The Michigan DNR's Wildtalk Podcast

Kirtland's warblers, blue-winged teal, and the mighty Michigan elk

• Michigan Department of Natural Resources Wildlife Division

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In this episode of the Wildtalk Podcast, In this episode, we talk to Erin Victory about work being done to manage Kirtland’s warbler habitat. We follow that up with a discussion about blue-winged teal and the cap things off with a chat about the mighty, Michigan elk!

Episode Hosts: Rachel Lincoln and Eric Hilliard
Producer/editor: Eric Hilliard

Questions or comments about the show? Contact the DNR Wildlife Division at 517-284-9453 (WILD) or email dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov.

Speaker 1
You know what that sound means. It's time for the Michigan DNRs WildTalk podcast. Welcome to the WildTalk podcast for representatives from the DNR Wildlife Division chew the fat and shoot the scat about all things habitat, feathers, and fur. With insights, interviews and your questions answered on the air you'll get a better picture of what's happening in the world of wildlife here in the great state of Michigan.

Rachel
Welcome to the September episode of the WildTalk Podcast. This is your host, Rachel Lincoln, and here with me today has always is Eric Hilliard. We have a great show lined up for you this month.

Eric
Rachel, what do we have lined up for the month of September?

Rachel
Well, we've got Erin Victory, the Kirtland warbler conservation program manager, here to talk about Kirtland's warbler. It's conservation history here in Michigan. And some recent information we received on the latest population estimates. After that, we'll talk the Blue winged teal and Michigan's mighty elk, which you can see and hear this time of year. 

Eric
And of course, we're going to give people a chance to win one of the highly, highly coveted WildTalk podcast camp mugs. You can't buy them in stores. You can't buy them from us. The only way you can get them is by answering our wildlife trivia question, and being drawn from our selection of participants each month.

Rachel
Gosh, I love those mugs. They are great. But before we jump into the show, we do want to take a moment to recognize those of you who have generously donated to the Non Game Wildlife Fund. Of course, all donations that go into that fund go directly into funding conservation work for rare species, things like the Kirtland's warbler. Or if you're a fan of frogs like I am, salamanders, bats, small critters. This is how those things get funded. Romeo schools and Isabella Williams and also a few anonymous donors contributed this month, which leads us to the total of $1,832 donated within the last year.

Eric
Nice.

Rachel
Yeah, it's a pretty-I'm proud of that number.

Eric
It's a pretty cool last name too, schools.

Rachel
Romeo school.

Eric
Romeo schools.

Rachel
Yeah. Well, thanks Romeo and Isabella. And for any of you who donated anonymously. We do appreciate those contributions. As we mentioned, they go into funding rare species conservation. And remember, if you want to hear your name read aloud on the podcast, you can donate to the Non Game Wildlife Fund by going to michigan.gov/wildlife and clicking the donate button at the top, or finding the link through our show notes.

Eric
We appreciate all of those donations.

Speaker 1
Hey Michigan drivers, a little bird told me your license plate can do more than just tag your car. The Wildlife Habitat plate, featuring the iconic Kirtland warbler, helps protect Michigan's Non Game fish and wildlife through the Non-Game Fish and Wildlife Trust Fund. But hurry, this plate is changing soon. Want to keep the warbler flying? You can even get one as a collector's item. No car required. Support Michigan's wildlife and get your plate before this bird flies away. Visit michigan.gov/SOS.

Rachel
Well, today we're joined by Erin Victory, the DNR Kirtland warbler program coordinator. She's on the show today to talk to us about the Kirtland warbler program and their populations in northern Michigan. Erin, thank you so much for joining us.

Erin
Thank you for having me.

Rachel
Well, let's just start by having you introduce yourself and your role with DNR and the Kirtland warblers program.

Erin
Yeah. So I am with the Wildlife Division and the DNR, and I am stationed in Traverse City. And my purview is as an ecologist planner for the northern Lower Peninsula. And I am also the DNRs program coordinator for the Kirtland Warbler, which occurs mostly here in the northern Lower Peninsula.

Rachel
And the Kirtland warbler has quite the conservation history here in Michigan. Can you fill us in on that history? And they're very near extinction.

