Singletrack
Singletrack is a podcast covering the professional trail and ultrarunning scene.
Singletrack
LA Marathon Experience / Gear Recap + Future of Conversational Pace Chatter
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This is a crossover episode from Conversational Pace. Brett Hornig interviews me about my LA Marathon experience + we speculate a bit in the second half about the future of CP.
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- Precision Fuel and Hydration - use code SINGLETRACK at checkout for 15% off your next order
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- Janji - premium trail running apparel
- Kodiak Cakes - my favorite oatmeal and pancakes
Welcome back or welcome to the Single Track Podcast. I'm your host, Finn Melanson, and this is a special crossover episode of the show. The other day I joined a friend of the podcast, Brett Horning, on his program, Conversational Pace, for a rundown of my LA Marathon experience, and we're putting it in the feed here too. Do me a favor, if you're not already subbed to his channel on YouTube, go do that right now. He is doing the Lord's work on the gear review front and hosting interviews with top athletes on related topics. Anyways, uh I am well aware that my marathon times are amateur at best, but this is a fun conversation. Maybe you take a few things from it for your own training. We also do some fun live brainstorming for future CP content. So yeah, without further ado, here's the conversation with Brett Hornick. Before we get started, Kodiak Cakes is back. Funny enough, I was reflecting on this recently. I believe they are one of the OG partners of the show dating back to 2022, about four years ago. We've worked on and off together over the years. Well, we're working together again, this time for the next 12 months. I am really stoked about it. They're going to be the official breakfast partner of Single Track. What more to say? I use this stuff on a daily basis, specifically, really enjoying their peak oatmeal packets. All great flavors. Personally, though, my go-to is banana nut. Each one has 20 grams of protein per serving, which I keep in my car post-run. It's like my post-run uh immediate fuel. Uh all Ligit ingredients, whole grains, no GMOs, go check them out. Kodiakcakes.com.
SPEAKER_04239-29. Finn, congratulations on a big LA Marathon PR. Um I I'm not, yeah, I'm not gonna do the whole like wait till the end of the episode to see what Finn ran. I mean, you could just go look it up and see on Estrava. So we're just gonna dive right into it because you've been training for this marathon for a while. And at the time of it's Monday, uh, March 9th. You you ran yesterday. So this is like this is well still in the in the mind. Um how are you doing?
SPEAKER_05Well, first of all, it's it's it was wild to be in this scene because I am steeped in trail, not so much in marathons. And in the first five-ish miles of the race, everyone's talking, and everyone in marathons apparently is a three-digit number. Hello, I'm Mr. 237. Oh, I'm Mrs. 233. Great to meet you. Like you are your three-digit number. You're just a number in marathons. Uh, it's a totally different conversation in trail. So I had to introduce myself as I think I was, I mean, I've done like 244 in training, so I was Mr. 244 for the first uh Oh, you could have been Mr. Debut. Could have been Mr. Debut, yeah. But I'm feeling pretty good. Yeah. I think there's a lot of there's a lot of things that we can talk about um which shock me. And I think I think I'm feeling better than I should 24 hours removed from the marathon, but for surprising reasons. So we can get into it.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_04Before we talk about the race, a couple questions that I was curious about. When did you decide that you were going to run the LA Marathon?
SPEAKER_05I'll be totally honest. Six weeks ago, I was on a call with our nutrition partner, Precision Fuel and Hydration. And over the Christmas holiday, they became the nutrition partner for the event. And I'm guessing at last minute they asked around to their athlete roster, hey, do you want to hop in and just like help us activate there? And I'm I'm I'm honestly guessing that I was sort of like the second or the third tier ask. And they were like, hey, like this is a little bit last minute, but do you want to hop in and we can create some cool content around it? And I think it was, yeah, it was like mid to late January. I was looking for some inspiration. I have some big summer mountain trail goals lined up, and I think this is a good time to be foundational about things. And so I was like, yeah, you know, I kind of need a kick in the pants, let's do it. And I figured that I could get about four solid weeks in and then begin to taper and call it good. And so that's the story. And it was kind of like a partnership opportunity, but that turned into something like personally meaningful, and I feel like I feel like I I'm a better runner on the other side of it, thanks to it.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's interesting how you know you said like six weeks, four weeks of good training. You were, you know, running prior to that. Um didn't come out of nowhere. But it's more like trail fitness, and then I don't know. I I've I've I've been personally curious more about because there are not that many people who come from like I've been doing years of trail and now I'm gonna try and blast a marathon. It's most people the marathon is the longest thing they do. What were some big changes that you made, you know, in the the six-week transformation of becoming a marathoner versus like maybe the six weeks leading up to a even like like six weeks leading up to even like a faster 50k or a 50 mile?
SPEAKER_05I think because of the rel and again, like you said, I have been training year-round because we have we have uh we have mileage quotas for for CP. And so like I'm always like decently in shape, but just given that there was like six weeks to race day and I needed to get as specific as possible, I skipped like the neuromuscular phase, I skipped the VO2 max phase, I skipped like the three-minute interval type stuff, and I went straight to like three by three mile, two by five mile, long runs with like a big 60-minute chunk of quality mixed in, a lot of aerobic threshold training. So I think I skipped right to the part of like media marathon training. So it yeah. So I I think it'd be fun in future blocks to actually do the standard like 12 to 16 week thing where you can get four weeks of each zone mixed in. So I just picked the last zone and went with it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so you just went straight for like the diesel engine, like get marathon, like I guess it's like almost get more marathon pace strong. Do you feel like that was what you because I guess you can kind of for the time that you had to train, you kind of get to pick one. You know. Do you feel like that was what you needed the most going into this race? Yes.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Um I and I honestly the reason I picked it is I just think those are the workouts where mental toughness comes into play and dedication. And as we both know, or you definitely more than me, you cannot fake anything on race day in a marathon. Like it you are a function exactly of the work that it's so mechanical. You are a function of the work you did in training. And I think the biggest thing I needed to build before the race day was just purely the mental toughness to grid out pace late.
SPEAKER_04Did you feel any sort of I don't know if it's additional or a different type of race day pressure or nerves? Because, like you said, it's kind of like, yeah, sure, there's a ton of people out there, but it's it's you versus the clock, it's when I line up to the next marathon, who do I get to introduce myself as? And now you get to be Mr. 239.
