Human Resource Development Masterclass
Human Resource Development Masterclass
HRD & Generational Changes in the Workforce
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In this eighth episode of Season 4, guests Dr. Katherine Jeffery (KJ Consulting), Dr. Malaika Edwards (University of Houston), and Dr. Marie-Line Germain (Western Carolina University) discuss the relationship between HRD and Generational Changes in the Workforce, including:
- What is meant by the term Generations?
- How do Generations differ, and how has our understanding of those differences changed in recent years?
- How are differences between Generations impacting organizations and the workforce?
- What are the implications for HRD practice – the work it does, where it works, how it works, who is involved, etc?
- What are the implications for how people are prepared for careers in HRD?
- What are the implications for HRD research and, specifically, what research is needed into HRD & Generations?
- and much more.
For full details on the HRD Masterclass series, visit hrdmasterclass.com, and for the bios of the guest scholars visit allbypodcast.com/generations.
For more information on the Academy of Human Resource Development, visit ahrd.org - by being a member of AHRD, you can access bonus materials from podcast episodes.
This episode is sponsored by the Board of the Academy of Human Resource Development, which encourages you to register for their 31st International Research Conference in the Americas in Arlington, VA, February 21-24, 2024. For full details, visit https://www.ahrd.org/.
Ultimately, HRD Education Schroe covers the different aspects of managing a multi-generational workforce in order to really foster a positive work environment because that's the goal.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to Human Resource Development Masterclass, the podcast series from the Academy of Human Resource Development, the organization that leads HRD through research. I'm your host, Darren Short, and here in our fourth season, we're exploring the relationship between HRD and trends in society and organizations with the help of leading authors, researchers and scholars. Today our focus is the relationship between HRD and generational changes in the workforce. And my guests are Dr. Catherine Jeffery of KJ Consulting, Dr. Melica Edwards of the University of Houston, and Dr. Marilyn Germain of Western Carolina University, all of whom joined me for a conversation recorded in March of 2023. Our episode today is structured into two parts. In the first we look at generations and generational changes and how they impact organizations and the workforce. Then in the second, we explore the implications for HRD practice, research, and education. You can find out all about the questions explored in the episode, the three guest scholars, and also the episode sponsors by visiting allbypodcast.com forward slash generations. Today's episode is sponsored by the Board of the Academy of Human Resource Development, which encourages you to attend the 31st Annual Research Conference in the Americas, being held in Arlington, Virginia from February 21st to 24th, 2024. It's the ideal opportunity to meet leading scholars, practitioners, and rising stars, including many of the guests in this podcast series, as they report their cutting-edge research. The event is perfect for learning and networking, and AHRD is an inclusive organization that invites all of those who are interested in the field, no matter where they are on their scholarly journey. Mark your calendar for 2024 in Arlington. We look forward to seeing you there. For further details, visit the AHRD homepage at ahrd.org. Right, let's dive into the episode. So, welcome to our episode on generational changes in the workforce and HRD. Let's start by meeting today's three guests. And first I'd like to welcome Dr. Catherine Jeffrey, who is a generational strategist and business consultant. Catherine's firm specializes in developing business strategies that help organizations navigate generational complexities as five generations work side by side in the workforce. Catherine has spent over 20 years studying human behavior and working with the millennial generation. As a consultant, she's worked with leading global companies across a wide range of industries, helping them innovate and transform culture and develop strong cohesive teams. So welcome, Catherine.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_03And my second guest for the episode is Dr. Malaika Edwards, assistant professor in the Department of Human Development and Consumer Sciences at the University of Houston, where she teaches HRD courses at the undergraduate and graduate level. Malaika's scholarly interests include workplace aging, multi-generational workplaces, retirement planning, and organizational business continuity. Prior to her academic career, Malaika worked in various human resource roles, managing the HR function across different sectors. And she's also a business writer, and she authors HR columns for Caribbean Media House. Welcome, Melaika.
SPEAKER_01Hi Darren, thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to our conversation.
SPEAKER_03My third guest for the episode is Dr. Marilyn Germain, who is Professor of Human Resources and Leadership at Western Carolina University. Marilyn is the author of three books, and she's published numerous research articles in journals and presented at international conferences. Her research and consulting focuses on dysfunctional behaviors and psychosocial risks in the workplace. She holds several leadership roles at research and professional associations, is a Fulbright recipient, and is the founder of the podcast show Dear Human Resources. Welcome, Mary Lynn.
SPEAKER_02Happy to be here there.
SPEAKER_03Over the next hour or so, we're going to talk about generations and generational changes and implications for organizations and individuals and then implications for HRD. And before diving into those details, it felt a good place to start our conversation by exploring the term generations and how the three of you have worked on issues related to generations and changes in generations. So, Catherine, I wondered if you'd be willing to get the ball rolling for us on that.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. When I think about, you know, what a generation is, I kind of talk to people about how it's it's you know, it started out as kind of this 20-year age span. And I think that's shrinking over time. And I think we're going to keep seeing that get consistently smaller because our world is changing so rapidly. And then I think the boundaries of those generations are set up by those collective memories or those formative experiences that we share, you know, during those years where we're coming of age. And I think it shapes our values, it shapes our expectations, it shapes the way we communicate. Um, and yeah, that's how I kind of at the most basic level think about the generations and the way I interact around it is um, well, it started when I first um I was teaching leadership development for 10 years at a university. And this is when millennials were in college, and every year I would ask them, like, what's the best form of leadership? And I'd give them three choices authoritative, democratic, or laissez-faire. And one year they were all like, laissez-faire leadership is the best way to lead. And I was like, really? Like, you all think that's the best? And um, so I ended up doing my dissertation on millennials and their view of leadership because as a Gen Xer, I was like, that is not at all how I would view that, view effective leadership. And um, so then I started to realize like, this is a really big topic, like people want to do this better. And so I moved out of higher ed and into the corporate space and now do a lot around um, I do workshops and I speak and I just really try to create strategies for companies to help them move forward um so that they can start building more bridges instead of kind of creating these huge divides that are happening literally around the world. Um, as soon as you step across that generational divide, you know, people aren't always sure what to do or how to handle things.
SPEAKER_03So that's interesting, Catherine. You uh when you mentioned the story about all the hands going up on Laissez-Faire, I I think I actually physically pushed my chair backwards in like is it that I had a sort of like physical reaction to people giving that response. It really is interesting. I can see how that how that drove you with an interest in or a passion behind this. That's fascinating. So, Malaika, how does that compare to the way you view generations or the way that you've worked on generational topics?
SPEAKER_01So thanks, Darren. My work on generational topics spans two areas. So I look at learning strategies, but I specifically look at learning strategies for baby boomers in our workplace. And baby boomers are some would say the second oldest generation in our organization. So I look at things like how baby boomers can navigate learning in this new online space, because it's not typically what they would have been accustomed to when they first started learning or first started going to school. Initially, baby boomers were going to school within traditional brick and mortar classrooms, and now everything is so heavily focused on online learning. So I look at things like effective teaching strategies so that in the organization, HR practitioners, trainers can know what are the effective strategies that can be used for this particular generational cohort so that we can facilitate learning and facilitate success. I look at things like the teaching strategies and what are the effective strategies that should be used with baby boomers, which may of course be different from the strategies that we use with millennials or with persons who are Gen X or Gen Y. I also look at things, as I mentioned, like business continuity, and I look at retirement and how it is that baby boomers navigate retirement, how we navigate retirement from an organizational and individual perspective. So I look at baby boomers, what happens when they leave the workplace. My work looks at post-retirement, the impact on organizations, and just what happens when this generational cohort is preparing for organizational exit, how we as HR professionals, HR practitioners, help them with the exit, and how we help the workplace to manage this exit so that business continuity is not affected. So it's a little different from Catherine. Catherine started from the classroom setting and looking at generational cohorts in a classroom. I started my work looking at generational cohorts in the workplace, and that has somewhat, I think we kind of have like overlapping rules, but it's somewhat similar where the generational issues are concerned.
SPEAKER_03Marilyn, we've heard a couple of examples there of what the term generations means to somebody and how they work on it. How does that compare with your own experiences?
SPEAKER_02So for me, the term generations refers to groups of people born within a particular time frame who share common characteristics and experiences. So the concept of generation is often used to understand and describe differences in attitudes, in values, in behaviors within a particular society. So the concept of generation is used in a variety of fields to understand how different age groups think, but also feel uh and of course behave, and how to most effectively communicate and interact with them. And from a HRD perspective, researchers and practitioners in HRD, we have been studying how different generations respond to different things, right? Um, of course, outside HRD, I can think of advertising. You know, generations are uh we we are interested in different generations to understand a variety of things, you know, how people use technology, how they view social or even political issues, and also the challenges and the opportunities that arise when uh different generations interact in the workplace. So this is where I uh, you know, from the angle from which I look at generations. And since you've asked specifically about my research, I have written about how generational differences are turning the traditional mentoring relationship on its head. And so we call that reverse mentoring. It's a relationship in which the junior employee is the mentor rather than the protege.
SPEAKER_03It's interesting listening to the the way that you've each described generations and the work you've done you've done. And I suppose it takes me to a question of uh how do you see generations differing? So however we define generations, there's presumably uh key ways in which one generation differs from others. I think Kathy, you met that you Katherine mentioned a good example of how they view leadership, for example. And Laika talked a bit about how how they've learned, how they learn best. Um so picking up on what you were just talking about there, Marilyn, would you be willing to talk through what you see as the main differences between generations and perhaps how that how our understanding of those differences has has changed over time?
SPEAKER_02I'd be happy to. You know, generations tend to differ in terms of values, in terms of attitudes, in terms of behaviors, which are uh shaped by uh our you know the historical events, but also societal trends uh and technological advancements that occur during people's formative years. I think that was Catherine who mentioned that earlier. Uh so for example, baby boomers who were born between 1946, roughly, and 1964, they tend to value hard work and respect for authority and financial security. But in contrast, millennials who were born between 81 and 96 tend to value diversity, flexibility, and work-life balance. We also believe that the experiences of different generations are shaped by factors such as uh race, uh class, gender, sexual orientation, and that these factors kind of intersect, if you will, to create unique experiences. Now, when we talk about generational differences, we tend to think of the differences and the divides between generations. In fact, your question asked me, you know, what are the differences? Interestingly, I think research has shown that the gap between generations can be smaller than previously thought, and that individuals within a generation can be just as diverse as those across generations. In addition to that, research has shown that um while generations may have specific characteristics, they are not fixed and they may change over time, which I think is absolutely fascinating. So we've seen research shift towards uh exploring the similarities and overlaps between generations rather than focusing solely on the differences. Darren, you've asked about recent years, right? The changes in recent years. So I should, I guess, I guess I should mention COVID-19. The the pandemic has uh accelerated some changes in the world and uh has brought about the need for new ways of understanding the impact of the pandemic on different generations. So, for instance, uh COVID-19 has highlighted the need for intergenerational collaboration. And it has also brought attention to the disparities and the inequalities that exist among different generations, particularly those related to technology access and uh digital literacy.
SPEAKER_01So, although there are differences across generations, the research also shows us that the differences are not as vast as we initially thought, and that even within generations, we have differences, or some persons who are bordering on different generations, like you can have just like a one-year or two-year difference, that they align more with different generations than with characteristics within their own generational cohort. That said, though, there are some distinct differences that I would want to highlight, particularly for us as HR practitioners. So I look at things like communication, and especially now with the whole advent of social media, there's a whole difference in terms of how it is that persons communicate in the workforce. So, Gen X, for instance, we find that those persons may prefer to communicate via email, whereas our Gen Z may be more interested in things like text messaging. I look at things like location and not just physical location in terms of working in office or offside, but just what the location looks like within the office. So I find that some Gen Z may prefer a collaborative workspace. They want to work together, they want to be in an environment where we can all huddle around a computer, huddle around a desk, and work and work on projects. Whereas our older workers or baby boomers, they might want a corner office. So there are those kind of things that are different because they see that as maybe prestige and authority. And then I also look at differences where things like career path and progression is concerned, because we notice across generations that our baby boomer generation tended or tends to have a more linear career path, probably working with one organization or two organizations at most during their career. And we find that our younger employees tend to have more experience working with other organizations. The younger generations take a non-linear approach, so they go and work with different organizations and build networks. So we do see differences in that regard. I want to just highlight, though, that in terms of how we understand these differences, I think one of the two of the key things that we recognize is that the differences is not one size fits all. So what we do for one generation, we don't do that necessarily for other generations. As HR, we have to be flexible because there are differences. And then there are shifting, there are shifting needs amongst different generations. And I guess that kind of a lies with one size. So the need that one generation will have, and I guess we can discuss further what those needs are, but the needs that the generations have will differ. So our understanding of differences has changed in recent years. It's not so much, oh, we have employees in the workforce, we now have a multi-generational workforce. There are differences within generations, across generations, and as HR, we have to be mindful of that.
SPEAKER_00When I think about the generations, I often think about them as different cultures, right? I kind of frame it for people from that perspective. Because when I have this conversation, I like for people to think about it as kind of a filter or a framework that we're looking for that helps us understand how our world has changed over time, right? Therefore, people and the things they value have also changed. And so sometimes I think it's helpful for people to go, okay, if I was going to a country or culture that I've never been to before, and you know, I didn't know what the cultural norms were or the lake, I didn't know the language or even the food they eat, right? Like I before I entered that country or culture, I would want to learn about it. I wouldn't want to ask questions. I might want to talk to somebody who's been there. I might want to learn some of those key words. And so if we start to take that same approach across the generational divide, and we start to go, oh, you grew up in the time that was very different than mine. Therefore, the way you view the world and the way you view the world of work is very different than me. And if we start then asking each other questions and being curious about each other instead of, because what happens right now, right? We point fingers, we make that other generation bad, we make them wrong, and and we're we make our differences a negative thing rather than making those differences, like, wow, this is a great strength. And how can we learn from each other and become as innovative as we possibly can because we have this multi-generational team? Right. There's even research out there that has found that teams with only a 10-year age span, so that's one generation seated around the table, right? They will meet or exceed expectations 35% of the time. Now you expand that from 10 years of age to 25 years of age or more, those teams will meet or exceed expectations 73% of the time.
SPEAKER_03So, Catherine, you've as a consultant, you've been working with organizations around this. What does this actually mean in practice for organizations and the and the workforce that's in those organizations?
SPEAKER_00I mean, there's so many things that jump to mind. Um, you know, one is just Malaika mentioned communication, right? Um, you know, one thing I talk about all the time with organizations is, you know, for millennials and Gen Z, uh, emails have become a place where you document important information, right? Where they'll, you know, it's not a place to have a conversation. Um, you know, give them Slack, give them Teams, but don't make them have a back and forth over email. And you know, for a boomer, like, you know, a lot of millennials will say, Yeah, my boomer boss sent me an email and it's a book, you know, and then they threw out, you know, those acronyms TLDR, which means too long didn't read, right? And then the boomers going, you didn't read my email? Like I got up early on a Saturday to make sure you got the full context, so you're not even reading it. Right, and then Gen X emails, bullet points, you know, here's what you gotta do, go get it done. And millennials and Zers are like, My Gen X boss is really bossy, like they just tell me what to do, they don't even say hello in the body of the email, and sometimes they just tell me what to do in the subject line, right? And so just around emails, there can be a lot of tension. And then, you know, often millennials will wait to respond to an email because they um they want to get all the right information before they respond. And for an X ra or a boomer, like when they send an email, the way we learned to use emails, it's kind of like we're spinning a plate. And Darren, if I send you an email, that means I've tossed you the plate and I got to know you caught the plate, right? And if I never know that you've actually caught the plate, then I'm still spinning it. And so I always let the millennials and Zers know, like, I know, you know, for you, that email's in your inbox and you see it, but for an X or in a boomer, it can mean the world. Because, you know, just to say, I got it, I'm on it, I'll have it to you by Monday, you know, because if they don't hear from you, they start creating this negative narrative of, hmm, I bet they're not really a team player, or maybe they don't really care about this project we're working on, right? Because they kind of expect that immediate response. Even something that throws people all the time now that we're getting more and more Gen Zers. Um, you know, a lot of us use dot, dot, dot or the ellipsis in an email or a text message. And for Xers and Boomers, that's kind of just like a pause, like yada, yada, yada, right? It's just kind of, but there's no emotional anything. It's just kind of a pause. Well, a lot of millennials and Zers will report that that dot dot dot makes them very anxious. And they're saying, Well, what is Darren not saying? What's he leaving out? And then they they kind of assume that they're doing something wrong, right? So something as simple as that. Um, or sending, if you have a lot of Gen Zers and you're sending them text messages and you put a period in a text message, you know, most older generations would say, um, that means that I'm using good grammar. And younger generations, you know, for Zers, it's like if they get that, that it's kind of harsh, it's really mean, it's very definitive. So I even had a young millennial one day say, Yeah, I couldn't stand my boomer boss for the first six months of working for him. And then I finally realized it was because he used periods in his text messages. So communication is a huge one. I think the way um we've parented across the generations has greatly impacted how employees show up and what they expect. You know, I think the big transition happened when um, you know, millennials are the first generation to call their parents their friends. And so that hierarchy, and our Gen Zers are the first generation to call their parents their best friends. So that kind of expected automatic hierarchy that boomers and Xers are accustomed to has now been greatly flattened. And, you know, we get very upset with millennials and Zers because we're like, don't you understand? Like, I'm the boss, you're supposed to respect me, but they come into the workforce going, well, but you're just like my dad, like you're my buddy, you know, and and so it's very different. And Gen Zers even report like, I want to have a lot more casual conversation. I don't want it to sound all professional. And um, so even the way um, you know, our parents kind of shaped our interactions, right? And boomers made it a very high intentional value to ask their millennial kids, like, what do you think about this? How are you feeling about this? And so millennials are used to their thoughts and feelings being heard, and they bring that into the workforce and they expect to be heard there, right? And um, so just creating space for employees to be heard, where a lot of extras and boomers are like, you know, nobody ever listened to me, like, why do I need to listen to you? You know, and if if in millennials and Zers, if they don't feel heard because they're used to that back and forth communication, then they start to feel a lot less valued. And then the final point I'll make on this um is just around the concept of loyalty, right? For you know, for traditionalists and older boomers, right? Like you work your entire career at a certain company or an organization, you get that pension, like there's a reason for you to stay. And and the mentality was like, I live to work, I work these long hours, this is how I got ahead, right? Well, that that has shifted, right? So Gen X becomes work hard, play hard. And then millennials and Zers are kind of like, well, we don't work harder, we just work smarter, right? And so they might schedule their day differently and they don't have to be behind their desk all day, and that that can be a huge transition.
SPEAKER_03I'm sitting here nodding away, and I realize the episode is is for more general consumption and not just to help me. However, um there's so much of what you're saying there, Catherine, relates to my life. I I I put dot dot dot in almost every email. So I'm going to think twice about that in future. Um, but also my text messages are always grammatically correct um and always finish with a period because otherwise it just feels incomplete. So, yes, that's really very interesting. Thank you. Um so so uh Marilyn uh Malaika, you you've both you both work with organizations and you've researched uh organizations as well. So when you listen to how uh Catherine describes implications for organizations, how does that relate to what you've seen in your experiences?
SPEAKER_02Well, first of all, I had to check my text to see if I are they grammatically correct as well? Oh, always, but the period, it looks like I have shifted. I I don't put periods at the end of my sentences anymore. Oh it's a tragedy. Uh you know, you you mentioned culture, coming back to your question. You mentioned uh culture a few minutes ago. So I'd like to answer the question from a cultural perspective. I I think to answer uh the answer to your question varies based on where you are in the world. Uh generational differences can vary across different cultures and and countries because uh different societies may have different historical, uh, economic uh and also cultural uh influences that can shape uh the attitudes, the values, and the expectations of different generations, and of course uh the attitudes and the expectations of employers, so not just employees. And so because I have lived in more than one country, I I'm very close to that answer. I I can almost feel it. So, for example, in some countries, older generations I have noticed may hold more traditional values and have more influence in the workplace, while in other countries, younger generations may be more highly educated and have more opportunities for advancement. In some cultures, intergenerational respect and communication are very highly valued, while in others uh there's less emphasis on communication and collaboration across generations. So, in addition to that, uh the uh economic, the political, and the social context of a country may shape the perspectives of different generations. So, for example, in countries where there has been a lot of political or uh and uh economic instability, the older generations may be more cautious and uh risk adverse, if you will, while the younger generations may be more eager for change. We see that in Eastern Europe, for example, or even in some Asian cultures. So cultural factors like these can have a big impact on how uh different generations view work. So organizations should really be aware of the uh cultural context when um uh addressing uh uh generational differences in the workplace. This is particularly true of organizations that have offices around the world.
SPEAKER_01But we are seeing different kinds of impacts because of differences where generations are concerned. And I kind of want to highlight an impact where HR is concerned and benefits that HR has to look at in terms of the benefits that we offer to our employees. So there's an impact in the sense that different generations will have different needs and different desires from HR, and the organization has to meet those differences. So I think of younger employees, for instance, who want benefits that would help them to start a family, benefits that might be related to things like childcare, buying a home. And then I go further and think about a Gen X generational cohort, and they may want benefits that help them to also take care of families, but those families include uh children and also aging parents, because we find that these are employees in our workforce who form part of the sandwich generation, which means that they're in between their young children and in between their older parents, and so they need benefits that would allow them to take care of both groups. And then we have our older employees like our baby boomers who are approaching retirement, and so they need benefits that would help them in terms of maybe things like health care. There's also another impact in terms of things like team dynamics and factors related to things like psychological safety and the differences in the workforce has an impact on dynamics because, as Catherine mentioned earlier, when we have employees working together and from different generations, and especially there's a vast stretch between the age groups, then issues of psychological safety come into play. And so that's another impact that we have to look at. There's also impacts in terms of employee productivity and an impact in terms of output. And different generations, because there are different needs, then the needs that they have will impact just how productive they are and just how much of an output that we get. So organizations will need to look at how we utilize and implement different approaches to work and ensure that these approaches are aligned with the needs of our generational cohort and ensure that we have adjustments so that we can, in essence, optimize employee performance. Last thing I wanted to mention on this area, Darren, is that we have impacts because of differences where ageism and age discrimination is concerned. And that's also something that impacts the organization, something that the workforce itself will have to contend with. And this ageism that will happen across different age groups, whether it is from our older employees being directed towards our younger employees, or younger employees being directed towards members of our older workforce. So we will see those kinds of issues because of the differences in the generations, and those things will impact our organizations and just how our employees interact in the workforce.
SPEAKER_03It's fascinating listening to the way you describe that and the implications for organizations. And I suppose naturally where that takes me, I think, is to start thinking about so what does this mean for HRD practice? So when you take a look at like the issues related to generations and how that plays out within organizations, what does this mean, do you think, for HRD practice, like the work it does, where it does it, how it works? From putting your practitioner hat on, or pracademic hat on, how does that play out for HRD practice?
SPEAKER_01So thanks, Darren. One of the things that struck me when we think about HRD practice, because we're talking about development, then training and professional development immediately comes to mind. And I think that one of the impacts or implications for practice is how we train our employees and also how we train leaders in the organization. So because of this multi-generational workforce, because we have these differences in cohorts, then HR has to be very deliberate in terms of how we train our leaders to manage employees. So our leaders and our managers are not necessarily, some are not comfortable managing across different generations, some are not compatible managing persons who may be significantly older or significantly younger than themselves. And so HR has to have a lot of plans in place so that we can train our leaders so that they can manage their workforce and use different strategies that are age appropriate and generationally appropriate so that they can get the best out of their employees. I think there's also important to mention, and I think Marie Lane will probably talk more about it, in terms of the mentorship and how we train and have reverse mentorship, so that we have older employees who are being trained by younger employees. And that's implications for practice because HR has to put things in place, mentorship programs in place, reverse mentorship programs in place, so that our employees can be trained by each other, and all with the intention of ensuring that we can have organizational success. We have to just ensure that we revise our practices to adapt to the diverse nature of our multi-generational workforce. Talent management, for instance, an important part of talent management as part of the HRD function. And we look at things like recruitment and how that starts as part of developmental function, and we have to change the way we recruit because of these differences in the workforce. And that's a big impact for HR because HR can no longer recruit in the same manner. HR has to think about where do we recruit so that we can source employees from different areas. So initially there was hesitation about things like social media, and we didn't want to recruit on social media because it just didn't seem appropriate for HR to be doing that. And then it kind of became appropriate to use LinkedIn, and that became like an acceptable means of recruitment for particular generations. But now HR has to recognize that there are so many other avenues where we can source employees. There is Instagram, there's TikTok, and so HR has to think how do we go out and source in these areas so that we can make ourselves available and accessible to different persons that we want regarding who are from different generations. Our employer brand is another implication for HR. HR will need to partner, for instance, with like a marketing department to ensure that our employer brand is such that it is appealing to persons from different generational groups. So I think, in essence, in terms of our impact for HR, there's a lot of requirement for HR to now become flexible because we have the multi-generational workforce. HR has to ensure that policies are devised and developed that would be appropriate and applicable to these different generations. And HR will have to ensure that they can lise and work with different departments just to ensure that we are meeting the needs of employees across different age groups. We can facilitate and foster an inclusive environment. It's very, very important for HR to be even more deliberate about fostering the inclusive workforce because we have persons from different cohorts.
SPEAKER_02Different generations may have different priorities and values when it comes to their careers, which can impact how they view job opportunities, but also what they look for in an employer. So, for example, older generations may prioritize job stability, as Catherine said earlier, while younger generations may prioritize flexibility and opportunities for growth and development. And as she said also, you know, the typical Gen Z and even millennial will only stay with an employer for about three years, especially if there is no opportunity for growth and development. Another aspect that Maleka touched upon is training and development, right? Different generations may have different learning styles and preferences. And that can impact how they respond to training and development opportunities. So, for example, older generations may prefer more traditional classroom style training, while younger generations may prefer more interactive and digital learning opportunities. Now, another, I think, implication would be about communication and management, right? Different generations may have different communication styles and preferences. We talked about that, you know, text, emails, but that can really impact how they interact with their managers and colleagues. Older generations, as we've said, may prefer face-to-face communication, while younger generations may be more comfortable communicating in digital ways. So organizations and HRD professionals ought to communicate in ways that take those generational differences into account. And as I mentioned earlier, and thanks for reminding me to talk about uh mentoring, generational differences are turning the traditional mentoring relationship on its head, as I mentioned earlier. So mentoring is when a senior employee provides guidance, provides career advice and psychosocial support to a junior employee. And what we have seen in the past five, maybe seven years, is the reverse of that, which is called reverse mentoring. And reverse mentoring is a process in which a more experienced or senior employee, if you will, is being mentored by a less experienced or junior employee. And this typically involves the junior employee uh providing guidance and training to the senior employee on a very specific topic or skill, such as technology, such as social media, such as, I don't know, diversity and inclusion, right? So the goal of reverse mentoring is to provide the senior employee with a new perspective and to help them stay current with new developments in their field, while also providing the junior employee with an opportunity to develop their own leadership and mentoring skills, to grow that growth and development aspect. And then finally, I think that generational differences have implications for HRE practice in terms of benefits and incentives. Different generations may have different needs and preferences when it comes to benefits and incentives. And again, to use the example of the older generation versus younger generation, um, the older generation may place more value on retirement plans. Heck, I do. I don't consider myself an old person, but you know, I'm about nine years from retirement. So yes, I'm definitely going to value retirement plans more. Um, while younger generations may place more value on health and wellness programs. Now, mind you, I also place a lot of emphasis on health and wellness programs myself. But again, um, HRD practitioners ought to be uh attentive to those differences if they want to be successful in recruiting and retaining employees. And they must uh uh implement strategies that really cater to those uh diverse needs of uh of the varied employees, you know, from multi-generations.
SPEAKER_00You know, one thing I just keep hearing that resonates and keeps coming up in me, right, is that it takes intentionality, right? This stuff doesn't happen unless we work at it. And I think a lot of people, again, we assume we make assumptions that people see the world the way we do. And so we have to be um open to understanding and like Melika said, that psychological safety for every generation to really bring their best selves to the table. And I think one of the big um obstacles is generational bias, right? It comes from every direction. You know, there's no one generation who's immune to it. There's no one generation that's um that that doesn't do it, right? We we hear all the time, right? Oh, you're such a millennial, or you hear hashtag okay boomer, which means you're 40 and over and totally irrelevant, right? And and we think these things are funny, right? But people, it actually impacts the way different generations are showing up on the team and it impacts our culture. And you know, if if if somebody on your team doesn't like millennials and they've decided that they're, you know, as Time magazine labeled them lazy, narcissistic, and entitled, like those millennials know that, whether you say it or not, right? They can feel it. And so we have to work through that. And, you know, I often ask people like, would you ever make any of those same comments in any other area of diversity? Right? Would you look at me today and say, Well, oh, Kathy. And you're such a woman, right? You wouldn't dream of doing that, but we say that about an entire generation of millennials, right? Oh, you're such a millennial. And they're so tired of it, right? And so we're creating these spaces with a lot of angst and tension just because of the comments we make. You know, I have one um one CEO, she used to come out into the work, the foyer of her workplace, and she would say, I need a millennial. And what she was really saying is, you know, I'm a little bit embarrassed. Can some one of you please come help me? Because I need help with technology, right? So eventually a millennial would get up, they'd go help her, right? And about three to six months later, they started leaving her company and she was like, I don't know what's happening, I don't know why they're leaving. And because she really liked her millennials. It wasn't this negative attitude she had. And then one of them finally looked at her and they said, you know, we bring a lot more value to this company than just our skills with technology, but that's the only thing you ever call us out for. Right. And so, even through trying to hide her own embarrassment by making it a generational statement, what she was doing was isolating an entire generation of millennials, so much so that they wanted, they were now leaving, right? They didn't even want to be there anymore. And so I think, and you know, a lot of that starts at the top, right? What is the mindset? What is the mentality towards each generation that's kind of flowing from the top? And are you someone who respects and honors the diversity through a generational lens of everybody that's on your team? Or do you have some real obstacles that you need to work through that might be keeping people from really um bringing their best selves to the table?
SPEAKER_03Listening to all of that and the the obvious and clear implications for HRD practice, uh I'm wondering what this means for for how we prepare people for careers in in HRD. And Marilyn, you're you're deep into this in terms of your own teaching and and closeness to other HRD programs and around various institutions in the in the US. So I'm wondering what you see as the implications for the way education programs prepare people to work on topics like this.
SPEAKER_02I see it in several ways, right? First, in as you mentioned, in curriculum development, right? Just at the foundation of education, if you will. HT education programs should definitely include material that addresses the different values, the perspective, the communication styles of different generations, as well as how to manage and lead a multi-generational workforce. A second implication I see is how we recruit and train employees, so HRD professionals should be totally prepared to recruit, to train, to retain employees from different generations. And that can include understanding, making sure that students understand the different motivations and expectations of each generation and adapting uh recruitment and training strategies accordingly. Now, an interesting and important fact for HRD professionals to really keep in mind is that by 2025, and that's just a couple of years from now, 75% of the workforce in the US will be millennials. And so understanding them and knowing how to recruit them, to train them, and to retain them should be part of preparing future HRD professionals. That may include, of course, learning to design benefits and incentives that meet the needs of employees of different ages. Now, the third implication is the role of technology. We've been talking about it, you know, including do you put periods at the end of your texts? Now, younger generations have grown up with technology, as we know, and they may expect to use it in their careers. So HRD professionals should be prepared to use technology to recruit, to train, and to manage employees. As you know, I'm a professor of HR and leadership, and in our master's degree in HR, we prepare future HR leaders and we make sure to really focus on the important role of technology in HR. We teach them about digital HR, digital transformation, but also on people analytics. So that definitely is a booming area in HRG education. And then finally, a fourth implication is I think an emphasis on equality, diversity, and inclusion. So HRG education should prepare people to work with employees from different backgrounds, you know, to create a diverse and inclusive workplace. And really understanding what diversity means, what equality means, and what inclusion means. So ultimately, HRD education should cover uh the different aspects of managing a multi-generational workforce, including, as I mentioned, recruiting, training, retaining employees from different generations, but also understanding the different values and perspectives of different generations in order to really foster a positive work environment because that's the goal, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. We have to look at our course curriculum and ensure that the course curriculum focuses on workplace aging and the multi-generational workforce. Where DEI is concerned, um, I find a lot of our DEI courses are focused on gender and race. So I also would want to see that as part of we, as part of how we prepare persons for careers in HR, we ensure that the DEI strategy includes age because sometimes age is left out of the discussion. So it's very important that our courses include that. I also want to talk a little about internships. A lot of our programs, internships are nice to have. Some programs don't require internships at all. But I think as part of preparing persons for careers in HR, we should emphasize internships. We might even want to consider making internships mandatory before persons go into the HR space so that they can get a feel for real-world world of work experience in multi-generational workforces. And I want to see the internships happen in organizations that have a heavy focus on the multi-generational workforce. I also think about conferences. And Darren, we just had like AHRD just had their conference, and it would be good in terms of how we prepare people for careers in HR to have our students go to those conferences so that they can be exposed to practitioners, exposed to scholars, exposed to different topic areas that will be so impactful once they get into the field. So it would be good to have universities and graduate programs partner with some of these conferences so that we can sponsor students. And this is not just necessarily a nice to have, but something that students know they can look forward to. I also want to touch on not just preparation for students. I'm in academia, I'm a professor, assistant professor. So naturally my thought process goes there, but also preparation for persons who are going into more senior HR roles because we have to prepare for that as well. And for persons who want to change and leave one industry and transition into HR. So I think it's also important that as we prepare them, there are a lot of professional development opportunities so that persons who are already in the organization can get training, can get exposure to different areas of HR, developmental opportunities so they can keep abreast of trends in HR, keep abreast of legal considerations, keep abreast of things like employment laws, discrimination laws, um, anything along that sort, so that they can be prepared for these new roles that they might go into. So I think implications right now, how we prepare people for HR, we're doing a good job right now. I want to say that we're doing a good job, but there's always room for improvement. And it's just a matter of extending a lot of what we're doing now and ensuring that as we develop our course curriculum, as we enhance the curriculum, that age becomes an important topic that also makes its way into the classroom. Because I don't think that a lot of our courses now focus on age. I think other factors are being looked at, which they should, but I think we also want to start including age heavily, do the internships, do the conferences, have a lot of professional development. And I think that should help us in terms of the next set of um professionals that we send into the workplace.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I agree with all of that. I think that would create so many more open people to explore this topic and really do it well. Um, and just two things I would throw in there for Melica, for you to even add to your amazing list you already have is um, you know, helping people appreciate and understand the need for wisdom, right? I think right now information is a commodity for younger generations, right? It's available at their fingertips and helping them understand what it's like to have, you know, served your whole career um doing things a certain way or seeing the world a certain way. And there's, but there's knowledge and experience that have has come from that that can only come as you through time. And so, how do we help people not throw the baby out with the bathwater while we need that reverse mentoring, um, but even allowing space sometimes for co-mentoring, right? So that it goes in both directions, so that it doesn't swing too far to one side, but that both sides feel heard and seen and valued, so that as people age, they're not kind of left behind. And then the other thing I hear a lot is just for younger people when they're managing someone who's older than them and they often feel stuck, they're not sure what to do, they're not sure why maybe they're they're not being uh perceived in a positive light. And so really preparing them through this generational lens, right, to understand where someone might be coming from or help equip them to navigate that.
SPEAKER_03I'm conscious we're inching our way close towards the end of our hour together. And uh, as we do that, um, I'm also conscious that one of the groups of folks listening to this conversation in the podcast will be researchers around the world. So I I'd I'd like to wrap up our conversation by thinking a bit about future research and specifically what research you'd like to see happen into HRD and generations, and and this could be a chance to influence research agendas. So uh Malaika, do you have any thoughts on what research you'd like to see happen?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, thank you, Darren. So my initial thing is I want to see research happening in other countries. So we do a good job, I want to say, in North America, here in the US, in terms of our research where aging is concerned. My research shows me that we don't have as much information in other geographic regions. I think about the Caribbean, for instance, and I'm from the Caribbean, and the Caribbean is aging faster than other regions in the world, but we don't have a lot of research on workplace aging in the Caribbean. And that's concerning, right? So there's a lot of aging happening in the Caribbean, aging faster than everywhere else, but we don't have a lot of research that's being conducted there. So, in terms of what kind of research is needed, I think we need to expand and go a little beyond our borders. And that also helps us in terms of the comparative analysis that we can do between what's happening here in the US, where aging is concerned in the workplace, and what's happening in other parts of the world. I think it would be it would make for excellent um contributions to the research contributions to practitioners. Also, I want to look at research in terms of sectors. So if you scan through the literature, there are some sectors, manufacturing, for instance, I've seen a lot of work done in those industries. I think we also need to kind of spend time in other industries and see what kind of research can happen there. I think about my own work, for instance, and I have done research in the finance sector, but there are so many other sectors that have not been tapped into. And I think we just also want to look at research, sector by sector research, and see how that can enhance the field and enhance the work that you do for aging. And I'm gonna come back to leadership. I know Catherine is our leadership person, right? But I also teach a leadership course, and I know that as part of my course, I focus heavily on leadership, different leadership styles, different leadership strategies. But I also want to see research done in terms of what are the appropriate leadership styles and strategies for generational cohorts. So, what we do right now is we talk about these are the traits that you need to be an effective leader. These are the traits that you need in order to enhance your workforce. But I want to see research done in terms of these are the traits that would allow you to be effective if you are managing persons from this particular cohort. These are the traits that would be effective if you want to generate and have full capacity from persons from another cohort. So those are some of the areas that for me, the research is needed in that area. I would love to see it happening. And I think that once we do that, then we can, you know, it helps to turn the research agendas and it's a good opportunity for scholars who are coming up, who are interested in the field.
SPEAKER_00And then I would just, when Malaika said it, you know, kind of looking at it across countries and around the world, I'm like jumping up and down, right? Because there it's very hard to find a lot of good research around the world from a generational perspective. So I think that's a huge void to be filled. I would also um look at generational bias. How is that impacting the workplace, right? And get some um some real hard data on that. And then I think the final thing I would offer that I mean, these two have had so many amazing um thoughts on this. So I would just add, um, keeping people relevant, you know, before COVID, uh the boomers were talking about how they don't feel relevant or they're afraid they're not gonna stay relevant, be relevant. Now we have millennials saying, I don't know, like I have to stay relevant, I have to keep learning. And Gen Zers, you know, 86% of them have said the number one reason they'll accept a job offer is because you're gonna tell them how you're gonna grow and develop them, right? They're hungry to grow and learn. And so everybody's in a place of desiring to learn, to stay up on things because our world is changing so fast. And so, what are the ways we can further equip each generation so that when they come into work, they have that confidence that they're able to perform and be the best team player that they can be?
SPEAKER_02I think we should also investigate how to bridge the communication and understanding gap between different generations. We should study the impact of technology on the different generations in the workplace. We should also investigate how to best create a culture that is inclusive and respectful of different generations. You know, I mentioned earlier that we have seen research shift towards exploring the similarities and the overlaps between generations rather than focusing solely on the differences. So, without a doubt, more research is needed in that area. We should also try to better understand the impact of diversity, equity, and inclusion on different generations, as Malika just said. And as she also said, we should investigate how to develop leadership skills in managers to lead a diverse and multi-generational uh workforce. So ultimately, research in HRD and generations is really, really important to help organizations create a more inclusive and effective workplace for employees of all ages, right? And because we know we have about what, four generations still in the workforce. So uh, you know, HRD researchers have a prolific future.
SPEAKER_03That feels a wonderful, motivational way of wrapping up the episode. And unfortunately, we've run out of time for today's conversation, but I want to say a big thank you to uh my three guests, so Catherine, Malaika, and Marilyn, for such an interesting discussion and for giving us all so much to think about and then hopefully to then act upon. So thank you all so much.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Darren. Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. It was so much fun, and I learned so much. And I'm gonna pay really, really close attention to my texts.
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you all. I love having this conversation, and it was such a fun blend of higher ed and the corporate space. So uh we'd make a great team.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for joining me for this episode. It was wonderful spending time with Catherine Jeffrey, Melicah Edwards, and Marilyn Germain. If you enjoyed this episode, check out all of our others. There were 33 episodes in the first three seasons, and we're releasing a further 11 here in the fourth. Between them, they provide access to conversations with over 100 leading scholars from around the world. New episodes release weekly. To learn more about the series, check out HRDmasterclass.com. And to learn about the Academy of Human Resource Development, check out ahrd.org. I'm looking forward to being with you in our next episode when we're exploring the relationship between HRD and artificial intelligence. With the help of Dr. Alexandra Ardashvili of the University of Minnesota in the United States, Dr. Maria Jose Sousa of the University Institute of Lisbon in Portugal, and Dr. Uta Wilkins of the Royal University Bochum in Germany. Until then, this is Darren Short signing off from the HRD Masterclass.com.