Erin
Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing to know about Kirtland's warbler is that they need young jack pine habitat to breed in. But not just any young jack pine habitat, specifically, the jack pine habitat that is found on the glacial, out-washed plains of Michigan. And so this is why Michigan is home to 98% of the global population of Kirtland warbler.

Eric
If I could interject for just a second, what is the glacial out-wash plain?

Erin
Yes, that is an excellent question. So, as you probably know, Michigan has a history of glaciation, right? About 12ish thousand years ago, the peak of the last glacial advancement occurred, and all of Michigan was covered by a glacier. And then as the glacier retreated and sort of like melted, right, with warmer with a warmer climate, there was meltwater coming off of the glacier and those out-washed plains are a result of sort of like all of the sediment that came that kind of settled out as a result of that glacier retreating and melting, sort of as it went. That ice is filled with sediment. And so as it melts and retreats, it kind of, you know, deposits, you know, a number of different types of sediment on the landscape. And so there's that wash plans are sort of these broad, flat expanses, a really thick, sandy soil. When I say thick, I mean, there's, there's like, you know, many, many, many feet deep, right? And so there's a type of sandy soil called grayling sand, which is very it's an extremely well-drained soil that is associated with these out-wash plains. And that is where these jack pine systems sort of flourish. And that is where the Kirkland's warbler finds its home.

Eric
Great. Thank you for that explanation. Very thorough. 

Erin
Yeah.

Rachel
Yes. Very thorough. And why is it? Is there something particular about Jack pine trees that Kirkland warblers are drawn to? What makes that the most suitable habitat for these little birds?

Erin
Yeah, that's another great question. So when these Jack pine trees are young, they have a very low to the ground branching structure that provide protection for the birds, you know, especially for the nest and for the young and also Kirkland's warbler. They're what are called insect cleaners. And so they, you know, poke around on branches and just kind of like pick off bugs, right. And so they do that, you know, in those lower branches of those Jack pine trees up, up to about like mid canopy. And so all that kind of puts all those resources right in range for because they are ground nesters. And so it's kind of like that structure that those Jack pine trees provide. That is what they cue into and, and need for their habitat. And then also has mentioned that those really well-drained soils, keep the ground nice and dry for because as I mentioned, they're ground nesters. Right. And so that's kind of  important to keep that nest nice and dry as you're, you know, laying eggs and hatching them.

Rachel
So earlier this year, the 2025 Kirtland warbler survey occurred. What did those survey results determine or find about Kirtland Warbler numbers, and how does that compare to recent years?

Erin
Yeah. So this census for Kirtland's warbler is the first time that we have noted a decline in the population since, I would say, the late 1980s. So this year, the count, at least across Michigan and Indiana, totaled 1,489 singing males, which we equate to breeding pairs. And then Ontario's numbers still haven't been reported yet. But for context in 2021, Ontario had 22 breeding pairs, and so, you know, when those numbers do come in, we're not expecting that it's going to significantly change. You know those that number. So that represents about 30% decline since our 2021 census which was above 2,000 breeding pairs.

Rachel
Wow okay. So 30% decline do you have can you make any hypotheses or guesses why the decline?

Erin
Yeah. So we're pretty sure that it has to do with a lack of habitat availability. So over the last decade we the land managing agencies here in the northern Lower Peninsula, which is the DNR, and then also the US Forest Service, we have had some challenges in meeting our habitat creation goals annually because sort of the result of the last several decades of habitat management for the species and the age class that is currently on the landscape.

Rachel
So you need a a certain age of tree. What's the most optimal age for a Jack pine forests for Kirtland warbler benefits?

Erin
Yeah. So in order for Jack pine to be commercially marketable, for us to be able to sell it in a timber sale, that needs to be about 60 years of age or older. And because we've been doing some fairly intensive habitat management over the last 30 to 40 years to ensure that we are creating habitat every year and keeping a certain amount of habitat available for the species at any given time. We are now left with manageable landscape that has trees that are mostly less than 40 years of age. And so there's a bit of a gap, like a 20 year or greater gap between the age that the trees are on the landscape versus how old they need to be in order for us to successfully get them sold in a timber sale so that we can get them cut. Because our whole management program is based on cutting mature trees so that we can restart a young Jack pine stand, which is then their breeding habitat. Right. And we have to do a certain amount of that every single year in order to create a steady amount of habitat on the landscape at any given time. And so over the last ten years, because of that gap between what we have available on the landscape in terms of age of the trees and the age of the trees, they need to be in order to be commercially marketable. We haven't been able to sell as many timber sales over the last ten years, which means less acres have been cut, which then results in less acres of young Jack pine habitat for those birds to breed in.