SPEAKER_05I I was actually really excited to be a part of a cohort. I I ultimately ended up in a weird position because you start, I mean, yeah, for th this was new to me, but you start in a corral and I was in like the open corral and there was a men's elite field that went out before us, a women's elite field that went up before us ahead of time. I was hoping that I could slot in with the women that were trying to go for the OTQ standard and try to like pull myself to 237 or below. But I ended up starting out in the open division and I was hanging out early with people that were in the 245 to 250 pace-ish. Um that was actually beneficial because I think it it necessarily held me back early. I didn't have a watch on, and so I didn't know what pace I was going. I just thought I was going pretty fast, but I was just going their pace. Um, but bottom line, I actually didn't feel any pressure out there because I felt like I was tucked into another cohort of runners going after a similar goal, and we could like spread out the pressure if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, that was gonna be a question I was gonna ask was did you find yourself locked into a group uh from the start, or was it more like just immediately started passing people? Because when I ran CIM in 2020 a while ago, 2022 maybe, um, I I was way back in the you know open corral and I was just like basically passing people all the way until like I didn't hit like pace equilibrium with the people around me until like mile 20.
SPEAKER_05I was with these 245, 250 people for the first five to ten miles because I went out, I averaged, I think I averaged like six thirteen for the first ten miles, and then I was in no man's land from 10 to about 18, and then from 18 to 26, I was passing the people in the elite to elite fields that just didn't have good days and they were falling back dramatically. So I was passing people like emphatically because they were like it was like the women that had like just missed 237, they're like, I don't care anymore, so they just gave up. And it was the men who were in the 220s that just like spectacularly blew up that fell back too. Which this this was a blow-up day.
SPEAKER_04I mean, it wasn't ideal weather. I mean, I know from an ultrarunner standpoint it it wasn't that hot, but from a marathoner standpoint, it was kind of bad.
SPEAKER_05Dude, you gave me an amazing bit of it. We were texting back and forth. I was just throwing all these questions at you pre-race. One of the pieces of advice that you gave me, which was amazing, was at every single aid station, as you're going down the line of cups, just pull as many as you can and just douse yourself. And so from mile one on, even at mile one, when it was 54 degrees, I was soaked, freezing. And I did that from one to twenty six. The crazy thing was I was the only person doing that. Dude, people don't know. Topical cooling has not reached marathoning.
SPEAKER_04No, and maybe that's potentially a good thing, depending on how many of those cups are designed for drinking and whatnot. But like. Or if it's like a, you know, you get one, use it wisely to either put it in your body or on your body. Um Well, dude, the crazy thing was everyone was laughing at me.
SPEAKER_05So the A station volunteers were like, what are you doing? Look at the look at this joker. And I was like, what are you guys talking about? This is a legitimate strategy. And they thought they thought I was just clowning. You're just like, science. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, and then kind of like what we were saying, they're close enough together where you know, if you're hitting your goal marathon pace, you will hit the next opportunity to douse yourself with water before you dry off. And then I think that's one of the key things for because it it was probably almost 70 degrees by the time you finished.
SPEAKER_0571. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's hot.
SPEAKER_05But I never felt it. I felt cold the entire time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's amazing. Because I was looking through some other uh people's finish times, and many, many people had the, you know, the slowdown trend with the weather. Like the like every one or two degrees that it got hotter, they were slowing down like three or four seconds per mile. Whereas you stayed rock solid all the way through, which if anything, then you know, Strava would give you like a negative split for something like that to account for the the the temperature increase. Um we gotta talk about the no watch thing. You'd mentioned that just very briefly before, and I'm sure a lot of people were like, it's wait, what? So we gotta talk about that. What you didn't wear a watch. Where's where did that come from?
SPEAKER_05Uh it was not premeditated. So I we've had a bunch of family in town the last two weeks. I mean, the like the house has just been nonstop. We've been entertaining, and we were cleaning in between and stuff. And long story short, I just misplaced my watch. I couldn't find it, and I was like desperately searching around the house for it.
SPEAKER_04That is a classic Finn story.
SPEAKER_05It is a classic Finn story, and it it anyways, I never found it. But here's the thing I actually think it was a massive, massive blessing in disguise because to be totally honest with you, my ego wanted me to run a pace on Sunday that was faster than the one that I averaged actually. And I and I think that if I had gone out at my ego pace, which probably was like 555 to six minute pace, we would be talking about like a 246 marathon today. We'd be talking about uh well, let's just call it like 14 to 16 miles at pace and probably of a significant fall-off after that. The magic of no watch is intuition, I think, is actually goaded. I my body just somehow knew to run the exact effort. It knew exactly where the line was, and it just put me at that line. I would say every five or six miles, because I was curious and a little bit anxiety, I asked people around me what we were doing, and every single time it was like what I suspected it was. So that's cool. It it it really, it really, I mean, look at look at what it did. It held me in check for the first 13 miles. I think I split like 121.30 for the first half. Second half, I turned it on almost at specific intervals that a coach like you would tell me to, and it was like a 118.30 or 118.20 second half. Um yeah, so like I'm I'm thinking, like, are watches obsolete? Like, should we not be racing with watches? Like, if your body knows what the effort is for the event, should you just trust that?
SPEAKER_04I think for you know, the the more linear effort, flat stuff, like you know, road marathon, you know, I think I was I was hitting split, like I was hitting the split button like every mile for the first half. Um partly because I kept feel I I started out too slow, and then when you I speed up and then I'm like, am I speeding up too much? Am I not speeding up enough? I didn't ever have the opportunity to just like mindlessly lock in, which is part of why I want to race another marathon, because I want that sort of experience. Um but then after the second half, like once I got through the halfway point, I was like, okay, it is what it is at this point. Like I gotta just put my head down and run. Um and and you're right, there definitely is something to that, especially with like like you use less brain power and like I don't know, I just I don't think the marathon's a a thinking sport.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and I'll I'll be tar like again, this hurts the ego, but if I'm being ruthlessly honest, I I I think I might have been able to run like 10 or 15 seconds faster yesterday. I think I got exactly the most I could have gotten myself on the day.
SPEAKER_04Well, your splits would indicate that looking at it, where it's like it was pretty much even. Um, s like a little, you know, a little bit negative in the second half. And then yeah, you you ask a hundred people this question, you'll probably get a perfect 50-50 split answer where it's like, oh, does that mean, especially with the weather, you could have gone out a little bit faster and then probably still run the same pace again, or you go out that little bit faster and then all of a sudden, like you said, you're losing like 20, 30 seconds a mile because you're right on that bubble. Um chances are you're probably right. Like not too often do you finish a race. Like you've raced enough where you hit a finish line, you're like, Yep, that was good. That was a good one. Um that's yeah, that's really cool. Did you uh ever know that you were like right on 240 or sub 240 pace? Like when did you when did you see the clock for the first time?
