Parenting Collective

Big Feelings, Boundaries and Better Parenting - What No One Told Us

• Donna Moala

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Parenting can feel overwhelming, especially when you know the kind of parent you want to be, but at the moment, your reactions do not match.

In this powerful episode of the Parenting Collective Podcast, Donna Moala sits down with Connected Parenting founder and expert @GenMuir to unpack what’s really happening beneath challenging behaviour, for both kids and parents.

Together, they explore:

– Why even the most self-aware parents can become dysregulated and even loose their temper

– How your own childhood generational patterns shows up in parenting

– The difference between authoritarian vs authoritative parenting

– What to do when your child is melting down, hitting, or pushing boundaries

– How to stay calm, connected, and in control (even when it’s hard)

– Why connection before correction, is the key to raising resilient kids

Gen shares real-life parenting moments (including her infamous “fork throwing” story), practical tools you can actually use, and a refreshing, honest take, you don’t have to get it right all the time, 30% is enough.

If you have ever felt triggered, overwhelmed, or unsure how to respond to your child’s behaviour, this conversation will leave you feeling understood and equipped.

✨ Because it’s not about being a perfect parent, it’s about being a connected one.

Follow Gen Muir: 

Website: https://www.connectedparenting.com.au/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/genevieve-muir-31841733/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/connectedparentinggenmuir

Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/connectedparentingau/

  

Buy the book: Little People Big Feelings by Gen Muir: https://www.panmacmillan.com.au/9781761560743/

I would appreciate it greatly if you could please LIKE and FOLLOW this podcast and if you are not following me over on instagram, head over there for all of my top tips and advice around sleep and parenting @parentingcollective.au.  I also offer a free 15 minute phone chat to run through all your questions CLICK here to book your FREE 15 minute chat

Much Love 💞

Donna Moala 
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SPEAKER_00

Hello, hello, and welcome to this week's episode. Very excited to have Jen Muir. She is a parent educator and the founder of Connected Parenting. She is seen on Channel 7, Sunrise, most weeks talking about everything parenting and beyond. She calls herself a modern parent educator, but she very much all things about being parents in this uh day and age, in this new age. She's a parent of four boys, and sounds like she's got that completely under control. But she's an author of an amazing book called The Little People Big Feelings. Definitely go out and get that if you've got kiddos. She's also the creator of High Low Buffalo Cards, which is a card game at dinner tables or just conversation starters, which is amazing. She's also a host of Beyond the Chaos Podcast. It was so great to meet her in person when I went to Sydney for the 10 days to see Dr. Shafali and all the other amazing things work-wise that I did over there. Jen and I met in person, recorded the podcast in a studio there, which was wonderful to finally meet her. I did have Jen on about two or three years ago. Yes, so wonderful to catch up, so much to talk about, so much to talk about with boundaries and parenting in this new age, like I said. So we talked for so much and could have talked longer that I've split it into two parts. So this is part one. I hope you enjoy it as much as we did. And I'd love to hear your feedback. Have a great week. Speak to you soon. Hi Jen, and welcome to Parenting Collective.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00

I'm so excited. I know how I'm very, very grateful for your time because we have, we have chatted before, and I should have looked at, I think it was like 24. Yeah, it's a long time ago. So I was probably heavily in the trauma. I don't know if I was, but um, I hadn't even sort of started delving into the connected conscious parenting at all. So, you know, for me to find you back then and be like, oh, this is really interesting. Um, and now I understand it so much more. Yeah in lived experience, and like we were talking about, you have your four boys and they're going really well, which is great implementing this way of parenting, really. Um, so I'd love for you to sort of start by letting everyone know a little bit about you and the work you do and your passion around that and your boys and um yeah, just talking to that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02

So I'm Jen Muir, I'm a parent educator, author, uh, and podcaster, and I actually am a bit of an accidental parent educator. I was gonna ask that. Yeah, I um I actually came into my parenting with a really strong idea of the parent that I wanted to be, which was based on 30 years of work as a social worker where I knew that creating a secure attachment for kids was really, really important. But then I found myself in the reality of parenting uh two small children, finding it much harder to be that person in the moment than I had ever anticipated. So I think, like a lot of millennial parents, I knew what not to do. I knew that I didn't want to do some of the practices of the past, like smacking or timeouts, but I didn't really know what to do.

SPEAKER_00

Totally.

