Trailblazing Innovation and Leadership: Pine Hill's Journey in the Shed Trailer Industry

Embark on a transformative exploration of Pine Hill Trailers as Ken Urban and Rueben Miller unravel the tapestry of innovation and growth that has made their company a beacon in the shed trailer industry. Venturing from a small start-up to a powerhouse that's redefining standards, this episode gives you a front-row seat to the pioneering features and customer-centric philosophies driving Pine Hill's success. You'll uncover the compelling backstory that's seen ordinary garden sheds evolve into versatile structures like home offices and hunting cabins, mirroring the company’s own journey of adaptation and expansion.

With the portable building industry constantly pushing boundaries, Ken and Rueben narrate how they've stayed ahead, keeping their trailers as nimble as the market demands. Listen to the intricate tales of challenge and triumph as Pine Hill conquers obstacles from navigating rugged terrains to overcoming the unforeseen hurdles of a global pandemic. This episode is not just a testament to the company's resilience but also a guidebook for the shed hauling community, offering valuable insights into the complexities of the trade, from cutting-edge technologies to the art of customer service.

As we wrap up this robust conversation, we delve into the ethos that separates leaders from bosses in the tech industry, with our guests sharing their philosophy on leadership, process, safety, and service. The journey through Pine Hill's chapters becomes a broader reflection on the industry's commitment to excellence, continuous learning, and the power of community. Join us in a heartfelt prayer for the shed haulers and their noble pursuit, as we celebrate the spirit of innovation and human connection that binds this unique industry together.

Also, find out how the podcast can be heard throughout the plain communities by dialing the number 330-997-3055. If the number is busy, just dial again! 

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Transcript

Shed Geek: 0:36

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the shed geek podcast and much anticipated show today, definitely long overdue and so happy to finally get in front of you guys. We've got Pine Hill Trailers on today and I'll tell you what we'll. Just we'll start at the end. Let you guys introduce yourself. A lot of you guys, a lot of guys out there probably know who you guys are, but we'll do some formalities here, so go ahead and introduce yourself.

Ken Urban: 1:04

Yeah, Ken Urban, here I'm the chief operating officer of pine Hill trailers. I've only been here for about seven months now. Some learning and learning the shed industry and I'm in charge of the manufacturing as well as the service and parts department of pine Hill trailers. So, yeah, happy to be here.

Shed Geek: 1:25

Very good, thank you. And then we've got a. We got a celebrity here, right I think I'm not sure about. I've been bugging this guy to be on for so long. Thank you so much for coming on, ruben. You want to introduce yourself?

Rueben Miller: 1:40

Yep, so I've been here about 10 years. Rueben Miller is my name. I am the sales manager here, for I'm now sales manager for all of trailer sales, not only shed trailers, but shed trailers is still my specialty. Also get into other or hydraulic trailer sales. I'm kind of the Defender of that.

Shed Geek: 2:03

So, yeah, happy to help along here and Share a story appreciate you so much, ruben, for For being willing to sit down with me. See you in just about everywhere all of the shed hauling events, for sure, and a lot of the shed industry, trade, shells and things like that. It seems like we're always bumping to each other and You've, either intentionally or unintentionally, somehow become sort of the face of pine hill, for me at least, and maybe for more. But appreciate you sitting down with me, so let's kind of go through. Let's kind of go through. I don't know who wants to take this, but how did pine hill get started? I mean, we're we've been able to identify, I know, like by their barns, as one of the older shed manufacturers. Going back, they just celebrated their 50th Year in existence. When did pine hill come along and how did that kind of? How did it just come to be in general?

Rueben Miller: 3:02

So I'll take that so many of people know Dan Petersheim. Dan Petersheim was the face of sales and he's still the face of pine hill. He's still here, but you'll see him at every event. So it started at his house. His desire was to build dump trailers, and when you go into manufacturing, you're you have to buy everything up front. So he was quickly broke. And then he got into service Service. He got paid immediately for the service up front and could, you know, gotten at 30 on the parts, so it creates a little cash.

Rueben Miller: 3:39

Yeah type thing for, and then shed haulers started getting them to do his service work. And In 2001 ish, I think too I don't know if he built much stuff in 2000, but I know in 2001 he started building shed trailers. That was there was a guy in Virginia that was a little instrumental on that. I believe I know if there was a guy in Virginia that ordered 10 trailers. That really got him started.

Rueben Miller: 4:05

So then yeah, after he was only at his house for a year and a half, and then he rented a place for 10 years, from 01 to 11, and then 11 we moved out on 30 and Then and 15 were in New Holland then 23 we moved down here.

Rueben Miller: 4:22

So, yeah, how did we arrive? I mean that that's how the building process started there at his house. I mean, the first trailers were the part side of things, came on board from a, from a guy that used to build trailers His name was Davey Fisher trailer. So, like the violer Barnes of the world they might recognize, that name many people won't. I don't think because that was yeah, davey Fisher trailers.

Rueben Miller: 4:45

So yeah, then the parts came on board. It fit well. But then the like the first trailers wouldn't even had remote controls like they were. I mean, it was a tilt With a with a chain drive. Then the side shift came on board and the tongue tongue extension came on board. You know when the first tail tail extension came out like well, that'll never work. Okay, well, now you know they're everywhere, you don't do without a tail extension. So it evolved. You know how we arrived to the shed trailer. Today is a lot of it. It has to do with Trying to meet the need. It's not like 20 years ago we had a strategic growth plan to arrive at this destination by 2024. It so it happened quite organically, even like this building wasn't in the picture five years ago. Very organic growth Grow with the industry. We've probably stretched ourselves out more than any other trailer manufacturer did in the in this industry Just because we believe in it.

Rueben Miller: 5:56

We're here for the long haul and then we grow into other industries. You know like the metal roofing industry is big, Much bigger than it was 20 30 years even 10 years ago. So we're catering to that and you know we're always looking for, for new industries new ventures. But yeah, that's kind of the shed, the short version of the shed trailer story. Can you have something to add to that?

Ken Urban: 6:23

No other than just the. You know, the story is one of Innovation, meeting the needs of the customer, customizing the trailers, I mean as, as we've gone on over the years. I mean you talk about tail extension, you talk about tongue extension, center extensions, bigger, bigger trailers, air ride, remote control. All those things are brought about by by the customer needs. So we try to be as as mobile as we can to to meet the customer need and and and innovate. Innovate not just to innovate, but innovate for, for the needs of the customer.

Shed Geek: 7:01

It's been said before, necessities mother of invention and we've talked a whole lot On our tour here today when we'll get some pictures end of your Sort of your service Facility, more of like the sales side, but then also the manufacturing here where we're at in the new building. But you know, necessity being the mother of invention and customization being sort of your recipe for how you guys operate, do you find that that's Not just sort of your stamp over the past of maybe identifying a, a service of and and and the product of a pinehill trailer? But even in the future Do you feel like customization is gonna Just be necessary and shed hauling?

Ken Urban: 7:50

Yeah, I mean on a shed trailer. I mean maybe there's 70% Standard, 70% of me, 30% custom, some are maybe even higher than that, depending on, depending on the need of the customer. We do have some standard shed trailers that we manufacture as well. That would be stock, stock units that are on our, on our lot in our Gordonville location and then a lot, but majority, are direct customer Interactions where Ruben sell on a custom trailer to a specific Person or a specific company and you know, just anyway, and it were all the way from anywhere from the length of the trailer to double frame, single frame, all the way to storage Score, storage baskets underneath the trailer and where the location of those are. It's all, it's all part of that customization process.

Shed Geek: 8:41

Let's say, a new person to the industry finds their way to the podcast which we've had happen from time to time and they're trying to educate theirself on the more basic functions, not like a professional shed hauler who's been doing this, maybe even for five, ten, twenty years. Sort of explain the differences in a single frame, double frame and a little bit about the components of the Product you offer.

Rueben Miller: 9:07

Yep, so it all started with double frames. The double frame is has is a shorter version, so your double frames in at 28 feet and then your single frames start at 28 feet. The double frame I mean the basic concept is on a double frame is your, for your four tires stay on the ground Whether you're tilted or not tilted. Your side of wheels are always available on a single frame. Your front tires Come off the ground when you're tilting and then you lose your side of wheels function when you're fully tilted on a single frame. But again, like on your air ride stuff, there is no double frame option because all your air ride stuff is longer. So your single frame Came along. As the industry grew, then, that's, the need for the single frame became prevalent.

Shed Geek: 9:52

Can you tell us more about the importance of shed delivery and how the industry has grown over the years? I think you've kind of answered a lot of that. What would be your, your formal answer to how it's changed over the years? How important is the shed industry, the shed hauling Section of the industry, and how have you seen it change?

Rueben Miller: 10:13

So that changed a hundred percent for the building. So back in the days of by the barns, there was a ton of 8 by 12s. You know a few, you know a few 10 by 16s type stuff. So and now it's 14 by 40s, is 16 by 50s, it's 18 by 70s, it's just so. Yeah, the trailers, that, the portable building industry, I mean. The other thing that changed so much, it was it used to be 8 by 12 garden sheds. Well, now it's. It's gazebos, it's Pergolos, it's man caves that she said, it's chicken crooks, its dog kennels, its home offices, it's hunting cabins, it's it's summer, summer, it's beach houses, it's pool houses. It has grown. It has grown way, way, way beyond the 8 by 12 shed and the thought behind Portable building industry looks so much different than it did even 15 years ago.

Ken Urban: 11:17

Yeah, and, and add to that are a lot of our recent innovation is in our kids, in our cabin trailers, just our larger air ride trailers. You know, just like the one you saw leave, that that Mervin Vargas bought a UST and you know that's that. That show is pushing the boundaries of what a shed trailer can be and it's to Get to maximize. You know you can haul a whole. You know six, seven small sheds on there or you can haul one 6070 foot Building with that trailer. So it just gives more versatility to the customer and we see the sheds getting bigger and bigger.

Shed Geek: 11:54

Yeah, I imagine my surprise when I rest of my friend and Mervin Vargas whenever I show up to Pine Hill for an interview. When you know it, there's customer service happening right there on the spot. We come around the corner and I see the. I see the red and gray truck and I'm like I know that truck, that's a UST truck. I've seen it at enough shed hauling events. I know that and wouldn't you know it? Mervin's here picking up this trailer. So tell me about the functionality of like this.

Shed Geek: 12:21

Units are getting bigger. Uh, customer demands maybe want that, maybe that's livable space, maybe they're trying to go off grid. Whatever it is, they're trying to use these bigger units. You've got to be able to get in there and get those things, because a lot of sales in the industry kind of relies on like rental, and rental means you need to be able to go pick it back up as well. In theory, you kind of want to see that go out and close to completion on that contract. If you have to go pick it back up, you've got to have the functionality in the equipment to be able to do that. And if you're going to make a big 18 by 70 and it's rented for six months and you got to bring it back. You're going to need the tools to be able to do that, and that's sort of what this new trailer encompasses. What sets this one apart that I saw with Mervyn's today and the cabin trailer compared to maybe some of your more traditional units.

Rueben Miller: 13:24

So the traditional cabin trailers would have a weight rating of 45,000. Mervyn's has a weight rating of 80,000. Like it's just so much bigger. I can speak into that a little bit. So sometimes people say, well, why have a portable building that big? Okay. So if you put it on a trailer frame that stays with the frame, now you fall under a whole different set of codes like the RV code or the modular code. It's way, way different than it is to have a portable building. I think that drives the need for that big building. The other thing that drives needs for that big building is the need for housing has grown so astronomical in the last couple of years, and in some of the western states you can't build houses for four months out of the year. Well, these houses can continue to get built all winter long and then, once spring hits or summer hits, you just simply go deliver these things so you can keep the building process going continually rather than being seasonal, and this trailer makes that 100% possible.

Shed Geek: 15:45

I wonder. Do you guys think I know that you're in the trailer manufacturing space, but do you think that we'll see, like loosened regulations over time where they'll allow that more because of the need for more housing I have no idea.

Ken Urban: 16:02

So some states are loosening some of those regulations already, but the state of Pennsylvania is extremely strict on the regulations. All these things Some other states are loosening, but it'll be a long road, lots of red tape for some of these building manufacturers, yeah.

Shed Geek: 16:21

Yeah, no, it's good Love seeing Mervyn up here. That was. It was just really cool to kind of see him and his truck in the you know picking that up. He said, yeah, I just drove in about an hour ago from Texas or getting this thing headed back. That guy's just doing it right. Ust does a really good job and we've had the pleasure to interview him before and appreciate them and love to watch their journey as they continue to grow. How does your shed company, uh, how does your company not shed company? How does your company specifically cater to the needs of shed delivery business? I know we kind of talked about customization and I'm like if I were to count, I'd say that word's been used about 60 times today. So there's obviously a heavy focus on customization. But how would you guys, uh, see yourself as servicing the industry and and what kind of sets you apart and what you guys do?

Rueben Miller: 17:13

So one of the big ones is service after the sale. Um, we don't just ship the trailer out and here take care of it. Um, you know, these trailers have a lot of moving parts, so when they, when things go wrong and you're down in the trenches, stumps, rocks, all that happy stuff I mean side wheels get busted up. So then we heard a service, yeah, service after the sale. Um, as far as specifically catering to the industry, I mean when you're, when you're delivering sheds, every single day is different. I mean, one day it's a tree, one day it's a stump, the next day it's a fence, the next day it's a neighbor, the next day it's. It's just, you know, the neighbor won't let you put his front tire on his side of the property Like, seriously, okay, well, we got sideway wheels, we have extensions, we have we have meals. So there's, there's, you know there's. There's a lot of different. That's how we cater. Yeah, we simply make what was very difficult task Um, now almost a hands-free, you know, with the remote and everything.

Shed Geek: 18:13

Yeah, the, the increase of like technology, and what I would always say is, like German engineering is always the best. Um, it's amazing what you see, some of the. I've had the pleasure of being at like the, the, the Cardinal shop, both in carrier meals but in Grayson, and even watching some of the automation. But just just, I don't know the, the way of problems thought through. Uh, we, we kind of discussed earlier what's the answer and, and almost sort of like the anti-baptist mentality, is work harder. If there's an issue, it's work harder, work harder, do more, fix it and and figure it out, and that that just really seems to resonate with other people in this industry.

Shed Geek: 18:56

Uh, they're hard workers and they, I think that they appreciate that Pine Hill has been a name that I've seen from from day one. You know, uh, I started in purchasing, purchasing product for for shed as a shed manufacturer and still knew the name Pine Hill because it it shows up whenever you do that, and the service after the sale, I think, is imperative. You guys have a whole dedicated team to what you guys do, though, Uh, I don't know if we can speak on that, if we're, but if we can, uh, we were doing a tour and you have like three people on the phone full time, constantly addressing whether it be concerns or service that's needed after the sale. Um, how important is that to you?

Ken Urban: 19:43

Yeah, that's a yeah, that's extremely important to us. I mean, we have um, yeah, like you said, we have three full time people on the on the phones on tech calls and um, and if you're find yourself on the phone with one of them could be anywhere in the nation. I mean they're they're probably on on their wifi, walking back into our parts, our parts, uh, warehouse, grabbing parts and shipping them out that day To to uh get the customers back on the road. Um, and that department has, as you know, is even better now that it has been. I mean, we've had some difficulties with it, just, and um, but it's in, it's a really good shape now and um, I think the the one to the um just, we can provide all the services in one place for for shed holders.

Ken Urban: 20:28

I think that's a big deal we have. We have, obviously, we have mule sales, like, like Ruben said, and we also have mules a whole mule service shop here where people are bringing their mules in for service, um, uh, so the one stop shopping for, uh, for shed holders and really really any haulers is is, um, yeah, it's a big deal for us. I mean, our store, our storefront, like, like we showed you through has anything that a hauler could possibly need to do their job and uh, so in that way we we want to make make a great customer experience when they come in, come in our door and call our calling for service and or bring their trailer here for service, and so that's a big deal for us.

Shed Geek: 21:09

It's hard to please everybody, but what kind of feedback have you guys received from like shed holders who have used your product? Do you have, like some specific customer testimonials, or do you have, um, what's been some of your best experiences in terms of feedback?

Rueben Miller: 21:27

So I mean there will be differences. I mean, for example, there's, there's many, there's been many times I go to a trade show and, um, meet someone, his trailer is five years old and he's like man, I picked up this trailer five years ago and I've never had to call you Like they're just, they're just floored by it. So that happens more times than we almost realized, because we hear, we hear all the problems. Yeah, we don't hear when they don't have problems. I mean, yeah, there's, there's on a few occasions where people will you know, leave.

Rueben Miller: 21:58

I mean we love Google reviews. Um, I'd love to have a thousand more. Um, so, google reviews are awesome. That's a good way to you know, but that that that happens organically, slash intentionally. But, um, yeah, good, good feedback is probably most times when you meet people down the rears, down the road. Uh-huh.

Rueben Miller: 22:18

Um, like last trade show was, we had a guy, met a guy that you had one of our first course all units and he's just completely blown away by the performance of it. And if I, if I would have had a little like two minute blip, I would, I would put that, I would use that all the time, but it happened organically and when it was done I'm like, shoot, I should have. I wish I could have recorded that. So it's a little event that you can't recreate, but yeah trade shows.

Rueben Miller: 22:47

You get a lot, a lot of good feedback, a lot of good feedback at trade shows.

Shed Geek: 22:50

We, we try to do the same here, recreating a natural conversation. Sometimes it works really good, sometimes it doesn't. That's why I always encourage people to go to these like shed holler events. If you're a shed holler, there's so much more value and being there Then there is even reading about it, hearing about it or tell, listen to somebody else tell the story. It's just there's so much more value in what happens, in the interpersonal relationships I've. I've said for years the best podcast that'll never happen are around those tables, like if you could throw a microphone in there and record that, that'd be gold. Uh, that's really what everyone wants to hear. So if you want to experience that firsthand, you got to go to these events, you got to go to these trade shows, you got to get in there and build community Yep.

Rueben Miller: 23:32

Meet the people shake their hands. Yeah, If there's tons of value there.

Shed Geek: 23:35

Makes all the difference in the world. Um, you mentioned, uh, what, the product that you mentioned? Um, quarter, corsal, corsal.

Rueben Miller: 23:44

Corsal solutions.

Shed Geek: 23:45

Corsal solutions. I'll elaborate on that just a little bit. That way we kind of know what the guy was so happy about.

Rueben Miller: 23:49

Yep, so many, many years, we use primer and paint on our trailers. We never did use powder coating, Still don't. Um. And in 20, we started doing testing with this course all and then in 21, we went live with it. Um, it's, it's similar, it functions similar to galvanizing, but it's not a hot debt process, it's a spray on process and um, yeah, it's. It's amazing that the feedback that we're getting is we're, we're getting, we're getting orders today because of that Um, because they know that their trader won't be all corroded in three years from now or 10 years from now. It's, they have a, they have a 10 to 20 year guarantee and it's, it's, yeah, the feedback that we have it is it will not corrode. It's, it's amazing. So this is good.

Shed Geek: 24:32

We'll have to grab a picture of one of the products or several of them out here that you're talking about and maybe kind of throw it on for those who are watching on YouTube. Uh, I don't think people really Maybe understand like just the size of just the shed hauling aspect alone inside of the shed industry. Uh, you guys have this dedicated service and and sales location. Then you have this large dedicated manufacturing process with CNC machines and plasma cutters and welders here and there. And, um, we kind of talked about the idea of automation and how customization is so much a part of your identity that it, it does it. It can only play up a role, a small role in sort of your automation side. But you guys feel pretty confident that the industries here established and going to continue to grow. I'm assuming, or you wouldn't put this much effort into it, would you agree?

Rueben Miller: 25:32

Oh yeah, the industry is here. I mean it's, it's proven itself um to grow in what it's, what it's grown today and um there again. When you go to the trade shows you you hear and see the new things that are, you know, up and coming. So, yeah, that the portable building or portable, yeah, portable, outdoor, portable stuff is is I would say it's here to stay. As long as there's real estate being bought and sold, then there's going to be buildings moved. Positive, 100% positive.

Shed Geek: 27:30

So let's talk about, let's talk a little bit about the growth points, maybe the, maybe, the, the pains and the promises and the all the, all the good that comes along with it as well too. Pine Hill started sometime around 98, I think we established, or something like that, early 2000s. But you're going into so many other areas with like you're you were talking about Rubin with like the metal side, then you've got the Jetland product, then you've got the cabin side of things. You guys just want to kind of elaborate on that and tell me a little bit more about the, the growth points.

Ken Urban: 28:11

Yeah, so a lot of people don't know I mean Pine Hill. We we have a trailer dealership that we we sell seven, seven or eight other manufacturers trailers that we actually are a dealer for. Okay, we have a general service department which is can service any trailers, as well as our shed service department and then our Jetland product line, which is our truck beds and flatbed service bodies. We that we manufacture here, we have here in in Gap at the manufacturer facility and then it's sold. We're starting to put together a dealer network for that product. So we have about there are about five dealers now on that and that I think that that's going to grow, that that's going to be probably, you know, all of our products we retail. So we retail as possible, shed trailers, material trailers. Everything we've done up to now, as Pine Hill has been, is retail. So we don't have any dealers. We don't, and that and that's purposeful, that that's so that we can. We don't lose touch with the customer. We're hearing directly from the customers who are using our products. With a product like Jotland, we feel like we can, we can create that dealer network on, you know, locally here in the Northeast and then and then spread throughout the South first and then and then farther out out West, and it's a product you can ship a lot easier than trailers, so geographically it's a little bit less restrictive.

Ken Urban: 29:36

And then some of our other growth points is I think Ruben mentioned the material trailer. So for the roofing industry, for the metal manufacturing, for, like metal building manufacturing industry, we feel like that's a huge growth point. It's a trailer, it's a, it's a roller trailer. That it's a, it's a wood deck trailer that the rollers come up and down hydraulically out of the deck. And and it's a, it's a two sided trailer so you can unload one side of the trailer and keep the other side strapped down. And this is that bringing, bringing product out the job sites. You don't need a fork lift or any other piece of equipment to unload your load at the job site. So it gives you a little bit more versatility and we're seeing quite a bit of growth in that product.

Ken Urban: 30:25

And then our newest product line is our container trailer which is specifically designed to haul 20 foot and 40 foot C containers. It would not be loaded C containers, they'd be empty. So it's specifically for that rental or leasing industry that they're leasing temporary storage units, which we feel is a growing industry and and we're really excited about that that product launch. We're in the second prototypes being built now and we'll be building our first batch of those through manufacturing in March. So we're very excited about that. So there's some of the growth points that we're looking at for the future.

Shed Geek: 31:04

So with like Jutland you have, I mean that still has a lot of shelf life on it. It seems like it has a lot explained. Break that product down for me a little bit in detail, for those who don't really know what it is or the intentions of why you created it.

Ken Urban: 31:22

So I think it got created, Ruben, some of you. Yeah, I can take that.

Rueben Miller: 31:26

So the for starters, if to really look at it, go to jutlandtruckbodiescom. That's the website has its own dedicated website. So when you go to pinehilltrailerscom and you go to the truck bed side of things, it'll take you to a different website. That also started off with the shed guys. So the shed guys came to us with a need hey, we want aluminum flat beds that are lower profile than what the normal manufacturers want to make to transport supplies, kits, mules. They want strobe lights, they want mirror bars, they want folding sides, they want toolboxes. So they simply came to us with a need and so we filled that need. We can build truck bodies. We bought some aluminum waters and we bought aluminum. We started doing and those first truck bodies were planted as pine hill truck beds. So then in about 2014, we realized, wait a minute, this is becoming more than this. Here probably needs to be its own thing, because after a while, people will call I saw these pine hill truck beds. I saw these pine hill toolbox. Well, okay, so that's when Jutland was created. That name was created and, yeah, it was founded by Pine Hill in 2014.

Rueben Miller: 32:48

So it started with flat beds and then transitioned into toolboxes Again, custom toolboxes. You can call in here any shape or size toolbox you can ever imagine that we've built. So then it turned into hey, can you build my service body like a tool truck? Because again, those guys want special shelving, they want drawers, they want interior lights, they want inverters to charge their batteries, they want fuel tanks, they want air tanks, like the concrete guys have water tanks. So we do all of that, and so service bodies is the huge thing of what we do today. And then the flat bed side is where you would get in on the wholesale side more, because then we got in on farmers. Or let's say, you have an F-250 that has a rusted out body. Well, the truck's still good. Okay, we'll take that thing off and put a flat bed on it. So we've filled that need. That's how the Jutland just became about.

Shed Geek: 33:47

Again, innovation being the mother of invention. You kind of listen to what your client is saying, but what they want go fill the space. I think there's still a lot of. I love that you guys are creators, you're innovators, I think, in the space. I appreciate that a lot because I think that's where service happens is when you listen to the needs really of the people.

Rueben Miller: 34:10

I think now would be a good time to insert that and make mention of our core values. Yeah, let's do that. So one of our core values is continuous innovation.

Shed Geek: 34:18

Okay.

Rueben Miller: 34:19

Another one is proven integrity, another one is higher standard. So all of those things fit well into a custom type mindset. If you don't have that, if you're not innovative and custom just kind of goes away. Yeah. So yeah, the higher standard, continuous innovation and proven integrity are deeply ingrained in Pine.

Shed Geek: 34:44

Hill Recipe for success. I mean it's really is it Gary Vee, that says success leaves clues? And really it sounds like your core values is a recipe for success and what's kind of worked for you guys. And you have to find that. Don't you as a company, your identity? You kind of have to find like what is that thing that works? And then when you get the leadership and everything figured out, it's just kind of like magic happens and there's some people on the other side of that and they understand that and there's people still making their way there and I would say we are as well.

Shed Geek: 35:21

I want to touch base on like just the sheer size of the industry and then like how, how much shed hauling makes up for that. I mean, every shed that's getting built outside of your onsites pretty well getting delivered. It's getting delivered somehow. I mean you guys have a here in East Coast. You have a portion on your sales side that just is dedicated to servicing, like Cardinal mules for instance. A lot of people might. I didn't know that before I got here. You guys work probably so closely with them, of course, because the two machines operate and add their own value independently, but at the same time you guys sort of collaborate, and this is an example of. We joke a lot about collaboration and competition where the two machines do two different things, and you'll even hear the jokes. I know you guys have heard them. You know, oh, I'm a trailer guy, oh I'm a mule guy, but you guys have found a way to have a marriage of the two products and make them work and you service them here. What's that experience been like?

Rueben Miller: 36:27

So the mules came to us in 2008 ish, I think 2007 maybe and they've came a long way. So yeah, they're, I cater to both. I mean, if there's a guy that wants to, I'm a trailer guy, well, okay. Well, we have every option in the book that we can put on the trailer. Or I want to bare bones trailer because I deliver everything about me meal, okay. So my, my personal opinion is that the two together is the perfect team. There are some situations where the trailer can do some things that the meal can't, and then also vice versa, it's yeah, if you can get there with a trailer and you have good ground conditions, you can probably get in and out quicker with a trailer than unloading the shed, hook it up the mule and then going where. If it's just a standard, if you can just get in. But the two together is a perfect team, 100%.

Rueben Miller: 38:57

P. I mean, the latest trend is just bigger. That's been the trend for the last while. You know, how much more difficult can I? I would say, how much more difficult can a shed delivery get than it already is? I would say there's been sheds put in the places that I mean, aside from flying them with helicopters, which I've seen some pictures of that happening, or cranes and stuff. So I don't know that. As far as trends, yeah, probably just bigger.

Shed Geek: 39:37

It seems like sometimes you don't know the moment until you're in it the change starts to happen and you just kind of have to adapt to it like quickly. I mean, there was a time where everybody was using PVC pipes and, you know, just delivering sheds in a much different capacity. You've seen a tremendous amount of change. How much do you have to change the product year over year? You guys have to go back in and like, take a look at, like your engineering team and say, hey, like we kind of see this on the rise, there's a little something different here. Or are you guys kind of just set back research and development time, specific for a new product?

Rueben Miller: 40:18

It's all organic. We're again. We're not, yeah, we're intentional about making changes, but it happens based on needs and it's again once you're in the moment. You arrive at this moment like, oh, this is there's a need for this. I mean, you can, like I said, you can still buy a bare bones trailer similar to what we built back in you know 2005. You can still do that, but most haulers see the value in having more of the other options available.

Shed Geek: 40:55

Lead times for a time was difficult to overcome. Maybe that was between parts, maybe that was the craziness of COVID. Maybe that was just the way we saw sheds flying off the shelf. New haulers come into the table. Where do you feel like that is now? Do you feel like that's more under control? Maybe you're seeing less haulers come to the table now, so there's not as big of a need for as many trailers. What's your pulse on that situation?

Rueben Miller: 41:26

I would say my phones is busy now as it was two years ago. Yes, our lead times have cut down. Our lead times are currently three to four months Lead times on parts, part sourcing issues. That pretty much went away. I feel like we're back to 2019, normal in that side of things.

Shed Geek: 41:45

I like to call it the old normal. Everybody was calling it the new normal, so now the old normal is when you got to like work for sales and figure this thing out. That was just an odd time that we thought was gonna be really bad and turned out really really good for us in the shed industry it's, or outdoor products in general. Training wise, I'm a new guy. I want to jump into shed hauling. I find Pine Hill People tell me that, hey, these guys are the leader in the industry. Go check them out. There's a lot of moving parts, from learning the remotes, the sideways wheels, the tail shifts, all the different things you got going on on these units. Is there a training honeymoon here for learning how to operate the equipment, or do you feel like most guys come in already?

Rueben Miller: 42:35

knowing. No, there's definitely some guys that come in that don't know a whole lot about it. But if I can quickly tell the people how our trader functions and there's one interesting observation that I've made about shed haulers that if you're there, there's a certain type of person that's gonna make it in the shed hauling industry and that's the more chaotic type. So if you're the type of person that likes to have your everyday the same I'll just be up. You're not gonna make it in the shed hauling.

Shed Geek: 43:11

It's not for you. It's not for you.

Rueben Miller: 43:13

Right. So then, and there's a few of those that try to, but then they sell their equipment and we want to do and something. That's because, like I said, it's, every single delivery is different, unless all you're doing is lot runs, which some of that goes on, but not near as much as it used to, because most guys any more haul inventory and do home deliveries at the same time Back in the 2015, 2010 to 2015 area, there may have been a bunch of sheds that got delivered wholesale and then you had the retailers did their deliveries, so that that shifted a little bit.

Rueben Miller: 43:45

In the industry, retailers tend to let the delivery guys do deliveries, but again on the on the training side of things, so if you're the type of person that can handle chaos and everybody's every day is different, those people can quickly grab the vision. When I try to explain to them how it works, they're like oh, okay, yeah, they're visionary people, like they can envision something that's not there. Like if you're on the phone with a customer like, well, I want my shed delivered, you know XYZ behind the garage. Like if you're a visionary person, you can kind of okay, sure, but if you're not, then so yeah, it can be really difficult to try to explain to someone that if that's not that type of person, but there's those people, there's most people anymore for what the equipment costs, most people go away like that non-chaotic people are just gonna go away. It yeah at that point.

Shed Geek: 44:48

You have to have a I don't know. I always say they're the hardest working like segment of the industry. The shed haulers are and they're the get it done kind of personalities. They just don't ask questions, they just hop in, they work, just get started. Which mimics and I want to get this on air mimics sort of I feel like the mentality at Pine Hill.

Shed Geek: 45:12

You guys are very intentional about you know what you do, like where I can tell that you guys are workers, you're busy. There's a little bit of like freedom in the shed industry in the sense that when I go to a manufacturer or a sales lot there's a. There's a bit of like non urgency, right, you know just kind of laid back, just kind of easy go. And you guys are very intentional with your work. From the time I got here to the time we sit down now, it's been very intentional. You guys are, you know you're like hey, I'm doing this podcast, right, but I'm checking my phone. I got work to do, I got things to do. We've got stuff that we were very intentional about customer service. We're very intentional about like our employees and like focusing on their needs and what they do.

Shed Geek: 45:54

I really don't think some folks have maybe a large grasp. Obviously a lot of the shed holders who've came and seen the places in person have but, like maybe your average said shed sales person, they might see the thing get delivered to their lot and see it get delivered to the customer, but I don't think they have like the full and you know sort of like picture of even like your organization Several employees, two different locations, a lot of moving parts, a lot of things happening and all of these things are very intentional to help make sure that the shed industry keeps moving, literally keeps moving. Is there anything that you guys want to share more from your perspective of Pine Hill and what I would consider to be a well known name, respected name and brand and leader in its own right in the logistics of side of the shed industry? Just anything that you guys would share to your, to your customers? Do you have a favorite experience that you've had, anything the Mike shares? What would you say to the haulers and the rest of the industry?

Rueben Miller: 47:08

So can. You might have some, but I have, I have something to put in. So some people from the outside looking in may think oh man, you know how this just happened, that you have two locations and you know 120 employees. Okay, well, I'll be the first to tell you that it's a lot of hard work and also be the first to tell you that growing has a lot of pains. And we're no, we're human, we're no different than anybody else. There's been some growing pains, so you know. A word to our customers. You know, hang in there, we're, we. We're here for the long haul. We're going to get better at what we do. You know service after the sale, and when you call in with something broken, there's probably 10 other lines busy with also broken down customers. So I know, when you're in the moment you feel like you're alone. But we here at Pine Hill we sometimes feel very alone to like we're. We feel like we're down in Death Valley, being shot out from all angles.

Rueben Miller: 48:08

Nobody cares about us because we're supposed to feed him bread and wine all day long. I mean, many of our guys get cold after hours and you know what? That it's what we do. So be patient where you know growing comes with the pain. But we, at the end of the day, the we, we love our job, we love serving customers.

Shed Geek: 48:30

So loudest moves come from the cheapest seats. I've been criticized by more people that haven't spent any money with me than I have people that do. Typically speaking, you can't make everyone happy and even though you continue to try, put your best effort forward. I always say give it to God, pray about it, move forward, because you just can't spend a whole lot of time on it like you guys are. If you're curious, come visit.

Shed Geek: 48:58

I mean, I don't want to just send a bunch of people your way and all of a sudden you got people calling you, but I would think you would welcome it as a shed all or hey, come check us out, come see what we're doing, watch the process and know that, even though we're not perfect, I would say that you're a lot farther along than many you know, and maybe most to be honest with you, because I'm just impressed with the facility, the demeanor, the attitude of the employees here, the kindness, like everything and it's obvious, professionalism and a lot of like meaningful and intention has went into these two locations and these organizations and I would imagine as you grow, whether that be service or product wise, you're just going to continue to do the same thing across the country. So I'm a huge fan already, but I let Ruben talk. You have something I can tell. You're talking about the bit there.

Ken Urban: 49:53

I have just one thing to kind of add to the trends I think we're seeing, and that's one in truck outfitting for haulers. I think it's been like this maybe for a while, but we're seeing even an increase in. It is just truck outfitting, for to ensure you're a truck and haul a variety of different trailers, I mean not just shed, shed home, but any type of haul and so from pinnall hitches to the regular hitches, to gooseneck to to fifth wheel, I mean we were outfitting a lot of trucks, a lot of semis and and we think that's a point of growth as well, for the company is is that is that truck outfitting, and we've never had a had a department to do that, but we're heading that direction where we're going to have a truck department. So just one one thing I'd like to add.

Ken Urban: 50:45

I think another thing I'd like to add is to piggyback off Ruben. It's just the customer experience. We have a new new CEO so you know I'm fairly new to seven months here and we talk about leadership and creating a leadership structure here for the care of our employees and but, but also the customer experience creating, creating the best customer experience we can create. We just hired a new CEO here about three weeks ago and that's going to be his big focus, particularly our Gordonville location where the customer the customer facing portion of our business To to just create the best possible experience for every one of our customers, whether they're buying some general trailer parts or a or a huge cabin trailer that they have a positive experience with with with us here at Pine Hill.

Shed Geek: 53:03

One of my last podcast, we talked about the differences and leaders and bosses. Everybody set a boss, but everybody wants to work for a leader, no matter how it works, like leadership matters and pain points and growth points and things like that. As you move forward in the industry, I've I've seen that happen, I mean, with the tech guys in our industry. It's a, it's a. Sometimes it's a All beats, all kind of. It's amazing to watch the commentary and it's like man, if you held yourself to the same level of standard or perfection that you do others, you'd step on your toes a lot. So be careful and know that guys are very intentional and companies are very intentional about creating processes that ensure safety, that ensure success and and they have to maintain profitability and they have to Think about customer service and all of these things. You guys are doing it as well as anyone I've ever seen Tremendous facility, awesome people, good product Simply stated, I mean it's, it's. It's pretty obvious whenever you show up, what happens whenever you're not here, wasting time on a microphone with me and after all, this time I finally got Ruben to sit down with me. Who knows, maybe I can, maybe we can keep this thing up once, once every other year or something or who knows what. I'd love to sit down and talk with you, just continue to get your pulse on the industry.

Shed Geek: 54:26

I've learned so much from being here today. I think what I take away from it most, outside of seeing you guys at the shed holding events and the trade shows, is really just the the sheer size of the shed holding side of the industry that maybe people don't appreciate or understand so much. So I know folks like Sam Beiler, jason Kaufman, have done a lot, you know, to kind of expand that knowledge as well through the shed holding events and things like that. But I just encourage shed sales people or manufacturers if they're not one in the same. Sit down with your hauler and learn a little bit. Go talk to them, maybe ride with them on a hall and it.

Shed Geek: 55:06

You'd be amazed how much it will help your sales side of things to be able to understand what you're doing, to be able to understand what they do. And if you're in and around Lancaster I'm sure you can swing in and say hey to these guys because what they do is is really awesome. They're very professional and I'm impressed just being at the facility. I'm appreciate, I appreciate being able to be here and walk with you. We'll make sure to show some of the footage we got on on YouTube for those who decide to watch the podcast and not just listen. Any questions that you guys have for me, whether it be podcast related, shed related, anything that you could possibly think of in any way, shape or form, I think it creates good conversation to just turn the mic around and let you interview me for a moment. If you don't have any questions, that's fine, but if you do, what would they be?

Ken Urban: 56:02

Have you done this with any other manufacturers like similar to us?

Shed Geek: 56:06

Other manufacturers. I sit down with. James paid at Creekside down in Chambersburg and talked with him. You know he I think I could say this and James would understand my heart because we had a great conversation Love that guy and love what he's doing with, like, the shed boss and all that. Those different things, different organization, you know what I mean. Like you guys are a larger organization and I think he would, you know, concede that, not saying better.

Shed Geek: 56:35

Let me be clear we like to pay homage to all listeners and it's really neat to get the difference in the functionality of the trailers, cause sometimes you might not get that on camera but you might get that off camera and, like, your haulers will definitely tell you about the different functionality. So that's where the real sales process happens. That's why I say those events are important. We've, you know, we've met with some of the other guys, like WKM and they're kind of close to home for me and Myers and things like that. I know those guys exist Really.

Shed Geek: 57:10

The reason Creekside really comes to mind is because of PD Weaver starting that and going to rent a barn and ended up being down in North Carolina and we he was, he was one of the founders of that and I think James bought that from him. So for me, I'm very relationship driven. So I would love to interview more shed hauling, whether it be equipment or shed haulers, or just kind of get not just their historical side of the industry, how they get here, what are you doing. But I'm not afraid to push in a little bit, as long as it's respectful. Right, we want to have good conversation that's educational and entertaining, but we don't want to have demeaning conversation that's this company's better than that one, or those kind of things. So we try to be very respectful of that and, as I told you guys, we can give you this episode before it goes out, to make sure that we've buttoned up all of our, you know, dotted all the eyes and cross the T's. We don't want to, we don't want to do anything.

Shed Geek: 58:02

That's not edifying and I kind of feel like this platform's not just mine, it's, it's part of the industry, so willing to interview anybody and everybody and, for that matter, willing to take on some advertising too.

Shed Geek: 58:14

So for those who want to talk about that, maybe I'll bend your ear on that when we get out of here and won't let, won't let Ruben leave. I've bugged this guy, just so you know, every chance I get and he's been very kind and polite and and I do appreciate the opportunity to be here. So, like it's not just a one way street, I appreciate that you guys put out content like this by sitting down with me to the industry, cause you got to think there's, there's guys that find that the shed industry through the podcast and they're like hey, I didn't know about all of these things. So like it's just a given to me that everybody knows Pine Hill but a new listener might not. And if they're thinking about getting into the industry and you know they want to talk to industry leaders and those who who are kind of in it daily, you guys are that as much as anyone I've seen.

Ken Urban: 59:02

So, yeah, we, yeah, we. We really appreciate the opportunity to get to be interviewed and be on the show.

Shed Geek: 59:08

It means a lot to me. I'm a big fan of prayer. I'm sure you guys are too. If you don't care, I just like to close out the segment and in prayer Cause again, we got to remember that all the talents we have were given to us.

Shed Geek: 59:20

So it wasn't for for those we wouldn't have the opportunity to be here. So, Lord, thank you for this day, Thank you for the opportunity to sit down with folks in this industry, learn about what they do, the history of of how they got here, their story, and we just kind of, as always, pray a prayer of safety over everyone in the industry open mindedness to to continue to learn, to want to educate ourselves, to be better in all, all aspects of the industry, and remember that our, our job is not our purpose, but our purpose is to find fulfillment in you and your word and in your mission and what you would have us do. So we just ask that you would make those things obvious and we appreciate the opportunity to build community through conversation. So we thank you, ask blessings over all the shed haulers today, wherever they are, wherever they may be, and that all of their future endeavors continue to give glory to you and succeed as long as we remember to put you first in all we do in Jesus' name Amen.