Killian's Injury Experiment, Cocodona Lottery Analysis + Versteeg Leaving Satisfy? (Singletrack News)

We discuss athletes on the move (including, possibly, Michael Versteeg?!), Kilian Jornet's injury status, the Cocodona 250 lottery results, Tyler Andrews' Everest record, results from the Sunapee Scramble, Scout Mountain 100, and Twisted Fork Trail Festival, UTMB's latest event announcement in Vietnam, and our favorite content of the week.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Raid is the official equipment partner of the Single Track Podcast. And if you haven't had a chance to test out their new vest, the LF5L, what are you waiting for? I have had mine for a few weeks now. I've gotten to take it out on a multi-hour outing just last week to test some of the features. One of the takeaways for me is the generous and creative carrying capacity on this piece of equipment. I was able to fit two 600 milliliter flasks up front, two more 500 milliliter flasks in the rear hydration carry slots, and then another 500 milliliter flask in the rear pass-through pocket. You couple this with the security of the pack and raid's signature lack bounce. It makes carrying that much hydration relatively effortless. Go check it all out, raidresearch.com. That's r-a-i-d-e research.com. Also, thanks to Norda, makers of my favorite trail running shoes. I have been putting testing mileage on their latest model, the 055, over the past month. This is a fantastic mountain ultra racing shoe. It's already been proven out by athletes like Rachel Enterkin and Jimmy Elam. I think when it drops later this summer, you will see it on a lot of start lines. Don't miss the updates for when it launches. Head over to NordaRun.com now to subscribe to their mailing list for updates. We're back after a uh a two-week hiatus, I guess you call it. Uh this is the Monday, June 8th edition of Single Track News joined by Alyssa Clark. Yeah, we took last Monday off so that I could attend to some extracurricular twisted fork duties, but we're here. There's a lot to discuss. How are you doing, Alyssa?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

I can't believe it's June 7th or June 8th. We record the day before, but how are we already six months into the year? How is Western States? We're we're back in it, baby. Western States hard rock UTMB. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

And two weeks until Broken Arrow.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Two weeks until Broken Arrow, yes. Why I will be on the start line minus the Iron Face challenge of all three races, because why do one when you can do all three?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

See, I I like that. I I I I would like to see more athletes of your caliber for all of the you know, like the mammoth trail fests out there, the broken arrows, where the races are you know separated across three, four days. I like this idea of a group of athletes at your level competing across. I think Leah Yingling is doing the same thing. Like there's a couple, it's it's it's gonna be compelling this year, and I want to see more of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yeah. Yes, I did hear, and you're much closer with Leah, it sounded like she was kind of going back and forth on whether she was gonna do all three. I hope she does. I would love to.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Maybe it is just the 46k. It could just be the 46k.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

I think she signed up for the triple, but I was hearing on a podcast she might, she might just do the 46, but I hope she does all three.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

I should know this because I'm handing her bottles at the 46k, so I should, I should be up to date on this stuff, anyways. Um, first thing here, Verstig, Michael Verstig leaving satisfy question mark. This one is not official. Admittedly, we are relying on the rumor mill here, but it has dominated social media so much the last few days, including some uh meme posts about it that we felt compelled to weigh in. It appears Michael Versteag is no longer with Satisfy. I received a bunch of DMs from single track listeners and viewers pointing out that he no longer follows them on Instagram and the Satisfy affiliation is no longer in his bio. He was also not at Circle Pit. And the rumors are that he is signing with Norda instead. Did you see all this stuff too, Alyssa?

SPEAKER_01 3:39

I have. I've heard rumblings um of things, just kind of the same rumor, Bill, um, so far. But yes, I've heard, oh, we've removed it from his IG. I think there's a Reddit post. I do I try to stay away from Reddit if I can, but I've heard it from others. So yeah, we'll see. But it sounds like some things might be changing.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

And again, this is here are my thoughts. So it's all unconfirmed. I can only speculate, but I would just emphasize that if you study Versteek's career in the sport, he is a lot more than the cultural archetype that was generated during his time at Satisfy. He's a really good, really versatile athlete. I would encourage folks to go check out his blog for prior trip reports and race reports to get a sense of his body of work. Maybe he wants a return to that. Maybe the Satisfy thing was distracting in some senses. Only other thing I'd say is he's typically worn, at least in the years that I was doing Coca-Dona, 24 and 25, he was pretty reliably wearing the 002 Norda model out there. So it doesn't seem like that big of a change product-wise. But yeah, if one of the athlete centerpieces of a brand is possibly on the move to bit earth shattering, especially with Burstieg.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yeah. I could definitely see, and again, have no idea about the Norda front. I could see that being a good fit. I feel like he fits there, they they have that kind of cool person energy. Um, but also he's the race director of Saddles 150 Miller as well. So he's also race director.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Which is a satisfy event. Which is a satisfy event. I think they sponsor it, and I wonder if that's gonna and it looks like all of the marketing is still up on their site for that. I was just gonna point that. That's a great point. So anyway.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

That looks like a fun one. That race.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah, I want to do it one day. I want to do it one day.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

I can see you that fitting in well for you.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

If I ever race again. Uh next up, Jade Bellsberg leaving Ultra. Unclear where she's headed next in a post that went out at the end of May on her personal Instagram account. She indicates that she's leaving the brand that appears on pretty good terms. She specifically shouts out her athlete manager there, Colby Gould, for being one of the nicest and most genuine in the industry, which seems to confirm that. There are no additional hints at where she's headed next. Contract season continues. Alyssa, you are our resident contract expert. Do you have any guesses or I guess do you have any background info on these types of contracts that appear to end? Like, is this a contract that is truly ending midway through the year? Does that happen in our sport?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Um This is probably there's probably, it's not necessarily like a contract that the period ended. It could be that there is something going on that the athlete may need to step away from the contract. And in most contracts, there is not, if it's a mutual parting, there's not a penalty within that. So I would guess that there's something happening that maybe Jade or Ultra needs to step away and it seems to be on very good terms. So I would guess not that her contract ended, you know, whatever, June 2nd. It was probably something more internal.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Okay. Are there ever contracts where it's like you do the year thing and then there's like a month to month? Like a lot of contractors have like month to month things, you know, in other areas of business. Is is month to month a thing in Ultra?

