Recovery Discovery | The Modern Science of the 12 Step Tradition (w/ Dr. Jorja Jamison)

In this illuminating episode of Recovery Discovery, host DeAnn Knighton and co-host Craig sit down with Dr. Jorja Jamison, psychologist, professor, and author at the Hazelden Betty Ford Graduate School of Addiction Studies, to explore how modern neuroscience and psychology shed new light on the 12 Steps of recovery.

Dr. Jamison shares her personal journey — from training as an addiction psychologist while secretly battling her own substance use, to finding long-term recovery and discovering how the science of the brain validates what the 12 Steps have taught for decades: that healing happens through connection, meaning-making, and change.

Together, they unpack how each step reflects a core psychological or biological process — from the brain’s wiring and reward circuitry to the emotional release that comes from vulnerability and community.

Listeners will gain a robust new understanding of how surrender, honesty, and service are not only spiritual concepts but also neurochemical and psychological realities that support lasting transformation.

Jorja's Website

Jorga's Book: Wounded Healing 

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Music and Audio Production by Katie Hare.
https://www.hare.works

Transcript

DeAnn Knighton: 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome back. It’s DeAnn. I’ve got a bit of a cold today, but we’re going to power through. I’m so excited for today’s guest. We’ve talked before about the power of the AA program and how connection and compassion can create hope. But we’ve never really dissected the 12 Steps in this way. Our guest today is Dr. Jorja Jamison, psychologist and professor at the Hazelden Betty Ford Graduate School of Addiction Studies, and also one of my professors during my master’s program.

Jorja Jamison: 0:30

Thank you, DeAnn. My story is a bit of a winding one. I started studying psychology in 2001, got involved in addiction counseling early on, and eventually came to Hazelden Betty Ford as a postdoctoral fellow. For six years, I worked as a professor while secretly struggling with my own addiction. I finally found recovery in 2015 and just celebrated ten years sober.

Craig Knighton: 0:50

Congratulations, that’s amazing. I can relate in a different way—recovering from cancer changed how I saw everything, including my work and identity.

DeAnn Knighton: 1:00

Thank you for sharing that, Jorja. I think so many listeners can relate to that tension between professional identity and private struggle. Let’s start at Step One. How do you understand it from your perspective as a scientist and someone in recovery?

Jorja Jamison: 1:20

For me, Step One is biological. Some brains react differently to substances. Our reward and impulse systems light up faster, and our reasoning centers shut down sooner. Accepting that wiring is key to recovery.

Craig Knighton: 1:30

That explanation really resonates—it’s logical, grounded in biology, and removes the shame from the idea of powerlessness.

DeAnn Knighton: 1:40

Let’s move to Step Two and Three, which talk about higher power and surrender. How can we understand those concepts in modern terms?

Jorja Jamison: 1:50

Humans are wired to make meaning and to connect. You can call that spirituality, science, or simply biology. Steps Two and Three are about realizing we need help and committing to change, whatever form that help takes.

DeAnn Knighton: 2:00

I love that. It’s not about religion—it’s about recognizing that what we know isn’t enough and being open to new input.

Craig Knighton: 2:10

And that surrender, whether to a higher power or just the process itself, changes your brain chemistry—it literally calms the system.

DeAnn Knighton: 2:20

Exactly. Let’s move into Steps Four and Five, where we take a personal inventory and share it.

Jorja Jamison: 2:30

Those steps mirror cognitive behavioral therapy. We examine resentments, fears, and relationships to uncover core beliefs and patterns, and by sharing them, we dissolve shame and rebuild connection.

DeAnn Knighton: 2:40

That’s such a healing way to frame it—telling our truth in a safe space and finding that we’re still lovable.

Craig Knighton: 2:50

That’s powerful. And what about Steps Six and Seven—becoming ready and asking for change?

Jorja Jamison: 3:00

These steps are about readiness and humility. We honor old coping mechanisms that once kept us safe but now hold us back, and we invite new ways of being.

DeAnn Knighton: 3:10

Beautifully said. That’s self-compassion in action.

Jorja Jamison: 3:20

Exactly. Then Steps Eight and Nine are about accountability and repair. We take responsibility and make amends when possible. It’s empathy in practice.

Craig Knighton: 3:30

It’s also about trust, right? When we repair, both people’s brains release oxytocin—it’s literal healing chemistry.

Jorja Jamison: 3:40

Yes, service and connection are deeply biological. Steps Ten through Twelve focus on maintenance, mindfulness, and giving back. These behaviors strengthen neural pathways that keep us balanced.

DeAnn Knighton: 3:50

I love that we can see recovery through a scientific and human lens—it’s inclusive, compassionate, and hopeful.

Jorja Jamison: 4:00

That’s the goal. Recovery is human—it’s where science, spirituality, and connection meet.