Rare species, blue birds and the bat man

In this episode of the Wildtalk Podcast, we talk to Tony Henehan about habitat working going on in southwest Michigan, fly away with a discussion about the eastern wild turkey, and we wrap up the episode with a chat about the humble muskrat.

Licensed wildlife rehabilitator directory

Episode Hosts: Rachel Lincoln and Eric Hilliard
Producer/editor: Eric Hilliard

• All things habitat
  • State Wildlife Action Plan
  • iNaturalist
  • Pleasant Peninsula Mural Festival
• All things feathers
  • Bluebirds 
• All things fur
  • Michigan.gov/Bats
  • Bat roosting survey info

Questions or comments about the show? Contact the DNR Wildlife Division at 517-284-9453 (WILD) or email dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov.

Transcript

Announcer
The Michigan DNR Hunt Fish app is your digital connection to all things hunting and fishing in Michigan. Buy, store, and display your hunting and fishing licenses, check your points and chances for elk and bear, apply for the draw, and view drawing results. Access all the hunting and fishing regulations, view your hunter safety certificate, and report your harvest all from within the Michigan DNR Hunt Fish app. Just click the app banner at the top of the page for download instructions at michigan.gov/hunting.

Announcer
You know what that sound means it's time for the Michigan DNR WildTalk podcast. Welcome to the WildTalk podcast for representatives from the DNR Wildlife Division chew the fat and shoot the scat about all things habitat, feathers, and fur. With insights, interviews, and your questions answered on the air you'll get a better picture of what's happening in the world of wildlife here in the great state of Michigan.

Rachel
Hello everyone, and welcome to the June episode of the WildTalk Podcast. This is your host, Rachel Lincoln and here with me today, as always, is my co-host, Eric Hilliard.

Eric
June, the month of baby animals. Baby animals are everywhere. It seems like.

Rachel
I could not agree more. There are fawns that are now around. There's baby raccoons and rabbits and lots of songbirds that have recently hatched. It's a good time to be a baby wildlife.

Eric
Yes, and it's a good time to keep your hands off baby wildlife if you happen to run across them, isn't it?

Rachel
Yes, absolutely. It is the time of year when people will certainly come across baby wildlife. And when you do, here's your not so gentle, gentle reminder. Please don't touch them. Please leave them be.

Eric
If we saw a young child that was left alone, we would be concerned. But with wildlife, oftentimes those younglings are left alone on purpose.

Rachel
Certainly so most of the time, a baby animal's best defense is just to lay low, because they are pretty well camouflaged and they so often have very little scent. They can be left in places that seems fairly open to us. But this the spot's very carefully selected by the mother because the mom thought that spot was safe and secure. So if you come across any critters this June or throughout the rest of the summer, go ahead and observe it just from a safe distance.

Eric
Yes, alone doesn't mean abandoned. And the last thing you want to do is remove that animal, take it home, and then give us a call to find out what you should do with that animal. The best thing to do is to leave it in place. And if you are concerned about the animal being potentially orphaned and in need of some sort of care, we have a list of licensed wildlife rehabilitator who are legally allowed to hold wildlife in captivity, available on our website. We'll link to it in our show notes, but you can find that list at michigan.gov/wildlife. And then just click on the link for the wildlife rehabilitation directory.

Rachel
Is they're always really good reminders as we head into spring baby season. So thanks Eric. We've got a great show cued up today. Joining us is the State Wildlife Action Plan Coordinator Tony Henehan. He'll be on to talk with us about the City Nature Challenge, an event that just occurred across some Michigan cities and is pretty awesome because it highlights how our urban areas, which we so often consider concrete jungles, can actually be quite alive with wildlife. We'll also talk about bluebirds and how you can help bluebirds this year or next couple of years by building nest box in your yards or in your communities. And then we'll also have on John DePue, the state bat specialist, to talk about some community science efforts that are ongoing for bat conservation. Of course, we'll have our regular Mug Me trivia question for you to win a mug of your own, and we will read the names of those who have donated to our Non-game wildlife habitat fund in support of rare species conservation. So this should be a fun June episode for all of you listeners. Before we dive into it, let's hear a word from our forests.

Announcer 2
Trees provide for the well-being of our state. That's why we work so hard to keep our forests healthy and abundant. So wildlife has a home. And so do people. So that there's clean air and water for everyone. And so Michigan's economy can be as strong as the trees that support it, because every branch of forestry ensures that future generations will always have a tree for life and forests for a lifetime. To learn how sustainable forestry benefits your life, visit michigan.gov/forestsforalifetime.

