Costal plain marshes, the spruce grouse, and the Indiana bat

In this episode of the Wildtalk Podcast, Eric and guest host Fahimeh Baziari start off the show with some background on costal plain marshes. That's followed up with a chat about the spruce grouse, before finally flying into the world of the Indiana bat. 

Episode Hosts: Fahimeh Baziari and Eric Hilliard
Producer/editor: Eric Hilliard

• All things habitat
  • Costal plain marsh
  • Allegan State Game Area
  • Ross costal plain marsh preserve
• All things feathers
  • Spruce grouse
  • Ruffed grouse
  • Sharp-tailed grouse
• All things fur
  • Indiana bat
  • White-nose syndrome

Questions or comments about the show? Contact the DNR Wildlife Division at 517-284-9453 (WILD) or email dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov.

Transcript

Speaker
You know what that sound means. It's time for the Michigan DNR WildTalk podcast. Welcome to the WildTalk podcast where representatives from the DNR Wildlife Division chew the fat and shoot the scat about all things habitat, feathers and fur. With insights, interviews and your questions answered on the air, you'll get a better picture of what's happening in the world of wildlife here in the great state of Michigan.

*Transition music

Fahimeh
Hello. Welcome to the WildTalk podcast. My name is Fahimeh Baziari and I'm your host today. And I'm here with Eric Hilliard, my co-host.

Eric
It's great to have you here in the studio. You're a new voice for our listeners, and you were telling me some really fascinating things before we started recording about how you actually used to be a teacher and your office was in a log cabin. I stopped you because I was like, this is way too interesting for us to just have a conversation one on one without our listeners involved, because I really feel like it's something that they would be interested in. Tell me more about this log cabin office and what you did.

Fahimeh 
So I moved back to Michigan. I moved all around the country, actually. So moving back to Michigan, we moved into southwest Michigan, and I had a forestry degree. And the timber industry isn't so strong in the southwest of Michigan. So I was looking for work in my field. And so I happened across a position at the Kalamazoo Nature Center, and I taught a career and technical class to high school students. The class was conservation biology, and it was an amazing position and an amazing location. It was a house that was donated, I believe. Or or it was through an endowment given to the Kalamazoo Nature Center. And it was a log cabin mansion, and it had a pond and about ten acres that.

Eric
You didn't even tell me that it was a log cabin mansion. I mean, I'm picturing something very grandiose in my head now. I imagine it felt very nice and cozy when you would go to work.

Fahimeh
Oh, it was so cozy. It was the. All the back of the building was all windows. So you just look out into the forest and I would see all kinds of wildlife that would go and hang out in the pond. Like, my favorite memory is mink was coming out and she had three little...

Eric
Mink-lets? Is that what you say? I don't know what kind of kits or—? 

Fahimeh
They were just following her along the pond and it was just amazing. I just kind of happened upon seeing them. It's just interesting because, I mean, I've had a few different roles that brought me to DNR, but I think what allowed me to be a good fit for the role in the DNR and teaching was one of them. And it took me by surprise because it wasn't a teaching like you didn't need a teaching certificate to teach that class, but you still structured it. You had a lesson planning, you worked with counselors and and it was it took me by surprise because I what I was, I was worried because it was teenagers too. So I was like, what is going to happen to me? But when I, I was really surprised by just how curious. And once you engage with young people, they will tell you and like want to share their lives with you. And it it ended up being my favorite part of the job. That I got I got to know students. And you know, they're like in high school, if anybody can remember back, you're going through some really challenging things. And so the class, a lot of the time ended up becoming a place where students could be themselves. And I and I tried to really open that up for people. It was really special and fun.

Eric
Yeah, that's really great. And they got to do it in a log cabin mansion. So I mean.

Fahimeh
Yeah, like the other cool thing about it is they could leave their school. It was an elective, so they got to leave their school and come. And so it was all the Kalamazoo area schools. And so it wasn't with their normal classmates. So they made friends with people.

Eric
They like wouldn't have. Ran into otherwise.

Fahimeh
Yeah. Like the jock made friends with the nerd and the cheerleader made friends with the arts kid. You know, it was a mix of students.

Eric
That's really cool. It's funny because, you know, nature can really bring people together, right? Especially if the students are engaged, like you said. It's a really interesting background. So how did you go from teaching in this log cabin mansion to your current position? And why don't you talk a little bit about that transition and sort of what you do in the southwest now?

Fahimeh
Well, right now I am a wildlife technician out of the Allegan State Game Area, and I just had my three year anniversary.

Eric
Congratulations. Three years awesome.

Fahimeh
It's exciting. I feel more seasoned now. You know, learning the area. And Allegan is the biggest state game area in Michigan. So it's a large area. It's a lot of space to cover. It's a big staff and it's just a beautiful place. And I'll be talking about some of the habitats that you can find there. But actually I would say I would start a little bit further back than that. I actually wanted to be an go into art, really probably do some of the things that you do at the DNR, surprisingly. But my my parents were like, nope, you have to make money? And so I was like, I'm going to go into wildlife management.

