2026 Cocodona 250 Recap | Race Analysis, Takeaways, Top Performances

Finn Melanson, Brett Hornig, and Leah Yingling recap the 2026 Cocodona 250  - the live coverage, major takeaways, top athlete performances, the possible futures of the event, and listener takes.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We are back. This is our recap of the 2026 Kokodona 250 with a disclaimer. We are recording this late Wednesday night. And at the time of this recording, I believe seven runners in the top ten have finished both podiums. And at some point in this recording, I think we'll probably be reflecting on Heather Jackson's finish. I think she is the next female runner up. And I believe Etta Rami is on the men's side. But um this is when we this is when we can record, so we're gonna do it, and there's a ton to talk about before we get into it, really quickly. Leah, how are you doing? How have have you been in the Cocodona vortex like I have the past two and a half days?

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Yes, and I I told myself I wouldn't get into the Cocodona vortex, and I did a really good job on day one because like what really happens in day one? Turns out a lot of things happen on day one.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Kevin Kevin Tedonio happens.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Kevin Todonio happens on day one. If it weren't for yeah, the vortex, I wouldn't have known that. But yeah, I've been in the vortex all day long, all yesterday. It's hard to look away. I don't know what Coca-Dona does. It's like a drug, but you can't get enough.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Yeah. It's like a car crash where you're just like, I gotta stop watching this, but I can't.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Uh Brett, can we celebrate Benji's birthday really quickly on this podcast? Because today was Benji's birthday.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

I will show this to him. He's he's had the best day ever, and this will be the gift that keeps on giving. So happy birthday, Benji. So you were not so much in the vortex. I had it in my ear a lot of the day. Um there was there was a handful of like birthday events today that I wasn't tuned into Cocodona for. Um, but we've had it going all week. I I mean Benji's such a big Rachel fan now. Because mostly because of precision, because you know, we have precision water bottles around the house, and he looked at me, he was just like, ah, Rachel, Benji, and he was just like, twins. So basically the same. Pretty much the same. So he's been all he's like just so hydrated all week.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Good. Well, we're gonna have a lot of fun this episode, but we do have to start with something somber. We want to express our condolences for the family of a female runner who passed away during the Coco Donna 250 yesterday after experiencing an unspecified medical emergency. We really don't have any other details beyond that at this time. It is it's a tragedy. Our hearts, I would say, are collectively with everyone involved, the family, the broader community, anyone that this affects. Did either of you have anything else to add there other than that, you know, it's just it's it sucks.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

It absolutely sucks. And I think it hits close to home. I think this is this could happen to anybody out there. I think our sport is dangerous in a lot of ways, and yeah, just unexpected and just heartbroken for the family.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Yeah, and I do appreciate the way that like Air Vipa and Mount Outpost, like Cocodona, the way that they kind of handled it and like publicly addressed everything and you know, mentioned it on the live stream. But um, but it seemed like, you know, they handled it in in just like a nice respectful way. Um giving the right people space and like not diving into whatever that just doesn't need to until maybe ever.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

World's hardest pivot here, but we do have some results to talk about. Rachel Enterkin takes the not just the win on the women's side, the overall win in 56 hours, 12 minutes. A new women's course record, a new race course record. I mean, there are a lot of superlatives to say there. I'll save them for when you guys weigh in. Killian Corth on the men's side, also a men's course record, 57 hours, 32 minutes, incredible race. On the men's side, Cody Poskin and DJ Fox round out that podium. The entire men's podium goes sub-60 hours. DJ ran it in uh 59-33. On the women's side, Courtney DeWalter and Meg Eckert round out that podium. Whole women's podium goes almost sub-63, but certainly sub-64 and all under the previous course record that was set this time last year by also Rachel, who has just completed a three-peat here. Um, and who knows when she's gonna stop running it, but three, three, uh, three wins in a row dating back to 24. So, yeah, those are like the headline results, the two podiums. Brett, you were gonna say something.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

So Rachel's had three Coca Donas. She's won three times, but each time it was her first finish was in the 70s, her second finish was in the 60s, and then her third finish was in the 50s. That is an extreme trend line. And like I just I'd say the main like the main theme for this race, and we it seems like this happens a lot across the sport of ultra running. I was so wrong about the times again. Nowhere people are so good at running.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

It's a Brett, it's a great point, though. As Rachel evolves, so evolves Coca-Dona. Like we sort of the race is literally evolving in lockstep with the innovations that she's bringing to the table. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Totally. And Brett, uh, your trend line that you were discussing. So, I mean, the next natural trend that Rachel would achieve would be a finish in the 40s. So I just looked up 253 miles in 49 hours and 59 minutes, and that's 1151 minutes per mile, which like linear, not accounting for stoppage time.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

I think so too now. But also that's mind-blowingly fast. Like that's two and a half good. Like, that's two good 100 mile splits. That's two great 100 mile splits, and then a pretty solid 50 mile split.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

All right, Norda is the official footwear partner of the show, and they're having a great week. Unless you have been living under a rock, you probably saw that their athlete Rachel Entrekken just won the Coca-Dona 250 outright and set an overall new course record from start to finish. She was wearing Norda's new Model 055, which launches later this summer. Pretty cool to see that shoe contribute to such a significant historic performance at what is quickly becoming one of the most important and popular events on North American soil. Go check out all of Norda's products at NordaRun.com. Also, a great week for another one of our partners, Precision Fuel and Hydration. If you were watching the Coca-Dona live stream, you saw their cool aid station setup at the Sedona checkpoint on the course. You also saw their products fueling the two frontrunners, Rachel Entrickin and Killian Cork over multiple days. Pretty impressive to see this stuff work pretty much flawlessly in a multi-day setting. Go check out all of their stuff at precisionhydration.com and feel free to use code single track at checkout for 15% off your next order. What was the second? Do you guys know off the top of your head what the second hundred miles will be? I know the first one was like almost 18 hours on the dot.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

That would be a great I'd have to look at it.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

I think it was around 20.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

That's fast.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Yeah, because historically people have slowed down quite a bit more into that second hundred, especially because you start having to factor in sleep and just longer aid station stoppage times. But I think I heard on the her finish line interview or somewhere, she said she only s had two small sleeps, Rachel. Uh two dirt naps, like a seven minute and a nine minute. And that was that was it.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Are you shocked, Brett, that the battle between Courtney and Rachel never really materialized? Because I was really counting on that.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

I I am shocked, and I'm mostly shocked because it was all Rachel running so much faster than I thought. Like Meg, Eckert, and Courtney DeWalter ran incredible races. And if you look at their finish times and you don't show me first place and you say they got second and third, what time does first place run? I'll be like, wow, it was a really close race. Because I just wouldn't have predicted Rachel running 56 hours.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

It wouldn't surprise me at all if, for example, Meg's A-day, like her plan heading in was, I think I can run 63 hours in this course. I think, I mean, that that's a course record effort. And I I have some level of faith that that like the race would come back to me. And I wonder if Courtney might have felt the same thing too, because again, like sub-62. I mean, if I'm looking back at our predictions from the uh previous episode, we kind of thought that that would be a strong possibility. So like they were running a winning effort by most accounts all day. She Rachel just never failed.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

