A Honeyed Venture From Bees to Buildings

When life handed James Wagner lemons, he built a shed to store his beekeeping gear and spun the experience into Five-Star Structures. Tag along on an enlightening journey with James, the charismatic beekeeper turned shed industry maestro, as we uncover his inspiring tale from the brink of joblessness to becoming the go-to shed dealer in Bristol, Tennessee. It's a story filled with laughter, perseverance, and a honeycomb of knowledge—from mastering beekeeping at the University of Tennessee to acing customer service in the shed business.

James shares his knack for understanding a customer's needs, deftly unpacking the sales tactics that foster meaningful conversations and lead to sales without pressure. It's a lesson in laughter and learning as we navigate the intricate dance of couple's decision-making and glean the wisdom from James' no-pressure approach.

Beneath the surface of simple shed transactions are the deep-rooted relationships that truly prop up our industry. James and I delve into the potential of a Shed Dealers Association designed to weave a network of shared wisdom among dealers. We look ahead at the industry's move towards specialization, applaud the spirit of collaboration, and cherish the connections that transform professional acquaintances into lifelong friends—like James enduring friendship with Beth. So pull up a chair and let’s toast to the camaraderie and collective growth that shape not only our businesses but our lives.

Also, find out how the podcast can be heard throughout the plain communities by dialing the number 330-997-3055. If the number is busy, just dial again! 

For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

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Transcript

Shed Geek: 0:37

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the shed geek podcast, and when we say education through entertainment, we mean education through entertainment. I think today is gonna be wildly entertaining. At least I hope so, James. Do you care to introduce yourself a little bit about who you are and what you do, sir?

James Wagner: 0:55

Okay, I'm James Wagner and owner operator here at five-star structures in Bristol, tennessee. We're about two or three miles from the state line, less than a mile as a crow flies that way across the ridge, and I'm a dealer for Cherokee structures out of Chucky, tennessee, and for Kaufman gazebos out of Clark Range, tennessee, and for a couple of carport and garage companies as well.

Shed Geek: 1:30

So busy, you got a lot going.

James Wagner: 1:32

Try to.

Shed Geek: 1:32

Yeah, well, it's good. You're very welcoming and I say people who have charisma can sell, sell, sell all day long. And you have charisma. From the moment we got here. You've just been fun. You and Beth are. You guys are fun. You're blessed to be around. There's no way a customer wouldn't want to come in here and buy a shed from you. There's no way I would love to work with you every day because you could not have a bad day and be around, James Wagner. There's just no way you could. I love this guy already. So tell me, James, how you got into the shed industry. How'd this come about, did you?

James Wagner: 2:11

just have it up on it. It actually became about because for a while there I was jobless and go to church with some folks at Green County Mennonite, if you're ever in Green County and on a Sunday in the church to visit, come visit with us. Well, I'm not a member there, but I've been a long-term visitor but some of the folks at the church there. Dean Wengard, one of the primary owners of Cherokee structures, offered me a job in the shop doing interior finish work. I had some experience in that and I enjoyed that and I'd like to think I'm at least somewhat good at it, but discovered I was too old for that. My knees and my hips are shot. So I moved to sales and worked with them in sales. I was a sales officer about a year and a half and then October of 2020, I believe it was I left there. In the first week of November I opened up this slot and became a dealer.

Shed Geek: 3:16

So you've been at sales for about two years.

James Wagner: 3:20

Shed sells three, four and a half years of shed sales. I've been selling stuff since I was five or six years old.

Shed Geek: 3:30

So tell me, tell me a little bit about your story. What before sheds? You've talked to me a little bit about a few things and I know they're there. If we open it up, we're gonna open Pandora's box to on some of these conversations. But I want you to take as much of the mic and and feel free to. One of the things that you told me immediately is that you are a beekeeper, a very seasoned beekeeper, so not just like doing this on the side. You're very skilled in beekeeping.

James Wagner: 4:02

Is that fair? It's like any other endeavor you learn. The more you learn, the more you rise that you don't know anything. Yeah, certainly that way in beekeeping is that way in the shed industry. There's always something else to learn. That's why I enjoy reading, like the, having a senior movie.

Speaker 3: 4:24

Shed.

James Wagner: 4:24

Builder, shed Builder magazine and listening to, there's some little podcast somewhere. What's the name of that thing? Oh yeah, shed Peak Podcast.

Shed Geek: 4:34

Probably doing yourself harm.

James Wagner: 4:37

But I frankly learned a lot from and that's been a big help to me.

Shed Geek: 4:45

I appreciate that We've had the luxury and the privilege really of having a lot of folks who've come before us that's done this for a long time, shed Builder included. You know the the pathway that they've set for us to even have this opportunity and, with technology always growing, having sort of a digital presence in the industry made sense and. But it's really cool to get a lot of guys on here and gals and talk about, like, their experience in sales or manufacturing sheds or hauling sheds or whatever it is, and not only can it be entertaining, I think, but it can also, it can be educational and that they can say, well, I either didn't know that about that company or it changes my perception of them because you come on air and you kind of you get a chance to sort of control. The narrative I guess you'd say is that's the speech I've been going with, but yeah, it's, it really is, so tell me about bees, bees Wow.

James Wagner: 5:41

You said, you, you did you did how many hours we have.

Shed Geek: 5:46

You did a. You became like a master beekeeper through a course at University of Tennessee.

James Wagner: 5:51

Correct. Yeah, I was in the first master beekeeping course that was ever held at University of Tennessee in Knoxville under Dr Skinner.

Shed Geek: 5:58

So what would have been sort of the driving force for that?

