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Virginia Outdoor Adventures: Hiking, Camping, Kayaking, Local Travel and more!
From the Blue Ridge Mountains to the Chesapeake Bay, Virginia is a mecca for outdoor travel and adventure. Virginia Outdoor Adventures Podcast is the ultimate guide to local outdoor recreation, including hiking, camping, kayaking, local travel and so much more. Get the information and the inspiration to plan your own adventure, right here in Virginia. Lets Go!
Virginia Outdoor Adventures: Hiking, Camping, Kayaking, Local Travel and more!
Virginia's Venomous and Nonvenomous Snakes: Hiking Safety, Myths, and Appreciation with Caroline Seitz, Virginia Herpetological Society (Ep 62, Part 2)
We’re slithering into the fascinating world of Virginia’s snakes, equipping you with practical tips to enjoy the great outdoors while respecting these often-misunderstood creatures.
In Part 2 of this two-part episode, Caroline Seitz of the Virginia Herpetological Society, helps us dispel common myths and misconceptions while broadening our understanding and appreciation of our native species.
Caroline tackles listener questions about safety measures and snake behavior, offering practical advice for snake encounters, so you can hit the trails with confidence. Let’s Go!
Don’t miss part 1 of this two-part episode. Last week, Caroline covered how many species of snakes are native to Virginia and which are venomous, our most common species throughout the state, the difference between venomous and poisonous, and whether hikers should be concerned about encountering a snake on the trail.
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Mentioned in this Episode:
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Book: Guide to Snakes and Lizards of Virginia
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From the Blue Ridge Mountains to the Chesapeake Bay. Virginia is a mecca for outdoor travel and adventure. Virginia Outdoor Adventures podcast is your local guide for hiking, camping, kayaking, travel and so much more. Get the information and the inspiration to plan your own adventure right here in Virginia. I'm your host, jessica Bowser. We're slithering into the fascinating world of Virginia snakes, equipping you with practical tips to enjoy the great outdoors while respecting these often misunderstood creatures. In part two of this two-part episode, caroline Seitz of the Virginia Herpetological Society helps us dispel common myths and misconceptions, while broadening our understanding and appreciation of our native species. Caroline tackles listener questions about safety measures and snake behavior, offering practical advice for snake encounters so you can hit the trails with confidence. Let's go. Hit the trails with confidence, let's go. The last question that I picked from Kelly is what is most misunderstood?
Caroline Seitz:about snakes. I'm just going to go with that snakes are something to be afraid of, that snakes are somehow dangerous to humans. Okay again, copperheads, rattlesnakes, cottonmouths if you get bitten by them. Dangerous, no question about it. But it's so easy. It's so easy to not be bitten. You just leave them alone. And all the other snakes, the other 29 species of snakes found in Virginia. They can't even hurt you at all, like there's nothing that they could do that would harm you. Also, they're not like thinking about hurting you either.
Caroline Seitz:Snakes have a mind. They have feelings. They feel fear, they can feel pain, they can feel hungry, but snakes, they don't have any interest in being around people. They're afraid of people. Also, people think why do they want to come in my house? Like, are they coming into my house just to bother me? No, If you have snakes in your house, it's because they were able to get inside. There was some way, there was some opening. It could be as small as a hole the size of a pencil and they're just nosing around and they can stick their little head in and they can come in. They're not doing it because they want to live with you. They just go inside of houses because they can actually get inside of them, and especially this time of year in the fall, when it's getting cold outside, they're looking for warm places and your house is nice and cozy. So the way to keep them out of your house is just to make sure that there's no access points.
Jessica Bowser:I imagine that's probably tricky. You know, I live in a townhouse and the attic is relatively inaccessible except through this small crawl space in the ceiling and so I never go up there in the 14 years that I think I've owned my house.
Jessica Bowser:But I did have to go up once. I was checking on something and I had to get out a ladder and I climbed through the hole and I'm like walking up in the rafters with the flashlight and I found this at least four foot long snakeskin, you know, just like in the rafters, and I thought it was the coolest thing. And I remembered that several years before we had had mice, mice had somehow gotten in and so I felt really grateful in that moment that that snake had found its way in and was helping me with the rodent problem that I potentially was having at the time. And I came down with the picture and was so excited. My husband was not the least bit excited. He was like what's up there? I mean he was ready to burn the house down, but I was like you know, this is really cool that this animal can come in and actually help me with a potential issue that I had that I would otherwise have to pay an exterminator for.
