Ice storm, northern shrike and elk in "The Big Wild"

In this episode of the Wildtalk Podcast, Eric and guest host Shelby Adams start off the show with a discussion of the impacts to wildlife habitat from the 2025 ice storm. That's followed up with a chat about the northern shrike, before finally talking about Michigan elk and changes to hunting regulations this year. 

Episode Hosts: Shelby Adams and Eric Hilliard
Producer/editor: Eric Hilliard

• All things habitat
  • 2025 Ice storm recovery
• All things feathers
  • Northern shrike
• All things fur
  • Michigan.gov/Elk

Questions or comments about the show? Contact the DNR Wildlife Division at 517-284-9453 (WILD) or email dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

You know what that sound means. It's time for the Michigan DNR's Wild Talk Podcast. Welcome to the Wild Talk Podcast, where representatives from the DNR's Wildlife Division chew the fat and shoot the scat about all things habitat, feathers, and fur. With insights, interviews, and your questions answered on the air, you'll get a better picture of what's happening in the world of wildlife here in the great state of Michigan.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Wild Talk Podcast. This is your guest host, Shelby Adams, filling in for the lovely and very missed Rachel Lincoln, bringing you the May episode. Here with me today is my co-host, Eric Hilliard.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Shelby, thank you so much for driving down from the northern lower peninsula to be here in the studio in person. Yeah. And really, I think we should probably give our listeners a little bit of a background about you. I don't think we've had you on the show before, have we? So this is like the first time people are getting introduced to you as a biologist. So you want to kind of lay out your history for them?

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Sure. Yeah. So for listeners who might not know me, I'm a wildlife biologist in the northern lower peninsula for the Pigeon River Country State Forest, which we lovingly call the Big Wild. It's over 110,000 acres of state forest in Sheboygan, Otsego, and Montmorency counties. It's just north of Gaylord, and it's home to one of the largest free-ranging elk herds east of the Mississippi.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

So I've been up there a few times, and some of the largest trees I have ever seen in Michigan are up there.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yeah, it's a beautiful place. I mean, if you like forests, I mean, come up. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yeah, and it's really unique too. I mean, as somebody who grew up in northern Michigan, the forest there just feels different than the forests where I grew up. Like it's very, very strange. It almost seems like you're not even in Michigan anymore, depending on where you happen to be.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yeah. I mean, you're you're past that line, right, where the conifers really start to take over and you do end up with a different, a different forest than what you have in southern Michigan for sure. And then the pigeon in particular is managed different than other state forests. So it operates under the concept of management, which is its own unique plan, which is different. So it's sort of this very special place that is, you know, it's managed a little different. It's it's great. It's a really cool, cool spot to be.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

The big wild or the big wild. Yeah, that's why the big wild. That's why they call it the big wild. Yeah. So well, great. Well, what do we have lined up for our listeners today? What have you brought with you?

SPEAKER_02 2:40

We have a great show lined up for you today. We will start first in the habitat world. And if you've been following the news, you know the March 2025 ice storm that hit that area, it really left a mark in northern Michigan forests. And that we'll be dealing with that basically for the next generation to come, definitely my whole career. That next we're going to move on to feathers. I want to introduce you to one of my favorite winter visitors, the Northern Trike, which is honestly one of the most fascinating birds in the state. And finally, we'll get to it's me, of course. So all things elk. We've got brand new population survey data from January of this year, some regulations changes that just came through the Natural Resources Commission, and what it all means for Michigan elk management going forward.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

That's right. And it's elk and bear application period. So don't forget if you're somebody who gets your elk chance or your bear points.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Do it.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Do it. Don't forget. You know, don't forget. We get people every year that will uh write in and they'll say, I missed the application period. You know, you didn't let me know. And you know, we always send out emails and social media posts, and we mention it in the podcasts and these other areas. And sometimes, you know, people still miss it, unfortunately. And it's one of those things where we can't let you retroactively get you gotta do it during that during that period.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

So you just see your official reminder from one of the elk biologists to apply for your elk license, and then you can call me afterwards when you get your license and say, Thanks for the reminder, I got my tag.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Exactly. And if you're driving down the road right now, maybe stop at a rest area or something. Because if you say to yourself, Oh, I'll remember to do that later, there's a good chance you're gonna forget. So don't forget, just do it right now.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Right now. In whatever way is safe, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Exactly. Do it safely. Pull over, out of the lane of traffic, you know, stop at a gas station, whatever you gotta do.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Don't forget.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

That's don't forget, exactly. All right, but first, a word from our warblers. Hey, Michigan drivers, the little bird told me your license plate can do more than just tag your car. The wildlife habitat plate featuring the iconic Kirtlands warbler helps protect Michigan's non-game fish and wildlife through the non-game fish and wildlife trust fund. But hurry, this plate is changing soon. Want to keep the warbler flying? You can even get one as a collector's item, no car required. Support Michigan's Wildlife and get your plate before this bird flies away. Visit Michigan.gov slash SOS. So, first we're gonna start with the ice storm. Tell me about this ice storm. I mean, I know a little bit about the ice storm, but obviously southern Michigan. We had some ice down here, but it wasn't nearly as bad. I remember seeing the videos of just trees bent over covered in ice. The it was nuts. It was almost like something out of a movie.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

It was, it was wild. It was a wild experience to live through. And, you know, I was honestly right in the heart of it. So it it took place March 28th through the through the 31st of 2025. And it it it hit us so hard. I was actually, so I'm live in the Gaylord area, and my husband and I sat out on the covered porch the second night. The first night our the trees around our house hadn't fallen yet and broken. And by the second night, they all had. So anything that could have fallen on the house already had, so we're like, oh, it's safe enough. So we sat out on the covered porch and just listened to the trees break around us. So they were cracking and breaking under the weight of all of this ice. It it was extreme. It was intense. I will never forget it. We sat out a couple nights doing that.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Um how did your how did your house make out through all of that?