She never failed. And I think what is mind-blowing to me is you see Rachel go out at 18 hours for the first hundred. And I looked it up, Finn, I think it was about 23 hours for the second hundred.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

And you think there's no way. There's no way she can hold this pace. There's no way they can keep going at this rate because it was quick. They were ahead of course record splits all day long. And you're just asking yourself, what could what's the worst that could happen? What's the best that could happen? The best did happen, but what's the worst that could happen? And it's a a mega blow-up or a DNF. And that's the exact opposite of what we saw from Rachel. And it was just so compelling to watch.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

Yeah, it didn't seem like Rachel was ever even really close to blowing up. Um, you know, you had talked about like Meg and Courtney, maybe thinking like, dude, I'm running a good race. I think looking at it from just a fan's perspective, watching the tracker, watching the live stream, having all the stuff pulled up. Between those three, it does seem like Rachel ran closest to her perfect day because there was definitely a big low patch, I think, last night that Courtney went through. Because I remember when I went to sleep, and then when I woke up, Courtney's tracker had not moved nearly as much as Rachel's. Same with Meg's. And then Courtney totally came back to life in like the afternoon today, all the way to the finish. Meg made big moves, I think it was this morning, because she had actually passed Courtney at one point. Um, but both of them seem to have at least one decently low point, whereas it just didn't seem like Rachel ever had that.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yeah, it's really interesting with these long races over 200 miles, because a question I have, and Finn, maybe you can speak to this, is like, are there multiple ways to get the result that Rachel just got? Like multiple ways of running the race to achieve that.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

I I'm probably wrong here. My gut tells me that over the next few years we're gonna see top runners converge on a single style. But like you, you know, we us three, we were all talking, we were texting back and forth offline about uh how efficient these top runners were in and out of aid. And it's interesting that Rachel won this race and she also had the least, according to track leaders. I don't know how accurate this is, but according to track leaders, by a long shot, she had the lowest stop time, four hours and 40 minutes. I pull up Killian, and Killian had seven hours and six minutes of stop time. So there you go. Like you could you can gain back some of the race right there, theoretically. I'm sure as Killian is doing his homework post-race, he's thinking, like, if I come back here in 27, what can I do to shave? How can I get my stop time down from seven hours and six minutes to that Rachel territory? Because if he does, if he if he has four hours and 40 minutes of stop time, Killian is winning this race by over an hour.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Gosh, so there is a lot of sections then where he was running faster than Rachel. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Especially I think I think I think in the second hundred, because I mean, the other thing I was gonna say about, and there's a lot to talk about with Killian here, but um, I don't know if you guys were all watching at the same time, but seeing him at Schneebly Hill and then again at Mun's Park. So this is at mile like 180, and then I think like in that like 190 to 200 area, uh I think it's Luke J in the live stream, communicates back to uh to AJW in the studio and Chris that like he's having some significant hip issues. There's like pain radiating down his leg. The first thing I think of is like, okay, there's probably like a nerve impingement going on there. And then you can see it in his gait, like leaving the uh the aid station. AJW's like, we got a leaner here. And I mean, I just could like huge kudos to K Killian. I mean, I'm I'm I have to imagine he's carrying that to the finish line. And that's just all guts, that's all courage, that's all just like mental fortitude. Like, I'm not gonna let this stop me. And Rachel, I don't think Rachel had that, but Killian definitely dealt with that the whole rest of the way.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

I know one of my thoughts, and I think I texted you guys this whenever Killian was going through this rough patch, is like, take a snapshot of this live stream and try to describe our sport to anybody that's outside the sport. And they would be like, What on earth is a sport that you guys participate in? And why do you do this to yourselves? Because Killian looked like he was in excruciating pain and just head down, gutting it out, and then to see him hang on the way he did, not just hang on, like move pretty decent given the body that he was working with all the way to the finish. And I think a question that arises for me when I compare and contrast Rachel's performance with Killian's is like in my mind, you're running 250 miles, something's going to go wrong with your body, whether that's blisters, your knees, your hips. So like something's going to arise. And I would love to hear from Rachel about what she does in order to prevent those things from arising. Because last year I don't think she had any issues like that this year. And I almost want to believe that like looking at her biomechanics running, it is made for Coca-Dona.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to know Rachel's collagen routine. Because I need that. My knees need that.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

She's got great hair, so it must be good.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Yeah. I know there's a collagen routine there. I know it's it's in there.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

I'll I'll say a couple things here. Just to add on to sort of the Rachel backstory. I was speaking, I was on a phone call with Emily Arrell, who, if you're watching the live stream, that was Rachel's head nutritionist at all of these aid stations over the course of the two and a half days she was out there. Got some just like bullet point takeaways on her nutrition strategy. Overhead here, storyline, no gut issues from start to finish, which is just incredible. And I'm sure Brett you would chalk that up to just like a natural God-given ability.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

That's it. I can't even go two and a half days in my life without any gut issues. To do that then while continuously running, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

So okay, that's that's incredible and special. Um, but like specifically here, averaged about 60 grams of carbs per hour. Typically was doing like a mixture of chews, chew bars, and gels. Um, anytime she dipped below, she was doing like oatmeal, potatoes, broth at aid stations to bring that right back up. Uh fluid intake was 300 to 750 mil per hour, depending on night versus day. I think it was 800 milligrams of sodium per hour as well. And they also talked about um like pushing up hourly intake of carbs in areas where they planned ahead of time that she was going to go faster. And I think they did anticipate um like an even more faster than usual day one. Like, I don't think that they were accounting for an 18-hour hundred, but they were accounting for a faster first hundred. And so they had plans to like spike in certain areas, which is kind of interesting. And I'm sure for people that are listening, like that's an interesting gut training strategy for future multi-day events. Uh, and then the last thing here is just caffeine or two things, caffeine plan. She basically avoided caffeine intake until like the early hours of day two, like in that like two to four a.m. kind of witching hour time frame, and was doing it all via Coca-Cola, like no caffeine gels. Thought that was interesting, and then for the most part, tried to withhold caffeine intake again until night two, did it like sparingly during day two, and then like went all in on it in day three.

unknown 16:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

That's a cool strategy.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

Very strategic caffeine intake. Like, try and not mess with the like circadian rhythms in regards to staying awake during the day. It's like let the daylight do its thing and then try and hack it at night. Um that's it. And it makes sense when you look at it later. It's like, oh yeah, there's definitely some sections of this course where your burn rate for carbs is going to be higher than others. Why wouldn't you be supplementing with more carbohydrates at that point than later? Like that's probably a good uh like one of the big takeaways for why she wouldn't have had any GI problems. Was it seemed like the intake for that sort of thing matched effort levels along the course.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

I agree. And like 60 feels like a happy spot. Like I think when people start pushing kind of beyond like 90, and it doesn't really sound like she was ever likely in that range, which I think is probably a good thing for a race where your pace is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Oh so yeah, it comes down to like like is it like for most people it's probably not necessary to go higher than that. Because you know only the very front few people are even pushing effort levels where they're probably still burning predominantly carbs. For most other people, it's like largely fat, and then you're just kind of I don't know if it it almost gets easier from a feeling standpoint than because then you just like eat what feels right. Whereas Rachel's like needing to optimize for racing still.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

I forgot these two other bullet points, so um absolutely sort of like the NASCAR pit crew style aid stations that was coming top down from precision, like they really wanted her to uh emphasize that. And then I guess the biggest problem for them over the course of the two and a half days was how consistently ahead of estimates and predictions Rachel was. So just having to like recalculate on the fly um was sort of like their biggest pain point. So just thought that was an interesting thing to throw in.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Yeah, that's some cool, cool insider info, especially a yeah. I mean, that seems to be well, Finn, maybe here's a good question. Like maybe from being on the ground, like what most commonly derails races at Coca-Dona.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

I no longer know everything. I think there I th I think there was a different set of problems for people that were trying to win. I think there's a different set of problems that people are facing trying to win this race in 70 to 80 hours than trying to f win it in 50 to 60.

unknown 19:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Because I do I do think that one of the first major things that's on the chopping block in a 55-hour race is sleep. Yeah. And that is such a strategic thing uh in like quote unquote old school Cocodona, aka two years ago.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

The the other thing too, it's like looking at people come through, and like maybe I just need to go back and watch the previous years and I'm just forgetting after a year, but it feels like more runners at the front are trying to win the race or hitting like the close to physical limits out there. Um, whereas it's like, oh, I I got really tired and I had to sleep, or I got injured, or something. Where it's like some of these people, it's like I ran as hard as I could until my legs or my entire body failed me. And then you get like really long death marches in.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Yeah. And I guess we're I mean, I mean we're right now. And I and we're starting to see that cohort come through, right? Because there are there were a bunch of people that did push it as you're describing.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

And I mean, not everyone is gonna roll the dice and be successful, but yeah, because I mean like Joe, Joe McConaughey, he kind of blew up on day two um in the during the day, and then he rallied really well last night. Courtney kind of blew up too and rallied back. Um Heather Jackson is in the explosion phase right now. I mean, I was just watching on the live stream. She had just come into the final aid station and I think went straight to sleep in the parking lot.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

So ops to Heather, guys. She was somebody none of us had on our women's podium. I we did discuss her in the preview, but I think we had some of our reservations with this being her first foray into this style of racing and this distance. And man, she hung tough for this whole race. I mean, especially days one and day two. She was in that F2 position for a lot of it, battling out with Courtney. And I mean, we have to remember that Heather came to the sport. Very recently.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Four years ago?

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah. And that was via like Black Canyon and Havelina and Coca-Dona is it's girthy.

unknown 22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Cone and Cona Donna. And this is like pure for like Heather's been so fun to follow in terms of just like, I'm doing this because I want to test myself against the best, and I'm curious about this style of race. Like those have seemed to be the two themes for Heather Jackson races. Is like, I'm doing this one because it's hella competitive, or I'm doing this one because I've never done something like this before. And one thing I really admire about Heather is that when she does the type of race where she's like, I've never done this before, she still tries to win it. Like it's not, it's not like a, oh, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna explore it. And like, you know, it's not I'm not going 100% because I I just want to test it out. Heather's like, oh, I'm sending it even though I've never done this before.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

Totally. Um But yeah, Brett, just to maybe like wrap up your your question there a moment ago, and I promise I'm not trying to be to the audience, this is to the audience, I'm not trying to be name-droppy. I just wasn't there on the ground, so I was trying to call people who were. So I called Matt Feldick, who works at Arivipa. You got to talk to Matt. I got to talk to Matt. Well, not not trying to name drop, just saying I'm just doing my homework to the audience. Anyways, talked to I talked to Matt. I talked to Matt because I needed to to do my homework. And I said, Matt, what are what's one of your biggest takeaways from being on? He was doing the a lot of the camera shots for social. What's what was one of your biggest takeaways? And he said, We're we're six years into Coca-Dona. We're at this point where there's a lot of returners like Killy and Korth who are at the front of the race. They understand the course a lot better. They're dialing in cruise spots, but because of the course knowledge, they have it's sinking in that they can take a lot more chances out there. And they just know from repeated years that no matter how you pace it, it's going to be hard at the end. So you had this whole cohort of people like Killian who from the very start at Black Canyon City, they were committed to going to the well at the front, not playing it safe. And they knew that if they could just survive like a lot of the isolated spots on day one, if they could just make it to like the Prescott Valley where the aid stations get more frequent, um you can make take more chances and actually like in a lot of cases survive. And I think we did see that play it with like Cody Poskin, Killian. Um, I actually think DJ Randall's six.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

But the top six finishers have all at least started Cocodona before. No, none of the top six are new to this race.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah. And that's something I mean, A, I need to give more respect for in future previews of this. Like, it does help to have prior Cocodona experience. And I will say, B, I think that's one of the reasons that Cocodona is scary to me as a like if I ever want to participate in it, is just thinking about the years of logistics and like blueprint that a lot of the athletes have at in their quiver. Like there's a lot of knowledge there. And I mean, it makes sense why people are able to shave off hours each year when they return, because there's those little things that you can dial up or switch around. And it will, it does help this year that they had pretty impeccable weather from start to finish.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

That's that's such a good point. How if you want to be competitive at Coca-Dona, at least right now, historically, what we're learning is that you need to be ready to commit to a multi-year process. And we we've talked about that in the past, about Western states being like that. And it seems like there's a lot of there's a lot more people knocking it out of the park on that first year. And I think there's, you know, probably largely due to the playbook being so much better well known for something like Western States, and you're you're doing it in one day. You're not you're not going into day three, which that still seems like the biggest variable.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

Leah, you're on my Coca Codona candidates list. I want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

I want to do it. And I just told Mike before we started recording this episode that exact sentence that I said. Like, that's the part that scares me the most. And also, like just the fact that you see people's trackers start to say like less than one mile per hour of their moving. And I can't fathom having like 50 miles left and having my body only moving less than a mile per hour. Like that would seem so daunting. So I yeah, I want to learn what is going through all of these athletes' heads whenever it seems extremely daunting with X amount of miles to go, and their bodies are just breaking down. Because yeah, the way we were watching Killy and Korth last night made me never want to run Coca-Dona.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Do you do you think you said you want to learn this? Do you think there's a way you can learn this without doing a 200? Or is that the only way you're going to be able to get in that headspace?

SPEAKER_01 27:07

You know, I think it's doing what a lot of the people at the race are doing. I think as we saw Tara Dauer out there pacing, Robin Lesh was pacing uh Rachel. And I think people who might be Coca-Dona curious put themselves on the ground out there.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

They should they show themselves.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

They're like peeking their heads around the bushes.

