987. "Momentum Is An Art." ~ Michael Ovitz

In this episode, I want to change the way you look at momentum.

Most people think momentum is either luck or a formula—but it’s neither. Momentum is an art. And once you see it that way, you realize it’s controllable, even though it’s built on a lot of intangibles you can’t always measure or explain.

In this conversation, I break down how momentum is something you shape and create over time—and why that mindset keeps you out of a victim mentality. Because momentum is deceptive: you don’t know when it’s going to kick in and start working for you, and by the time you realize you’ve lost it, it’s already been gone for a while.

If you’ve ever felt stuck, frustrated, or like things should be working by now, this episode will help you see momentum—and your role in it—completely differently.

Enjoy the full conversation of Shane Parrish & Michael Ovitz https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/

Transcript

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All right. 3, 2, 1. Let's get it. I wanna share with you a piece that I heard from the conversation with Shane Parrish and Michael Ovitz. Michael Ovitz is a powerful deal maker. Uh, he's got a great book, who is Michael Ovitz? And he was, he was the who's who in Hollywood. With, uh, he represented, he had an agency, uh, that represented filmmakers and actors and just a really standup guy, very feared guy too. And he was recently owned Shane Parrish's podcast, the Knowledge Project. And I don't know, it was probably right around the. Hour and 18 minute mark. This is why I'm, you know, this is why I think you should listen to podcasts all the way through, because I can't tell you how many times I have been listening and thought I pretty much got the meat of the message. And then they say something at the very end and this was, you know, there wasn't, I don't know, it was probably 20 minutes left in the podcast and. Shane Parrish, like out of the blue, asked Michael Ovitz about how he thought about momentum and being in sales and also in life. I, I, I really, I really believe in momentum. And momentum is, you know, it's, it's a deceiving thing because when you, when you have it. You think it's gonna stay there forever. When you don't have it and you realize you don't have it, it's too late. You, you, you, you've lost it. I mean, think about that. When the times that you've lost momentum, you don't realize it's leaking the whole time. And then when you, when that tank is completely empty, that momentum tank, you're like, oh my God. And it takes what? It takes weeks. And so much mental and physical and emotional effort to get that thing going again, that is so much easier to just keep it going than get it going. So for context, let me read to you what Shane Parrish asked him. He said, if you're gonna teach someone how to get momentum, what would you tell 'em? And Ovid said something that just made me like, oh, I gotta share this. I gotta unpack this first and then I gotta share it. He said, I don't think of momentum as science. I think of momentum more so as an art form. And when I got to thinking about this, like when you think of momentum, like. As some sort of science or, you know, it's a formula. You do this, step one, step two, step three, and you'll get this. It, it, it doesn't work that way. Momentum truly is an art form because there are so many tangibles, or I'm sorry, there are so many intangibles to it that have to pull from so many areas. To re that, that, that, that's why it's called Creating an Art. And I think, you know, I got to thinking about this. I think when you look at momentum, more so as an art form instead of some ritual or formula, whatever you wanna call it, you know, paint by the numbers. I, I think when you look at it with some sort of formula and it doesn't work, then you blame someone else or you become this victim. But when you look at it more so as an art form, momentum is an art form. It's really going to change not only your approach. But also your involvement in it as you go along the way. Momentum is not something you can teach. You only learn from experience, and that's what's tough. Like one of my guys can just be at the bottom of the barrel. I I can't do it for you. I can't get your sales back going again. I can only tell you of some things that you need to pull in, but the rest you gotta experience. You gotta go through it because when you're building momentum, there is some uncontrollables to this thing. There are some intangibles to this thing in the form of like. Acceptance. You have to accept acceptance. Doesn't mean you're okay with the situation. It's just you identify with the situa. Okay? So there is, especially when you're building momentum and you have like none, you know, it's like, it's like the world starts to fuck with you a little bit. It's like your industry really starts to just kind of kick you while you're down. You're like, bro, are you kidding me? And so there's a form of acceptance that comes. With momentum. There is, there is surrender to that. Like you really have to like surrender. And I, again, I don't mean, I don't mean surrendering the fact that it is what it is. I'm not saying that it's more so you have an acceptance. Okay? You acknowledge it, you surrender to it. Look, it can't stay this way forever. That's what I mean by surrender. But it also requires momentum. Does it Requires extreme focus, concentration. And while you're doing that, you have to have the patience. My God, that's so hard. You gotta have the patience that it's going to come together when it comes together. And that's the thing about momentum. You don't know when it's gonna kick back in. You have no idea. You don't know when it's gonna slingshot for you. And so many times, if you think about it, I, I wish we had little momentum needles on our chest. Like I could walk up to somebody who's just having a down or myself. I could just look in the mirror and be like, alright, man, we're almost in the green. You don't know. And so, bro, sometimes it's like you're doing 35 things and. Not getting anything. You're doing 50 things and it's like, oh my God. But you have to stay on course. You don't get erratic. You don't swing for the fences. You accept, you surrender. You have focus. You stay in alignment. You're patient, and then you have faith. Faith that while I exercise this curiosity and creativity. I gotta shape this thing along the way. And I do believe, like when you look at this as an art form, think about when you're creating art, when you're creating something, a work of art. I think when I write is. Is a form of art. I don't know where it's going. There are things that I have started off with hell, I've done episodes like this. It has start hell, this one's going like this. So I have a general thought of where I'm going with this. But then the art is you just, it is the acceptance. It is the surrender. You just, you just go with the flow and you shape it. Along the way, I believe the aspects of momentum, I think momentum's, controllable, there's a lot of intangibles, but you can control it. And what I mean by that is you can shape it, you can feed it, you can work it, those things you can actually control. So Ovid said there are, there are some aspects of momentum. When you look at it as an art form that you have to, you have to participate. Momentum's not gonna just come to you. She's not interested. As a matter of fact, you can go to her, you can beg her. She ain't coming to you until you're just relentless. You're focused, and you're just like a dog on a bone with this thing and be like, I'm staying with this thing. See, because momentum tries to head fake you. She tries to say, oh, oh, you want to get back in these pearly gates again? Well, I gave it to you before and you lost it, so I'm not gonna give it to you. So easy this time, and you gotta work hard for it. This is why I say the, it's not a one-to-one ratio. It's not linear, it's not a straight shot, bro. It's just like, and it really shakes your confidence. And it really is like, oh my God, really? And it's like, sometimes it gets worse before it finally gets better, but will you stay the course? And he said, Ovitz did. He said, number one, you gotta understand that momentum when you're building it. It takes hard, industrious work. I, I like that. Those three words right there, hard. Industrious work. You gotta knuckle up mentally, emotionally, creatively. It's, it's not easy. The doorway, you could see the door, you could be at the doorstep. The door ain't opening. That's, that's why I say momentum fucks with you. She does, but once she opens up. Yeah, you gotta, like it says in the Bible, keep knocking and you'll eventually get in. I'm paraphrasing, of course, but you gotta knock. And I, maybe that's what the Bible was saying. Maybe the Bible was talking about momentum. You gotta keep knocking. Are you persistent? Will you keep coming to momentum's door knocking, applying the effort, the focus, the concentration, keeping your big lips. Not pouting and just, and just put in the work because when she opens up that door, it's so much easier to keep momentum going than get it going. And that's what's crazy. It's like, why do we, why do we let ourselves get back into these holes again? It's like, dude, there's so many times like, oh my God, you realize how hard it was to get to this spot and you. You just, you let your focus up. You, you, you got complacent and you just let up and you gave it back. This is why you gotta feed Big Mo every day, man. She's constantly hungry. So anyway, so he, he said, number one, it takes hard industrious work. Number two, building your momentum. It takes deep education in your field. Deep education in your field. And I like that because you gotta get outta this wing it stage. Leave the wings to Buffalo Wild Wings, okay? Leave that to the appetizers. You cannot wing it in your field. And maybe that's what you've been doing, so you've had some luck. And because of a little bit of the luck and your experience, you kinda lean on that. But bro, you can't just lean on your experience because your experience is only going to take you so far. You've got to get some new skills, adaptive skills, to things that are constantly changing. Again, it's an art, how you get there and how you. How you achieve the deep education in your field, bro, that's up to you how you do it. The offline hours, the online hours, like whatever, there's, I, I could, I could, I would love to sit down with you and tell you, like, this is why I tell salespeople, like, I can't, I can teach you the mechanics of sales, but the art form of sales. I can't teach that. I could tell you what I did along the way. But you gotta figure out your own path. There's no, everybody's way is different. Same thing with momentum. Same way with deep education in your field. So you gotta ask yourself like, what am I shying, shying away from? What am, what do I not know as well as I should? Like you delegate that, are you Tap dance around it, like the momentum leaks when you stop learning. It does, and it's, you just have to imagine like, it's like it's this big leak. So look at it like this. Look at momentum as like a big balloon. And so initially when you have no momentum, that balloon is flat, right? But every day you show up, you put in the effort, you put in the reps, you confront nothing. Everything counts. Everything counts. You may not see the results, but everything counts good or bad. So when you're doing this, the effort, the focus, the concentration, the surrender, you're keeping your mouth shut. You have the acceptance, you have the faith. You're doing these things. Every time you're putting a little bit more air in that balloon, that momentum's building, and then one day. You reach this tipping point and all the results, all that stored up effort cascades out. And so what started off as a 50 to one ratio, I'm doing 50 things, getting one time. The results, it flips the other way you go, you do one thing and get 50 times the results and it's like opportunities and, and. In circumstance. I mean, they just like, bro, you're just, you're on a hot, you're on a hot streak. But the problem is you believe you're own bullshit. You, you believe that it's gonna stay this way. Everything that you're achieving right now. When it's good is not as a result of today. It's everything that you've done up to that day and it finally reached this tipping point. And that's the tricky part because let's go back to the balloon. The effort, you're blowing up that balloon when it comes to momentum, and that balloon is a momentum balloon. You don't realize that balloon will always have a tiny pinhole in it. Momentum never stays full. It's always seeping. That's what he's doing. And so you're putting in the effort, but because you're so consistent in that focus and you're on track and you're just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, even though there's a tiny pinhole that is seeping out because you're feeding it every day, you don't realize it, you, you don't realize it until you believe your own bullshit. And you stop feeding the momentum. And what was a pinhole? Actually, that hole opens up in all of your effort, all of your progress, most of your results, if not all, and then some, you gave it back, and by the time you realize it, it's too late. You gotta start all over again. So get it back Hard industrious work deep education in your field. The third part of its talks about is it takes deep education in the peripheries. I was, I was sure, hoping I was gonna say that word right? Peripheries of your field. The peripheries are like, think about your peripheral vision. It's stuff from the side. You're not really looking at it, but you can see it. Like something comes flying up at you in your periphery. Boom. You take notice. So I, I find that interesting that he said the peripheries of your field. And so these are the edges. The outliers, the uncomfortable zones, these things, you know, most people, if you think about it, most people kind of stay in the safe lane. Right. You stay, you stay in the right hand lane in life. You got some, you got some success going. Everything's okay. I'm fine. Go back to listen to that episode a few episodes ago. I'm fine. You're, you're in the fine zone, but you have it redefined the fine. Okay? So you're in this fine zone and what happens is, is you just, your momentum's just quietly dying out. So when you, when. When you deeply learn in the peripheries of your field too, you're going to areas that aren't mandated necessarily. Like you can get through a day, you're experienced enough, you can tap dance through, but you're willing to do these things. And, and let me tell you this, there of low consequence too in most parts because they're voluntary. So if you start pushing you, you play in those outer bands a little bit. You play in the edges a little bit, but good news is you can come quickly back to your safe zone when you need to. But I would say just a beat or two longer stay out there, whether it's you're trying something different, whether you're learning something different, whatever that is, remember, this is all the toolkit that you need for building momentum. Hard industrious work, okay? So going to the peripheries of your field is hard. It is, it tries to jack with your confidence. It tells you that fight or flight kicks in. You ain't fighting, you're fighting, you're turning back and going to the safe zone. Nope. I'm gonna stay here for another beat or two. I'm gonna stay here for another three calls. I'm gonna stay here for another 10 minutes, whatever. And this will deepen your focus and this will actually open up your peripheries and when you have a wider landscape. You have mo more momentum as well. And then the last part he talks about is, um, knowing your numbers. He said it a little bit different where he said it's asking a question to yourself like, who's beating me? And I think that takes, that takes. That takes confronting, that takes some honesty to yourself. Like you can sit here and explain away like the economy or the banks or, uh, you know, your boss or coworkers or like, you can, you know, unfairness like you can, Hey, that's all that's all explained and it's, you know what, it's probably all true, yet it's not true. It doesn't help you. So that last part where he's saying to ask the question like, who's beating me? This is where you confront the numbers. Like, what am I not doing enough of? What have I stopped doing? What was I once doing? Go back to basics. Go to the episode right before this. That was what, 9 85 about the basics. Going back to the basics. That's what I'm talking about. So what are you not doing enough of? What are you avoiding? What are you stopping short of? What are you not confronting? What are you not challenging? What have you stopped pushing? Okay. This is, this is the part where you, you, you've gotta, you've gotta build the momentum. But what I'm trying to really emphasize on is you want to sustain momentum. Now, there's another piece that he did not talk about. But I do want to add, you've gotta suspend judgment when you're building momentum. Actually, I would tell you, you need to suspend judgment from here on out. And bro, I get it, especially in sales, that is very, very hard to do, especially in entrepreneurship. It's very, very hard to do, and this is why you should. Practice the creativity and the curiosity aspect every day, like the curiosity, just quick little games with yourself instead of making a statement, turning into a question without judgment. I really open, I mean like teach me something and then the, the creativity. What do you have when you lack the resources? Can you get resourceful? Like just play within that field? This will help suspend that judgment because a lot of times we judge what we do or don't have and we use that judgment and we try to swing for the fences. Especially like think about when you're trying to build momentum. You wanna hurry up and get it back, right? I mean, let's get outside of the sales realm for a second. Let's go into what we all want. You wanna be a little skinnier, you wanna lose weight, you lost momentum. I mean, think about when you had it going on, you were going to. Uh, you were going, uh, you know, every day at 5:00 AM you were there at the gym or you were doing CrossFit or you were doing all kind of shit. Okay? Now you're not doing it anymore. You lost momentum. What do you try to do? You try to get it back in one fatal weekend and you blow your shit out. No, but you try to get it back. So you, you, you swing for the fences. And bro, this, this goes across all kind. I mean, this goes across our faith, this goes across our relationships. This goes across our finances. Again, the, the fitness. It goes in our jot, like we have these swing for the fence kind of moments. And let me tell you this, there are occasions very rare, but we've all experienced it. Where in a certain field, your faith, your family, your fitness, your finances, your fulfillment, one of those areas, many of those areas you can get lucky. Uh. It is possible to get luck. Okay? And so you have this swing for the fence moment. Okay, well, I'm working with this customer. I'm just like, I ain't got shit. I'm gonna throw it out there. And you zing it and it actually worked and you're like, oh my God, I made the biggest commission ever. Wow, that works. No, you were lucky. But the thing about luck is you cannot sustain luck. You can't not like that when you're building the momentum. Luck is a part of that, but luck is an accelerant. It's a byproduct. It's a bonus that you get. You can't depend on luck. Luck is gonna show up when it shows up, but she only shows up if you sustain. Okay? I don't depend on luck. Luck is not a part of my success. It's not, it's an accelerant. It can, it can speed me up, but I'm not waiting for it to show up. She's gonna show up whenever the hell she shows up. That means you gotta do the hard industrious work. You gotta deeply learn your field. You gotta deeply know the peripheries of your field. You gotta suspend your judgment and then you gotta confront. You gotta ask the hard questions. Momentum does not disappear overnight. You think it did? It doesn't. If you think about it, it comes from two different things. Momentum, the loss of momentum comes from complexity and complacency. I. Yeah, we talked about complacency earlier. You got it going on. Then all of a sudden you, you let your guard down, you sleep in a little bit more. You come in a little later, you leave a little earlier. You like, there's things you and it is just seeping out or go back to the balloon. Can you hear your balloon hissing? So there's the complacency, but then there's also the complexity. I wanna pull on that thread real quick. The complexity also sabotages you. Okay? So that that disrupts your momentum as well, because you get too fancy because you feel like you've gotten efficient. And why is it with efficiency that we feel like that we have to do like more of it? So we, we get things streamlined where we actually have some free time. Why do we feel like we have to free with any extra time? We have to fill that void. Why? We don't, and all hands raised. Okay? But the complexity is sabotages you, which is why people gotta go back to the basics again. Go back and listen to episode 9 85. This really ties in. Well with this one, 'cause you get with the complexity, you get too fancy, you add too much, you believe in your own headlines, like all this stuff. Just keep these things simple. It's gonna take hard work. I'm gonna constantly study my field this's, why I'm a fan of random reading every single day. Because it keeps me learned and keeps me primed. It's a, it's a small commitment of 15 minutes of reading, 15 minutes of writing, unpacking those thoughts, and then boom, go live it off to the races. It's not that, it's not that, it's not that difficult. It's very simple. We just, we make things way too complex. So let me bring this home. Momentum is always working. It is. It's either working for you or it's working against you. And momentum has zero to do with luck. It's not science. It is an art form. And when you look at it as an art form, this will keep you out of this victim mindset. Okay? You look at it as art form, it's yours, okay? It does take a lot of effort. It does take an investment in learning. It does take going to the uncomfortable zones. The outliers, the peripheries of your field. It does take that. When's the last time you did something for the first time? Okay. And then it takes the confronting, like, why am I getting beat? Why is this, why am I not don't? And it, it's all ownership. It can't lay the blame on like, what? When I ask that question, it's gotta do with me. Okay? Control the controllable shape this thing. And if you do that, it's gonna all come together. Gotta surrender to it. You gotta have acceptance, you gotta have focus, you gotta have concentration, you gotta have faith, and it's gonna come together. We've all experienced it. We've all lost momentum. We've all gained momentum. It's more sustainable than what we think, but sometimes we just, that's the point of this. I'm gonna put the, the, um, the episode link. To the, that, it's a great conversation and it may, uh, with Shane Parrish and Michael Ovitz, it, it may stimulate you to by the book, who is Michael Ovitz? Um, it's a good book. Um, and it really, he, he, he's really just. I mean, you, we, it's the who's who, like, who his personal friends are, you know, but it's a, it's a, it's a great appetizer. Uh, Shane Parrish and Michael Ovis, his conversation, it's great appetizer. Um, that kind of sets the table so that way you may want to read further, so that way in your random reading. You can add that to your list. Alright, let's get outta here. Thanks so much for being a part of What's your problem? The podcast. Please help get the show out, share it with someone else, someone needs this message. Alright, if I can help you with anything, you can go to my website, marsh spice.com. Bottom right is a mic from you to me. Leave me a a message. Let me know what's going on in your world. No hair but. I'm all ears. Love to hear from you. Also, you can, on some of your podcast app, you can actually send me a text message. It comes directly to my cell phone. Um, and so I'd love to hear from you as well. Leave me your email address'cause I can't text back. It doesn't give me that ability. Uh, but leave me an email message. I'll be sure that I, um, I shout you out. Alright with that. Remember, keep it simple, keep it moving. Never settle. Stay tough. Peace.