Rachel
Welcome back to the WildTalk podcast. Today we're joined by Tony Henehan, the State Wildlife Action Plan coordinator for the Michigan DNR. He's here to tell us about a really cool community science event that recently took place across several cities in Michigan, and to share how anyone, no matter where they live, can play a role in wildlife conservation just by reporting the animals they see. Thank you for joining us, Tony. We are very much looking forward to hearing about your work and the good community science happening across the state.

Tony
Thanks for having me.

Rachel
Let's start with you telling us about your position and your role with the Wildlife Division.

Tony
Yeah. So like you said, I'm the state wildlife action plan coordinator overseeing the state wildlife action plan. That plan is the state's roadmap for rare species conservation. We identify what we call species of greatest conservation need. These are any rare species, whether they be threatened, endangered or declining, but not yet listed. And I work with staff within the division, within the agency, as well as partners from a variety of agencies, universities, zoos, other organizations like that to conserve these rare species across Michigan.

Rachel
Well, it sounds like it is a really fascinating and fulfilling position. So thanks for coming on the podcast to chat with us about it. Let's start with the City Nature Challenge. Now, can you give us an overview of what this is and how the Wildlife Division was involved?

Tony
Yeah. So this is a four day event that's run at the end of April or early May, depending on the year. It's hosted by iNaturalist. So a program that's run outside of the Michigan DNR and it's an annual event and it's hosted worldwide. So any metropolitan area can sign up to participate by the name it's City Nature Challenge. So we looking for metropolitan or suburban areas. And it's intended to show us just how much biodiversity is in our backyards. This year alone, there were 671 cities from 64 different countries around the world. From those cities, there were 107,000 people that submitted over 3 million observations documenting almost 80,000 species worldwide.

Rachel
That is incredible. 

Tony
Yeah, lots of participation, lots of engagement and excitement around nature. So this year we had Detroit and their their greater their tri-county area, Marquette, as well as the greater Lansing area, in addition to John Ball Zoo in Western Michigan.

Rachel
Awesome. So big urban communities are participating in the city Nature Challenge. That's really exciting to see.

Tony
Yeah, and they had some really great turnout. So I have some some numbers here for you. Marquette at 124 people participate this year, and they found 508 species. The greater Lansing area had 152 people. Find 708 species. West Michigan had 348 people, with 1,380 species, and Detroit at 315 people with a 1,099 species. So that's almost 1,000 people in four metro areas.

Rachel
That is incredible. And with those observations, can you see the individual species that were found, or are there any particularly interesting critters?

Tony
Yeah. So my position deals with what we call species of greatest conservation need. So those are the ones that I'm always really interested in, in figuring out what we found. And so some of the highlights for this year were Red-shouldered hawk, Trumpeter swan, Bald eagle, Wood thrush, Red-headed woodpecker, Eastern meadowlark, Blandings turtle, Gray rat snake, Eastern box turtle, and the Evening bat. And I am a sucker for turtles, so the Blandings turtle stands up to me.

Rachel
Okay. I have not heard of anyone observing an Evening bat. Yeah. As for how. How rare is that?

Tony
It is hard to identify bats, but I'm sure that they had some pretty sophisticated equipment to identify either the echolocation pattern of the species. They also had some pictures, and so they seemed good enough, I think, to identify the species as well.

Rachel
That's incredible. So total. Do you know the total number of observations and participants for the last year or two years?

Tony
Of the four metro areas, this year alone, they submitted 19,458 records. Now, that isn't the total number of species found because there are duplicates of the species. And it's a little hard to overlay that data within the matrix were given. But that's a lot of observations from just a thousand people.

Rachel
And it was that in a specific time frame. So the challenge has have it.

Tony
Yes. So it's a four day event near the end of April, early May. And so from those four days, people found 19,000 observations.

Rachel
That's incredible. I mean, that's a testament to people care about seeing wildlife, right? Especially in these urban areas. I mean, so many people think of cities as concrete jungles. You don't just go into downtown Lansing, Grand Rapids, Detroit and immediately start looking for wildlife. But this shows that there are so many wildlife species in these urban areas, and that they probably actually really matter for biodiversity.

Tony
Yeah, 100%. So how many people do you talk to and you say, you know, do you want to go look at nature? And they might think, yeah, but you know, I don't have the time. I can't drive three hours out to the middle of nowhere to go look at nature with you. And one of the points of the city nature challenge is to show us that nature is all around us. There was a report published in the late 2010s called Nature of Americans, and they really looked into this question, what does nature mean to you? When you ask adults, they say that answer right. It's something that's isolated. It's very far away. It's remote. It's been untouched by humans. And then if you ask kids what's nature? They'll point to the trees in their backyard. They'll point to the beatles on the sidewalk. They'll point to the cardinal that's flying between the bushes. Nature to them is all around them. And so City Nature Challenge shows us just this nature is all around us.