Eric
Typical parents, right? Like, oh no, you can't do that.

Fahimeh
Yeah I tricked them because I didn't want to go make money. I wanted to be in the woods or, you know, do something artsy. So I, I went I went to Western for biology and, and chemistry and then I did some I worked around the country working with the Student Conservation Association and did some really fun things. But I feel like my my passion really started when I after I went to Michigan Tech for forestry. But I also wanted to go into the Peace Corps at the and I was.

Eric
Oh, that would be cool.

Fahimeh
Well, I was grappling with like, oh, do I do my master's program or do I go in the Peace Corps? And they actually had a program called Masters International. And so I was able to go to Ghana, West Africa.

Eric
So you did both. 

Fahimeh
Yeah. 

Eric
So two birds, one stone. 

Fahimeh
Yeah. 

Eric
Nice.

Fahimeh
And so I was there. It was a long program. It ended up being three years, but I was able to go international and I studied agroforestry systems. But then when I came back to Michigan, I met my husband and we're both from Michigan, and we were living in Washington at the time practicing forestry for the DNR.

Eric
Did you meet in Washington?

Fahimeh
We met at tech school. And so we both started working out in Washington state for the DNR and their forest division. And it's just too far away from home. And we really missed Michigan. And after—so when we moved back to Michigan, we moved to Southwest Michigan, which the positions and natural resources management are competitive, especially in forestry, the industry you know is more heavy up in northern Michigan. 

Eric
Yeah. 

Fahimeh
And so for me, it was a little bit of a struggle. And so I was looking for work and trying to get my name out there. And I've worked with a lot of different organizations, volunteering and just trying to get to know people. So part of that was at Southwest Michigan Land Conservancy. I volunteered with them, and I also worked at the Kellogg Biological Station and then finally landed a job at the Kalamazoo Nature Center teaching. And that's how I landed there. And yeah, started working as a teacher. And it was I gained some, like teaching you gain a lot of good skills that I think this is what I think set me up for my position in the DNR. Like all these things that I did really set me up for this really cool position.

Eric
So then I'm, I'm assuming you saw a job posting for the technician position. At that point, you put in your application and then, you know, got the job offer and you've been with us for three years now.

Fahimeh
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been great.

Eric
That's really cool. Did you make any connections in that role in the Nature Center with anybody, you know, local DNR biologists or anything leading into that?

Fahimeh
So when I started the KNC the Kalamazoo Nature Center, there was a transition period where I had a bunch of part time or seasonal roles until I had the permanent job. And through that I did Deer Tech Station at Plainwell. And so I got to know our regional manager and our secretary and our current regional manager. And then I also did the MIWF program, which is the seasonal prescribed burn worker, and I did that in Allegan. So I got to know Don Poppe, the biologist, and our fire officer Ben Osterland and people that worked in the area. And yeah, and I got to know the person that was in my role previously, Maria Albright, and she helped me. She talked to me about the role and and it made a connection. And I got to know what the position was like and what I'd be doing through her as well.

Eric
Yeah. And I think, you know, that's a really good that's really good information for individuals that want to work for the DNR, whether it's the Wildlife Division or Fisheries Division or forestry or wherever. It's I think a lot of times people want to go from, you know, just they graduate from college. Well, I've arrived now where's my job at? And a lot of times, particularly here in Michigan, because a lot of the DNR jobs can be competitive, right? A lot of individuals, once they get a job here, they're kind of here for life until they retire. A lot of times because the work is so rewarding, right? Especially when you look at something like, you know, managing a state game area, for example, you get to watch that state game area develop and change and move over decades. And, you know, throughout your career, which is kind of a cool thing when you think about it. Right. And so but because of that, because people enjoy these positions so much, they don't vacate very often, you know, sometimes for promotion or something like that to move into a different position. You know, if you're a technician, maybe you become a biologist somewhere or a supervisor or whatever and that, you know, allows then for an opening. But a lot of times it can be competitive. And the importance of some of those volunteer opportunities and just getting in front of people, them getting to know who you are, your passion for the outdoors, your passion for conservation makes it so much easier when you go in then for an interview. Now, you still have to compete with the other people that are also volunteering, that are getting the same face time and everything else. But man, that puts you head and shoulders above somebody who just graduated with their degree and they kind of walk in like, well, where's my job at now? Not to say that that doesn't happen sometimes. I mean, if if a candidate is, you know, for whatever reason, the right fit for the role, but it's not the common occurrence.

Eric
Most of the people that I, that I talked to, that, you know, wildlife assistance technicians, biologists, etc. all started in volunteer roles doing things like deer check or prescribed burns or things of that nature. So, so for those of you listening out there, if you want to come work for the DNR, really listen to what Fahimeh has to say about the importance of volunteering. So I understand you've got some interesting topics lined up for us today. What do we got for our listeners? What do they have to look forward to?

Fahimeh
So for all things habitat, I wanted to talk about this really cool, well, really cool habitat called coastal plain marshes that you can find at Allegan, a habitat I learned about since working there. And for all things feather Spruce grouse and then for all things fur, I wanted to talk about the Indiana bat.

Eric
Well, great. It sounds like our listeners have got an excellent show lined up, and of course, we'll give everyone a chance to win a WildTalk podcast mug also, right?

Fahimeh
Yeah. Oh, they're so cool.

Eric
Yeah, you've got one dontcha. 

Fahimeh
Yeah, yeah. They're a perfect camp mug. Great. We'll get to that after a word from our warblers.

Speaker
Hey Michigan drivers, a little bird told me your license plate can do more than just tag your car. The wildlife habitat plate featuring the iconic Kirtland's warbler helps protect Michigan's non-game fish and wildlife through the non-game Fish and Wildlife Trust Fund. But hurry, this plate is changing soon. Want to keep the warbler flying? You can even get one as a collector's item, no car required. Support Michigan's wildlife and get your plate before this bird flies away. Visit michigan.gov/SOS.

*Transition music

Fahimeh
I really wanted to share information about coastal plain marshes. Since working at the Allegan State Game Area I've come to learn more and more about this habitat.

Eric
I take it you have a lot of coastal plain marshes there.

Fahimeh
Yeah, a lot of the coastal plain marshes in Michigan are identified and recognized are within the Allegan State Game Area.

Eric
So if you are somebody who is super into coastal marshes, like that's your jam, the place you want to go is Allegan State Game Area.

Fahimeh
Yeah. And there's actually some really great examples of them that you can find throughout Michigan. But one of them in in Allegan and you can see it on the map because it sometimes they're hard to identify otherwise. But Goose Lake is something you can find that on the map. And you can go right there. And so that's a coastal plain marsh to go visit. There's another one, the Hamilton Township Coastal Plain Marsh Nature Sanctuary in Van Buren County, which is managed under the Michigan Nature Association. That's another great coastal plain marsh to visit. The Ross Coastal Plain Marsh Preserve, which is managed by the Nature Conservancy, is also in Van Buren County. So those are some really great examples to go check out.

Eric
What makes a coastal plain marsh a coastal plain marsh exactly?

Fahimeh
Well, this is what I find so fascinating about these marshes is that their story really goes back 14 to 16,000 years ago, when Michigan was covered in glaciers. 

Eric
Okay.

Fahimeh
So during the last major ice age, as those glaciers were retreating, a lot of the sediment were flowing out as these glaciers are melting. And they left deposits of sand and this glacial out wash. And they also left big hunks of ice that formed kettle depressions and essentially like a big hole in the ground where this ice melted all their sediments, filled into that hole, and became a pond or lake. You'll usually find these coastal plain marshes where the water can drain out and then fill back up again.

Eric
So kind of it's more of like a sandy soil than right. That allows that water to drain like it does.

Fahimeh
Yep. Exactly. And so some features like soil features to look at as they are usually within areas that have a large deposit of sand or glacial outwash. Along Michigan, these kettles and glacial melt left a lot of depressions within along the landscape. So that's why even in Michigan, we have a lot of these lakes. And you know, waterways and a lot of water in Michigan is from this all this glacial outwash. And they have a they also have a like a really poorly connected drainage system. So you'll that's why they're isolated. They're usually found throughout the landscape that way. 

Eric
And then when we're talking about like obviously the water drains, like you said, it comes back. How does that affect the wildlife. Like what kind of wildlife enjoys that type of that type of habitat. And really, like, how do you how do you manage a coastal plain marsh or do you manage it or you just kind of let it, you know, go off on its own? 

Fahimeh
So this is where I beyond glacial history. This is also where coastal plain marshes are one of the most unique, rare ecosystems that you can find. And it's a lot of it's really like how the history was, but also the very dynamic, natural process that occurs. So they go through a, a seasonal and yearly wet and dry cycle. So when lake levels are high, that yearly high levels will sometimes keep water in these sites and also through snowmelt and rainfall to these sites, so that seasonal precipitation can also fill in these areas. And so any time you go to a coastal plain marsh, you'll either see it dry or you'll see it wet. And so it so that alone just that this difference in water.

Eric
And then when, when would you typically see it in that dry state versus the wet state, like is certain months of the year or—?

Fahimeh
So, spring and fall when we usually get our highest amount of precipitation. That's that's seasonally when you'll see it, but not every year. So you could you could go there at any given season that could be dry or any given year during the spring of fall, and it could be wet. Or you might see the yearly flood or a yearly filled in basin based off of like a larger landscape hydrology that fills in these areas. So they're so dynamic and so unique that way. 

Eric
So really a lot of it just boils down to the weather for that year.