SPEAKER_02 6:38

We lucked out. So the way that the trees broke, they really like broke from the crown down. It was the bigger limbs. So we we did have the power line get ripped out and we had a few like sort of scratches on the side of the house, but we l ended up losing all of our trees uh just because they all did, you know, the loss total crown, total crown loss for every every tree. That is a problem. So but as far as the house, the house is okay. Obviously, like long time without power, just like everybody else who kind of lived through it.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

But yeah, it was you have wood heat or anything like that that you were leaving?

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Yeah, so we did wood heat. So we have a fireplace in our house that we used for the first first day or two, and then borrowed a generator, thank you. And that that saved us, right? Like that kept us able to stay. You know, we have small kids, so and it was, you know, it's an ice storm, so it was cold during that whole stretch there. So we were able to stay in the house and we kind of just stuck together as a family, you know, just driving around. The word apocalyptic's been thrown around a little bit. I mean, it was I'll never forget it.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

And imagine being an animal out there, and you don't experience like we know what an ice storm is because we've seen them in different places, but imagine being an animal with just trees snapping in the loudness, and deer and elk must have been freaking out as l as well as a bunch of other kind of animals.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

It's weird because it's like 360 around you, right? Because we're all in the forest up there, and yeah, it was just all around you. Very memorable.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

It looked like an alien planet up there.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah, I mean, to get anywhere, because you'd have to get like fuel for the generator, you would, you know, you'd drive, you'd try to stick together as much as possible. We had to chainsaw our way out of our driveway down our private road, like, you know, it just to get out was was a task. And then you're driving over po downed power lines because all the power lines were just across the roads. And so, you know, all the things that you were never, you know, told never to do, it was just out of it's like, well, we can freeze and not have electricity, or we can go to go and get fuel for our generators. So yeah, but yeah, so from a forestry standpoint, you know, we're all living through this in our personal lives. And then those of us who, you know, work for the DNR in the area, manage the forest in the area, this was kind of a double whammy, right? So your home is affected and your work is is deeply affected as well. So over 900,000 acres of state forest was affected by the storm. So this was not, this was not small. It was big. And it had widespread impacts on like infrastructure, recreation infrastructure in particular. So that's, you know, your state parks, your campgrounds, boating access sites, thousands of miles of trail. The DNR, we've deployed hundreds of staff members, and then they log like tens of thousands of hours in response and recovery, and we're not done, right? Like this Yeah, that work is still ongoing. Yeah. I would say, you know, a year later, most of the developed recreation sites, they're back open, and that was a huge lift to get there. But forest recovery and even the forest evaluation of like where are we now? What's our path forward? We're still at the early stages of that. The road systems are still being cleared in some places, which feels crazy that we're still not open with there yet. Um, and we've got timber salvage, which is happening on the ground as well with some of those sites.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah, is there a lot of so you know, in a traditional timber sale, obviously, we would that whole process is way different than what's going on now. How how exactly is that happening up there with the timber salvage? Is that us doing that work? Do we have contractors coming out? Are we selling that timber to companies? Like what exactly is going on?

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Yeah, so we're setting up the sales, right? So it's it's evaluated by our foresters who are going out there looking at the damage. We have certain, you know, thresholds they're looking at, whether the sites are damaged to the point where resetting them is the best option. Because most of these sites, they you know, we're expecting these to grow for the next for multiple decades. So we're coming into sites way early just because the trees are are growing more.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Kind of like around your house, the top snare that is like, how do you do photosynthesis with the leaves? You don't, you just die.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

There's nothing left in the best decision in a lot of these times is to just restart. So yeah, we, you know, we set up a sale like we how we normally would, the loggers in the area, you know, they're they're getting swamped too with these requests. And then it's not just the state land, right? That's there's all the private land as well. So I mentioned my own home. I had neighbors coming up being like, hey, we're we're talking with loggers about getting the forest harvested in this area, right? So they've got all these private land requests and public land requests. It's it's a lot. It's definitely a different time for the area, both from the DNR perspective and from our logging counterparts. So one of the pieces there that really matters when we're thinking about the forest is really that forest health piece. So we're talking about like why is it important to be managing, you know, these sites that were hit so hard. And our forest health pathologists are really concerned about the long-term picture. So trees with severe crown damage, like you've said multiple times, they've lost their capacity for photosynthesis. You know, these open wounds become entry points for fungi decay. The red pine and jack pine were particularly devastated. But yeah, they we we do have all of these sites. And like I said, the red pine and jack pine, you know, them, they're some of the first ones that we that we've looked at. And from a revenue standpoint, we figured there's a revenue loss of more than$7 million just from red pine alone. So, you know, that's looking at it from that's for forest resources division, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Like, yeah, that's not an insignificant number for sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Yeah, yeah. So we've got about 18,000 acres of salvage right now, and about 16,000 of those have actually been sold. So, you know, it's still, like I said, we're still at this such early stages when you think about how much forest has been affected.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

So Yeah, would you say 900,000 acres?