SPEAKER_02

It felt like there was a void. So I went on a bit of a mission to sort of work that out, and I wound up doing circle of security parenting and tuning into kids, working on my own stuff, but never with the goal of being a parent educator. Wow. Um, I actually wound up in a role as a social worker at the Marshall Hospital. Um, one of the things I had to do was the classes for parents who had just had their first baby or a subsequent baby, and it was like all of my worlds just mel merged, and I kind of went, This is what I'm meant to do. Purpose. Um and um parents were asking me where they could find out more and if I had a book, and so um yeah, like it all just sort of unraveled or unfolded really quickly from there. And I got into running connected parenting, founded that. Um how long ago was that? Gosh, eight years ago?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Well, there you go. Yeah, and it's new, but it's not new, isn't it? Yeah, it goes so quickly, and then you're like, I'm so busy, I'm doing all these amazing things, but it's you just one step after the other, isn't it, when you love something like that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I sort of think of myself a bit like an interpreter for research around attachment.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I try to, and what I tried to do in my book was to help parents to just really understand what really matters. Most modern parents actually have a pretty good idea, do you think I think of the parent they want to be?

SPEAKER_00

I I th yes, because I work with so many kids as well, uh, families one-on-one. I think you're exactly right. They have the knowledge, the implementation's hard.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I think, and where you were back how many years ago, it's the same, same but different, but a more crazy, busy.

SPEAKER_02

I think even without a knowledge of a particular parent intuition. Totally, totally. Parents do come in, especially these days, with a better understanding of what they want to be.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. They've heard the wording and they're like, I would love for my child to be securely attached, and you're like, right, okay. Yeah, where before we wouldn't have known those.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, totally. And then yet we find ourselves in those moments. We do. Um, unfortunately, you know, we parent with our mind and our body, you know, and so much of what um we experienced in the first five years is playing out in those relationships, and so um I work with parents in just getting an understanding of that.

SPEAKER_00

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And getting them to understand, isn't it? So when we're talking about that, and thanks for sharing, um, can you sort of so you've got four beautiful boys, and what are their ages again? Sixteen?

SPEAKER_02

They are nine, eleven, fourteen, and sixteen. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So you've got the beauty, yeah, a lovely. It's gorgeous, you know. Awesome ages. Yeah, they're beautiful ages. I know. And we had a quick talk, and I'm like, how's it going? You said fantastic, and I'm like, that's great. And again, that's talking about the knowledge behind, and you know, you're obviously I I always say that I've always been like a researcher in life. If something's not working, I will research it. I will like what's working, what hasn't worked, which it sounds a little bit like you've fallen into the same thing. And you're so passionate around it, yeah. And I'm just so passionate, and I say it's my purpose in life, other than being a mother, but it's like this lived experience, and then right, I need to be educated on that to teach other parents, which is wonderful that you've been able to do that. So, on reflection um with your four boys, and you had all of that information and knowledge in here, but like you're saying, it's like the nervous system, the amygdala going, oh, this toddler screaming at me. Can you remember where you started to feel oh um I know what needs to be done, but my body reactions not that's not doing what this they're not talking to one another. Was that like toddlhood? Because I didn't have any of those feelings until toddlehood for my second child. Because my first child, nothing to do with my parenting. I mean, you know, we were lovely parents and had a lovely life. She was just really easygoing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, uh, it depends on the kid we get 100%. Absolutely. Parenting depends on the child you have, your circumstances, how you were parented, and how you've made sense of that.

SPEAKER_01

Totally.

SPEAKER_02

For me, I can tell you exactly when I realised it was the hottest November day of 2011. I had a three-month-old baby and a two-year-old. I was desperate to get the baby to sleep. My baby had reflux, he never stopped crying. My two-year-old, I thought was on a fast truck to prison, but actually it was just a two-year-old. Totally on this particular day, finally the baby fell asleep in my arms. I said to my two-year-old, I'm just gonna go put the baby in bed. I will be two seconds and I'll be right back. He's a lovely pop. Um, absolutely, I would have done all the things. I went down there, transferred the baby into bed, turned around to put on the white noise machine, and almost manifesting out of the floor. There's my toddler, he's grabbing the sides of the cot, he looks at me directly in the eyes as he screams at the top of his lungs and shakes the bass neck.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, that's traumatic.

SPEAKER_02

It is traumatic. That is traumatic. Yes. However, it was the fact that in that moment, I can't even tell you. I know I screamed so loud that the neighbours would have heard it five houses down. Yeah. But I can't even tell you exactly what was said or because it was an out-of-body experience. And that in itself was frightening.

SPEAKER_00

Totally.

SPEAKER_02

And that in itself had me not so much the reaction and the repair, which I did.

SPEAKER_00

Repair, yeah. Talk about that rupture repair all the time.