SPEAKER_05Here's the crazy time. Yeah, here's the crazy thing about LA is they don't have any uh uh timing mechanics out on course. The only clock is at the finish line.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So just like and so the other crazy thing was I think I told you I was mostly in no man's land all day. The few times where I was running with other people, they were all international. There was a Japanese guy, there was a French guy, there was a Mexican guy, and none of us had a common language. And so I kept, I would I would ask each of these people, like, where are we at? And the and like this guy would come back to me in French and I'd be like, Do Zelda, like I I don't know what that number is. And it's kilometers. And it's kilometers. Yeah, like so. I I really, I I genuinely had no idea. It was high anxiety. Um it was high anxiety in the sense that like I I knew I was giving my best effort, but I didn't know exactly where I stood in overall finish time, except actually with eight minutes left to go, about 1.2 miles from the finish, there was a guy English speaking who I was able to connect with, and he told us our live split, and he told me that it was going to be super close and I had to push, and so I tried to hang. He he pulled me to the finish. And I was actually thinking about your moment at CIM when you met that guy at mile 20 and you just decided to ride with him and kind of used him as fuel. He, this guy didn't end up dropping, but he he got me like an extra four-tenths of a mile at pace to get there. Raid Research is the official equipment partner of the show. Guess what? I don't just use their product in the mountains, though it's great there. I also used it at the LA Marathon this past weekend. Yeah, there were eight stations every mile, but I wanted to stick to my custom fueling plan. I was able to fit everything that I needed into the LF2L belt, bottles, gels, electrolytes, etc. Go check it out, raidresearch.com. That's R-A-I-D-E research.com. Also, thanks to Johnji, the official apparel partner of the show. Go shop their 2026 refresh, a few new arrivals on the site, six and eight-inch trail half tights, their run all-day tees and tanks. I just picked up their runaround pullover. You've probably seen me podcasting in it in recent episodes. Super comfortable with brushed back fleece interior, ribbed cuffs, hem and neckline. Go check it out at jongy.com forward slash pages, forward slash single track.
SPEAKER_04We should die, let's dive into a little bit of the uh the nitty-gritty of of the race breakdown. So we talked a bit about about the splits. One thing that I probably used my watch the most for when I ran my last marathon was timing my fueling. What was your fueling plan?
SPEAKER_05So I act they say don't try anything new on race day. And like a lot of people, I broke that rule. During training, I was I was my gut was ready to do about 80 grams of carbs an hour. I had done three or four long runs where I got through them no GI distress, or at least I worked to a better spot. Um what I did on racetray that was different was I I took up every hour I was taking a PF90 gel, so 90 grams of carbs, but then I was also doing this pH 1500 drink mix, electrolytes that also has 15 grams of carbs in it. So each hour I was doing about 105 grams. So you were just like, how did you tie so you you had PF90s with you, like big boys? I had the big boys. So for the for the race, the the my total stack was two PF-90 gels, one PF30 with 100 milligrams of caffeine, and uh two 20 ounce bottles of water with the pH 1500 mixed into both. Did you carry all that from the start? Yeah, I had a a raid LF2L belt on. Um I actually I handhelded it. So, you know, I just with the trail background, I was more comfortable with with handhelding it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And so uh I guess another benefit of the second half was just like I had less weight on my person because I was just eating stuff down, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, there are eight stations every mile, but um, I think one of the big worries that I had going in was that I would just get like a a sufficient slurp of the cup. Um I didn't know until race day that they actually had some gels out on course too, so I could have grabbed them at a few aid stations, but risky though and look, this is how I trained. I I I every long run I went on, I was bringing out like a full thing. Um, it wasn't vest. I guess the belt was a race day decision. Uh precision gave us these sweet jerseys, and I didn't want to block the jersey with the vest. It was like an LA Dodgers themed vest or jersey. Yeah. And I didn't want to block it, so I I was gonna use the um the Decker's Innovation Lab vest, which by the way, just on the ground, people loved. Like I showed that to some people and they were like, I want that, you know? So but I didn't use it. It's so light. It's so light, and it I mean, just the magnetic straps and stuff, just incredible. But no, I I did the belt, worked great. It was just uncomfortable for the first like eight miles with a lot of weight on me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. But yeah, as you said, it it gets lighter. That's one of the nice things about like the marathon is you don't re-up on anything, then all of a sudden you're not like waddling out of an A station being like, damn it, I've got six pounds of crap on me. Totally. Um I bet you were one of the better hydrated and fueled people around you because you just you made like what would be like the quote unquote safe. To start with more stuff on you.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And again, like it's it's amazing how, in a lot of ways, the roadrunning world is uh way ahead of us in terms of just like media sophistication, participation numbers, event size, all that kind of stuff. But like I feel like we have that notch up on nutrition. Like these people also aren't taking that many carbs down. They're not drinking that much. Like Molly Seidel has talked about like getting away with 60 grams of carbs over the course of a marathon and like not taking in any electrolytes. So it's just it's just interesting.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah, I agree. It's it seems like that that part of the sport on the road side of things has moved a little bit slower than um than on trail, especially in the non-elite side. Like on the elite side, you know, they get bottles every five kilometers, and you know, usually you're slamming like 50 or 60 grams of carbs. Um so like if it's it's there if you want it. But for uh non-elites who don't have bottle service, I you you look at the Start Live and American and it still looks like pretty bare bones of like, yeah, I'll I'll hope for the best with the water cups and I'll eat two gels over the course of the race. It's interesting.
SPEAKER_05And maybe that maybe the reason I feel decently well today is because I consumed so much.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah, that has that definitely is gonna play a big role into it with the with the post-race recovery and not finishing like total well the other thing too is like a lot of people run in the last 10k of a marathon like very bonked and you know, you know what it's like to like finish a race or a long run bonked where you just feel like hell the next day. Um makes a world of difference. That's cool. That's a dude, PF ninety is for a marathon. But actually I kind of like that approach because you get the screw top.
SPEAKER_05You get the screw top, and I I mean I just ran the numbers on how many well, I guess two things. One, I ran the numbers on how many PF-30s I'd have to carry otherwise. And it's just I think psychologically I felt it felt easier to think that I was going to consume two of those as opposed to like six PF-30s. For sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. The only thing I loved about the like little like I think I did Morton when I ran CIM because like that's just what you ate when you're running a marathon. Um, I loved like being able to slurp a gel and just like spike it on the pavement. I was like, in my world, that's an automatic DQ.
SPEAKER_05Dude, that's I couldn't believe all the the everyone had caught a case of the litter bug out there, and I was like, I gotta do this too. So like by by mile 16, I was throwing stuff on the ground. But like before that, I was like, oh, pack it in, you know, leave no trace. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You just like crapped on the side of the road, and you were like, someone'll sweep it up, it's fine. So it looked uh the actual course and like all of the different like I don't know, it's like checkpoints, parts of LA that you get to go through, looked pretty cool. It made me want to run the LA Marathon. I saw on the like the interactive course map there was like maybe eight or ten different DJs that you ran by.