Eric
You know, as we talk about nature, kind of being in these urban areas, it's one of the things we're not really managing for these areas specifically for species either. They're just sort of filling these, these spaces naturally. Right.

Tony
Yeah. So it would be I would say it's a mix. They're either adapting to us, they're existing, coexisting with us or some places they may be still hanging on. So it's important for us to find those species so we know where there may be areas that are important to manage.

Eric
So there. So this data could be valuable then in maybe putting together some sort of a management plan for these areas where we're finding these species where like you said, they might just be hanging on.

Speaker 5
100%. So I lived and worked in Texas before coming to Michigan, and we used iNaturalist a lot down there and promoted it. And some colleagues of mine in the Dallas-Fort Worth area presented some of these findings to one of their suburban areas, and they actually nominated a day in April as iNaturalists Day. So now every April, they go out and spend a day in their parks identifying wildlife and plants and things, and then they use that data to manage those parks. So we too can be using this information to better manage our sites. And public areas, regardless of where they are.

Rachel
And so people who are, you know, you can report these observations to iNaturalist outside of the City Nature challenge. So it's June. We tend to be more outside in June, July and August. Are you looking for any specific types of wildlife observations, or is it best to just report as many wildlife species as you come across?

Tony
That's a great question. So I think first, it's important to talk about what is iNaturalist so that we folks understand what it is. So it's a free program. You can use it on the computer or on your phone. You can get it in the app store. It's available on both Apple and Android phones, so you don't have to worry about having the right phone. Again, it is free. All you do is make an account to get started, and then you're going. And when you use it, the most important component is that you either have a picture of the species that you're trying to identify or submit data for, or if it's an audio recording of the species making a call. So mostly birds and frogs or toads fit this category. It's important also that the photo is identifiable. I love pictures of birds, but sometimes they're very blurry and hard to identify. So we want to make sure that you can actually identify the species. But that's all you need. And then you can upload those photos to iNaturalist. It will ask you some questions about, you know, where did you see the species? Was it on public property or private property? If it's on private then it will help make that data. So that way other people can't find that location and then you just upload it. And it's part community science, part social media. If you don't know what the species is, you can upload it and the community will help you identify it based off your pictures. So you get some really great engagement. Again, when I lived in Texas, I found a cicada on my truck and I took a picture of it because I didn't know what it was. I knew it was a cicada. I didn't know what kind. Two days later, I had messages from a cicada expert from South America who said that this looked like a potential first U.S. record of the cicada. And I hit it with my truck, but it probably hitched a ride on a plant that was brought in from Central to South America. And I found it. So you can find some really cool stuff, and you just got to photograph what's around you, that there's really no assumption that what you're seeing is a common thing. And it's important to document.

Rachel
Yeah, absolutely. And I think from previous conversations we've had, it's important to document even species that you think might be common because you find it valuable to have baseline data, correct? Like knowing what is common or what is popular. Now, even if you see it often, you should still you can still report those things because it could be helpful in the future if the population of that species changes overtime.

Tony
100%. So think about rare species today. You know, a lot of our turtles, some of our snakes, birds and things like that. We have difficulty finding some of those rare species today. And if we had known 30 years ago what where they were found just by people saying, hey, I found this thing today, it helps us out a lot more today to manage those rare species. So if we have common species today, we don't know what they're going to do in the next 100 years. It's important to document those. If in 100 years squirrels are a rare species, researchers are gonna want to know where were they found, what kind of areas did they occupy. And that's important information that we can document.

Rachel
And you are our state wildlife action plan coordinator. But with a naturalist, you can also report observations of plants or wildlife here. Correct?

Tony
That's correct. So I naturalist encourages any observation whether it be a fungus, a plant, an animal a fish. You know, you can as long as you can get a picture of it and upload it. That's what's valuable. Now some of those things, like fungi, are sometimes hard to identify. So you might not get an identification, but it's still important to put it up because who knows, in a couple of years, someone might be looking for pictures of orange fungus, and then all of a sudden, yours is something that's very valuable to know.

Rachel
Yeah. That is these are all really good points. It's good information and it's pretty straightforward and easy, right? We got apps on our phone, useful things. You take pictures of them, upload, and all of a sudden you're contributing to science. Amazing.

Tony
Yeah. And I think it's also important to add that a lot of us have small children in our lives. So at one point or another and they love asking, what's that? Right? And how many of us have been in a situation where we say, what's that? And we say, man, I don't know, but I need to give an answer to this kid. Well, a great way to build a memory and to learn about what's around is take a picture and put it on iNaturalist. It has an AI feature that will auto generate some recommendations of what it thinks it is based off, kind of where you are and what other people are seeing. That's a great way to get a head start on learning about it. But you put it up a couple hours later, you might have an observation for you, and then you can go back and say, hey, remember that thing we saw and you wanted to know what it was? Well, here it it's so it's a great way to just learn about our environment around us so you can gamify it. You can say, let's go find ten, ten new things today and just spend some time making a game out of it.