James Wagner: 6:05

I've always believed, no matter what I do, what anybody does, that they should take their approach of one. If it's something you want to do, pray about it first, seek the Lord's guidance and all things and then if he wants you to do it, then it's worth doing.

James Wagner: 6:28

And if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. And if it's worth doing right, it's worth doing right the first time and it's worth learning about. So, just with bees or anything else, my approach was to learn as much as I could about it over learn if you will. And same with Sheds. I read the magazine, listen to the podcast and even go through the propaganda. I mean the literature from the manufacturers of the components. You know the supplies and all that. I look at those things. They could be this way.

James Wagner: 7:08

You know this possibly make a difference there or if a customer has a comes up with a situation, hopefully I can offer an alternative that they have not even thought about it's like, as an example, just earlier today had this couple looking at they want something to convert to a chicken, to chicken coops we have or too small for their needs.

James Wagner: 7:31

So we looked at some alternatives and and then, in the process of looking at the price and and the taxes and all of that, I some about the agricultural exemption card. They had never heard of that and so that's okay looked up the way for them to apply, make a pli application for that in the state of Virginia, because we get a lot of customers from Virginia, because we're so close proximity and that's going to help them potentially save hundreds of dollars a year and not just in the shed not just in the shed, but taking that yeah right stopped anything, so you added value for you.

Shed Geek: 8:18

It was a. It was a value add is that sort of your approach to selling sheds here? What's sort of like your experience been for three years? What do you take away from it after three years?

James Wagner: 8:30

my. When the customer comes here, I'm my number one goal is not just to sell a shed. I want to find out something about that person and find out what they're looking for, and so I didn't ask a lot of questions. What's your primary purpose? Well, we're gonna put a lawn mower in it, or we got a storage building that we're paying rent on. That you know we're gonna get. We just want to get our own shed. Okay, you have a lot of things in boxes and totes that you want to keep, but you don't get to very often. Well, if they do, then I'm gonna stem toward a high wall barn, for instance, because you got the overhead storage just open into questions like that and that I want to find out more about them and what they need so I can help them decide what would be best for them, and then find out something that's best for the customer and give them options, and I think most people appreciate that even that's one of the things that salesperson Beth that works here with you, she said that right away, off-camera.

Shed Geek: 9:40

She said one of the things I, one of the things I really appreciate about you, james, well, we, we. She said you don't encourage me and I noticed that you don't go out and try to sell. Right away you start asking questions. You really want to find out how to help the customer. It's been said that sales is a transfer of enthusiasm. If you really believe in your product and you really believe in that, it can solve it, you're trying to just transfer that enthusiasm and dream with them really right the the.

James Wagner: 10:16

I actually encourage customers to go to other dealers, go to other lots, look around and see, because I have full confidence that I have the highest quality product. Otherwise I wouldn't sell Cherokee sheds. I have full confidence in that. And maybe they are looking for something cheap. They don't care about quality, they're just wanting price.

James Wagner: 10:41

Well, most of the time we can be there too, but if not, that's okay, you know, because they'll remember that maybe they'll know somebody else or maybe, when that the plate, what I was saying, oh the pleasure, low price, oh yeah long before what everybody's heard that saying and and I've had people like that with chicken coops and that's oh no, we could never pay that much for a chicken coop and they come back, you know, a couple of months later and say well, you know, we went down to a tractor supply and bought one of those chicken coops. It was a lot cheaper and it was too cheap. And so we're back to buy quality, because it falls apart even when they're trying to build a thing. And so I think in the long run that does better for the business if you find out what they need and just be honest with them and help find a product that fits their needs and not what you want to sell oh, that's a mouthful right there.

Shed Geek: 11:43

Help them find what they need and not what you're, what you're trying to push. I think we can get this right. Thank goodness for Google. Right, because we can. So, ben Franklin, the bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten that's the one that's a, that's a one that stands the test of time. I've said this a hundred times. I'll say it a hundred more no one ever comes in and says give me less quality. They only say give me less price that's right you know everybody wants a deal.

Shed Geek: 12:10

Understand that, because everybody's trying to save. But no one ever says all this stuff you got in here, charge me the same amount, but I'm gonna need you. Take some of these two by four. Sound right?

James Wagner: 12:20

just didn't work. Nobody says that. Nobody says that they all want or take off that quality LP smart siding and put up some Masonite or some cardboard walls or something yeah, no, nobody wants less quality.

Shed Geek: 12:34

So you, you found the key to sales in, in, in. In terms of transferring the enthusiasm, dreaming with them, I used to always love the idea of just kind of letting them go on a rant, that's right what do you plan to use this for and then, and then just step out of their way.

Shed Geek: 12:53

Well, you know we've got this and we're wanting to put that in there, and then you just talk through it with them. Well, I mean, that makes good sense. Your four-wheeler could fit right over here in the school. You want me to get a tape measure. We can just check, because I want to make sure. Let's make sure it fits through. Let's open up the doors and make sure it's gonna fit through the doors. Do you have the size on that? You know just little things like that. When you start to envision with them, right, they begin to see it in the backyard.

James Wagner: 14:46

And many years ago, when I was in another industry, it was like this that if you ask them a question, an open-ended question is always best, and especially you've got the husband and wife there and they're starting to dialogue and they're answering the question and bouncing off each other. Basically, you ask a question and you shut up and then let them do what they've done. They'll figure, they'll dialogue and they figure out. Yeah, he's right about this. Maybe we ought to take this option or look at this as an alternative.

Shed Geek: 15:26

Well, I find that sometimes you get to be the hero too as a salesperson. Occasionally You're seen as the information gatherer, the expert on the product. I've been married for 23 years, almost 24 years, and then, let's see, we dated for four years prior. So I'm smart enough to know that. My wife knows that I don't know everything, and she'll tell me from time to time, believe it or not.