SPEAKER_05There were so a couple cool things. I mean, no LA is notorious for traffic. It's it is a journey just to get from point A to point B anywhere in that city. So it was wild that something like a marathon could shut everything down and you just get this. It felt like what's the movie Will Smith? I is I Am Legend when he's like the last person in New York City. It's like that's one of my favorite movies. It felt like I Am Legend out there, kind of. It really felt post-apocalyptic. But uh so it was cool to run through like the cityscape, just like undisrupted. And then, like you said, yes, every couple miles there were bands. The the coolest one was it was the there were these young kids. It was like school of rock at mile six, I think there was these, there were the there was this kid band playing death metal. It was really, really, really cool. That one fired me up. So that was a nice little piece of it. And then the course is interesting. I mean, it's definitely not a P for most people, it's not a PR course. It's Hilly. Yeah, there's there's just under a grand of climbing, and it all just comes in the worst places. Like it's it is hard to build a rhythm there. Like you're constantly alternating downhill, uphill, flat. And then a lot of the uphills are are difficult because it's like the 1%, 2% grade uphills that just go on forever. Like you don't just get it over with in a hundred feet, it's like it really stretches out over the course of like a mile and a half. Um, and the in the finish, the finish ends. I'd I'd have to go back on straw of fact, check me, but it feels like a steep grade. You are finishing on a pretty brutal uphill. And that's actually why I think the in the men's race there, Nathan Martin, besides the fact that the leader got off course actually, which was crazy, that the lead vehicle took him off course.
SPEAKER_04What, two seconds?
SPEAKER_05Which is all he needed to lose. Oh my gosh. Because Martin beat him at the finish there by 0.18 seconds.
SPEAKER_04Dude, I was I was watching it live uh on my computer, and no one had any idea that Nathan was coming, and because he wasn't even in like the helicopter like camera shot, like the wide pan until the final 20 seconds. And even and even then the commentators were like, is that a a lady that he just passed? Because the elite women started in front of the elite men, and it was like it was cool. They announced the first person, man or woman, to cross the finish line, got a ten thousand dollar bonus because of the way that they staggered the starts and they made it like equal uh you know, equal opportunity to to be the first person to cross the finish line and um it went to the uh the ladies' winner. But um, that's why there was a little bit of confusion, and then they were like, oh my god, the guy who was he was like four minutes up on Nathan Martin at the halfway point.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_04Maybe even four, like it might have been four minutes up at like mile 18. And then they were like, is this happening? Is this happening? Is he gonna and then did you see the dive? And everyone was like, oh my gosh, I think we just witnessed someone get Aline at the LA Marathon. It was it was insane. Sight to sidebar. I'm worth it. That Nathan Martin, I was like, why does that name sound so familiar? Turns out him and I and my wife Maddie, we all debuted in the marathon at the same race in 2013. And that was the NAIA track and field national championships marathon, because the NAIA at their track championships does a road marathon, just like, you know, world championships or the Olympics. It's the only thing we have on the NCAA. And Nathan Martin won the marathon and the 10K that year, and he it was his first marathon, and he ran 219 solo. I think second place was like 226. Um, I was well off the back, but there was only like 35 or 40 guys in the men's side, and same with the women's field. So it's super small, but uh like Maddie and I both ran that marathon. That was both of our first marathons in college, and it was Nathan Martin's too. So Nathan Martin, N A I A represent winning the LA Marathon. Let's go. Also, he is that trajectory is awesome. So he ran 219 in 2013 as his first marathon, and he won the LA Marathon 13 years later as uh in a 211. Wow. Like that kind of longevity is amazing.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you know, one of the questions I had for you, because you have more experience in this area than me, is uh just thinking about like number two. Like what do you have any like off the top of the dome recommendations for how to start the linear progression at this distance? Because it is such a scientific thing, right? Like it's kind of like inputs outputs pretty clear.
SPEAKER_04I've been thinking about this a lot recently because not that I'm anywhere close, but like you always I don't know, I'm I've thought about running because I mean I follow running. I'm a huge track fan, I'm a huge road running fan. We follow the sport a lot in in terms of Olympic cycles. And you know, with the next Olympics being in LA in 2028, we're like getting into that marathon Olympic trials, like everyone makes the big push, and and and you know, like I mean I got to watch like when David Laney hit the 2016 trials mark, uh he was uh we were living together here in Ashland, so I got to see him uh train for the trials and like see what it took uh at that time. What stuck out? What stuck out I so much it's just like it hard work, not in the sense of like we're going hard every day, but to stack that many weeks of what of like what of what David needed to do to get in his best m best marathon fitness. And he did it uh pretty much completely solo as well, and just to see like what he needed to do for like you know, 16 weeks what and to stay healthy and to just be consistent and not have any little niggles or anything. It was incredible. Um and then yeah, and then he because I think the previous year he was just over the OTQ mark. Uh I think he was training with he might have actually been training with Brooks Hansons at the time. And then he moved back to Ashland and was like, I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it like old school. He was like, I like this area. I know where, like, I know how to do it here. He's like, I'm convinced I know how to do it here, and he was right. Um and it it's just the uh like it's just the grind. It's I like you said too, like you have to get into those like slightly uncomfortable spots in these long workouts, and like they're on the roads, it's not as pretty as the trails, especially when you live where like we live in areas that have amazing trails, and you're like out here looping the park, being like, I could be walking up that hill right now and still be gaining fitness. Um there's like something a little bit beautiful to that of like having the discipline to be like, I have my eyes set on this particular race because I'm going for this particular time. So kind of to loop it all back. It's like I always start thinking about the marathon more when we start getting to the end of Olympic like cycles because it's like I would love to not even be fit enough to hit an OTQ, but be fit enough to just hop on that CIM train for some number of miles.
SPEAKER_05Because no, go for it. You wait. Well, yeah, of course, of course you're going for it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you're going for it. But it's like the chances of hitting of like getting that day are so slim, but like I would love to give myself the opportunity to have that day. And like, we're not getting any younger. Like, for uh physiologically, like as far as grandfather time is concerned, this is pretty much the last Olympic cycle that I need to be even looking at in that way. So then it's like maybe next year's the year of the marathon.
SPEAKER_05Wait, okay, this is breaking news. So what are you how serious are you about this? Are you gonna do it?