Rachel
Okay, so there are challenges with breeding habitat availability. Are there any other factors that impact the population? I know we've had some strange weather in the last couple of years in northern Michigan. Migration challenges. Anything else impacting populations?

Erin
Yeah, I mean there's always that potential. I it's hard to rule out anything else, but also it's hard to definitively say there's any other causative factors. We are very aware of the habitat availability issue. That's something we've been monitoring over time. But there are other things that could certainly impact the population that we have much less control over. Like for example, they overwinter in the Bahamas, and I believe last winter is an example of that of a time when they had a really dry winter in the Bahamas. And so dry winters in the Bahamas means less insect availability for them to be able to forage on, and so that can result result in higher mortality. Migration itself, obviously, is a challenging time for birds that can lead to some level of mortality. So those are some of the population factors that can also impact population numbers in any given year. But there's also things like just sort of random operational stuff that happens too like a couple of years ago, you know, we grow Jack pine seedlings in a nursery and when they reach a year old in the nursery, then we plant them in the ground.

Erin
Right. That's one of the ways that we create habitat, that young habitat for Kirkland's warbler. But there's a kind of a random hailstorm that happened two years ago that hit that nursery. And half of our Jack pine seedlings got wiped out as a result of that. So that was a case where in that particular year, we weren't able to plant as many trees as we would have. And so then, you know, that also led to less habitat being able to be created in that year as well. So, so some of those annual events, whether it's operational or some kind of population factor, can happen at any given time. Those are random events. And so maybe those things haven't helped the situation, but probably by and large, this is a result of just ten years of not being able to get as much trees cleared off the landscape in order to create new habitat.

Rachel
Okay. And where you remove those trees from is that old Jack pine forests, or do you have specific sites determined where new forests will be planted?

Erin
Yeah. So for on the DNR, on DNR lands, we have about 90,000 acres of dedicated Kirtland's warbler lands. And so this 90,000 acres is where we do all of this management. And so on these 90,000 acres, we cut trees and then it provides habitat between 5 and 15 years old for Kirtland's warbler. And then once those trees hit about 15 years, sometimes up to 20, it grows out of Kirtland's warbler habitat. And then we just allow it to continue to grow in that spot, ideally up until 60 years of age before we cut it again. And then so we allow that that spot to grow up, and then we find another spot that has already mature. In our Kirtland's warbler dedicated many areas to cut and then start the cycle all over again. So it all happens on the same 90,000 acres, and we just sort of rotate, you know, where we cut around the landscape. And like I said, we just cut a certain amount of habitat every year to maintain a steady amount for the birds.

Rachel
So beyond habitat management, are there other strategies or management strategies that you'll put in place to maintain or improve the number of breeding pairs that we have in Michigan, or is it mostly habitat driven?

Erin
It is mostly habitat driven. So like for example, to address this habitat shortage from the last ten years, we are now putting some new management strategies into place in order to kind of bridge that gap, so to speak, between, again, those the ages of Jack pine that we have in the landscape right now versus what is commercially marketable. So we're trying to cut trees in the 30 year age class to see if those can be marketable for the biomass market. And then we also have purchased large forestry masticator to also remove trees that are in the 20 year age class. So by combining those two techniques, removing younger trees, plus a little bit of cutting some of our mature trees, we think that that will enable us to get enough habitat cut every year to meet our habitat goals, while also still allowing a certain portion, the landscape trees on the landscape to mature out to 60 years of age or older, so that in about 2 or 3 decades, we can just go back to that sort of commercially marketable management of just cutting trees at 60 years old and of age, and we should have enough on the landscape. And that should be a self-sustaining system at that time. So it's one of the things we're doing right now to address that issue. The other things that we're doing are, you know, of course, we're monitoring the population. We do a census or a partial census every two years for the Kirtland's warbler population to make sure we keep a finger on the pulse of their numbers. We also monitor the cowbird, the brown headed cowbird population and the nest parasitism rates on Kirkland's warbler every four years. So this summer we did that for the first time since 2018. And we'll do it again in 2029. So those are some other ways that we have to kind of, you know, keep our fingers on the pulse of some of the other factors at play for Kirkland's warbler.