SPEAKER_01 7:09

So I've never seen month to month. Sometimes I'll see like six months has happened. Um, or they'll say have a trial period of like four months, and then the brand that they're trialing with will have the first opportunity to sign for longer. Um, what can also happen is that people will uh or brands will use a um or exercise a uh oh my gosh, extension year, essentially. Um, and so they can or an option year. There we go. Um the option year is essentially like, hey, we're gonna probably, it's probably keeping you at a similar salary. Um, but they have they're able to say, we want to keep you for another year, maybe there's an injury or something along those lines. We're not quite ready to resign for a full term, um, but we don't necessarily want to lose you to someone else. So they'll exercise that option year.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

I think in other sports they call that the franchise tag. I'm not positive, but uh like it cues them up for like a bigger deal like two years down the road. Um we'll see on landing spots for Jade, tons of range, versatility, performs at Broken Arrow, JFK, Gorge, total star in the sport. So it'll be big news. You know, it's she has to be going somewhere. She's in the prime of her career and she's performing great. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Okay. Next up, ACG officially brings radical airflow to the consumer market. These shirts, um, go find them at a running store near you. I I know it's it's been quite a big deal these last few days locally here at Salt Lake Running Company. For those that don't know, these are polyester jerseys, almost like the ones from high school that you'd throw over football shoulder pads that have that's it.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

That's such a good way of putting it. I've never thought about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

So I was just hearkening the glory days of high school football. These are like what you throw over the shoulder pads. They've got the larger holes in them. The goal is to channel more airflow directly to your skin for rapid sweat evaporation while you move. I can't speak to their efficacy. I haven't worn one yet, but you've seen the ACG athletes repping them at trail events across the world over the past 12 to 18 months, perhaps most notably our good friend Caleb Olsen at Western States last year. I have worn the hat version, which I'm not sure is commercially available yet at the LA Marathon back in March. That worked, made a difference. Um your thoughts here. Have you have you tried Radical Airflow?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

No, but I want to. I thought they were sick from the beginning. I know people were very uncertain about them. I thought they were really cool. And I have been, I would love to just try one out. Not that I can wear it, but would love to see one. I know that they carry them at the local running store. We have a great running store um called Milestone Running in San Diego. They started carrying them, and apparently the comp was, wow, this really is rad. So they're doing a good job.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

I have so I I initially wondered if the average trail runner will go for this. The more I thought about it, I actually think that it in the long run or in the short run will be an easier sell because it's I think it's more practical than super shoes for the mid and the back of the pack. I think there's like a very valid debate as to whether like super shoes make sense below like a certain pace or effort level. But um, I think that this is like beyond a fashion statement. It's like I think regardless of who you are, I think that there's applicability here. So um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

I cannot wait for there to be a competition of who gets the best sunburn out of that shirt. It's the sunburn patterns. It's like the back in the tanning days where you put a sticker on. I didn't, I never tanned, but I have seen it. Um so I'm curious who's gonna come away with they forgot maybe too much, some block underneath, and they've got the uh pattern on their arms.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Next up, TrailCon is uh they've just announced their 26th schedule. It's running Monday, June 22nd through Wednesday, June 24th in Olympic Valley, California, nestled between two of the biggest events in North America and worldwide broken air in Western states. This is year three. They'll have vendor villages, lunches, dinners, socials, live pods, panel discussions. Alyssa, you're hosting one of these panels.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

I am, yes. I am talking about the role of uh coaching teams. So going beyond just running coach and uh, you know, the nutritionist, the strength, the agent, all of the pieces that go into getting elite athletes to the start line.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Who's on the panel?

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Still sorting things a little bit, but uh definites for coaches are um Cliff Pittman and John Fitzgerald, who's my coach. Yeah. Yeah, so it'll be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

John has been, I feel like, one of the he's been one of the most prominent coaches in this Western States build, sort of leading his teams out there on the course training camps out of Missoula, like with uh Will Murray and Jen Lichter and Jeff.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

It's wild.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

I I'm like, what do you want to ask him? What do you want to ask him?

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Oh, yeah, I mean, I'm just so curious. And I mean, I see it up close because I have a coaching team as well. I work with uh Meredith Terranova as a nutritionist, Sarah Scazaro as a strength coach, and um Kelly as my agent. And now I brought on um a mental performance coach, Kristen Schindler. So I I think just talking about the coordination and communication and just the relationship building that the team has itself to support the athlete and also how they negotiate roles, because that can it can, I mean, we're so used to having kind of one person do a lot of things. And so, how do you allow people to excel in their specialties and not um kind of step into different lanes? And so I think, I mean, my team has does a great job. They're all very good friends, uh, but I do think just hearing how they navigate that a bit more internally will be quite fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Yeah, you almost need like a project manager or a program manager.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yeah. And with CTS, the run coach is the lead. So they're the ones that are kind of um, you know, navigating kind of from the front. But yeah, I know it's almost like you need a project manager for sure.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Another one that I'm looking forward to, I'm just looking at the schedule here. Tim Tollofson is interviewing Travis Tiger from USADA, and the theme of the discussion is the state of anti-doping efforts and trail. Really excited for that one. I hope that these go on the free trail feed or somewhere online because I'm not sure I'll be able to get to all these and they look great, including yours. So yeah, we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Hopefully though.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Exciting lineup though.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Be some broadcasting. Yeah, I do uh and I know or I hope at least there is a noticeable lack in um kind of diversity, different voices, um, any um para athletes on the panels. And so I am I'm very hopeful that there's still time for some change to happen. But that's something that I really was hoping to see a lot more of. And I believe the trail community can do better with the panels of having just a broader range of voices out there. So that's one hope that I really want for the future and for right now, if we can make some things happen.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Next up, the Western States Endurance Run has signed an exclusive media licensing deal with Yuzu Culture. They are a Shanghai-based running and outdoor sports media company. Uh, this will be for covering the Chinese-speaking region. Yuzu, which operates the Nuclear Kitty and Super Pace On-Site Brands, both amazing names, becomes Western's official. Amazing, right? Amazing. They become their official licensed media partner there. They handle the live broadcast distribution, race promo, Chinese language content and storytelling. Looks like the deal is aiming to bring race coverage, athlete stories, and event features to Chinese audiences across digital and social platforms before anyone freaks out and says, what's happening at the Dylan Corinne? Is this going to no? This is very similar to uh the flow track deal. And this looks to me like classic simulcasting. It's additional specific coverage in the China market, in addition to the main live stream that we all know and love. I've got a couple other points here, but um, your thoughts about this one.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

