Women's Retirement Radio

Genie McGee of Fairway Independent Mortgage Company - How a Reverse Mortgage Might Play a Role in Your Retirement - Episode 41

November 22, 2021 Russ Thornton Season 2 Episode 25
Women's Retirement Radio
Genie McGee of Fairway Independent Mortgage Company - How a Reverse Mortgage Might Play a Role in Your Retirement - Episode 41
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode of Women's Retirement Radio, I'm joined by Genie McGee.

Genie is an expert in all things Reverse Mortgage.

In the past I've been very critical of reverse mortgages. Any time I see a celebrity pitching a financial product on TV, I think it's a red flag to be extra skeptical. And I have been.

However, reverse mortgages - when done right - offer a lot of additional choice and flexibility to homeowners in the right circumstances. So listen to our conversation and see if you don't learn something.

I know I did...

For more on Genie, please check out these resources:

Get in touch and let me know what you think or if you have any questions.

And thank you for listening.

Visit my website to learn more.

Disclosures

Russ Thornton:
Welcome to another episode of Women's Retirement Radio. I'm your host Russ Thornton. And today I am excited to introduce you to a friend and colleague Genie McGee. Genie is a loan officer with Fairway Independent Mortgage Corporation, and she focuses on, among other things, she focuses on helping people with reverse mortgages. And that's one of the things I wanted to have her talk about today. So Genie, welcome to the show.

Genie McGee:
Thank you for having me, Russ. Thank you.

Russ Thornton:
Yeah. So why don't, for folks that aren't familiar with you, why don't you take a moment and just tell us a little bit about who you are and what it is you do?

Genie McGee:
Yes. Genie McGee. I have been a reverse mortgage planner for the last 19 years, believe it or not. It's the only kind of loan that I've ever done. So I can only speak to reverse mortgages. I actually have a degree in design, so I have a creative side, but I fell into doing reverse mortgages 19 years ago when I visited a friend who I had met in Kenya, East Africa, and ended up going to Philadelphia to visit with him, and he was doing reverse mortgages and he piqued my interest. At that time, I came back, did a lot of research and he has become my mentor. He's still doing reverse mortgages in Philadelphia, and I fell in love with being able to help people and have been doing them every since.

Russ Thornton:
Well, that's super helpful. I appreciate the introduction. And I think Genie, most people are probably familiar with the term reverse mortgage, but I suspect many people probably don't understand exactly what it is, and perhaps just as importantly, don't understand what it isn't. I know people have probably seen some older celebrities pitching reverse mortgages on TV in the past. And I think there's a general level of skepticism around reverse mortgages, probably because they've probably seen some older celebrity personalities pitching them and talking about the pros and cons. So, I think it'd be helpful if you could just take a minute or two and talk to us a little bit about what a reverse mortgage is and then I'm sure that'll lead us into some other interesting discussions.

Genie McGee:
Absolutely. So interestingly, the reverse mortgage, people don't know has been around for over 30 years. It was actually signed into law back in 1988 by President Reagan. So it is an FHA mortgage, it's a mortgage. I mean, people try to make it to be more than what it is. It's actually a mortgage that's recorded in the county deed records. And we have started calling it a retirement mortgage, because it is a mortgage specifically for folks who are 62 years of age or older. And it allows them to do a variety of things. With the two categories, it either allows them to refinance their current home to do a reverse mortgage on that, and the reason they would do it is that with the reverse mortgage, there's no required monthly mortgage payments. So when you're in retirement, your largest line item in your monthly budget is usually your mortgage.

Genie McGee:
40% of retirees are still making a mortgage payment, which means that money is not being invested, that money is not being used for vacations and other things, they're creating equities with making a mortgage payment. So that's the one that most people hear about, the Tom Sellecks of the world recommends and has ads about, people use that to supplement their monthly income, to pay off a mortgage so they can retire, people use it to help either buy long-term care insurance or to set aside money for long-term care, should they need it, they use it so that they can be more efficient with their taxes, income taxes to have more money for their long retirement and even to build up a better retirement. So, even to, I'm sorry, not just a better retirement, but also to have a bigger legacy, believe it or not.

Genie McGee:
So people feel like if they could pay off that mortgage and divert those funds to other areas, they actually end up leaving more money for their heirs. The other way that people use it, and this area is really growing is that you can buy or build a house with a reverse mortgage. And I do a CE class teaching realtors about this because a lot of realtors don't know that this is possible if their client is 62 or older. They can list and sell the house that the client is in because the house that you buy in your thirties and forties often is not the same house you want or need in your sixties, seventies and eighties. When you buy a house in your thirties or forties and you have children, you need two stories often, you need lots of bedrooms and bathrooms.

Genie McGee:
So there's a lot of people in houses that no longer fit them and realtors who understand this can help list and sell that house, especially in a market like we're in now, that is a big, sellers market, right? So they're going to get top price for that house. And then whatever they net from that house after they pay off any mortgages and pay the realtor fees, they can use that as a one-time down payment toward the purchase of a new house or a new build, and then they don't have any mortgage payments. So the new house has paid a combination of half of it is from the down payment that the [inaudible 00:06:14] was bringing to the table from the sale of their previous house, the other half of it is the finance portion the reverse mortgage pays. So it's a win-win. They get a new house, they have the opportunity to not have to make mortgage payments. So you can make mortgage payments with reverse mortgage if you desire.

Russ Thornton:
So that's a helpful explanation, but it brings a couple of questions to mind. So in the first scenario, so you're not necessarily buying or building a home, you're maybe refinancing or using equity in your home to create additional income in retirement, let's say to just help with cashflow and expenses or maybe for the long-term care needs, et cetera. I know those are the couple of examples you gave. Does the home have to be paid off or can there still be a mortgage balance in place? Does an existing mortgage balance prevent the utilization of a reverse mortgage assuming the homeowner is age 62 or older?

Genie McGee:
No. In fact, many of the clients that I serve actually have a mortgage and they're wanting that mortgage to be paid off. So the reverse mortgage needs to be in the first lien position, and if they have a current mortgage, the only way another mortgage could be in first lien position is to pay it off. So there is a requirement when you do a refinance that you qualify for enough to pay off that mortgage that you have, or have the ability to bring the money to the table. So for example, I have a client who qualifies for almost enough to pay off her mortgage. She's trying to retire in December and she wants to get her expenses down as much as possible. She still has 18 years of mortgage payments and she's 70, right?

Genie McGee:
So she doesn't want to continue to make mortgage payments until she's 88. And so she's applied for a reverse mortgage, but her house didn't appraise for what she thought it would, and so she's bringing $20,000 to the table along with what the reverse mortgage provides to help pay off the current mortgage. So in her case, she didn't qualify quite for enough to pay off her mortgage, but she's willing to bring that $20,000 to the table because she'll pay about $20,000 in the next year and a half in mortgage payments anyhow. So she's comfortable doing that.

Russ Thornton:
So to use your client's example that you just told us about, she's 70, she has another 18 years of mortgage payments, she wants to eliminate those, she's got to bring a little cash to the table to basically meet the minimum refinance requirements for the reverse mortgage. I don't want to get too deep into the weeds, but, I hesitate to use the word technically, but technically what happens? So I guess I want to understand like practically does your company, for example, come in, basically take first lien on the house, pay the existing mortgage off, and then all the homeowners required to do is pay taxes and insurance going forward?

Genie McGee:
Correct. That's exactly right. So it is a mortgage. So it would be the same as her refinancing into a conventional mortgage to get a lower interest rate, right? So she, except for, if she did a conventional mortgage, she'd be responsible for the taxes, the insurance, the HOA fees, but she'd also be responsible for a monthly payment. In our scenario, she's still responsible as the owner for her property taxes, her homeowner's insurance, and her HOA fees, but with the reverse mortgage, she has an optional payment, so she can make payment or she can't, and she can decide not to. In her case, she probably will not, because she doesn't have to and she's trying to reduce her monthly expenses.

Russ Thornton:
So what, I guess, what makes those optional payments optional? Like what is a set of circumstances where the optional payments maybe aren't as optional? Or maybe asked a different way, is there a set of circumstances where a client does refinance using a reverse mortgage with the expectation that they won't have any future payments? Is there ever a scenario where they could have to make payments or I guess put another way, what's the risk or downsides, if any, or are there any surprises, surprises isn't the best word, are there any other considerations that people need to be aware of if they're considering a reverse mortgage?