Rachel
Yeah. Could you touch on the cowbird nest parasitism for just a little bit. It's quite a fascinating it's quite fascinating to to know about and why that is such a problem for the Kirkland's warbler.

Erin
Yeah, absolutely. So kind of just to back up and give a little bit of history real quick. So, you know, historically this bird kind of sustained itself on the landscape. The young trees were created by wild fire and there was no Brown-headed cowbird. Right. So it was a fairly self-sustaining system prior to European settlement. But once the European settlement happened and, you know, when people started settling in northern Michigan, wildfire suppression became a big deal. But also there was a lot of land clearing for agriculture and for timber. Right. And it was a result of that land clearing that then expanded the brown headed cowbird range up into northern Michigan. So prior to that, Kirkland's warbler and Brown-headed cowbird had never interacted before. And so and Brown-headed cowbirds are you know, what we call their nest parasitizers. And so other in other words, they lay an egg into another species nest and then they leave it up to that others... the adults of that other species to sort of raise their young, but they're young generally tend to be a little bit bigger and a little bit more aggressive and kind of demand a little bit more attention and care than the young, the species of the nest they're in.  And so they and the adults can't tell the difference. And so the adults tend to then sort of almost preferentially put a lot of resources into that cowbird to the detriment of their own young. And so this is what started happening in the 1900s for Kirtland's warbler. And so we got to a point where due to wildfire suppression, we had no new habitat being created for very little. And all the trees were maturing. And then at the same time we had Kirtland's warbler basically raising a lot of cowbird young instead of their own. And so those two factors together is what really created the population decline initially for Kirtland's warbler. And so after almost 50 years of work, both in terms of cowbird monitoring and control and habitat management, we've been able to overcome those issues for the warbler. But but they're both things that we are going to continue to have to monitor and manage over time because, you know, habitat can't be created up on its own because of wildfire suppression. And there's always a threat cowbirds those nest parasitism rates increase. And so we're always going to have to monitor for that. 

Rachel
In addition to the recent survey results, there was also a meeting for the Kirtland Warbler Conservation team to discuss those survey results. And that was a big collection of different partners and stakeholders who are involved with Kirtland Warbler management in Michigan. Can you speak a little bit about the roles that the different agencies or partners play in that conservation team, and how this collaboration really has strengthened the response to the decline, but also just how we work together to keep Kirtland warblers in Michigan.

Erin
Yeah, absolutely. So this this group, this partnership initially came together once the Kirtland's warbler was listed federally listed under the Endangered Species Act of 1973. That was called the recovery team at that time. And that was the team that was charged with, you know, figuring out all the issues affecting this bird and essentially bringing it back. And then this bird was delisted in 2019 from the federal Endangered Species Act. And so as a result of that process, that recovery team sort of morphed into this conservation team, right? Because now we're sort of in a in a conserving the species, right, trying to maintain the species long term. And so this partnership has been really central to the conservation success of this species. And it's and it consists of land managing agencies both on the breeding range and the non-breeding range. So the breeding range as I mentioned it's primarily Michigan right. We have 90% of the global population. But it has expanded a little bit into Wisconsin and a little bit into Ontario. So when we say the breeding range we're basically mean those three places. And so the Michigan DNR, the U.S. Forest Service and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service all have lands that we manage for Kirkland's warbler here in Michigan. The Wisconsin DNR does the same. And then also the province of Ontario does a little bit as well. So there are there are those agencies that are actually managing for the species on the ground. And then you have some nonprofits like American Bird Conservancy and Huron Pines, and also a group called the Kirtland's Warbler Alliance that brings some expertise, expertise both for the bird itself. In addition to the Jack pine ecosystem and Jack pine barrens, and then also some outreach, advocacy and education as well. There are also some university partners that do research on Kirtland's Warbler. And they help us, they work with us and help us answer all kinds of important questions, both for habitat and also just population dynamics that help us inform our management.

Erin
So, you know, and of course, I think I already mentioned, but folks from the Bahamian National Trust who kind of oversee Kirtland's Warbler on the wintering range, kind of monitor and take care of habitat on the, on the winter range. So all of us together sort of kind of have expertise and responsibilities that span the entire life history of the species. And so in that way, this is a really strong, powerful, collaborative partnership that we have in this conservation team. And and it's it's the reason for the success that we've had for the species.

Rachel
So that is a lot of partners. That's a lot of groups who are all involved with the Kirtland's Warbler. And so with their delisting from the federal endangered species list, you know, these birds have made quite a lot of noise. We talk about them so often, you can see them on the wildlife habitat license plate. You've seen this little yellow bird around on the roadways before. Probably. It's really a special bird that we have here in Michigan. Now if anybody from the public or landowners or bird enthusiasts want to further support Kirtland's Warbler conservation, is there anything they can do?

Erin
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you kind of mentioned the the wildlife habitat license plate. So non-game funding is kind of central to the management of, of our non-game species. Right. And with the delisting of the Kirtland's Warbler from the federal Endangered Species Act, we are no longer eligible for federal funds under that act for this species. And so, you know, management takes a lot of money and resources, right? And especially for Kirtland's Warbler, that is what we call a conservation reliant species, which means that we will have to indefinitely manage this species in order for it to persist on the landscape. Funding is obviously pretty key. And so, yeah, folks are interested in supporting those efforts. The best thing they can do is try to support non-game conservation funding by, you know, purchasing a wildlife habitat license plate is one way to do that. I believe, on our DNR website. There is another way. I think there's like a link or a QR code, but you can directly donate money to the non-game fund in that way.

Eric
And that link is at michigan.gov/wildlife right at the top of the page. And we'll also provide a link for our listeners in the show notes.

Rachel
Yes. And if you donate and you put your name, you'll also get a special shout out on our podcast because we read those donors names on every episode.

Erin
That's amazing. So yeah, so those are great ideas to help contribute. Also, if folks, you know, want to contact legislators and try to promote non-game funding and other funding sources to support these species, that's all really critical to their success. Also, just spreading the word to create awareness and continued support is always beneficial.

Rachel
Yeah, excellent. Those are all really good options for helping not only Kirtland Warblers, but that suite of really rare species that we manage for in Michigan. Last question for you, Erin. Is there one message you would want people to take away about the Kirtland warblers current situation or their potential future situation in here in the Great Lakes State?

Erin
Well, as I mentioned probably several times now, right? Michigan is primarily the home for the species. We we have the basically the the global population for the species in our state. It's a very unique species. And it and it's what it's one of the things that makes our state so unique, right? People come from all over the world to see this species. And so we feel like it is our responsibility to ensure that this species persists on the landscape. You know, ideally and indefinitely. So it does speak to the importance of supporting threatened and endangered species programs as we just discussed. But, you know, it's also just recognizing that this bird is such a unique natural feature of this state. It's one of one of the legacies that we would like to make sure is passed down to future generations. And that's why the work that we do is so important.

Rachel
Most excellent. Well, thank you, Erin, so much for joining us and talking with us about this very special bird and its current conservation status. We really appreciate your time.

Erin
Well, thank you again for having me. This was great.

Rachel
All right, folks, stick around. All things feathers is coming up next.

Speaker
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*Transition music

Rachel
Well, it's September 1st and if you're a waterfowl hunter, you know that that means today is the season opener for the early teal season. Specifically today we're talking about the Blue-winged teal, which is a small dabbling duck we have here in Michigan during the spring, summer and fall months. Not to be mistaken for the Green-winged teal. Very similar in size and color, but there's a little patch on the wing that is blue rather than green.

Eric
Hence the name.

Rachel
Hence the name. Now I mentioned dabblers. So ducks are divided into two categories. We have dabbling ducks and we have diving ducks. And really the biggest difference between the two is how they eat. So dabbling ducks do a little dibble dabble on the surface. They dabble across the top of the water, feeding on insects or aquatic vegetation close to the surface level. So things like bluing teal, mallards, those are dabbling ducks. And then, true to their name, diving ducks dive under the water and often pop up several feet away because they're, you know, going under the surface of the water to fish or seek out aquatic plants at the bottom of these waterways.

Eric
So in Daffy ducks argue about whether it's duck season or rabbit season.

Rachel
Yes. Thank you for that important distinction of our ducks.

Eric
The third category of ducks.

Rachel
Yes. But what about the Mighty Ducks? What classifies them.

Eric
Oh, yes, the Mighty Ducks. The Donald ducks. Yeah, that there's actually several classes of ducks, but the two primary are the dabbling in the diving ducks, I would say. Yes.

Rachel
Blue-wing teal are little ducks that are about average size, so between 14 and 16 inches long, but they only weigh between 8 to 19 ounces with the wingspan of 20 to 24 inches. So it's for Michigan it's a pretty average sized duck. Now I mentioned we have these birds in Michigan in spring, summer and fall because they are quite the long distance migratory bird species. So they arrive quite early in the spring to find wetlands that we have here. In particular, like really shallow inland lakes, streams, kind of smaller, more quiet bodies of water is where you most often can find teal species. And they'll stick around through the summer months. But come early fall, there are some of the very first to go. So they start south on their migration pathway to southern states, and sometimes all the way down into South America. So they are quite the long distance travelers. But now is a really excellent time to go see teal. Or if you are a hunter, go pursue teal. As the early teal season starts today and runs through September 9th. If you're interested in hunting or experiencing the fall bird migration, wetland wonders are a really tremendous spot to do that at. These wetland wonders are across the state, and each one is specifically cared for, for wildlife. And so they have the wetland and habitat components that waterfowl species need to kind of stick in this area or use it as a fly over or a stopping ground during their migration. And so you can see a lot of really cool birds and really high numbers at these locations.

Rachel
We have all of those locations online on our website. Now, some of these places will have managed hunt areas. And so if you're a hunter looking to do a little waterfowl hunting, there's going to be draws that happen during the day that will assign you a location on these areas and a specific time to go do your hunting so that you have a really good opportunity to see birds. And if you are wanting to just take a walk out there and do a little bird watching, these areas may have some restricted access from September 1st through December 15th, but if you call the headquarters for those wetland wonders beforehand, you get an idea of areas that are off limits during the hunting zone and find areas that are going to be really optimal for you to visit safely and have some really epic birding experiences. All that information is on our website at michigan.gov/wetlandwonders, and we hope that you'll check it out, because these places really are special.

Eric
And we'll be sure to throw that link in our show notes as well.

Rachel
Well, whether you head out to a wetland wonders or not, we hope that you'll spend some time outside this September and hopefully see a teal or some other cool waterfowl species that we've got out there this time of year.

Speaker
3,300 miles of Great Lakes shoreline, 11,000 inland lakes, 56,000 miles of rivers and streams. Fish, too many to count. All you need to do is grab your gear, buy your fishing license, and get out there. Get your Michigan fishing license in store in the Michigan DNR Hunt Fish app, or online at Michigan.gov/DNRLicenses.

*Transition music

Rachel
Well it is September and for anybody who lives in northern Michigan, there's one species that's probably top of mind. And that is the mighty Michigan elk.

Eric
Such a big animal at a massive, massive animal.

Rachel
It truly is. It's one of our largest deer species. So it is in the deer family.

Eric
But it's not a deer.

Rachel
It is not a deer.

Eric
Don't shoot it, please. It. During deer series, during deer season.

Rachel
If it's taller than you, it's off limits and most elk are going to be taller than you.

Eric
If you say, oh my gosh, this is the biggest deer I've ever seen in my life, no one is going to believe me unless I can take this animal down. Just don't do it.

Rachel
And you may think that that's a ridiculous warning for us to issue, but it's not. It happens just about every year, unfortunately.

Eric
You have people think, wow, I'm so lucky to shoot this large deer. And it's an elk. 

Rachel
Michigan has an elk herd, and if you want your best chance to spot an elk this September, visit the Pigeon River Country State Forest just outside of Gaylord. Now, in that area, we have between 900 and 1,100 elk is our best estimate. And while these animals are truly enormous, like weighing anywhere from 600 to 900 pounds and standing at about six feet high at the shoulder, they can be quite elusive in the woods because they're just kind of these quiet, calm creatures for a vast majority of the year, and so they can go pretty unnoticed except for September and October, when they are much more mobile. They're kind of hanging out in open spaces. They are looking for mates, they are bugling. So you can kind of follow the sounds to see where they're at, and you just have your best chance at seeing some of the most remarkable species we have here in Michigan. Not only are the bodies of these elk enormous, but the males, the bull elk, carry these impressively heavy antlers, and a fully grown bull can carry an antler rack that stretches above their head up to six feet, and they are packed with bone, nerves and blood vessels and can weigh up to 40 pounds. And even the size and the weight of those antlers, they still will shed and regrow those every year. It's quite amazing.

Eric
I'm glad I don't have antlers that would hurt my neck carrying 40 pounds around on my head.

Rachel
It does. It does have to. I wonder if that hurts their neck or during the shedding season. Like to have 40 pounds, just kind of loosely attached to the top of your head and you have to shake them off and it's irritating and grating until you do.

Eric
And then they fall off and you're like, holy cow, my head. It's like a you imagine just the relief of not carrying around that much weight.

Rachel
I know what it feels like when I take my hair out of a ponytail, and that relief alone can sometimes bring a tear to your eye. The elk herd that we have today is actually not our original native elk herd. It's the result of a pretty substantial conservation effort in the late 1800s early 1900s. Like so many other of our wildlife species, elk started to disappear from Michigan, largely due to habitat loss and overhunting. Because we didn't have regulated hunting seasons yet, and so we didn't know how many we had, nor did we know how many could be harvested so that they had enough to replenish their herd. And so they dwindled down to none. There were no elk left in Michigan. But then in about 1918, there were seven Rocky Mountain elk brought to Wolverine, Michigan by rail. So they loaded up seven elk. They put them on a train. They trained them up to the northern Lower Peninsula and released them. And from there, the Cheboygan Seven, as they are endearingly named, grew to replenish the population into what we know now, as you know, near or potentially over a thousand elk in our wild elk herd.

Eric
That must have been a pretty wild train ride for those elk.

Rachel
Yeah, it absolutely must have been an actually.

Eric
It would be like us being thrown onto like an alien spacecraft and flown around. It would just be something completely foreign to us that suddenly we are on a, in our case, ship flying through space for them on a ship flying through and across the hills of North America.

Rachel
And then you just dropped in the middle of nowhere in a place that looks very different from where you came from, and you somehow make it work.

Eric
Yeah. My first question to my other fellow elk would have been, the heck happened to the mountains.

Rachel
Yeah. No kidding. I'm actually so in the Pigeon River country state forest. They have a discovery center there, and it's a super cool, like educational spot where you can go and learn all about the area. But they have an exhibit that's a rail car that the elk were trained in. And you can see what it looked like and how they were kind of stored on the car and what that experience would have looked like for them. And there's some photos from when they were released and what the habitat looks like then, because there was I mean, habitat loss was the biggest reason why we lost them.

Eric
Photos of them hanging out in the bar car of the train, getting a nightcap.

Rachel
Playing poker.

Eric
And playing poker. Yeah.

Rachel
Yep. You got it. So if you're a history buff, I would check out the discovery Center. It's pretty fantastic spot.

Eric
Yeah, but don't go there expecting photos of elk and bar cars playing poker, because that was just a joke. I'm sure you all figured that out, though.

Rachel
Or do to expect it. See, what happens after that exhibit is when you visit, tell Sandy we said hi. Now, Eric, I do have some really good elk trivia questions. If you dare to play, I'll ask you some questions. You tell me if you have the answers. Okay. True or false? 

Eric
True. 

Rachel
You didn't even hear the question. But yes, your answer is correct.

Rachel
Elk are part of the deer family. Do you know how many species in Michigan we have that are in the deer family?

Eric
We have three.

Rachel
What are the three?

Eric
We have whitetail deer. We have elk and we have moose.

Rachel
Ding ding ding ding ding. All of that is correct. Well done. Next question. What's the name...