Shed Geek: 15:57

But we will, we will. I remember whenever we went into Lowe's one time we was looking for a washer and dryer and I know she loves it when I tell the story and I said this is the one we want. I walked right over to it before I knew it. Didn't take very long to figure it out. I said this is the one we want. This is definitely the one we're going to get. So let's talk to the salesperson. We go through every one of them. It feels like we're there for an hour. I said if you were going to buy one, what would you buy? What's the one that you would get? And he takes her over there and shows her the first one I pointed at and he says this is by far the best one, this is the one that you want to get. And she looks at me and she's like, yeah, I think I kind of like this one.

Shed Geek: 16:38

So they're doing what they do already as husband and wife. I don't know. You've probably done this. I know we've done this. Next thing you know the sales guy's coming out to try to sell you a car because you just whipped in the lot, because you saw something that caught your eye, same way with the shed and then next thing you know they're coming over and everybody's grumbling oh no, here comes this guy. Maybe some people are excited, but generally speaking, you do the speech right Back and forth. If you go in to talk you're like well, who's talking? Am I talking? Are you talking? Who's going to talk to him? We got to get this straight. We don't want him to sell us something, because we might actually buy something that he wants. So they're already geared up to prepare against all of your magic sales tricks.

James Wagner: 17:17

You're picturing this.

Shed Geek: 17:18

Yeah, so how do you put them at ease? I tend to think that you and Beth do a good job at that.

James Wagner: 17:28

I well, it's probably. We'd probably see it all night come up with little things that you can do, and one thing that pops to mind immediately is many times, if they're like that, I'll go oh to what. We kind of got an idea of what we might want. Why don't we go into the office and let me work you up a quote. I'll print it out for you. You can pick the colors you want. We can pick the doors where you want, the windows where you want, any of the features you want.

James Wagner: 17:54

Take the ones the way, the ones that you don't want, and we'll just put them in there and then I'll print it out and it'll be an itemized quote so that everything's line-items and you can take it home and pray about it, discuss it, and if you want to make any changes, just call me and we can make those changes.

James Wagner: 18:14

I can email you an updated version of it and if there's something you want to take out, you can see what the price is and how much it was saved, the way we got to knock off X dollars and look for the things you want to take off, and that usually sets up an ease because they think, ok, he's not going to try to get a check out of us today. He's going to let me take this home and sleep on it, and I think that really sets some of the ease. And that's just one thing that I do with nearly every customer. I don't try to sell them the first time. I don't try to, I don't want to. I want them to make sure that they know what they want and that they're ordering what they want.

Shed Geek: 18:52

And we talked about that A lot of times. They just don't know what that is. How do you walk them through that stage?

James Wagner: 19:00

By asking the questions what is the primary purpose of this building? Is it to store stuff? Or is it to store a motorcycle, or a side by side, or whatever they call these things? Ok, how big is this thing that you want to park in there? The stuff that you're storing, is it in boxes or totes? Do you have a lot of those? You have a lot of holiday decorations that you want to get to once a year. Questions like that help me to steer them into one style of building.

Speaker 3: 19:40

And oftentimes.

James Wagner: 19:42

even then I'll give them a quick one or two sit-ins rundown of the different styles that are available the high wall barns, the cottage barns, the studios, the Quakers, what have you. And I'll say something along the lines of the high wall barn, despite the name actually has a shorter wall. It has a fabulous loft space. So if you have a lot of junk I mean fine collectibles and memorabilia that you want to store in there, that might be the option to go. But if you don't have a lot of that you just want to put in your lawn mower, your motorcycle, the gas cans, wheelie ears, that type of thing. And maybe a cottage is the way to go. You've got taller walls, you've got shelf space and it's a little slightly lower in cost. So it's just been so on and on. But I won't know that until I ask him the question.

Shed Geek: 20:32

Yeah, it's definitely about being curious. That way, you could add value for me. What, whenever you take that approach, do you feel like it helps to have inventory on the lot? Do you feel like more inventory is better? Do you think that's necessary in order to capture more cells, or do you think that you're able to move past that with limited inventory? What's your thoughts?

James Wagner: 20:56

on that I mean to have, certainly in my case and on my lot. I like to have an example, at least one example of nearly everything. For instance, a ramp. Have you thought about a ramp? Well, yeah, let me show you two types, two different types. And this wood and plain Jane Wood and Ramp comes in four basic lengths. And here they are. And then we've got this other aluminum ramp that is much more expensive, but and I'll show them to them.

James Wagner: 21:34

And wow, and I've sold a lot of ramps just that way. Well, I'll take them into a high wall barn and I'll show them for instance, wrap around loft and you can vastly increase your usable storage space in a much smaller footprint by doing that. Ok, let's look at this, take a good look, I'm going to look at this. Now. Let's go to this next one over here and it may be the exactly same thing. Only I'll say you see, how much lighter is it in here? Yeah, what's causing that? We'll step inside and look up and we've got what we call the ridge light, the polycarbonate skylight for a better terminal on the ridge, and I can sell them. Now, I can tell them about that till I'm blue in the face. I'll never sell a one, or rarely sell one, but if I can show them that, then I can make the sale. Typically and that's true with any of these features Most of my buildings that I sell have some kind of an upgrade on too, and you've got a lot of dealers that I've met that they want to sell a building off the lot, and there's something that's inventory to stock.

James Wagner: 22:47

Frankly, you get paid faster for that right. I've taken the opposite approach. I don't care if I get paid much, much, much later. If I can find out what the customer wants and, more important, what they need and steer them toward that and then bring them into the office and show them the color options, show them the roof options and then do a quote. We can put the doors where you want them, the windows where you want them. They're going to be a much happier buyer and they're going to give me more referrals and that's where and repeat business. So I think that's where the value is. I would much rather have a happy customer and make the money later than have a satisfied customer and make a couple of bucks today.

Shed Geek: 24:47

What is your relationship with? How is your relationship with your, with your builders and with your haulers? You've come into this. You've been at it three years. You know there's a rumor. I'm sure it's true that some dealers tend to over promise to get the sale.

Shed Geek: 25:10

You know, with their, with their hauler or you know, and next thing you know, it creates a bad situation for the the hauler.

James Wagner: 25:20

And for myself. I think that's where I'm kind of an advantage over most dealers that I've met. I've met quite a few for different companies and you know several different states. I'm an advantage because I've been on the other side, I've been working the shop, I've had a chance to work in the sales, at the manufacturer's sales office, and I've seen the other side, so to speak, and what can and what can't be done or shouldn't be done, whereas sometimes dealers might not realize that this is not right. Oh yeah, we can get, you can buy this building. We'll have it to you in three days. Can't promise them that yeah because I'm not the hauler.

James Wagner: 26:10

Yeah, that's outside of my control and so I'm just honest with the customer. I said that is totally out of my control. Typically and I'll never say it always is I say it typically within a week to two weeks from the time it's built you can get it. Or if you get a shed off, my lot, typically we can have delivered within a week to two weeks. Now sometimes we can work magic and get it less sometimes because of whether it might be longer, but the I have a wonderful relationship with our transporter, which is K-Man Transport out of Limestone, tennessee, and just a good company, good owners. The drivers are absolutely fabulous and if, for some reason, I was transplanted to another place and start all over, I would want to beg, borrow or steal one of their drivers or two of them to come there too. You know, because they are that good. I just find their skill level just I'm always amazed at it, what they can do.

Shed Geek: 27:18

What a great testimony to work alongside the builders and the haulers closer. So I think a lot of companies sometimes struggle with that. We watch some of the Facebook pages, social media pages, as we can and sometimes those questions just come up, or you see a complaint come up and I think to myself you know, do they know? Do they know the frustration that you're having Because, like, I've never been able to solve anything that I didn't know you know was a problem. So I always encourage people, go in and talk to them. Most people are more reasonable than you think.

Shed Geek: 27:54

It's kind of like the news, you know everybody. It's gloom and doom on the news and I'm like wait a minute. It doesn't feel like gloom and doom when I actually talk to people. It only feels like gloom and doom on the news. So like I find that whenever you actually sit down with somebody face to face and have a conversation, it puts to rest a lot of rumors or assumptions and it just I don't know.

Shed Geek: 28:15

It's always worked better for me just sitting on a Walmart bench. I'll just start a conversation with somebody. Usually you'll find something really quick with in common with them, just a common point to have a discussion, and you're like I don't know. I think sometimes it sounds worse than what it is. Always ask people, you know, have you talked to them about that? You know, I'm sure your sales manager has or will address that. I think if you go in with a mentality to mindset it can be done or it can be accomplished, or we will do that, we will figure that out, as opposed to just, I'd say, nagging about it. I'm not trying to get any enemies here today, but I tend to feel like that solves the problem more.

James Wagner: 28:57

Right.

Shed Geek: 28:58

You know, tell me, tell me what would be the best piece of advice that you could give somebody in sales, being in this three years now and having the background that you did in building manufacturing inside, but what would be the best piece of advice you could give somebody that you didn't know when you started? Tough one, isn't it?

James Wagner: 29:24

Yes, it is. You can give multiple if you want From sales perspective, from a sales perspective as a dealer, yeah, what do you wish?

Shed Geek: 29:31

you would have known that you didn't know, and that might would help someone else.

James Wagner: 29:38

Well, I said product knowledge, but I kind of knew about that because I've been in sales before and I think product knowledge is extremely important.

Shed Geek: 29:46

But as pertains to shed sales, Is there anything in particular that's like helped you the most Like whether it be software or e-commerce, or learning?

James Wagner: 30:05

Mine is just. I think it helps me most. I guess we kind of touched on it with the asking open-ended questions for the customers. I try to develop a rapport with the customers, or the perspective. This is called a perspective customers because they're not a customer yet, just people that walk in my lot, try to ask questions about not only their building needs but about themselves personally. So, shannon, are you from this area originally? Well, no, I came from wherever or right down the road. Yeah, I was just born right now. Really, did you graduate from Kettering High School? No, I graduated from Central. Really, yeah, I did too. And yeah, in fact, here's some of your books. What year did you graduate Anything to establish some common ground with these people? So, do you get to go to church anywhere?

James Wagner: 30:58

Yeah, I got over to XYZ Church. Really, that's great. I got a friend that goes over there, Billy Bob. You know Billy Bob Smith, yeah, he's great, so that you have common interests, some common friends. It's a way of basically getting a referral. If I get a referral right. Yeah, and it's just general rapport. That's the most helpful thing to me personally, and I don't know that that would work for everybody. I don't know.

Shed Geek: 31:35

Has anything surprised you? Have you learned something that you were surprised to? I'm better than I expected in that particular area of sales, or I have a weakness there where I want to learn more or where I need to study better. Is there anything that comes to mind?

James Wagner: 31:53

Not immediately, but I'm constantly reminded as we touched on this earlier that the more I learn, the less I realize that I know you never know everything, and so I'm always trying to learn and just listening to the podcast magazine and the Shed.

