2026 Cocodona 250 Preview | Analysis, Storylines, Predictions

Finn Melanson, Brett Hornig, and Leah Yingling provide in-depth analysis, commentary, and predictions for the competition at this year’s Cocodona 250.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome back or welcome to the Single Track Podcast. I'm your host, Finn Melanson, and this is the preview episode for the 2026 Cocodona 250, a race that has quickly evolved over the last five years into one of the most compelling and important events for the North American Ultra community. I'm joined as usual in this one by Brett Hornick and Leah Yingling. We talk about the history of the race, the evolution of strategy here, and the overall thought process in the multi-day scene. We talk about the course, the men's and the women's fields, our predictions. I am so excited looking at this men's field as I speak. Just a few names that we do touch on, but I think just deserve additional shout-outs here. If we didn't cover them a ton, Ryan Clifford, Joe McConaughey, Adam Kimball, Jeff Browning, Versteague, Max Jolliffe, Jeff Garmeyer, Zach Hower, Killian Korth, McKnight, Cody Poskin, DJ Fox, Jeff Peltier, Edda Ramirez. It's a great lineup. On the women's side, Courtney DeWalter, Rachel Entriken, Mika Thuze, Megan Eckert, Heather Jackson, Lindsay Dwyer, Lila Goudreau, Holly Stables, Lauren Jones, Stephanie Rosebaugh, Manuela Villaseca, and Sally McCrea. So yeah, just a compelling race across both fields. We recorded this one on April 23rd, about 11 days pre-race. We did talk about the weather forecast, but I ultimately removed it from this episode because the projections have changed dramatically since then. Other than that, before we get started, thanks to Precision, Fuel, and Hydration, they are actually one of the sponsors of Cocodona this year. They'll be out at the Sedona Posse Grounds Aid Station 2. Of course, one of their athletes in this race is the great Rachel Entrickin, who will absolutely be competing for maybe even the overall win at this year's race. She will be fueling with precision. And yeah, they're the official nutrition partner of the show. We're proud to work with them. Cocodona is on their nutrition planner too. So if you're running the race or just curious to look at what prep might look like for multi-day, go check it out at precisionhydration.com forward slash planner. And feel free to use code SINGLETRACK at checkout for 15% off your next order. Also, thanks to Norda, the official footwear partner of the show. They make my favorite trail footwear. And uh yeah, not to put Rachel Endriken under the spotlight again, but I believe she'll be repping their new 055 shoa Cocodona. There's also my good friend Jimmy Elam, who I think will be racing it, uh, sorry, racing with it later next month at the Mi Walk 100K in the Bay Area. It's certainly going to be a part of my rotation for summer projects. It's a fantastic shoe. Anyways, go check out all of their stuff at nordarun.com. This is the 2026 Cocodona 250 preview episode, joined again by friends, colleagues, Leah Yingling, Brad Hornig. Guys, this is the second time in like a week we've gotten to talk preview for a major race in our sport after like a two-month hiatus. Racing's back. Racing is back. Yeah, this is this is our second year doing the Coca-Dona preview. We also have a a live stream and a good one at that to look forward to. Yeah, before we get started, Leah, how are you doing? Where are you right now?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

I'm in Johnstown, Pennsylvania, hanging out with my parents all week. Mike is out at Ultra Trail Mount Fuji on a photo assignment. So I decided to hunker down here and get some good grandparent time for Monty while I work remote, and then I'm gonna throw down at a nice local 50K this weekend here uh in Johnstown.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Which one?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

No, it's called on the dam 50k. Classic.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

How about you, Brad? Oh I'm still getting over some gorge poison oak. Turns out I get poison oak now. So um that sucks. But we're training. Bear Bear 100 training has begun.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

And you told me offline that there's gonna be like a long, uninterrupted build to Bear.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

I mean, I've got I've got nothing on this calendar race-wise between now and September. So Well, wait, OCC though.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

No OCC?

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Uh it's TBD, it's still in the works. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

I think uh yeah, and Finn's gonna start training for Scout 100 one of these days.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

So I'm just gonna say this right now. I am so glad that I am not on the Coca-Dona Star line this year because I am not in a good spot fitness-wise, and it would just be a disaster out there. So I am so happy to be in my chair here, just making all these hot takes and calling out the people that have worked hard on that start line. Like, I'm in a I'm in a great spot right now.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Do you think if you were signed up for Coca Dona, that would have been motivation to train hard, or do you think it would you'd just you'd be as fit as you are right now, except you'd be like, well, I guess I'm running Coke Donna on Monday. The latter. It would be pretty ugly. Yeah. So you feel okay that you're not running this year?

SPEAKER_03 5:00

Yeah, and I I I I also like, even though I've done it twice, every year I do it, I feel scared and nervous. And it's nice to not feel scared and nervous 10 days out from now, like to be at the end of April chilling. It's a nice change in pace. So if you're if you are running this race 10 days from next we're recording on April 23rd, it is totally fine to feel out of sorts or nervous. Like you're about to run or walk 250 miles. Like that's it's significant.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Finn, do you have any words of encouragement for your other fellow low mileage cocaedonians out there? Because you've had great performances there off of like probably not the highest volume training. And I think in the era of ultrarunning that we're in, we see a lot of volume in these builds, but you're somebody who's had success without necessarily doing some of that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Great question. I would say two things. One, humans are built to endure. So when your back's against the wall, actually, we're all pretty good at walking two to three miles an hour in any conditions. And then I also think just like stoke and excitement can go a long way. So if you can just check the box of genuinely being excited to make the pilgrimage from Black Canyon City to downtown Flagstaff, um attitude can just take you so far. Like it will override all the lows out there that are going to happen. And I was actually telling our friend Zach Hower on a call two days ago about this. He's like, you know, what happens to the body on day one, day two, day three, all this kind of stuff. And and Lee, I'm sure you felt this at further a bunch. I I've always been amazed at how like you can be on day one at something and like your legs totally go, and you're just in this like hiking gate, but then you eat a little bit, maybe you sleep for five minutes, and then you're running again. And like those waves just come and go, and you you can't judge what's happening on day one as being this like death sentence for the rest of the way. Like it things change so much out there.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Do you think because you said like if you've got the ability to like keep moving three miles an hour, like you're gonna be solid. How many years away are we from that not being in the top 10 anymore?

SPEAKER_03 7:04

I think it's we're pretty I mean, I think my my big prediction last year was through hiking is dead as a competitive strategy. Like the through hikers are going extinct. I think I said that like word for word. I mostly said that because it just sounds great. It's like a nice little marking slogan. That probably pissed some people off.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

But sound good on a t-shirt, too.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Yeah, it looks good on a t-shirt, but I kind of mean it. And um, I mean, I think last year I even said predictions-wise, that the entire men's top ten was gonna be sub-64, which was very wrong. But uh I'm looking at the fields this year, and I think it's a lot of the same cast of characters on the men's side at least. And I I do think like five through ten on the men's side, you can still do quite a bit of hiking. It's not gonna be all 10-minute miles the whole way from Black Canyon City to to Flag. Like I think you'll see runners in the top five, and you see people who either blew up and kind of salvaged or you're through hikers hanging out there.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

I I just did some quick uh Google math, and the 10th place finisher last year, roughly, was doing close to like eight 19 minutes per mile. So, in order to finish in the top 10, that is yeah, you just gotta keep moving. Easier said than done.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

Yeah. Let me run through our predictions last year. This is this has been a thing we did for candy so I think it's kind of fun. So Leah and I said Dan Green for the win. Brett said Harry. None of us had Ryan Sands or Edder Ramirez on our men's podiums. Sorry, Ryan and Edder. We all said Courtney for the win because again, like we can't bet against Courtney, but we did all have Rachel on our podiums.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

Uh Brett had her second, Leah and I had her third. No one had Sarah Ostazuki on their podium. Times Leah said Courtney in 6430. Brett said Courtney in the 61 to 62 hour range. For some reason, I didn't make a prediction. I just asked Leah for her time. For the women, did I?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yeah, I can I feel like you definitely Yeah, I'm pretty sure you said something.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

And then men's times, Leah said Dan Green in the low sixties. Brett said probably low sixties, but slower than last year. I said Dan Green in 58-15.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Wow, that was pretty close.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Uh, but I was overly aggressive with the whole top 10. Yeah, so kind of cancels out. So those were our predictions.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

So you said top 10 under 64 last year. Is that what you just want to do?

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Yeah, because I was trying to rid the world of the through hikers at Kokadona. Like I can't say that and then say the whole top 10's going slower than that. And then you through hiked your way to fifth.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Sixth. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, okay, so Finn, maybe this is a question for you. Maybe it's a question for all of us. What did we learn from last year? What are some takeaways that will either confirm or adjust the predictions for this year?