I mean, I think it's exciting to just see a wider partnership of I mean, it's incredible that other countries want to see Western states. Like it is much more of a US-centered race. And so the fact that we're gaining traction all over the world is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

It looks like this company, Yuzu Culture, also has a pre-existing partnership with UTMB, specifically at their Chiang Mai event in Thailand that's been ongoing since 25 and it runs through the end of the decade. So there is a little bit of precedent in the Trail community around this type of partnership with this specific media outlet. And then I looked this up and found this interesting. Western States has seven qualifier events over in China, including all those by UTMB ones, the Chong Li event that uh ACG has partnered with a few others. And so it I guess it kind of depends on what the goal of the deal is here. Is it to create fans? Is it to generate more participants in the pipeline? Is it both? If it's participants, I'm really curious to see how quickly or how much bigger uh some of these qualifier events get in the next few years, and then what representation looks like in the lottery in the years to come. I know that, you know, a lot of these races, including like Coca-Dona, they boast number of participants, you know, countries represented worldwide. I would love to see, after a few years of this, the percentage of the lottery represented by China. I think it'll be really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Remember when Chiang Mai was a golden ticket race?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

I would that was the only golden ticket race that I was like, I'm in. I wanted to do it so badly because I thought that was my best shot at getting a golden ticket because it was a gnarly hundred miler. Bring it back.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Okay. Crazy prediction that we will revisit in 2030. Here's a crazy prediction. This is this is just me having some fun.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

After the Hoka deal ends in 29, ACG becomes the presenting sponsor of Western States, hearkening back to the early 80s, and Chong Li becomes one of the golden ticket races to get back into Western.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Oh, I could see that. That's a that's a long-term. We'll see. Absolutely. No, I think that's I don't think that's that crazy. I think that's pretty spot on.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Okay, we've got a lot of we've got a lot of racing to talk about. First here, uh, I was gonna say your home state, but you're from Vermont, not New Hampshire. The Son of Peace Scramble served as the US ATF National Classic Mountain Running Championship and the selection race for the U.S. Classic Up Down team that will go to Deffy de Couloir for the WMRA final in October up in Canada. Let's see here. We've got Mason Copy, Dan Kurtz, and Christian Allen representing the men's podium. Alisa Morin, Maya Ryle, and Raina Schwartz on the women's podium. I have some more thoughts to share here, but it looks like Mason Christian, Eris Redding, and Darius Parker took the four team USA spots, and Maya Taylor Tuttle, Casey Enman, and Raina Schwartz took the women's team USA spots. Uh, did you follow the live stream at all? Do you have any any thoughts from this?

SPEAKER_01 19:12

I didn't follow the live stream. I was out running, and so I did not see it. But uh I will say one thing I didn't notice from the live stream is that Mason was rocking a Vibram shirt. And so I'm wondering if that was a potential signing, because they don't give a lot of those tops out unless you are on the team. So that was something I noticed from this.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

That is really cool. Okay, so we'll we'll track that because Mason is a rising star on this board. I'd say these last two years in particular, he's been amazing. From everyone I've talked to, he's just like all around talented, doesn't appear to have any weak spots. But okay, here's one I'm gonna maybe talk just about some of what I saw in the live stream, but this is an interesting thing that I'd love to get your commentary on. On the men's side, Dan Kurtz takes second, and he does not take one of the team USA spots, but he's still gonna go race Duffy Decouloir. His rationale, he wants to race in Brooks kit, not Nike kit. And he's gonna get the exact same travel reimbursements, housing, all that kind of stuff, support from Brooks. So why take that spot and drape himself in Nike or ACG when he could go up there with the exact same support and rep his brand? And I think, I think Courtney Coppinger might do the same thing. She's also a Brooks athlete. So this has nothing to do with them specifically. It's just really interesting to see how there's a little bit of protest there.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah, I I don't know anything about these contracts. I'm gonna put this out there. I've not seen a Brooks contract before. Not in a while. I'm curious if there's a financial incentive for them to do that, that they would be financially compensated more because sometimes in contracts it there are stipulations you must be wearing said brands apparel to be eligible for certain uh certain bonuses. That being said, normally they do have stipulations understanding that to make a world or a US team or what whatever you need to be wearing the kit of that. But I'm curious if Brooks had an internal conversation and maybe incentivized this decision more again, complete I do not know that at all, but that is one of the reasons I could see doing it. Yeah. I I mean I think it goes back to the question. I mean, I was it was funny last year with the worlds team seeing, you know, Katie Scheid and Nike, uh, even though she runs for on, and just yeah, how it does not allow athletes. To represent the brands that they run for and why that's kind of been accepted. Yeah, I don't really know. I wonder if that will change. This seems like a honestly a pretty big step in changing that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

So I have two thoughts here. I wonder if in the future WMRA is going to need to make exclusively professional races a thing in the same way that you can't escape it at the World Championships. Like if you go to that race, you're there representing a country. Um I think we'll talk about in a second these um these European off-road champs that happened in Slovenia this weekend. I think that was also That was also it was also a closed race, quote unquote. This WMR air race is not closed, and so it creates that loophole. And so I think you probably, if I'm the WMR, I probably want to close that loophole in future years. That would be like the easiest way to solve it, I think.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah, I it does seem a bit like a loophole right now. I would not have expected they would be allowed.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