Fahimeh
Yeah. And like larger like lake levels of Lake Michigan even can impact these. So when Lake Michigan is high you'll probably have a higher water table. And so water doesn't drain as easily out of those areas. If you think about the the history, the glacial history, and then now what you see, the what makes these sites so rare are the especially we talked want to talk about wildlife or species that survive in these areas. What makes these areas so rare are some of the plant species that are there. So if you can picture your mind way back in history as these glaciers are melting, it did, the water systems were connected. There are plants that survive within the coastal plain marshes in Michigan that are only found in areas along the Atlantic coast or the Gulf Coast, which is surprising. Right? How did those plants get to Michigan? And so there's lots of theories of why that occurred as glaciers were melting. And so there are some theories on that. And one of them is this post glacial migration. So as those glaciers were receding, wetlands kind of formed along the pathway. And connecting these plants to Michigan. Another theory is relic populations. So they're remnants of ancient distributions during warmer climatic periods. So again, these systems were connected at some point. Or in the last one is long distance seed dispersal. So wildlife are using like waterfowl and migratory birds are using these coastal plain marshes as stopovers. And they're taking plants from seeds from the Atlantic coast in the Gulf and bringing them into Michigan's coastal plains.

Eric
So they have like a bag where they collect these seeds, and then they bring them over and spread them out. Is that how that works? 

Fahimeh
I mean, they're doing their stewardship that they need to. So what we call those plants are called disjuncts because they're they're so far away from their natural range. But another reason why these this ecosystem persists is not only from the wet dry cycle, but also these are fire dependent ecosystems. So I got to say, they're really my favorite habitat that I get to work in. Because when you walk out, it's one of those places that you have to experience. And you, you, you walk out and in the middle of the field and you can look around the landscape and it makes you kind of connect to your place. It makes you really become present in the space you're in. And that's why it really love going out there.

Eric
Is it one of those things where you go out there and you said it kind of looks like a grasslands at like Goose Lake, for example. And the wind is blowing and you kind of get that swaying back and forth of the grass and that like rustling of, you know, that weird sort of sound that you're out there. 

Fahimeh
Yes! Yeah.

Eric
And so you've got kind of all your probably like some, you know, aroma on the wind of the coastal area just really kind of like honing you in to that point. Do you think like that's kind of is that what you're talking about?

Fahimeh
You nailed it. Yes. It it really makes, you know, your place in this world is part of nature. So I really just love these spaces.

Eric
Oh, maybe I should be buried in a coastal marsh after I die.

Fahimeh
Oh my gosh, yeah. So there's there's beyond the wet and dry cycle. These ecosystems are managed also by fire. They're fire dependent and they they need that in order to help their seeds germinate. So as a fire rips through this grassland, it reduces woody encroachment. So one of the threats to these areas is that if they're not managed by either, that if they don't get enough water and then fire helps keep trees from growing in and essentially turning it back into a forest or turning it into a forest. And so...

Eric
Yeah, because this has been like this for 16,000 years, right? 

Fahimeh
Yeah, exactly. So those systems are so they just work in a perfect structure to create a perfect connection to create this ecosystem and persist for that long.

Eric
And so this is one of those things then really where we've had this thing for like 16,000 years from the glacial period. And because human beings are here now and we tend to stop fires from happening because, you know, all of the reasons why we don't want fires like, you know, protecting property and people, we have to do this, this fire ourselves or this thing that's been around for 16,000 years would disappear by forest is basically what you're saying. 

Fahimeh
Yeah, that's one of the threats is that the natural process is being halted or stopped somehow.

Eric
Interesting.

Fahimeh
And beyond just that, disrupting the natural process, there's other threats to what causes coastal plain marshes to to disappear from the landscape. And what makes them so rare is historically identifying these areas. We they were open spaces, kind of primed for farming, primed for cattle ranching. And so they were often ditched because they were like, oh, this, this area's flooded. But it's perfect for whatever I want to agriculture, I want to use on it. So they would ditch the coastal plain marshes and then so now a lot of them are draining out. So during those high water periods, they don't have that long period of inundation because there's a ditch draining it to somewhere else from past agriculture.

Eric
Yeah, I would imagine that is not a favorable condition then.

Fahimeh
No. And so that's one of the conservation tactics we're taking in Allegan, is to try to fill in some of these ditches to slow the water flow down.

Eric
That's, I think, the first time that I've ever heard, like I've heard people talk about digging ditches. A lot of times you don't usually hear about them being filled in.

Fahimeh
Yeah. So and luckily the tactic we're taking is because there's, because there's so sensitive. The tactic we get to take is not as invasive. It's working outside of the coastal plain marsh and upland areas. And it's just kind of pushing dirt back in. And it's really just a slow it slow the water flow down.

Eric
So I imagine there's at least when there's a lot of water, there's probably a lot of waterfowl that will use these areas?

Fahimeh
So waterfowl do use these areas a lot as stopover locations, especially during high water. They they'll wade in the water and utilize those areas as they're migrating. And and then resident populations will also use them. These areas are also really important for amphibians and reptiles because of the the moist ground during seasonal shifts.

Eric
Do you have a lot of threatened and and endangered species out there or—?

Fahimeh
So. Most of the plant species that you will find out there are threatened and endangered a lot of them or they are under they're imperiled or, you know, have some concern of their population. And mostly because of that, they're of the fact that they're disjuncts from other from the Atlantic and Gulf Coast. So we are really relying on waterfowl and bird species to take to transport those plants for us at this point, and of course, the seasonal and the natural process to keep them persisting. So a lot of plant species, there's also a lot of dragonflies and insects that utilize the nectar. And from these rare plants that you find like Virginia meadow beauty. One reason, right, I wanted to talk about these areas because they are only found along the west coast of Michigan, along Lake Michigan, and it's something that you come to Michigan for that you can see as one of the only states that has something like that.