SPEAKER_03 9:54

I think there's still a there's still a well, to me, there's still a mismatch between the popularity of the event and the star power at the event athletically. So we're still waiting for those two things to get in sync. And I still like this year, um, like we have some star power, and it's more so on the women's side. Like I think the three stars at this race are Joe McConaughey, Rachel entriken, Courtney DeWalter. I'll throw Heather Jackson in there as well. But it's it's very much like the women's side has like the star power-ish depth, and then it's been this way on the men's side forever, but like um, and I mean this in a positive way because they're all entertaining as hell, but it's a lot of like the B and C listers, and like sometimes you get an A-lister. And I do consider Joe to be in that A-lister category. Um but the mismatch is still there for me.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah, I think something we learned last year was that something Brett says all the time is when you're good at running, you're good at running. And Dan Green is someone that is good at running, and that translated to the 250-mile distance, even though a lot of people did not necessarily expect it to, and they expected a veteran of the race, a veteran of the 200-mile distance to put up a result like that. And we saw Dan Green go home with that result. And then I think I learned to never underestimate Rachel Entricken. She's another person that's proved, not that she needed to prove it this year, but that she's also very good at running with her result recently at Keonti. So I think seeing Joe McConaughey on the start line, he's somebody that I think very much fits that mold. And I think we could see him have a Dan Green-esque race this year.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Well, yeah, and in Dan's uh distance empty did a fantastic job interviewing the field at this year's race. And in Joe's interview, he even spoke to this. He said the field needs to be it needs to have three times the amount of competition at the top that it currently has to feel anywhere close to premiere. So while it's wildly entertaining, like there's no like the cast of characters in both fields are so entertaining, and I can't wait to follow it. Um, like on paper, I totally agree with what Joe's saying.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

That's a good point. Yeah. This is one of my favorite races to watch every year, and I always forget how much I love watching Coca Dona. And one of the main reasons why is that it is still long enough where I can watch it, do something for a little bit, and come back knowing I'm not gonna miss the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Um, and like I can tune in and your wife could have a baby even, and then you could just still tune in at the end of it.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Exactly. Like we started watching the race. Happy two-year-old birthday, Benji. Yep. Happy second birthday, Benji. I will never be a Coca-Dona ever again. Um no, we're gonna have to have a big flagstaff birthday party one of these years. Be cool. And do some yeah, do a big cocoa party. But um I feel like the race is long enough where it can be woven into your life pretty well, and especially with like the Coco Chronicles from last year and how quickly those were going up. And, you know, I'd tune back into the race, I'd pop open, you know, I'd have it on my computer, pop open an iPad, watch any Coco Chronicles that came out, you know, dual screen it a little bit, and then I'm caught up. The live tracking's really good. I feel like I'm it's really easy to catch up on the race.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Yeah, and I talked about this on our Trail Network podcast episode this week, but the fact that the race starts on a Monday, and I honestly I don't follow 200s as much as most people do, but it allows for people to really get out of their work days and just disconnect. And I think that's why we see such good engagement. It's when races fall mostly over a weekend, they're a little tough to follow because you know you're living your life on the weekend, but weekdays you're trying to, you know, disengage from work a little bit and put something else on, and that's when the Coca-Dona live stream happens.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

That's a great point, too. Yeah. And actually, Leah, uh, before you got pregnant, you were on the start line for one of these years. And I've always wondered like, was that year? Was it last year? Yeah. Was that just was that like downstream of your excitement from further or was it something else?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

It was. It was very much that. Uh I remember when I did sign up, I told Jamil, like, I hope he has a good maternity deferral or pregnancy deferral policy because I hope to line up, but if that were to happen, then I'd have to defer. But I, after further, actually it was mid-further, I texted Jameel, maybe at like mile 300, that said, like, I'm signing up for Cocodona next year. And he was like, Yes, let's go. So yeah, I really I do have hopes of doing it this year. It wasn't quite the year just because my volume's not where I want it to be just yet, but it's in my future.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Yeah, I remember you hit the 250 mile mark and we looked at it and we're like, you're actually under the Cocodona course record. I mean, I know this is flatter, and but you like you slept a whole night. You like threw up a whole bunch, you rallied twice. I'm like, you're under the course record still. Yeah, we could do this.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Okay. My top one of my top storylines heading into this year's race is on the men's side, the defending champion is not back, so the field is relatively wide open. Dan Green is not on the start line. We do have the champions from 21, 22, and 23 here, Versteag, Stringbean, and McKnight. But in terms of a defending champion not being here, it's it's wide open. And then on the women's side, Rachel Entrikken going for the three-peat. And the fact that she's done it in different eras where like she ran it in like 72-ish in 24 and then has this like nutritional revolution and runs it in 63 high last year. And now she's a dappable pro and a full-time pro.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

So yeah, this is probably more a question for Rachel, but maybe you guys have some insight here. Do you think how people train for Coca-Dona has changed in the last three years?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

I've been I looked at a lot of Strava profiles this afternoon. Like I probably looked at 30 or 40 people on this entrance list to see, and you know, or I'm assuming that everyone's putting everything on Strava. And one, everybody's training like very different. Yeah, like you look at Western states training and you're like, these people are all training for Western states, they're all doing the same thing. Coca-Dona, it's all over the place. And I remember seeing that in each of the last few years, I I feel like not much has changed. Like there's some people that don't run that much. There's some people that run a lot with no vert, some people that run not that much, but a lot of vert. And there's some people that run a lot with a lot of vert. And I've found no correlation to the results.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Of the one of the ones that you've analyzed, has there been I'm not going to say you're endorsing it, but has there been a particular strategy to get to the start line that has intrigued you the most?

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Well, it's almost like the ones that I'm expecting to perform well are the ones with somewhat more um conventional training, like kind of like Dan last year, where I remember he was still ripping threshold miles at like 520, 530 a month out from the race, because that's just like his floor. That's just his fitness. Um, Joe McConaughey, same way. His you look at, he's done a lot of different types of running. He's not leaning into any one particular thing. Like he would still do flat tempo days, a couple track workouts, hill workouts. He had a couple, he had a one or two 50 mile, like just long training days, which I think is smart. I like that approach instead of hopping into a race because then you just get to really be in control of everything. Um, and all of that to me, just like Joe's really fit. I bet if Coca Dona got shortened to 100k, he'd still be my pick to win it. Like he's good at he's really good at running right now.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah, and that was something I think Dan Green said this in his uh I think free trail interview was at like leading into Coca-Dona last year, he had this mindset of like, no one's training like me right now, and I think that's an advantage. And part of me does wonder, it's kind of uh similar to Joe this year. Nobody is quite training like him, and I think it could lead to uh great success for him just being what I think he even would consider the fittest version of himself that he has seen in years.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

I'm really curious to see uh, like for example, I've been really it's been interesting to watch Heather Jackson's build for this and her decision, for example, to throw in a pretty impressive fast 100k trail performance at Desert Rats last weekend. Uh same thing with Rachel Entricken at Whiskey Basin, Versteag at Whiskey Basin, both running 90 kilometers, you know, two, three weeks out from the race. And so again, I don't know what to believe, what works, what doesn't, but just interesting that like that's a that's a strategy.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

It's interesting. There's been yeah, now that I'm going, I'm just like looking through my names, and we'll dive deeper into the names, I'm sure, in a sec. But yeah, like I think a lot of my podium podiums are just going to reflect some of the people who've had the most consistent and solid training on Strava and haven't done anything super crazy. Although now I'm feeling the pressure of needing to throw one of those in into the mix of like a wild card pick.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Before we get into course and field stuff though, um maybe starting with Yulia, if you had to pick one thing about this year's event that you're most excited about or most curious about, what comes to mind?

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Courtney. I'm just yeah, what else could there be? I'm curious. I'm curious to see, you know, on your interview with her uh recently, Finn, you're talking about just like her jumping into Keonti and just seeing her not only hang with the competition there, but have this late in the race surge to win it all. And she alluded to her CIM training really helping her give her give her more that like more like things in her quiver uh to tap into. And I think she now has a full year of like almost like a new skill set and a reset that I'm curious to see how she competes at this distance again with all her learnings from last year and over uh the course of last year's season.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

The reset piece is so cool. And so yeah, it's like I'm I I want to hear I want to hear a post-race interview after this year's coconut of like what were the major adjustments that you made after last year? Like, what did you learn? Please have learned something. I want to see this race. I want to see this race go beyond 100 miles. Yeah, I mean I I think really the thing I'm most intrigued about is where Courtney is going to fall amongst this field now. Like I feel like last year we were calling it Courtney's race to lose because we were not all full-fledged Rachel believers. But then after seeing Rachel's run last year and then all the races she had, and then you know, lining up against Courtney at Keonti, which I would say that course would favor Courtney way more. And Courtney barely beat Rachel. It's like is beating Rachel by was it five or ten minutes at Keonti, is that a good enough gap at that distance and at that fitness level to hold off Rachel for Coca-Dona? What do you think? I mean, I feel like that would be completely spoiling my picks. Stay tuned. Stay tuned, stay tuned, and ad break. Keep listening. This episode is brought to you by Immodium.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

The one last thing I'll say on the training stuff is it I I have noticed an increase in the number of people who are being like self-conscious and analytical about their training. And like I've always said you could draw like a direct line from 2022 Joe McConaughey here, and then Jeff Browning studying Joe McConaughey on the live stream at that race, applying it to his 2024, everyone seeing Jeff do what he does, and there's just like this explosion of just interest in thinking like very specifically and deeply about every single category of the sleep logistics crew.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Here's a question for you, Finn, and then we can probably dive into the meat of the episode. But do you think there's such a thing as being too analytical with Coca-Dona? The reason I ask is I actually haven't consumed much Killian Court content over the last couple years. I started digging into his substack, and he's a very analytical guy, especially as he was breaking down his builds and his like even like perceived exertion over these training blocks of uh this block compared to Tahoe last year. And it seemed quite analytical, and from my perspective, I would argue overly analytical. So did you ever find yourself lining up for Coca-Dona with having a bunch of numbers swimming in your mind that you almost feel like you need to throw all that out the window and just let be what will be?

SPEAKER_03 23:32

Great question. I I feel like both ways can be therapeutical. I am the goldfish where I'm I'm pretty d-I just I'm pretty dumb on race day, and that is my therapy. It's just being dumb and going out there and empty mind. And I do feel like there for some people, just crunching the numbers and taking care of every nook and cranny of the crew plan, that is equally therapeutic, and that is what puts them in a good place.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Man, if you're calling someone overly analytical, Leah, that's like aren't you pretty analytical?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

That's what I'm saying. It seems like a lot.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Well, I guess I think it's okay to have that, but you also have to be okay with a pivot and like potentially readjusting things. Um what comes to mind is 2023 Michael McKnight, the greatest comeback in the history of sports. Where yeah, like he just like he like forgot his electrolytes at the start and just like had a terrible day one and then had to just wing it for the next two days and pick off like 50 people. Um and I think the last person that he passed was Killian Corth. Is that right, Finn?