SPEAKER_04 27:27

Like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Addie Bracey, too. Addie Bracey for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

So we can just go ahead and assume that anyone that paced someone at Coca-Dona is Coco Curious.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Hey, yeah, Careth was out there too.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

I think so. I think so. Okay. Yeah. I mean, this is an ultra-sponsored race, so I could see that whole lineup of ultra athletes here. Imminently.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

Yeah, that'd be cool. It makes sense that Ultra should be the ones trying to dominate this space.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

But who did dominate this space?

SPEAKER_03 27:59

I mean, I guess Nord.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Mount Coast.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

Mount Decoast. I was like Mount Decoast. Yeah, Mount De Coast had the highest saturation of shoes in the top quarter of the field. But I like a landslide.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

I do think that makes sense, though, because they seem to be very invested into the kind of multi-day events with the athletes that they have on the roster.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

I want to give a shout out to Ben Blankenship, who is the athlete manager at Mount DeCoast. And I think it's pretty cool that like he came on board two years ago and he was given the reins to develop a strategy and he specifically isolated Cocodona as the race that he wants to invest their brand into. And he's gonna, he's literally told me verbatim, I am gonna build an athlete team that is specifically built to do well. This is his project, Cocodona. Like he built an athlete team specific to attack Cocodona. And this year, two years into their project, four of the six podium spots. You've got Killian Korth winning the race, Cody Poskin in second, DJ Fox was wearing the H1 start to finish. I think he's an unofficial Mount to Coast athlete, but he was in the H1 all days long. And uh we just saw Meg Eckert round out the women's podium. So four of the six athletes, that's pretty cool. That's super solid. Their athlete strategy is just to pick a race, isolate it and go. And it's like an underserved race, too.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

That's that's a unique brand perspective, especially because something we've been harping on over the last couple years around these episodes are like brands don't seem to care about Coca-Dona just yet.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Yeah. And guess which company's shoes are sold out all the time now on their website. And that's Mount to Coast. Like, go try and buy an H1. You can't unless you're a size 14. And it's been like that for five months.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

It's it's also, I mean, there's been a couple other brands, maybe not quite at the scale of Mount to Coast, but like I have noticed, for example, that UltraSpire has attached themselves to this event. Like they run the Lane Mountain Aid Station. And I don't know if you guys saw this, but at the start line of this year's Coca-Dona, I think every other pack was a traverse. It was the traverse pack. Yeah. So like that the saturation's been impressive. Um, okay, really quickly, I know we have to get to like predictions and a couple other things. One last question on Rachel. And this reminds me, maybe we should do like a mid-year review episode so that we can like properly acknowledge the whole first half of this year, kind of like our end of the year episode. But where do you slot Rachel's performance at this year's Coca-Dona into the context of other great performances? For example, like Lottie Brings at Gorge. Like, how do you guys think about this performance, recency bias aside? Like, where do you slot?

SPEAKER_01 30:47

I have a great answer for this, and I can't really take full credit for it because this is Mike's Mike's thought. And but I was like, yes, that is how I feel. So weird one mind melded into one. Um, two minds melded into one. Okay, so Anne Tracen in 1994 ran a very fast time at Western States. It was her fastest time ever. And that 1994 time, let's say it was like 1720 something, 1730 something, that time would have podiumed every year until 2022 at Western States on women's side.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

So her 1994 time, 27, 28 years would have podiumed. I feel, and so does Mike, feel strongly that Rachel's time that she ran today will be competitive as a women's podium time for a very long time. And I think of Rachel, I think of Rachel to Cocodona as Ann Trayson was to Western states. Like those times were not only competitive in that year, but I do think that time, yeah, maybe somebody down the road will break Rachel's time at Cocodona, but I think it's still going to be historically competitive for years to come.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

That's kind of how I viewed Courtney's Western States course record, like seeing it. I was like, this is going to be a competitive time for a very long time. That's I I love the way you you you worded that about Rachel's run. Um yeah, it it really does feel that way. Where it's like, dude, that was really freaking good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Like, I don't know. And it's hard to think about a list of athletes that would excel at this distance slash terrain. Like when I think about people who could compete who are currently like in the upper echelon of hundred mile races, who would compete at a 250-mile race. Like there's certain people that I'm like, oh, they'd excel in the mountains, they'd excel at this or that. But Rachel's skill set, and I'm not saying it's specific, but like it works really well for Coca-Dona. And I'm not sure there's a lot of other female elite athletes out there whose skill set would translate exactly that way.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Mm-hmm. Yeah, because you I guess Rachel's, I mean, Rachel showed at Chianti that she was like better at running fast than a lot of people thought. Um, which now knowing that her ceiling for that is potentially quite a bit higher, it makes the pace that she was running at Cocodona be like, okay. It's not like she was redlining this whole thing. But it was like Rachel actually has a very good 200-mile pace. But then when you like start thinking about like the durability, the stomach, the sleeve, just staying upright, like staying in the right headspace. It seems like it's so many of those things that are like like the uncoachables.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Like, I don't know how to learn a lot of what Rachel has. Like, I can like looking at it from like a coach's saying, I'm like, okay, I could understand the the fitness part, the strength part, but I'm like, I don't really know how to teach that kind of gut training. Like, I don't know how to teach you to not get injured. I don't know how to teach you to not fall down. I don't need, I don't know how to teach you to not just get pissed off at random things. Like Rachel's like, stays in a good mood. So it's like, yeah, she's all these things that make a perfect storm for a race like this.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

John G is the official apparel partner of the show. And uh look, I was watching the Coca-Cola live stream the past three days, saw a lot of their products out there in the field. One product in particular, their Sun Chaser Hoodie. I ended up picking up a few pairs of this uh yesterday. It's got UPF 50 sun protection, an ultralight feel, secure hood. It is great for both the heat of the day or if you need an extra layer at night. I think it's honestly genuinely like the perfect top for a desert ultra. Also, while we're here, congrats to John G athlete Meg Eckert, who finished third in this year's Women's Field of Kokodona. She went under the old course record finishing just over 63 hours. Amazing. Congrats, Meg. Go check out everything that John G's got at John G.com forward slash singletrack. Also, thanks to Raid Research, the official equipment partner of the show. I think I told you towards the end of last month, but they have a lot of product finally back in stock, including my favorite, their LF2L belt. This piece is trusted by many of the greats in the sport, including Anna Gibson, Anton Krupitchka, Des Linden. There's also some really interesting product that launches on the horizon for Raid. If you were following Marathon de Sablo last month, then you definitely saw Dez Linden wearing a prototype LF15 vest during that event. So stay tuned. In the meantime, go check out everything that they've got at raidresearch.com. So, Leah, just to piggyback on your analysis there, which is excellent. Um, question for you. Rachel's, and again, I don't have her Strabo file up yet. I break you said it might be loading as we speak.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Yeah, I've seen like maybe 70 or 80 miles. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

So loaded. If I back at the like just guessing here, I'm a I because I think Killian's uh average elapsed pace was about 1330 per mile-ish. Guessing maybe Rachel's is like 1315. Uh for how much longer is that the winning? You're saying that that's going to be like the winning pace, like average pace per mile at Cocodona for the first seat.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

I think her time will podium, like be a podium contender at Cocodona for the next 10 years. And I do think Cocodona is kind of I I hate to make Western states analogies, but it's relevant because Western states has grown in competitive nature, especially on the women's side of the field for exponentially over the last 10 years. But I think Cocodona is where Western States was in like the early 2000s. And we're going to see a a boom of times competition come in over the next few years that will give Rachel's time a run for their money, but I think it will actually stand for some amount of time.

SPEAKER_03 37:16

Oh, so it does feel like it's booming on the women's side a little bit quicker than the men's side.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:24

And I I don't know why they just like more confidence in the just the distance, the challenge, like knowing it's going to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

And one of the comments often is like, we need to see brands start investing like in their incentive structure for people running Coca-Dona. And I do think that's one piece. I think brands do recognize that. But I also think there's another piece of athletes have a hard time committing to this lofty goal when there still are those other pieces that make you a desirable athlete and a competitive athlete across the season, like Western states, like UTMB. Because if you run Coca-Dona and you put all your energy and worth into Coca-Dona, you pretty much need to dedicate your season to that. And I don't think there's a lot of athletes that are willing to sacrifice the gains that they make from being a competitive athlete and those other things in order to invest it in Cocodona. However, I do think the investment in Kocodona is worth it for some of these athletes. Like, okay, I'm just talking social media following here for a second, but Rachel went into Kokodona with 30,000 followers or give or take on Instagram. And I think before we even recorded this episode, she was like probably like 75 to 80,000 followers after Kokodona.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

You don't even see jumps like that for uh Olympic athletes. Like uh, because you always see the Olympic stardom where an unknown goes into the Olympics and they hit like a fun-to-watch Olympic sport and they like surprise win gold. Very rarely do you actually see the follower count double like that. And I mean, I I love just like refreshing athletes' Instagram pages during big moments in sports. Um fun hobby of mine.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

She's up over 50,000 new followers as of right now. She's like close to 85,000.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

The impressive thing, like the coolest part about that is that's through Cocodona. Like that means that many people were paying attention to this 250-mile race in Arizona.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Yes. And here's a thought for you guys. So when I first got into ultrunning and well into my current career in ultrarunning, if I meet somebody in the in the gen pop who has heard about ultrarunning, they ask me if I've ever run Bloodville. And when do you think is going to be the turning point in our sport where they ask you if you've run Coca-Dona is the first thing that comes to mind for them.

SPEAKER_04 39:58

Really?

SPEAKER_01 39:59

That's because I think Coca-Dona has kind of bridged into the general population now in terms of relevance.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, this is probably a great place to insert in the live stream stats that we were talking about. And I've got a couple here. Uh so the day, so I mean, every single year Coca-Dona is making a crazy leap in viewership. It's growing at like an exponential rate, the attention for it. Day one stream this year had 205,000 viewers. The day one stream one stream, 205,000 views. The day three stream, which was the high so far for the entire event. Again, this is all rolling. We're recording this midweek, 343,000 views. It's officially the single largest stream of any Mountain Outpost stream ever produced. The next comparable event in the Mountain Outpost live streaming system is Hard Rock. And if you compare the best performing single Hard Rock stream ever to the best performing Coca-Dona stream, uh the Hard Rock stream is 149,000. It was their day one stream one last year to uh that 343 right around when Rachel finished in Killian. So it's already dwarfing hard rock. Because Western States is on the Western States channel. And here's another interesting stat. So um this year's Coca-Dona is starting to approach levels of attention comparable to the 2024 Western States 100 live stream. So if you compare the best performing individual stream at Western States in 24, which was their part two stream around the finishes, it had 281,000 views. That's less than the f the finishing stream for Coca-Dona this year.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

I have a question for you guys, because I am thinking of it myself and I don't know the answer. So Coca-Dona is six years old, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:53

2021, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

What have they done? They as an organization, Air Vapa, Air Vipa and the media, Mountain Outpost, like what have they done to make Coca-Dona what it is from a just popularity standpoint that other races, if they wanted to achieve similar status, could take a lot of I think the gut answer is a combo of things.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

One being an an incredible runner experience, which leads to more people wanting to do it. But even then, that's itself isn't a very big group. But but then when you piece together uh mountain outposts or or whoever it was the good storytelling that comes from it, like on a on what is it it is a beautiful course. This is my favorite live stream. It is beautiful to just watch the drone shots of it. Like this is a day one sunset was like absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Sedona was 10 out of 10.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Yeah, I was like, I I just want to go hang out in Sedona now. Um I think when you pair then the storytelling on top of just a beautiful course, that's when you start getting the magic that happens. And I think the other thing, like like Jamil and Air Vipa, they're really good at building the right relationships. Um remember like Finn, when we did the first year live stream, one of the big talks was still about a lot of pushback from the towns that Coca-Dona was going through. And now it's like these Jerome was on the chopping block. Yeah. And now it sounds like every single one of these towns is like stoked on Kokodona. Even Flagstaff, like no one really in Flagstaff knew what was going on, other than like, oh yeah, I heard there's this crazy long race that's finishing here. Um, because we looked at like we the finish. Allie when we the year we live streamed in 23, there was like six people there at the finish for the winners. Not however many would fit there.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Yeah. I think that was so compelling to me today watching the live stream. Was like I've been in downtown Flagstaff before and like I know what those streets look like without people. That was wild.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

It was packed.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Packed.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

It was it was awesome. I'll I'll add a couple of things to Brett. I mean, I think it's a great prompt. I'll add a couple things to Brett's uh answer. I mean, every single year for the last few years, there has been a feature-length film from Dylan Harris coming out about the event that gets a ton of distribution. On top of that, you can count on probably two or three key professional athletes andor influencers putting out a film of their own that gets also amazing distribution. You've got the Kocodona Chronicles, which are now coming out on a yearly basis, which break down the race basically in real time for anyone that's missing the live stream. So you have that way to consume it. The live stream product is great. Their social media is like ubiquitous and multi-format. Um and yeah, there's just a they have a lot of leverage, but I think because there's just so many people, like every single person that's going to that event is just making content on behalf of the event, too. That's great. It scales that way as well. And they welcome it. And they welcome it.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

Yeah, it's very, you know, creator friendly. So it seems like the movie for this year would probably be about Rachel's win and course record. What or do you think that that's what the movie would be about? And if so, what what would the title be? What would you call it?

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Well, I guess I think it would be about the women's race with Rachel's performance being a key feature. So, like my first my first guess would be like something about being like the queen of Coca-Dona if it was a Rachel-specific feature, if it's more talking about the entire women's field. I've got nothing. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

Well, I I followed Dylan Harris on Instagram, and over the past few months, he has put on his stories all of like he did a trip to Birmingham, Alabama to go spend time with Rachel. He did a trip to Santa Fe, New Mexico to hang out with Meg Eckert. I don't know if he visited Courtney. I think he visited Heather Jackson. So I I think we're gonna get a woman versus a female version of the chase.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

Okay. You know what I would call it.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

That's what we're gonna call it. You've been thinking about this.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

No, I just I've been thinking about this for like three minutes. And then that's why I promptly I would just call 10a.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

I like that.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

Yeah. That's I think that's what I would call it.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Maybe he'll be listening.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

Uh just let me know if you need my address, collect my royalty check. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

We should get to prediction accountability here.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

No, we shouldn't. We really just shouldn't and oh my internet's craving out.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

We're gonna talk about it a little bit. We should.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Let's talk about half of it. How about that?

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Yes, yes, we can, yes. Uh no, this is becoming both uh one of our most beloved and love-hated segments of the show. Keeps us honest. It keeps us honest. And you know what? If we're analyzing the sport, it's probably good for us. But prediction accountability, let's start with the good because there was some good here. Especially thank you to you guys for carrying the team. Your backs must hurt. Uh let's see. Brett, you nailed the women's podium to a T.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Yes. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 47:41

I think I've probably ever done that.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

Brett had Rachel winning, Courtney second, Meg Eggard third. My times were wrong. 6130 win time. So you were you were you believed in a course record, but not to this extent. What did Courtney run? Courtney ran 6158 and change.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

Okay. So you take out Rachel, then second and third weren't too far off of my predictions. Rachel just wrecked it.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Leah, you were pretty dependable here. You got all three just slightly out of order. You had Courtney winning, Rachel second, MegEgort third, and you had a 62 flat. Uh, but also course record. You believed in a course record?

SPEAKER_00 48:22

I did.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Gosh, we're so disrespectful. I had Courtney winning, Rachel second, Mika Thu's third. So I was totally wrong on Mika. But I believed that I believed in a 59-25 course record. I thought that Rachel was gonna stay true to her sub-60 goal. Um that's solid. So Bretton Lee got everyone on the podiums. Brett, you got it exact.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

Yeah. We really need to be like next year for 2027, let's keep a little uh score tally.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

Yeah, we need a whiteboard.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Yeah. Like like like just like mini free trail fantasy, because a lot of the times myself included, like I forgot to lock in my picks for free trail fantasy. But like I I remember to lock in my picks for our preview episode. So maybe we could just do like a 5-3-1 sort of thing. I like it.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

And then loser has to run Coca-Dona next year.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

Piss my arm. Or like winner gets to choose the race that the loser has to run within reason. Please.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

Okay. We're gonna skip the bad because it was just ugly from here on out. Um for the first time, I believe, ever in recorded single track history in our four plus years, five years of doing this, none of us got anyone on our podiums correct. Oh, we went we went we went oh for nine.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

We went oh for nine.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Killian, we're sorry.

SPEAKER_03 49:59

Yeah, we screwed, we screwed up. Um but Brett, we should we should break this down a little bit. Brett, the hangover two. You gotta do your hangover two impression. Finn we effed up. Dude, isn't it Hangover One? Well, don't they do it again in the Hangover Two? Don't they do everything again in the Hangover Two?

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Brett just do this last week on uh when we Zach Millered Zach Miller.

SPEAKER_03 50:26

So you're right. This is the Hangover 2 equivalent.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

This is the Hangover 2.

SPEAKER_03 50:31

Um yeah. Um who did I have on my podium?

SPEAKER_02 50:35

So I'll read this off here. Brett, you had so we all had Joe McConaughey winning. We were all buying that Joe McConaughey stock. Um Brett, your podium was Joe Edder Max, and you had a 59-28 winning time. Leah, you had Joe Jeff Browning, Max 58 flat win time, and I had Joe Max Zach, 5650 winning time. So we were all, I mean, we we all believed we all picked Joe and we all picked Max, and then I went Zach Howard, Brett, you went Edward Ramirez, Leah, you went Jeff Browning.

unknown 51:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

Man.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Man.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

What here's here's where I will say we did decently. We talked about the guys that ended up on the podium. Yes. We talked about them.

SPEAKER_03 51:25

We at least mentioned them, but we I would I'm not gonna speak for you guys, but I severely screwed up just what I thought was possible on this course. And it I mean, it has me even it actually it has me even more interested in this race and this distance because last year it seemed like one thing got proven with Dan Green. And this year, I would say, like Dan Green and Killian Korth are pretty different runners, right? But they both came to a very similar result. And that that fascinates me. Like, I would I want to learn more about you know, Finn, you had talked earlier, or maybe I forget who asked the question, of like, is there gonna be more than one way to win this race? And like, will it all converge down to a similar playbook? What about even just like what type of runner is good at Coca Dona? Um, I I I think it's fascinating that it's is such a different runner running better than last year. I want to learn more. I want to learn more about how that like how he did it. What was the approach like?

SPEAKER_02 52:50

A question I would throw to you is like, and I think one thing that maybe I have been overvaluing in this era of 200s is where uh any given runner's aerobic threshold sits. Because like if you're gonna run, if you're Dan Green or you're Joe McConaughey, 1330, which is the average pace that you would need to hold over the course of 250 miles to win this thing, that's gonna sit well farther below Joe's LT2 than Killian's LT2. And I I think I thought that that counted for something.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

You know, I think it does. But I think what comes into play here are all those things that Brett was talking about work for Rachel, like that multifaceted, all the uncontrollables and unteachables that Rachel has together. Like I would argue the guys that ended up on the podium have a lot of the things that likely went awry for Joe as well. You know, I think you need a lot of the things to come together on race day.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

But you maybe, but you don't necessarily need uh like this this raw aerobic capacity, like a super high aerobic ceiling. That's not like that's not the most important factor.

SPEAKER_03 54:00

Maybe it's fast enough. Look, Caleb Olsen at Western States. Right. Like he's definitely not the fastest 5k runner on that Western states field, but maybe he's fast enough for winning Western states in this generation. Like that's fast enough. Maybe for winning Kokodona this year, this set of tools, or not even this year, this generation of Coca-Dona, whatever. It seems like every single year is a new generation of Cocodona. But uh it's yeah, it seems like right now it's like what what's in the mandatory toolbox? And maybe one of the bigger tools isn't necessarily that top-end aerobic power.

SPEAKER_02 54:47

Maybe it's individual, but I think one of the million-dollar questions right now is what actually limits performance of Coca-Dona? Like what is the single biggest limiter, or is it truly individual per runner?

SPEAKER_01 54:59

It seems individual per runner. Like from watching it, like one person's body breaks, another person's GI goes, another person can't run fast enough. You know, I just feel like it is quite different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Yeah. Yeah. It I mean, and Killian, I would say like one, if I were to give him an award other than first place, uh, I would say it was just straight up toughness. I feel like he just I feel like he just toughed that win out better than most people could have done it. Because I was watching last night, uh, he had just picked up Joe Corcion to pace him. And that was Leah, when you sent this picture of the screenshot, you're like, if we were to explain ultra running to our friends and this is what we had to show him. And at that point, I don't think the live stream had realized that it was actually extremely slick mud, but instead it just looked like he was just wobbling. Um, but there ended up being a reason for it. But then even after that, waking up in the morning and catching up, it sounded like he had had this like glute issue or something that had been giving it just bugging him for the last 20 hours of this race, and seemed like for the most part didn't go away. Because he was it it did appear that he was favoring a side total for a really long time, and it's like that's not going away until you finish the race. And the fact that he just like wanted to win this thing that bad was I I was so I was so impressed just watching that. Like, dude is still going.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

I a thought I had with that is you know, people there's the whole conversation about 200 mile specialists, like would they hold up in a competitive 100-mile race? Western states, UTMB, whatever it might be. And a thought that just came to mind for me was like watching Killian suffer last night. I'm so used to Western states and UTMB following that I watch Western States UTMB and I see somebody start moving that way, struggling that way, having an what looks like an injury. And the next aid station, we see that person DNF and pull out and save it for their next goal race, like the next race that they're gonna line up for. I'm not gonna sacrifice my season for this race. But what we saw from Killian was exactly what Brett said, just like toughness and the polar opposite of what we often see at Western states and UTMB with a lot of athletes.

SPEAKER_03 57:35

Yeah, he just straight up toughed it out.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

Leah, you pointed out to me uh after our preview when we put up our our predictions on social that I didn't give sufficient context for why we were doubting Killian. And I think it's probably fair to retroactively give that context here. I think it's important, you know, just for the just for the record. And you guys can add or subtract to my thoughts here. But given that we have some audience, dozens of dozens of people listen to this thing, and they all play Fantasy Free Trail, I think that we owe it to the people playing Fantasy Free Trail. We have an obligation to make fair and tough assessments. And when I was looking at Killian coming into this race, on the negative side of things, I saw three previous attempts here, two DNFs and an eighth place finish, a persistent allergy problem, which he suggested he had solved for heading into this, but still things were up in the air. Kind of had to wait until Jerome to see. I think that it's controversial, but I think for the most part, UTMB index scores are a decent heuristic and have some predictive potential for outcome at these races. His UTMB index score is 721. There are other guys in this race that are in the eights.

SPEAKER_01 58:49

Women too.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

And women too. They're a decent proxy for competitive expectations. So I was factoring that. And then this is one of the few races in the 200 mile scene that has relative competitive depth. So how would he fare in this scene? That was what I was weighing in my mind. I'm not sure if you guys would add anything, but that was the context in my mind as we were thinking about this preview.

SPEAKER_03 59:11

Yeah, I mean, I feel like we try to be more rational than emotional. At least that was our excuse when we didn't pick Zach. Um, I just pulled up the Free Trail Fantasies, the top 10 group think for all the votes. So on the women's side, Courtney DeWalter got 62% of the first place votes. So that means like 48% went to everyone else. Um, but the the the group think was Courtney, Rachel, Lindsay Dwyer, Meg Eckert. On the men's side, 61% of the first place votes went to Joe McConaughey. Uh Killian Court actually got, they said he'd get second. So a lot of people did not listen to us and still had Killian. Max Jolliffe was third, and Jeff Browning was fourth. Ed Aramira is fifth. There's a lot of people on here that so no Cody Postkin is in this top 10. No DJ Fox is in this top 10 either.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

You know what I appreciate too? So something we talked about in our preview episode was DJ Fox, Cody, Killian all calling their shots prior to Coca-Dona and gunning for the course record. And what do we see? We see two of the three of them under the course record and DJ come within an hour or so, 30, 45 minutes or so of it. Like they knew what they were coming to do there. And like I'm impressed because not that I discounted them shooting their shot, but how often do we see people shooting their shot and kind of either fail miserably, DNF or something? And these guys all nailed it for what they were going out there to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:02

Yeah, I would love to learn more about why. Why did you feel like you could call the shot and do it? Like, because like Finn, like you had said, like the evidence in past race results doesn't seem to line up to the shot that you're calling. But they knew and they ended up being right.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

Why and I think it's I think it's the experience, and I was reading, I think, something Cody had put out last year. But it's like you finish one of these races and you look back on it and you reflect and you say, I could shave off three hours there, two hours here. And I think you know personally, and sometimes it's tough to talk publicly when you're proud of a result at a race, but because you don't want to sandbag the effort, but you know that there's opportunity for improving drastically. And I think that's probably a position a lot of those guys were in.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:54

Yeah, that's that's a good point when you break down maybe sections of the course like that. Um probably how Rachel got down to sub 60 hours.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:04

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:05

I don't think that you accidentally land on a podium for the most part. I think that you have to believe it and there has to be some sort of internal dialogue leading into the race that you're prepared to go there. I think that you have to like really be careful what you aim for because that's exactly you're you're probably gonna come very close to whatever you consciously or subconsciously aimed for at the race. Pretty cool lesson in the power of the mind. I also just love that he this is his fourth shot at it. Like that we're we're past three times a charm. He's coming back here for the fourth time. And I I love the the redemption arc here. Uh massive kudos to him. And for anyone else, like I think of Max Joloff. Love Max. And now he's 0 for 2 on this course, but like that's only halfway to what the you know, the pain that Killian has dealt with, dating back to 22 or 23. So that's really cool. The power of the mind and just like the resilience to keep coming back until you get it right. I do think this was sort of an inflection point here where he's like, if I can't figure out the allergy thing, probably not gonna come back. But like, real, I mean, cool that he stuck with it. It's a great lesson there.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

Also, I'll just add in like when we first encountered Killian, Brett, you and I back in 23 on that live stream, in the ancient year of 2023, Killian was trying to win, he was trying to win a 70-hour race. Fast forward three years, he now has to be equipped to win a 57-hour race. So it's cool that someone from that era and from that cohort, the 200 mile specialists, has evolved their game to stay relevant as the sport has leapfrogged. I would love to hear he had to become a different runner. He had to become a different athlete.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:43

Yeah, I would love to hear from him how he did that. Because a lot of the times it's just not in the cards.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:51

And I think my general doubt has been that the first or second generation of 200-mile specialists likely didn't have the tools to match this evolution. And we've seen this in other areas of support where it's like a generation of runners was good in that generation. They're still like in their quote unquote prime, but they just aren't equipped for the realities of the new one. It's I mean, to give Killing a lot of credit, like he has evolved with the times. This this was a running race.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:16

Yeah, they they painted on that three-point line, and he was like, Yeah, I can actually shoot from back here too.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

So um two years ago, I predicted uh 10 runners under 64, which was nowhere close. But one year later, we got eight under 64. Has Heather finished yet? Do you guys know if Heather's finished?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

Let's see.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:36

No, she's still at that aid station, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

Okay. I think we might get 10 under 65 this year.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:43

We've got Edder, Edder uh Ramirez is en route to the finish now. He's just entering Buffalo Park. Okay. I believe.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