Eric
I'm surprised they don't see it on more billboards.

Fahimeh
There should be a billboard for our coastal plain marshes and maybe one for Spruce grouse as well, which I'll be talking about next.

Speaker
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*Transition music

Fahimeh
Spruce grouse are a really cool bird species that are native to Michigan. The scientific name is Canachites canadensis and they are a medium sized bird and they live entirely within the boreal zone of Michigan. So that's way up in the U.P. in the northern part of the Lower Peninsula in Michigan.

Eric
So the boreal zone as in aurora borealis.


Fahimeh
I don't know how connected they are, but very distinguished by the type of trees you find there and plants. They mostly are in Canada and up into Alaska. And these boreal areas kind of dip into the US in areas like in Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, there's some parts that dip down in from into Washington and Oregon and then Idaho and Montana. That area of the state. But that's it. And so it's the southern reaches of the boreal forest kind of dip into the United States, where the Spruce grouse live.

Fahimeh
So basically, we don't have a whole lot of Spruce grouse here in Michigan, do we?

Fahimeh
No, it's the southern part of the range. So yeah, it's just in that in the U.P. mostly. But we also just to say we do have three native spruce species and they tend to look very similar, but you can distinguish them apart by knowing where they live. And there are some distinguishing features to them. And I think once you had them side by side, you'd be able to tell them apart. But but you're not going to see them side by side. So spruce grouse, like I said, live in boreal forest and they survive mostly in the conifer and spruce forests. Whereas rough grouse liked like really young Aspen stands, which are throughout Michigan. And that's so they tend to live in the Aspen, young, young growth Aspen. And then there's the sharp tail grouse and you usually find them in open grassland areas and mostly in the U.P..

Eric
I know that Ruffed grouse as a child was my favorite of all game meats. 

Fahimeh
They are the forest chicken.

Eric
Yes, they are.

Fahimeh
So delicious. And you can hunt Ruffed grouse and you can also hunt Sharp-tailed grouse. So some other distinguishing behaviors, especially if you're comparing Ruffed grouse to Spruce grouse is, Spruce grouse are known as a fool's fool hen because they don't move with you approach them. They'll kind of sit there. Whereas Ruffed grouse will do that really expressive flush out of the forest and they scare you. And so that's a large part of their behavior and a strategy to protect themselves from predators. So Spruce grouse really rely on their camouflage to hide where Ruffed grouse escape. Another—so if you're looking at them in the forest and you see them out there, they do have some really cool markings too. Ruffed grouse are known they have that ruffed feathers on their neck.

Eric
That cool mohawk.

Fahimeh
And they have yeah, they have a mohawk. So but that's where they get their name. Ruffed grouse is that those tuft of feathers where Spruce and Sharp-tailed do not have that. So an really eye popping characteristic that Spruce grouse have is they have a red the males have a red eyebrow comb. So it really pops out and they're darker in color as well. So they're more gray and black. But that red really. And then Sharp-tailed grouse I mean they have a pointed tail. 

Eric
they're real sharp.

Fahimeh
Yeah. 

Eric
It'll cut you! 

Fahimeh
Yup. So they want to know what type of grouse you're looking at. And what you're identifying is really by where you're seeing it. And some of the behaviors. And then of course some of those distinguishing patterns on their feathers. Now that we know how to identify them, it's kind of neat to know a little bit about why. And where they're at in Michigan. And what habitat they specialize in. And like I said, like I said, they live in boreal forests, which are mostly made of like Balsam fir, Jack pine, White spruce, Black spruce. And they, like young stands with a lot of dense cover to hide in, as well as some older mature forests where they can forage and have some open ground underneath.

Eric
So what you're saying is you can find Spruce grouse around Spruce trees.

Fahimeh
Yep.

Eric
And it's almost like there's a need like that's maybe where the name came from almost.

Fahimeh
Yeah. They get their names, definitely by these really unique things about them. And not only is it because of their habitat that they live in, they are very specialized to the plants that live there. For example, they in the winter their feed—they only feed on the needles of these conifer trees, which most species cannot. They can't digest them or process them. And so Spruce grouse being able to do that has allowed them to live in this area. So some of the the adaptations that they formed based on their habitat is that in the winter months, their gizzard, which they eat rocks and stuff, it's kind of like a grinding mill that they use to digest food. And so that that grows by about 75% then in the summer months, to be able to really grind this food down.

Eric
Yeah. I mean, just because they can eat that, I don't know that that would be their first choice for for food.

Fahimeh
No, but that's what's available. And that's how they get through those winter months. Their intestines also grow in length by 30 to 40% of their summer time size.