SPEAKER_03 24:44

Killian was uh just outside of Fort Tuttle, and I think we were on the call when it happened.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yeah. Um yeah, I guess you just I feel like you just gotta be okay with uh with having to wing it out there, but I think to an extent it's good to go in with some sort of plan.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

Should I take us into some course stuff?

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah, yeah, because I was thinking about like in terms of just planning, I was like, yeah, you can't it's hard to wing it with the weather and the fluid and the aid station distances and the first 80 miles.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

I I'll talk about day one on the course first and we can kind of go from there. But I think one of the craziest things about Coca-Dona is how self-supported you have to be on day one. Like if you think about the start all the way to Whiskey Row and Prescott, over those 80 miles in between, you see your crew one time at Crown King. So for the first 80 miles, you're reliant on aid stations and um sticking to your own plan, which again, like you can start to categorize people and just think about like how responsible they are in those types of situations because yeah, like day one of a two to three day event, uh, you can make a lot of mistakes on that first day. Um you have a lot of support in the middle of this race, the aid stations get a lot more frequent, but uh another change for this year is the last 16 miles are once again unpaced. So there are a couple places historically in the race. Um from Schneebly Park, I think, to Munns Park has typically been where you can't take a pacer that's like 167 or 176 to 190. And then again, it was like Fort Tothill to wasn't Wildcat, it was uh the station before that. It was another 17-mile section leaf, but 234 to the finish, you can't take a pacer, which is the section where you're going up over down Eldon. Is that new? Um that is new, and I and it might have to do with permitting issues. I think it's like the spotted owl stuff. Is it the owls again? Probably the owls again. But that's a made that actually I should say that that's not a small change. That's a major change. Not having a pacer for the very last section of Kokodona, one of the hardest sections on the course. It's a really long winding climb up to the Elden Ridge, and then uh down a pretty technical descent into Flag. Last year when I was on it, I was really glad I had a pacer. It was snowing. Um Yeah, do you think that could be dangerous at all? Totally.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

I mean, it's like I guess you sign the waiver.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Yeah. Otherwise, it's a quite I mean, it's a quite runnable race. Um, you climb just under 39,000 feet over 253 miles. There's these really long sections on the Senator Highway. Um, there's a gradual uphill between Jerome and Sedona, it's like 40 miles long. Most of the Coconino Plateau before Eldon is very runnable. So I do classify it generally as a runner's race. There's just sort of like that really rugged section from the start to Crown King, the climb up Mount Union, the climb up Mingus down into Jerome, the climb from Sedona up onto the plateau in Eldon. So there's like, it's I it's like punctuated equilibrium. You know, there's like there are these big, significant climbs and descents, but for the most part, long stretches of running. So you hear all these people talking on distance to empty and other preview shows, preview interviews, and like I think a lot of people are getting the memo that you do have to be a really good runner coming into this race.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

And for reference, last year you guys might know the split a little bit better, but the leaders came through 100 miles in like 17 to 18 hours, which is fast. That's a good 100.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Yeah, and and and paid the price. You know, I mean, uh Harry Harry actually had a pretty nice micro fade. He finished in fifth after like really aggressively running that first day. Courtney DNF'd at 108 after she took the overall lead around 70. Um, but yeah, really, really, really hot perform um performances out of the gate. Dan was actually kind of patient on that first day.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah, that was gonna be my question. Was did collectively the front pack go out too fast last year, or do you think that pace is appropriate? Um, and it'll just take a couple years for the like fitness and 200 mile experience to back it up? Or was that just like for the most part too fast?

SPEAKER_03 29:08

I think it could probably work better this year. I think all of us didn't realize how bad it was going to get out there weatherwise, and maybe didn't quite think about the conditions and what gear to take and when to take stuff, you know, put stuff on, take stuff off. Um yeah, I was not expecting to get hit with like, you know, 20, 30 degrees in the middle of the Bradshaws and snow and the amount of mud. It was it was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Yeah, that's probably something that zero people like practiced for um on race day. I'm really curious to see, because though everyone talked about how terrible the weather was last year. It was cold and snowy and muddy and rainy. Both course records went down, though. So I'm really curious. Was it just that the level of competition got elevated again last year? Or was that weather actually faster still than a normal Cocodona year, even though it was unexpected and uncomfortable?

SPEAKER_03 30:05

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SPEAKER_01 31:21

I'm really curious to see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Yeah, because I do think this year we'll have Coca-Dona weather, like average Kokodona weather, and an elevated competition again. And yeah, will those times be faster because are these hotter conditions faster, or were those colder conditions faster? The mud was bad last year.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

The mud was bad last year, but like I'm just thinking, I'm curious when it's that much cooler, you're just going through fluid so much less. And if you can run 250 miles with an average of say two pounds less water, potentially even more, on you the whole time. That I don't know, in my head, I'm doing zero math, but that feels faster to me, even when you add in the mud. Um, like the potential of less stomach issues due to the weather, the potential of less hydration issues due to the weather. And then you just add some slick mud and hope that it doesn't like piss you off too much over like what you I mean, you spent most of your Coca-Dona build last year trying to figure out how to fit 17 soft flats into your starting pack, and then you were like weak of the race, you're like, oh wait, I don't need any of this.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Wait, is that true?

SPEAKER_01 32:44

I don't think I think 17 is it was it was a lot.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

I mean, it was there was yeah, that first 50k is uh quite a logistical challenge in the hotter years. Well, because you didn't want to go for like a bladder. You were like, I'm not a bladder guy, I'm a soft bottom. Yeah, I mean the bladder kind of failed me. I had some bladder issues in many ways. You were like, I need to be able to flex eight soft bottles in my back. I yeah, I actually I mean, Brad, that's a great point. I I mean I liked the weather last year better. It was easier for me to move in those conditions than in the hotter year. Uh there were sections where the mud was really bad and you should have been able to run five to six miles an hour and you were topping out at three miles an hour out of necessity. So there was time loss there. The course was also seven miles longer than it was the year before, and people's called. The course records still went down. The course records still went down. So yeah, I think there's a lot of actual arguments that last year was a faster course. I mean, for sure the women's field was better, but the men's field was not. I actually think last year the men's field was almost like a regression over the previous year.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

With the exception of the exception of Dan Green.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

Yeah. Well, it's like Dan replaced Joe. Dan was last year's Joe. And you didn't have Jeff Browning, didn't have Arlene Glick, didn't have a lot of like key people that were gonna be up there to hold the front accountable. So yeah, it's a good, I mean, possibly. Possibly. I think one thing that is gonna change quite a bit this year is sleep strategy. I think if you look at Dan's performance last year, he did it on less than an hour of sleep. So I think he sort of broke the assumption that sleep strategy and getting an adequate amount of sleep at various key points is a key factor at the front of the race. I think, especially if people are thinking about running into the mid-50s here, you could see almost none. Or you could see these like five-minute dirt naps, 10-minute dirt naps be the thing. It's like instead of people being like, I'm gonna have a plan to stop at Fort Tuthill and sleep for this long, or I'm gonna stop at Fane Ranch and sleep for this long, I don't think that's gonna be a winning strategy this year.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Just winning that's how Joe won in 2022. Didn't he only sleep for like 15 minutes?

SPEAKER_03 35:01

Yeah. I think trouble, he's had trouble sleeping. Like the I would say yeah, he can't push the child for yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

And yeah, I think maybe it was in the chase where he was talking about how he had all these planned sleeps, but then he'd lie down and be like, can't sleep. So I wonder if he'll wing it, which going kind of going back to the weather, when it's last year it was not good dirt nap weather. I remember a lot of people having to keep moving because it's like I can't sleep on the trail because I'm not gonna wake up because I'll get hypothermia and die. And then there's that added stress of like I gotta make it to the aid station, and then when I'm at the aid station, I have to sleep. Whereas under normal Coca-Dona weather, you can just sleep when you feel like it.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Before we go on, Leah, does anything else about the course or strategy around it stick out to you?

SPEAKER_00 35:58

I'm just yeah, I'm curious if we'll see that hot early pace duplicated this year. Like, did people think that led to success and will they try to replicate that? It's a question mark for me. And I know we'll dig into women's and men's field, but um, I think somebody like Meg Eckert is uh there I think Courtney and Rachel battle is going to get a lot of attention, but I think Meg Eckert is a really cool candidate for uh a challenger for both of them.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Okay, here's a question. Do you think Courtney's hundred mile split will be any slower than last year?

SPEAKER_00 36:37

I don't think so either.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

I don't think so either.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

For some reason, I feel like I If it is, it would be due to the weather. I don't think it'd be an effort. I think she will approach it exactly how she planned on approaching it last year, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Yeah, yeah. If I if I were to take a guess, I would say that her DNF was not the result of lack of fitness.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

I think on the men's side, everyone's gonna congregate around Joe. They're gonna kinda do as Joe does, at least on the first day. Like no one's gonna want to be ahead of Joe going into Crown King.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

People will be though.