All right. Precision, fuel, and hydration. They are the official nutrition partner of the show. Precision athletes were out at Twisted Fork this past weekend putting up pretty legit performances across the board. Rachel Drake won the 68K. Caleb Olsen and Sarah Humble took second in the men's and women's 30K races, respectively. A lot more to come from their professional roster later this month at Broken Arrow and Western State, so stay tuned. In the meantime, if you're getting dialed for summer racing plans, please go check out their nutrition and hydration planner linked in the show notes of this episode. We've also got a nice 15% discount code there for you too. But that planner is gold for creating a race day plan that makes nutrition an asset instead of a liability. Go check it all out, precisionhydration.com. All right, John G is the official apparel partner of Single Track. And if you haven't already, I strongly encourage that you check out their new race division apparel collection. This includes their gossamer tees and singlets and their pinnacle two-in-one shorts. In particular, I have really been enjoying the shorts. Couple features here. I mean, they ventilate really well when the temps rise. The materials are really durable and they support full range of motion to handle many long efforts. Go check them out at jongy.com. It's J-A-N-J-I.com forward slash singletrack and at checkout. Let them know that we sent you.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

To do that.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Okay. Uh I'll just say a few thoughts. I mean, I I was kind of in and out of the live stream all morning. I I happened to catch a lot more of the men's race, but uh really quickly, Alisa Morin, who I think is from France, which is why she didn't take one of these spots. I think she was a bit of an unknown quantity coming into things because she's been hurt. I think she was dealing with some sort of stress fracture, but I think pretty much led from the gun and dominated this thing. So eyes on her in the future. I think she's a mega talent. Talked a bit about Mason. Dan Kurtz is just an amazing. I think he's one of the best, if not the best, American downhiller in a sport right now. He can, I mean, just watching Christian and Mason in this race, because it's it's a two-loop course, relentless ups, relentless downs, they would create these, they would create a lot of time on the uphills, and like Dan could just close any gap, uh, kind of seemingly at will. So uh, and then I think he's had a tough go of it, like returning from surgery, injuries, and just like momentum in the past. So this was a big result for him. And then I think we've talked about this in Ultra a bunch, and I think it's increasingly applying to the subultra scene, but I think you just need to be good all around, and the sport is at a level right now where the race isn't gonna back off, they're gonna duke up on the uphills, on the downhills. I think in previous eras, maybe the leaders were uh less under the gun the whole time, but I think they're getting squeezed more and more now. I think it looked like Christian felt that. Like Christian was just gapping Dan on the uphills, and I think he ended up taking third because Dan was able to close it and then separate on that final downhill finish. Um yeah, so amazing. I think there's a lot of again, we don't talk a ton about subultra on this podcast, but there's been a lot of really impressive American performances on this scene in the last year. Taylor Stack's third at Zagama, Lauren winning the Golden Trade World Series final last year. The level across the board in the U.S. is pretty impressive right now, and it feels like another half of a really, really, really big sport. Um last thing I'll say too, because I'm kind of rambling. $30,000 prize per seer. Huge kudos to the race director Tom Hooper, who I think has done an amazing job at recruiting big brands to the East Coast scene. In this case, it was Brooks. It has not historically been an easy task to pry these brands from the the mountain west and the Pacific Northwest over to the East Coast. And he's he's creating the case study right now. So so kudos to him.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

I mean, if you look at some of the best mountain runners in the world, a lot of them come from New England. So I do think that yes, you're not getting the elevation that say European races are getting, but in terms of the technicality, I do think that the East Coast is one of the best places we have in the US for this technical, like mountain kind of more sky running type efforts.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Yes. Okay, I'm gonna rattle off some results here and then I'll get your takes. First, Twisted Fork, Rachel Drake and Liam Fleming won the 68K, Hans Troyer and Liz O'Connor win the 30K, Christian Allen and Alexa Aragon win the 15k. Tough weather conditions, they got it done. Scout Mountain 100, this is a new hard rock qualifier race. So I think there was a uh a bit more added attention and intrigue to it this year. Tyler Green takes the win with a new course record of 1948-42. The first person to ever break 20 hours there. And there have been some good guys that have tried Mike McBonagal, Jeff Browning, Ryan Gelfi. I think the old course record was around 2030 on the women's side. Carolyn Harden also sets a new course record, I think multi-hour in 24-25. European Off-Road Championships. This is the third edition. The first one dates back to 2022. It's grown quite a bit. This year brought together 600 of the best trailrunners from 33 European countries uh in the uphill race on day one. Jacob Adkin and Morvin Goodrum took the wins on Saturday in the 52K. It was Frederick Tranchant, who we've talked a ton about in this show in recent weeks. He took the win, and Judith White on the woman's side. And then Sunday was the up and uphill, downhill mountain race. Jan Torella won on the men's side. Hannah Grober on the women's side. I was late tuning in the show. I was kind of focused on that Sunapie stream. Won't miss it next year. It was a great, great, great product to watch and seems to be growing in terms of professionalism, fan interest, general intrigue. The website's great, the live stream is great, really impressive.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yeah, I have to give a shout out to my teammate, um Antoine Charvalin, who came, he won TDS last year. He's on on. He came in third during I don't know which race it was. I think it was a 52K. That would make the most sense. But he started out at on as a shoe designer and development. So he was not a professional athlete and then went pro in the process. And now he's a professional runner for on. He no longer works in the office. And yeah, won TDS last year, fifth at Lavareto, and so third in um European off-trail. Like so cool to see that happen. So have to give a shout out to Antoine on that one.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Amazing call. I had no idea. Uh similar, I would assume, to Vincent Bouillard at Hoka, although I think Vincent kind of keeps one foot in the door on the product side.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Yeah. So Antoine was one of the uh kind of big voices and big forces behind the UltraCloud Pro. So anyone who loves that shoe, which I think is one of the best shoes in the market, thank Antoine. He's putting it to good use now.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

This is great inside. I had no idea. This is great insider knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Yeah, yeah. Had to give him a shout out.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Next up here, Tyler Andrews Everest speed record. Tyler Andrews sets the oxygen assisted speed record on Mount Everest in nine hours, 55 minutes. He did this on May 27th. He beat the previous record by over an hour. He's made at least four prior attempts in the last 12 to 14 months, so there was quite a bit of persistence here. The route is 8.4 miles long, 11,500 feet of climbing. You start at the Everest Base Camp, you get to just over 29,000 feet, of course. Amazing. I listened to his brief interview on Free Trail last Monday, which was really illuminating. Great stuff. I'd go encourage folks to go check that out. Uh, but your thoughts here.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

I mean, he's been after it for a long time. This has been, I know, quite a little bit of a white whale. I think. I mean, you just, it's so delicate the nature of trying to get these speed records in the weather windows on these big mountains. And so was very psyched for him to see that he has been able to make this happen. Because yeah, these can take years because it's not like, oh, I'll just get, you know, try again next month. It's like such a specific weather window and just having everything fall into place to make it happen. So was very stoked to see him pull it off.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

I I found out that he ran collegiately D3 at Tufts University in Massachusetts. And it just reminded me, I think, I think one of the common traits that a lot of these D3 runners share is just that like underdog mentality, the persistence, and the creativity to carve out a career. And I think Tyler Andrews is a great case study example in this. And, you know, he talked in that free trail interview about how, I mean, he comes from an Olympic OTQ marathoning background. So he's he's got that. I think at one point he was training a little bit on the side with Jim Walmsley and the Coconino Cowboys and Flagstaff. So like he's just had this really like rich, diversified running career. And it sounds like he's gonna go right back, like it sounds like he got the Everest monkey off his back, never wants to go back there again. He might do some high mountain stuff, but like he wants to get he wants to go for like I think golden tickets and another marathon, a fast marathon. So good on him.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Love it. Yeah. As a Williams College graduate, so go Nescaq. It uh I always joke that we were not taught any actual real life skills, but we were taught how to think and problem solve.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Which in this AI age I think is actually fantastic. Liberal arts degree for the win. No one was saying that 10 years ago. For the win now, though.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

No one was saying, yeah, being English and an art major, Alyssa, that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

It was brilliant. Turns out it was brilliant. Okay. Uh you know, I I originally wrote this for this next headline, Killian questionable for Wester, but I don't think he's questionable at all. Um a post-Zagama MI, he's going for it in his own creative way. A post-Zagama MRI reveals a horizontal meniscus tear, patellar cartilage damage, and edema in his left knee. The injury traces all the way back to a 2006 patella fracture that has been managed ever since. Apparently it flares up during fast flat running, settles a bit more with vertical training. Yeah, he says on his most recent substack that he plans to recover, experiment with training, and still line up at Western States. Not sure if you read it, but uh what are your what are your takeaways here?

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah, I mean, I saw something along the lines of he's essentially had pain since 2006. And I think the whole internet was like, excuse me? Like Killian's had some amount of pain for the last 20 years and has done all that he's done. So I think there were some funny memes that came out of that statement. Uh I just he finds a way. I mean, he always finds a way. And I felt like last year, well, he was sick, but also he was almost just kind of finding his footing again. And I feel like this year is he's all in. So I hope that this does not stop him. I am really rooting for him.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Yeah, pretty much the same thing for me. I I I wrote here the headline for me is just how he reframed it. He's turning a meniscus tear into a training experiment. And the quote that I pulled from his blog, he says, quote, a setback can also be an opportunity to learn. I see an interesting challenge ahead, recover as quickly as possible, and experiment with new ways of training for races that usually require a lot of impact. And, you know, it's it's also interesting to me. Killian identifies neuromuscular decline as his sharpest drop-off as he started to age, and he kind of connects that to increased risk for injuries. He doesn't really go into it, but I would assume it's like maybe worse reflexes, proprioception, maybe you get a little bit sloppier in how you distribute impact on your legs. But he also says that he's been looking at this data for years, and otherwise at age 38 or 39, he's still improving year over year in like so many other critical performance categories. So like it looks like he's just trying to manage that neuromuscular aspect of his gait and yeah, just like how he's distributing load. Really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

His mind and just his data bank and ability to navigate and understand that data is truly just exceptional. I mean, he's exceptional at everything, but like that truly just blows my mind every time, just to hear at the extent to what he's able to process and put into actual play.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Really quickly here, um I might run through these three and then get your take. So we've got one other injury update. David Roche on Instagram says that he has re-entered the foot that he heard at Havelina last October. It is a four millimeter assist at the planter fascia calcenius insertion. He probably isn't racing Leadville this year, might not race at all in 26. Obviously, wishing the best for him. Um, it's a bummer there. Obviously, I was hoping he'd get back into Western, but if not that, Leadville. So wishing him the best. Two other posts here that I thought are worth bringing up for discussion. One, Marianne Hogan writes about body image. She put a post out on Instagram last week saying that she still gets DMs and comments analyzing her physical appearance as an Ultrunner and how earlier in her career those comments would cause her to try to fit her body into a certain size that wasn't ultimately healthy for her. She says, quote, I'm 35 years old and I've learned the hard way that other people's opinions about my body should never influence my behavior, end quote. I think it's a really good discussion to have, especially for young athletes entering the sport who are looking for signals as to what is normal, what is sustainable, and as a pro athlete, what your relationship should be to food, body image, et cetera. Um yeah, thoughts on thoughts on the David Rose part or or Marianne's uh post?

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Yeah, I mean, it's such a bummer to see that David's still struggling with that. It unfortunately, I feel like sometimes you just have these things keep coming up, and I really hope that he's able to get him get in a better place and feel good again and just enjoy running. Because gosh, he's fun to watch run. Um, as far as the Marion, I you know, I saw that post and if you've been a woman in the I don't just say woman in the world. Um, I get comments all the time about what size I should be, what size I should not be. And it is incredibly frustrating. You do develop a little bit of a shell sometimes, and then other times it just catches you off guard and it really hurts. Uh, unfortunately, it's very, very common. I really appreciated her speaking out about it. I wish she didn't have to. I wish that we were at that point. But it's just a very good reminder. Um, we have to fuel our bodies. I mean, that is what helps us to do what we do. And that's, I think, been so much of a change of what we're seeing in course records going down and people hitting times. Um, but yeah, I just I hate that we have to keep saying it, but thank you, Marion, for saying it because we need reminders.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Yeah, and one of my reactions, it seems, it seems like in other areas of uh like equality and participation, things are getting better. It's it, but it also seems like in this specific area of unwarranted social commentary, meanness, et cetera, this area does not seem to be improving in our sport, which is a bummer.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Nope. It's yeah, it s very strongly exists. And unfortunately, eating disorders, disordered eating habits have not gone away by any means.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Ruth Croft on Instagram writes about whether teenagers should be participating in ultras. She seems to argue against adolescents competing in ultras specifically because, in her view, they aren't physic physically finished developing. They're often at that vulnerable stage that we just discussed for body, image, and identity. And the ultra culture's emphasis on suffering and pushing through pain, in her opinion, conflicts with what she sees as the key values in this time period, which are joy of movement, a healthy relationship with training, technique, etc. Alyssa, should teenagers be in our sport right now?

SPEAKER_01 40:21

It's it's a mmm. All right, I'm just gonna say I d I don't think so. No. I really think that we should wait um and allow people to fully develop. I agree with Ruth that there should be an element of play, of joy, of movement, of just like we can spend the rest of our lives in training, in structured training. Please just love it and enjoy it and don't feel like you have to put that pressure. That being said, I wouldn't necessarily want to discourage someone from going after goals because I think that's amazing. And I truly believe that there are teenagers out there who absolutely love being out there for long periods of time. I just think that it can be less structured than a race setting of I need to go run 100 miles or I need to go run 50 miles. I think that there can be an element of adventure and joy. I hope that's a part of it. Um, I do know that there are teenagers who run ultras, and I just hope that there is so much care being put into the decisions from parents, from caregivers, from coaches, etc., if they are doing it anyway. Um, but as a coach, it makes me really nervous. And it's I would really love for people to just just take a little bit of time. You'll get there so fast and get to explore all of this, but let's just be a little bit careful while we're developing.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Two things for me. The first, it appears that it doesn't matter if you enter the sport earlier. There's like a like the clock starts for like it seems like about a 10 to 15 year run in the sport at most. Like if someone comes into the sport at 17 or 18, it seems like by their early 30s, like shh fit.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

I've been in at 11. Oh my god. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Defy, defy, defy, defy, defy.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Fit is putting the nails in my coffee, and he's like, she's out. No, I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Well, I I I so I I actually think that that would be like a really interesting long-run archives debate. Oh yeah. What are the arguments for and against? Like, is there like a time clock that starts? Uh, does everyone kind of have like the roughly the same span of time? Like if you enter at 30, do you kind of have until like 45? If you enter at 18, is it till like 30? I don't know. I'm just kind of speculating. So that was one of my first reactions. And then I'm watching this documentary right now, which is also gonna be my content of the week, but it's a four-part docuseries on Raphael Nadal. And one of the great docuseries, by the way, I'd put it right up there with the Dark Wizard, which I talked about a few weeks back. Raphael, classic story of a kid who like starts specializing in his sport at age four. By age 19, he's diagnosed with this rare chronic disorder in his left ankle called Mueller-Weiss syndrome, which was like initially diagnosed as this like navicular break, but it just like doesn't heal. And because he has outrageous levels of pain tolerance and stubbornness, and they did like all of these like jerry-rigged fixes, like putting special inserts in his shoes to make it all work the rest of his career, he was able to work through it. But like it's the type of injury that for anyone else, it would just end their career right there. And I think that's one of my worries, is like. Just putting this unnecessary level of intensity and focus and stress on a body that's like that young is still developing. Like there's just too many examples of how that creates medical issues that would like never be the case, you know?

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Yeah, that's gonna play into my content of the week as well.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Did you watch this documentary?

SPEAKER_01 44:22

No, but I have a different one about young runners and getting pushed too hard.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

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SPEAKER_01 46:09

I thought you met 11,000 people applied, and I was like, oh my gosh.

unknown 46:14

Probably.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Okay, 11,000 views. Yeah, probably. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

11,000 views, which was pretty impressive. Uh, just under 2,000 applicants, just under 1,600 first timers, all 50 states represented, 42 countries represented. I believe there's going to be an additional elite field that's built out over time, but a few prominent names that were pulled True Hart Brown, Sage Canada, Zach Howard, Jeff Garmeyer, Heather Jackson, Johanna Antila, Megan McCarty, Lindsay Dwyer. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

Yeah, I was excited. One of my athletes, David O'K O'Callahan from Ireland, got in. Uh, I was very stoked to see that. He's uh it will be his first 200, but that was just very exciting for me. And then I had a lot of athletes who didn't get in. Um, it felt pretty a lot of people did not get in that I kind of expected would sneak in there. So that was surprising to me. Uh, I was excited to see Heather Jackson's name back on there. Uh I am curious how the elite field will be built out. There was some amazing names on there, um, but it felt a little bit less dense than say this year, for example. So I'm curious as race calendars are coming together, what people will be added to um that list as well as they're building out the elite field.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

I am so excited that Heather Jackson is back in. And I I mean, I think she had a really impressive debut this past year. I know you covered it thoroughly as one of the live stream commentators. I need to know the specific details of what it was like for her solo ascending and then descending Eldon and then just stopping at the base station.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

I don't remember. I bet you coming from, I mean, you know this too, and this is not a comment on her. Like, I don't remember a lot of Moab. I'm guessing she probably doesn't remember a lot of it. And Heather, if you're listening, let us know how it was. But I would guess she kind of like woke up and realized she was there just because when you get that sleep deprived, it's really and she might have been aware at the time and then the memory recall, but it's tough.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

Well, uh, storybook. If if there's a really like triumphant return, I mean, great result this year, obviously, but like to be stuck at that aid station, I think many hours, right? At at Trinity Heights, two mile 253, four hours, yeah, with four miles to go. So there's definitely a great potential story there. And I I mean, I have to think she can go for the win now that she's had that experience and knows what it's like to go the distance.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Zach Hower, I'm excited to see him be back. That's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Yeah, and I know he's going for the win too. And uh he had yeah, I think he he obviously gutted it out, which is critical. Um, I think if you have long-term intentions at this race, but yeah, like he was competitive again all through the first two days of this race this past year and great talent. So yeah, that's a good, that's a good call out. Okay, Alyssa, this I think is I just love these like creative like pieces of content that come out from the rants from time to time. Mount DeCoast has a post out on Instagram in this classic letter writing format, essentially asking the Strava engineering team to update their best efforts list to include more longer events. I did not know this because I guess I never paid attention, but the current system caps out best efforts at 50k. So it neglects 50 mile, 100 mile, multi-day, etc. Got quite a bit of traction in commentary on Instagram. Go check out the comments section there. What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 49:58

I thought it was fun. Yeah, I love that they said that because I've noticed, oh, it's just the 50k. That's uh an interesting place to stop. I was kind of surprised they even included 50k because you'd think if they're kind of going for traditional distances, they'd stop at the marathon, but they threw in the 50k. It's like, why not more? So I thought this was a really fun, and you know, Mount to Coast is kind of really leaning into the multi-day distance, etc. So I I think it's great. I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Yeah. I got a latch onto what you said about multi-day there. I think one thing Mount to Coast has done incredibly well since their inception is positioning. I think they want the immediate association with Ultra going even deeper, like you said, to be associated with multi-day. Like they, we talked about this after Cocodona. They put so much of their chips into the Cocodona pot, paid off to a huge extent. To some extent, it reminds me of Merrill making the same play, but in the FKT space, I would I would guess Mount Decoast has been more successful at this strategy. But broadly speaking, I think that this kind of specific positioning tends to work. And I I think we can like broadly call this a social media stunt. I think these are small but meaningful and creative gestures to like reinforce where they stand in the community.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

So um Ultraspire just made a green pack that everyone wanted to wear.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

The traverse. The traverse. Got it, got it right behind me. It's it's a great pack. It's a great pack.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

Yeah. No, I gotta get, I gotta put my hands on it at some point.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Next up here, Christian Morgan, aka Captain Morgan, that's his trail name, is setting out on his eighth fastest-known time attempt on the Appalachian Trail. He's targeting a June 15th start date. In his previous seven attempts, he has gone in a supported fashion with team members, the crew vehicle, all that good stuff. The team at Rabbit Wolf Creative actually made a little doc about his attempt last year that we put on our single track YouTube for those that want to go check it out. Anyways, this time around, he is going self-supported, trying to beat Jeff Garmeyer's really impressive time of 45 days, eight hours, and 37 minutes. Um yeah, I mean, multi, I mean, for me, Alyssa, multi-week, it's such a dice roll. There are so many confounding factors like weather that are just so outside your control. Um wishing Christian the best. I'll be following along. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Yeah. Yeah, same. I mean, he has so much experience on the trail. I've followed his attempts. And I mean, if anyone knows that trail, that guy absolutely knows every nook and cranny. Excited to see him take it on in a different manner. I feel like that'll bring some freshness to maybe his perspective and experience. Um, so yeah, I'm stoked to see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Okay, I've got two bits of multi-day news for you. The first here, we've got another new 200-mile. It's called the Oregon Outback 230. The team at Wonderland Running, which also puts on the Dark Divide Trail Races, has announced Reg is open for their new point-to-point 230-mile race set for mid-July in South Central Oregon on the east side of the Cascades. I don't know a ton. Actually, do you know this region at all?

SPEAKER_01 53:09

I don't, but that that could be toasty.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

Yeah, mid-July.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Uh mid-July. I want to say that it's uh it's much more deserty out in that area, I think. I think that's where it gets a bit deserty, but the pictures are making it look quite green. So I could be very wrong about this. Uh, my organites, let us know what the terrain is out like is like out there. Hopefully, no fire issues. I know that's been a problem in the past for the organ 200. So super exciting to see another one coming up.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Yeah, I think they're a pretty competent race org. They're definitely passionate about the sport. I I think aesthetically the only way to do 200s are either single loops or point-to-point. So they checked the box there. I might send them a DM on Instagram to get more info, but yeah, looks looks interesting. Other piece of news here, Mike McKnight is the race director for the old E from 200. He has decided to postpone the event until at least 2027. Citing, and there's a there's a reel that he made on Instagram, which we'll link to in the show notes, but basically just citing like unrealized workload and just parts of the process that I think um, I think given just how big his racing schedule is this year, I think there was just like a bit of overwhelm there. This race was set to take place up in northeast Utah outside the Cache Valley. Course looked similar to the Bear 100, just like a bit winder, a bit longer, obviously, but beautiful region and wishing the best for Mike. I think it's um yeah, especially with something of this magnitude, if you have any shred of doubt, I think it's great to to postpone, give yourself more time. And uh I I want I want to be up there when uh when the inaugural year happens.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

So yeah. Yeah, uh the comments were super supportive. I mean, he's just got a huge racing gear, and I think just we'll say from a safety standpoint alone, taking an extra year to make sure everything's really dialed is a very wise decision not to jump the gun and and try to put something on when he already has a lot going on this year.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Last piece here before we get to content of the week, there's an uh UTMB adds another event, this one in Vietnam. It's called the Vietnam Highline, Highlands Trail by UTMB debuts this coming January, taking part in the southern part of the country. First UTMB event in the country, co-organized with a local race events partner. They're called Nexus Sport Events. Doing a little bit of research here. 22,000 Vietnamese runners have a UTMB index score. 3,000 have a My UTMB account. So I think there is quite a uh quite a solid market there to invest in. It makes total sense from those standpoints. The event's gonna have 100K through 5K distances. I I pulled up the GPX file for the 100k course, looks pretty cool. It's mostly point-to-point, nearly 19,000. It's 60 miles, nearly 19,000 feet of climbing. Goes over three or four pretty iconic peaks in the region. 19,000 feet of climbing. That's solid. That's that's pretty solid for 100k. Yeah, yeah. So pretty beefy race. Uh I've never been to Vietnam, but this interests me.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Yeah, same. What time of year is it?

SPEAKER_00 56:34

January. So it'd be like for you, it'd be like Hurt time, like Hert 100. That would that could be a good one.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

That could be a good one. Yeah. I love I've also always been meaning to get over to Hong Kong to do the 100K over there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

Steve and Janet uh and team, but on a great way to Hong Kong HKT U, Hong Kong Trail, something along those lines. I should know it. The acronym.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

HK100.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

HK100. Wow, that was really hard. Alison. It's getting late. No, it's not that late. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Lastly, I have I'm only going to focus on one of them. I've got four pieces of content of the week. The first, new Francesco Poopy vlog. I think he's done a great job in the build-up to Western states with the content. This one is as good as the one that I think I referenced on this show a few weeks back. Go check it out. There's a great Alex Hutchinson outside article on fatigue resistance that features Coca Donna and Rachel Entricken. Go check that out. Wright Thompson, who is one of my favorite writers for ESPN, has an amazing coaching profile out on Steve Kerr and the Golden State Warriors. Go check that out. But the thing that I want to focus on for my content of the week is that docuseries that I referenced earlier in the show. It's called Rafa. It's a four-parter on Netflix. Excellent. Folllows a format very similar to the Michael Jordan Last Dance series where it follows tennis legend Raphael Nadal in the present day while also pretty frequently sidebaring and going back in time to follow his career arc from the very beginning. I'm not going to ruin it for the audience, but I was as impressed with this one as I was with the Dark Wizard Dean Potter docuseries. One of the takeaways from me is Rafa has this seemingly like God-given gift at fighting against his body over like a very long period of time, even when it's like really truly shutting down, and still being able to compete at the very highest level of the sport. Like he does this for 20 years. I talked about that chronic injury that he was diagnosed with at 19. That was at the very beginning of his pro career. He then competed for 20 years and won 22 Grand Slam titles, purely because of how badly he wanted to win, how much he loved the sport, how committed he was to the process. Um so yeah, just like there were there were that's like the smallest bit of the documentary to like just this little nugget of him finding the craziest ways to persist. So I had to pick one thing that wasn't gonna ruin it. That was the one go check it out. That's my content of the week. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

Yeah, I'm gonna add that to the list. That sounds great. Uh mine is not kind of along a similar vein. I am almost done with Mary Kane's uh biography, This Is Not About Running. Whew. It is it it is powerful. It's tough. I mean, what she went through is it is it's definitely been a few moments where I have to kind of like step away and step back into it. It she that that was bad. Um and I think just really devastating to hear from um her perspective. So she actually sets it in the present day, so it feels very much like you're in the story with her. I mean, it's her experience, it's her life. Um, it's it's very, very challenging read. I would definitely say if you do struggle with eating disorder, disordered eating, she talks a lot about that. So just you know, take take the care that you need. Um, but I think very powerful, very important story to tell um for our generation of runners. So I really appreciate her vulnerability in sharing her story, and I definitely recommend reading it and just knowing what goes on behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

Is this an advanced copy or is it available in stores?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

No, it's I use an app called Ever and, which is basically it's awesome. It's like $12 a month, and it has so many audiobooks on it, and it you just pay one fee. It's not like you have to pay per audiobook. It has a ton of ebooks on it. Um, so I got it on Everand, but I believe it's available on kind of any there's an Audible or there's an audio version, you can get it on Amazon, any of those. So yes, it is out for public.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

I I'm one of those weirdos that for some reason I can't do audiobooks and I can't do Kindle. I need the physical copy, and then I have a compulsion where I have to underline and circle and take notes in the margins. Like that is how I it's the only way I can read. Even if I never reference the notes again, I have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

Yeah. I've gotten over that. I have I used to do that, but I've I do that less now. I actually will write down or I'll screenshot sentences. So that's fair. I do it, I just do it on uh the online version.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Great, great pick for content of the week. I'll go check it out. Yeah. Very last thing. Very last thing. Uh two weeks ago on this news program, we commented on the feud between Cam Haynes and Sage Canada and the increasingly public, although he's been open about it for years, that you know, Cam has taken wada banned supplements, including certain peptides in recent years, other stuff dating back to the early 2010s. We received a fair bit of criticism for our takes on that episode. I think one of the main criticisms we received was that we spent too much time reflecting on our relationships with Cam and perhaps speaking to what else he has done in the sport. And I think because we did that, some people felt that it undermined our other message that doping in any form and in any context in our sport is illegal and wrong and should not be condoned. And so I wanted to give us the floor here just to offer up any more context, starting with you, Alyssa.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:48

Yeah, I mean, I just appreciate people sharing how they felt. And I just want to say, as a person, as a professional athlete, just hard stop, absolutely no performance-enhancing drugs in the sport, period. Like there's zero question on that. So sincerest apologies if there was ever any question, if that was not our stance. I think it can speak to our, and we truly apologize if that um was not clear. Uh just from a sadness perspective, that it is it's in trail running now. I mean, we've seen that, but it is really very sad that drugs are a part of our sport now, but there is zero acceptability to that, whether your campaign's anyone not acceptable. So that's my stance. It will always be my stance, and I apologize if there was any uncertainty on that period.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:51

Same, same zero tolerance for doping. Doesn't matter if you're a pro, age grouper, front of the pack, mid, back of the pack. If you are signing up for a race, you're agreeing to play by certain set of rules. Yep. And if you're caught cheating, there should be penalty. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:09

Yeah. And whether you are winning the race, you're coming in 180th, you deserve to have the spot that you deserve by everyone playing by the same rules.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

So okay. This has been it. This has been the single track news. Alyssa, thank you so much for the biggest. Thank you, thank you for going long this week. We look forward to next week. Again, this is a very busy month in the world of trail and ultra. As always, let us know how we did. Shoot us a DM on Instagram, leave a comment on YouTube, and keep us abreast of any uh any news. What should we include our next episode? Let us know. Alyssa, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:48

Thanks, everyone.