Genie McGee:
Well, so you asked a couple of questions, and I'll say there's never a scenario where they have to make mortgage payments with the reverse mortgage. That's just the way the mortgage is designed. It's designed that you don't, that's why it's called reverse. Instead of them making mortgage payments and creating equity, they don't have to make mortgage payments, right? Until, so the loan is not due until one of four things happen. It's when they die, and if it's a husband and wife, it's when they both die. I did a [loan once with three sisters that live together.

Genie McGee:
So it's when everybody on the title and the mortgage dies. When they permanently move out, that's everybody. When they sell the house or the note says when they turn 150 years old. And the reason they require that 150, because the reverse mortgage is not a 15 or 30 year mortgage, it's a mortgage that's not due until the last [inaudible 00:12:14] no longer occupies the home. We don't know when that is, so we just add... We make them 150 and that's the date we put on the mortgage note to say that's when it's due.

Russ Thornton:
Got it. Got it.

Genie McGee:
And to your second question, in terms of, is there any surprises or anything that will come up? So the only thing that happens after you close on a reverse mortgage is you are required, every year they send out a little notice and ask, are you still occupying the home? Because you could only do a reverse mortgage on a home that's your primary residence. So they send out this, what we call an occupancy affidavit. And all you have to do is mark yes and send it back. That's the only requirement. And you are responsible for paying your property taxes and your homeowners insurance, because the only way you can foreclose on a reverse mortgage Russ, is to not pay your property taxes, right? So you can't foreclose for not making payments, but you could be foreclosed on because that's the terms of the loan. You have to keep up with your property taxes because the property tax lien is actually a lien that's superior to a mortgage. People don't know that, but it's that important to pay your property taxes.

Russ Thornton:
Right. But that's no different whether you're talking about a traditional mortgage or a reverse mortgage, correct?

Genie McGee:
Correct. Correct. Correct. Absolutely. Yes.

Russ Thornton:
Yeah. Interesting. So could you, and I know Genie, that... And in the last couple of months, one of my colleagues that I had suggested reach out to you, another financial planner here in the Atlanta area, one of her clients I know decided to go through the reverse mortgage process with you. And she's told me in no uncertain terms that it actually turned out to be really great solution for her clients. Although, she admitted like myself that before talking to you, she had some skepticism and some concerns about what a reverse mortgage is. And I, personally, I would attribute that largely to just ignorance on my part and not having a full understanding of the bells and whistles, pros and cons, ins and outs of how they actually work. So I'm really thankful that we can have this conversation and share it with my listeners and help educate them a little bit more about what a reverse mortgage is and where it might make sense for them or for maybe an aging parent or other friends and family members.

Russ Thornton:
So, I'm really grateful that we're having the conversation today Genie. You've already talked about some of this, but what would you say is the biggest challenge that you help people address or solve through your work?

Genie McGee:
Yeah. So the biggest challenge, you just mentioned it, Russ, and that is being uneducated about the product. And so, we and I, the company I worked for, Fairway Independent Mortgage, and I spend a lot of time talking to three main groups. We do a lot of education with financial planners, advisors. We have a two-hour CE for CFPs. We do a lot of education because financial planners, super smart people, understand money, they just don't understand mortgages, right? And they certainly don't understand the reverse mortgage. So we do a lot of education to them because they'd either... And there's a lot of buzz in the financial planning community about using equity as a way to supplement income, save on, do Roth conversion, they're doing a lot of these days using housing wealth to pay those taxes. So there's all these strategies that we educate financial planners on.

Genie McGee:
We also do a lot of education to realtors, especially in a market like now where the inventory is super low, and there's lots of people, as I mentioned earlier, who are 62 or older in houses they raised their children in and can't get up the stairs. I mean, really. I had a client call and said, "Genie, I have to get out of this house. I don't have a master on the main, and I struggle to get up the stairs every night." Right? That's a house that's no longer sitting down. Realtors don't know that. They don't know that they can list and sell a house, that's the transaction they get. They don't know that they can then help their older adult client get into a house that works for them and be able to buy double what they think they can.

Genie McGee:
For example, I had a client who was selling their house and all she netted after she paid her mortgage and her realtor fees is $150,000. And she's thinking, there's no way I can buy a decent house with $150,000 in the Atlanta area. And she's right. There's no way, right? And so, she's thinking, I don't want to, she was 70, she was thinking, I don't want to take on a 30-year mortgage in my seventies. I'm retired. I don't want to pay a mortgage until I'm 100, right? And so she's thinking she's stuck because all she has is $150,000 worth of equity, but for the realtor who understands the reverse mortgage, that lady can actually buy or build a $300,000 house, because the money goes much further. She's bringing the 150 that she nets from the sale of her current house that no longer fits her. We're bringing the other 150 to the table. She's in a house that fits her without a mortgage payment.

Genie McGee:
So that's the power of what we call the reverse mortgage for purchase or the HECM for purchase, realtors don't know that. So we do a lot of education to them to share with them how the product works, how it can benefit their clients, and how it can honestly allow them to serve more older adults. And then of course, we do lots and lots of education with realtors, I mean, with consumers who see the ads on TV, but the ads are only 30 seconds and they have so many questions and they don't understand. And so, education is the biggest challenge we face every day.

Russ Thornton:
Yeah. Well, you and I were talking before we hit record about the benefits and the opportunities to educate people, about where there's reverse mortgages or financial planning in general. There's just so many opportunities to help people get their questions answered, get better informed, so they can make more educated decisions about things and clearly reverse mortgages are no exception. So I appreciate that perspective. I know you've mentioned that you do spend a lot of time with financial advisors and planners like myself, along with realtors and other professionals, in addition to the educational services and work that you do for in consumers, but if you're thinking about like an individual. So let's say it's a, well, you've already stated. For reverse mortgage to be on the table, they have to be 62 or older.

Russ Thornton:
So let's say you're talking to a woman who is 65 years old. Could you paint a picture for us of like, who is an ideal candidate for a reverse mortgage? And I know the answer is probably, it depends, but could you give us an idea of who might think to themselves, maybe based on a description you're going to give us that maybe a reverse mortgage might be something they should consider.

Genie McGee:
Yeah. That's a great question. And it's a very specific question because I'll tell you, Russ, 73% of my clients are women, 73. It's not like I just market to women, it's because women live longer than men, and the typical situation I find is that there's a couple and their kids have left the nest and they end up buying a new house. The kids are gone. They no longer need the house that they used to have. They downsize. And they're in their, let's say they're in their fifties, mid-fifties, 55, right? And they take out a 30-year mortgage on a new house so that they can downsize. Now, if they took out a 30-year mortgage when they're 55, that means they're going to be making that mortgage until they're 85. And they don't think about very rarely do couples die at the same time. Just doesn't happen very frequently unless they're in a car accident or a plane accident.

Genie McGee:
So typically, one predeceases the other, usually it's the husband, the wife is left and they don't redo the mortgage just because her husband died. She still has to make that mortgage payment. And so, people don't think about that. They don't look into the future. They just know that they can afford the mortgage at the time they were qualified for it, and they make it until their income drops. And then that's when there's something that happens, and then they don't have the same kind of monthly income that they used to have. I see that situation a lot. So that's something that, I tell people to think about the future, not just here now. Most of my clients don't "Need the reverse mortgage," so it's not like they don't have money or they don't have what they need, it's not like they don't have assets under management, most of my clients have assets under management. They have money, but what they're concerned about is the future.

Genie McGee:
They're concerned about some of those risks that come, what if somebody predeceases the other? What if I live longer than what I plan? Because I have a client that's 99. People are living longer. What if I do need long-term care and we didn't buy it early when it was cheap? It's too expensive now. We don't have long-term care. I've seen people go through lots and lots and lots of money because they have a long-term care issue that persist, that was chronic and they just needed to care for years and years and years.

Genie McGee:
So most of my clients are women who are in that situation and they even, even those who planned, they're concerned, what if I live too long and I don't have enough money. That's a typical client. That's not like, I won't serve men. I do have men. They're just a smaller percentage of my practice. And the second percentage would be couples who are trying to plan for the future, right? Couples, and they typically are part of the math of fluent, and that's people that have money. They have somewhere between 300 and 1.5 million under management. They have money, but they're concerned about whether or not that money's going to last as long as they do.

Russ Thornton:
Yeah. It sounds like it really just brings another level of flexibility and choice to people. Gives them maybe a little bit more of a sense of financial independence, which I can only imagine is important to a lot of folks, especially at that stage of life.

Genie McGee:
Yeah. Yeah. A home is a illiquid asset, right? It's an asset, but it's still liquid. And I tell people when people say, "Well, I have my home paid off and I don't owe anybody on the house." I say, "I'm sorry to hear that," and they look at me. It's a way of really kind of engaging them. And it's because that money can't be spent, its equity. It can't be eaten, you can't go on vacation with it. It's great to have. It probably gives you peace of mind and you sleep better at night, but that money is not working for you. And so, it's just a way of being more efficient with what you have. It's a way of being more efficient. And that's why people like Wade Pfau and Jamie Hopkins and others who've done research, doing all these Monte Carlo simulations thing, when does it make sense to engage your equity into the whole retirement picture?

Genie McGee:
And all of their research says, it makes sense early, not late. Don't wait until you're 85, you're running out of money and you're still healthy, and your husband has died. That's not the best time to use it. The best time, like anything is when you're young and you're planning for the future. So you plan using the equity in a way that makes sense, that allows you to have more monthly income, to save on taxes, to have a better retirement, right? To have a bigger retirement, because if you could divert the money that you're making in mortgage payments, just think about even your practice Russ. If you thought about all the people in your practice who are 62 or older, still making a mortgage payment, and our stats say it's about 40% of retirees still making a mortgage payment. If they just diverted that $20,000 to you as a planner instead of making a mortgage payment, how would that make a difference in their retirement efficiency and their ability to have enough money to last?

Russ Thornton:
It's an interesting question, and I think that maybe the even more interesting question is if someone's in their sixties and can qualify for a reverse mortgage and it's appropriate, and it does, let's say it does free up $20,000 a year in additional cashflow, I think the more interesting question is yeah, they could maybe save it and invest it for the future, but I'd also want to see them, if they can afford to use the money and improve their lifestyle, to be able to spend more time with their kids or grandkids or travel or give to charity or whatever's important to them. So I think it's not a foregone conclusion that any freed up cash would be invested or added to a portfolio or saved, although clearly that's one option. I think the more interesting or more holistic way to look at it would be to look at what's important to the client and look at what they can afford to do and kind of make decisions on that basis. But I take your point. It's interesting to consider.

Genie McGee:
I agree with you. Yeah.

Russ Thornton:
Yeah. But I do take your point. It's interesting to consider what potentially another $20,000 a year in free cashflow could do to someone's life and lifestyle in their sixties or seventies or beyond. And you mentioned earlier Genie, that I think you said 70 plus percent of your clients are women, and that's one of the reasons I was so excited to have this conversation with you, because as you know, this is Women's Retirement Radio, and clearly the work you're doing has an impact if not directly, certainly indirectly on women as they're planning for and transitioning into retirement. So I find your work in this conversation and using reverse mortgages as part of a financial plan fascinating, frankly. So, I know you've shared a couple of examples already, but when you think of, you've been doing this for 19 years, when you think of all the clients and families you've worked with and helped, what comes to mind as a favorite client success story for you?

Genie McGee:
Oh, wow. Well, I'll harken back to what you just said and reiterate that it is true. It is based on what the client is trying to accomplish. So that's the first question I ask. And I probably would guess that that's what you asked too. What are you trying to accomplish? What's your goals? Right?

Russ Thornton:
Yeah. Exactly.

Genie McGee:
And somebody said to me today that lots of people live their life saying if I could only get through this week, then I'll be okay. If I could only get through this week. And we live our lives that way not thinking, how do I want to thrive? What do I want to do? How can I do it? Right? And you're right. Lots of times I've talked to enough financial planners, they say that people that are meticulously putting money away, putting money in their investment portfolio, their biggest issue is when it's time to start spending it, they don't want to spend it, right? They don't want to take that vacation. They don't want to... Because they're scared, right? I'm sure you have clients like that. They've done good, right? They've done good, but you have to encourage them to spend the money to have this life, because we only get this one life.

Genie McGee:
So one of my favorite ones is a woman that I've served over the years. This is my oldest client. She's 99. And she has actually done three reverse mortgages with me. And she's my favorite, not just because she's done business with me and trusted me with this, but it's because she's lived much longer than she ever thought she would, and she even said that, "Genie, I never thought I'd live this long." And the reason she's been able to redo her reverse mortgage three different times, one, she keeps staying alive, right? Alive. But the other is that she wanted to age in her home, right? She didn't want to move. She had the option of moving into a facility, but she didn't want that. That's not what she wanted. And the reverse mortgage has changed over those years.

Genie McGee:
And so, as the reverse mortgage max, what we call the maximum claim amount has increased, and our house value has continued to increase, she's been able to continue to get money out so that she could live the life she wants to live. So I think that's super important, to be able to live with dignity in the way you want to live and not be forced to live somewhere you don't want to live. So that's one of my favorites.

Russ Thornton:
Yeah. What a great story. And yeah, I couldn't agree more. You mentioned a phrase a moment ago about we only get one shot at this life. And that's something that I, I say those very words often when I'm talking to people. So it's really about figuring out how you want to live, what's important to you, what's important to the folks that you care about, and then trying to make a plan to make that work. And so, I love that story and how that thread kind of carries to that as well. So we've covered a lot Genie. I'm sure we can probably talk for another two hours and not have to catch our breath, but since this is Women's Retirement Radio and it all comes back to retirement issues around women and their families as they're planning for retirement, and clearly reverse mortgages could play an important role in that. I'm curious, when you think about the word retirement, what comes to mind for you personally?

Genie McGee:
Personally, for me, I feel like, I go by this, retirement should be fun. That's it. I just feel like retirement after you've worked so hard and so long, it should be fun. Now, there are some things that could happen in retirement that aren't always fun, but back to what we talked about, we only get this one life. It should be fun. So when I think about my own retirement, what's fun to me, it's travel. I like to travel internationally. I'm just curious about the world. I'm curious about cultures and people and different foods and terrain. So that's fun to me and that's personal, right? Whatever's fun to you might not be the same fun I have, but I do think that retirement should be fun. So that would be my mantra about retirement.

Russ Thornton:
Yeah. Well fun's a great to associate with retirement. So I really like that. And then I guess, dialing in more specifically to retirement for women, what do you see as maybe the biggest challenge that women specifically face when they're planning for their own retirement?

Genie McGee:
I think that the lack of information, I do think that often when a woman is married and she and her husband are working toward retirement, often she allows her husband to take the lead on that. And if he predeceases her and I see this a lot, she has not been an integral part of that conversation. So often she's kind of out of the loop, she didn't develop the relationship with the planner, she doesn't know some of the stuff that her husband did, and she feels ill equipped to handle it. So that's what I think that is important for women to be empowered, to engage in the conversations, knowing what's going on and also for planners to specifically engage the wife, not just the husband, to develop that relationship with the wife.

Genie McGee:
The other thing that I see that I think is super important, I'm a 14-year breast cancer survivor, Russ. I found out that I had breast cancer back in 2007 on Halloween. So it was the scariest Halloween ever, right? But the thing that I learned about that in that whole experience is that I didn't just have one doctor, I had lots of doctors, I had a nutritionist, I had an oncologist, I had a surgeon, I had different nurses, I had a variety of doctors. I had my internist, and they all collaborated to make sure I got the best care that I needed. And so, I think that it's super important and this is kind of the way I do my business to bring in a variety of people that understand different things, right?

