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Virginia Outdoor Adventures: Hiking, Camping, Kayaking, Local Travel and more!
From the Blue Ridge Mountains to the Chesapeake Bay, Virginia is a mecca for outdoor travel and adventure. Virginia Outdoor Adventures Podcast is the ultimate guide to local outdoor recreation, including hiking, camping, kayaking, local travel and so much more. Get the information and the inspiration to plan your own adventure, right here in Virginia. Lets Go!
Virginia Outdoor Adventures: Hiking, Camping, Kayaking, Local Travel and more!
Virginia's Venomous and Nonvenomous Snakes: Hiking Safety, Myths, and Appreciation with Caroline Seitz, Virginia Herpetological Society (Ep 62, Part 1)
We’re slithering into the fascinating world of Virginia’s snakes, equipping you with practical tips to enjoy the great outdoors while respecting these often-misunderstood creatures.
In Part 1 of this two-part episode, Caroline Seitz of the Virginia Herpetological Society, helps us dispel common myths and misconceptions while broadening our understanding and appreciation of our native species.
Caroline tackles listener questions about safety measures and snake behavior, offering practical advice for snake encounters, so you can hit the trails with confidence. Let’s Go!
Join us next week when Caroline tackles more listener questions, such as “Will pants protect against snake bites?, How far north can pythons spread?, Should we carry antivenom while hiking or backpacking?, What to do if you’re bit in a remote area?, and "Is anything still alive when it gets into that snake belly?”
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Mentioned in this Episode:
Virginia Herpetological Society
Book: Guide to Snakes and Lizards of Virginia
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From the Blue Ridge Mountains to the Chesapeake Bay. Virginia is a mecca for outdoor travel and adventure. Virginia Outdoor Adventures podcast is your local guide for hiking, camping, kayaking, travel and so much more. Get the information and the inspiration to plan your own adventure right here in Virginia. I'm your host, jessica Bowser. Right here in Virginia. I'm your host, jessica Bowser. We're slithering into the fascinating world of Virginia snakes, equipping you with practical tips to enjoy the great outdoors while respecting these often misunderstood creatures. In part one of this two-part episode, caroline Seitz of the Virginia Herpetological Society helps us dispel common myths and misconceptions while broadening our understanding and appreciation of our native species. Caroline tackles listener questions about safety measures and snake behavior, offering practical advice for snake encounters so you can hit the trails with confidence. Let's go, caroline. Welcome to Virginia Outdoor Adventures.
Speaker 2:I'm super excited to be here. I'm super excited, it's awesome.
Speaker 1:I love your energy, Caroline. This is going to be a fantastic conversation. What do you love about Virginia's outdoors?
Speaker 2:I love hiking, I love kayaking, I love swimming in rivers and oceans and bays, when there's not jellyfish, and I love reptiles and amphibians, especially snakes.
Speaker 1:Your energy and love for snakes is contagious. When I spend time with you, I am more excited about snakes than I am any other time. Can you kick us off by telling us how many species of snakes are native to Virginia?
Speaker 2:So there's 32 different species of snakes native to Virginia. That's actually a good number, that's a lot, and of those 32 species, only three are venomous. Let me just say, though, only three are venomous to people. There are snakes that are mildly venomous, like garter snakes and ringneck snakes, but their venom is so not dangerous to people at all that we can really just consider them harmless. They're completely harmless. So there's only three snakes that are dangerously venomous to people in Virginia.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting. I've heard people say that ringneck snakes do have venom, and I had no idea garter snakes did as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, and dead hognose snakes and water snakes have a toxic saliva, you know. There's a lot going on with snakes. Basically you don't have to be afraid of really any snake because as long as you leave all snakes alone, they'll leave you alone. But there are three that if you were to accidentally step on them or pick them up on purpose, that it could be a bad situation.
Speaker 1:So you just want to leave them alone, pick them up on purpose that it could be a bad situation, so you just want to leave them alone. Okay, we'll get to that in just a moment, but first I want to ask you which species are most common in the different regions of Virginia.
Speaker 2:So, generally speaking, the Eastern rat snake, also known as the black rat snake, is one that people see pretty frequently. It's large, it's one of our biggest native Virginia snakes. It can get five, know five, six feet long. And they're diurnal, which means they come out in the daytime and they tend to be out, you know, out in the open. They go up trees, they climb on fences, they climb up brick walls. They're amazing at climbing and so people tend to see them just because they're big, they're out and they're out in the day.
Speaker 2:But there's other snakes that people see pretty frequently, like the Decay's brown snake, pretty small little guy, they can get around maybe 12 to 18 inches. They're very shy, they spend almost all their time under the leaves, under rocks and logs, but especially this time of year, in the fall, they do tend to start coming out more. I see them a lot out on trails. When I'm out walking or running on the running path or the bike path, I see a lot of decay brown snakes crossing the trail this time of year. So they're very, very common and they're adapted for urban areas so you can even see them in right in downtown Richmond, places like that. Yeah, the Eastern rat snake, the decays brown snake, another one that people see all the time Northern water snake People when they go fishing, kayaking, just walking along a canal or walking along a river and they see these big, goofy, heavy bodied snakes and they think what is that? Could that possibly?
Speaker 1:be a water moccasin.
Speaker 2:Almost certainly not a water moccasin, because they only live in just one little section of Southeastern Virginia. But people see these Northern water snakes. They're throughout the entire state of Virginia and they're out sunning. They're big and they're where a lot of people like to go along the water. So those would be probably my top three, and then there's others that are pretty common garter snakes, ring-necked snakes, northern racers. Those are probably the ones that people see the most often.
Speaker 1:And then aren't there species that prefer certain habitats where you won't find them in one part of Virginia, but they're more common in others.
Speaker 2:Oh for sure. For instance, let's just start with the cottonmouth, also known as the water moxon, Water moxon, cottonmouth same snake, just different name. And that animal only lives in a small section of southeastern Virginia, like right around Virginia Beach, Hampton Roads, Dismal Swamp, a little bit north up the James River. Once you get towards Richmond you're out of the range. It's very limited.
Speaker 2:If you're in the northern Virginia area, if you're in Richmond, if you're in the mountains of Virginia or even the northern neck, like around Colonial Beach, you cannot find cottonmouths there, you know, if one hitched a ride on a truck or something, but that's so unlikely, they're just not found in most parts of Virginia. And then the timber rattlesnake is found in the mountains and then it's found on the coastal plain, like where the cottonmouths are, but not in the Piedmont. So yes, there is geographical limitation to where you're going to find certain species of snakes. However, there are quite a few Virginia snakes that are found throughout the entire state, All the ones that I just listed, you know the eastern rat snake, northern black racer, garter snake, ringneck snake, brown snake and then also the copperhead. The copperhead is the only venomous snake found throughout the entire state of Virginia, except for certain places, like in the mountains, where it gets a little bit too high for them.
Speaker 1:I feel like this is a good place to talk about this book that you and I both own, and it's a guide to the snakes and lizards of Virginia, and it's published by the Virginia Department of Wildlife Resources.
Speaker 2:In conjunction we helped the Virginia Herpetological Society resources. In conjunction we helped the Virginia Herpetological Society and a lot of the photos and information was gathered by Virginia Herpetological Society.
Speaker 1:This is such a wonderful resource. Every page of this book has a different species of snake, with a map of Virginia that shows you where you can find them.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Oh and, by the way, on the Virginia Herpetological Society website you can actually see an exact map and you can see an actual list of counties where you can find cottonmouth water moccasins. But here's the picture. I don't know how well it shows up, but there it is. You can see just that little tiny blob of southeastern Virginia, and then the copperhead. Look see the difference Copperhead everywhere, cottonmouth not so much.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, it shows exactly where you can find it, or?
Speaker 2:you know the approximate range. Here's that deal with the rattlesnake. You can see the mountains and then the little blob. Oh yeah, in Virginia people tend to call the timber rattlesnake. When it's found on the coastal plain they tend to call it a cane break rattlesnake. But the cane break it's just a timber rattlesnake that's found on the coastal plain.
Speaker 1:Now, if I hear it, I'll know what people are talking about. Yes, okay, so this is a great resource that I would recommend, as well as the website that you just mentioned, and I will link that in the show notes. I would save it on your phone, in addition to being a guidebook. I actually keep track of when I find snakes.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for every species that I have ever found, I have a post-it note on that page of this book and I write down where I saw it and the dates, and so it's kind of like this record of where and when I've seen things. And so it feels to me almost like a scavenger hunt now, because now I'm hoping to see some of the snakes that I've never seen before, and when I do find one, I get so excited. Whenever I find something new it's just like this really exciting moment and when you can keep track of it and you can actually be eager about what you might find. I think it just adds to the excitement.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and snakes come in so many different colors and patterns and they're beautiful. They're like jewels, yes, and you can see them so much more up close than birds, which I love birds too. But yes, finding snakes in the wild is just like. It's always a thrill, even when I found I don't know, I've probably found thousands and thousands of decays brown snakes, and every time I see one I'm excited it's a snake.
Speaker 1:So, caroline, I asked my listeners to submit questions for you to answer on this episode. We're going to get to that, but one of the questions as you can imagine that I got repetitively was should hikers and others be concerned if they encounter a snake?
Speaker 2:Not at all. Not at all. If you see a snake, just walk around it. Don't touch it, Don't poke it, Just give it some space and leave it alone. This past summer, my partner and I were hiking on a trail along the Shenandoah River and we came across a timber rattlesnake. I was behind him and he stopped and said oh, Caroline, get yourself ready, You're going to be excited and he kind of stepped back and let me come forward.
Speaker 2:And there it was, a beautiful, gorgeous timber rattlesnake, half out of the trail and half in the brushy brush. So we both we both, you know maintain some distance. We probably stayed about four feet, five feet away I suggest staying always at least six feet away for people who don't understand how snakes work and move but we stayed a safe distance away. I got some good pictures. We sat and talked and we were going to go around it. We were just going to walk off the trail and just, you know, six feet away from it and then continue on our way.
Speaker 2:Except of course, I didn't want to leave it. We didn't bother at all. It never got scared, it never rattled its tail because it never was frightened. It just slowly backed away and then went on its own way and we said bye and then we continued on our hike. You know, if we had gone up to that snake and tried to pick it up, the venom of a timber rattlesnake is no joke. Like I don't want to make light here. You know timber rattlesnakes, you know they have potentially fatal venom, but if you just leave them alone they are not going to bother you and they're gorgeous.
Speaker 1:The first time I saw a timber rattlesnake, I was stunned how close I had gotten to it, without even knowing how close I had gotten. I was hiking in Shenandoah National Park and there was a group of retirees from Charlottesville who hiked together frequently, who were coming up the trail towards me. So I stepped off the trail to allow them to pass and the first person in the group after they had already passed me said oh, look, there's a snake. And the snake was sleeping literally right on the edge of the trail. So when I had walked past it without noticing it, my foot came within inches. Then when she said, oh, look at that, I was like everybody out of my way, I'm coming back to see the snake and I probably spent half an hour just, you know, just looking at it, observing it. It never moved, never once moved, and it was just really neat to observe it and photograph it from a safe distance. But I couldn't believe that I had come that close to it and had no idea.
Speaker 2:That's awesome and that is such a typical encounter. People don't even realize, honestly, how often they walk by snakes, because snakes are so good at camouflaging and the snake doesn't do anything. Snakes, for one thing, never attack humans. Like no snake is going to attack you. Snakes will become defensive if they feel frightened, like if you start bothering them.
Speaker 2:But keep in mind that snakes view human beings as a huge, giant, terrifying monster. They don't view us as food. They're not evil creatures. They don't have that at all going on. They're just a wild animal who's afraid of humans and they think that if you're touching them or picking them up or stepping on them, hurting them, they can feel pain and they can feel fear and they can't talk. A snake can't say excuse me, you're stepping on me, can you please? You know move. And they can't say wow, I'm really scared of you, could you please not scare me and just continue on your way? Snakes can't talk and snakes also can't scratch. They can't roar. Some snakes do rattle, like the rattlesnakes and copperheads and rat snakes will actually shake their tails and if they're in dry leaves they can sound like a rattlesnake.
Speaker 2:But snakes will bite in defense and keep in mind they don't want to bite you. They don't want to be that close to you. They only do that as a last resort. And just one more little note about venomous snakes they didn't develop venom for defense, like.
Speaker 2:The reason that rattlesnakes have venom is not actually to protect themselves. So the last thing that they want to do is use their venom on you, because the reason they have venom is to obtain their dinner. Snakes don't have arms and hands. They can't use forks and knives and their food, like a rat or a chipmunk, will fight back and bite and scratch and can well severely injure them. So venom helps the snakes to get their prey. They can bite their prey, inject the poison, then they can hide, their food goes off and dies and then they can eat it safely. So they want to save their venom for their own meal, for their own protection. They don't have venom to bite you, but they will use it if they're scared, and so the best thing to do when you see a snake just leave it alone.
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Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't know the answer to that, but I can tell you that, from what I understand, the chances of being bitten by a venomous snake are so low here in North America especially, but here in Virginia particularly, a lot of people who are bitten are bitten when they were on purpose bothering the snake. They were either trying to hurt the snake, which puts you too close, or they were trying to pick up the snake, or they were either trying to hurt the snake, which puts you too close, or they were trying to pick up the snake, or they were. You know, for whatever reason they were trying to bother it, and that what we would call a legitimate bite, where somebody was gardening and they accidentally put their hand on it, or they were hiking and they accidentally stepped on it. It does happen, but not very often. I mean seriously.
Speaker 2:When you're hiking, there are so many other things to be thinking about that could be more dangerous. I mean falling and twisting your ankle, being number one or having your picnic next to a yellow jacket nest. No, thank you. You know I can think of some other things, but we won't go there. But all I can tell you is that snakes are really not something that you need to be afraid of. If you see a snake, just leave it alone. And what about dogs? I'm afraid of dogs. When we see them on the trail, yeah, I'm scared of them. When I see a dog, I'm like, oh, I hope that dog is on a leash, I hope it's not going to bite me, because way more people are bitten and injured by dogs than snakes. I'm glad that you pointed that out.
Speaker 1:As you can imagine, that's not the direction I was going, but I know there are dog owners who are also very concerned that their dogs will get bitten by snakes, but it sounds like what you're saying is that it's usually the other way around.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, dogs definitely hurt way more snakes. Again, the chances are, when you find a snake or your dog finds a snake, it's non-venomous.
Speaker 2:And a non-venomous snake, like a garter snake. It can't hurt you. A garter snake, even if it bites you, it might scratch your skin and that's it. It's like scratching your skin on a thorn bush. So a garter snake, a rat snake, a water snake, they can't hurt you in any way, except for a scratch. The venomous snakes that are so uncommon, you know, yeah, that could be a problem. So if you're hiking with your dog, I suggest keeping it on a leash, both for people safety and for your, for your doggy safety. And if you do see a snake, just you know, keep the dog back. And that would you know, that could be the same thing with, like raccoons or foxes or other wild creatures, and also dogs running off leash through the woods can disturb delicate plants. They could run through vernal pools and disturb amphibian eggs. So it's really a good idea to keep your dogs controlled. Some people I see have dogs that are so well-trained, they just walk and they follow directions, or keep them on a leash for their safety and for the habitat safety.
Speaker 1:All great points, Caroline. What might happen if we did not have snakes?
Speaker 2:Our ecosystems are adapted, evolved, with snakes in them. Snakes are a natural, normal, healthy part of our environment. Snakes are food for animals like eagles and hawks and raccoons. Snakes eat animals like insects and rats and mice and other rodents. Snakes are an integral like. They're right there in the food chain, they're right there in the food web, and so if we were to remove snakes, that whole balance would go out of whack. You may end up with just large populations of rodents and insects, animals like hawks and eagles. They would be missing a food source. So snakes, again, they are an integral, healthy part of our environment.
Speaker 1:I'm very excited to dive into the listener questions. Are you ready to do this?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this question comes from Kelsey and she would like to know what is the difference between venomous and poisonous, and do we have either here in Virginia?
Speaker 2:Generally speaking, venomous animals are animals that inject poison. So a wasp is venomous. A jelly, a jellyfish is venomous. They actually have little stingers that penetrate the skin and inject poison. Snakes are venomous when they have fangs that they bite and then are like hypodermic needles. They inject the poison. Poisonous would be something like a mushroom that can't sting or bite you, but if you eat it it makes you sick. So, generally speaking, something poisonous is something that you ingest and it makes you sick. Something that's venomous is something that injects and makes you sick. But if you use the word poisonous snake describing a copperhead, you're right. I mean it's a poisonous animal, but they are venomous in the sense that they deliver their poison by injecting it.
Speaker 1:I got a lot of questions about venomous snakes and I'm not going to ask everyone because a lot of them are similar, so I kind of lumped some of them together and you've already sort of addressed some of this. Maura would like to know what are the most venomous snakes in Virginia and where do they live.
Speaker 2:So the cottonmouth and the timber rattlesnake are definitely more dangerously venomous than the copperhead. But let's also say the copperhead venom is also really no joke. If you're bitten by a copperhead you should absolutely seek medical attention, and if you're bitten by a timber rattlesnake or a cottonmouth you absolutely should seek medical attention. All three of those snakes have dangerous venom, but the timber rattlesnake and the cottonmouth's venom is medically more dangerous.
Speaker 1:Kelly actually had quite a few questions, but she was very enthusiastic about this. In fact, she said oh my gosh, I have so many questions. So she would like to know how do you identify non-venomous snakes?
Speaker 2:Are there any quick and easy ways to identify snakes? No, there's really not. You know, it's like identifying birds, it's like identifying mushrooms, honestly, it's like identifying cars. When I have to call a ride share for a car, I cannot identify cars. I look at them and they just look like cars to me, like I can tell a van from a sedan, I think. But cars I just can't do it. But snakes I'm really good. You know why? Because I love them and I spend a lot of time. I've spent my whole life, starting from when I was three years old. I would go to bed at night reading snake field guides, just staring at the pictures and reading the descriptions, not even making that up. Well, as soon as I could read, because obviously, maybe at three, somebody was reading the field guide to me. But there are no quick and easy ways.
Speaker 2:Some people say look at the pupil in the snake's eye. Well, you have to be really close. Number one Also in low lighting conditions, copperheads, rattlesnakes and cottonmouths their eyes will open. So it could be round Again, just not the greatest. Some people say look at the shape of a snake's head. You know, in general the cottonmouth, copperhead and timber rattlesnakes do have a slightly more triangular head set off from the neck. However, every non-venomous snake in Virginia, when it's frightened, flattens its head into a triangle. So that characteristic alone is not a way to identify if a snake is venomous or not.
Speaker 2:Some people say look for a pattern. That's not a great way at all, because all snakes have patterns, even what we would call the black rat snake. The Eastern rat snake, is born with like diamonds on its back that slowly fade to black and don't always fade all the way. There is not a quick and easy way to identify if a snake is venomous or non-venomous. I would suggest that you sit down with a book and start learning the venomous snakes in your area. First, remember in Virginia we only have three and in most parts of Virginia just one, the copperhead and also keep in mind there's individual variation within the species. So copperheads sometimes have stripes on them instead of the normal Hershey kiss pattern. Timber rattlesnakes can be all black, they can be tan, they can have chevrons. The cottonmouth water moccasin can have a pixelated pattern or it can be almost completely black. So you need to learn multiple characteristics shape of the body, shape of the head, the scalation, whether it's keeled or smooth. You know, it's just a lot more than can be learned listening to a podcast.
Speaker 1:And Kelly also wanted to know why does a hog nose flatten itself? Is that part of the triangular head?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they flatten themselves when they're scared. Triangular head yeah, they flatten themselves when they're scared. It's a fear response and they spread themselves out, especially behind their head, so it looks they have a hood similar to a cobra and they do this when they're frightened. It makes them look bigger and, hopefully for them, scarier, so that whatever it is that's bothering them might be like. Oh, oh no, I don't want to bother that snake. It's too scary and run away, and then the hognose snake will be safe.
Speaker 1:Hognose snake. Can we just take a moment to admire hognose snake? Just love them.
Speaker 2:Just love them. Could there be a better?
Speaker 1:snake, Exactly, and I've only ever seen one. But I told you it is my absolute favorite and when I saw it I was so happy. It's such a beautiful, beautiful animal. But what I think is so hilarious about it is that it will hiss and hiss and hiss and make itself sound like it's super scary. But if you try to touch it it doesn't bite, it just rolls over and plays dead. And what is cuter than a snake that is playing dead?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when it rolls over and plays dead, it often goes to the bathroom all over itself, so it smells like it's dead. Yeah, and when it rolls over and plays dead, it often goes to the bathroom all over itself. So it smells like it's dead and it will open its mouth up and hang its tongue out and then, if you try to roll it back onto its belly, it'll flip right back on its back, because to the hognose snake, a dead snake means it has to be on its back. But for those of you out there who are wanting to do this, if you find a hognose snake, try not to, because, remember, when we're doing this to the hognose snake, the poor little hognose snake is terrified, it's afraid it's about to die and be eaten.
Speaker 1:Where does it get the name hognose from?
Speaker 2:Because if you, look at the head of the hognose snake.
Speaker 1:You'll see that its snout scale is upturned like a pig, and that's the other thing that makes it so incredibly cute, but also pretty easy to ID if you can get a good look at its face. But the other thing that's so neat about it is it has and you'll have to excuse me for not knowing the correct terminology here but like a cobra, where the side of its head just sort of flares out. Yeah, a hood, a hood. Okay, are there any other snakes in Virginia that have hoods besides the hognose?
Speaker 2:Hmm, no, but lots of snakes will inflate themselves with air and puff up like garter snakes and they can even flatten out so they look bigger and puffier.
Speaker 1:Okay, when I ran into a hognose, that hood came out and I had this amazing video of it, and when I shared it, people were like what kind of cobra is that?
Speaker 2:In my old days, when I used to do a different job, part of my job was responding to snake calls and I would get calls about cobras in people's yards and it was hognose snakes. And hognose snakes come in many different colors and patterns. Some hognose snakes can be bright orange, like the one that you saw, with beautiful pattern, or some can be jet black, like solid black, and of course, when you have a black, you know looking snake with a big hood and they hiss really loud people are like oh, cobra cobra, but there are in fact no cobras outside of zoos in Virginia.
Speaker 1:Good to know. The last question that I picked from Kelly is what is most misunderstood about snakes. Join us next week when Caroline tackles more listener questions such as will pants protect against snake bites? How far north can python spread? Should we carry antivenom while hiking or backpacking, what to do if you're bit in a remote area? And my favorite question is anything still alive when it gets into that snake belly? See you next week. Friends, Virginia Outdoor Adventures is inspired by and supported by listeners like you, which is why your messages and feedback means so much to me. You can text me directly by clicking on. Send me a text message in your show notes. I answer questions, respond to comments and share your feedback on the show. Never miss an update. Get even more information and inspiration by signing up for my newsletter. Click on newsletter, sign up in your show notes or visit Virginia outdoor adventurescom. Thanks for listening. Until next time. Adventure on.