Eric
Wow. And so let me guess, is that adaptation then that growth. Because this hardier food takes longer to digest and get the nutrients, therefore they need, you know, a larger gizzard for the space. And then a longer intestinal tract to really process and extract what little nutrients there are from that into their system. Is that kind of the thought process behind that?

Fahimeh
Yeah, that spends more time digesting and fermenting and breaking down, you know, plants are have really they're really have a really strong structures. So to break that down, the cellulose to be able to digest that kind of works the same as the way deer break down plants and to digest it, their food. So yes, that they need that to that capacity to be able to break down those really strong plant materials. But in the summertime they eat mostly berries and insects and things that they can forage on the ground.

Eric
Which is, I would imagine, even though you can't hunt Spruce grouse here in Michigan, I would imagine they probably taste pretty similar to a Ruffed grouse or a Sharp-tailed grouse.

Fahimeh
They do. Well, in older reports back when you could, you know, hunt Spruce grouse, that was kind of a that was passed down information that they do kind of have a spruce flavor or pine flavor.

Eric
Oh really? Yeah. Oh that's fascinating.

Fahimeh
So not only do they are they able to withstand the winter months by eating conifer needles, they also do a lot of things to be able to conserve their energy during that time. So they as they're in the forest, they kind of sit mostly motionless to not use up all their energy in order to survive that long winter. They also burrow into shallow snow cavities to stay warm, and they kind of just sit in there and wait out the days and emerge when they're ready to eat. But they really just try to sit still so they're not using up all their energy and fat stores during the winter months.

Eric
Ruffed grouse kind of have that same behavior too, don't they? Snow burrowing.

Fahimeh
Yeah they do. They really like the snow cover. And it's really important to as well as for Ruffed grouse habitat. Spruce grouse do have a unique history in Michigan and how they ended up in the areas that they area and there is a past. So back in like the 1800s, 1900s, during the logging era, a lot of their forests were cut over and they lost that thick, dense cover, especially on that. And so most of their habitat was lost from logging.

Eric
Which was the case for a lot of wildlife species. In addition to the Spruce grouse. And I'm guessing that for them it was probably a bit more impactful.

Fahimeh
Yeah, I mean, Michigan was heavily logged as we were trying to build up the state, but right now they can they are state threatened, but they can now are mostly found in Luce, Chippewa and Mackinac counties. And they're of course the so in in their state threatened. But their, their population is holding pretty steady across Canada and Alaska.

Eric
So it's not they're not in any danger of extinction or anything of that nature then?

Fahimeh
No, no, that not especially not in in Canada. And this is, this is something that can happen especially on the southern the most southern are the, the boundaries of their habitat range. Where it starts to blend into another ecosystem. So that sometimes happen, especially with humans expand into these areas. Those areas tend to be a little bit more sensitive to change than in their main core area of their habitat.

Eric
The great wilderness. 

Fahimeh
Yeah. 

Eroc
Of our neighbors to the north.

Fahimeh
Yup. So where the Spruce grouse are roaming around.

Eric
I feel like there could be a song about that, something about Canada and Spruce grouse and maybe some maple syrup or something.

Fahimeh
Yeah, right. But another reason why maybe that their habitat, especially in Michigan, is starting to be reduced is the absence of fire. Things kind of Michigan is so fire adapted, and most a lot of the habitats in Michigan need fire to replenish itself. And so in boreal forests, what happens is as a fire runs through the area, it creates a mosaic of young stands starting to replenish themselves and also mature forest. And this mosaic and dynamic of changing forest happens over time. And Spruce grouse really need both in order to survive. And so if we're not burning, then we're gonna those younger stands are going to become mature forests, and they're not going to have the cover that they need to hide from predators.

Eric
Yeah. It's funny how as human beings, we don't think about how natural fire is on a landscape because it's something we don't normally see and that we try to avoid. And yet you look at, you know, we talked about the we talked about the Great Lakes Act, we, Great Lakes plain, Great Lakes—

Fahimeh
The coastal plain marshes?

Eric
Coastal plain marsh. Yes! Thank you. That's the word I was looking for. You know, you look at we were talking about coastal plain marshes and the importance of fire on there. We're talking about the Spruce grouse and the importance of fire there. You look at Kirkland's warblers and the importance of fire there, and you realize just how important fire is to the survival of some species. 

Fahimeh
Yeah, well, disturbance, you know, we and we also talked about competition, you know, disturbance in a changing environment is so important to replenish. Like it's such a replenishing type of disturbance to allow that turnove. Reduce competition in some ways, create space for other species, it it is really important. And all of our systems need some form of disturbance to replenish itself. And there's other ways to accomplish that. I mean, fire is a really great natural way, but I mean, we we try to mimic that through our timber harvest. And so we can if we're in areas where it's not feasible to put fire on the ground, you know, there's other logistical challenges or this human interface that we don't want to put. We want to be responsible with how we are utilizing that fire as a resource. So in the absence of that, we can do other management techniques like forestry. It can really create that. Once you harvest a stand of trees, then you get that flush of young forests like you would in a fire. However, you know, the challenges that fire, like we said, helps germinate new seeds. And it the all these plants are also adapted to fire. So it's one piece of the puzzle that we still need to do our best to try to work out.