Rachel
Absolutely. So I had that exact experience in my own backyard because I have a nine year old. And what's that is like his tagline as it is for so many kids. But we have native plants in our yard, you know, trying to be stewards of local pollinators and give them a spot. And we have this. It was a dogwood, a dogwood brush, a bush, excuse me. And it was being eaten by something like every leaf was becoming defoliated. And on the bottom of one of those leaves and you flipped it over, it looked like a deer's ear. It was so furry, with microscopic caterpillars that it looks like some other kind of mammal critter. But we we took we did that. We took photos of it and put it on iNaturalist and had no idea what it was, but plugged in that it was on a dogwood tree and gave the specifics that we could, and somebody later on responded and confirmed it was some caterpillar species that you think it might have been Dogwood caterpillar like it is specific to that host plant. So not only was it really cool to have an idea of what that species was, but that that particular insect was benefiting from the native plant we had planted for it. Now it totally ate all of the leaves. And so we didn't get to enjoy the plant. It was gnarly, but it was, you know, it was doing what native plants are intended to do to help local pollinators. So yeah, iNaturalist is a really great tool for connecting with kids and connecting with nature. It's a great point, Tony. And we touched a little bit on this with urban planning, finding urban wildlife. But all of this community science, this data that is being collected, this has to contribute to to bigger conservation goals. Correct, is how do you incorporate this data in the work that you do?

Tony
When we talk about rare species and documenting rare species, it's important to recognize that that by their nature, they are hard to find, usually. Right. There are they're limited in distribution. They're secretive. They like hiding out. They only come out at certain parts of the day or year, so can be very difficult to find some of these species and we don't have infinite money or people or time. And so how do you go about trying to find data on these species all across state? Well, we do the best we can with the with the funds that we have and the resources that we have. But this is a really great way for people to just help us conserve these species. Document what you see around you. Send it, submit it to iNaturalist that data, parts of it, will come to us through projects that we're doing. We have a HERPS of Michigan project, and so that's documenting reptiles and amphibians. When we download that data every year to, inform us on some of our rare species and under those taxa. But it's something that you can do to help us, because just by knowing a new site or a new location or a confirmation of an old location goes a long way in us understanding how these species are doing and where they're found.

Rachel
All right. Well, thank you so much, Tony, for joining us and showing us how simple actions like sharing what you see in nature can have such a big difference for wildlife conservation in Michigan. We really appreciate your time.

Tony
Thanks for having me. Always happy.

Rachel
And if you want to learn more about some of Michigan's rare, threatened, or endangered wildlife species, there is a really cool event coming up next month that we encourage you to go check out. You will not want to miss the Pleasant Peninsula Mural Festival in Grand Rapids on July 26th. We are big fans of the organization and really encourage folks to go out and see 21 murals of threatened and endangered species that will be painted as part of the main public gallery or exhibition at the Front Avenue underpass in downtown Grand Rapids. The organization paired 21 species from Michigan's threatened and endangered species list, with muralists from all over and researchers for the specific species to pull together these really beautiful murals that we're super excited to see. So July 26th is the event, and if you want to learn more about the event or just the organization, you can check out their website at PleasantPeninsula.org. But all right, folks, you know the drill. Stick around because all things feathers is coming up next.

Announcer 1
There are many camping and lodging opportunities available in Michigan state parks when you choose state park campgrounds. You get more than just a campsite. State parks offer a diverse range of recreational opportunities, including hands-on instructional classes, nature programs, places to fish, boat launches, family friendly events, and much more. Reservations can be made six months in advance, so why wait? Visit MIDNRreservations.com or call 1-800-44-PARKS to make a reservation.

Rachel
This month we're talking about one of the most beloved songbirds and recent migratory arrival, the Eastern bluebird. The scientific name is Sialia sialis and nickname is cutie-patootie. These Eastern bluebirds are striking and the kind of bird that catches and holds your attention. Have you seen any bluebirds this year yet, Eric?

Eric
I have not seen any bluebirds yet this year unless you count a bluebirds school bus.

Rachel
Not exactly the kind of bluebird we're talking about today, but when you do see these birds, they definitely catch your eye. Now the males and females have two different types of plumage. So the males are like the charismatic bluebird image that you get when you think of them. They have that brilliant royal blue coloration on the top of their head and on their back. And then this like brick red, almost rusty color on their throat and chest while the females are just slightly different. So they are a little bit more subdued, but they're more of like a grayish blue tone with a soft orangish brownish color on their breast. And they're just really beautiful birds that you will want to remember that bluebirds are not actually blue. So we talked about this a few episodes ago, but the color that you're seeing when you look at any type of bluebird, it's actually not a blue pigment because birds cannot create blue pigment. But that blue color is actually the way light interacts with their feathers. And the protein molecules called keratin, which is in the feathers. So depending on the light, even the brightest blue is males can look pretty dull from a distance.