SPEAKER_02

Later that night, sitting on the couch, thinking to myself, nothing could have prepared me for how hard it would be for the feeling of losing control that almost felt like a swamp beast came out of me or my mum's voice. Yeah. Oh, no. Um, and then I really questioned like, what why am I finding this harder than my mum did? Yep. Uh, is there something wrong with my child, and is there something wrong with my parenting? Sure. And that is the moment I went on a mission.

SPEAKER_00

Amazing. The researcher in you, like we talk about you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I did, and it was really just for me. Awesome. And it was really just for me to apply to my parenting, and then it turned out that when I started talking about it to other parents, they wanted to know more.

SPEAKER_00

Totally. And you're obviously such a beautiful, caring person, and that's why everyone wants to hear what you want to do, what you can do to help them, you know, so it has evolved. Um, but same, same but different for me. But I was thrown into it, and people listeners have have I've shared the story, is um I was a stay-at-home mum for 10-11 years, and that was challenging in itself, but I loved it and it was hard. But I as the kids got older, and my beautiful two-year-old who had a strong personality, I we were up for battles. Yeah, and I didn't know about any of this, Jen. Like I knew about positive parenting, I was like, you know, doing the things I knew at the time, because she's 18, and it really, really affected our relationship. So when she hit teens, and this is never to scare anybody because again, it's not everybody, um, when that sort of I talk about toddlers and teens and Maggie Dent, I went to Maggie, you I know you're very good friends with the gorgeous Maggie Dent. Um before I started having teens, we went to uh um a event of hers and she said toddlers and teens, same, same but different, just take 10 years off.

SPEAKER_02

100%.

SPEAKER_00

And I was like, that's funny. So I only had Aloise, he's the eldest, not quite a teen yet. And this was the compliant child. Yeah. I say compliant, she's an easygoing kid, you know. And um I never forget as she started to get into the teens, about 13, seriously, something happened and she had a tantrum on the floor. And I was like, my gosh, never I'm not kidding, that kid didn't have a tantrum, and so um you're dealing with so many changes all the time, but when they start getting hormonal and the you know, it's it's big. So I just often like there's always you know shame, not shame, but you know, guilt that I have to work on. But I did the best at the time.

SPEAKER_02

100%. And all of us have that. I have guilt about and I I've been learning um with my you know, my youngest children have a really different mum to the son got. Yeah. Um, and yet I think there are beautiful benefits that come for every part of the family.

SPEAKER_00

And do you boy do your boys ever like oh he gets away with you know the because the oldest is the you know practice really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02

I call him my first pancake.

SPEAKER_00

I know, it's so easy, isn't it? And they know it. And you've got to laugh about it, don't you?

SPEAKER_02

I do, but they also get, you know, they get um a lot of your energy. We we possibly over focus on our eldest, but um, they get a lot of that energy and enthusiasm, and they do all the firsts and they get a lot of focus, which is really cool. Yeah. Um there was a time not that long ago where my youngest um he threw a fork at my eldest across the table. So he was like six and he's a really big feeling kid. Yes. My eldest had been sort of picking on him, it was kind of coming, doesn't excuse violence. Oh, I you know, he threw the fork across the table.

SPEAKER_00

We know that, yes, totally.

SPEAKER_02

And um, and I, you know, I did exactly what I would do. Yeah, I qu swiftly moved right around the table, I grabbed his arms, I said, You can be mad, you can't throw a fork.

SPEAKER_00

That's right.

SPEAKER_02

That's right. Looked at me and he goes, Are you for real? 100%. And I said, Yeah, and he goes, You would have made me stand and think. So when I was first learning about this stuff, I read a book by Steve Bidoff who Yes, loved him too.

SPEAKER_00

He was there with Maggie that day. Yeah, he's a cool guy. They're amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Um but he wouldn't even recommend this now. So the strategy that I got, and this was 16 years ago, was that um when kids were not listening and you couldn't get them to comply and there's a safety, hitting, you get to stand and look at a wall. Yep, um, you stand with them so they're not left alone with their emotions, and then you ask them at the end of it, what did you do wrong? What would you do different? Right. And I thought that was an improvement, not smacking or timeout.

SPEAKER_00

Grabbing or like yeah, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02

And you know, and it works.

SPEAKER_00

And not leaving them.

SPEAKER_02

But as I evolved into it, I learned that actually we don't need to stand our kids against a wall or do something to our kids that we wouldn't do to another adult.

SPEAKER_00

Totally.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and that actually if you stay if you view kids as always doing the best they can, totally, and that it's a skill that needs to be taught. So my when my kid throws that fork, he's got to learn how to deal with the frustration of having an older brother that picks on him. And the only way I can teach that is actually by staying in connection with him and keeping that sort of shaming stuff so low that I've got the opportunity to go, I get that your brother's annoying. What could you do next time instead of throwing a fork? And now I've got an opportunity for him to learn. I know. But it also feels so much more powerful, like we're meant to lead our kids, but in that moment, there's no part of me that is there going, if you throw that fork, I'm gonna put you in the corner, which feels very powerless. I actually am in charge, I am leading confidently, and and everybody knows it, but I get it from the view of an eldest, and of course, we also need to give some empathy to an eldest child. Like, yeah, I totally do. I didn't know that then. I say it all the time, and and I say that all the time, and I go, We've been learning on you, and that's there's pros and cons.

SPEAKER_00

Totally. I say it all the time. Um, I was very honoured to interview my eldest, the 20-year-old, and um she's amazing that she's been so vulnerable to share her story with the mental health and all of that. But that's the conversation we were laughing, as she's like, now that you're doing the conscious connected parenting, I see how much better it is.

SPEAKER_02

Like I had this open conversation that wasn't scripted, and it was I was asking her view, and it was so it's so interesting, and uh, so many mums have like, oh gosh, I should ask my older child that because it's just a good conversation rather than not like it is what it is, and and the thing is, like you said, absolutely every child has a different parent and a different family, you know, and to that thinking even if you had all the knowledge to begin with, you don't because you are learning every single baby and child that you have one by one. You know, one of the things I think the mistake we make in parenting in general, and I work with parents of newborns all the time, they assume well I, as the parent, should know what to do when this baby cries.

SPEAKER_01

Totally.

SPEAKER_02

And I say to them, I thought that every time I had a subsequent baby, I had four boys, they looked identical at birth. And then I would assume I would assume, well, I know what to do, and then within two weeks, four weeks, six weeks, I'm like, no, I haven't met this person. And I will met this person with every stage. Totally. So you're getting to know that person. I don't call like I I know my business is called connected parenting. I don't think of what I do as conscious parenting, connected parenting, parenting. No, I don't have a name. I love connected though, because yeah. Connection is really important because without it we don't get anywhere. Yeah. Um essentially what we're really talking about, what we've known in the research since 1960, is that the parenting style that works best for kids is authoritarian.

SPEAKER_00

And authoritarian, sorry, yep.

SPEAKER_02

Um and so it's all of authority.

SPEAKER_00

So authoritarian authoritative. Authoritative. Authoritative, sorry. So I did this all the time. It's not authoritarian, everybody. It's authoritative. And I don't say I can't even say it properly. Authoritative. Yes. So they're so similar. So now that we've messed up that word, can you explain the difference between authoritarian and authoritative?

SPEAKER_02

So authorit authoritarian is high boundaries but low warmth, particularly in those moments of boundaries. That's how most of us were raised. So pretty room, smack, smack for you. Quiet, yep. Um, you know, if you don't turn that frown upside down, the window change and you'll get stuck like that.

SPEAKER_00

Shh. Um of that.

SPEAKER_02

And then, you know, what people assume authoritative parenting is, and you can call it gentle parenting, conscious parenting, connected parenting, I don't care what you call it. I don't I don't think the labels are not.

SPEAKER_00

No, I don't think the labels are I and I I struggle with that with conscious parenting because I don't feel that that's the late that's it. You know, I I get what you're trying to say.

SPEAKER_02

What we're really talking about is it is high limits as well and high structure, but also high warmth. So in that moment where you're saying, I can't let you throw a fork, you're also going, but I get why it might. I get why that might have happened. I know you're a good kid. Yeah. And so what we're trying to do is be kind and keep in relationship with our kids at the same time as holding those limits that make kids feel safe.

SPEAKER_01

Totally.

SPEAKER_02

Now that is um Dr. Vanessa Le Point calls at the parenting summit. So it is the hardest aspect of anything that we do in parenting.

SPEAKER_01

It's so hard.

SPEAKER_02

Um, because it can feel impossible not to slip down one of the sides of that. So where we fall down is that what comes out of our mouth, what wants to come out of my mouth is all structure. Yeah. So I have to really work on empathy.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_02

Um, for me, that's what I teach parents. It's 90% body language. It's actually not anything.

SPEAKER_00

Nervous system, I talk about that a lot too.

SPEAKER_02

And then um for other people, say my husband, he is all kind. He's all empathy.

SPEAKER_00

That's nice.

SPEAKER_02

That's beautiful. But I've seen him stand by trampoline for 45 minutes going, who wants to get off now?

SPEAKER_00

But that's you know why I love that? That's it's men are often the tougher ones.

SPEAKER_02

They're actually not.

SPEAKER_00

So I mean I I I'm generalising, maybe in my life, you know, like maybe when I work with couples, it's it's actually there's no gender to it. Well, that's so nice.

SPEAKER_02

What we're coming off is often how we were parented and how we've made sense of that. So actually, many people that were parented in a way that well, if it was abusive, yeah, or if um if it was so firm that it felt scary, they are often our more soft parents. Oh, yeah. If they're parenting in a really kind of more soft or they don't have that firmness because they're trying so hard not to do which their parents were.

SPEAKER_00

Because we always try and do better, aren't we?

SPEAKER_02

So for them it's about lifting up the firmness and getting really comfortable with the discomfort of being really clear with those limits. And for like pet parents like me, where the harder bit was the empathy or sitting in sadness, I have to really work on that. And I have to continue to work on it.

SPEAKER_00

Me too, every day. So when people talk to me, I'm I'm like, uh my muscle has to be built on this every day, every day's different. Like I was saying, um I won't name names in my family, but you know, we have weeks that are fantastic, you know, and we're in a season of everyone's really happy and we've done so much work, and I call it my beautiful chaos. But situations were happening, and I was on the plane with uh my friend Lauren, who is all about conscious living, that's her business, and um I was like about one of the kids, and she was and I'm like, you know, I think I've got it, and I've got the tools, but it's we're humans. We're humans, and so we've got to humanize everything is like you've got emotions, you're not gonna get it right all the time. I don't I think it was Maggie Dent too who was saying if you get it 30% of the time, you're winning. 30%, 100%, 30%. I was like, 30, I'm winning. Because if you think 70, I'm gonna do my maths then, 70% is messing up repair, like talk about rupture and repair. Vanessa Le Pointe talks about that. But you know, we're always learning, aren't we? And and the kids are all different, and having the three same gender, I was the same. Is um you'd think there'd be similarities, but they can be so opposite, it's crazy. Do you have that? Yeah, absolutely. The boys are like so different. Absolutely. Um so the other thing talking about all of this too, because I really want people to hear this and really want to hear it, not that oh gosh, airy fairy parenting. It's not, it's actually the harder way, it like you said, to be able to control yourself, to bite your tongue in those emotions when he's throwing a knife or a fork, you know? Do you know what I mean? Like it's so easy to go, what are you doing? Because that's our reaction, isn't it? Because to talk about the the amygdala and it's that fight-flight response for us, and um that's out of body. That's when you talk about the outer body, is your fight-flight is like, oh my gosh, there is a lion about to eat my child. So you don't have that time to react. So you're we're working on the muscle to pause, react, and teach and model. So that's the whole thing without it being labelled, is like I think connected's great because especially as the teens get older, they want the independence that's really normal, trying to stay connected rather than correcting all the time. Because sometimes they might be grumpy, you can take that um on personally, but you've just got to try and find that connection. It's not like what can I get for you and whatever. It's just like just simple things. I'm here for you if you need, you know, that's a really big thing, toddlers to teens. So the other thing that I talk about with my parents all the time, and from my newborns to 10-year-olds, is the same conversations that we're having is this nervous system regulation. So, again, I don't want it to sound all scientific, but it's true. You know, when I talk to mums that are trying to so with my um sleep, that I support them, there is no cried out, there is no leaving, there is regulation for the parent, I support them for that, and then their babies go, oh, and then they get the opportunity to be able to learn how to sleep in a very big nutshell. So I use all of these words with even newborn parents, and they're like, oh my gosh, that's amazing, because I explain it. But the thing is, is our humanness, our human bodies have not changed, but the world has. So, you know, um, even five years ago. So, what I say to my parents with when I work with toddlers is that we're busier, the world's expensive, or where we live is expensive. You either choose to go back to a career because you want to, or we have to. Kids don't care about that. They want you to live on a farm and bake cookies and just be there for them. So it's all about that regulation. So, what you're talking about and and and stuff that wanting to make it clear, it's not going to be easy all the time, but when those feelings come up, like when your child um rocked that bassinet, is like having the tools, yeah. And this is what you're Talking about is having these tools to understand this is happening.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think it's having the tools to catch yourself on the climb and therefore catch your child on the climb.

SPEAKER_00

That's right.