Speaker
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*Transition music

Fahimeh
The Indiana bat scientific name Myotis sodalis is a very small bat, but very ecologically important, especially for the Midwest and the east side of the United States.

Eric
Seems a little weird that the Indiana bats crashing out here in Michigan. But I mean, we are an attractive state and better than Indiana, so I can imagine why they might want to come here.

Fahimeh
Right, I know we're neighbors. Well the Indiana bat the reason that they're called that is because they were first discovered in Indiana.

Eric
Oh, so really it was just a matter of timing. Had somebody discovered them first while they were in Michigan, they could have been the Michigan bat.

Fahimeh
Exactly. We'll just. But they live mainly in the eastern and midwestern parts of the United States. And however their their populations are really concentrated in certain areas within that range. And that is especially true during the times when they're they hibernate in the winter. The Indiana bat is currently listed as federally endangered by the United States and because of their large populations declines that they're facing they are one of the most importantly studied species currently. And they're heavily monitored in the United States for that reason. The Indiana bat is a very small bat. It's about the size of three AA batteries or a box of Tic Tacs, which is about .18 or .39 ounces.

Eric
They probably don't rattle like Tic Tacs when they're flying, though, right?

Fahimeh
No. Or something seriously wrong, I think. Despite their size, though, they are really agile fliers. They're really good at flying. They can fly up to 22mph, which is pretty fast.

Eric
It's pretty quick. Yeah.

Fahimeh
Right. And or when they're foraging looking for insects, they usually fly around 12mph.

Eric
I would imagine they're probably fairly acrobatic as well to swoop in, duck and dive and snag up flying critters.

Fahimeh
Yes. Yep. They yeah they have to.

Eric
You think do you think an Indiana bat kind of thinks of, say, like a large moth is like a jelly donut? Powdered jelly donut. They're like, oh, I got a powder jelly donut compared to something like, you know, a mayfly or something like that, right. 

Fahimeh
Or like a they're they mostly mosquitoes. So I don't know why. Yeah. Mosquitoes barely seems like a meal.

Eric
Yeah. Would you even know? I feel like they would they even know they ate a mosquito? Or is it just like I'm going to fly around and it's either wind hitting me in the mouth or a mosquito, and I'm just going to keep doing this until, you know, my belly feels like it's full. 

Fahimeh
They have a pretty large range of habitat and they are a migratory species of bat in this range is important to them because they either live in forested areas under loose bark, or the hollows of large trees, or entry cavities and crevices. They also hibernate in caves for the winter. And these these areas are important because they provide protection from predators and help keep them warm, especially during the winter during hibernation. They have a really cool annual cycle of migration, hibernation, reproduction, and the seasonal land use where they're flying around and migrating to. So in the winter, bats generally hibernate in caves called a hibernacula.

Eric
Not a hyper Dracula, a hibernacula.

Fahimeh
Well, maybe we won't go that far with the bats, but they mostly choose these sites to stay warm over the winter. So the white nose syndrome is particularly impactful to Indiana bat for the fact that they're social, so social, but also because 72% of them hibernate in caves that are in Missouri, Indiana and Illinois. And so when they're not hibernating, then they kind of spread out to other areas and migrate. In the springtime, Indiana bats migrate to other northern areas and forested areas, and they will travel, sometimes up to a thousand miles to get to these, especially if they're within that whole eastern range of the United States. And they only or most of them hibernate in the caves, but they they'll travel about up to a thousand miles from their winter to their summer habitat sites. 

Fahimeh
And during the summer, females will go out to these sites to create maternity colonies. And that's where they will—that's what they'll birth their pups. In the late summer and fall bats will migrate back to the caves. And they'll they'll be active in this behavior called swarming for mating and to get ready for winter hibernation. Bats are polygamous, which means that males will mate with more than one female and this this mating ritual usually occurs around when they're swarming in October or November, and mates will or males will wait near the cave entrance as females are coming in and for hibernating and kind of wait for their opportunity. But fertilization doesn't happen right at that moment. Their female bats can delay fertilization. And so although and hold sperm over the winter months and they don't actually fertilize.

Eric
That's insane.

Fahimeh
I know, I know right. 

Eric
But but it makes sense though, right? Because you don't want to rear your pups too early to where you know you're giving birth in the middle of winter. It's an incredible adaptive strategy.

Fahimeh
Well, if in an especially what you if you think about their what what happens to their body physiologically during the winter, they need to save up as many resources as they can. So going into the hibernacula and then raising their pups when they're basically stopped all bodily functions.

Eric
Just a gestation period. Yeah. Like all of the like fat reserves and all these other, you know, energy draining processes that pregnancy induces upon a bat or a human or anybody. Right. Like the worst time for something like that to happen is when you're trying to have enough fat stores to get you through the winter and survive yourself. And now suddenly you've got how many pups are typically born?

Fahimeh
1 or 2.

Eric
Yeah. I mean, still two pups.