Um, I think maybe the last thing we can talk about is just open questions. I have a few, but do you guys have any other takeaways or like lessons learned in this?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:02

I I just didn't I didn't think that the race would get leveled up this much. Like that I mean I knew it would eventually, but I didn't think we were gonna make as big of a jump, uh I would say a bigger jump from like two years ago to last year. From last year to this year seems even bigger of a jump. And it's like where can this race go? That's an open question. Yeah. Let it just send Finn a DM run single track. Where can how fast is this race going? Let's see your time predictions for 2032.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

Yeah. But yeah, the one last thing for me just on like the predictions, lessons, takeaways thing, is just to I I think I at this point, I mean Killian has my ultimate respect, but I think he's He's absolutely legit. I think he's a factor in every single race moving forward. He's a champion. And I know that when I consider any future previews, I'm going to treat him with that status. You know, I think he's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:14

I'm not doubting Killian anymore. Yeah. Yeah. And he's got great hair. I knew that before, but it was like flowing, extra flowy for this artist. Is he challenging Tim Tolison at this point?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

It's very different hair than Tim.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:32

I've never seen Tim in a visor, I don't think. Um I would be curious to see what it Tim looks like in a visor, but um Yeah, Killian's hair, it seems it's got more like like 90s, like Jonathan Taylor Thomas kind of vibes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

Oh yeah, JTT.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:49

What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:50

Definitely I agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:51

I do get the JTT. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:54

So I'm pretty proud of myself for throwing that one out there. I know. What what are some what are some good JTT movies?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:02

Well, he was on was he on Home Improvement? Yeah, it was Home Improvement.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:05

That's like all I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

We are too old.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

Oh, Tom and Huck. Great movie. What the hell is Tom and Huck? Oh, dude. We should watch that in Ashland this July when we're watching the Tour de France. We're taking breaks from the Tour de France. We're watching Tom and Huck.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

I have a last question for you guys. This is maybe observation. Um, last year we saw Coca-Dona change the careers of Dan Green and then eventually Rachel. Do we see Coca-Dona doing the same this year? And for whom? Something I've thought about just as I've seen Coca-Dona take over every social media platform that I engage with. Like I'll go on Instagram and I'll be like, have you seen this thread? And then I'll go on threads and like that whole feed is Coca-Dona. And yeah, everything is Coca-Dona. But this feels very similar to when Tara Dower set the overall um FKT on the Appalachian show.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

Yeah. And oh wow, blues.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

That changed her life at that time. Women. But that changed her life in a big way. And I think this is a big step up from what Rachel did last year that I could foresee something similar for her.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:24

Yeah. So last year Rachel wins Coca-Dona and it throws her into the professional echelon. This seems to, I feel like this is going to throw her into like the global um, like not saying like popularity is Courtney, but like it's pushing her into the like extreme popularity echelon of like, I feel like she's going to be a relatively like household name uh very soon, if not right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

Yeah, there's been these moments in our sport in recent years where it's been like Courtney's Triple Crown, Tara's FKT, Jasmine's finish at Barclay, and this is feeling this immediate reaction to it is feeling in line with those four, three.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:14

Yeah, because like every media outlet is talking about this, and it's getting picked up on like bigger sports outlets. Like I saw like a Yahoo sports article that just says like Rachel Andrew Clinton wins, you know, Coca-Dona 250 outright. And like it's only gonna get like sports center is probably gonna pick this up because I'm sure they're one of the dozens that listen to the single track podcast. Um yeah, like there are dozens of us. What what non-endemic sponsor is Rachel about to pick up? Because that's that's the gap that gets bridged. Like, you know, Courtney had like the mickel of ultra sponsorship for a bit. Like that's how you know you've broken into a bigger sphere of just like athlete is when you grab one of those. What's Rachel getting?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

I don't know. I need to I need to talk to Rachel more to figure out like what do you do outside of running?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

Uh a few open questions from me. I'll just rattle these off. The first one, actually, I'll throw it. Will does Courtney DeWalter come back next year? Yes or no? Top top of mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:27

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:27

No. Okay. Will all three men come back? Or what portion does, if not all three?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

I think I think all three come back, actually.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:40

Yeah, because like Cody and DJ smelled that victory. Like it's possible. You gotta think Killian wants to defend the title.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:50

Um overall, overall, and overall.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:54

Overall, yeah. Okay. Has there ever been a back to back men's champion at Kokadona? No. Whole every single year.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:10

Yeah, so that's Mike Versteague, Joe McConaughey, Mike McKnight, Harry Sabaratis, Dan Green, Killian Korth. Okay, that's enough reason.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:21

Off the dome.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

Go, Finn. That is the most impressive thing you've done all year.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:26

So that right there, that's enough reason for me to get to if I'm Killian, like we gotta go back acute. I want to be the first person to repeat champ on the men's side. That'd be cool. And you gotta beat Rachel's time now.

unknown 1:11:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:43

Last open question from me. I'm gonna throw my candidates out there, so let me know if there's any additional. So I wrote down candidates for next year question mark from the pro ranks, by the way. From the pro ranks. I wrote down Rod Farvard and Jeff McGavro on the men's side. And on the women's side, I wrote down Abby Hall and Lee English.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:03

Oh, that'd be fun. You know, we'll see. Mine would be I think Karah Arnold would be very fun to see here. I think Tara Dower as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:13

Love it. Yeah. I haven't ooh, I haven't I haven't thought into next year, but uh a name that popped into my head, Tyler Green. I I don't know why, it just came into my eyes. I was like, oh you're yeah, oh Tyler Green. I would like to see Tyler Green run Cocodona. Of course, I would love to see Tara Dower run Cocodona too.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:37

I think Marianne Hogan would be very fun too. However, I don't know what status her body would be in by the time she made it to Flagstaff. I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:46

But yeah, she was out there. I mean, pacing de facto coco curious. Yeah, you're right. Okay. Um a little bit of house gaming here. We're gonna try to get a few post-race interviews. Hopefully, one with Killian, hopefully one with Rachel early next week. I kind of want to do those once the dust has settled. I can only imagine how much how mobbed they're getting right now with everything. Um, but yeah, we'd love to do those. I don't know. I think we're our next up for us is Western States, right? We'll be there Western States week.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:18

Doing the studio thing. Hell yeah. So after this crazy rush of previews, recaps, canyons, this get Twisted Fork. Twisted Fork. We get Twisted Fork, and then we go to Western State. So yeah. Um, anything from you guys before we go? Any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:36

No, it was just really fun, and kudos to Mountain Outpost for the production. It was incredible, gets better every year, and it's still going on. We are only on day three, and the cutoff is not for a while.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:51

Yeah. Be sure to set your alarms or whatever you need to do to watch the golden hour of Coca-Dona. It's pretty cool. Um, I like this race more now than before it started on Monday. It seems like I'm always like this is the I always this is my favorite race to watch. I I love being a fan, watching the live stream, taking it all in, like pop open social media, pop open the trackers. I love doing all the things for Coca-Dona. I loved doing it more this year than last year, even.