Caroline Seitz:Yeah, and the rodents actually could hurt you. The snake couldn't have hurt you, but the rodents, they can actually carry some diseases that are zoonotic, that can spread to humans. Also, rodents can chew through electrical wiring, and, speaking of burning the house down, they could have done that for you. So rodents are a real, actual problem to have in your house. Whereas a snake is not going to cause a fire and is very unlikely to give you any diseases, snakes potentially can carry salmonella. Very unlikely that you're going to get salmonella from a snake that's in your house, though, whereas other diseases from rodents are.
Caroline Seitz:Oh, and getting back to common myths about snakes, there's two that I thought of jumped in my head. One is that cottonmouth water moccasins are found throughout Virginia. That's a common common myth. I'll be walking along the Potomac River in Fairfax County, or I'll be, you know one of the county parks here, and people see a water snake, or you know any snake near the water, and they say, oh, that's a water moccasin. No, no, no, no, no. We don't have those in this part of Virginia.
Caroline Seitz:The other common myth that I hear is that copperheads mate with black rat snakes or eastern rat snakes to produce venomous babies, and that is completely wrong, completely impossible.
Caroline Seitz:For one thing, rat snakes lay eggs, and copperheads give birth to live babies. Also, I won't get too technical here, but the parts they have internal fertilization between male and female snakes, and the hemipenes of the male snake are like a lock and key with its own species, so they in fact won't fit with a species that's not their own. The reason, though, that I think that that myth was created is that young Eastern rat snakes and young Northern black racers are not black. They are born with that diamond pattern of gray or brown over a creamy white background, and when they're frightened they flatten their head in a triangle, they raise in an S shape and they rattle their tail, even though they don't have a rattle. So they resemble rattlesnakes when they're young, when they're juveniles, and then they, as they grow, slowly fade to black, although sometimes they can retain a little bit of their juvenile pattern. So again, cottonmouth water moccasins only live in a small part of southeastern Virginia, nowhere else, and venomous snakes cannot interbreed with non-venomous snakes. Wow.
Jessica Bowser:All really interesting and maybe I'm wrong about this, but just from my own experience as somebody who hikes a lot and hikes around all parts of the state a lot, I very rarely ever come across one of the three venomous snakes. I even spent eight days primitive camping at Falls Cape State Park a few years ago and cottonmouths are pretty common there. I never saw one, even when, like the ranger came to pick me up at the end of my trip. I hopped into the truck and we're driving out and I said you know, I never saw a cottonmouth the whole time I was here. She goes what? There was one right next to the truck when we were loading your stuff. If I had known I would have pointed it out. So I to this day still have not seen one. But I have seen like maybe two rattlesnakes and I just saw my first copperhead literally this past summer, the day before my birthday. It was like the best birthday present ever. But otherwise I really I just don't run into them and I don't know, is that normal?
Caroline Seitz:That is so normal. So, listen, I'm 52 years old and I've been looking for snakes since I was three. So that's like 49 years of looking for snakes actively and I can count two, two timber rattlesnakes. I'm just going to count for Virginia, but really for the rest of my life, traveling everywhere else too. I usually don't see venomous snakes, but here in Virginia I think I've seen two timber rattlesnakes. Never seen a cottonmouth tried. I went down to First Landing State Park a couple of times. I went to the National Wildlife Refuge that's next to Falls. Cape Back Bay was told, oh, you're definitely going to see them. Didn't, didn't see, looked and looked and I know what I'm looking for and I was there specifically at the right time of year. Didn't see them. They're there, they're there for sure. I just didn't get to see them. And then I probably have seen maybe 10 copperheads. And again, I am actively out there looking.
Jessica Bowser:Yeah, so I guess your chances of really running into one are probably if you're lucky, right, if you're lucky if you're super duper lucky, you'll get to see one. Yeah, I think I've seen more as roadkill, sadly, than alive ones.
Caroline Seitz:And a lot of people, when they see snakes, assume that they're a copperhead or a cottonmouth or a rattlesnake. When they're not Like a lot of people will see a garter snake or a decays brown snake or a young racer or rat snake and label it. They'll tell everybody oh, that's a copperhead, I saw a copperhead and I think the reason for that is it's more exciting for people to say they saw a venomous snake than a non-venomous snake. It sounds better when you go home and say I was on a hike and I saw a copperhead than I was on a hike and I saw a decays brown snake.
Jessica Bowser:Yeah, they live to tell the story. In other words, yeah, exactly.
Caroline Seitz:And so it's just more exciting. And so a lot of people hear that people are seeing these snakes and they think, wow, there's a lot of copperheads. When no. But hey, if you ever do want to find out for sure, if you're not a snake nerd yourself and you need somebody to ID it from a safe distance, if you get a picture of whatever snake that you're seeing safe distance, we can zoom in, you can email it to the Virginia Herpetological Society and we can give you a definitive ID. We have the top experts on Virginia herpetology working on the Virginia Herp ID email. We literally have people who are in fact writing the book on salamanders in Virginia who are part of the Virginia Herpetological Society.
Jessica Bowser:Yeah, I'll just jump in to say that I have emailed photos to them, or even sent them via Messenger on Facebook many, many times over the years, because there are a lot of species that look very similar, like smooth green snake and rough green snake right. Yes.
Caroline Seitz:And one of the things that's helpful when you send us that picture is tell us where you are, like, not like. Are you in your you know backyard? No, no, no. We need to know, like what county or what town you're in, because, for instance, in the case of a smooth versus rough green snake, in addition to looking at the scalation, if you tell us what county you're in, that can automatically rule out the smooth green snake, because the smooth green snake is only found in certain counties.
Jessica Bowser:Yeah, and that's a beautiful snake too, both of them.
Caroline Seitz:Never seen the smooth green, seen rough greens, but never a smooth.
Jessica Bowser:Yeah, I saw a Northern rough green snake. I was riding my bike down Highbridge Trail one September and they were out sunning themselves on the trail and I didn't realize it and I ran one over with my bike and I literally cried Caroline, I was so upset because they're so adorable and they're not aggressive in any way and it was just out there being its little cute snake self. Yeah, they're beautiful.
Caroline Seitz:They eat insects. They're just such a fantastic snake.
Jessica Bowser:I was with a friend who was trying to calm me down and he's like, oh, but it slithered away, it's perfectly fine. I'm like, no, it's probably suffering over in the bushes, over there A lot of people don't realize snakes have bones, just they're a vertebrate animal.
Caroline Seitz:They literally have backbone and ribs and a skull. They have stomach, lungs, lung. Most snakes just have one lung. Some snakes do have two, but they have liver, they have pancreas, they have all the same internal organs that you have. Basically, snakes are just like you. They just don't have arms and legs.
Jessica Bowser:And this one's really cute because its face reminds me of Kermit the Frog oh yeah, I don't know how else to describe it Like if you really don't like snakes and you can't get over the long you know body or whatever. Just look at its face.
Caroline Seitz:Yeah.
Jessica Bowser:I mean they look like other reptiles that we think are cute, things like frogs and turtles. Like their faces are pretty much the same and they're just really adorable.
Caroline Seitz:Yeah, yeah, oh. And here's another myth. A lot of people think snakes are slimy In. I'm sure you've all heard that word before keratin right, they put it in really expensive hair products because your fingernails and your hair is also made of keratin. So if you wanna know what petting a snake feels like, pet your fingernails, because snake scales are just basically fingernails that are small and laid down all across the snake's body. But I also don't recommend petting snakes because they don't like it when humans touch them.
Jessica Bowser:New in season five this podcast will only be available to paid subscribers. Just kidding, virginia Outdoor Adventures is always free for my listeners. But did you know? This podcast costs on average $850 a month plus 60 hours of labor to produce. That doesn't even include travel time and expenses, equipment or marketing to promote the show. Contributions from listeners like you help defray the cost of producing quality episodes that serve as resources for your next adventure.
Jessica Bowser:To show my appreciation for your continued support, I've created brand new membership levels on Buy Me a Coffee. New membership perks include exclusive offers from my sponsors, discounts in the merch store and virtual happy hour events with guest speakers. Members will also continue to receive vinyl stickers, the full list of links and resources from every episode sent directly to your inbox inbox and a shout out on the show. If you're enjoying this podcast, please consider supporting me. Hit pause on your podcast player, go to your show notes and click on buy me a coffee, where you can buy me a virtual coffee or sign up for a membership. My sincerest gratitude for the newest members of Virginia Outdoor Adventures Karen from Broadlands, ryan from Holly Springs, donna from Danville, christina from Alexandria and Michelle from Newport News. Thank you so much for your support. So Thomas sent in a question he would like to know is there any type of tree snakes in Virginia?
Caroline Seitz:Oh yeah, definitely so. The rough green snake, the smooth green snake, the eastern rat snake, oh man, rat snakes. If the rough green snake, the smooth green snake, the eastern rat snake, oh man, rat snakes, if you see a snake somewhere and you think how did that snake get up there, it's almost certainly a rat snake.