Genie McGee:
So that's why I collaborate with financial planners. I collaborate with the CPA and the attorney and the estate planning attorney and the realtor. I collaborate. And that's where women can get the best outcome is having professionals who are on their team helping them set things up in such a way that they do get success. They do get to reach those goals. I think that's super important. And I think it's something that women do naturally. I think women are natural collaborators. They have lots of friends, but often the professionals don't talk to one another. And I think that's important. I think professionals need to talk to one another, just like you do in medicine, because if you don't... In medicine, if you don't collaborate with, if the surgeon, if my surgeon did not collaborate with my oncologist, I could sue them probably for negligence, right? Like, "You didn't talk to my oncologist," but we don't have that same kind of standards in when we're talking about our finances, and I think it'd be who's women to kind of help facilitate that collaboration.

Russ Thornton:
Yeah. I couldn't have said that better. And that's one of the motivations for this podcast, frankly, to highlight some of the other wonderful professionals out there that are genuine and authentic and really want to do right by their clients. And I am one of the first to admit that I'm really good at what I do, but I can't do nor can I know everything. And so, that's why I like to surround myself with other complimentary professionals like yourself and like CPAs, tax and legal experts, things like that. So I really loved the collaborative team message. I think that's really important and I'm glad you've highlighted that. Genie, as we wrap up, I always like to ask this, I know you're busy with your business and with your educational efforts, but if you ever have an hour or two all to yourself, how do you most enjoy spending it when you've got a little free time?

Genie McGee:
Oh, what a great question, Russ. Thank you. Well, I have three sons and two of them are college graduates and one of them is still a junior in college, but he lives on campus. So I have two great things that I really like. I have lots of interests, but one of them is exercise. I I like to run. I like to hike. I like to bike. I like to do yoga. So anything physical is just really fun for me. So I like that. And I also am a big reader, so I'm just a big reader. I just liked books. And I like to read books. I like to learn new things. And I guess the most recent book that I read was a book called Who Not How by Dan Sullivan. And so, that book has really resonated with me. So those two, apart from, also, I told you earlier, I have a art degree. So I still do art, primarily fibers, weaving and that kind of thing in my spare time. Yeah. So.

Russ Thornton:
Well, thanks for sharing that. And interestingly, I've read that same book and I really got a lot out of it. So it's interesting that you mentioned that one. But I always like it when my guests share a little bit more about themselves as a person. So thank you for that. Wrapping up Genie, if there were, we've covered a lot, there's probably a lot more we could cover yet, but if there were one thing that our listeners could take away from our conversation today, what would you want that one thing to be?

Genie McGee:
So what I would say is, if what you thought about reverse mortgages was wrong, when would you want me to tell you? Right? So there's just so much negativity about the product and frankly ignorance about it. And so, I would say if you were wrong, when would you want to know? When would you want me to tell you? So be open, right? Because things have changed so much. Just be open to learning. And if I can ever be helpful to any of your listeners or just have a conversation, I don't try to sell. I just try to educate. I'm always open to that.

Russ Thornton:
Well, I think that's a great place to wrap things up today. And I want to thank you again, Genie for joining us. I think this has been a great conversation. I know my listeners are going to get a lot out of it. If someone's interested in talking to you or learning more, getting in touch, what's the best way for people to reach out and keep up with, to either reach out to you directly or to keep up with what you're working on?

Genie McGee:
Yes. So they can either call me. I'm always open to having a conversation at 404-388-1885. They can email me. I'm at genie, G-E-N-I-E.mcgee, M-C-G-E-E @fairway, F-A-I-R-W-A-Y mc for mortgage company.com. Or they can go to my website, which is wwwfairwayreverse.com/genie-mcgee. So any of those ways they can, or they can connect with me on social. I'm on social media too, so.

Russ Thornton:
Great. Well, we'll be sure to share all of those links and emails and phone numbers in the show notes for this episode, along with some of the other resources you've mentioned and pointed people to. And Genie, thank you. This has been great. I've enjoyed the conversation. Always enjoy speaking with you. And I think this was a super interesting topic first to dig into a little bit. Might have to have you back again in the future to continue the dialogue, but I just wanted to say thank you.

Genie McGee:
Well, I want to say thank you to you, Russ, for the work you do with women. And thank you for inviting me onto your podcast. It was a delight.

Russ Thornton:
Yeah. Well, this was fun. I'm glad you could join us. And for everyone out there listening, thanks for joining us. We look forward to catching up with you on the next episode of Women's Retirement Radio.