Eric
Yeah, it's a lot like me. I look kind of dull from a distance. You got to get up close before I seem interesting.

Rachel
It's all structural, don't worry about it. Now bluebirds are perchers, so they typically are found perched on a fence pole or telephone wire or other structures and in fact, that's where I see the bluebirds that arise in my backyard. I have this cattle fencing that we grow peas on, and it's about eight feet tall, and they're constantly perched on the tops there. And what they're probably doing is looking for food. So they are not often seen around bird feeders. They're not really a bird feeder type species unless you're serving mealworms or caterpillars, which, let's be honest, most of us are not putting those in our bird feeders. So the ground insects. So insects that don't fly, things like crickets, caterpillars, different types of worms, spiders these are all the kinds of insects that bluebirds are looking to eat. And so while you can have bird feeders up in your area and maybe you'll see those bluebirds, they're usually not visiting those feeders and more so visiting your plants. So this is a really cool species. If you are interested in attracting bluebirds or other native birds, putting in plants that attract insects, such as some of our native to Michigan plants is a really cool way to attract native insects and thus follows native birds. It's pretty cool. Their diet is a little seasonally dependent, so of course in the colder months, like in the really early spring or as we approach fall, there really aren't as many insects. And so during that time of year they will eat fruit. So we can see birds kind of seeking out natural fruits to eat from. And even though it's really rare, bluebirds has been observed eating salamanders, shrews, snakes, lizards, and tree frogs, which are honestly all about the same size as a bluebirds. So it's a pretty amazing feat that these small songbirds would take on animals of about their same size. But as we said in last episode, nature is metal.

Eric
So when we're talking about them surviving on native fruits during the winter time, we're talking about them doing that in places other than Michigan, correct?

Rachel
Yes. So they are a migratory species. And so in those colder months, they go down to the south Southeastern states. So if you think like Florida, Louisiana, kind of that Gulf side and even some of them go to overwinter down in Mexico. Now there are some ways that people can help bluebirds and maybe even increase your chances of seeing them. Now Bluebirds nest in cavities, so they're called secondary cavity nesters, which means they rely on existing holes or existing cavities in trees, and they cannot create their own cavities. And so they rely on other species to create those holes. And then they move into those places as their nests. Historically, bluebirds where using dead trees or old fence posts, places where maybe woodpeckers had created these holes in these trees, and then they would move in. But over time, those kinds of habitats has really declined because when you know, trees die, a lot of people choose to remove those and not leave those standing. As forests were removed for infrastructure to be built, a lot of those trees were removed. So bluebirds for a while have had a really hard time surviving. And from around the 1970s era, their populations had actually fallen by over 90%, largely because they had lost their places to nest.

Rachel
Now, in addition to the loss of those trees, invasive European starlings and house sparrows were also coming to North America, which compete for those same type of nest spaces and often beat out the bluebirds. And so it was really this two pronged fork that really hurt bluebird populations in North America.

Eric
Is it politically correct to say that I hate House sparrows?

Rachel
I think most people would agree that it's okay to say you hate House sparrows.

Eric
They're invasive and they're just sort of not very striking birds, certainly not like a bluebird in the way they will just go in, in peck, bluebird babies to death and either throw their corpses out of the nest or just build a new nest on top of their corpses is just super messed up. And yeah, I'm just not a fan of House sparrows.

Rachel
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. It is rather morbid, but at the same time, like, you gotta respect it just a little bit, right? Like that is a heck of a tool for survival.

Eric
Yeah. I mean, it's nature being nature, right? It's just you hate to see such an ugly bird winning out over the over the prettier ones, I guess.

Rachel
There's a hierarchy of birds for you and it is based on appearance?

Eric
I mean, yeah.