SPEAKER_04I don't know yet. I mean, we still got I mean, I've I trying really hard to stay focused on the bear in September, but that seemed like a nice spot to like put a pin in it for a little bit. Uh and then like maybe go to the marathon for a year and then and then come back to the trails. Um, because going back to your original question, the second one, I've always thought that you need to link at least two marathon training blocks together to really get some of the physiological changes of the marathon. Because there's something that happens. I gotta read more into it. I just kind of started scratching the surface about like physiologically, when you're getting to like big marathon volume, like say you're pushing like 90 to 100 miles a week of like relatively flat running on the roads, um, like the elasticity of your tendons and like your overall body's efficiency, like starts to change quite a bit if you don't get hurt. And that takes a decent amount of time to happen to get that like you know, you see like that that that elite marathon or bounce, but it's like a very efficient sort of bounce. Yeah. Um, it's it's super unique. But one of the only ways to really get to that is by pushing like a decent amount of volume at the correct intensity for a decent amount of time, to get like you know, for like a non-super talented runner, for like, you know, your blue-collar CIM uh sub elite competitor, like you're just pushing like, yeah, around that hundred mile a week mark for like two or three blocks, and then all of a sudden you things start to change if you don't get hurt. And then you start having a chance. So like I I've always been curious about what it would be like to do two or three blocks in a row.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and so I mean the bear ends in September 2026, and so you'd have uh you'd have you'd basically have 14 months before the 2027 CIM. How many blocks can you get in in those 14 months?
SPEAKER_04That's where I haven't really like dove in because it seems like it would be a two-marathon year where you do like one in the late spring, and then you take some time off, maybe work on some shorter stuff and then gear up for the December race. Or if like things recovery goes really well after the bear, you kind of jump into like a kind of an early exaggerated uh or not exaggerated, accelerated marathon block, and then say pop off like a January or February marathon, uh, just to see where things are at, get the body into that marathon mindset sort of thing, and then do an early summer or a summer marathon, and then go do CIM. Then maybe it's like a three-marathon year. I don't know. Um These are things that I've been thinking entirely too much about, and it's all your fault because you've been training for the marathon and you get to you've been getting to spend more time in really fun shoes, which I think is probably where we need to take this conversation next. Um the shoes are better on the roads, dude.
SPEAKER_05The shoes are way better.
SPEAKER_04Like we should never use the term bouncy ever again for trail shoes. I even just with I've been doing like a handful of road runs because like I'm getting ready to run your race in a Buffalo Run 50 coming up in a couple weeks. Um and I feel like let me know if I'm like totally off base, but I feel like it's like a good amount of the fitness that you need to have going into the Buffalo Run 50 is marathon fitness.
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah. And there's uh you know, you can use a road super shoe on 47 of the 50 miles of this course very confidently, and then there's like three miles where it's like a little bit of a roll of the dice, but you're in the middle of it, so you can't really do a shoe change if you wanted to. Oh, you're good.
SPEAKER_04That seems worth it then. Totally worth it. So so then so I've been also now like doing some like marathon or kind of workouts, and it's like I feel like I'm starting to like catch the bug again because it does start to get kind of fun when you start getting a little bit fit and all of a sudden you're clipping off workouts that like you just couldn't do, you know, four or five months ago. Um, do you feel like you started getting to that point by by the rate by the time race day came around?
SPEAKER_05I'm gonna be totally honest with you. So uh a year ago last month, I ran 113 and a half. And I know this is a touchy subject for some people, so this they this is just my perspective, but like I was 165 pounds at this time last year. I'm 180 right now. I've been doing like a lot of protein creatine supplementation, and I just gained weight. And so like my marathon pace last year was actually probably faster than it is now. So I kind of just worked with what I was given in in the block. But you know, like faster faster today than I was six weeks ago, you know? I'll say that.
SPEAKER_04So I mean I think that's yeah, it's we can't look back in the rear view too far or else it gets it gets depressing.
SPEAKER_05It just i I think the tough part for me was like I'm 34, so I'm not like quite over the hill yet. Like I'm just approaching, like you said, like the father time is undefeated age. So yeah, like I think if we had talked at this time last year, I think I would have had a better shot at like maybe 235. But just like given my body comp right now, like 239 was the best I could do.
SPEAKER_04So where do you want to take this marathon, marathon fitness? Like, do you want to run another one soon?
SPEAKER_05Well, dude, like that uh that if you're gonna do this OTQ quest, which is amazing, like I was gonna throw it back at you. Like, does does any of our priorities on the channel change? Like, do we get more into do we just like because if you commit to it, I would love to commit to like a sub 230 quest or something, you know? Yeah. And I think it could be fun to like I know we're doing this like quarterly shoe. Maybe we do more roadshoe stuff. Like, what are you thinking?
SPEAKER_04Well, let's workshop this a bit more. I don't want to have anything finalized like midway through this episode, but yeah, you know, this year we're doing the quarterly roadshoe roundup where we do a quarterly roadshoe. Maybe next year it's the opposite where it's a quarterly trail shoe roundup and it's mostly roadshoes for a year. Does that completely F my channel and like the algorithm and all that stuff?
SPEAKER_05I don't know, but we gotta think about this some more. Um one other thing, my marriage has never been better because I'm training on roads. Like I get to leave the house, no commute. I go out the door and I come back and I say I'm gone for two hours, I'm gone for two hours, as opposed to like drive to the trailhead, do the run, drive. Like, there's just there's no commuting, at least from where we live right now. So that's been amazing too.
SPEAKER_04Not to mention um at a group chat going with, well, you were in it, but you were running, and then your wife Jules, and after the race, it was like, man, following the tracker for a marathon was so much nicer than following the tracker for a hundred mile because it's like still the morning, and Finn did it. He's done. He got his he hit his goal race. Now we can just move on with the rest of the day. How awesome is that.
SPEAKER_05Um, should we talk gear? Yeah, I gotta know. The single track podcast is brought to you by Norda, makers of my favorite trailrunning super shoes, including the 005. And maybe you've seen it out there in the wild at this point, the 0055. In fact, my good friend Jimmy Elam just took the win at the old Pueblo 50, punching his ticket to the Angeles Crest 100 this past weekend in a fresh pair. I believe these go live in May, but they're worth hyping now. Early candidate for Trail Super Shoe of the Year across all brands, no doubt. Go check out the rest of the product line, NordaRun.com. Also, thanks to Precision Fuel and Hydration, the official nutrition partner of the show. This past weekend I took down 105 grams per hour of a mixture of their PF90 gels and their pH 1500 electrolyte mix that also included a dose of carbs in there. This strategy fueled me to a five plus minute PR at the LA Marathon. Now I'm pivoting towards training for the Scout Mountain 100 in June. I'm thinking about adjustments for that one. I'll probably go back to the drawing board a bit in the nutrition planner, which by the way, if you have a race coming up, go check it out at the link in our bio. Super helpful in dialing in your nutrition plan. Thanks again to Precision.
SPEAKER_04So we talked about the fueling, how you held that, but I mean, I feel like the marathon's still all shoes right now.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So uh via conversational pace, uh about a month or two ago, we got the Hoka Cielo X1 3.0. And I started training in it actually at the beginning of this marathon block. I put about two weeks into the pair that you and I got. I loved it so much. I reached out to the team there and I was like, hey, I think we're gonna make some content around LA. This shoe works for me. Can you send me another pair? And so I actually got a fresh pair for Race, like zero miles on it. I put I got like a fresh pair of the CLO X13.0. It's a fast media guy hookup right there. Fast Media Guy hookup, thank you, CP. Thank you, Alex Lore at Hoka. But a couple things about this shoe. Um, it is again like the when you when we use the term bouncy in shoe reviews, this is like emblematic. This is like on the pedestal of bouncy. It's it's it these are it's like every step you take, it's like a the trampoline feeling. On one of those trampolines that like the little kids' tumbling academies where it's like the bounce isn't like amazing, but it's clearly a trampoline. Yeah, that's what this feeling is. Um super bouncy. It is a little unstable. A couple things like you turn a corner in the shoe and you're definitely teetering. Also, in the back half of the LA course, there's a bunch of quagmires in the roads and just like fault lines and stuff like that. And there were a couple times where like just misstepped a little bit, stepped into the crack and turned an ankle, stuff like that. But on really good pavement, uh, this is a fantastic, I think Hogan nailed it. This is a fantastic mirror. Marathoning shoe. Um, we have a couple more that you got through CP for us that I'll probably try, you know, over the next few weeks, but instantly like loved this. And again, like I think this is a big step up for Hoka because I think about what, for example, Jim Walmsley was using just four years ago in his 100K road world record attempt. This is light years.
SPEAKER_04He was rocking EVA. Yeah, exactly. Carbon plate is I don't know, as thick as a tank.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So come they've come a long way. I think this is a legit shoe. Um I think you had said there were some stats around resiliency that were like maybe showing that it was underperforming a little bit, and that's probably true.
SPEAKER_04But it's not testing that good, but people are winning races in it. Like the USA Half Marathon champs just happened, and Hoka men swept the podium. Yeah. Like, I know they're good runners, but like also the other people not sponsored by HOCA were good runners. And like that's that says something. Uh Jim actually just paced the Paris Half Marathon over the weekend. Um he ran 65 minutes as a pacer. Well, actually, he was he was the 65 minute pacer and he ran like 64.55. So uh kudos to Jim. But he was also wearing this uh Cielo X1 3.0. And I agree. If you like a bouncy shoe, this is it. Like, this is the bounciest shoe that I've ever worn.
SPEAKER_05It's it's incredible. So uh yeah, big big thumbs up from me. Would definitely use it again. A couple other pieces of gear that I think you'll find interesting. This is for the content creators out there. Uh I used the Oakley Meta Vanguard. You got some you got some uh some video glasses? Dude, I got some video glasses. And I would encourage people to go check out the DC Rainmaker review of these because DC Rainmaker has reviewed just about every single video glass in the book. And I think he would tell you that until this iteration, it's been like not worth your time. And even he says that this version is the first like usable, like legit version of video glasses. Uh the interface for this is really simple. There's just like a button that I can press here that starts recording video. I have voice commands. I can be like, hey Meta, start capturing video, hey Meta, stop capturing video. It captures my audio well. So I have some good clips of me just giving like play-by-play at various intervals. Um, I didn't bring my phone with me because I wanted to save weight, but if I had my phone, there's like Spotify and Strava integrations that were I can swipe and change songs and stuff. And I I tested that in the hotel room. That was fantastic.
SPEAKER_04That's sick.
SPEAKER_05Major win, and actually the I think the bigger breakthrough is for trail. Um we're seeing a lot of tech come out, the the rover uh drones that follow you. And like this is another piece where you supplement it with an Insta360 or GoPro, like at this angle. Um, the stuff in front of you, plus capture, like if I went off room with you at Buffalo or with Caleb, you know, or Tyler, whatever Mike locally, like it amazing vlog content. So I these are expensive 500 bucks, but they're great.
SPEAKER_04Do you think um do you think we'll see that uh on you at at the Bear 100 Frelli sections for our our future Bear movie? Definitely, 100%.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's a staple now. I in fact I I I said that I was gonna return them, but I'm not gonna return them. They're really good.
SPEAKER_04Were they comfortable to run it?
SPEAKER_05They're a little heavy. Well, they're a little heavy, and I would say after the two-hour mark, I did feel a little bit of like just an earache for the from the uh plastic kind of resting on top of my ear, but uh um I could probably get some padding for that. It's it really is it's worth it. But here they they do overstate the battery life. They say it's nine hours of battery life, but if you're doing what we're trying to do, I would expect more like two to three hours. Okay. Did they last for the whole race? They did, but again, I was only trying I was turning it on, turning it off to record specific sections, and I probably had it on for a cumulative like three minutes. Gotcha. Yeah. The next thing. The next thing. That wasn't the gear surprise. No. I guess we had two gears. So context, uh, I met a guy the day before, Victor Diaz, who is the owner of Renegade Running, which has a brick and mortar store in Oakland and LA. I would say Victor is at the forefront of like the new wave of running stores, and he does a great job at making these stores not just a place to buy product, but to like come for really cool events. Yeah. And he's also someone that I think a lot of the shoe brands and apparel brands consult with on product ideas. And anyways, I'm at his store the day before, and there's probably a hundred people in the store. It is jam-packed. And I start talking with him, and I'm like, I need a hat for race today. And he's like, I got something for you. I don't have it in store right now, but I got something for you. When you come by at mile eight tomorrow, because the course goes right past the store, I'm gonna have the hat in my back pocket. I'm gonna find you, and I'm gonna give you the hat. And in the back of my in the back of my head, I was like, this guy is just saying that to be nice. There's there's no way he remembers me. Um, but here's the like he's just a great people person. I think he genuinely cares about people. And lo and behold, I'm going past his store at mile eight, and he spots me out. I see the hat in his back pocket, pulls it out. Dude, radical airflow in a CG hat.
SPEAKER_04A radical, a rad air hat.
SPEAKER_05A rad air hat, dude. No, mile eight onward, I wore a radical airflow hat.
SPEAKER_04Dude, that that was it. That was the game changer. I'm looking at your splits right here on my other monitor through 10K. Like first split, 608 at 5K. Second split at 10k, 6'11. We're gonna ignore the fact that there was a giant hill there. But if we just extrapolate, Finn's already starting to slow down. I was like, oh crap, he's blown up. Turns out he got a renegade rad air hat out of the back pocket of the owner, and then all of a sudden the split started coming down again. It all makes sense. I get it. Now, this is why this episode needed to happen.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe we just clip this or something, but it's it is a really it's a really, really cool hat. The only downside was, again, I didn't have this the night before the race, so as I was testing out the meta vanguard glasses, in some of the shots from eight onward, the brim is obstructing the camera lens just a little bit. Whatever. I know it's a radical airflow hat, so I don't even care anymore. So pretty pretty cool though.
SPEAKER_04Um we gotta get you one. Dude, that's amazing. Yeah, that's uh that's gonna cool your head off more than my uh corduroy running hat, which I'm hoping to have these back in stock in a in a couple weeks. So stay tuned for that.
SPEAKER_05Sweet. Sweet. What about socks? Uh you know the socks that An sent us with the uh which shoes here? The the light sprays? With the light sprays?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, like it's like their uh elite sock. I just wore that sock. Dude, I love I think that's the same sock as like the one that they gave me um when I tried them on at TRE. And I love how like the freebie on sock is actually the best sock to race in. Oh, that was what I raced Black Canyon in. Okay. Uh yeah. Yeah, it turns out it's my new favorite sock. It's it's a great sock, yeah. Um did you have any um like blister hotspot issues at all?
SPEAKER_05No, because I I think that the fit on these cielos is fantastic. Like they're actually it, you know, the the material up near the toe box is is pretty flexible. Like it is it is a little bit narrow up there, but it contours pretty well to my feet. And I lathered on some squirrels nut butter uh pre-race and my feet looked fine post-race.
SPEAKER_04I've always kind of been under the assumption now too that it's like if you get a shoe that's like the right length for you for a marathon and you don't blow up in the race, so then your foot strike and like your biomechanics stay pretty efficient, you're not really gonna start sliding around too much in the shoe.
SPEAKER_05No.
SPEAKER_04Um also that's another thing, because you were talking about how you you feel pretty pretty decent today, but that level of cushion like helps the body out so much.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So no, I I would say one of the big takeaways is I think there's some stuff that we're doing in trail that the road scene could take notes from. And I think one of the big things is like yeah, you look at these companies like Never Second and Precision. I guess Morton is sort of born in the roads. But like precision's more from the tri-cene than came into like RC. Like, I don't know. I just think that there's some stuff that we're on the ball for now that I didn't quite see happening at scale in the marathon scene. So yeah. Um again, I've I I now think that like eating a lot during the race, I'm like, I did have some GI issues late, and then in the when I got into the tunnel and I have footage of it, I actually start throwing up a little bit. Like with 500 feet to go, I start to throw up a little bit. Yeah, like a meta puke. Yeah. Um sick. But I I I j I j I genuinely suspect that the biggest performance benefit from the number of carbs per hour is just how good I feel the next day.
SPEAKER_04Is Precision going to make one of those cool Instagram posts about your marathon?
SPEAKER_05They're doing it for all of us. Yeah, they had a nice. Yeah, they'll they'll they'll do them all. And actually, here's the cool thing about what precision did they because they are constantly testing. They had us take off basically all of our clothes 30 minutes before the marathon. They weighed us, they weighed us after the marathon, same thing at the at the finish line. They like stop everything, take off your clothes. We're weighing you right now. And so we got like the differentials there. I think I lost like 5.2 pounds over the course of the marathon. They did like an on the spot recorded interview with just all of their scientific questions around like my nutrition strategy, what I consumed. They had me take out all my gels, and like I had like a three-quarters eaten one, and they're like, that's seven. You took 70 of the 90 grams. So like they're taking it all back and you know, using it to inform strategy and stuff and their own internal research. So it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_04That is super cool. I remember hearing kind of a similar outline with uh Caleb Olson at Western States, where like, you know, when he would dump out his trash at his crew spots, they would like gather up all his gels and weigh them on a scale because they knew how much the wrapper weighed. And then they were like, okay, of the 51 gram PF30, he consumed 46 grams of the gel. Totally. Uh so like, and then I remember it even went as far as to then being like, okay, next time we see him, give him an extra calf because this time he only ate half the caffeinated gel sort of thing.
SPEAKER_05Dude, I wanted to get I wanted I forgot to tell you this. I think you'll find this interesting. And again, I'm not sure what the issue is here, but I train in Salt Lake City, right around 4,500 feet elevation. Marathon pace in Salt Lake for me felt like it was 6.05. Okay. So, and I was training with a watch. I think if I had taken that information to LA, I would have thought that I would have gotten about a five second per mile conversion and altitude adjusted pace would feel like six. So I think if I had the watch, I would have gone out at 6.05, tried to get to six, probably blown up. But because I didn't have my watch, uh, it turns out at least my body didn't really seemingly respond to the to the sea level benefit. And like marathon pace was about the same there in LA, which I I I can't explain.
SPEAKER_04I think the X factor there is the weather. Okay. Like starting when it's like 60 out and creeping up to 70, that would probably negate the pace difference. Um like I bet if it was ideal marathon temp, like if it was 45 degrees and cloudy and it, you know, by the time you finished it was fifty degrees and cloudy, you're probably you know, you're probably at six minute pace or slightly under. Um because when you're when you are riding that line uh the few degrees makes a huge difference. Um which yeah, for it's funny how we just like we don't even like blink twice at sixty-five degrees in a trail race. But like kind of also goes back to most of these trail races. It's like time doesn't matter. You're running on a trail.
SPEAKER_05It's just people racing people. That's all it is. That's all that matters in trail.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And like, of course, we have historical times to look at, but it's like in the grand scheme of things, if you want to go run a fast hundred mile, do it on a flat road or a track or something. Don't do it in the mountains. What like as we I don't know, kind of wind things down, what were some of your biggest takeaways from this marathon experience?
