The Pilates Business Podcast
The Pilates Business Podcast
The Clinical Pilates Assessment Revolution
In this first episode, host David Gunther welcomes Dr. Ryan Comeau, CEO of Kinetisense, to explore the revolution in clinical Pilates through the use of 3D motion capture technology. Dr. Comeau shares his journey from chiropractic to pioneering this biomechanical assessment tool, which allows Pilates instructors to move from subjective evaluations to data-driven, personalized programs. This revolutionary approach enhances client outcomes by providing objective insights, fostering stronger engagement, trust, and compliance.
Dr. Comeau highlights how Kinetisense’s advanced motion analysis improves both in-studio and at-home training by integrating the biopsychosocial model. Clients experience measurable improvements in mobility and well-being, ensuring long-term commitment to their Pilates practice. The precision in tracking progress keeps clients motivated and compliant throughout their journey.
The episode also previews the business potential of Kinetisense, showing how Pilates studios can use this technology to boost client satisfaction and profitability. Stay tuned for deeper insights in upcoming episodes.
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"This new groundbreaking technology is just a fantastic change to our industry because it's really going to augment what our businesses can do, augment what our instructors can do, and augment the benefits to our clients in a really cost-effective way."
David Gunther – Director Pilates Can / Pilates Business
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DAVID GUNTHER: You may not be aware, but we're in the middle of a revolution, a clinical Pilates assessment revolution, using technology to advance us way past where we've been to a much better place. We're very lucky to have Dr. Ryan Comeau, the CEO of Kinetisense, with us for an eight-episode series. We will concentrate on clinical Pilates and how we can use Kinetisense to help our business thrive, using this technology and getting it out to our clients and potential clients, who are just going to love what it delivers.
Dr. Ryan Comeau completed his Doctorate of Chiropractic with honours and distinction, Magna Cum Laude, from Southern California University back in 2011. When he was attending his graduate studies, he immediately saw the need for the development of an objective and efficient analysis tool in the neuromusculoskeletal health industry.
Dr. Comeau founded Kinetisense in 2015 to create a scalable human motion data capture system that would solve some of the significant issues in the healthcare ecosystem. Dr. Comeau is a pioneer of this revolution and the development and application of clinical 3D motion analysis. Kinetisense has now become the leader in biomechanics assessment, and its 3D motion capture system is being used globally for applications such as clinical rehabilitation, sports performance, senior care, and workplace wellness.
The Kinetisense movement capture system is an internationally award-winning analysis tool currently being used by professional sports organisations, hospitals, clinics, universities, and research facilities on a global scale. The Kinetisense solution is used in over 25 countries and has been translated into over 12 languages.
Dr. Comeau is an international speaker, and he enjoys sharing his passion, which comes through in the podcast episodes. You're going to love it because it's going to love your business. It's going to help you be more profitable, help your clients more effectively, and bring in more clients. It will make the whole experience much more effective compared to what we've had with more subjective assessment tools.
So, welcome to the revolution. If you weren't quite sure there was a revolution going on, then you'd better listen and find out all about it because I'm going to introduce Dr. Ryan Comeau, and we're going to talk Kinetisense, and we're going to talk “Pilates Can Progress Your Mobility” specifically designed to help Pilates studio owners relate to their clientele and use all of the modules most relevant for clinical Pilates in your studios.
Welcome to the clinical Pilates revolution, which is Kinetisense. Without further ado, let's move into the first episode.
A new, groundbreaking technology is just a fantastic change to our industry because it's really going to augment what our businesses can do, augment what our instructors can do, and augment the benefits to our clients in a really cost-effective way that will allow many business opportunities for us. That's what we're going to explore in this eight-episode series. That series will focus on exactly what those business use cases are.
The first business use case is about how we use Kinetisense, a particular version that’s called “Pilates Can Progress Your Mobility”. Using that in a clinical Pilates studio setting is going to be a wonderful benefit for us. Dr. Ryan, thanks very much for joining us. We're very excited to have you on the show and to really explore the business use cases for Kinetisense, and how it's going to be solving 10 Pilates business problems with just one new solution, due to rapid technology advancements.
Dr. Ryan, welcome to the show.
Dr. RYAN COMEAU: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to have the Canadian-Australian connection here.
DAVID: Absolutely. I've not ever visited Canada, but my good wife, Claire, and I would love to do so one day. We're going to focus in on our clinical Pilates studio owner audience now. Being a clinical Pilates studio owner myself, along with my wife, Claire, we're trying to address many common problems and challenges to really help our clients. Innovative technology has had its place with that.
Dr. Ryan, if you could share just a brief overview of Kinetisense and what inspired its development?
Dr. RYAN: I really appreciate that, and really appreciate this opportunity to share the Kinetisense story, I'm a practitioner, a chiropractor by trade. I come from that MSK (musculoskeletal), NMSK (neuromusculoskeletal) space. Our idea of Kinetisense was really bridged from a huge problem that we saw in this NMSK space, and Pilates and clinical Pilates are definitely part of that ecosystem.
As a clinician, when I started my studies, my clinical studies, we were looking at different ways that we analyse human movement because, technically, we're in the human movement space. Whether you're a practitioner or whether you have a Pilates studio and you're a trainer, it doesn't matter, we're all part of human movement.
I was blown away by how we have very little tools to assess dynamic human movement. That started me down this road of trying to find ways that we can objectify human movement, find the areas of compensation, and then be able to attack those areas of compensation through a plan.
That's where we got into looking at different 3D motion capture systems. We started to look at the Microsoft Kinect camera. This was actually a gaming camera that had come out about 10 to 12 years ago from Microsoft, and I was amazed at how it could pick up the joints three-dimensionally without having to put any wearables on the body. So, how do we get that type of technology in the hands of our movement therapists, of our trainers, of our practitioners to be able to objectify movement and not eyeball movement anymore?
It's funny, a lot of the cookie-cutter approach that we see in the clinical realm, we also see that in the fitness realm. My belief is that cookie-cutter approach, that one-size-fits-all type of methodology that we have, is stemming from the fact that we don't have granular assessment. We're not able to start someone on a pathway that's specific to their body, to their needs, that takes into account their history of compensations that they're bringing into the Pilates studio or clinic. We're not able to identify that rapidly when we simply eyeball assessment.
So, that's what Kinetisense is. We progressed it with the iPad Pro camera, which is a 3D sensor built into the iPad. With our advanced algorithms, we're able to pick up the body in three dimensions, from the front, from the side, overhead, all at once, and look at things like gait, look at things like a squat pattern, you name it. All of these different functional movement assessments, and score the person and then map them, and tell you where the areas are that they need mobility and where the areas are that they need stability.
Then you can take that granular approach.
So that is what Kinetisense is, that is the problem that we're trying to solve. We are basically a GPS, so to speak, for the practitioner, for the trainer, to identify, "What path am I going to take this patient or client through?" And along the journey, be able to recheck, reassess: Are we making progress? Are they moving better? Are they more symmetric? And using it almost as a triage system. Because, at the end of the day, we're going to have great outcomes if we use data to help to drive our pathway.
DAVID: That's a terrific explanation of where we're at and where Kinetisense is at, and how it can contribute. It's so exciting. I heard on the media today that Nvidia, who started off as a gaming software company, has seen their share price go up by a thousand percent in the last four years.
To hear that Kinetisense is part of that technology, I know that there's an AI component and the Microsoft Lidar camera that's involved. The gaming side of it has brought this technology through to the fore. It's so fitting. We like to have a bit of fun in our studio with our clients, so that they not only feel they have to be there, but they feel that they love to be there.
They'll love to be there, I'm sure, even more so due to what Kinetisense and Pilates Can Progress Your Mobility will be able to bring to their experience. Let's delve a little bit deeper into how Kinetisense helps address issues like clients not recognising their progress.
We're changing over, obviously, to what we're doing now. We're in the middle of that with Kinetisense from our previous process, which is to eyeball for that first couple of private sessions with our clientele and then create a written programme for those clients to use in the session.
But we've had clients that have been with us, Dr. Ryan, for 10 years, 15 years, and certainly very common that they've been with us for five years. Once people find a service like Pilates Can, a clinical Pilates studio, they really do appreciate what we provide and how we provide that. So, we're always looking at how we can do that better, how we can improve, and I can see the amazing opportunities there.
Let us know a little bit more about how the client can recognise their progress and how to help with those challenges that our instructors face in updating their personalised programmes.
Dr. RYAN: That's a really important point, actually. It gets down to the value proposition piece. If you think about it, whether you're a clinic, or whether you're a Pilates studio, or you're a clinical Pilates studio, it really comes down to providing differentiation or being able to provide a higher level of service or value for the client.
At the end of the day, they're the ones that drive our clinics, they're the ones that drive our studios. They're the ones that are coming in and paying for these services, and we don't think enough about that. In my opinion, as clinic owners, as studio owners, we don't think enough about how this affects the overall interaction, I guess you could say, between the client and the Pilates instructor, for instance, and that is critical. That is, at base, the most critical element.
We put all this time, effort, and money into learning different techniques, different Pilates movements, different ways that we can affect the body, but we've put very little time and effort into looking at the assessment side. And I would argue that is the absolute most critical piece. This is the reason why: If we believe that the client is the driver of the ecosystem, which they are, what are we doing to augment communication between myself, the Pilates instructor, or the doctor and the client? That's critical, and compliance is everything.
If you can get buy-in by that Pilates client, and if you can establish that buy-in at an early stage, they're yours for life. I feel that subjectivity really is the poison to that. When we come across with subjective, "Here’s my opinion" type of wording to the client, it's a 50/50. It's really only if they see change, if they perceive change associated with the subjective opinion, that subjective opinion starts to hold weight and value. That can take a long time. It can take a long time to see big change.
Sometimes, when we're looking at NMSK (neuromusculoskeletal) rehab, it's minute changes over time, right? Depending on how much compensation patterns, "functional baggage," I call it, that individual brings into the element of their care cycle.
Imagine if we could speed that process up. Where first visit, they're talking, they're chatting with you, you're assessing them. They all of a sudden have this experience where they're getting three-dimensional motion capture. They're seeing numbers from the system show up, and then, as the Pilates instructor, you're then identifying those areas and elaborating on those areas that have been showcased by the system objectively.
Putting together a plan as the expert, based on the mapping of the body, they are immediately going to have buy-in. This is scientific now. And guess what? It's actually amazing from a biopsychosocial model, because we've got to remember that the biopsychosocial piece here is a massive piece of if that client is going to feel like they're getting better or not.
If they can see change or see numbers, and they're bought into the model, the research tells us, they'll actually feel that they're getting better 30% faster, or improving 30% faster, than if it's a subjective assessment-based model. And that is critical. It's critical to our practices, it's critical to our outcomes, it's critical to everything we do, which is about driving outcome and value to the client and the patient.
DAVID: Totally agree.
I'm going to ask you to explain a little bit more about biopsychosocial model. That sounds really impressive. I'd like to know exactly what that is, particularly since it will increase buy-in. The belief side of things which is so important to the relationship, helping our clients actually be able to achieve an excellent Pilates exercise habit, as we call it.
Because if we can help them achieve an excellent Pilates exercise habit, then it's highly likely they'll get some results. If they get some results, it's highly likely that they'll be coming back, and we only get paid if they come back. Also, they'll recommend us to their families, friends, and contacts. So, please tell us some more about that.
Dr. RYAN: I really appreciate that. So, the biopsychosocial model, you're going to hear a lot more about this model. It's becoming much more prevalent. It's made its way into the neuromusculoskeletal space. There's all this research about how our state of mind, our level of stress at any given time, directly affects our movement, our perception of pain, and our perception of improvement, our perception of being able to achieve our goals functionally.
In the last two to three years, it's been one of the biggest changes that we've seen from a clinical aspect. We're treating the whole body, and that includes the mind. I think that's one of the really cool things that I love about Pilates: that it's always been at the forefront of this holistic approach.
For instance, when I have a patient coming into my clinic, or there's a client coming into a Pilates studio, one of the things that we need to identify, and this is really important as practitioners and as coaches, is what type of personality we're dealing with. What are the goals of that personality? What are the fears of that personality? What makes them tick? What is going to get them to attach to understanding the deficits that they have in their body, and how do they attach to being able to see how implementing a plan is going to help them?
That's really what the biopsychosocial model from a clinical perspective and a rehab perspective looks like. What we're finding is that how we communicate with these different individuals or personality types is critical. We almost have to become somewhat of a chameleon as a coach, as a practitioner, to be able to identify the type of personality we're dealing with and then to be able to adjust to that personality type so that there's a connection being made.
Once you have that connection, the chances of having a positive outcome in their eyes, which is very important as part of the biopsychosocial model, not just in the coach's or the practitioner's eyes, are much higher. There's no better place in that process of applying or improving that biopsychosocial model for the patient or the client to buy into protocol than by having advanced assessment, than by adding a tool that shows, "This is where you stand," and "This is where you want to get to."
This is the plan that we're going to have, and we're going to check that along the way. So, in essence, it's really establishing trust. That's really what the biopsychosocial model is, it's about buy-in, it's about compliance, it's about their willingness to do the things that they're asked to do.
It's about their willingness to see the process of their rehab, of their training, through a different lens, and that lens is really developed at that early onset of interaction with the practitioner or the coach.
DAVID: That's going to resonate so well with our Pilates studio business owners because it says so much about exactly what they're trying to achieve and what they are achieving. At the moment, they're achieving it mostly with this subjective assessment all the way through, without the numbers, without the ability to reflect on those numbers as needed, and to work with someone virtually as well, through the app.
I'd like for you to tell us a little bit more, Dr. Ryan, about how the app works and how it would work with homework, because the assessment is really important. They know where they're at, they know what they're trying to achieve, as you say, and they believe. Most importantly, as you've said, they believe, not the instructor believing, not the studio believing, but the client believes that they're going to get the results, which will make all the difference.
We always say, when someone comes to us and says, "I'm not really sure if I want to do this, it's expensive." They might not even say that, but that's what they're thinking. "I'm going to look around and see what else I can get, which is a lot cheaper"..... and that won't do the job.
If they don't believe, we're happy to say, "Look, it's better that you don't work with us," because for us, it's better. We need to be working with people who believe what we're doing is making a difference for them, so it can make a difference. Otherwise, we've got a roadblock right there.
So, one of those adherence pieces is obviously the homework that we're giving, and there's some particular things that we're doing with the way we're using our version of Kinetisense, the "Pilates Can Progress Your Mobility" version, where we'll have access to an app. Please tell the story there of how that works, Dr. Ryan.
Dr. RYAN: Absolutely. So, we touched on the assessment part of Kinetisense, that's something that would happen in the studio with the iPad Pro camera. We have a functional movement screen called KAMS, Kinetisense Advanced Movement Screen. We designed it approximately four years ago, and launched it. It's a workflow of 12 different movements that are evidence-based movements that assess over 250 compensations of the body in a five-minute screen. So, it's very fast.
At the end of the movement screen, it gives what's called functional planar mapping, a mapping of the body on an avatar of the joints that need mobility and stability. This is the critical piece because now we can start to apply Pilates, different movements, target different areas, start to look at fascial patterns that we need to target, but also be able to look at the areas that we can send that individual with homework that they can work on some basic mobility.
Maybe it's the right shoulder that lacks mobility in the transverse plane, they can be given corrective exercises or homework to free that up, which is then going to tie into the overall function that they have when they go back into their more dynamic Pilates movements.
We do that through over a thousand corrective exercises that we have in our library. After the functional planar mapping is done, the Pilates Can instructor can say, "I'm going to send you home with this exercise, with this stretch." Then that automatically gets sent to the end user's phone app, which is free.
They then go through their phone app, which sends back a compliance report to the Pilates Can instructor. So, adding that clinical element, we would only see suggestive exercises or exercise homework, so to speak, in the clinical world. The fact that Pilates Can is now doing this in that clinical Pilates setting is just fantastic.
I think it's very enabling for that client and definitely is going to show an increase in results through the dynamic rehab and movement of the Pilates Can movements and then the breakout joint-by-joint mobility that they can do at home. It's a beautiful pathway in my opinion.
DAVID: Your opinion is certainly echoed by our experience because it beats what we have been doing in the past,... for the last thousand years, with pieces of paper, with drawings on them, and instructions on those pieces of paper. A little bit difficult to get real-time feedback there.
So, it totally changes what can happen then in their semi-private sessions too because we've been talking about private sessions, where we're doing the assessment and setting the course for the client, and what they're going to be doing with the exercises and the stretches, and addressing the imbalances that they have.
In the actual sessions as well, we now have that absolutely terrific way of being able to use the app, so the instructor will know what the client has done. It won't be, "Oh yeah, I did those." Sure you did! And, "I’ve been doing them every day." It'll be, "Okay, did you?" because it'll actually be on the app.
Tell us a little bit more about that and what sort of experiences you could relate to us from both a client and a practitioner point of view.
So, we're going to leave this first episode right there and ask Dr. Ryan Comeau to answer that question for us in the next episode, the second episode of this eight-episode series. You're going to learn about business case uses for what you can do in your studio and how this new groundbreaking assessment technology will be able to help you quite significantly.
But until then, Stay Awesome!