Rachel
Yeah, I totally get it. I guess when I think of how sparrows or like cowbirds, which are another nest parasite, I just always think of that song Ain't No Rest for the wicked, like they are a pretty wicked species and they are so abundant and you just see them so frequently in high numbers, right? Because they can't rest, they've got wickedness to put out there. Well, after the bluebird populations suffered a great decline, a lot of conservation organizations and urban communities banded together to help bluebirds, because we can help create those nesting sites that bluebirds need. So an establishment of bluebird trails, in addition to creation, and honestly, just education and instructions for how to build a proper nest box for a bluebird were heavily promoted throughout the 1970s and 80s, and that alone was enough to help resurrect the bluebird population. And Eastern bluebird numbers have been recovering ever since. And it's not just bluebirds, but also Tree swallows, Black-capped chickadees, American kestrels. They also have benefited from nest box being built for those species intentionally and placed in smart areas for birds. So naturally, I'm sure you're wondering like, how do you build a nest for a blue-bluebird? Is it easy and what goes into it? And for the most part, it is relatively easy. There's just a few specifications that you want to make sure you get right, but I really think that just about anybody can build these boxes. The first thing to just know is that the most ideal time to set up a nest box is mid-March, and that's when the breeding season is happening. But if you wanted to take on a summer project and build a few bluebird boxes, you certainly can. And you could install them this year and see what happens. Because bluebirds have multiple broods throughout the summer, you may attract the bluebird and see it nest, or you can just install them kind of early March next year when the breeding season begins.

Rachel
Now, to make the nest box, the first and most important step is to procure some untreated wood. So skip the painting or the staining on the inside just to prevent any potential toxic chemicals or anything from being inside the box where the nest is going to be built. The second is you will need to make a 1.5in entrance hole. Now it has to be only an inch and a half wide because it will keep out those invasive competitors like the House sparrows and the Starlings, they can't fit inside that hole. So you want to make sure it's specifically that dimension. And then the interior, so the dimensions of the box should only be about five inches by five inches with a depth of about 8 to 10in. So it's just enough space for those birds to move in and out and build their nests. And that is about it. Now, when you built your box, you want to make sure to select the right location for it to go. So typically bluebirds are living in open grassy areas with scattered trees now this for many of us is our backyard, so it's a really good place to consider putting them. But if you have a little more space and you've got that grass to forest habitat, putting it along those lines where grassland meets forest is a really good option. Now, bluebirds in the wild seem to prefer nests that are about 50ft in the air, but that's pretty high for us to try to get up to install a box. So there have been studies that have shown that manmade boxes placed in about 4 to 6ft off the ground are just as preferred by bluebirds. So you can kind of install that well within range of what we can reach. You want to make sure that that box is facing East or Southeast, because that's going to catch the morning sun and warm up that box to keep the adults and the nest and the eggs nice and warm and protected. And just for an added layer of protection, you can put a predator guard on the outside of it. That is kind of like a chicken wire type of fencing. And that is going to keep out raccoons, which can be a very serious problem for nesting birds. So please consider adding that predator guard to the front of the box as well.

Eric
Part of me now listening to you talk about the nest boxes facing the morning sun, makes me want to run an experiment where I have one box facing the sunrise, and then maybe a couple other boxes at different angles that aren't with thermometers in each one. So I can see what the actual temperature difference is. I'm like, super curious, but I'm not going to do it. But if I if I had the time and the space, I think that might be an experiment that I would carry out.

Rachel
Yeah, that sounds like such a good science fair project. So even if you don't do it, Eric, maybe one of our listeners or listeners, kids could pursue this as a science fair project and then let us know what they learn.

Eric
Yeah. Anybody out there feel free to steal this is your science fair project and report back to us.

Rachel
Well, lastly, after you have installed the nest box, the only step left is to sit back and enjoy. Now the breeding season happens earlier in the spring. And so kind of right about now into the June, July, August, you'll start to see those eggs hatch and then those baby bluebirds will be in the box and then learning how to fly. And you should have a whole summer of watching these fledglings become adult birds. So it's a good time to watch bluebirds. Let's pivot just to talk about bird nests a little more generally. So it is June, there are a lot of bird nests that are going to be around. So let's talk about what to do when you find a bird nest. There are a lot of birds that can live very comfortably around our homes, which can cause us to come across them more frequently. Birds like Robins, which can perch on your porch or near your porch lights, Chickadees spend a lot of time near our homes as well, and even mallard ducks will lay their nests in our gardens or maybe they have a courtyard. Just let it be. And I know there's a good chance that nest is probably in an inconvenient space, but if you can just remember, this is a temporary situation. Those eggs are only going to be there for a couple of weeks. Many of these are migratory species, and therefore it is illegal for you to touch their eggs or disturb their nest. So when you come across the nest this spring, just make sure you are leaving it alone. While you're out this June and July, remember that there are some really cool birding tools that you can use to help better understand the birds that are in your area. One tool I use every single day, especially during bird migration, is the Merlin Bird ID app. It is such a solid tool for identifying birds by sight, but more impressively by sound. So that when you're hearing birds, you're able to record them and it will help you learn what species it is you're hearing. And then you can also easily submit your sightings to eBird and that is a community science effort where you report your bird observations, and that will help scientists track bird populations around the world. And that is data that is frequently used for conservation and monitoring of specific species. Stick around for a great discussion with Michigan's batman himself.

Announcer 1
The Michigan Geocaching Organization and the DNR are proud to introduce a park for every season. These three geo-tours will take you on a statewide adventure through many parks, trails, and more. There's a beautiful geocoin available, as well as digital souvenirs for your geocaching profile. Find out more by visiting MI-geocaching.org or by clicking on 'view all programs and activities' at michigan.gov/stateparks.

Rachel
Bats play an important role in our ecosystems, and June is a great time to talk about them as they become more active and visible during the warmer months. And there is a new opportunity to participate in bat conservation by reporting bat roost locations. Now to help us understand these fascinating critters, I'm joined by John DePue, a state bat specialist and bat habitat conservation program coordinator for the Michigan DNR. John, thank you so much for joining us.

John
Yeah. Happy to be here.

Rachel
Let's start by having you introduce yourself and tell us about your role with the DNR.

John
Again, John DePue, the state bat specialist and bat HCP coordinator. So my role is kind of all things bats from regulatory, right, assisting folks with our state endangered species, helping folks try to understand the federal side of things, we have a number of our own kind of research projects going on to help mitigate the impacts of the disease white-nose syndrome. I work with a number of different universities on different research topics here in Michigan to try to help, again, that populations mitigate the impacts of white-nose syndrome. Recorded the HCP program, the habitat conservation program, that is a an agreement that the DNR has with the Fish and Wildlife Service that allows us to continue our forest management activities on state DNR lands because we've made an agreement. We did this big assessment and we're doing a number of things to benefit bat conservation. So because we're already doing those things during our forest management practices, it allows us to get an incidental take permit and have certainty and how we can move forward with our forest management activities without potentially having to change those activities every few years. Because we're already doing X, Y, and Z. Like, you know, we're leaving potential roost trees behind where we're avoiding critical habitat features as far as putting trees in there. And in some cases, we're doing specific bat beneficial harvest tree harvest. So that's on state lands, but the other thing is we set this habitat conservation plan up so that private landowners control their lands to have similar coverages and protections and like known conservation measures. This was a side gig for me. I was I've been with the state as a habitat wildlife biologist for 10, 11 years, and I've always done the bat stuff, but with with listings of bats and this habitat conservation plan, there's just so much work involved that became a full time position.

Rachel
You said private landowners can participate in the bat HCP. How do people know if they would be good candidates to have their lands be a part of this program?

John
Currently we are enrolling large landowners, so more then 10,000 acres. That said, if you have lands within a critical habitat feature, so a roost location or a high vernacula, we can work with you to enroll those lands because there are some restrictions that the Fish and Wildlife service will put on those lands, and and we can enroll. You know, I think there's some interest by private landowners that have 1 acre, 10 acres, 20 acres, 40 acres, like what can I do to improve my land to to attract bats or make it better habitat for bats and is this habitat conservation plans like for much larger, right. We're talking you know, thousands of acres bigger impact. But in the very near future hopefully I can come up with a guide, we can the DNR, like hey landowners smaller landowners, here are some cool things that you can do.

Rachel
Yeah you mentioned bat roosts. There is this new bat roost monitoring program that it has recently become available for community members to participate in. Can you tell us a little bit about that program and why it's important?

John
Yeah, sure. It's a program that we initiated with MNFI, the Michigan DNR, and with some consultation, West Michigan wildlife service. So it's a pretty cool partnership. And that is to reach out to the community at large, that is folks that are here, and know if they have a bat roost, a summer roost on their property or know of a bat roost, there could potentially be a roost in a park in a tree. We imagine that most of these are going to be roofs that are on our people structures, right? So whether it's in their camp or in their attic or in their barn. So the idea is for us to get a better idea of where the types of structures that bats are roosting in in the summer, where the where they are in the state. We have bats all throughout the state, but try to have some idea where these roosts are and then ultimately, like the next step actually, is to see if we can get individuals that have these summer roosts on their property to count them in the evening. So it's nice when they when they merge in the evening, you can count how many bats approximately are emerging.

Eric
So just out of curiosity, when you're talking about you're looking at early on in the year, let's say you're somebody who notices you've got bats flying out of your gable vents or something like that. You're like, oh, I've got bats up in my attic. Typically they're going to maybe want to wait until July or August when all of the bats are out flying to potentially patch up that access point versus doing it early on in the year.