James Wagner: 32:18

Convention and I would say that if you're a Shed dealer and you've never been to the Shed show, shame on you. Be there next year or be oblong. But you'll learn so much, even though those things are geared mostly toward manufacturers, builders. As a dealer there's stuff to be learned and picked up. It's just little nuggets here, little nuggets there, and you get a much. By getting a much bigger picture of this industry you can better serve your customers Because you kind of understand what can be Not necessarily just what is, but what can be and you can talk to other dealers, other manufacturers, and that's where those nuggets come in, would you say?

Shed Geek: 33:12

Right, like it's not always about competing. I mean, we can't sell a shed. One guy can't sell a shed to everybody anyway and I've learned.

James Wagner: 33:22

I mentioned the owners of Cherokee structures I'm a dealer for. Dean Wanger has been absolutely valuable to teach me so much over the years, and Ed Koblenz and Dan Smucker, other partners, and they've taught me so much. You know, just been around and watching what's going on, the guys in the shop when I was there. If I was to hire somebody else today to come and help me sell sheds, I would really want them to try to go work in the shop for a couple or three months, go over there and work in the shop for just two or three months and then come back here. I think that would be so helpful to everybody. There's probably too many people that are selling sheds that have never seen the building process. At the very least, whoever your vendor is, ask your vendor hey, can I come hang out at the shop for a day or two and just observe. I kept an imagine that they would say no, talk to your hauler and say, hey, can I ride with you one day? I'm not expecting you to pay me, just let me ride and I'll help you. Take a pair of gloves and pitch in. Help them set those blocks. You'll see what they have to go through and what they can and what they can't do.

James Wagner: 35:04

Enos Kaufman that owns K-man Transport is our transport. I've written with him a timer to oh wow, did I learn a lot, and that really helps me here. And then I hear horror stories of where some dealer has sold this building that can't be delivered or it was a nightmare for them to deliver, or something in the build process is just doesn't jive with what they told the customer or even promised the customer. I try not to promise anything, you know, except what I know is absolute fact and what can be done. Everything else is available. Like I said, we generally can get it delivered within weeks to two weeks generally, but there are exceptions, you know. Things happen, life happens, and so I'm just. I just try to be as honest with the customers I can on all those things. But then learning the different facets of this industry will help you. And that's the shed show and go into the shop to watch them being built, knowing who the builders are, knowing builders personally, at least meeting them and speaking with them, knowing your drivers speaking with them.

Shed Geek: 36:20

You can't go wrong by educating yourself about going to these events and and and not only industry trade stuff. I mean, I know they're having shed hauler events all over. You know, go to those in the barbecues or things like that, you still get to know. Even if your hauler is not there, you get to know. But it builds a camaraderie, it sort of builds a value in a network.

Shed Geek: 36:41

I mean networking works you know it works when you, when you use it, but it just it increases your information and I love you know. I remember hearing this so much in my life.

James Wagner: 36:51

You know, the more you know, the more you know you don't know that's right, and and that that I mean well just and and even building a camaraderie and a network with other dealers, and that's where most industries have some kind of association, for instance, and there's not a shed dealers association. It doesn't exist. I really wish there were. Yeah, because you know, I try to talk to some other dealers every now and then just to learn, say, what are you doing? You know, can you, how do you do this?

James Wagner: 37:26

and they'll ask me, you know, and get some guidance on things and hopefully sometimes I can help them you know and and I think something like that would just be of tremendous value to dealers I mean most of the things I've been involved with in selling over the years. You know there's been some kind of a group that and you've talked about on the podcast before we're not really competing. Somebody said once something about you know, basically I mean the, the, the, the pie gets bigger. Oh, something about a tide and boats oh yeah, rising tide lifts.

Shed Geek: 38:09

All right, tyler may have, and I love that, and that is absolutely true.

James Wagner: 38:14

You can help each other out.

James Wagner: 38:17

I don't really come consider myself a competent competitor of other dealers and I don't consider them a competitor of mine, because we can really help each other. There's enough out there for all of us and we can actually help each other out and all of us do better. Sell more sheds, help more customers. I would rather say, help more people with their storage needs or their backyard accessory structure needs, because it might be a shed, maybe they they're after a gazebo or a nice pavilion or outdoor furniture, or maybe they need a carport, something to protect their RV or what have you, and we can learn from each other and learning how to do that

Shed Geek: 40:04

i I love what somebody was saying to me the other day. They were like you know, competition does make you you better, but but you know, collaboration works really good too. There's a higher calling. I tend to think that there's a higher calling to sort of what we're doing day in and day out and what business we're in and and what the Lord would have us doing is just part of that. But we have a higher calling to to Just be better people. And somebody told me the other day he said I didn't know it was an industry we just built. Shed's growing up. I didn't know there was a whole. I mean, you know you don't think of it as more of an established, mature Industry and it's it's become that.

James Wagner: 41:12

Yeah, that's something else I picked up on the on the, on the podcast. It's something that was rolling around my noodle for a long time, but listening to the Shed Eat podcast helped me to, I guess, enunciate it better. That is an industry you know, you can have. You can get into this and go out In the woods and cut down some trees and saw them up into lumber, and then take the lumber and build a shed and Then say, oh, now what I'm going to do with this shed, and go out, market it and then sell it, even do a rental contract on it. You know, take payments by here, pay or whatever you're doing. And Then, oh, the customer bought it now got to get there and you go and haul it and set it up and do it all and then do your Accounting work, your and all your other business work. That you're getting yourselves into a lot of different businesses, really, aren't you? Yeah, and To me it's physics. You remember when you're in elementary school science class and you get? The teacher gets this little beaker water.

James Wagner: 42:16

Oh he gets a little odd dropper of food coloring. Oh drops it in there and it's like concentrated, and you learn to process the diffusion and it goes outward. That's just physics and I think this industry is the same way where one person might do all those things. I've said the four mention tasks. They start eventually, start spending those off and I Think probably the first one to go is the cutting down the trees. Right, and that's the extreme example and I'm sure there's very I'm with you.

James Wagner: 42:50

There's probably some people out there that are cutting down trees and using their own lumber to build sheds. But let's just say that's an, it's a very small minority. But you're buying Lumber from a place and then you're going to hire an outside accountant to do that, because I'm terrible at math, I Don't do math and and I like, I'm good at paperwork but I'm bad at it because I'm a well, I'm OCD and I'm the king of procrastinators. Let's just put it that way. So you hire an accountant, right, then you're, you're concentrating on building and selling sheds, and At some point you got to make a decision.

James Wagner: 43:35

What is my core business? The core business at the center of it all In this industry? To me, the way I see it, it's a. You may have a different opinion, I See, as the core of this industry are the builders. Without the builders you don't have the sheds right. Everything else is a spin-off the hauling, so they might have Spin off the the hauling aspect of it, and so somebody gets into the hauling business. They're not in the building business, nor the selling business, they're in the hauling business. Then you'll spend off dealers so that the dealers are in the sales business. They're not in the building business, they're not in the hauling business, they're not in the accounting business, they're in the selling business, and that allows the builders to concentrate on what they do really well. My vendor certainly in that category.

James Wagner: 44:28

Great I Been asked for why do I sell it? Because I sell quality. If I didn't believe I had the highest quality building in this entire region, I wouldn't sell that right, and so I got to believe in that. And because they're really good at that. So that's where me I think their core business is. That's what needs to be concentrated on. And if it was me, that's exactly the way I would concentrate on it and and but they would collaborate. You know the learning process. If they're collaborating with other builders, they're picking up nuggets, right? They?

James Wagner: 45:04

might not be on the other side of the country might be up in Pennsylvania.

James Wagner: 45:07

Yeah from some of these Old-order builders and picking up a new Technique or a new feature that might do well here and add it to the inventory of options. You know, for instance, and they're really good at that and that helps me as a dealer, sell a quality building and Do a better job of meeting the needs of my customers and my potential customers right. So I see that I Know in previous podcasts you've asked where do you see this industry going, and Consolidation seems to be okay and I have to disagree with that respectfully.

Shed Geek: 45:49

I see it's an interest, we'll edit that out, that's no problem.

Speaker 3: 45:54

I want to hear what your thoughts are. You've got me it's more got me, so it's.

Shed Geek: 45:59

I'm laser focused right now and everything you're saying, so it's more diffusion happening.

James Wagner: 46:03

I think the they're either going to build or they're going to haul, or they're going to sell or going to do accounting or they're going to be a supplier Lumber windows if you want to get midco or Mentioned there, you're fine yeah or wherever you get your supplies from LP. You know, I will give Joe needle a plug, though, because he's our he's an awesome guy. When I see his Jeep pulling my line. Yeah, bless God, today's a great day.

Shed Geek: 46:38

You know, we love he was so gracious to let us sleep like we were at his house. We would have to eat with them, did episode right there at his house, but yeah, I mean, we parked RV there overnight.

James Wagner: 46:50

We just had a blast with him, yeah but I see that fragmenting, in that the specialty segments of the industry Continue to spin off, you know. So that you're going to concentrate on one area You're not gonna be a builder and a seller I you want to spin that off to dealers but on the other hand, the consolidation, I think will happen within those fragments. Shed haulers, for instance, might buy another shed hauler and acquire their trucks and their drivers. A Builder might acquire, if there's another small shop in the area you know it's not too many of those around here, but I Heard a place, this, where there's a lot of small business, small builders, and they're very small well, one might acquire the shop and the personnel and the equipment of it and the customer base of and dealer list of the next one, and it consolidates that way.

James Wagner: 47:48

Dealers, you know, might acquire another lot or open, just open another lot, and I think the consolidation will happen within those segments of the industry. But the industry itself will continue to fragment and specialize. That's just my take on it. Oh, I love the way you broke it down.

Shed Geek: 48:03

I like that Because you do see some of that now, even with some of the larger haulers. I mean running a whole fleet of eight or nine or ten trucks or you know Businesses wanting to get away and I don't think it's because they want to get away from from shed building if they grew up as a shed builder. Some people are looking for opportunity in business to provide. Some people are looking for opportunity in business because they're passionate about what they do. So there's some shed builders out there that don't like what they're doing and there's some that wouldn't do anything different. It just we all go through that, right, you know, and same probably in sales and hauling and everything else, and maybe you find something that you like more and and maybe you know you're being called to that you should do that.

Shed Geek: 48:47

Right right, but then at the same time and I've said this before I mean with maturing of an industry is change, and we all Insult change because we don't know like we, typically speaking, we insult what we don't know. Technology is a perfect example. I know a lot of people who say it's stupid. What's stupid? Because you know they might not understand it, or maybe you know, I know fashion, so here paper.

Shed Geek: 49:13

I didn't pick up a computer till I was 30, but then, as I began to go through the painstaking Process of learning it and making myself learn what doesn't come to me naturally, like math or like music, you know, what did somebody say the other day? I think it was we was joking around at Fox Country Sheds and Somebody said what instrument you play, and so that don't play any. And she said she said, you're like me, I play the radio, that's the instrument I play. And I thought it's funny because uh, yeah, that's right.

James Wagner: 49:44

But I play pretty mean kazoo, do you?

Shed Geek: 49:46

Yeah, we're gonna, we want to get it on the podcast, but we, we just, you know, we sort of insult what we don't know or understand. It's easy so like, and a lot of times guys get into to hauling and the next thing you know these apps are creating things they have to do that require more responsibility of them or in in building. You know, you think you're making a situation easier by giving them a Technology that goes beyond drawing a box on a piece of paper, but but now they've got to think through that and figure that out. So there's a learning curve and there's. It takes a certain amount of time. Now some guys pick it up, or guys pick it up Just quickly.

Shed Geek: 50:27

My son's perfect example I say I tell him all the time he's 19. I'm like he already knows more than I know, and In technology because he grew up in it, it was easy for him. Me I know more than my dad did right in that in that area. But the point being, we just kind of criticize it if we don't understand it. A lot of these shed guys they got into building and they were like I don't want to get drug into these other worlds of that's right, it's right and then.

James Wagner: 50:52

So that's the special 10 towards specialization. But then, on the same token, those who are engaged in a particular specialty, whether it's the building or the hauling or the selling, the dealing, the dealers, they can they need to get together, you know, and they can expand that more, yes, and do better yes yeah, and to do that, you really need to collaborate and Get together and learn from each other. I appreciate you other dealers are not my competitors.

Shed Geek: 51:27

Yeah.

James Wagner: 51:27

I'm learning from them and hopefully I can contribute a thing or two to them as well, and I just let me just give you one small example. There's a Fellow that I used to work with when I was at Cherokee in the cells, david White. So let me give him a plug. He's in, he has a Cherokee dealership now in Oak Ridge, tennessee, and he does a really good job with metal buildings, carports and and the like. But he told me once James, I do great with the bigger Metal buildings, but I have a hard time selling carports. Why is that? He said I don't have any Now bear my he's got.

James Wagner: 52:07

I'm sure David love call me up when he hears this and correct me. It's like six or seven Larger metal buildings and he can sell the stink out of those because it's what he has and and what stuck. What he said, that stuck with me is that you sell what you have and he doesn't have the Simple carport, so he has a hard time convincing people he can. He can sell them a cheap simple carport because, yeah, it's a bigger ones. It goes back to what we were talking about with the Sheds, where I Think it's important to have an example of different things, different styles, different options on your lots and on your lot so that they can take from one and add to the other and put together what they want and what they need, because you sell what you have. If you don't have something with a particular feature, say, then you'll never sell that because people are visual because people are visual.

Shed Geek: 53:06

I think that's why video has so much potential, not just in this industry but just in general. You know we push story brand and storytelling and short-form video content constantly. But our thought is, primary Communication is here in person, with me and you. We go out to the lot, we look at it. But the visual aspect I mean that's why the 3d configurators came to be is because it's kind of hard to explain to a person a Mental picture if they're not equipped to handle the mental picture that you're trying to present. You might be a bad presenter, you might be butchering trying to explain or they just may be bad.

Shed Geek: 53:43

That's right, that's right. So there's a.

Shed Geek: 55:10

Everything that you're talking about. I had a point here that I wanted to tie back into. This is a book I was reading called the Art of Letting Go, stop Overthinking, and there's these. It's Nick Trenton. I enjoyed this book so much here recently that I thought about even buying some of these and handing them out as just sort of a maybe a gift for, like, clients or something you know, something I don't know whenever they come on. But I enjoyed it so much because it talked about what is in your control.

Shed Geek: 55:40

Right, someone reacts this way or does something. There's nothing you can do about that. You can only control the way you respond, and I think it's that way in sales a lot of times. You know if the customer says, well, that's too much money, rather than get just super defensive right away, you can control your response as opposed to arguing with them. You know that it is that value. Well, even though you're enthusiastic about that, you don't have to spend time arguing with them. I encourage you to read this book. It's really, really good. I love your thoughts. I love that you challenged the thought of what I've been putting out there on the podcast and I really I'm gonna go back and listen to this podcast more. I know because I want to break down your thought a little bit more. You might be onto something there.

James Wagner: 56:32

But within my own specialization, which is obviously as a dealer, we need something that I don't know, maybe a uniform association or something where dealers can get together, and I mean independent dealers, not builders and dealers I put that in a different category because their core business is building and the selling is almost a side thing, but I mean just pure dealers people that don't build, they don't help.

Shed Geek: 57:01

They can benefit from conversation without having to be so called up in the idea of competition.

James Wagner: 57:07

Right, that's right. And because if they get that mindset of competition with each other out of their heads, they'll better be able to open up and help each other out.

Shed Geek: 57:23

I just love one thing that you said when you mentioned, david, the fact that you guys communicate and talk as dealers. I know dealer networks that won't talk to each other or kind of see theirself as the enemy, and I'm thinking you're selling for the same company, let alone. You know the other competition, so I just or even other companies, it doesn't really matter.

James Wagner: 57:38

You know, the principles are the same. They sell what they sell because they believe in what they sell. I don't. I believe in what I sell, yeah, and but a lot of the techniques and things can be the same. We can still learn from each other.

Shed Geek: 57:51

I have not even began to breach the cusp of who, james, is the fact that you said that you play Kazoo. You got a purple heart hanging here in your office.

James Wagner: 58:05

That is not mine. Okay, Well it's you want to know the story behind that.

Shed Geek: 58:09

Yeah, tell it.

James Wagner: 58:13

It's a tough one. A friend gave me that in Alabama. He bought that at a yard sale for a quarter. I'm an Army officer. This was from a naval ensign. He gave it to me because he knew, even though I was Army and this guy was Navy, that I would respect him. If you read the citation, he received that purple heart for wounds Received resulting in his death December 7th 1941. Oh, pearl Harbor, and some yahoo sold it at yard sale for a quarter. And my son, who is now a naval officer, grew up with that and his first station was at Pearl Harbor and he made a beeline for the USS Oklahoma Memorial which is the ship that this engine served on and took pictures of it.

James Wagner: 59:13

So ever since I acquired that and well, somewhat after that Facebook came to be and I've been December 7th I would put a memorial to this naval ensign, Isaac Stern, and pictures of the purple heart, and in the back of the medal has his name inscribed on it. But my son took the pictures of that particular memorial in the post with his name on it. And you mentioned my helper, Beth, which she cannot possibly get enough kudos for the difference she's made to this business. But her father was there. There's a famous photograph that I think was on the cover of Time or Look, or something like that. It's her father showing it from his back. But then you know it was. He was 16 years old in that picture when he joined. I think it was 15 when he joined the Navy and 16 when the picture was taken. He lied about his age For years, didn't even want to get the benefits because he thought he would get in trouble because he lied.

Shed Geek: 1:00:24

He didn't realize that many young men back in that day lied, but yeah, he was there and says a lot that there was a many young men that lied to go to war to fight for this country, as opposed to what we have today I couldn't, I couldn't spend two more hours on this podcast and get enough good conversation in with you. We'll definitely have to have another conversation, whether I stop in person, whether we do something on zoom. I don't know if my podcast has done the due diligence today. Zoom, zoom what.

Shed Geek: 1:01:02

I'm sorry. I'll have to explain. I'll have to. I'll tell you all about this magic program. I don't think that it's gosh. Let me slow down.

Shed Geek: 1:01:18

It's hard to get to know a person in an hour. A lot of people say an hour. That's a long time to talk Not really For me. I don't not just me, but some of the guests. Whenever you're genuinely curious about what they're saying, an hour is not enough and I don't know if our program today did the due diligence to show everything about who James is.

Shed Geek: 1:01:39

In the short time that I've known you, I've grown a just a quick, very quick respect for the serious demeanor in which you can take in the process. But you're a joyous person to be around, like I'm. Just in the first hour that we talked, I so enjoyed talking to you. I mean, we were even in the RV talking about how you remind us of Dan and his dad or our father-in-law, and it was like you know how we enjoyed being around him, because we laugh whenever we're around him and I don't think that we did the due diligence today to show all of who you are well-rounded. So I want to have you back. I want you to know that we really enjoyed having you on today. I know that you're a man of faith. I appreciate you saying so many kind of things about the show. I promise I didn't pay him a dollar, guys to say any of those things.

Shed Geek: 1:02:32

Whenever you told me that you listen and you almost hate being interrupted, you're really focused on it. I mean there's no words that can be said. There's some things you do that's not for the money. There's some things you do because you're trying to find purpose in your life and whenever people tell you those things, sometimes there's those little tidbits that God reminds you hey, you're on the right path and you know the Bible says that he'll place a song in your heart. I used to always tell people that song's not meant for everybody to hear. Sometimes only you can hear the song that he's singing to you. And you got your own song, james, and I got my own song. And whenever you say things like that, it'll do more to bless me than you'll ever know, because when you're at the end of your rope, you're looking for purpose and somebody tells you hey, I enjoy listening to what you have to say in the program you put together. That's invaluable.

James Wagner: 1:03:24

I just will use my experiences to help others, and if that blesses others, that praise goes to God not to me, that's right. That's right. I haven't done anything.

Shed Geek: 1:03:35

You're blessed to be around, though you absolutely are. Is it okay if we close in prayer? Did you have any shoutouts, anything you wanted to say? Your heart clear before we go. I know the hour just flies by. Most people think oh no, it's going to have over and Deanna keeps telling me you're going to have to slow them down. You have to get back down to 50 minutes.

James Wagner: 1:03:55

I wish Beth would come in so that the folks introduced to her but that's who I didn't get the shout out Because I say once she joined me at this lot I'd become friends with her since seventh grade. We got to meet her late husband and became good friends and then he passed away. At least a year and a half, I guess a year and a half, probably pushing two years now.

James Wagner: 1:04:25

It's hard to believe. And he passed away and her kids moved her back here. I just told her, beth, I need some help on the lot. Just come help me. You set your eyes. Whatever you want to do, if you can come in the morning, that'd be great, because I'm not a morning person and that has been the best thing I've managed to do at this lot, both for me and for her. But she's been a tremendous asset here and it's so good. It just kind of reels me in sometimes when I'm doing something wrong.

Shed Geek: 1:05:03

We all need that and I've got my family that comes along with me when we're out traveling to help me do that. I enjoyed this way more than I knew I was going to. I want to know you more. Cherokee structure's got a good one Whenever they got James Wagner as a salesperson here for their property. We're just going to just pray real quick and, like you said, anything worth doing, worth praying about, that's right, that's right.

Shed Geek: 1:05:30

Lord, thank you for this day, thank you for the opportunity to meet James and Beth and just set with them here in discussion. Ask that you would bless them and their sales lot and their business and Cherokee structures as you move forward, as you'd watch over. I'm reminded, lord, today, to ask you to watch over our military men and women as they're out there. And it's so easy for us to forget that freedom isn't free and it's so easy for us to forget the sacrifices that others make as we go on about our daily business and get busy, but that there's someone standing on the line and there's somebody there and they're prepared to fight for us and for our freedom. So please watch over our service men and women, as you'd watch over everybody in the industry, everybody represented here, every company here listening, and as you'd bless James as he moves forward into 2024, you'd make it his best year yet, god, and we appreciate all that you do for us. We keep you first in all that we do. We ask all these things in Jesus' name, amen.