SPEAKER_05Well, I would say the number one takeaway was I had a moment. It did happen with about 500 feet to go, so this sounds like I'm being overly dramatic, but I did get to have a moment in the race where things turned on me so suddenly that all I wanted to do was just pack it in and quit and just walk to the finish. And in that moment I had a decision to make and I decided to keep fighting. And it still didn't look pretty, and everyone saw me throwing up and I was like hunched over, and it was ugly, but I still was able to maintain like 620 pace there or whatever and and get to the finish. And uh there have been many occasions in my, I'll call it a career, where when the going has gotten tough, I've just taken the easy route, and it was really cool to pass that test. It's it's again, it's a test that I'm grading. No one else is could ever tell what was going on internally, but like in my own experience, I was tested and I I fought through it. So it was it was cool to have that so that when when I do Scout later this year and bear, I can that's like a confidence booster. Yeah, that's huge. That is huge. Number two, this is it's the I I love the marathon because it's so scientific and it's like I said earlier, inputs and outputs, and it's really cool to know that if you do this type of work, you're gonna get this type of result, whereas it's a little bit more mysterious and trail. And so that is addicting. And I I love the lifestyle associated with marathoning too. You like the marathon or grind? I I think I like the marathon or grind, or I aspire to it at least. At least for now, I'm sure it gets old after a little bit. Like I said, I'm I'm not gonna put you on the spot, but I I do think it'd be really fun to do like a CP year on the roads. You know? It's like Michael, it's like Michael Jordan going to baseball for a year. Will we hit a ball? Will we get a hit? So I would be game. Um because yeah, like just anyways, so that that's number two, and then I would say number three. Well, I think I'm just I I am curious to know if at all this has any benefit to 100 mile racing, mountain racing later this summer. Yeah. And and and if I left anything out, like, does this hurt my buildup for scout or does it help it, or is it neutral?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I think that's largely gonna depend on the like an individual case-by-case basis. I think some people are gonna benefit hugely from uh increasing that speed ceiling to an amount. Um yeah, maybe you'll figure out that like that six weeks of marathon work, like that got you just the right amount fast enough to have a great baseline going into Scout, or maybe it unlocks something huge. Or maybe you end up cramping like super bad six hours in, and you're like, oh, I'm feeling that that speed work, all those fast twitch that I got now. Don't need those. But uh yeah, interesting like physiological experiment for sure.
SPEAKER_05I'm not totally sold on high carb in the mountains yet. I I like I did 105 per hour at s at LA. I I think I'll probably go for like 60 at Scout. You know, I just don't think I'm gonna be moving fast enough to have that type of absorption.
SPEAKER_04I've that's kind of where I've been at too, at least from like that's what my stomach has told me is like when I'm running decently hard on the roads, like marathon effort or a little bit slower, I can push much higher carbs than when I'm running hundred mile effort in the mountains, which is kind of backwards from what a lot of people are like. I don't I don't I don't know I don't know what that means, but uh yeah, it's I don't know, I don't know. Maybe someone in the comments, maybe the maybe this is something to bring up with the precision team. See what they have to say about that. I've been like, why can I slam a hundred grams an hour at marathon effort, but then my I feel way better at sixty?
SPEAKER_03Um you know, are you actually a much more efficient uh fat burner than uh maybe some others?
SPEAKER_05Can I throw out an audience question? Let's let's do it. I've got one too. The question that I want to throw out there, so Brett and I are both racing the Bear 100 on September, I think it's 24th.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, something like that.
SPEAKER_05And let let's let's just assume there's a world where we go all in on this road thing and it's like Brett's road to the trials. Help us build the ideal working backwards from December 27. Like list out your ideal or preferred 14-month buildup, assuming that Brett wants to make the trials team. Or the trials, I should say, the trials, the trials.
SPEAKER_04And the other okay, then the question I have is would you still say subscribed to the channel if we switched to m mostly road with a little bit of trail for one year and then switched back?
SPEAKER_05Well, can I can I give a hypothesis there?
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05I I mean I think the addressable market over in Road, there's there's probably a lot of runners who have never heard of CP because of the trail origins, and I think this unlocks a massive audience.
SPEAKER_04But then when I switch back to trail, when we switch back to trail at the end of 2027, now does the channel really blow up because we're like everyone thinks we're a road channel, and now we're like, we're gonna go do mountains now, and they're like, I don't do that by but maybe that's just maybe maybe that's just what's gonna need to happen. I don't know. We'll chat more about this. I think we we still got till September at least. Well, you're back, you're back into the trail world. I've I've been a trail person all year. I'm gonna continue to be a trail person through at least September. Um dude, this was a great chat. It was it was awesome to hear about it. And yes, that I mean, because I remember you were talking a month ago, you were like, I think on a good day I'm breaking 240 this time. And it was really nerve-wracking to watch the splits and it saying like estimated finish. You know, for a while it said like 242, and then it was like 241. Yeah, because your starting splits weren't that fast, so it was like 242, 241. And then all of a sudden the second split went from 608 to 611. I was like, uh oh, what is that? But then, and then all of a sudden the next one was 608, 607, then you were like 604, 604, and I was like, okay. And then all of a sudden your prediction dipped under 240. And I don't think it ever went any lower than like 239 flat. So it was always like right on the bubble. And it was just me refreshing the tracker until it finally popped up official. It was cool, it was cool, awesome.
SPEAKER_05Well, yeah, uh LA's cool. Recommend definitely recommend it. It it starts at Dodger Stadium, and if you've run along Hollywood Boulevard, Santa Monica Boulevard, Sunset. It's like I said, it's really cool to see the city empty, but just with the crowds on the sides. Dude, I just had a thought.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. We are both Boston eligible for next year. Dude, should we run Boston? Oh, should we run Boston?
SPEAKER_05Let's do it. We I can stay at my parents' house, they'll be great.
SPEAKER_04Wait, really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Are they how close are we? Well, my they're in Maine, but uh my brother's in Cambridge, so it like he he's on the course basically. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so we could totally okay.
SPEAKER_04Because our our times will be good. They're they're good enough under the buffer.
SPEAKER_05Okay. So 239-ish can get you pretty much automatically in.
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, because I think the mark the mark on their website for our age group is like 255. And I think it was like six minutes under for the last Boston was like the cutoff, so like two forty nine. So you're like, you're 10 more minutes under that.
SPEAKER_03Like Okay.
SPEAKER_04Surely that's good.
SPEAKER_05Uh let me say let me say one more thing. Okay. Uh I am doing one other road race this year. Oh yeah? The beach to beacon 10K in my hometown, Cape Elizabeth, Maine.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's an iconic race.
SPEAKER_05I've run it, I've run it a couple times. Um, but I I am gonna sign up for it this year, and that I will do it in the midst of bearer training, but I'm excited.
SPEAKER_04When's that?
SPEAKER_05Uh it's like August 2nd.
SPEAKER_04Okay. And it's 10 miles?
SPEAKER_05Uh uh 10K. Oh, 10K. 10K.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05So I will stay in touch a little bit.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. It's probably not a bad thing. Like pretty much year round, unless you're training for like Barkley.
SPEAKER_05I don't know. And then I really want to do the the Salt Lake Marathons in late April. And I really want to do it because I can just like wake up in my bed and just walk over to the start line. And that's in six weeks, but I just don't I don't know if you're going to be able to do that. Oh, you're trying to try this year? Oh yeah, this year. I'm like addicted, dude. I want to do another one.
SPEAKER_04I don't know. Yeah, don't don't burn yourself out. I know. Don't don't use up all the marathon matches. Oh man. Super shoes will only take you so far.
SPEAKER_05Well, dude, thanks for the chat. Appreciate it.