Fahimeh
Right? And so if you think about what they're actually what's actually happening to them physiologically in while they're hibernating, all you mothers out there can imagine taking care of two little babies. But just to say some of these facts. 

Eric
Every five seconds they're like, mom, is it spring yet? Can we go outside?

Fahimeh
Exactly. But they it's a it's remarkable that there are a mammal species that can do this. They reduce their body temperature from around 98°F to 35 to 50°F.

Eric
I would die, I would be dead.

Fahimeh
It's cold, right? They, since they usually their heartbeat is usually around 300 to 400 beats per minute, but they slow that down to ten beats per minute. They do this in order because they don't, they're hibernating. They don't eat during that time. They stay really still. They're conscious, they're still awake, and they kind of like every little bit they'll move their body, you know, to keep that warmth and they'll kind of wake themselves up, but they're more or less asleep, you could say. So, yeah. It wouldn't be great to have to raise your pups during that time of the year. So pregnancy doesn't really begin until spring, and then they emerge out of the hibernacula. And so, so after fertilization...

Eric
And usually when are they when are they actually giving birth. Isn't it around like June?

Fahimeh
They give they give birth to like 1 or 2 pups per year. And they're gestation at start is about 68 days, which. So their pups are usually born around June or early July. Pups usually become fully independent within 2 to 3 months.

Eric
That's crazy. Imagine if human children were ready to be independent in 2 to 3 months. That would be crazy.

Fahimeh
I know that's pretty quick. Another interesting fact too, about their age and longevity. Yeah, they're these teeny, they're tiny little bats, but they can live a really long time. The longest record or the oldest recording age was 20 years, but probably generally in the wild up to 15 years. But they are currently listed as endangered. And there's there's many factors that are related to the decline that we talked about, especially white nose syndrome. But another one is habitat loss. And that's through, you know, land clearing, you know, tree removal through forestry can you can lose their their sites where they're roosting in the forest. And, and sometimes when they're out rearing their pups because they'll go in those crevices and rear their pups where in the hollows of trees when managing your property for forestry practices, you can, if you manage the your timber between the months of October 1st to March 31st, you reduce the amount of damage you could do to those maternity colonies and roosting sites. Because, like I said, a lot of these bats migrate to the caves in Missouri, Indiana and Illinois during the winter months. And so you'll you'll have less impact on population. So you want to try to target that those dates, if you have a known roosting site. And if your property is near any riparian areas or water, adding a buffer around those spots, not only because you don't want to damage the soil from equipment use, but that riparian area is important for bats because that's where the insects usually kind of they'll a lot of insects emerge out of water and swarm around those areas. So yeah.

Eric
So you just wouldn't want to go through and do a timber cut all the way to the water line.

Fahimeh
Yup, exactly. 

Eric
Yeah. And if you leave a buffer for the bats, that means they can eat more insects and get buffer because...

Fahimeh
Your right. Yeah.

Eric
They've got enough protein intake at that point.

Fahimeh
Yeah, we want to feed them the most healthiest bugs.

Eric
There's my my my one allotted dad joke for the for the episode. I held it off till until the end here. 

Fahimeh
So we're really fortunate I think to have Indiana bat as part of Michigan's suite of species that we get to experience, along with all the other bats. They are so ecologically important.

Speaker
3,300 miles of Great Lakes shoreline. 11,000 inland lakes. 56,000 miles of rivers and streams. Fish? Too many to count. All you need to do is grab your gear, buy your fishing license and get out there. Get your Michigan fishing license in store, in the Michigan DNR Hunt Fish app or online at michigan.gov/dnrlicenses.

Fahimeh
Now is your opportunity to win a WildTalk Podcast mug. As a thank you to our listeners, we're giving away a mug or two every episode. This month's winners are Jim Weston and Keith Kirk. Congratulations to you both. They answered the correct meaning of the word moose, which means twig eater. To be entered into the drawing this month, test your wildlife knowledge and answer our wildlife quiz question. This month's question is; What is the largest group of mammals in the world after rodents? Email your name and answer to us at DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov to be entered for a chance to win a mug. Be sure to include the subject line as 'mug me' and submit your answers to us by April 15th. We'll announce winners and answers on next month's podcast, so be sure to listen in to see if you've won. And for the next quiz question. 

Speaker
Michigan conservation officers are working hard to protect and keep the outdoors safe for current and future generations. If you witness a natural resources violation, you can call or text the Report All Poaching Hotline 24 hours a day at 1-800-292-7800 or fill out the complaint form available at michigan.gov/RAP. If you would like more information on becoming a Conservation Officer, click on 'Become a CO' at michigan.gov/conservationofficers.

Fahimeh
Well, thank you to everyone for joining us again on this April edition of the WildTalk Podcast. Remember, if you have questions about wildlife or hunting, you can call (517) 284-9453 or email us at DNR-wildlife@michigan.gov. We'll see you back here in May.

Speaker
This has been the WildTalk Podcast, your monthly podcast airing the first of each month and offering insights into the world of wildlife across the state of Michigan. You can reach the Wildlife Division at (517) 284-9453 or DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov.