah, that's- Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's why I can't read bad reviews. Like, I c- you know, I'll read the positive ones, but my husband reads- I with you the bad ones for me. That's ri- And I bet he says, "Eh, it wasn't so bad," right? But- Yeah, right, right you get it, you take it as, like, a knife through your gut, right? Oh, it'll ruin my day- Yeah if I read a bad review. Yes. So I can't do it. Yeah. So you are currently a bookstore owner, which I love indie bookstores. Oh, thank you. Um, is there, like, any sales data or customer feedback or interactions that has shaped the way you write fiction? Very much so, and it was very, very helpful in this process and in the process of writing, um, The Einstein Conspiracy. My, my store, it's a small independent bookstore located in Oyster Bay, Long Island. It's called Theodore's Books. Why? Theodore's Books, that's right. Because Theodore Roosevelt lived up the block from us. Amazing and that's where he lived and died, and he wrote and read. There were 7,000 books on his shelves on the night he died. And so now I had a different perspective, and that perspective was not what do I wanna write, but what do my customers wanna read? So my mantra in politics when I was in Congress is you meet voters where they are and then tug them along. Don't preach to them what you think. Tap into how they feel. Mm-hmm. And then try to bring them along if possible. And I would, I talk to my customers all the time, and I see what they're reading, and I ask them, and that's what really helped me strengthen the discipline of writing, not just to express myself, but writing to meet the interest of readers who enjoy history, historic fiction, and spy thrillers Excellent. So interesting. So a- actually, that, that was a question I meant to ask you regarding the spy thriller for, like, structure. Did you think a lot ab- uh, 'cause structure is something I'm kind of obsessed with now, and I wasn't in the beginning of my writing career, and I should have been, honestly. Like, did you think a lot about structure, uh, when you were mapping out the different perspectives and- Oh, boy and different short chapters and... Or was that something that kind of evolved with your process? So the first draft, no, uh, I wasn't thinking about structure. I'd never written a spy thriller before. My editor asked me to study this technique called Save the Cat!. Do you know about Save the Cat!? Yes. Oh, I'm a big fan. Yeah. You're a big fan. Yeah. So my editor helped impose some structure and said, "Look, you know, you gotta have a certain number of beats, and in each beat- Mm-hmm you have to have a certain, certain content." I will confess that I found it a little, at times, and I'm curious about your response, a little too formulaic at times. Mm-hmm. A little too confining. And so I, I guess I adhered to a more relaxed version of Save the Cat! where the beats didn't dictate the story, but they did impose some guardrails for me, and kept me- Mm-hmm in the lane. Did you ever, in your own, uh, experience, did, did, did you- Yes rigidly adhere to Save the Cat!? I, so... I... That's funny you say that. I find the same thing. Like, I- Mm-hmm the Save the Cat! structures, 'cause there's many, multiple structures that Save the Cat! offers in their- Mm-hmm in her book, Save the Cat! Writes a Novel. Yes. Um, I fi- it's so granular though, that it can zap your creativity. Like, if you're so worried about, like- Yeah getting all these little pieces in... So I kind of look at it as, like, tent poles, like, a th- it, it- Love it act one, act two, act three. Love it. Where I kind of have to aim to hit in the middle. So, you know, I think the m- middle is the hardest part for me, so, like, that... It helps me kinda map that out. Yeah. But you're right, I d- I also don't like to be confined by it because because that, you know, it's... it can really suck your creativity. Oops, sorry. Yeah. My thing froze. Yeah, so, so yeah, I, I, I completely understand what you're what you're talking about there, for sure. I remember it got so granular that, you know, I was told that by... I- in the first 5% of the book, which basically takes you to page eight, right? Right you gotta have two beats, one foreshadowing, and one a hint of vulnerability in your lead character. And- Yes, or like, and, or stating the theme, and I'm like- Yes "Oh, come on." Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, uh, if it's adding more stress to the creative process, that's not good. Right. But I, I do find like kind of the, to hitting the major points along the way- You do helps me keep it structured. Yeah. Yeah. And I think readers want authenticity. I mean, a reader- Yes knows when something's formulaic and not. Um- Oh, yeah. And they'll tell you. And they'll tell you, that's right. Yeah. And they, they'll stop buying the books, uh- Yeah at my store. So I think I agree with you. Using it, I love that, using it, um, as kind of a tent pole- but not a rigid requirement of hitting- Mm-hmm every beat and every percentage of the book, et cetera, et cetera, is useful. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So what advice do you have for someone who's always dreamed of writing a novel but has never taken the leap? Ooh, that's a good question. So the first bit of advice I would, uh, g- uh, have is make sure you have plenty of aspirin, and a bottle of wine as, as you're writing. No, um, look, I, the best advice I give, uh, I'm sure you give the, the b- the, the same advice, is just start writing. Just start writing. Yeah. Um, don't plan too much. Don't... You know, I, I never did an outline in my life. Never did an outline for any of my books. I have a Substack. I don't outline my essays. I write for The Atlantic and The Times, uh, elsewhere. Um, and my own experience is that you want your imagination to take the story. At a certain point you are going to need a sense of direction, and that's where an outline comes in. So I begin my outlines when I'm about halfway through the book. Um- Yeah not at the beginning. Mm-hmm. And, and so the more you, you worry about process and the beats and the outline and the structure, the less your imagination is working. So err on- Yes initially, err on the side of your imagination. Let it fire, and you can always take care of everything else in your editing process. Yeah, I completely agree. Do you- And I also think j- j- the just start writing, it's like, just get out of your own way and give yourself permission to start writing. Don't worry. Like, don't worry about where it's going- Yeah or, like, the, getting, 'cause if you don't sit down and actually butt in chair they always say- Mm-hmm like, you're never gonna do it. So- Yeah so it's true. Are you working on any new writing projects that you wanna share? Um, I have been asked about a sequel to Einstein. I've had this one character who's based on a real person an FBI agent who happened to be the second African American special agent of the FBI in the history of the Bureau, a real person, and people have become very intrigued by that character. His name is- Mm James Amos. Talking about research, I looked high and low for information about this guy. I knew that he was Theodore Roosevelt's bodyguard, and I ended up having to pay an inordinate amount of money to a rare book dealer in Australia who had the last surviving copy of James Amos' autobiography. I've been there. I've had to do that too. You... Right? Yeah. So, you know, I read that. And so people have said to me, "Boy, what a great sequel." I, I was at Vroman's Bookstore in California last month. I'm still- Great news for the book is I, I keep thinking the book tour is over, but we keep adding dates. Oh, that's great. Uh, and so I was out at Vroman's in Pasadena, which is an amazing bookstore, and a few people from some studios came and they said, "You know, we're interested in this James Amos character. We think there may be something." And they're looking at it, but you and I both know that a book adapted for any kind of, um, whether it's film or television limited series, it depends on how well the o- original book does. You can have the greatest idea- Yes the greatest character, but the book has to do well. Thankfully, we're- Mm-hmm overperforming right now, but we're not yet- Good at the point, book just came out in November, we're not at the point yet where I feel like it, the book has the legs necessary to get snapped up for an adaptation. Um, but I've already started, as I'm sure you do I've already started thinking and doing a little bit of writing on, uh, where a sequel would take us. Same kind of period, post-Einstein, uh, during World War II, Nazi spy rings operating in New York, and this African American FBI agent trying to track them down. So that would be the premise. Excellent. That's, like, right up my alley. I love those ki- Mm-hmm obviously. I love that era. I love that. Mm-hmm. So good luck with that. That's exciting. Thank you. Um, y- you mentioned your Substack. If you wanna give a sh- Yeah tell people how people can find your Substack or any other ways that you like to keep in touch with readers. Yeah, it's just, uh, it's, it's called Books and Politics, uh, Rep Steve Israel. You can also go to my website, uh, repsteveisrael.com. And, um, I'm doing lots of, lots of tours. I've gotta get up to your area at a p- certain point. I've been invited to do something in Boston. Uh, we just haven't been work- able to work it out on the schedule. I'm, I've just been invited to, um, do something on the book at the National Book Festival in Washington- Oh, amazing DC in August, which- Congratulations the greatest honor that, that I could have, so I'll be in DC then, and I'm in The Hamptons- Excellent in the Eastern Long Island in a few weeks, and You know, I, we, we talked about how grueling a tour can be. Other than the people who pick it up like a piece of frun- uh Right of fringe benefit, I love it. I love the, you know, the interaction and talking to people about their literary interests. And it gives me hope for the country, that there are still- Doesn't it? people interested in holding a book, not reading it on a device- Yes but holding a book. Yes, I completely agree. I, like I said, I was at the Santa Barbara Literary Festival this weekend with a bunch of friend, writer friends- Mm-hmm and, and we were all saying, "You know, I feel like we're might be sh- like h- there might be a trend towards like printed books, analog experiences again." Yeah. I feel like I'm, that's my hope. That's my hope for indie bookstores. It's my hope for authors. Yeah. You know, it feels like we're seeing a little bit of a turn that way, I think you're right, and we see it in our own store. Uh, you know, people come- Good and and they just wanna feel a book. I think there's a sensory overload occurring- Mm-hmm in people, and they just- Yes wanna feel it. They want their fingers to run across a page, and particularly history or historic fiction. I think particularly with America 250 as we s- as we commemorate our founding- Yes people may be more attuned to history. That doesn't mean they wanna read a biography of George Washington. They, you know, as, it, what's, w- what makes it accessible is the kind of writing that you do, that kind of historic fiction- Thank you that brings people into a story but educates them at the same time. Yeah. A- and you as well. Thank, yeah, thank you. That, yeah, it's, uh, it's encouraging. It's nice to see. Mm-hmm. It's nice to hear. I've, 'cause I've been hearing good, some good things like, like what you just said, so- Mm-hmm fingers crossed for, for all of us, you know? We both... Yeah. So that's a wrap, Steve. This was lovely. It was so great- Thank you to finally meet you. Thank you for being a guest on Happy Hour. Again, the novel is The Einstein Conspiracy. It's available now wherever books are sold. My latest novel is The Women of Arlington Hall. Please remember to subscribe to my YouTube channel or follow me wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you again. Congratulations, Steve, and I wish you so much luck with The Einstein Conspiracy. Thank you so much, Jane.