SPEAKER_02 12:35

900,000 acres of state forest land was affected. And that doesn't mean, excuse me, it doesn't mean that all of that needs to be salvaged, right? Like so we're looking at the sites that are the worst of the worst that really need us to go in. And then these other ones, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

But you still have to evaluate.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Yeah, the evaluation. Our foresters, I mean, hats off to the to the foresters right now. Like their jobs are really, really challenging, really difficult. I mean, even just getting around the woods. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Like, you know, all these crowns have snapped off. It's basically like trying to go through a giant bramble bush almost, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Yeah, that's a that's a good thing to mention to our hunters as well, right? So are who are coming up to hunt in those areas. You know, these forests are not the same to walk through anymore. There's some unique challenges to just just traverse the woods. I mean, it's it's a different place. So one thing that I really wanted to note is that the state legislature really stepped up with all of this going on and they appropriated over$16 million for reforestation efforts. And the DNR is also working with FEMA to secure additional federal disaster funding. So we've got a couple things that are, you know, really going to help us out from the forest perspective. And one of the funds is gonna be to replant, right? So replanting red pine and the majority of these affected sites to ensure, you know, there's a forest for the future. Because as we know, it takes decades to grow a new forest and we'll have at least five years of cleanup work alone. And that's not counting the actual forest regrowth timeline. So it's just like I said, this will be the rest of my career. And honestly, probably the people that come after me will be dealing with the effects of the storm.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Astounding. I don't I don't think that people take into account a lot of times just like how expensive this type of an operation is. Yeah. And while some of the salvage, you know, sales can bring in some revenue, it still is not enough to really like manage everything uh in its entirety.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah. And I mean, this is that's the money piece, right? So the m the money piece and the the logistic piece is one, but I mean, we're we're the wildlife division, right? So so thinking about, you know, what's the habitat story here that we're trying to tell, because you know, we we do forest planning, right? So we're when we're thinking about managing our forests, we're thinking about them as a place for habitat for a variety of wildlife. And one of the things that we've been doing, you know, for places like the Pigeon River country is trying to create and maintain multi-age class forests. So really trying to have areas that have young forests next to, you know, with nice like shrubby cover, with some mid-age forests with a developing canopy and mature forests with larger trees. So what can happen after an event like this is it changes that, right? So it can set everything back to zero altogether. So you do lose potentially some of that diversity in these heaviest hit areas. You know, that's not across the whole range, but yeah, it does happen.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

And that's going to affect the wildlife too. And I'm sitting there like I'm trying to picture myself as an elk. Yeah. As a bull elk with, you know, this massive set of antlers trying to navigate through a forest where literally all the trees have fallen.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Yeah, I mean, it's it's I do think it's changed their movement patterns through the woods. Like we, you know, we talk with hunters and guides, and they've they've even mentioned, you know, that the elk aren't always the same places that they've historically been this last year. So I do think that there's been some movement differences. But there's also gonna be some pros of that as well. Elk love young young forest habitat, right? They thrive in it. So one of the things that'll probably happen is, you know, as this young forest regrows, the elk are gonna do great during that time period. And because there's gonna be so much of it, it actually might be able to grow above browse pressure, because elk love to eat. Uh, and we might end up with having some really nice regeneration for our future forest as well. Another really interesting point that some people focus on too is the potential wildfire risks. So, you know, you've got like, I know, we've got all this like dead and down debris. So for the next five to 10 years, you know, there's there's this question out there, you know, it's gonna burn hotter, it's gonna burn faster, and it complicates firefighting access, right? So I mentioned not all the roads are even open yet. So, you know, we're thinking about these long-term impacts and the short-term impacts. There's just so many facets to, you know, what happened with this ice storm and how it's gonna affect our our work.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

I feel like they need to outfit the fire trucks with some sort of like Mad Max like shields on the front. Have you seen them?

SPEAKER_02 17:09

They have that. Really? Yeah, the DNR and the DNR fire trucks are definitely built, built for the woods. So they've got some pretty heavy front, and our dozers are yeah, yeah, we've got some pretty intense. Come up north, Eric. Come check out our equipment. I'll have to check it out.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

I'll have to check it out.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Shout out to our firefighters. But yeah, so there's, you know, this this ice storm is gonna impact us for years to come, and it's gonna impact our wildlife, right? So that's what I'm one of the pieces that I'm paying attention to is there's gonna be species that benefit from it, and there's gonna be, you know, certain habitat types that aren't gonna be as present on the landscape for a while. So, you know, we're we're accounting for that in our management plans moving forward, and it's something that we're definitely thinking about. But in essence, you know, we're making sure that our forests are diverse and resilient going forward from these events and that our recovery planning is as science-driven as it can be with all the information that we're gathering. And that's right now what we're focusing on.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

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SPEAKER_02 18:55

All right, I'm so excited to talk to you about Northern Shrikes today. So they are one of my absolute favorite birds. And every winter when they might start showing up, I get really excited about the potential of seeing them to give a little background. So they are a songbird.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

I don't picture songbird when I hear the name. Northern Shrike. Like I've I almost picture like this large raptor of some sort. You know, you're closer than you think.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

You know, they they have that vibe to them, is what I'll call it. So, you know, they are in the group of like robins and sparrows in your backyard birds, but they live the life of a predator.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Remember the old Looney Tunes cartoons of I'm a chicken hawk and you're a chicken.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Yeah, I I had not thought of that for many years, but yes, you're talking about. That's funny. But yeah, so this is this is a song bird that hunts and kills other birds, small mammals, like voles and mice, and even really large insects. And it's one of the most unique birds in Michigan. And it's like I said before, it's only here in the winter.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Why the why the winter? That seems like an odd Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

So this is their like this is where they come to be warm. So they're they're a boreal like tundra bird. So they're up in Canada, Alaska is like their breeding grounds. And so when food is scarce for them in the wintertime, they come down south to Michigan to where there is an abundance of food. Food in the winter. Like I said, they're they're bad. Some animals are, right? Like some animals, you learn about them, and it's like the more that you learn about this bird, the more obsessed you become with it. Like it is very, very cool. So they're about the size of a robin. So just so for those of you who might be interested now in seeing one, so they're gray on top, they're pale below, and they have like bold black wings and a black-edged tail in white. And then the coolest thing is they have this like striking black mask that goes across their face that gives it kind of like this highway robber look.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

You know, like just picture it. It's a cool bird. It's just a really cool bird. And they'll they love to perch on, you know, fence posts or top of a lone tree where they can overlook their hunting grounds, right? So they're they're this tiny robin-sized bird perched looking out, looking for like mice running across their path.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

I was just gonna ask, like, what are these things attacking? Yeah. Like a mouse seems like, do they just pick it up with their claws, or do they just drill into the into the animal with their beak? Like, what are they doing?

SPEAKER_02 21:27

I love that you asked this because, like I said, the more you find out, the cooler they get. So they've evolved something called a tominal tooth. So it's a tooth-like notch on either side of their hooked bill. So they have like a hooked bill, even though, like I said, this is a song bird, and it uses it to deliver like a bite on the back of the neck of its prey, and it severs the spinal cord. Like it's efficient. Wow. And it's really remarkable for a bird that is not a raptor.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

So they're very ethical, right? Like that's one of the ethical ways, it's one of the ethical ways. Of acceptable euthanization of an animal shape.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Sure. Yeah. But then when you think about it, you know, you would mention, I think you would even use the word talons, but like this is a songbird, right? So it's an engineering challenge because their feet are built for perching. They are not talons. So unlike like hawks or owls, they don't have these like powerful talons to hold and move prey and hold it while it eats anything like that. So it uses its environment. So it impales its prey on thorns, sharp branches, or like barbed wire fences. I've seen that before. So it uses the landscape like a butcher's hook to anchor the food while it feeds.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Interesting. So it just doesn't eat it on the ground because it doesn't want to become prey either. So it's like, oh, I gotta go get some cover where I can hang this up.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

They hang it. Yeah. Because they can't hold on to it, right? They don't have talent.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

They're just metal.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

So, yeah. And it'll come back to those like stashed food sources during lean hunting periods. So you might be out on like a winter's hike and notice, you know, walking along like a fence row, a vole or a mouse or something like stabbed onto a barbed wire. And you might go, What? That is a really weird thing to see. And now you'll know why. Look for look for a northern shrike nearby.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah. I'm gonna have to start walking along some barbed wire fences in the wintertime now just to see if I can find any weird things hanging on there. It's very, it's very Vlad the Impaler kind of.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

This bird, man, the more you learn about it, the more you like become obsessed.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

They are very that is just an insane set of behavior for songbirds. My mind is really blown. So what does their song sound like? Is it like I'm gonna kill you?

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Yeah, maybe you'll have to put maybe you'll have to put in the in the notes as well, you know, some some clips to them singing too. But but yeah, you know, they they I have heard that one of their hunting strategies, you know, you'd mention their song, that they'll mimic a bird in like distress too, to like lure other ones in. So they've actually earned the nickname of butcher bird. And in Michigan, it has specifically it has the old folk name of like the winter butcher bird. And it just feels very fitting. So I talked before about how, you know, these northern shrikes that I'm talking specifically about, they do breed far to the north. So that's boreal forest and tundra edge of, you know, Canada and Alaska is where they're at. And this being their winter migration zone, you can see them from roughly November through to March. So I'm I'm giving you lots of heads up to make a plan to look for shrikes in the winter, because I know this is a the May episode here, but I just couldn't resist talking about a winter bird.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Yeah, I mean, you can't you can't pass it up.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Yeah, but yeah, their numbers do vary from year to year as well. So some winters, Michigan might see more than others, and it's really based on that prey availability in their northern breeding grounds. So if they do have lower food available, we're more likely to see more of them down here in Michigan in the winter. So every winter, you know, if you're a birder, I would say every winter is a new opportunity to find one if you haven't yet. So there's another strike too. So Shrike two? Strike two, yes. So I couldn't, I couldn't resist, you know, all shri all shrikes are fantastic. So, you know, I talked about our northern strike and it being our winter visitor, but we do have a really rare potential sighting of loggerhead strikes as well. So very different situation.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

So they're a what you got here is your basic loggerhead shrike.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Yeah. They're a state endangered species in Michigan, so they're considered really, really rare. And you'd be more likely to see them this time of year, like more in the summer. So they they did have more historic breeding population in Michigan in like the 60s and 70s, and it really went down from there. And right now we we might only get like a couple breeding pairs a year in Michigan or nesting pairs.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Is it just habitat loss or yeah, I mean habitat loss, there was the sort of the pesticide era that affected a lot of birds. Yeah. So there's they they didn't recover as well from from the DDT. Yeah, from some of those changes there. So yeah, they before that era there was more of them in Michigan and now, yeah, now we just get a couple, but looking at them, so if you see a shrike in Michigan, you know, if it's the wintertime, you can feel, you know, pretty confident that you're seeing a northern shrike. But if you see one, you know, different time of year, the loggerhead is slightly smaller and it has a thicker, more prominent black mass. So they both have that like black mask, but for the loggerhead, it does go across the top of the bill. So there are some, you know, if you do see one, there's some visible differences that you could look at the bird and know the difference too. So these two birds, they share a name and a look, but you know, think of one as a welcome winter visitor and the other as a state endangered bird that most Michigan birders will probably never see in their lifetime.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

But if they do, they would be incredibly excited.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

If you see one, I would definitely, if you're a the type of birder who records things and puts it on, you know, doises or apps, I mean other birders. E burrs, e bur, any of the yeah, pick your favorite. Yeah. So that would be one worth noting. You know, I just think they're you they're just a bird that deserves more appreciation. I don't hear a lot of people talk about shrikes. You know, they're pretty independent, but they're pretty cool. But next time that, you know, you're out on a winter drive through a field or maybe like a rural road and you see a gray bird, you know, perched on the top of something with a masked face, then slow down and take a look because you might be watching one of Michigan's most fascinating predators at work.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

3,300 miles of Great Lake Shoreline, 11,000 inland lakes, 56,000 miles of rivers and streams. Fish? Too many to count. All you need to do is grab your gear, buy your fishing license, and get out there. Get your Michigan fishing license in store in the Michigan DNR Hunt Fish app or online at Michigan.gov slash DNR licenses.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Try to catch me all in that tomb.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Have the pure Michigan Hunt winners called you at all yet?

SPEAKER_02 28:44

I've gotten one Pure Michigan Hunt.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

I've given a couple, I've given your number to a couple people.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

I'm playing phone tag with one right now, and actually that's a good nudge because it's I'm it, so I just call them back. So thanks, Eric, for the nudge there. Yeah, I was. Maybe on my drive back, I'll give them a call.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

They were like, oh, how can I, you know, know, you know, do you have any tips for me? I'm like, you know who you need to talk to? Yeah. You need to talk to Shelby Adams.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

It's a good, it's a good number to call. But yeah, we've left messages uh back and forth now. So but yeah, looking forward to meeting all my elk hunters this year. So again, a reminder if you'd forgotten from this top of this segment, that this is the time to apply for your elk license.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Yeah, and bear too. And bear too. You're right. You know, the bears. Yeah, and this is a funny thing too that's also worth mentioning. You know, our pure Michigan hunt winners are also still applying for their for their elk tags. Yeah, because and we've had this happen one other time.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

I was there.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Yeah. We had someone who was drawn for their pure Michigan hunt tag, and they were a winner. And then they also got drawn for their bull elk tag. So they had two elk tags. Now they could have been somebody to harvest two bull elks in a single year, legally for the first time in the history, like ever. But he didn't do that. But he didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

That was cool.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah, he transferred his pure Michigan hunt tag to his son because you're allowed to do that with pure Michigan.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

And so, and then the both of them went out and had a father-son elk hunt, and both of them got bull elk, and that is such a cool story. You were there when it happened.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Well, not when they yeah, I was there at the check station. So I remember that well. That was a really cool one. Yeah, that was a really cool one. And he got a bull tag and she got a cow tag. It was all very cute.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Yep. So we've had a few, you know, there's a few really memorable ones for me. You know, you get do get to know these hunters, you know, they're coming up from all over the state and really having this once-in-a-lifetime experience hunting elk in Michigan. And fortunately, I've been able to meet a lot of them along the way. And yeah, it's been a fun time working on the elk hunt.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yeah. Well, elk are a unique animal.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Yes. Yeah. And so special for Michigan. You know, they're they're really unique in that, you know, they're the fact that we even have them here at all. So they were completely extirpated from the state, so completely gone by the late 1800s. And they were reintroduced in 1918. And then today, because of that initial effort, we have one of the largest free-ranging elk herds east of the Mississippi. This year, we just wrapped up our 2026 elk survey. So I'm excited to share some of the numbers for that because they're a really good idea.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

What did the elk have to say?

SPEAKER_02 31:32

What did they oh in the survey? Yeah. When they fill when they filled out the form, you know, that's the man. I wish we could just send it to them. But then, you know, you still don't get a hundred percent response rate when you have someone that can fill out a piece of paper. So yeah, unfortunately, you know, they're a little bit harder to track down. They don't have addresses. So we do an single engine fixed wing aerial survey is how how we counter elk. So we're flying above them at pretty low levels.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Fixed wing.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Fixed wings. So like a Cessna.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Okay. Yeah. A plane. We're talking about a plane. So it's not just like somebody on a glider that's, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

I mean, not me. Definitely not. But but yes. So we use a small, small plane and we fly, we fly over the entire elk range. It ends up being over 4,000 miles of flight. Um, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Is any of that transitioning over to drones?

SPEAKER_02 32:24

So I'll get into a couple of the different methods that we're looking at for the future, but we really haven't drones you end up with an issue following all the regulations for like having to be within sight. So drones tend to I hear that that's gonna be changing. Oh, okay. Well, maybe the future. But we've got enough different methods of potential population estimates we're gonna be looking at here. So drones is one of the few things not on that list right now. So interesting. Um, but yeah, this year the survey was conducted from so it's in the month of January because we really need good snow cover. So that's why January tends to be, and it went from the fourth through the 25th.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

And probably you don't want leaves on trees either.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Yes. So you want the leaves off the trees, you want good snow cover on the ground. And, you know, you're still going to end up with some weather challenges. So that is that is one of the things that happened to us this year. We did have some poor visibility days, you know, especially low cloud can make things really challenging, right? So, like I said, you're flying flying low to the ground. Really, we we don't fly those days. So that meant there were days where we had several no flight days in between. But when we did get in the air, we were pretty lucky this year. The snow was abundant and fresh across the entire elk range. So that does give us some pretty good visibility for spotting animals. But on the other side of things, towards the end of the survey, it got pretty cold and with some pretty intense winds. And so what can happen with elk when it's really cold and windy, it can actually push them into the conifers. So that you're really dense trees. But yeah, when they when they tuck under for that, we would call it thermal cover to stay warm, it that can be challenging. And so when you're doing the flight, you'll you'll make note of that. It's part of the survey protocol. So when you see animals that are close to some of this that tucked into this conifer cover, you'll make note of it. And then that all goes into the factor for your population estimate. For the 2026 population estimate, so the the number that we had was 733 with a confidence interval of plus or minus 246. So if you think about those numbers, you know, that's the population is somewhere between 487 animals and 979, you know, with 95% confidence. It's it's somewhere in there. So that's that's just how our surveys work. Like you made the joke earlier about, you know, mailing in uh how to surveil, you know, they they don't line up for us to count them, right? So we do have to develop these different strategies to try to get as accurate of a number as possible, but we also want to be really honest about the number and not just take that midpoint and say, this is the population, because it's likely not that number, right? It's somewhere between that range. Yeah. And that's where we feel confident. For those of you who might be following the elk population, I know there are some people who are really interested in these numbers. Our 2024 survey, we did have a midpoint estimate of a 1,146. So that had a confidence interval of 262. While our point estimate does show a noticeable decrease, the confidence intervals do show an overlap. So between those two, you know, the 2026 survey and the 2024. So we can't say that there was a statistically significant decrease in elk abundance using those two surveys. The estimated range is also really closely aligned with the elk management plan goal of 500 to 900 animals. So we have chosen to err on the side of caution and we have recommended some changes to reduce our elk's license quotas relative to this point, but it is not something that we're particularly concerned about.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

And would you say that is it possible that the population didn't necessarily decrease, but just because of the ice storm and whatever else, they kind of moved around to places you don't normally survey, or is that not?

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Yeah, it's more the factors of the actual survey itself. So the cold temperatures and high winds late in the survey, you know, they really can push the elk into those really high cover areas where they're harder to count. So the you do end up with some challenges. And then the other piece I'd mentioned that the survey ran from the fourth to the 25th. So you could have a group of animals that was in one location early on in the survey, and then they move before you survey them, right? So when you've when you had like a lot of days in between, you know, animals can move. So that is, again, the other reason why we do have these broad confidence intervals and we give a range at the end because that's where we feel confident, you know, that the population is somewhere within those bounds, likely not in the dead center, even though a lot of times the dead center is the number that gets reported.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, what what news reporter wants to have things like confidence intervals and people have already to turned this off.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Yeah, let's be clear. As soon as I said statistics, they they it clicked.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Thank you to all the wildlife nerds who are still with us as we discussed.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Our four listeners who've remained with us up until this point, they want me to talk about the butcher birds again.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Yeah, like go back to those birds that used to that that hang other animals on hooks.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Yeah, yeah. I mean, just so much more exciting than confidence intervals. But for those of you still listening, I appreciate it. And for those science nerds out there like myself, you know, maybe there, maybe there are a couple people interested in how how we look at our populations, because for me, that is such an important piece of our management. So for those people who are interested in elk, interested in the elk hunt, you know, from that standpoint, you know, where do our numbers come from? And really understanding then how we make those decisions, that's part of that process. So the 2026, that aerial survey, that's really one tool that we have. And I teased a little bit earlier that we're actually looking at a couple other tools right now to estimate elk abundance. We're actually doing some different research projects that are in progress. We just began a camera-based population study with Michigan State with their co-op unit. And that's going to be going on for three years. We started it in the summer of 2025, deploying hundreds of cameras across the a systematic grid across elk range. So we actually used some old, we had some collared elk in, I think it was like 2018, that study ran that showed general home size of elk. So using that information, we developed a grid system across the entire elk range and used that to set up set up cameras. And so that's going to be basically a different approach to looking at populations. Some methods of doing it. One is more sensitive to movement behavior of the animals, and one method is more sensitive to habitat differences and the camera placement. So there's a couple different models. And again, those of you who are still hanging in with there with me, I appreciate it. But model models are challenging, right? So we we try to collect as much data as we have, but nothing ever gives us the exact number. So this is one method that we're doing to look at it. One of my favorite sayings is actually, you know, all models are wrong, but some are useful. So this is this is a good, this is a good way to think about it, right? Like we know that we're not getting exact numbers for things, but it can give us really useful information.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

And one of the methods that we're looking at right now is So close, so close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and and scientific models.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Models. Yeah. They feel like models is really a missed example for that, for that saying. How many sayings can we say back to back, Eric? It's now our new challenge.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Man.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

I think we're good. Oh, I put you on the spot.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Well, I don't have another one in my pocket at this at this point, but yeah, we'll see what happens. If something jumps out at me, I'm gonna I'm gonna skip that up.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

You're gonna throw it in. Now, this is the for this segment, we're gonna try to add as many as we can. So that's so that's two different methods right now. So we've got our our aerial survey that we've been doing for a really long time. We've got some camera-based, and I am talking trail cameras, right? So this is setting out trail cameras in the summertime, leaving them out till the fall, you know, getting as many pictures as we can. And then, you know, like I said, those models are evaluating those photos. And then there's a third survey design. This is aerial infrared. So we're in the air again. This can also be described as a thermal survey. So these are done at night. So when you think about the other survey I talked about, this is us looking for elk, you know, with visual observers, the thermal infrared is actually looking at thermal detection or heat detection of the animals, and it's done at night. We ran them for the first time this winter. So it wasn't in January, it was in February that those ones, and we're still working through the data. So, like I said, we've kind of had a lot of these preliminary new research methods right now looking at how to evaluate the elk population.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

I feel like that one would be good because you wouldn't necessarily know, obviously, you don't have to number one go in circles, right? You're probably still do. Really?

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yes, because they if you think about it, they could still be tucked underneath a conifer tree or something. Like, so you really need to get multiple angles in the groups. Is that you still see them? I mean, but if you think, I mean, the reason why they tuck under the conifer trees is for that thermal regulation, that like warmth. So it blocks, it could block the sight of them depending on the angle. Finally, we have our population reconstruction models. For that model, we need age data using tooth collection from our harvested elk. So this is where our hunters are really our partners here. When they come into the check station, we'll take one of the teeth and we'll use the hunter effort and success rates to build an age-structured population model. So once it's built, this one is relatively low field effort, you know, lower expense, you know, all of these different models we're trying to figure out what makes the most sense. And it doesn't have to be just one as the answer, right? We could use this information along with the infrared or the aerial survey or the camera survey to build the highest level of confidence for our population.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

Yeah, kind of like having them all work in tandem versus just taking like, oh yeah, no, this is the answer.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Yes, yeah. So they they really can work work together in that way. And one of the reasons you might say, like, why, why all this effort? So elk are the only species in Michigan with a really strict population goal, like with actual numbers. So I had mentioned in the elk management plan, our goal is to have between 500 and 900 animals. That's a really challenging thing to do, is to both feel confident about your population size and to manage them within that window. So that's one of the reasons why this species, we have so many different methods and really trying to build a high level of confidence in our understanding of the population. So the broader goal of all this work is really to find the best abundance model moving forward. So the different survey methods can have different strengths and limitations. So, for example, the elk survey can be fast and cover a huge area, but it's really expensive. And it depends on, you know, your weather and observer experience where the camera mark recapture, you know, we can throw out a bunch of cameras relatively easily, but we still don't know how well it's going to operate as far as accuracy. So we want to make sure that, you know, in the end, we have numbers that are driving our management decisions that are as solid as possible.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

And all of this, obviously, whether it's a cheaper method of surveying or a more expensive method of surveying, still takes money to do.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And we were lucky, you know, with some of this with our infrared one, for example, Dallas Safari Club. Gave us grant or gift funding. So we have had some really incredible partners that are, you know, invested in our research here and the accuracy of our of our population numbers. So, but yeah, everything's everything toss money. Everything's expensive. But yeah, so really what we're expecting is to have the final results from, you know, I mentioned all these survey methods. It should be around 2028 that we get those those numbers. And we're not going to be using them to guide management decisions until we get some um really high confidence, other than the obviously the Aero Flight one is one we've been doing for a while. So we're we are using that. And then the other thing that I wanted to talk about is some changes. Nothing too crazy, but they're they're significant enough to mention. The Natural Resource Commission just approved some in the last, the last meeting for the elk hunting framework. So two of the main changes involve hunt dates and tag numbers. So the hunt dates have been adjusted. This is something we look at when we want to refine when you know hunting pressure occurs during the season, which can affect how elk behave, where they are, hunter satisfaction, and ultimately the harvest. We're continuing with two hunt periods, which is what we've had in the past, but the structure is more continuous, especially for the first, for the hunt one, as far as season dates. So the first hunt runs from late September to early October, and it's gonna be a continuous 12-day window. This year it's gonna be September 23rd through October 4th that will move around a little bit from year to year.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

And that was previously and started in August, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Yeah. So it used to be three four-day hunts, but it was all the same hunter. So you kind of had these like blocks. So you had three blocks of four days, and where now it's gonna be one continuous block.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

And I if I'm a hunter, I'm super glad that that first hunt is at least mid-September now because doing something in a positive.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Yeah, the heat. There were some years, like I said, I've been doing this for over a decade now, right? Like there were some years that you know, we had some 90 degree days, and you know, we would do our best to help get the get the hunters checked as quickly as possible and so they could get the meat cooled. But that's challenging. And we did have some hunters who, you know, chose not to hunt the first four days, right? Because they didn't want to hunt in that in that weather. So but it had a it had a point purpose, right? Like so at that time we were we were getting some agriculture complaints and issues, and so it was a way for hunters to be able to hunt animals that were causing those nuisance issues at that time, because once you get a little bit later on, the you know, the animals have completely moved, and so they're not in this in the same areas. So what basically we've changed to this to this 12-day window, like I said, September 23rd through October 4th this year. So that's a pretty exciting change. And then the second hunt is gonna take place. So this one was always in December, and just the dates of that are changing as well. So it's gonna be December 1st through the 15th. That's gonna be a little bit longer than it was in the past. It used to be a nine-day hunt, and so now it'll be the 15th. Nice. Yeah. So little, little change there, but you know, we've talked to quite a few hunters. We had some public meetings, and there was a lot of support for it, particularly from the from the hunting side of things. So I think I think our hunters this year will be pretty excited about having that continuous block of time. So the other piece is the tag numbers have changed a little bit. So in terms of licenses, there's going to be 200 total elk tags this year. That is a decrease of 60 tags compared to the past five years. So they had bumped up to 260 in in 2020 and we're just bringing them back down. And those are split evenly between the two hunt periods. So what's changed slightly is the balance between any elk and antlerless licenses. So when when I say any elk licenses, that's your bull license, right? So people want to say, like, well, which one's the bull tag? So if you get an any elk license, you can harvest either a bull or a cow. So that's why it's phrased that way.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

But most people have any elk license. We had just called that the bull cow license. The bull cow.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

I we've we've tried to make it clear. We've tried so many different ways to explain it, and we've landed at any elk.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

But that's that's what's in any elk. What's in any elk? It means you can harvest a bull or a cow with that license. Where your antlerless license is cow only. So for the early hunt, there are more any elk opportunities. So again, your bull tags. And in the December hunt, there's a heavier focus on antlerless harvest, which is intentional. It helps us better manage the population, growth, their range, and the herd structure. So the number of tags issued is, if you think about it, one of the primary ways or one of the primary levers that managers can use for population. So when we did have this last survey, which looked to be potentially a little bit lower, we did decrease, um decrease the tags back to the numbers that we had at before. We had increased the tags, like I mentioned in 2020 with that goal in mind. We were hoping to, a lot of our surveys had showed the population above that goal number from the from the elk management plan. So what we were trying to do was to sort of slowly land the population back within that goal range. And it looks like, you know, we're right around that target right now, which is pretty exciting. If you actually did the math, your odds probably haven't changed that much, right? Like it really is winning the lottery in the first place, you know, for the elk hunters who come in. You know, they they know what a unique experience that is to even be drawn and that's why collective that's why you want to get your chance every single year.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

And while we'll mention it right now, now is the time to apply for your elk chance.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

How many times, Eric?

SPEAKER_00 49:40

This is I think this is the third third time.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Third reminder.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

So make sure that you you apply for your for your elk chance. And even if you have no intention of hunting for elk this year, you can get your chance only.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

I was about to say you got to be careful with your language there, Eric, because saying chance. Yeah. Yeah, chance only. Are you gonna go into the details of what chance only is?

SPEAKER_00 50:01

So your chance only just means that you want to add to the number of times that your quote unquote hat is in the ring for future draws. So you wouldn't be drawing this year for an elk because you're saying, no, I just want a chance to apply that for the future. Yeah. So let's say you've got four elk chances right now because you've been buying your elk tag for four years, and you're like, Well, I I know I can't hunt elk this year because I'm going on 90-day around the world cruise, for example. I don't know. Lucky you.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

Yeah, whatever, whatever your whatever your whatever reason why it's not the right year for elk hunting, you can do you can still buy your chance only.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

Exactly. So so you've got your previous four, and then you buy your fifth this year. And then next year, when you can hunt elk again and you apply, then you'll have six chances because you will have the four that you had initially, your chance only from last year, and then your sixth from this year, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Yeah. If you remember to, you know, buy your license or your potential chance, you do increase your odds from year to year, but there's no guarantee. There is no guarantee. But yeah, there's just a couple other more minor things. Um, so harvest reporting is now required the same day the animal's taken, and that's done through an online reporting system. So basically something they can do on their phone, similar to what we do for deer, a slight just a slightly different um different system for it.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

And that's rather than sending somebody out into the field to find the person, right?

SPEAKER_02 51:35

Well, so that's that's for the day of, yep. So that's for them to basically um because you used to dispatch people out there, right? Yeah, I yeah, I checked a lot of elk like in the sealed on site and they couldn't leave until we came and sealed it. Um, but the replacement for that is more the so they need to do the harvest report on their phone within 24, not even within 24 hours, the same day of harvest. So that that night basically, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

And then they also do need to bring their elk to a check station within 72 hours. So they have more time. It used to be just a 24 hour to bring it to a check station, where now they have more time to bring it to a check station, they just need to bring the head, or before they'd have to bring the whole animal. So if they want to take care of the meat beforehand, for example, and then just bring the head to the check station, they can do that.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

So I think if I'm that hunter, especially during that early hunt, I'm getting that thing loaded up and probably going and getting a bunch of ice to like stuff in the chest or something and getting it all done at once.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

Especially back with our old dates, we had a lot of ice, a lot of cooler systems going. So yeah, what I always told hunters is have a plan, right? And I think that's still great advice, right? So there are so many people, and like I said, I used to do all these checks out in the field. So I would walk up in these locations with these hunters who just harvested their elk. And, you know, I'd I'm asking the regular DNR question, seal the animal, go off of my way. And then you could just tell there were some of them that were almost in shock of the size of this animal and the work that still needed to be done because it's it's massive. When you walk up on a on an elk as a hunter, you you realize you have a lot, a lot to do.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

And that's kind of like they say, you know, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

Is that the punch then? Yeah. Yeah. When you walk up and you go, whoa.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

And there's another saying. There's saying that we're two.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

We got it. We got it. We're doing good. But yeah, so it's pretty exciting. I'm I'm always looking forward to elk season. It's one of my favorite times of year. And just getting to talk with the hunters beforehand and seeing them after they've been successful is is pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

It's the most wonderful time. For the December hunt of the year.

SPEAKER_02 53:46

We sing that all the time. Yes. Yeah, there's definitely some little holiday magic going on for the December hunt.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Of course. Why would there not be?

SPEAKER_02 53:56

Yeah. Of course. Um, so really that's what it all comes down to. We've got, you know, good data that we're using to make thoughtful management decisions. And the changes might seem pretty small, but they can help us better align the hunt structure with what we're seeing on the ground and what we're trying to achieve long term. And as a biologist, it's really gratifying to see that process work the way it's designed to.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Yep. And that's so that we can keep elk in Michigan and they don't disappear again. And in a second, our listeners are going to have a chance to win a Wild Talk podcast camp mug, aren't they, with a little bit of elk trivia, yeah?

SPEAKER_02 54:29

They are.

SPEAKER_00 54:30

There are many camping and lodging opportunities available in Michigan's state parks. When you choose state park campgrounds, you get more than just a campsite. State parks offer a diverse range of recreational opportunities, including hands-on instructional classes, nature programs, places to fish, boat launches, family-friendly events, and much more. Reservations can be made six months in advance, so why wait? Visit MIDNRreservations.com or call 1-800-44 Parks to make a reservation.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

Now is your opportunity to win a Wild Talk Podcast mug. As a thank you to our listeners, we'll be giving away a mug or two every episode. Our April mug winners are Matt McEmond and John Scott. Check your email as we'll be getting in touch with you soon. They answered the question: What is the largest group of mammals in the world after rodents?

SPEAKER_00 55:34

And the answer is bats.

SPEAKER_02 55:39

To be entered into the drawing this month, test your wildlife knowledge and answer our wildlife quiz question. This month's question, Michigan's elk were extirpated in the late 1800s and reintroduced in 1918. How many elk were used in the that original reintroduction? And what national park did they come from? Email your name and answer to us at DNR-wildlife at Michigan.gov to be entered for a chance to win a mug. Be sure to include the subject line as mug me and submit your answers by May 15th. We'll announce winners and the answer on next month's podcast, so be sure to listen in to see if you've won and for the next quiz question. Good luck, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Michigan conservation officers are working hard to protect and keep the outdoors safe for current and future generations. If you witness a natural resources violation, you can call or text the Report All Poaching Hotline 24 hours a day at 1-800-292-7800. Or fill out the complaint form available at Michigan.gov slash wrap. If you would like more information on becoming a conservation officer, click on become a CO at Michigan.gov slash conservation officers.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

Thanks for joining us on this May edition of the Wild Talk Podcast. Remember, if you have questions about wildlife or hunting, you can call 517-284-9453 or email DNR-wildlife at Michigan.gov.

SPEAKER_00 57:10

We'll see you back here in June. This has been the Wild Talk Podcast, your monthly podcast airing the first of each month and offering insights into the world of wildlife across the state of Michigan. You can reach the Wildlife Division at 517 284 9453 or DNRWildlife at Michigan.gov.