SPEAKER_03 37:16

They will be. Yeah, they will be.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

But Oh, what was this note? So I don't know where this falls in the episode. Maybe tell me if we need to curb this for later, but you said that you would you would listen to a lot of preview interviews, and that uh on both the men's and women's side, it seemed like it was pretty collectively agreed upon that the course records were going down.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Yeah. Uh DJ Fox, Killian Corth, Adam Kimball on the men's side all said it. Rachel said it, Lila said it on the woman's side. So yeah, there is a fair bit of consensus at the front of both races. And not everyone in that group was saying that they were going to do it, but they all believed that this was gonna be a course record year. They they expect the pace to be hot and that you know, new standards to be set. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Yeah, because I was like, I'm okay with Rachel like calling that shot because she did it and like broke the course record ballot. But like some of these other guys talking about like, oh yeah, I'm definitely breaking 58 hours. I'm like, based off what? Like, that's so disrespectful to Dan Green as a runner. Like, where's your 13-hour javelina? So you you're you're you're doubting the men's side. Well, not all of them, but there's definitely a handful where it's like you ran 70 hours last year, and now you're gonna run 58, and your basis for that is will Rachel improve by eight hours? So I will improve by more than that? Like, did any of them then have the rest of the year that Rachel had? No. So I just I I don't know, it just seems it's insulting to Dan Green's run, in my opinion. And I hope I'm wrong because I like seeing good racing, but I just don't know off like what evidence that's gonna happen other than just like vibes.

SPEAKER_03 39:29

On the men's side, the consensus, everyone's revolving around 55 to 56 hours, and on the women's side, sub-60. Rachel's thinking.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

For reference, we should probably call out the course records as they stand right now, or Dan Green last year, 58 hours, 47 minutes. And then on the women's side, Rachel Huntricken last year, 63 hours, 50 minutes. So when they're saying sub-58, that'd be cutting close to an hour off of Dan's time. And what was the time Rachel threw out that she thinks could be a course?

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Sub-60. Sub-60.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Yeah, that'd be taking four hours off this year.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Yes, like, and that's a lot of time, but at least Rachel's like taken that big amount of time off. Like she's done something no one's done before, so she might have a little bit more accurate idea of like, oh yeah, I can definitely take more time off on these spots.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Um, I think the only person that I don't know, it seems like they could probably do it is Joe. So anyone else would be a big surprise.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

Yeah, like uh Killian Court, he just put out a substack a few days ago, I believe. It's just like sort of reviewing his training to date. And his A goal is 55 hours, and his justification for that is when he ran the Bigfoot 200 last year, his elapsed pace was 1420 per mile on what he believes is a harder, more rugged, more mountainous course. And 55 hours of coca donor requires about a 13-minute elapsed pace. So he thinks that just based on the change in course and easier course, he can run about a minute 20 per mile faster.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

80 seconds a mile. I come from a track world, that is so much time. Like 80 seconds per mile, that's 20 seconds per lap. 10 seconds per 200. If Usain Bolt knocked 10 seconds off his 200, he would have cut his world record in half. Like 80 seconds per mile? I don't know. That's that's a big jump. Like I appreciate trying to rationalize that. But that's massive. I mean, maybe while someone cuts me off and says something, I'll try and figure out like what percentage of time is that off the whole race. Go to the calculator, go to the calculator. I mean it's it's it's like eight percent. Yes, in my doing mental math right now. It's like that's one.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

Let's let's go to the women's field. Let's start there. Um I I mean, I'll I'll throw it out to you, Leah. I'll just say overhead. I think that this is a at least at the very top, you know, a stronger field in the men's side, more star power.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

I think so too. And I think we'll see more head-to-head battles throughout in this field compared to the men's field. Like I think by the end of the race, the men's field will have one to three, maybe kind of like in it, with one likely breaking away. So really only one truly interesting race up front, maybe. But the women, I think we're gonna see a lot of changes, and I think it'll be dynamic. So we've got uh Rachel and Trickin coming back for the three-peat, like we talked about, Courtney DeWalter hoping for redemption from last year, Heather Jackson, uh Mika Thews, Meg Eckert, Heather Jackson, um Manuela Manuela Veleska, I believe. And I think that is oh, and Lindsay Dwyer. I think those are the heaviest hitters in this group who have either documented success at this race or documented success at similar races or 100 miles or just world stage. And a few people like have somebody like Heather Jackson debuting at this distance makes it interesting. Yeah, I think a lot of just characters in this field.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Yeah, it's super dynamic. Just the the range of uh runner type that is lining up and could all actually be successful here. I mean, you'd mentioned Meg Eckert, like Meg has uh some of the most experience at distances longer than Coca Done. Which that's gotta feel good when you're lining up to a race, and it's not there's not a ton of mystery of it being the longest thing you've ever done. I mean you're coming off with six-day world record.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Six hundred three miles.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah, like that's 100 miles a day for six days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You of all people like understand that much more in depth than many other people just reading about it.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

It's I think that's a wild achievement. And I had a ballot for Ultrarunner of the Year this year, and I I thought that was the performance of the year last year. It was incredible and kind of breaks your brain when you think about it. So while I think Meg has a lot of that experience beyond this distance, I think where she's had the most success have been in more of those controlled environments and the standardized formats. She does race a lot, like races a lot of trail races and things like that. So she's no stranger to the trails, but I think her greatest success has been in that format, um, the fixed time and the multi-day. So very curious to see when she puts it all together and against a highly competitive field, what exactly that will look like.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Yeah, I was scrolling through her ultra sign up and I didn't quite realize the range of races that she's done in the past just because she's been on fire at the like timed backyard, those sorts of races through like 2025. But even looking through like even 2024 and older, like there's a lot of really beefy trail races on there. And prior to that, she hadn't uh really run on this elite of a level on the flatter stuff. So to me, this kind of almost feels like the first time we're getting to see this like combination of past trail experience plus new, just like ultra baller talent getting into Cocodona.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

She did a lap at Barclay this past uh February, which I think is actually great experience for the first 50k of Kokadona. Obviously, Barclay being way more difficult, uncertain, unforgiving, challenging. But I think even just to get that lap there in lead up to this, like just I think it sets her up really for a much more manageable, less stressful, less intimidating day one here. I also didn't realize that she ran the Antelope Island Buffalo run, 100 miler. I saw that last year and got second. So I will must have been Ashley Paulson or something who got who took the win there that year. Because 1735 at Buffalo, pretty nice. 100 mile. Um sorry, getting self-promotional. Uh I really wanted to just say a quick blurb about Heather Jackson. I think we're still in the era for pros at her level where if you're doing Coca-Dona, you're probably there for the right reasons. Because I'm I'm I'm just guessing, and this would extend to Hoka, a lot of the other major brands. I'm not sure all the major brands are totally behind it yet in terms of like the max incentive structures. So I think for Heather, like, yeah, the excitement and curiosity must be there, which I maintain is a massive competitive advantage. So yeah, she's a rookie at this distance, and there's like a ton of uncertainty. But the fact that like she genuinely wants to be here, I'm guessing, and is willing to figure it out, I think that counts for a lot. So rookie, yes, but excitement factor.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

And we've seen Heather be a rookie and prove success time and time again. Like when she first lined up at you know Black Canyon and Havelina, we were kind of questioning how she would execute those races and like she blew them out of the water. And then same thing with like OCC, CCC, UTMD, when she lined up at those. I wouldn't really say trails were her forte at that time, and she held her own, and I think was fifth at OCC, even the one year, which is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Yeah, she does approach everything with a very high level of professionalism. Which I'm curious what that I would love to take a look at what her training has looked like for Coca Donna. Because I mean she's got a ton of experienced, you know, coaches and people in her corner to talk to about all the types of races she's done. And I'm I would guarantee that her training probably looks nothing like anyone else is leading into this race.

SPEAKER_03 48:43

I'm also hoping that Mika Thuze gets it right this year. Um 2024, Mika and Joe were like 2025, Harry and Courtney for on running. And if Mika hadn't taken a really unfortunate fall, I think it was shortly after Fort Tuttle, and basically had to like leave the course, go stay at a hotel, recover, and then come back on the course. I think she still finished like fourth or something. Yeah. Uh she was on pace easily to run in that like 66 to 68 hour range. So she would have had she would have set a pretty significant new course record. And yeah, like I think we'd be thinking a little bit differently generally about the history of the women's field here. So I don't know if she has the ability to get sub-60 like Rachel's end aiming for, but I think that she could be this really serious, uh like mid-60s type candidate, and depending on how everything shakes out, you know, competing definitely for a podium.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Yeah, and she's somebody that like is, I would say, a 200-mile specialist, like has succeeded and won many of the races over the years, had a sixth-place finish even at Tour de Jant uh just a year or two back, and uh yeah, has that experience, knows how to get it done, uh, just needs to keep it together and uninjured for the full distance there.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

This has been the one course I feel like in all of her 200-mile excursions that just like hasn't quite clicked. It's like the one that she still is yet to get right, so maybe this is the year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Yeah, because she's won all of the other ones.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

Yeah, Tahoe, Bigfoot, the divide.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

She won Moab. I feel like she probably won Moab.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

It's I it's crazy with this women's field that I believe that we could actually there's a world where we could see either an entirely or mostly majority, like overall women's podium. But like in the women's field, I see slightly less like B and C tier depth that I do see on the men's side.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Yeah, I mean, a lot of these women that are running Kokodona have proven outside of Kokodona or 200 mile races they're elite level running. Yeah. Which I think that's still a lot of the main argument is like, do you need to be good at running hundreds to be good at running 200s? Where do you come down on that right now? I say yes, because as 200s get better and more competitive, they're only gonna get faster. And if you want to win these, you better be good at running. And if you're good enough at running to win one of these, you're probably good enough at running to win some decent hundreds or place pretty competitive in them. I mean, that's is oftentimes the case with most other running events. Like the best hundred milers can absolutely throw down at 50 miles. The best milers in the world, pretty good at running the 800. Best marathoners are pretty good at running the half marathon. That's just kind of how it works. So you don't buy the specialist argument.

SPEAKER_03 51:51

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SPEAKER_01 52:36

I I no, not for like over like a blanket statement. Like I buy 200 mile specificity in some way or another in your training block leading up to the 200 mile. But I also buy that, you know, six weeks out from the race, if they're like, oh yeah, it's 100 mile, you should be able to pivot and then all of a sudden be pretty good at running 100 miles by the time race day comes around. What do you think, Leah?

SPEAKER_00 53:03

I agree with that. I do think there is a certain amount of experience that helps and aids your performance and can cut off time. I think, like we saw Jimmy Elam at Mammoth 200 this year have a great race, win it overall, uh take his time at a lot of the aid stations. And I think speaking with him post-race, he kind of knows where to cut off time if he were to go back and attempt a 200 again. And I think that's the benefit of being a veteran at this distance is having that retrospective perspective, applying it forward and saying, hey, I know how to cut aid station times, I know where, yeah, where to move fast, where to take your time, when to take breaks, if to take breaks. And I think that is beneficial in the long run. But Dan Green showed us last year that it's not a necessity.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

Should we go to uh picks, predictions, times here?

unknown 53:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

I didn't write anything down, but I think I think I got it. I'm going Leah style here. The best way.

SPEAKER_03 54:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

Uh oh, should I should I go first?

SPEAKER_03 54:11

So let's do let's go overall. Oh yeah, winner podium time, yes or no course record.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

Okay. Um okay. I think Rachel Enterkin is going to get that three P. And I do think that she is going to run like 6130. I think she'll PR by like two hours. Um and I think that after the race is over, it'll be worth more than that because we'll learn that last year's conditions ended up actually being more favorable. So like a two-hour course record will be worth like four or five from last year. I think Courtney DeWalter is going to get second place. I don't think Courtney, I don't think Courtney drops twice. Um, you know, it would it would have to be like injury related. And I don't know. I Courtney Chianti was good. Like that was so that had me fired up because it's like there were some question marks about like a couple of Courtney performances, and then a couple marathons, I'm fast again, and then all of a sudden it's like, look at me, I can kick at the end of an ultra. Check that out. That was sick. So is it good enough to actually run away from Rachel on what I would consider Rachel's course? I don't think so. Um I think Courtney will be probably around Rachel's time from last year. So I think it'd probably be Rachel's victory by like one or two hours. And then to round out my podium. Oh, I lost my time. I think I'm gonna go Meg Eckert. I think Meg will be within that 65 hour range. So it's gonna be the fastest, fastest women's podium ever. And it's gonna stay pretty close, like through at least Sedona. I I bet we see one more podium shake up after after Sedona. Leah, can I go next?

SPEAKER_00 56:21

Yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

Okay. Brett, I'm very close with you. Oh, okay. But I've actually I'm switching. I'm I got Courtney for the win. But I the the thing that I feel the most confident about is that when we do our year-end review, we're gonna look back at the battle between Courtney and Rachel at Cocodona as one of the most fun matchups to witness in any race this year, all year.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

That nobody got to witness.

SPEAKER_03 56:51

Exactly. Yeah, we didn't get to see Keanti, but we got to see Cocodona. And I think it's gonna be so close all race. I think we're there's gonna be many times on day one, day two, into day three where they are running neck and neck and very close together. I think Courtney wins in 59-25. I think Rachel is very close behind in 59-45, and Mika Thews, distant but still impressive 63-40. One last thing I'll say about the Rachel and Courtney piece. It's so like Courtney at 41 is like the best runner she's ever been, theoretically. I mean, she just PR'd in the marathon, had this massive marathon block. She's faster, she has more tools in her toolkit. Um, you know, her endurance pace is probably a lot faster than it's ever been, all that kind of stuff. And at the same time, Rachel has been leveling up too. Like last year it was a nutrition thing. I've seen her on Straba doing work like speed workouts with Addie Bracey and just like getting more experience in the mix at more competitive races like Keonti. So, like both of these runners have been doing everything in their power to just like get better for this moment. And so, in a lot of ways, I think it is like a toss-up. So I'm really picking Courtney mostly because gotta pick one, and I don't know. It's a truly a toss-up team, but I'm picking Courtney.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

Because you'll never bet against Courtney ever again after Bandera.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

Yeah, after my after my bandera trauma. There's a lot of parallels with Courtney and Rachel. Like the way they're both doing a lot to get better. But well, they the way that they train, the way that they race, it's like very vibes-based. And they're like happy go lucky during the race, but like at the same time, you know, there's this like inner demon that's wants to just bash skulls, but like it'll be while smiling. Um, and I I don't know, like, I don't know how you separate one from the other in terms of a win, other than it's just like it really feels like it's like someone's just gonna have to crack going back to bashing schools. Like, I yeah, who's gonna crack? You think it's Rachel, and I think it's Courtney. Leah, what do you think? Yeah, who's what's the tiebreaker? You're the right. It's neither.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

I don't think either of them are gonna crack. I think they're both gonna have great races. I, for once in my life, have the Finn line of thinking here. And I do think Courtney will win. I think Rachel will be second, and I think Meg Eckert will be third. My argument here is okay, Rachel races a lot. Courtney also races a good bit, but I feel like that Keanti was like Rachel dug deep at that race, probably more so than she ever has had to in races to date that she's then like doubled back from and recovered and went back to training from. Whereas we've seen Courtney do that a lot. We've seen Courtney do that at Western States Hard Rock right into UTMB, where she guts herself in one race, lines up, guts herself again, and then does it all over again and does it with great success. So I have a little bit more confidence that Courtney can show up mentally recharged, physically recharge, and building off of Keonti without Keanti taking too much out of her. Whereas if yeah, I don't know, I don't know how Rachel's feeling. I should ask her personally. But I could see that Keonti maybe like took more out of her than you know, her doing one of her normal like March-April races that she typically does.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

I think that's a fair statement because like that was the first race she didn't win in like three years. And if you won all the other races, there's maybe the argument that if you were pushed more, you could have finished closer to empty. Where this one, like probably did.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:56

Well, like Leah, let me ask you like when you got that golden ticket at Canyons back in 22, like that to me felt like one of like your first signature like big stage performances. Did that feel more taxing than previous stuff, like the bear?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

Uh no, because I ran it well. So I think that is actually very important. I think Rachel, Courtney, Ingvil, they all ran Chianti quite well. And it wasn't like any of them had these major macro fades. So that's kind of a counterargument to the point that I just made that they all raced that race and executed it extremely well. Um, so my argument would probably stand stronger if Rachel had like a big bonk and suffered to the finish line there, but she didn't. She held on quite well. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

It's gonna be great. You know who has been on what I feel like would be a pretty good upward trajectory since Kocadona last year, and that's uh Lindsay Dwyer.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:57

Her training is wild.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

But if you look at her race results, um, I'm sure there's been a few more, but like second at Cocodona, 7935, but then a top 20 at UTMB, and then a course record at Rio del Lago in 1551 with the overall win.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:16

That's a fast time at Rio de Lago.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:18

That's really fast.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

I feel like you take the Cocoa experience, good Euro, big UTMB experience, and then rip a fast hundred at the end of the year. Like, I feel like when you put all that up in a blender and make a smoothie, it like comes out like Coca-Dona flavored. Probably pretty fast. I mean too. Um I it wouldn't surprise me to see Lindsay like mixing it up with some of these big names. And Leah, like you, it's that if you want to follow someone for motivation on Strava, follow Lindsay. Her training is sick.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

Yeah, she had uh she's had 11 weeks above 100 miles since January 1st, and she's peaked at 156 miles in 27 hours, and that was just a couple weeks ago. And most of her weeks are 120 plus miles with vert, too. With like 20 grand of vert, like yeah, I feel like her eight-week rolling average is like 130 with 20,000 feet of I was going to make the argument on this podcast that if you combine the three of our training, we still wouldn't accumulate to what she gets in a week. And I think that's probably accurate.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

Yeah, that's probably right. Before we go to the men's field, I'll mention one more name. Sort of a hometown hero, uh Lila Godro, who was actually based in Cape or from Cablesmith, Maine, where I grew up. We're about 10 years apart, but same town. Also an amazing Strabograph. If you look at her training, dating back to October of last year, she has only had one week under 100 miles. And that was a 97.6 mile week over Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

Had some Andy Glades level running right there.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:14

Yeah. 23 years old, self-coached, uh, just like metronomic on the weekly mileage train. Did a distance to empty interview, says she doesn't really have a training plane, just kind of goes out and runs for the love of the game. Wait, she's 23.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

Oh I was looking, I thought she was 41, but that's the number of results she has on ultra sign up. That's like even more impressive now. Yeah, and she's in 10 years. And I was like, oh, 10 years older than you, because 41, like that's close enough. And then, but now that I'm looking at them, like, no, we have 41 results.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

Uh I uh I'm pretty sure I raised her at the ragged 50k in New Hampshire a couple years ago. And what stood out the most, there's a couple things. She's a very fast strong runner, and she was like 19 at the time, but she was wearing like cross-country flats for the ragged 50k. And that course is pretty technical. And I just remember we started out on this like double track road to start, and I was just hearing like that smack, smack, smack of like flats. I was like, oh, this is so impressive, but also sounds like the most cooling way to run a technical 50k in New Hampshire. So she races a lot. It's resilience.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:27

She races a lot and she wins a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:31

So that's a good pick, Finn. Shout out. Uh Bright, you want to take us into the men's field here? Like uh, what's your what's your headline for this men's field?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:41

Joe versus everyone. Um I think my headline for the men's field is that there's a there's a good size clash of people under 30 and people. Over 40. And that 30s decade is not being represented very well. But there is so like there's a lot of very experienced runners. There's a lot of uh Kokodona returners. And then there's some. I'm trying to think there's there's a few new new names to the Cocodona Starless, but more than half, almost three quarters of the names that I have written down are all people who have run Kokodona before. Um whether that was, you know, just la I mean just from last year, I've got seven uh five from the top ten. So if I just roll through that, um Edder Ramirez was third M3 last year. When I yeah, it was going with the M's for this one, uh, because yeah, the places are all over the place. DJ Fox was M6, Cody Postkin was M7, Michael McNight was M8, Jeff Garmeyer was M9, and then Michael Verstig, I have as a returner, although he DNF'd last year, but he was fifth in 2024. He just doesn't know how to not start this race, huh? Um and then Max Joliff. I'm putting him in the returner category, even though he had a very brutal DNF at mile, like I mean, he was at the hospital there like one mile away from the finish. Uh, and everyone that was very dramatic because he got driven to the hospital from was it that final aid station or the second to last aid station right on the other side of um Eldon. But a lot of people who like woke up the next morning and are like looking in the chat just see his tracker being still on the course with one mile to go for like eight hours, and everyone's like someone surely could see him right now. Like, he's one mile out, he's in town. Give us an update. But it's like, no, you're actually not seeing him on the course because he's on the third floor up in the window up there looking at people coming in, um, which is brutal. Like, I that was the Finn versus Max. I did not know that story. I did not know that story. Oh, yeah, because you were out there, you were just out there running. But like everyone in the chat's like, what's happening with Max's tracker? Like, it must be broken. Why did it do that? It looks like it because it looks like it skipped Eldon, which like a tracker could totally just ping wrong. But it was like, no, it's because he's in the hospital right now, guys. Um, so I I I want to see Max get his get his redemption um over last year. I mean, he did rally back to a solid third at Mammoth. Um, so those are all the returners from last year, and then a couple other returners from just Coca-Donuts, like Joe McConaughey got, you know, he won in 2022, was fourth in 2024, and then Jeff Browning, who was second in 2024, who honestly, Jeff's training has been looking very good on Strava Like. I feel like this is one of the better training blocks that I've seen out of him in a while. Um, I feel like he's got a bone to pick with this course. I mean, if I'm surely everyone who's watching or listening to this has seen the chase. And I feel like that that loss like shook him a little bit. Like I bet I bet he watches that movie every morning when he wakes up. Just as like a reminder. Because he's very competitive. Oh he is so competitive. And very professional. Again, like one of those like he's a very professional athlete. He does he does all the little things and he understands like where he's at in his career. All those little things become are that much more important.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:09

Yeah, listening to his distance to empty interview, I got the sense that he feels very in the driver's seat for his own performance at this race, and that he can take sort of the while everyone else is stressing out and thinking about what who's gonna win pacing, he can take this like 10,000 foot view. And it was fun to hear him just commentate on like what he thinks is gonna happen out there, and how to me it seems like he sees his role this year as just being like the sweeper, like he will be competitive, and I don't know if he's in it for the win necessarily, but um, I could see him being like a mid to low 60s guy who finishes honor very close to the podium, but it's a very tactical, surgical, like people fall back to him type race, and he's laughing the whole way.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

I'm sure Jeff thinks he's going in this to win it. I mean, I that'd be that'd be amazing. I would I can't imagine he's thinking I would be happy with third. Like Jeff's coming back here to win.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:07

It killed him not to be out there last year, I know that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

Yeah. Um, the other name that I have for a returner is Killian Court. Uh, because he was at eighth in 2023, but he's really he, I mean, he has leveled up his 200 performances since then. And and the 2023 Coca-Dona, I mean, his run was so brave. Like, he has the confidence necessary to win a 200 mile, because one thing that you do need in order to win this race is a huge amount of confidence and bravery to take the lead and be comfortable with that and not freak out. Because you can't take the lead of a 200 mile and then just start sprinting. That's a bad idea. Um, so like to be able to like keep it all together, and he was in the lead for so long when you know, turns out his lungs just started like filling up with fluid. Um, because that's we were like, oh, he's slowing down a lot. And then he and then he finished and went to the hospital and was there for a while, and they were like, Oh, yeah, there's like a lazy river over there in the left lung. Um excited to see. What an image. Yeah. And then and then, of course, like you know, he swept the triple crown last year, which is that's cool to win all of the triple crown races, let alone just finishing it. Um it seems like he's definitely like really hunkered down on the on the training uh for for this race. You know, I I feel like he understands the assignment in regards to how competitive you need to be in order to win this race. And he's another one of those people that I feel like he's got the experience of, you know, having been on the course and running it and actually doing the whole thing. And then now being like, okay, I've done that. Like, this is what I need to do to win. And I can't imagine he's coming into this race thinking anything other than winning.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:08

Yeah, I mean, back in January he put a target on his own back, said he's here to race for the win and set a course record. So he's got he put that out in the world first first year as a pro. Um, yeah, it's an interesting contrast because like last year he kind of just got to race in peace and do that triple crown project with no external expectations, and it's a totally different world this year. Um Mike McKnight said the same thing, right? Beginning of the year.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:34

How many, how many guys said that they're going for the course record here?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:38

McKnight said the same thing. Um DJ Fox on his distance dumped interview said that he's racing to win and thinks that it's gonna take a course record 56-ish hours. Um yeah, so there's a couple. Nice Joe McConaughey, interestingly, was like non-committal to it. I think he's what did I have him saying? He says he has skin in the game because of 2024, but his priorities are the crew experience and being a good dad slash partner.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:07

See, that's why he's going to win. Because he's he's not gonna get so you know wrapped up in tunnel vision into what other people are doing, all this other stuff of the race, where he's just gonna kind of like do his thing. I I I trust Joe's racing instincts at something like this, perhaps more than anyone else's. And even if uh I mean I I hope he has a good sleeper, but if his sleep has been crap, I think he'll be okay still.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:44

Dude, and he had this Zoolander-esque comment. I think I told you, like, this, this, this field size needs just to be at least three times as big. What is this? A men's field for ants?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:53

This is coca donna for ants. That's a hot that's a hot take.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:00

So he said he said all these good things that are non-committal, but he also said that the field's not deep.

unknown 1:15:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:09

Um, and then I I do have a couple other names for interesting people that I think are are new to the Kokadona star list. One being Alec Klein. Isn't that your dude that you're talking about who raced Hella and got some UROY votes? 13 races last year, I think. I have to 13 wins last year.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:32

I don't know. Someone saved me here and I'll just sign up. But yeah, and also, by the way, he listens to the pot. Listener to the pot. So shout out Alec for, you know, I'm assuming you're listening to us right now. Yeah, workhorse. Workhorse athlete.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

If you're in this race, don't listen to the preview show. Like, Alec, turn it off right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:52

Yeah, one, two, three, four. I mean, there were some months where he raced twice in the same month. He ran a 24-hour race and the Havelina hundred in October.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:03

So I'm not worried about durability for Mr. Klein. Yeah. But that's a cool one. Um, another fun name is Adam Kimball. I mean, I feel like we could spend an entire episode talking about everything Adam Kimball has done inside and outside of running.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:21

The only guy to beat Killian in this field. Of course.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:27

Wait, what did he do? Tahoe Rim Trail FKT. Oh, because he took it from Killian. It was I know you don't like FKTs, but he did beat former TRT FKT holder, because he doesn't have it anymore, right? Uh or does he still have it?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:40

I think he still has it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:41

Oh, then I did get it backwards in my head that Killian took it from him. But um that was impressive. I also wrote down uh 2022 Western states, he was the first to the top of the escarpment.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

Brave. Very brave. Brave.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:58

Yeah. It would also like he's like he lives in Truckee. He's the local guy, so like that's just that's sick. Um, but I guess the point being like Adam Adam is very he's a very accomplished runner. He's done some sick things as a runner. He's also done some really cool things on TV.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:16

Well, yeah, he's uh was he like a game show contestant or he's on a reality show?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:20

I think he's done a bunch.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:21

60 days, was that 60 days in solo in the South American wilderness on the show called The Wheel. He's also run across America. Pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:34

So this is not the most intimidating thing he's ever done.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:38

No, he I guess yeah, he falls into that category of like he's done potentially longer, harder things. He's done bad water, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:47

This is cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:48

You think bad water is harder than Coca-Dona?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:51

I don't know. Yeah, because I think it's a bit more boring. I think the the boredom part is scary.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:57

I'm debating in my head whether the boredom part counts as an argument or is it being harder or not? I don't know. Coke donor seems hard. It takes so much longer.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:08

I know. I don't know. But yeah, he's he's he's got the credit, he's got all the credentials he needs for this, no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:15

And then dark horse pick, not a dark horse to any of us, but Zach Hower. Zach Howard's stock has been on the rise. I would say these last six months of racing. I mean he hit good javelina last October.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:30

Solid Havelina finish.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:32

And then just Terra, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:37

Was he just ahead of Terra at Havelina? That was like a sprint finish for those two.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:42

Yeah, yeah. It was fast. Um it was like 340 or something at Black Canyon 50K, and then I think he was like fourth or something at big alt 100k recently. Um been getting in some solid training. The big question mark is like, I think this is the longest thing still done by a good margin.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:05

Yeah, I'm on the Zach Hype train for sure. I think he's done his homework and co-founder of Open Fuel. Co-founder of Open Fuel. Leah, what's your read on Ryan Clifford?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:17

He just kicked my husband's ass at the Argent's 50 mile. I know that much. Oh no, he's a he's a solid East Coast guy. I think from New Jersey, is that right? Um has had top 10 finish at JFK. And yeah, he's a fast guy. I know he had a pretty solid finish at Black Canyon a couple years ago. I think that's when he first came on our radar and we started discussing him on the podcast here. I do believe his debut at the 200-mile distance will be at Kokodona. Uh yeah, curious to see kind of how the terrain treats him.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:57

It feels like he has near like Dan Green level speed. Yeah. Leg speed.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:02

Not I don't think quite Dan Green level, but kind of like uh yeah, maybe one step down.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

Like you ran a he ran a 325 50k like three days ago or something like that. Pretty solid. It's like 630 pace. Um oh, and then he rolled that into a couple hour long run the next day. That was that was the part that impressed me.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:26

This is kind of cool. I pulled up his Strava and he back in October, it's this it is a run. It's he did this over seven days, and it's called The Empire Strikes Back. And you start in Buffalo, New York, and you finish in Fishkill, New York. And it was okay, this is actually it was 476 miles. In a week? Over seven days. What? This is crazy. Uh only 8,000 feet of ascent in those 476 miles. But it was just it looks like it was across New York. It was west to east. That's cool. 93 hours.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:02

That's that's good training.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:05

Ryan Clifford's gonna win Tokadona. He did that.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:10

I'm just trying to imagine how you only get 8,000 feet going 400 something miles.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:14

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:15

Well, New York, he would I would expect more across New York.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:18

Tunnels. Me too. You built tunnels. That's how you do it. Okay. I'll throw a couple names out there. Um, I mean, gotta talk about Edgar Ramirez. He's I think he's someone who uh is absolutely a threat for the podium. I I see him as a possible winner of this race, even if someone like Joe McCone falls. He's like at the very top of my like best of the rest. Ran 63 hours. Ran 63 hours here. Um yeah. So and had a had a great mammoth as well. So he's a veteran. Um was Coca Donna last year his first 200?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:59

I don't know. But I have written that it was his debut, but I didn't check like DNFs.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:05

It was a it was a really, really solid performance, though, for sure. I just I think I said it at the top of the episode, and I'll just say it again here. Like, there's just so many fun characters in this men's field. And the top of the list for me is Cody Paskin, who's like one of the younger guys. But if you guys follow him on Instagram, on his stories a few days ago, I think he moved into this new house recently in Missouri, and he just had a series of stories where he just decided that this little barn in the in his backyard just had to go. It was like decrepit and right, so he he just decided to light it on fire. And so there's a series of stories where the barn is burning down, and then like in one of the stories, his neighbors decide to call the fire department on him. So like there's like sirens in the background as these firefighters and cops are descending on his backyard, and the story culminates with him being like, you know, I thought this was America. Like, yeah, you can't do that. It was raging, man. I mean, I wish some of an archive that used to put him back up. It was pretty funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:07

So I do remember seeing that. I think maybe you might have sent it to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:11

Yeah, yeah. But uh, but legitimately a good runner. I think a lot of things didn't go his way in the last like 50 miles of last year's race, but still finished in the top ten. Really respectable debut.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:20

He had uh good runner. Fun quote on Strava. I think he was previewing portions of the course, and it might have been you know early section or maybe midsection. He said these sections are where I can win the race. I was ripping eight to nine minute miles on those smooth roads with a load of pack. Let's freaking go, son.

unknown 1:23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:39

He's thinking when he's thinking when. Yeah, and I think he expects to go at least seven to eight hours faster if you take out the walking in those last uh in those last miles. News flash. That won't win. And then the last one for me is just I'll just throw DJ Fox in there. So DJ was another like middle of the top 10 guy last year. Adventure runner. I think he got the memo that you need to be a better runner for this thing. So he got you know faster relative to him. He's the guy that I said earlier, he's racing to win, looking for around that 56-hour mark. And um, yeah, I think similar to Cody, I think he bled a lot of time in the last 50 last year. I passed him around the Kelly Canyon aid station at 210. And I'm not sure if that's where he like slept and took a break or whatever, but I think he ended up running the last bit after that pretty well once he kind of got his feet back under him and and rested a bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:33

So he's there. One thing I like towards an argument of Cody is that his Black Canyon this year was pretty solid, and like one of his better, yep, like shorter ultras, you know, relative to Coca-Dona. I mean, he ran 823. Uh that's running, that's running pretty solid. Like up until just like two or three years ago, 820 at Black Canyon was a very respectable time.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:02

Like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:03

More than enough speed for this race. Yeah, like that's that's solid. 823 is solid. I should say one more person, Jeff Garmeyer, who is coming off a self-supported FKT on the AT, just an incredible performance. This is well, this will be his sixth year at Cocodona. Five finishes going for his sixth finish. I think there's two other people. Andy Glaze is one of them, who has also uh been that consistent at this race. Is that all of them? All of them. Yeah, he's been there since year one. So just a uh a really great legacy here. You know, he's had five years at this race. I think he's topped out at like 68 hours-ish for uh a personal record here. But I think in the most recent years, there's just been hiccups, stuff out of his control, COVID, stuff like that. So I think we can probably expect if if things go well for him, we could see another similar to Cody Poskin, like shaving a bunch of hours off of uh his best time here. So I think I see him similar to Jeff Browning, like he could be a contender for uh podium or like sweeping people up because he's smart.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:04

And he's been top ten in all but one of those years, and I have him written down as my guaranteed top ten.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:12

Sweet. Yeah, probably same.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:15

Um Michael McKnight's race schedule. Yes, yeah, yeah, Leo, because you were saying like all three of our training put together, uh, we don't equal one Lindsay Dwyer. It's like if Michael McKnight doesn't run a step in between his races between May and October, he might still run more miles than me between May and October, because he has a thousand miles worth of races.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:44

So he just set a course record at the Arizona Monster. He's racing Coca-Dona and then the Triple Crown and Hard Rock. And then on top of all that, he is race directing a 200-mile race, a new one this year called the old Ephraim 200, which is up around where the Bear 100 course is, Smithfield, Utah, that area. I would argue that that race directing alone for that type of event is like as significant as all of those races he's doing combined. So yeah, he's if he pulls this off, massive tip of the cap. Yeah. First ballot Hall of Famer. First ballot hall of famer for coordinating all of that and making it work. Amazing. And actually, he said his goal here is to go sub-60 hours. And that he with this year in general, he wants to reclaim his title as the the king of two hundreds.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:37

Yeah, there's a lot of uh I don't know, self proclaimed, but like there's a lot of kings of two hundreds in this race, it feels like.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:45

There's only room for one king at the table.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:49

Who's it gonna be?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:50

Who's it gonna be? Fenn, who do you think it's gonna be?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:54

Well, I'll roll into my predictions. So I've got Joe McConaughey for the Win. Fifty-six hours, fifty minutes. I think he leads not necessarily from the gun, although that wouldn't surprise me. But I do see him ultimately taking over definitively around the Granite Dells, which is a little over that's just about 100 miles into the race. I don't know. That's probably not a courageous pick. That's probably the odds-on favorite, but uh maybe the rest of my podium's interesting. I've got Max Jolliffe in second. So I think Max, it turns out Max is a really, really good runner. In the middle of a training block for Coca-Dona, he is asked by BPN to come to the Austin Marathon. That's his nutrition sponsor. They're sponsoring Austin, and they're like, look, you don't have to go or you don't have to race. We just want you there for activation, spectating. He's like, whatever, I'll run it. And I think in the middle of a 100-mile week, 100-plus mile week, he runs 234 on a pretty hilly course that has just over a thousand feet of climbing. So relative to 200s, he's pretty much as fast as anyone in this field, if not faster. Um, the volume's been there. I think he believes that just getting better at running, like you said earlier, Brett, is critical for success here. The only concerns I have for him is historically he's had feet issues in 200s. And he hasn't really climbed much in his training. I think he sort of punted Vert and focused more on just like mileage and running economy. And I do still think there's climbing to be had at Kokodona. So those are my only two concerns. But I believe he is absolutely capable of running sub-60 on this course. He was also sick from the gun at Kokodona last year, and he was still managing to be in the middle of the top 10 pretty much all race. Um, and probably ended up going like 200 miles further than anyone else would have in his situation. So Max in second. And then I struggled here between Zach Hower and Edder Ramirez, but I'm going with Zach Hower on the back end of this podium. I'm buying his stock. I think he's had a really good buildup of races dating back to Javelina last year. I met him at the Desert Rats 100K a couple of years back when I was prepping for Kokadona. He took Raj, uh Raj Paul Panu sort of to the brink at that race. They finished one, two. Um, I think he's a really good runner. And then just having talked with him on the phone and emailing, texting back and forth, I think he's just done a lot of homework and is coming into this race with a lot of respect for the course and the distance, and he's gonna run smart. So he probably hates us for blowing his cover and not considering him to be a dark horse, but yeah, he's a really strong runner, and uh I see him there. It was it was him and Edder, and I and I uh just edging him out.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:46

Well, he's not gonna be listening to this preview episode because if you're racing, you shouldn't listen to it. Maybe. Um those are solid ticks. Um what did Leah say? Oh just grabbing charger. Got it. Um Okay. Then what did you say for times?

SPEAKER_03 1:31:08

So I've got 5650 for the win from Joe. I think there's a little bit of a gap because I see Max and Zach both breaking 60, but I think they're a little bit distant from Joe. I I really see Joe breaking away. So I see the entire podium going under 60. And I maybe just to make it interesting, top 10. I I don't think there's a ton of improvement here, and I still think we see the top 10. Like I still see 10th place finishing like around 70 hours.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:39

Okay. Um, so I also think Joe is gonna win. He's gonna get his second Coca-Dona trophy. I think that he's gonna run. I don't think he's gonna, I don't think it's gonna be a course record. I think we're gonna see that last year's freak weather, despite the mud being crappy, was actually gonna be more favorable. So I'm just, you know, Joe's just Joe's gonna run 59, 28, and 54 seconds. It's just gonna repeat his 22 time to the second. Like it's gonna be insane. People are gonna be like, but it'll be faster because it's like a harder course, like this year. So it'll be worth more, but Joe's gonna end up having identical times, and people are just gonna be like, that's weird. Um, I'm gonna give second. This is where I think this is where I think the men's field is a little bit intriguing, in that I feel like second through fifth can go to a lot of people. I mean, I'm I'm gonna go with Edder Ramirez for a second. How come? I just like how solid he's been, and he looked so good. I mean, I was watching the live stream because he was having to run away. So he passed Rachel, I think, on the way up Eldon or around there, and then he had to hold her off coming down Eld to the finish, and like he just looked good and finished the race and was pumped, and it it really felt like he probably finished, and maybe after some reflection, was like, yeah, there's more time to take off there because it was, I think it was his first 200, and he just like he just looked too good at the finish for that. Um, and then you know, had a solid, solid mammoth. I heard I heard rumors that he doesn't train that much. I don't remember where I read it.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:37

I heard the same low mileage. I again that's it goes back to what we said earlier, like gratitude, stoke, yeah, like happiness, default, like yeah, he's he's all those things.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:48

So I think Edder's gonna get second. I think he's gonna improve on his time. So I think he's gonna run, you know, I think I think Joe is gonna be just just sneaking under 60 hours. I think Edder's gonna be like 61. And then I had Max Jolith for third. Um I had him picked as my podium before you said that he was gonna get second. I was uh uh between him and Jeff Browning. Uh but I just I feel like Max last year's last year was he's gotta be motivated after last year. I mean, you're just thinking about that, I'm sure, the whole year, and he's not gonna forget about that until until he finishes and gets to fully erase to that. Um and I think he's probably in that 63 hour range. Okay. Which does over start to overlap. I think that would put him in. I think I would put him just behind Rachel. So I think Rachel and Edder are probably kicking it in together again for second overall instead of third overall.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:09

There's a group of people on the men's side that I feel very confident that they will be in the top ten. I'm just not really sure where, like how deep into the top ten they get. And it's people like Adam Kimball, Jeff Browning, Jeff Garmeyer, McKinney, Cody Poskin. What day will Verstig have? Yeah. Yeah. Um exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:33

Where is Killian Korth gonna land?

SPEAKER_03 1:35:37

Right, exactly. I I mean I'm I'm I'm most I I'm genuinely curious about McKnight because how I mean, honestly, how good of it, especially with the demands of Coca-Dona these days, what truly can you expect of someone coming off a course record 300-mile race performance at the Arizona Monster?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:55

And he broke a pinky toe between then and now.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then uh with Killian Corth, I know on this course, I mean, it looks like he's gonna be working like he has a a a system in place to um you know fix it, but like the allergies that he gets on this course that just like shut him down breathing-wise late in the game. So those liabilities.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:17

He needs that uh, what is that that magical inhaler that we talked about on our long-run archives? Climatics or something like that? Climatic health, yeah. Climatic health.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:29

Just give me a puff of that bicarb. But yeah, I guess that's another storyline that I'm excited about. It's just the people, the people that have publicly uh without any pressure, they have just decided to put uh you know a big goal out into the world, the McKnights, the the uh the course of the world. Like that's another I mean it's gonna be really fun to follow them for sure. And like, I mean, yeah, Killian's coming off a triple crown performance, and I'm really excited to see how that converts, you know, at this type of race.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:59

And I love the shot calling because that gives like I'm all about hype building before race. Like oh yeah. We need that. Um yeah. Leah, I'll just go over my podium one more time so you so you so you can't copy me. Um I said Joe McConaughey, Edder Ramirez, Max Joliffe.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:21

Nice, okay. Well, I was just having the thought. This is a field that has a lot of people in it who have quite big social media followings. So I feel like regardless of who we put out as our picks, we are ripe for receiving a lot of hate because everybody has a favorite in this field, and there's people like Cam Haynes on the start list. Killing Corth has quite a big following, Max Joloff has a big following, Sally McCrae's in the field, so we're probably gonna get hate for whoever we do not on these lists, but that is okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:55

Leah, after your picks, I have something that we need to go come back to that we didn't talk about. Yes. Okay. Love it. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:02

Okay. We will go. Joe McConaughey is winning this race. I do think he's setting a course record. I think the fact that the course is four miles shorter will enable that course record. I think he will go about 45 minutes under Dan's time from last year, which would that did I say that'd be like 56 hours then? Right around.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:22

That would be like 58 flat.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:24

58, yes. There's 45. I think second place will be Jeff Browning. And I think third place will be Max Joliff. And I don't think those I think Jeff will actually run close, if not faster, to the time he ran when he got passed by Harry. And Max, I think, um will I don't think it'll be a tight race for third. I think we'll actually see quite a bit of separation between first, second, and third. So I don't think those battles will be very interesting. Like we mentioned, they may be on women's side.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:01

Okay. I got one interesting thing too, Brett. I'll go after you.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:05

Okay. Race purse. We didn't talk about, we need to get some race purse predictions. So Black Canyon was the first time that Aravipa uh did the race purse, which was like crowdfunded prize purse. And I think Aira Vipa matched the first like$5,000 or something. I'm curious what I don't know if there's been any announcements on matches or anything, but going back to Leah, what you said, how there's a lot of people in this race with huge social followings where those fans think, whether it's true or not, that that particular athlete is the greatest athlete to ever walk the face of the planet. Why would they not pony up a couple dollars to support their favorite athlete? How big? What is first place taken home from race purse?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:57

And think about this. It's going to be the length of the live stream that it's advertised, which is so much more time to get donations.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:06

So wait, 125 hours.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:08

It's going to be big.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:10

So I feel like it could either be not a lot or it could be stratospheric because I think it's going to also depend on whether there's a plan among the commentators to reference it enough times to remind the audience about what the stakes are and what that thing is in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen. It's like weather on the eights, if you watch the weather channel, you know? Like you just all remember. I'll put it in the chat. Hey guys, talk about the race. Talk about like Chris, AJW, anyone else that's anchoring the cast. Like, I think there has to be a plan to remind people, like, oh, like the pot is this much, and just a reminder, like this goes to the, you know, all so I think there has to be a reminder plank. Okay. What do you think first place is taken home?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:52

$7,623. Approximately.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:59

I'm going to go$21,853.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:07

I think it's going to be$30,000. No. I think it's just going to catch off. I mean, when Finn and I commentated, we raised$1,500 for an imaginary glimpse in an hour.$1,500 in one hour. This is where ACE is going to be going for$125 hours. Like, I think I think it's just going to catch. I think it's going to just I think it's going to be a thing. I I have confidence that Air Vipe and Mount Now posts are going to do a good job advertising it during the race, like on socials and stuff. I think winners are taking home 30 large okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:46

I think we're going to see about, and this is conservative, but a million unique views or a million, a million total views, right? On the on the live stream. And if you say that like 5% of that will donate, and each donate like five bucks, it could get really big.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:07

How much does this influence if you like have a if there's a high probability that you could take home 30 grand for winning Cocodona, does this change your timeline for running Cocodona at all?

SPEAKER_03 1:42:21

Well, that was the other hot take, not a hot take. This is the other like point that I wanted to make in this episode is I believe that this is the last year where major brands and major athletes in the sport don't seriously consider Cocodona every year for their schedule. I think this is the last year that like the men's field is not that deep.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:43

If I am a professional athlete, I'm restructuring my contract to say any era viper race I do with race purse, you guys match that.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:54

Like if I won Black Canyon and what did they get? Like$5,000? They would have to match that on top of like the normal race bonus.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:01

But just to steel man that, we just talked about the Gorge Waterfalls 100K and how that$15,000 win didn't do a ton to attract a major field there.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:12

Yes. But this is going to be different because this has just the live stream, the social following, the number of hours to just fluff the pockets of whoever's going to win.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:28

Okay. Before we before we go, I'm going to say one, I think, interesting strategy, and then I'll do the coverage logistics to close out. I think it was on distance to empty, Killian Courth said that as part of his fight against sleep deprivation overall sleep strategy, he's planning, he's considering, I should say, two hero creatine doses at midnight on night one and night two. He's going to take 25 grams of creatine. Because apparently there is some evidence that like that much creatine intake in those settings can ward off some of the effects of sleep depth in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:09

What's a potential downside of this? Like I imagine it's gotta be diarrhea.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:17

That's what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:19

I don't know, but I just thought that was a I wrote that down as an interesting note from the interview. Everyone's try we're trying different things around sleep, and this is what he's trying, so we'll see. He's doing it for science.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:30

I also came across that same creatine th I don't know if it's a study or something, but yeah, I I read some things as well about massive creatine doses fighting off the sleep.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:46

So that and then oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:52

It's just interesting. I can't imagine I hope he's practiced that in training.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:59

Yeah, agreed. Okay. Before we go, coverage logistics, race kicks off Monday, May 4th, 5 a.m. Pacific from Black Canyon City, Arizona. Mountain Out Post, YouTube for the live stream. The Kokodona Instagram is great. Uh the Kokodona Chronicles, I think they come out every day, multiple times a day sometimes. Those are great if you just want like summaries of what's been happening the last few hours or in certain sections. That'll be on the Mountain Outpost channel. Also on the Mountain Outpost channel. And then I would be removed. I think Mountain Outpost, I think. But check both. And then I would be I would be remiss not to include this, but again, I've been watching all those distance to empty episodes. And they're starting this thing at mile 110 of the race. It's called the Mingus Basketball Association, and it's a partnership between Distance to Empty, John G, and Mount to Coast. And it's worth mentioning because every single one of the guests that's been interviewed has agreed to play, including Killian Korth, Jeff Browning, Joe, Jeff Garmeyer, Rachel. And they'll have a basketball hoop at the Mingus Mountain Aid Station. And you got to play with the guys for a little bit before you go on. Like at least take a shot. Like a layup, a jump shot, all that. So that'll be a really fun thing to watch on the live stream as people 110 miles into the race have to join for a moment the Mingus Basketball Association.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:20

There should be a huge bounty on a dunk. And I think the only person potentially capable of getting that is Zach. Or Joe. I mean, Joe is six four. Joe's tall too. I forgot. Yeah, string bean. Ooh, and then it then it's a race if they can both dunk. But who's dunking a ball 100 miles into a race? I mean, that'd be so sick. Crazier things have happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:43

So all right. This has been our preview of the Cocodona 250, the 2026 edition. Thank you so much, Leah. Thank you so much, Brett. We'll see you on the other side.