SPEAKER_02

So what I like to sort of talk about in terms of how it looks for a child and a parent is that kids climb up through um dysregulation into dysregulation in actually lots of ten.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And our real opportunity to catch a kid on the climb and to do the stuff that you see on social media, so name emotions and catch yourself and say, I can see you're having a hard time. Um use uh humour or humour's always a icebreaker is immediately right. Our only opportunity to do that is I I sort of talk about it if we're going up in lots of ten, is between about naught and four.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Once our child hits about a five out of ten, so this is a young child who's standing on the table, you've said get down, they're looking at you like mate, me, or that's a kid that's hitting their sibling, or are having a complete meltdown, and we're sort of five and up by ten, if a kid is hitting, sure, hurting, throwing things like really, really completely lost it, DEF CON four melting. Yeah, that's right. Um, we're doing different things. So the way that parents can get a really good understanding of how to catch kids lower, because the way in which we're raised, we are marinated in a society that when um when a mum has a baby and we s and she's had a traumatic birth, we say, at least you have a healthy baby. Um, if a child falls over in the park, we say, dust it off, up you get, because we're not comfortable with certain emotions.

SPEAKER_00

Marinating, as you said, yes.

SPEAKER_02

And really what we're trying to do, the biggest thing that helps us with our parenting is having a sense of meta-feeling. So meta-feeling is how you feel about feelings. So we've got lots of different feelings, we're usually more comfortable with some than others. By 11 months of age, as a baby, you learnt to predict which emotions in your primary caregivers they preferred and which emotions they didn't like as much, and you'd already started to tailor your behaviour by 11 months. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

I would say even more, uh sometimes, just a little bit, because they know what's going on.

SPEAKER_02

By five, your attachment style or how you feel about feelings is in there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02

And it's really that system that we're dealing with when our kid has the hand on the cupboard door in the kitchen and they're like, I'm just gonna have a biscuit, and I don't care if you say no, and we're there having to set a boundary, it will be how we feel about defiance or sadness or frustration as a parent, how that makes you feel or how our parents felt about that makes you feel 100%. Yeah, so all of that is kind of coming up in the moment. So if we can catch our kids lower down, so for example, much before the kid is standing on the table or throwing a fork, like my son, yeah, there are low-level signs, and I always think about it's through the transitions in our in our everyday. So it might be that I serve dinner every night, and at least one of my kids is going to say, I hate this dinner. Totally. Now, you don't have to respond to that every time. Like 30% of the time, 30% of the time, we notice, uh, this kid has come home, he hasn't picked up the shoes that I've asked him to. He's picking on his brother non-stop. He's just being really annoying. And I want you to tune into that word annoying because when kids are annoying us, it's a sign that's climbing to dysregulation.

SPEAKER_00

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

There's something happening that makes it annoying, not maybe not naughty, not bad, but just annoying. You're going, oh, that's a bit frustrating, that doesn't feel right, I'm on edge. As parents, we start to feel like we're walking on eggshells, and then that kid says, I hate this dinner.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

We have this opportunity just 30% of the time. And I always say, imagine that instead of sitting opposite that child and saying, like, we could bribe, we could beg, we could threaten, we could say, Well, take it or leave it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But what if 30% of the time we walk around the table, we put our arm around that child, and we say, You're just not feeling it about this dinner, or you're really disappointed about dinner. Yeah, it's usually not about dinner, it's about every time you that in that child's day. If that child's four, they've had their um something snatched off them in the sand pit that day, they're processing jealousy around a sibling, um, they're they've got separation from us and learning, and there's just dysregulation in their body, they've had a long day at school where they've had to listen, and now there's a pea in their dinner, yeah. Right? And if we can just every now and then let them know that's part about the pee, you don't have to give them a different dinner. No, it doesn't have to add to our workload. It can feel like the scariest thing to do in parenting.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, and I still feel that.

SPEAKER_02

And the reason that that low-level stuff matters is that once our kid hits a five, if my like my kid throwing the fork, it is much harder to be the parent you want to be by then.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

The meltdown is already on its way, yeah, and we're really just strapping in.

SPEAKER_00

Totally. Right?

SPEAKER_02

And so there's what we do when our kids are really losing it, which I think you want to talk about today. Totally. And there's some different stuff we've got to do there. But there's what we can do in the build. Love it. And often if we can catch our kids on that climb, we step in and we go, You're a really good kid. You don't want to be this kid making dinner hard, you don't want to be not wanting to get into or out of the bar, or struggling to go off to school today, or struggling with homework, or whatever it is our kids are struggling with. We name that and suddenly they're not alone in that problem. And it lowers the intensity in the build. It does. They are less likely to have a meltdown, they are less likely to be difficult or not listening, and and it makes a huge difference. It does. Unfortunately and fortunately, kids are also meant to push up into the top. Totally. And there's different stuff we're going to talk about.

SPEAKER_00

And we can't wait to delve into that. But I want to talk about the build-up to that too, because again, you know, I'm talking with parents one-on-one about this, and even just little kids, and something happened last night with a parent, and I just got a message on the way here, and it was about what we're talking about. And the kiddo's only 19 months. Big, high, sensitive, emotional kiddo. And I've been helping her with all of this indirectly, not indirectly, actually, directly. And so last yesterday we talked about it again because he was struggling to go to bed, and I said, just change this, and blah blah blah. The build-up before he slept through last night. And you know what? And I was like, that's it's not just one thing, it's not just about the sleep, it's not about food, it's not about it's all of this, and it's our role. I don't want to say job because the role of is we're it's the most important role of our life is parenting in this age. Well, when they're at home, you know, we don't own them, they're not ours. It's our job and our role to create beautiful, nurturing, confident, resilient adults to be able to fly out of the nest. We don't want them to fly out of the nest. I'm getting way too close to that. But that's our job and our role, isn't it? So it's constant. You know, when you've got four, it's different kids. And people go, Oh gosh, really? Is that what you do? I'm telling you it works.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And it's just that little bit, you know what that also comes down to in that moment is you're hearing them rather than telling them off.

SPEAKER_02

Well, the reason that I do what I do more than any other reason is it's made everything easier.

SPEAKER_00

I know.

SPEAKER_02

It's made everything easier. That's what I asked the question.

SPEAKER_00

And that's what I said. For me, I was thrown into it in a pretty traumatic way, and it is what it is, you know. I'm I'm older, my kids are older, and I didn't have the tools, but I have used the tools. It's a constant muscle you've got to build, constant.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it's never too late. Never too late. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So even what what I was going to say was that even though we say five is really imperative, it so is, but m our changing in our family had to be in their high teens, teens, and it's still happening.

SPEAKER_02

So I often say to parents now, imagine if you got a call from your parent right now, today, and they said, Hey, I've been really reflecting on some of the things I did and said in when I was raising you, and I that might not have felt good for you, and I'm really sorry. Imagine how that might feel. And often when you say that to a grown-up, they go, Oh, well. That would still have a big impact on me now. As soon as you said that, um, it is never too late. Never too late.

SPEAKER_00

And I and that was actually something that I put in here, actually, it is never too late because I talk to parents with younger kids and they're like, I've missed the window. No way, never. And we still are like I think we're always learning to the day where we're still thinking about our parents now before seven. You know, totally. So it never goes. And and like I said, it's never guilt, shame, blame of our parents. It's the understanding they did the best they could at their time. I always talk about generational patterns, um, and that's the stuff that I sort of delve in a lot too, just of the understanding. It's not like a a diagnosis or blame, it's like, oh that's why that happens when I'm dysregulated. This is why I do that, because that's what my dad did, and I didn't want to do that. Like, there's so much in that internal, which you don't want to overcomplicate, but if we understand it, then it's easier to implement, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02

Like 100%. I mean, if your if your mum was raised so that when she was sad, she was sent to her room.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_02

And then she raised you so that when you were sad or you showed sadness, whether that's low-level whinging, whining, or big level sadness, you were told cut it out. We don't do that in this family. When your child in front of you is sad, yeah, your system, without your permission, will go into fight, flight, or freeze because your system is saying this emotion is not safe. I learned that at 11 months, I learned that at five, I've learned that my whole life. We are in an unsafe situation. It's going to send your system into fight, flight, or freeze, and then you don't really have control over what happens unless you're aware that you're being hijacked and then you've got an opportunity to just grab that and go, what I do, I go, I don't need to fix this or solve this. I need to let my kid know I get it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it's not easy, like we keep saying, is it? Like you live and breathe this and you've done it for a long time, and I'm sure still with the four kids, you have to have a bit of a pause sometimes and think, ooh, how are they gonna respond to it?

SPEAKER_02

And look, sometimes I pause and I say nothing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02

My teenager flipped out at me the other night over a breadboard, and and he was quite rude. Yeah, and I just sort of took a pause. Yeah, I kind of had a little chuckle to myself and thought that felt rude.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And then about 10 minutes later, I said, That hurt my feelings.

SPEAKER_00

That was my next question. What did you say? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and he went, Oh, I'm sorry, like this, you thought it was right, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00

And and so you just continue it totally and and absolutely and I that was going to actually actually be my question too, is um people it's not letting them get away with it. So I sort of say to people, be like, let it bounce off like Teflon. So you paused, it it's it did, you know, hurt a little bit, but you don't let it go.

SPEAKER_02

You give it a little bit of time and I told him in that scenario, I would tell um I would let him know as a 16-year-old, yes, that wasn't great.

SPEAKER_00

You gave it a bit of time, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02

Like because he's there's no point in saying in the moment, he's really worked up, yeah. Um, and it's the same with if I have to still parent him around boundaries, I have to go in and say, I need to get your phone out of your room. He is unlikely to say thank you for keeping me safe. Absolutely. He's gonna say, Um this sucks, you're the only mum that does this, I don't need help with this. That's right. And he might throw his phone on the floor.

SPEAKER_00

He absolutely could.

SPEAKER_02

I'm not gonna respond to that in that moment. I'm just gonna go, thanks, I'm gonna dock that so that it's safe. Yep. But I will go back the next day and say, hey, I've been thinking about how phone handover goes. It's not working great for me. How's it working for you? Perfect. And often he's gonna say, It's not great for me either.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And then he might come up with a solution like, what if I set a timer and I dock it myself?

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. Giving him the all the autonomy, and that's why I do like the word connected because you are for me, watching what you do and what you say, you're still having that connection when it's tough.

SPEAKER_02

I think you're holding the sense of the good kid, yeah. Um, and the good parents.

SPEAKER_00

That's right. And both are really important. And often you flounder with that, I think, don't you? Like, what did I say? Right. And also not being frightened of that behaviour. That's where I was fearful of like I need to fix it.

SPEAKER_02

There's a lot of fear in parenting and trying to kind of catch that when fear's at the driver's seat. That fear comes from love. When when we go into flight, flight, or freeze, it's often because something we care deeply about has been threatened. So if my child's behaving badly and I really want to do a good job and raise a good kid, what's being threatened is not just my job at parenting, but my child's future. Totally. And so it's catching that enough so that yes, we can teach, and I don't think you need a script for how you teach. No, I think it's catching that and talking about what went wrong and what we could do different, like what I talked about at the wall, only we don't need the wall. Yeah. And we do it side by side in the car the next day or at another time, or we sit down with a pen and paper, or we have a family meeting.

SPEAKER_00

That's all really important, and yeah, we don't need a script, but I do really believe that the wordings are correct, like using the I, like you said, that really like instead of going you shouldn't have done that or whatever, it's like that really hurt me. So it's like a reflective of um if like a teenager said something rather than you know, I don't like that, don't do that again. You're saying that really hurt me, buddy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I try not to get caught up in words, and I try not to get parents caught up in words. I do give scripts for parents of young kids, like if a child is hitting, I give them the script, I won't let you hit. Yeah, the reason I give that script is because it actually gets the parent physically in the mind frame they need to be in. It is your job to stop the hit. Totally. So we don't want to sit in a passive state across the room saying, Don't you hit. If you hit, I'll have to do something about it.

SPEAKER_01

Totally.

SPEAKER_02

You know, I'll have you know, that's all very powerless. Yeah, if a kid is hitting, they are out of control and they need our help. Yes. And so I use the words in the scripts, like in my book, I won't let you hit because it helps parents learn how to stop the hit and be the boundary. Yeah, having said that, I think once you get really good at it, you might say nothing at all. You might go, uh-uh, or that's not happening. And they know that it's what you do, it's how you step in and support your kids. Yeah, and it's your confidence to do all that with kindness because it's a good kid having a hard time that makes the difference.

SPEAKER_00

That's the biggest thing. It's not a bad kid. Yeah. And that's the thing, is that authoritative, have you got it right? It's authoritative, it's not it's not authoritarian, but it's the authority and the respect that you're that that is growing within your family, that you're the boss still, but in a calm, kind, connected way.

SPEAKER_02

Well, yeah, the idea is whenever whenever possible we let our kids lead and whenever necessary we take charge. That's right. But kids desperately want us to take charge when they are dysregulated, when they're no longer growing well. Yes. And particularly when kids are hitting or hurting or breaking a family rule or damaging our environment. Definitely time. Desperately, desperately want help to stop.

SPEAKER_00

So if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to leave me a rating and review. I love reading all of your messages. So shoot me a DM over on Instagram. It is parentingcollective.au. I also offer a free 15 minute no obligation phone chat. If you'd like to book one, head over to my website, www.parentingcollective.com.au, and request one there. So try to remember to be kind to yourself and always know you're doing the best you can every day, no matter what your day is looking like. Until next time, much love.

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Donna Moala

Host