John
Yeah, absolutely. So if you have bats in your, structure and you, you want to exclude them from that structure, it's best to do that when the bats are not there. Of course, it's best for the bats, right. Because we if you put on one way doors and you exclude the females like I talked about, they fly out to find food and come back and can't get back to the young, the young of the year going to die. From a bat conservation perspective, we have those colonies of young than not that are going to die. From a from a house homeowner's perspective, then you have the bats that are crawling around in the walls of potentially like the females will come back, they're looking for food. And then you have these dead, dying, rotting bats in your house or walls or whatever. So, you know, we don't want that. So ideally you want to do this just where they come back for the females to give birth. So potentially if they came back like early May and you hear some scratching around, try to put the one way doors and exclude them right away. By the end of May, early June, they're going to the females are going to be giving birth and have young, and that's when there's an issue. And then we want to wait until mid to the end of August and then go out and find the cracks. So it's ideal if you can see them emerge in the summer. But you you can see the cracks that they're coming from. Then you know, when the bats are gone to go and have those patched up like a half inch, a half inch hole crevice, a bat can crawl into.

Rachel
If people want to participate in the bat roost monitoring program, how do they do that?

John
Yeah, it's really simple, right now. They can just search a Michigan bat roost monitoring program or MNFI.batmonitoring. Any of those keywords will get you to the MNFI, web page. And there is instructions on the web page and, and then there's a data. You can just complete those they still have the data form right on the website. You know, we're not asking you to go up in the attic and like try to count them with the flashlight. It's when they're emerging in the evening. So it's, you know, it's typically a nice summer evening if you go out there at sunset and hang out about a half an hour after sunset or just after sunset, you'll start to see them emerge.

Rachel
That's great. And we can also link to the program's web page in our show notes. And that's a really great way people can help participate in bat conservation. Can you remind us how many species of bats do we have in Michigan?

John
We have nine species of bats, and not all of those bats hibernate in in Michigan. So we we have like hibernating bats and long distance migrants. So some of those bats, like the Red bats and the Hoarys and the Tricolors that we talked about, are long distance migrants. And they'll head to like the Southeast for the winter. And then we have our Tricolored bats, Little brown bats, Big brown bats, and Northern long-eared bats. Those they'll migrate, but then they're going to a minor place for the winter that has stable temperatures like cooler, stable temperatures and high humidity.

Rachel
Thank you for coming on the podcast to talk about all things bat habitat conservation that's happening across the state, and for telling us about the ways that people can support bats. We were very happy to have The Batman on the podcast today. So thanks for joining us, John.

John
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me. Happy to talk about bats anytime.

Announcer 1
Michigan.gov/dnrtrails is your destination for trail maps, trail etiquette and trail closure information. Trail information for biking, cross-country skiing, horseback riding, hiking, off road vehicle riding, snowmobiling, snowshoeing, and even water trails for kayaking and canoeing are available. While you're there, remember to check out information about pet friendly recreation, track chairs, and the Iron Belle Trail. All available at michigan.gov/DNRTrails.

Rachel
Now is your opportunity to win a WildTalk Podcast mug, as a thank you to our listeners will be giving away a mug or two every episode. The question was how fast can a turkey fly at top speeds?

Speaker 3
The answer---

Eric
A good clue for that one is that it rhymes with mifty-mive.

Rachel
Oh, right. Good clue. Very helpful. 55 mph.

Eric
It's like a bowling ball with feathers. Maybe more like a beach ball with feathers.

Rachel
A big congratulations to our winners this month, Terry Brown and Curt Kershner. You are our lucky mug winners. Now to be entered into the drawing this month. Test your wildlife knowledge and answer our wildlife quiz question. This months question, "how many species of bats do we have in Michigan?" Email your name and answer to us at DNR-Wildlife@michigan.com. To be entered for a chance to win a mug, be sure to include the subject line as mug and submit your answers by June 15th. We'll announce winners and the answers on next month's podcast, so be sure to listen in and see if you've won. Good luck!

Announcer 1
Michigan Conservation Officers are working hard to protect and keep the outdoors safe for current and future generations. If you witness a natural resources violation, you can call or text the Report all Poaching hotline 24 hours a day at 1-800-292-7800, or fill out the complaint form available at michigan.gov/rap. If you would like more information on becoming a Conservation Officer, click on become a CO at michigan.gov/conservation officers.

Rachel
Well thank you everyone for joining the June edition of the WildTalk Podcast. Remember we are still in the 50th year. The Michigan's endangered species law being established. And if you want to hear your name read aloud on this podcast as a thank you, please consider donating to the Non-game Wildlife Fund. You can simply visit michigan.gov/wildlife and click on the button at the top of that page to donate to the fund. Again, all of that money goes to benefit rare species conservation, like many of the species that were mentioned here today. Remember, if you have questions about wildlife or hunting, you can call (517) 284-9453 or email us at DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov. Have a great month. We'll see you back here in July.

Announcer 1
This has been the WildTalk Podcast, your monthly podcast, airing the first of each month and offering insights into the world of wildlife across the state of Michigan. You can reach the Wildlife Division at (517) 284-9453 or DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov.