TRANSCRIPT

Kirk Bachmann: Hi everyone, my name is Kirk Bachmann, and welcome back to The Ultimate Dish. Today is a very special episode because I’m speaking with two amazing chefs, who are quite funny, by the way.

Chef Antonio Perez, a Disciple of Escoffier, Bocuse d’Or judge, author, and international chef who’s worked in kitchens in South America, Europe, Asia, and the Caribbean.

And his mentee, right next door, and recent Escoffier grad, Luis Rodriguez, a U.S. Navy veteran who turned his passion for cooking into a culinary career.

Today, they have collaborated to launch the Epicuro Culinary Center in the heart of San Juan, offering guests a culinary journey through South America, Europe, Asia, and the Caribbean.

Join me today for a very different episode where we’ll explore the rise of two chefs, their serendipitous meeting and friendship, and their innovative culinary adventure.

And there they are! Good morning. How are you?

Luis Rodriguez: Good morning.

Setting the Scene

Kirk Bachmann: I can already tell that you’re up to no good. You’re up to no good. You’re laughing. How are you? How’s the weather in San Juan?

Luis Rodriguez: It’s cold. It dropped down to about 78.

Kirk Bachmann: Oh, okay.

Luis Rodriguez: We had to break out the sweater.

Kirk Bachmann: Antonio, get Luis a blanket. Okay. Get him a little jacket.

Before we get going, because I’m a historian of sorts, I think over Antonio’s right shoulder, I see a duck press. Is that a duck press?

Antonio Perez: Yes it is.

Kirk Bachmann: Is it! You want to talk about it, don’t you? What’s next to it?

Antonio Perez: You got me on the spot.

Kirk Bachmann: What’s right behind Luis? Luis, you have to move to the side. Oh my gosh!

Antonio Perez: A Berkel Slicer.

Kirk Bachmann: Is that your baby?

Antonio Perez: Italian designed, yes. I have emotions. I get emotional. I’m not allowed to talk. I think it’s fascinating in this concept, in this open kitchen, when you have the chance to have a nice ham or charcuterie. Everything related. Carpaccios and then do everything in front of the guests. That machine itself, it’s not a firm blade. It wiggles, so it dances with you. It’s a relationship. I highly recommend it.

Antonio’s Journey to Disciple

Kirk Bachmann: I love it. I’m glad it made it into the screen.

For guests that are listening, this is going to be so much fun. Antonio, I have not seen you. I’ve followed you and we’ve connected, but I haven’t seen you since we were together in Nice in 2015. I want to go back to that incredible adventure. We’ll share what we can. What has been going on since 2015? We’re going to get into all the detail, but you survived the pandemic, the whole bit. How’ve you been?

Antonio Perez: I’ve been great. Those years, I was very busy running the corporation of Oro Verde, which is five hotels. It gave me the opportunity to learn what you can do with diverse teams in diverse corners of the country. One of the things that I needed to re-pass, it was pastry. I remember that you can know the recipe, you can have the recipe in your DNA, but I said to myself, “I need a refresh course, and I definitely need to find something online that can be extremely competitive.”

So I just checked on an online course. I purchased it. I started taking it, and I started meeting all these great people online. Then all of sudden, Michel Bouit came on board, on the emails. He sent a massive email about this trip that he was thinking to do somewhere in September, if I’m not mistaken. I don’t remember the right month. I think it was April.

I said, “You know what? This is amazing. I’m going to jump into it. I need to know what this is all about.” And that’s where we met!

Kirk Bachmann: I just love it. I was telling Gretchen, my wife, that we were chatting today. She got so excited. We all had so much fun. It was a whirlwind. Somebody has to do it. Someone has to go to Nice and go to three restaurants a day for ten days.

Antonio Perez: Exactly.

Kirk Bachmann: And I miss Michel Bouit.

Luis! Chef Luis, it’s so nice to meet you. It’s so nice to have you on the show today. First and foremost, thank you for your service to the United States Navy. Really, really appreciate that. Congratulations on graduating from Escoffier with honors. Now your partner in crime next to you, I’m sure you guys are up to a lot of good and some no good.

I can’t wait to hear about your journey. So many students listen to the show and watch the show. It’s such a point of pride. Thank you, thank you very much for joining us.

In the intro, we mentioned really quickly, Antonio, that you are a Disciple. For our guests again, remind us when you became a Disciple and what that means to you?

Antonio Perez: The Escoffier history has been around since the beginning of my career, cooking in informal restaurants as a young boy. Then when you aspire to become a professional, that name was still hitting each one of the dishes that we were trying to replicate. As you know, there’s no Escoffier book with pictures.

Kirk Bachmann: It’s a lot of reading. It’s a lot of reading.

Antonio Perez: It’s a lot of reading. I do remember having those books as a point of reference. There was a moment while I was living in South America, I decided turn…I made the great, [great thing [00:06:47] Things are very affordable in the way of launching a book in South America because of the materia prima – everything related to the paper and boards and the wiring of the book. If I don’t use this opportunity to put together the repertoire in “La Cuisine” in Spanish.

It’s a fantastic book that has helped me for the longest time. I always had it in a younger version, the 1960s version, in English. As you know, it has always either been in French, American English, or British English. “It would be so great if I can put this together, this gig, in Spanish.” I started by getting in contact with Michel Escoffier and everyone around. I said, “Look, I’m having this wild idea to turn this into Spanish.”

The answer was, “Are you crazy? What is going on? Who the hell are you?”

I said, “These are the motifs. This is very personal. It is a life token that I need to put in as an accomplishment.” And I launched a book.

When I launched the book, funny enough, a lot of copies started to get out of my hands. A lot of people started feeling very happy with the information. It’s history, and history itself in Spanish. You don’t depend more on translating and whatnot.

When Michel heard the story, while we were in France, he says, “We definitely need to introduce you as a Disciple of Escoffier because of what you just told us.” I was holding the book and I gave the book to him.

“Listen, Michel, this is for you.”

He said, “I don’t speak Spanish! I don’t speak Spanish! I have only French and English. What is wrong with you!”

What Ties Us Together is Food

Kirk Bachmann: Edit! Edit!

I love the story, though. Michel is so gracious. I want to talk a little bit about the two of you coming together. Luis, if you don’t mind, let’s first go back and talk a little bit about your going into the Navy, what your pursuit was, and where did culinary as an interest come into your life? And then, of course, Escoffier. Then, how did you guys meet and get this thing off the ground? We’ll talk about the studio in just a minute.

Luis Rodriguez: I came in the Navy in ‘82. Before that, when my parents got divorced, I was the oldest child, so I had to cook for the family. My mom would call me on the phone and tell me, “Do this now.” She would call me ten minutes later, “Have you done it?” “No, I forgot.” “Well, get it done now.” She’ll coach me cooking through the phone.

Kirk Bachmann: Oh, okay.

Luis Rodriguez: That awakened that thing. “I can do this. It’s not that hard.” It is, but it isn’t. Then I’m watching my dad. My dad always liked to cook.

Then, as an adult, joined the Navy. Being on your own. Traveling for the Navy to so many cultures, whether I was in Japan or Kosovo, Armenia, five years in Afghanistan, you see all the cultures and all the different food and dishes. You understand, then, what ties us together is the food. No matter what culture, language, nationality you are, you can always sit at the table and enjoy dinner.

Kirk Bachmann: That’s beautifully said. How long were you in the Navy all together?

Luis Rodriguez: I was in the Navy for 16 years, and then I did another 12-15 years traveling the world as a contractor. I got exposed to a lot of things.

Fast forward a couple years: the pandemic started and my wife said, “You’ve got nothing to do now you. You can’t do nothing. Why don’t you take a cooking class? You’ve always liked to cook.”

I said, “Well sure.” Just like Antonio said, I looked online, and the first thing that came up was Escoffier. Lo and behold, 20 days later I got approved and I started the course. As you know, the externship comes up. I didn’t know where to go. I said, “I’m not going to go to a fast food joint.” Sizzler or anything like that. I wanted to do something better. A friend of mine said, “I have a friend that has a restaurant in Old San Juan. I called him already and told him about you.”

I thought, “Oh, God.” I was scared. A real chef? “Oh, God, no!” I was sweating bullets. I went to see him.

Kirk Bachmann: And sweat more bullets.

Luis Rodriguez: I was sweating bullets. Yeah. I came out, I think we talked in an interview for like two hours. We just sat there and talked.

Antonio Perez: We talked. There was a frame of steel. Escoffier steel.

Luis Rodriguez: As you walk into the restaurant, above the bar – not that I was sitting at the bar – I would walk past the bar and I would look, and there was this frame of Escoffier’s head, face.

Antonio Perez: Like a silhouette.

Luis Rodriguez: Like a silhouette.

Kirk Bachmann: It was a sign!

Antonio Perez: That’s the thing. That’s the serendipity right there.

Luis Rodriguez: Yeah. Oh my God! This is a sign.

After I got my drink. I didn’t say that. After I got up from the bar, and we sat outside and talked.
We had so many things in common. We both have twin kids. We both have the Escoffier background. We both play guitar. We’re both left-handed. We’re at a certain age bracket.

Kirk Bachmann: A beautiful certain age.

Luis Rodriguez: Exactly. There were so many things I left with a really easy feeling that this was going to be good.

Then of course, I did the externship. One thing led to the other.

Antonio Perez: I think building the trust of finding someone that you can invite to be a partner into such an important space, one way or the other, you’re aspiring indirectly. There’s a moment in the career of a cook that there’s nothing wrong to play a la carte, but there’s nothing wrong with being attached to running a menu and making a living through it. It’s important. All those stages are important.

Most important is how can you move on from that…I’m [getting] a phone call and losing my point.

Kirk Bachmann: Let me help you, Antonio. To follow up with Luis, because the last time I saw you, you were in South America. In fact, you did the Escoffier pastry program from South America. When did Antonio move to San Juan? I missed that part.

Antonio Perez: That was somewhere around 2019 when I moved to Puerto Rico. I came over to work for a hotel, a change that they needed to work out on a blueprint.

Prediction, Vision, No Fear

Kirk Bachmann: As the chef. Did you come in as the chef?

Antonio Perez: Yes. Chef de cuisine for running this restaurant with a concept. It was more developing the concept. Then in the middle of it, this opportunity in another hotel in San Juan went through. Basically, I was developing projects in terms of consultancy, and at the same time, running them and being part of the theme.

You knew that coming back to Puerto Rico, you were aspiring to have a bigger agenda, something that can truly, truly keep you motivated in the culinary field. That’s when the Epicuro Culinary Center came true. After two years and a half of being on the island, I said to myself, “This is a moment, this is a turning point, because pandemia just gave us a lesson. Either do you reinvent yourself right now, or do you just lose the opportunity?”

All the planets were aligned. We had started the great conversation around it. Partnership is a funny thing, because it’s not around who can cut an onion better. It’s more around, “How can we complement each other with all the tags and everything that is related to open a business from ground zero?” That was it.

Next thing we knew, we were working, but at the same time we were seeing how to get it really fast. How can we open the doors before the end of the year? That’s when we opened, somewhere in December.

Kirk Bachmann: I love it.

Antonio Perez: It was prediction, vision, and no fear.

Sign Painter to Chef

Kirk Bachmann: Off and running. No fear. Very important. Good feedback.

Before we get into some of the details, I’d love to take a moment. Antonio, you can go first. This is always so important for our students to hear. Tell us a little bit about how you found your way into the culinary world? Luis shared a little bit already. What was your childhood like, and was food a big part of it? Your family. Was food a big part of the family?

Antonio Perez: I come from a big family on the west side of the island. The gathering was always there. As a young boy, I was very into manual arts. Calligraphy was very strong in my day-to-day. At a point, I was taking my little buckets of paint to school. If you were heading into a little colmado which is like a little grocery shop, if I saw that you did not have a sign, I would ask you kindly if you need a sign. I would tailor the sign of your grocery shop.

Kirk Bachmann: Oh wow!

Antonio Perez: Then until one of these days at the tender age of 13 years old, I did the sign of a restaurant.

Kirk Bachmann: Wow! Another sign!

Antonio Perez: When I finished a sign, the owner of the restaurant told me, “You can wash your hands.” I said, “I need to wash my hands.” “You can go to the kitchen and wash your hands.”

The moment that I stepped into that kitchen, that stainless steel Valhalla, I said to myself, “This is amazing! This is great.” My whole body shivers. Everything went into…you get a call. I think you get a call. This is just a craft that calls you.

That was my case. I had a very artistic background connected to a call from the kitchen. You start working very informal. It’s important to work in Mom and Pop restaurants. There is nothing wrong with it. Sandwiches, cafeterias, deli shops. That was my bouncing while I was doing high school and while I was doing early college. There was a moment that I said, “Wait a minute. No matter how far I go in life, there is always the kitchen.” The kitchen has always been the way I made my revenue, the way that I made my living, the way that I meet people, and the way that I can feel comfortable in hospitality. There’s got to be a way – because this was before the internet, Kirk. You need to understand.

Kirk Bachmann: I hear you. I hear you.

Antonio Perez: There’s got to be a way that I can polish this diamond, in my mind. I moved from the west side of the island to the capital, which is a big step for a countryside boy like me.

Kirk Bachmann: I want to jump over to Luis for just a moment. How long have you been, now, in San Juan with Antonio?

Antonio Perez: What is it? A year?

Luis Rodriguez: Yeah, about a year.

The Epicuro Culinary Center Experience

Kirk Bachmann: Oh, it’s been that long.

When you went to Escoffier, you were already in San Juan, so it made sense for you. I got it. Not to create any havoc. How many people are working for you? How do you divide the responsibilities? We’re going to dive into all the details, but I want to get all the drama out of the way first. Who’s in charge? I want to know who’s in charge? Okay.

Luis Rodriguez: Do we need to say more? *points to Antonio*

Kirk Bachmann: I love it. How big is the staff? How many people do you have working for you now?

Antonio Perez: It’s just us and my wife. My wife works everything around the front of the house. Everything that goes around. Wine pairing, serving, and at the same time, we also serve. We also have everything from the very beginning of opening the circle of service to the closing of the circle. It’s only the three of us.

Kirk Bachmann: We’re going to dive into all the details. The website is beautiful and fabulous.

For both of you, we’ll start with Luis, because you traveled a lot in the Navy. Then we’ll go to Antonio. I’m really curious: the travels in South America, Europe, Asia, the Caribbean, growing up. How did all of that come together to influence what you’re preparing on a daily basis and what you’re presenting to your guests?

Luis Rodriguez: I think for me personally, when I first land in a new country, the first thing that hits me is the smell. The smell of the place, whether there’s food or what have you. I think when we prepare dishes here. It’s Puerto Rico here. We also have our distinctive food smells. When we prepare dishes here at the Center, even though they are international dishes and we have certainly French/Escoffier influence, we like to add a hint of the tropics, whether it’s a little pineapple here, or a touch of coconut there. Not only fruit, but spice. That influences how we serve, how we present, and how we prepare each dish.

Kirk Bachmann: On the website, there’s an area that really outlines for the guests what they can expect when they come. Maybe Antonio, you could talk a little bit about what’s involved in creating a five-course dinner that’s going to take two hours and there’s limited seating? What I love about it is that you’re controlling the environment. This is a show, right?

Antonio Perez: Yes. It has a script.

Kirk Bachmann: It has a script. Okay.

Antonio Perez: It does.

Kirk Bachmann: Luis, how often does it go off the script? Now and then?

Luis Rodriguez: I think I’m going to stick to the Fifth Amendment on that one.

Kirk Bachmann: Yeah. You probably should.

Luis Rodriguez: He’s sitting right next to me. I can’t say nothing.

Kirk Bachmann: No, I love it. Hopefully we can walk around in a little bit and see if we can get some film of the actual space. Walk me through the experience. I’m coming in with ten people. What does that feel like?

Antonio Perez: First of all, we have an engine of reservations. We will organize the whole week, the five days that we’re open. We will forecast it. We know exactly how the dynamics are going to be, and how we’re going to assign the efforts of the day. If we have a cooking class on the day, we need to have also a bracket for turning around the place for the chef’s table at dinnertime.

We have two services: in the morning cooking classes, and then we have a time bracket to organize the place, and then we have the chef’s table on the same spot. That itself, you need to understand the forecast and be very organized with all the reservations. You need to be also tailoring every dietary needs. We sit around: vegetarian, vegans, mollusk-free, gluten-free, everything that is a requirement. We set that up on the piano and we make sure that we feel completely ready for service, that we are completely committed for that service.

The menus, it is market-driven. When we say market-driven, we keep certain things as a format of a business. It cannot be completely, 100 percent improvised. I have to make sure that we have a great appetizer with shellfish, that we have a great appetizer with vegetables, that we have a great appetizer with a game. When we talk game, we can think about a duck, a pheasant, anything that can be connected into the enthusiasm of the international cuisine. That is a moment in the middle of the menu that we take advantage of. Definitely, that’s when history comes abroad, when the travels and the experience of working with these dishes in the past. None of them are improvised. One way or the other, I have played them before. I have mastered them before. It’s something that when it comes, when you put them together, Kirk, it makes you feel that all the years you have put into your life into mastering the recipe, all the years that you have seen trial and error. All the years that you have been going through what works and what doesn’t work. We want to make sure that these fine dishes wrap a certainty, something that is mature, that is pure, and that it makes sense.

Preparation for Seamless, Memorable Experience

Kirk Bachmann: So well said. What a beautiful elevator speech! I’m going to take this opportunity to pop over to Luis. You spend a good amount of your career in the military. Very disciplined and very organized. Mise en place, a big part of your DNA. Everything Antonio just said is such a beautiful message for students. Let me repeat. He said: Being ready for service. Preparation. Mise en place. Local menu. A variety. You talked about history and travel. You talked about the experience for your customer. We can’t say it any better. That’s what we’re trying to teach our students who want to go into the industry.

As a mature graduate of Escoffier who comes into this beautifully serendipitous opportunity, Luis, I’d love to hear, in your words, through your lens, through your eyes what that experience is for the customer?

Luis Rodriguez: For the customer, they’re going to see something that is not improvised. They are going to have an experience. We’ve had so many people here. As a matter of fact, I think everybody that’s come here has used the same word. “This is an experience. We didn’t come here just to eat. We’re having a great experience.”

The preparation and mise en place, everything that goes behind making a plate, a dish, the menu reflects on the experience the customer has. They take something that, while it’s hard work, it takes a lot to create and a lot to execute. It’s seamless when they see it in front of us. We’re preparing it and serving it, talking about. It’s seamless. It’s very simple to have a great experience. That’s the best thing that the clients take away from our service. It’s a beautiful experience.

Kirk Bachmann: You can feel the pride. I absolutely love that.

Again, another story to tell from a lesson perspective. Antonio, you’re back in San Juan. You’re working with another group. Can you walk us through a little bit more detail about how did this opportunity come about to create a space where people can come into a very scripted experience. It’s almost like going to the theater. Was this something that you mapped out earlier? Was this a vision, or did you stumble upon this? What’s involved? I can just tell by the backdrop that it’s an absolutely stunning space. Talk a little bit about it. It’s not easy to put something like this together.

Antonio Perez: First of all, I have to say that I do like places that sometimes it’s the ambiance that traps you and makes you feel like you want to go back into that place. I always wanted to have a place that I can be myself. It’s very important. It’s nothing that comes egocentrically speaking. It’s about that you can share openly when the guests are in front of you. Either you’re catching up with something that happened 20 years ago. You want to talk about a country that they also visited. They tried that dish. Definitely talk about the neighbors that came the other night, and now they’re here and that’s why they wanted.

You always open a connection. There is a connectivity with the guest. It is a luxury nowadays. I always wanted to be part of that. I’ve seen in the past concepts…when we were in France, remember the Moulin de Mougins? What a wonderful place! Unforgettable.

Kirk Bachmann: Bouillabaisse, yeah.

Antonio Perez: We came in, and the oasis with the bouillabaisse from scratch. These are places that you kept them in your heart because you learned something. One way or the other, you were part of the creative process. You were part of that recipe that someone has [broken] it down for you. When you come here, I put one of these speakers on. I start breaking down the dish. Why is it called exqueixada. We’re going to guide you through this ceviche because we know Peruvian ceviche, we know Ecuadorian ceviche and we know Chilean ceviche. We know all the types of ceviche. Everything around the world of that particular dish, the variation, the fusions, and all that. One way or the other, you get the attention of everyone, but you’re not intruding into their space. People also use the space to deliberate gastronomy, to deliberate that moment. It is an investment.

That is a fantastic opportunity for me as a chef to feel completely that you’re willing to spend true time, not lip service, true time with the guest from the very beginning that they sit. That itself, Kirk, it was a motivator for me to say, “How can I put this gig together? It doesn’t have a back of the house. Everything happens right here.” You need to have the day in schedules where all the dirt work, all the bracing, all the hot searing and the smoking happens behind the doors when there’s no one here. The assembling is a moment of finesse. It’s a moment where you can break down that dish.

In the future, we’re probably going to put videos in the back, on a screen here. This is how we make it complete.

Pay Attention

Kirk Bachmann: I love it. There’s been so much good social media content here in thirty minutes. Liberating gastronomy. Liberating gastronomy. I love it.

Luis, as a graduate, a career-changer, if you will, any advice for other culinarians coming through Escoffier who are thinking about doing something incredibly unique and different? A path for them to find an incredible, magical experience like you did?

Luis Rodriguez: I could sit here for an hour and talk about advice for the students. One of the things Antonio talked about was when we first connected, one of the things that joined us was that we loved to teach. I was an instructor before. We were always looking how to make things better, how to teach better. As I went through the school, I always thought, “If I were to tell people what to do or how to act or what they need to do, you need to get organized.” The best thing I can tell people, to your students, is to be organized. Be prepared. Do your mise en place. Don’t fall behind in classes. Talk to your chef instructors. They’re there for you. Pay attention. You need to really pay attention to what you’re being taught.

I actually talked to several students. They asked me, “Did your chef give you words of wisdom?” I’m like, “Oh yeah. Something he said to me, ‘The thing to me here, I want you to start our service with ten fingers and finish with ten fingers.’” They started laughing. “I’m not laughing. He told me that.” And it is true. You need to pay attention to your knife cuts. Keep your knife sharp. Pay attention.

Coming from a military background, that was always instilled in us. Not only military background, but what I did for the bomb disposal. You really have to pay attention to what you’re doing. Your precautions are different. Pay attention. Be prepared.

The Story of Little Escoffier

Kirk Bachmann: Focus, focus. Yeah. It’s great advice.

Antonio, there’s a beautiful little book. My son took it to school, “Little Escoffier.” Can we talk a little bit about that?

Kirk Bachmann: I don’t even know where you find the time. First of all, you translate “Le Guide” into Spanish. In your spare time, you put this children’s book together that is so fun. Tell us a little bit about that. It’s called, “Little Escoffier.” You can find it on Amazon. Hold it up again so everybody can see it.

Antonio Perez: It’s sold out right now. I need to work on the second edition.

Luis Rodriguez: My copy.

Kirk Bachmann: I love it.

Antonio Perez: I became a daddy of twins somewhere in 2012. Am I saying that right?

Kirk Bachmann: You better get it right. So they’re ten.

Antonio Perez: Somewhere around there. They are twelve right now.

Luis Rodriguez: 2010.

Antonio Perez: 2010. Thank you. I hope they don’t see this and have a fit.

Kirk Bachmann: You better get it right. So they’re twelve. Okay.

Antonio Perez: Exactly. Funny. If I cut a sea bass, I know it is going to be 180 grams. I would never fail on that one. What’s happened to me now?

The thing is that they started to ask me, “Hey Daddy, you always come dressed up in white?” I was explaining, breaking down. And I said, “Wait a minute. There’s no kitchen tale or kid’s tale, bedside story that can talk about the craft of the chef.” I’ve always been wandering. The thing about the crafting and the drawings. I keep this silhouette.

There was a point that I started drawing the stomach of Escoffier. He has some hands and legs and he was his own body. He was coming out, and he would travel the whole world. He will go back in his sleep. I said, “Well, that’s very Tarantino of me.”

Kirk Bachmann: A little bit.

Antonio Perez: Then I had another idea that he had all the kids working. I said, “Well, that’s child labor. I shouldn’t go that way.”

Kirk Bachmann: Careful there.

Antonio Perez: I looked for the assistance of a child psychologist. I sat down and I said, “Listen, I have this story in my head and I need to tailor it. It’s all over the place. I need some guidance and I need to put it on the right track. I’m going to give you page by page and you tell me if I’m doing the right thing.”

Kirk Bachmann: That’s brilliant. Interesting.

Antonio Perez: I worked it around. The next thing I know, I wanted the book to be from the very beginning to the end not more than 14 minutes. That’s the time that you have.

Kirk Bachmann: To go to sleep.

Antonio Perez: To get them to sleep. So we are tailoring all those things. Then the drawings, I started to make the drawings in charcoal. And I have a friend, Chonillo he was able to also put them into life in the computer, in the digital world. One way or the other, I found the right people that I can share openly what was the idea behind it.

Then I needed a superhero. What better than Little Escoffier? I have to say, I had to debate that one with a child psychologist because it’s a kid with a mustache? Really? That was the only handicap. I said, “Please, keep it. Keep the mustache.”

Kirk Bachmann: Have you watched the Simpsons? I’ve read that book to my children’s classes. It’s absolutely brilliant.

Antonio Perez: Beautiful story. It’s a beautiful story. An easy story. When he goes to the field, and you see the background, framboise trees. You see all these bullet points around the things that he was dreaming. You can see the peach melba. You can see the grandmother in the market. You don’t have probably enough time to catch up with the story of the life of Escoffier, but the graphics are there.

Kirk Bachmann: I’m going to talk to my friend Ryan in the purchasing department. When it’s back in stock, when you have the second edition, we’re going to put it on the Escoffier store. We’re going to promote it as much as we can.

Antonio Perez: Thank you. That would be great.

Luis Rodriguez’s Ultimate Dish

Kirk Bachmann: A couple of things. We’re running out of time a little bit. But what’s really, really important. Luis, you can go first. The name of the podcast is The Ultimate Dish. I can’t wait to hear what you both share. We always ask our guests to share what they believe, in their mind, is the ultimate dish. This could be a memory. This could be something that you served last night. This could be something that your family served. We would love to hear what you consider – Luis first – the ultimate dish.

Luis Rodriguez: Oh boy. Put me on the spot on this one.

Kirk Bachmann: This will be graded, by the way.

Luis Rodriguez: I’ll write the narrative down, and then I’ll send it to you.

I think as far as an ultimate dish, coming from Puerto Rico, we have a strong family unit here. Every Christmas, everything revolves around the kitchen. For me to go in for one dish, it wouldn’t be fair. I think the Christmas family dinners that we have where everyone pitches in making – whether it’s pasteles or rice and beans, or the different Christmas dishes that we have. To me, that’s something that stands out a lot.

Secondly, just to bring it more real or relevant, we have been making as our dessert a chocolate souffle. To me, that’s really impressive. It’s a good way to finish the dinner. Not only that, but we’re making it in front of the people. When we take the tray and put it in the oven, and we turn the light on, and they can sit here and watch it. They’re paying attention. “Is it rising?” We’re like, “Of course it is. But you’re not looking.”

Kirk Bachmann: Don’t touch the oven. Don’t touch the oven.

Luis Rodriguez: We don’t look at it. But they do. They look at it. It’s a matter of pride that we know without looking that that souffle is going to come up and it’s going to come out great. It will taste great. People just love that. That’s almost like a mainstay now to close the dinner.

Kirk Bachmann: And it’s part of the experience. I love that. And you don’t see souffles as much because of all the reasons you mentioned. They’re dangerous.

Luis Rodriguez: People always said, “You’re going to make a souffle in front of us, right now? Usually you’ve got to order at the beginning of the meal.” We’re like, “No. We’re going to do it right now. We’re going to leave the light on, too.” It blows their mind.

Antonio Perez: To be proud of your cooking skills. It’s about something that you don’t want to lose the opportunity to share the cooking skills of something that has history and something that can bring also smiles. You have no idea how many people come with a long face, and they leave with a fantastic smile, side to side.

Kirk Bachmann: It sounds like there’s a lot of…

Antonio Perez: We’re healers.

Kirk Bachmann: You’re healers. You could call the restaurant Transparency, though. There’s no secrets. You’re doing everything in front of the guests. That is a reason. That’s a cause to smile.

Antonio, what’s the ultimate dish?

Antonio Perez’s Ultimate Dish

Antonio Perez: I love rice dishes. Melosos rice. The dishes where the rice is cooked from the foundation to the finishing part of it. Fantastic. Anything. A think a zucchini blossom, fried. You got me there. That’s my stuff with a wonderful cheese. Then tempura-ish.

Kirk Bachmann: Both of you came with simplicity. That’s what I love. Very simple dishes. It doesn’t have to be elaborate.

Antonio Perez: And also a good terrine.

Kirk Bachmann: Now you’re getting elaborate.

Antonio Perez: One or the other.

Luis Rodriguez: I was going to say cassoulet, but I was staying away from the cassoulet.

Kirk Bachmann: Gentleman, thank you so much. Don’t hang up yet. I’m going to sign off to our guests. It was so lovely to see you guys again. I’m so happy for you. I think you’re going to hear from us a little bit more. I’d love to follow the journey. If there’s other Escoffier students who might find their way to you for externships, wouldn’t that be a lot of fun?

Antonio Perez: Awesome. I do have to say that every time that someone opened the door for me to become a better cook, I will never, ever forget that moment. Right now, I’m on the statue of life. I’m at that position in life where I only need to hear that you have the passion, that you have the eager[ness], that you want to be part of this lifestyle. That’s the best that I can take from this world, from this life.

Kirk Bachmann: I love it. Thank you so much. Best of luck. We’ll see if we can pull a camera up and walk around a little bit. Enjoy 2023. Okay. Thanks gents.

Luis Rodriguez: Thank you. Appreciate it.

Antonio Perez: Thank you, Chef.

Kirk Bachmann: Appreciate it, Chefs.

And thank you for listening to the Ultimate Dish podcast, brought to you by Auguste Escoffier School of Culinary Arts. Visit escoffier.edu/podcast, where you’ll find any materials mentioned during the podcast, including notes, links and other resources. You can also browse other episodes and subscribe.