Eric
False

Rachel
Wrong. You lose.

Eric
What's the name?

Rachel
You are the weakest link. Goodbye. What's the name of an elk's top two canine teeth? Now, these are special teeth. I'm gonna give you some hints.

Eric
The ivories.

Rachel
They are the ivories. You've got it.

Eric
Man I know my. I know my wildlife trivia.

Rachel
Yeah, especially elk. Yeah. Their teeth, their ivories are. They're very cool. They are like true, very white teeth. Only the tops of their mouths. They're kind of in an unusual place. They're actually ancestral tusks. So over time, as elk have evolved from various other species, they don't have a need for tusks like a mammoth would have had. Instead, they just have these little ivories that remain in the top of their mouth. Yeah, my grandpa harvested an elk, and he took the ivory, and he made it into a little pendant for me to wear. That actually is a little ivory. And then on top of it has a little silver frog for when I was going through my the thick of my frog phase, which is what got me into wildlife conservation, I love frogs.

Eric
Nice.

Rachel
I still have it. My last trivia question for you is how many chambers does an elk stomach have?

Eric
A two? One for meat and one for vegetables.

Rachel
What kind of meat is an elk? Do tell.

Eric
Birds, baby birds.

Rachel
Birds? Well, actually yeah, they do sometimes.

Eric
No. So they have a four chambered stomach.

Rachel
Wow. Oh, you could be an elk biologist. You get all those correct. All right Eric. Well, congratulations. You win the trivia mug. We'll have to get you one of those.

Eric
Wow. 100%.

Rachel
Yeah. You did three for three. You know, you're out. Well done. And for any of you who also like trivia, you want to stick around. Because coming up next, we'll have our mug me trivia question where you can have your chance to win a WildTalk podcast camp mug. Stick around.

Speaker 
Are you looking for first class waterfowl hunting opportunities? Then explore the wetland wonders. The seven premier managed waterfowl hunt areas located in southern Michigan. Daily drawings are conducted locally for free hunting zone permits throughout the season, consisting of over 27,000 acres of managed waterfowl habitat including marsh, flooded crops, and dry land. The wetland wonders are the destination for new and experienced waterfowl alike. Find out more about a high quality outdoor recreational experience at michigan.gov/wetlandwonders.

*Transition Music.

Rachel
Now is your opportunity to win a WildTalk podcast mug, as a thank you to our listeners will be giving away a mug or two every episode. This months mug winners are Rick Tidswell and Logan Kazinsky. Congratulations, Rick and Logan. We'll be getting in touch with you soon to get you your mugs. They answered the question, what are the rough spiky pads on the bottom of the feet of Osprey called, that they use for fishing? The answer was spicules. Another great word, spicules, good for gripping fish.

Eric
It's a very nice word.

Rachel
To be entered into the drawing this month. Test your wildlife knowledge and answer our wildlife quiz question. This month's question is: How many times does the Ruby-throated hummingbird flap its wings per second? So we're looking for flaps per second. 

Eric
FPS.

Rachel
FPS. Email your name and answer to us at DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov. To be entered for a chance to win a mug, be sure to include that subject line as 'Mug Me' and submit your answers by September 15th. We'll announce winners in the answers on next month's podcast, so be sure to listen in to see if you've won. And for the next quiz question. Good luck everyone!

Speaker
Michigan conservation officers are working hard to protect and keep the outdoors safe for current and future generations. If you witness a natural resources violation, you can call or text the Report all Poaching Hotline 24 hours a day at 1-800-292-7800, or fill out the complaint form available at Michigan.gov/RAP. If you would like more information on becoming a conservation officer, click on 'Become a CO' at michigan.gov/conservationofficers.

Rachel
Well, thank you everyone for joining us for another edition of the WildTalk Podcast. We appreciate you spending your time with us. Remember, if you have any questions about wildlife or hunting, you can call (517) 284-9453 or email us at DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov. We will see you back here in October.

Speaker
This has been the WildTalk Podcast, your monthly podcast, airing the first of each month and offering insights into the world of wildlife across the state of Michigan. You can reach the Wildlife Division at (517) 284-9453 or DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov.