Summer of Love by Kerri Maher

In this episode of The Jane Healey Happy Hour, bestselling author Jane Healey sits down with bestselling author Kerri Maher to discuss Summer of Love, a family secrets novel that moves between 1967 San Francisco and 2015 Napa Valley. Kerri shares how Julia Cameron's The Artist's Way unexpectedly unlocked the idea for the novel, along with the personal connection she has to California and the extensive research behind the state's wine-making history. They also explore dual timelines, addiction and recovery, the writing process, and why perseverance is one of the most important qualities for any author.

Transcript

Jane 0:05

Welcome to The Jane Healey Happy Hour, the podcast that explores new and exciting novels of all genres. I'm your host, bestselling historical fiction author Jane Healey, and in today's episode, we welcome my friend, bestselling author Kerry Marr, to discuss her latest novel, Summer of Love, which has been called, "A captivating blend of mystery, history, family saga, and explosive secrets that can't stay hidden forever. An irresistible read." Welcome, Kerry.

Kerri 0:32

Thank you so much for having me, Jane. I'm really excited to be here. I'm holding up my book for your YouTube viewers.

Jane 0:37

Yes. It's a beautiful cover. Yes. Um-

Kerri 0:40

Happy

Jane 0:40

with it I'm gonna do a quick bio about you, and then we'll jump in.

Kerri 0:43

Okay.

Jane 0:44

Kerry Marr is a USA Today, American Bestsellers Association, and international bestselling author known for her richly researched historical fiction. Her novels include The Kennedy Debutante, The Girl in White Gloves, The Paris Bookseller, and All You Have to Do Is Call, among others. She holds an MFA from Columbia University, has taught writing for about eight years at institutions including Columbia and Fairleigh Dickinson University, and she lives in a suburb west of Boston with her daughter and her dog. Again, welcome.

Kerri 1:13

Hi. Thank you again. My dog, who is lying here and may make an, like, an appearance auditorily. We'll see.

Jane 1:20

Always love the pets, yeah. Yeah. Um, let's talk Summer of Love weaves together 1967 San Francisco and a 2015 storyline anchored in a Napa Valley winery, and it also includes a mysterious anonymous novelist. How do you describe this book in your own words when readers ask what's it about?

Kerri 1:40

Basically what you just said.

Jane 1:42

Okay, good.

Kerri 1:44

You said it much better than I do. I think the only thing I'd add is that I think my one-liner is, it's a family secrets novel. Mm-hmm. You know, it's about And it's a family secrets novel, so it's sort of, you know, a messy family that owns this winery in Napa. Um, we get the sort of There's the two sisters who grow up on the, the winery in mid-century, and Miranda, who is a y- in her 20s w- when she's, in 1967, when she's really trying to run the winery and make California wine that rivals French wine. Which is, like, a true piece of California history. You know, California wine making has a long history. Um, but because of prohibition, um I'm now, like, not answering your question anymore. Should we just, like, go all the way into

Jane 2:33

No, dive in. Keep, you keep going. Okay. All right. This is good. This is good.

Kerri 2:36

Okay. So because of prohibition California wine making almost, like, gets divided into, like, two halves, because during the, the years of, the decade of prohibition, a lot of the vines that had been producing wine for s- uh, more than a century, got pulled up and, like, other usually orchards and things were planted in their place. And so, but after when prohibition ended, a lot of people went back to plant They ripped up the, the orchards and planted vines again. And so that is really the beginning of what we think of as the California wine of, that we think of today. You know, the sort of, the good life we might say of California and, you know, Napa and Sonoma and all that good stuff.

Jane 3:19

Okay, and I have more questions about the research regarding that too, um, 'cause I was reading your author, author's notes this morning. So, but in terms of the book, Summer A- the Summer of Love novel, like what was the original spark? I love to hear from authors about like how, uh, why this idea now? Like, why'd you w- what how'd you come up with it?

Kerri 3:37

Yeah. This answer, I love this question because the answer to th- for this book is very different from my previous books. So my previous four historical novels, I really got the idea from somewhere else, right? The Kennedy Debutante and All You Have to Do Is Call were the result of me watching a television show or listening to a radio, a radio show. The Paris Bookseller about the original Shakespeare and Company bookstore in Paris I thought of that because long ago I had read Sylvia Beach's memoir. And The Girl in White Gloves about Grace Kelly was because I grew up in a house w- where Hitchcock movies were on all the time, and so I was just very aware of her. So like these were ideas that kind of they were s- specific people and ideas that came to me from somewhere else. This one, Summer of Love, really came from inside me. I was kind of struggling with what to write next after All You Have to Do Is Call, and I had the, like these ideas kind of swirling around in my imagination. I wanted to write a book set in California because that was where I was born and raised although I've now lived most of my adult life on the East Coast. But I wanted to write a California novel. I wanted there to be a road trip component. And I also knew because I was, I had quit drinking recently myself, I wanted there to be a kind of addiction and recovery storyline. So I had all these things swirling around but I had no idea what the novel was, like how all, they all came together. And a really good friend of mine suggested that I do The Artist's Way. Have you ever done The Artist's Way, Jane?

Jane 5:11

Yeah, yeah, years ago. I- But yeah.

Kerri 5:13

Yeah. So for listeners who don't know what it is, it's a, um, 12-week course in a book by a woman named Julia Cameron, and it's really It's kind of amazing. And I had been avoiding this book for years because I knew that the foundation of the magic, as they say, are these things called morning pages, which is essentially a first thing in the morning journaling practice, and I have always hated journaling.

Jane 5:37

Me too. So

Kerri 5:38

I know. Do you h- uh, are do you have this problem, like as the minute you tell people you're a writer people give you a beautiful journal for a birthday or Christmas? Yeah. Thanks. And I've tried. Mm-hmm. I've you know, those journals piled up in my closet full of like two pages of handwritten material before I just was like, "This is not for me." Anyway, long story short, I committed to doing the morning pages when I did The Artist's Way. And I kid you not, Jane, within- I don't know, four to six weeks, the whole idea for Summer of Love came together in like-

Jane 6:11

Really? Yeah. That's amazing. That...

Kerri 6:13

Yes. So I d- I don't do them, and this was three years ago. I don't do the morning pages every single day anymore, but I, I try and dip in whenever I can, and when I'm struggling, I go back to doing them pretty much every day. And they have continued to be very helpful for me.

Jane 6:30

That's interesting. Yeah, I ha- I'm not a big fan of journaling either, and but to, to hear that, you know, I think that writing is like, like I, I w- I'm in, I'm deep in a n- new novel right now drafting, and I, I ha- I've taken a few months off, and I feel like it, it's like exercise. I felt kinda flabby. Like I just feel like I got out of practice, and I-

Kerri 6:50

Yeah

Jane 6:50

I think s- journaling must help that, you know, in terms of keeping you in it. Yeah.

Kerri 6:55

Yeah. Yeah, well, uh, most people who do morning pages, we talk about the fact that most morning pages are just a lot of complaining about our lives. A lot of whinging, as the Brits say. But that's sort of the point, right? Like Julia Cameron sort of talks about it as a sort of taking out the trash process so that like the good stuff can kind of rise to the surface, and I really, I really have found that to be true. Sometimes I use the morning pages to brainstorm or work out ideas, but I would say two-thirds to three-quarters of them are just like emptying out my brain.

Jane 7:31

So interesting. Yeah, I haven't looked at The Artist's Way. I have the, I have a copy upstairs somewhere and, and forever, but now I'm like, I might need to get that, delve back into that. It's been a while.

Kerri 7:40

It's, it's I love it,

Jane 7:41

yeah. I w- so to go back to your research what your first line of your author's note is, "California wine country deserves many more novels," and this one brings us to San Francisco and Napa in '67, then back t- in to California wine country in 2015. What was your research process like for capturing those specific eras, landscapes, everything?

Kerri 8:07

Yeah, so there's a significant lived experience component to this because I was born and raised in California by California native parents and extended families. And my parents met at UC Berkeley in the mid-1960s. Oh, wow. So I grew up hearing stories about this time and place, not only from my parents but also, aunts and uncles and, um, grandparents and, and all, all the people who could possibly tell me stories about that time and place. So, and then I went to UC Berkeley in the '90s, which was really not that long after the '60s, and the '60s were very much alive and well in Berkeley in the '90s. You know, peace signs and resistance posters and all that good stuff. So I, to some extent, I lived the, um, the era of the book. And so when it came time to research the historical period, I did a little bit of reading, but mostly what I had t- to do was fact check. You know? Mm-hmm. I would write something- Pretty sure that I had gotten it right based on things that I had heard or read in the past, and I would just ma- I just had people read it to make sure that I wasn't totally off the mark. Where I really had to do the most research was on wine-making and wine country. I had a very rudimentary understanding of how wine-making worked, and I'm not a super science-y person, so another writer might have really del- like Jamie Brenner wrote a novel that's set in the Long Island wine country, and her novel is full, chock-a-block of such interesting scientific information about the making of wine. I just, that's not who I am. That's not how my brain works. And so I went more in the historical direction of California wine country. And so I've already talked a little bit about how prohibition- Mm-hmm there's this kind of pre-Prohibition and post-Prohibition era of California wine-making. But the reason I started my author's note that way is because, like the truth is, despite that 10-year gap, it's, there are like hundreds of years of California wine-making, and it started with the Spanish conquerors and the missionaries. And that's not g- great history to learn, you know, they enslaved the native population and, uh, all these things that we understand better now. And and later kind of more Western, Northern European vineyard owners used Chinese laborers who came in the 19th century through the early 20th century. So it's a complicated history, like really complicated. Um-

Jane 10:46

Yeah

Kerri 10:47

in the post-Prohibition period we have, you know, migrant laborers, people, undocumented laborers. It's complicated.

Jane 10:55

Yeah. Absolutely. Um, so I want to talk about the book, the, about the main characters in the story. So it follows three generations of Hartley women, Winnie, Miranda, and Dawn. Did you always know it would be a generational story like this? And did one come first before the others?

Kerri 11:15

Yes, I always knew it was gonna be a generational story because I definitely wanted, I mean, I'm a historical writer. I mean, maybe someday I'll write truly contemporary fiction, but for now I'm, I'm doing historical. So I knew it was gonna be rooted in the '60s. But I did want, I wanted to be able to talk about addiction and recovery in a modern way, so I knew that there needed to be some kind of dual timeline component. So that's sort of... And then, like I said, it was really, ah, I can't tell you what came first exactly. Like, it all just once I started doing those morning pages and I, I- it was like all three characters presented themselves at the same time.

Jane 11:56

Amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. Can you hear me okay? I had, I, I had a tech issue with my headphones, so I just-

Kerri 12:02

Yeah

Jane 12:02

I'm putting them to the side. Okay, good. So I wanna read this quote also from your author's notes and have you speak to it, 'cause I think it's an important part of the story. Part of the h- story of the Hartley family lies in the exploration of alcoholism and addiction within families. And this is from your notes, "I've wanted to write a California novel for years to conf- combine my unfettered love of the state's unparalleled beauty and delicious produce, its pioneering spirit in the realms of food, drink, music, and the good life with a clear-eyed look at some of the roots and fruits of that free-spiritedness, for both things are true, the beauty and the harm." So talk about that. I really love that sentiment and the way that you, I mean, a- and it certainly came through in the book.

Kerri 12:45

Okay. Well, thank- I'm glad that it came through in the book. And so, so what, you know, I think I just talked a little bit about kind of the h- the historical harm, right- Yeah of the wine country, right? But there's also, there's also the harm that comes from the abuse of the substance, right? I think anyone who's ever been on a wine tour- wherever you've been on it, whether it's been France or Long Island or California, you know that there are some people who are on that wine tour just to get hammered. Right.

Jane 13:13

Yeah. Right. It,

Kerri 13:14

It isn't about tasting the wine and understanding the de- you know, the complexities and the science and the art of the wine. Mi- Miranda, the character in the novel who is making the wine, kind of represents the purest form of wine-making. Like, she hardly drinks at all, right? Mm-hmm. She really is only interested in the wine as, she's not interested in the wine as a means to, to feel d- a different way, like her sister Winnie is. But she's really interested in the craft of wine-making. Which I kind of got. I'm a writer. Like, I'm all about craft, and like, and fine-tuning craft, and learning about craft, and, and all of that good stuff. And so I was, able to give that desire to Miranda for something that I no longer drink, right? But it was still interesting to me to explore that aspect of her personality. But meanwhile, her sister is harming herself with the wine, um, and her daughter Donna is also. Mm-hmm. So, so that's the sort of harm piece. Um, the historical and the more con- you know, the, the pre- and post-harm piece. But the, the- the beauty is kind of everywhere you look. You know, California, depending on who you're talking to, California can kind of get a bad rap for high taxes and gas prices and earthquakes and all of that stuff. And, uh, I'm not gonna sit here and say that that stuff's not true, and It's not a but, it's an and. And when you are standing on the coast, after you've had your sweaty drive on Route 1 and you finally have pulled over onto a jug handle, a vista point, and you're looking out, and you can To your right and your left all you can see is, stunning coastline and the ocean as far as you can see. It's hard to beat that.

Jane 15:05

No, I It's so funny you say that. I went to the Santa Barbara Literary Festival, and I hadn't been to Ca- to California in years. I'd never been to Santa Barbara, and I stepped out of the airport and I was like, "My God." Yeah. It is, it's gorgeous. So gorgeous. And I And since then I'm like, to my husband I'm like, "We need to go back to California. Like, we're missing out. It's been a while."

Kerri 15:25

But yeah, you know, California And I think one of the other things that people You know, we're, we're sort of talking about the coast but, inland there are in a couple of different places there are redwood forests. There are, further inland there's Yosemite and, like, these amazing rock formations and, and then there's the Sierra Nevada Mountains, which are truly awe-inspiring. Like, it's I think somewhere in the author's note I say, talk about sort of staggering and varied natural beauty because, like, you can drive two hours in any direction and be in a totally different place. Amazing. Sometimes with a different climate as well as just, as different geographical beauty.

Jane 16:04

Yeah, absolutely. I love how people are coming here for the World Cup and discovering all the beauty, all our states, including California. Yeah, it's so cool. Yeah.

Kerri 16:13

And, and Massachusetts, where we both live.

Jane 16:15

Yes. Yes, absolutely. I want to ask, so you've written biographical fiction about Grace Kelly and Sylvia Beach, and this, this is different for you. So, I mean, this is three fictional women in a historical s- in historical moments. And so was that freeing or was it more challenging?

Kerri 16:35

It both. Yeah. I feel like my favorite word has become "and". So I, I did, I practiced this a little bit in my, my previous novel, All You Have to Do Is Call, which was again a, a totally fictional cast of characters. But it was more tethered, it was loosely based on a group of real women. And so I had more historical scaffolding for that book than for this one, as you correctly point out. So yeah, I mean- There were times writing this book where I felt like I was kind of dangling from a window, like hanging on by my fingernails going- "What? Where, what am I d- like what do I do from here?" But, you know, that was part of the challenge. I mean, you hear writers talk all the time about if you're not challenging yourself, every book or every other book or periodically at least, what are you really doing?

Jane 17:30

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kerri 17:30

And so, uh, it was a challenge. And I... it took a bunch of drafts, I'm not gonna lie. It was a lot of drafts. Um, but I'm okay with that.

Jane 17:39

Yeah. In term- uh, also I, I'm always like in awe of writers who, like, do the dual timeline thing, and you do that really well. Like, was that challenging, like braiding those two together? And did you write one timeline and then the other? Like how did you do that?

Kerri 17:54

My intention was to write it going back and forth, but that is not what happened. I started that way, and then the historical timeline took on a momentum that I didn't wanna interrupt.

Jane 18:10

Mm-hmm.

Kerri 18:11

So I just wrote that first.

Jane 18:12

Okay.

Kerri 18:13

And then I wrote the 2015 Dawn sections, and then I figured out how to... I braided them together.

Jane 18:19

Okay.

Kerri 18:20

And, I don't know, there was some piece of my subconscious that was aware of how, what the touchpoints might be. Mm-hmm. So I don't remember braiding them together being that hard.

Jane 18:33

Well that's good.

Kerri 18:34

I think, I did, I did in later drafts wind up having to move a few things around, but it was good. I And, you know, the book reveals, writing the book reveals what the book's about, and also how it needs to be written, right?

Jane 18:51

Mm-hmm.

Kerri 18:52

So it surprised me. Um-

Jane 18:54

Yeah

Kerri 18:55

yeah, which was fun actually in some ways. Also, you know what else surprised me? I had did not intend to write any of this in the first person. I'm a devoted close third writer. But suddenly I was writing in the first person, not even on purpose, and I was like, "Oh, this is in first person." I was so insecure about it. I sent a few people-

Jane 19:16

Really?

Kerri 19:17

Yes, to a few beta readers, and I was like, like when I had 10 pages of it, and I was like, "Does this even work in first person?" Everyone said, "Yes, keep going," so I was like, "Okay." Oh,

Jane 19:29

amazing. Even though it

Kerri 19:30

made me feel really uncomfortable. It, but like I literally couldn't change it to third.

Jane 19:36

It just Yeah, I understand that. I understand that feeling. Um, so this go- I, I have a bunch of writing questions that I ask everyone who comes on. So in terms of your process, like, and has it changed over time? Like, you've written a number of novels now. Are you an outliner, or do you, are you, do you write by the seat of your pants, plotter versus pantser? Like, how do What's your process like?

Kerri 19:58

So although I'm a devoted planner in life, I'm a pantser when it comes to writing, which is-

Jane 20:04

Really? Oh, I That's really interesting. Okay.

Kerri 20:07

Funny, it's a funny paradox. I love my lists. When it comes to, like, lesson planning or, or getting ready for a presentation or something, I'm a, I'm an outliner. I like to, sometimes I write the whole thing out in note for- like, bullet point form. But I don't like, I don't do that when it comes to my novels. And, um, I like having the freedom. I think honestly even if I did it, I would just go off script. It, I wouldn't stick to it, so there's just no point really. I have some sense of where it's gonna land. There, there's some psychological study to be done there. Like, it's like I You know, it's like the one place in my life where I feel like I can be truly free is in my imagination or something. So that's, that's my process. And, but my other part of my process is that I do it in the morning, 'cause if it doesn't happen in the morning, it will never happen. Mm-hmm. As much as I love it, I love writing, and it is my, it is my calling and my passion, but if I don't do it in the morning, I won't do it.

Jane 21:04

I get that too. How has being a writer, writing instructor influenced your writing?

Kerri 21:10

Uh, there it's evolved. In the beginning, there was this amazing synergy between my teaching and my writing, and I felt like when I was writing, I kind of had this third eye on myself where I was like, "Oh, Carrie, you're doing this, and maybe your students would find that helpful." And then when I was teaching, I would realize certain things about their process that I would be like, "Oh, maybe that was some- is something I could try." So, you know, there was all kinds of, there was all kinds of back and forth there in the early years. Plus, I love being part of a faculty of other writers. Oh, yeah. Um, you and I are part of a, a local community of writers, which I think both of us find, want to be wonderful and supportive and in all the ways. And I found that in my early days of teaching, too. Um, I took a hiatus from teaching when my daughter was young. I went back to it a few years ago at Emerson, and I was kind of an adjunct. And I still loved it for a lot of those reasons, but for other more practical reasons, it wasn't really working for me, and now I'm, like, in men- the world of mental health. I've pivoted. I've done the midlife pivot.

Jane 22:13

Ma- and, a- and you're doing it well. It's impressive. Well- Um, oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. I didn't wanna cut you off.

Kerri 22:20

Oh, no, I was just gonna say, I, it, I also, I enjoy it. Yeah. And I think that whatever other thing a writer does in their life ultimately feeds the writing, right? Mm-hmm. Because if you're doing something 'Cause you don't write all day every day. And, you know, so your life is what ultimately informs what it is you're writing. It's where you stumble across new subjects. It's where you solve problems. It's all of that stuff. And so the more interesting your non-writing life is, I think, the more interesting your writing becomes.

Jane 22:53

Totally agree. In terms of the process, what is the most, what's, what part of the writing process do you enjoy the most, and what do you find the most challenging?

Kerri 23:06

I think my favorite part is when I finally get to, like, 70,000 words and that final 20,000 words, the end is in sight.

Jane 23:13

Mm-hmm.

Kerri 23:14

There's a real Usually, historically with my writing, there's a, that's when I really hit the momentum. Like, I'm really like, "Okay." And that's when I'm ab- That's It's funny, that's when I'm sometimes able to write in the afternoon or the evening, because I'm, my brain is, like, so in it all the time. It's like I can't shake it. My So starting is hard. Getting to 50,000 words is hard, 'cause sometimes I'm, like, really feel like I'm groping around in the dark, 'cause again, I'm a pantser. And then there are parts of revision that I find hard too. You know, when I get, when I get feedback that resonates, but I have absolutely no idea how to address it, that feels terrible. Yeah. You know, I see you nodding, you know, like sympathetically. And- Oh, yeah even if I don't figure it out ultimately, but that time before, between getting the feedback, knowing that I have to do something, and really not knowing what to do and wondering to myself, "Is this the time that I can't, that I'm not gonna be able to figure it out?" Yeah. Is really, is a terrible It's, I don't like it.

Jane 24:20

That despair. I know. When I get I always talk about I get the editorial notes, and I, like, run screaming from the room, and I have to, like, let them sit for 24 hours before I'm like- Yeah "Okay, I can do this again," yeah. Yeah,

Kerri 24:33

yeah. And you know, that happens to me at different points in the process. It ca- it could happen to me with my editor's letter. It could happen to me at the beta reads, point. It, you know, with your editor, you actually have to address what they're saying.

Jane 24:44

That's right. That's right. Um, so we have a lot of writers that listen to this podcast. What's the best advice you can give them, this is a two-part question, about writing and about getting published?

Kerri 24:58

I think that it's the same, which is just keep swimming

Jane 25:03

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Kerri 25:04

So just keep swimming. You know, we are- I say this whenever I'm given the opportunity. I w- wrote, fully wrote, revised, and tried to sell five novels before my first novel sold, before The Kennedy Debutante sold. Summer of Love looks like my fifth novel, but it's actually my 10th, okay? And there were lots of times when I wanted to, like, give up, but I didn't. I just kept swimming.

Jane 25:28

Mm-hmm.

Kerri 25:29

And, you know, we are, you and I are living through a time, we've lived through a golden age of historical fiction, and now we're living through a less than golden age of historical fiction in terms of the marketplace, right?

Jane 25:39

Yes.

Kerri 25:40

There's still amazing historical fiction being written. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about what's being purchased. So it's tough right now out there in the world. Yeah. And I'm just gonna keep swimming, as hard as it sometimes feels.

Jane 25:54

Yes. Yeah, and you're absolutely right about all of that, including the market, like you said. I... And, and that's, there's trends. Trends come and go in terms of what's popular and, and yeah, you just gotta keep doing your thing and hope that you're building a base of readers along the way, and all of those things, Um, are you ready to share what you're working on next?

Kerri 26:13

Uh, very, very briefly, because I am it's, this one's, this next one has been a journey, let's just say. Someday when I'm able to talk about this more, I'll have lots to say. Um, but it's about a magical book of hours, which is like a medieval prayer book, for those- Oh who don't know what it is. A magical book of hours and an epic love story, and that is all I have to say at this point.

Jane 26:36

Totally intriguing. And how it, how best can, um, how can readers best keep in touch with you?

Kerri 26:43

I am very active on Instagram and on Substack. On Instagram, my handle is kerimaherewriter and on Substack, my author, um, Substack is called Sandcastles with Kerri Maher. Now, if you don't wanna, quote, unquote, "get on Substack," um, if you just wanna be a subscriber, y- you can do that. It's just like any other newsletter, and on my website, kerimaher.com, there's a contact page and there's, like, a, an easy s- you know, sign up for my newsletter button. So that's it.

Jane 27:13

Excellent. And this I will... This book comes out July 7th, correct? Yes. Yes. Yeah, so okay. So I'm not sure when we'll re- we'll release the podcast around that time, but I just wanna make sure everyone knows it's available July 7th wherever books are sold. Yes. Um, and that's a wrap. Kerri, this was lovely. It's always lovely to talk to you. We ha- we have to get coffee soon.

Kerri 27:33

Yes, 100%. Thank you for having me. It was great chatting with you t- there were great questions.

Jane 27:37

Thank you. Thank you. Um, and that's a wrap. Congratulations again on your latest, Summer of Love, available wherever books are sold. My latest novel is The Women of Arlington Hall. Please remember to subscribe to my YouTube channel or follow me wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks again, Kerry. I, I didn't even mention, I was a very, very early reader of this book, and I'm so excited to see it coming out into the world now.