Jessica Bowser:I have seen rough green snakes in trees before too.
Caroline Seitz:They're, definitely they are arboreal. This time of year is really the time that we see them, because they're completely camouflaged when they're up in trees and bushes, but they leave the trees and bushes right now because they're searching for places to hibernate. Snakes don't exactly hibernate, for those of you who are in the know, but you know what I mean. They're finding places that they can hunker down for the winter, so we can actually see their beautiful emerald green bodies as they're cruising across trails and paths, whereas normally they're up in the green trees and bushes.
Jessica Bowser:Glenn sent in this question, which I think is really interesting. He says Florida is having a lot of issues with pythons. How far north could they spread?
Caroline Seitz:It's a really good question that I don't know the exact answer to. Pythons are tropical species, but obviously Florida is not exactly in the tropics and they've been able to survive there, but they're not going to come here. We're not going to have pythons living in Virginia, so we don't have to worry about that. But I will say this that poor pythons, they are an invasive species. It's not healthy to have them in the Everglades. But, come on, there's like so many invasive species that are so much more devastatingly noxious than Burmese pythons. Let's just talk about porcelain berry. Let's talk about kudzu, let's talk about the spotted lanternfly. Let's talk about the invasive armorated stink bug. There are so many species that are just not as exciting. They're not as sexy as the Burmese python that we can all talk about and vilify. Are Burmese pythons good to have in Florida? Definitely not. Are they the worst thing that's happening in Florida? No, they're not. There's plenty of other things. And no, you don't need to worry about Burmese pythons being in Virginia.
Jessica Bowser:I won't get on my soapbox about spotted lanternflies, but those seem to be getting out of control right now. So yeah, you're right, there's a lot of other things to be concerned about.
Caroline Seitz:Much, much more devastating than Burmese pythons.
Jessica Bowser:All right. So the next question is from Elise and I just love this question because, honestly, I've wondered this myself and she asks is anything still alive when it gets into that snake belly?
Caroline Seitz:And I have a great story for you. So when I was a little girl, I would spend my days out of school in the woods. Behind my back there's a big swamp and I once brought home a giant northern water snake and I don't recommend that you guys go out and catch snakes and bring them home, but I was you know, I was 10, and I was bringing home snakes and putting them in my room for a couple of days and then letting them go because I love snakes. And I brought home this giant northern water snake and for those of you who are wondering, did it bite me and did it poop all over me? The answer is yes and yes. And while it was biting and pooping, it's because it was terrified, because I was holding it and it was scared of me.
Caroline Seitz:It threw up a huge spotted salamander, probably eight inches long. It was enormous. And it threw up the spotted salamander and I washed it off and it was fine and the salamander walked around. So the answer horrifyingly, as in Return of the Jedi, with the Sarlacc pit where you'd be slowly digested for millions of years the answer, unfortunately, is yes, with snakes that are grab and swallow eaters, like water snakes and garter snakes and decay brown snakes. They just grab their prey and they just eat it and swallow it. Yep, swallowed alive.
Jessica Bowser:I wonder how long it would actually take, or would have taken, that salamander to pass away and then be digested. Oh my gosh. So interesting. What a great story, caroline. Two in one on that day. Two in one, oh my gosh. Okay, so Steve sent in the next question. He would like to know if pants like, I guess, long pants would help protect against snake bites.
Caroline Seitz:Yeah, yeah, I mean you know they're not going to be 100% protective, but absolutely, when you're out hiking, I tuck my pants into tall rubber boots and it has nothing to do with snakes, it has everything to do with chiggers and ticks, because when I tuck my pants in and tuck them into the rubber boots, it seems to protect me from getting these terrible chigger problems and it really really cuts back on ticks. It will also definitely do something, you know, like if a snake were to try and bite the fangs of a rattlesnake or a copperhead or a cottonmouth. You know they're not teeny tiny, but they would have a lot more trouble getting through something like denim. That being said, have I gone out and gone herping in shorts and flip-flops? Yes, yes, I have, and, in fact, a lot of the people in the Virginia Herpetological Society. When they go out, they also just wear tennis shoes and shorts.
Caroline Seitz:Your chances of A finding a venomous snake are very, very low and your chances of finding one and getting it's just not really something you need to worry about. Let's just say that it's something you can. Just take a breath, it's gonna be okay.
Jessica Bowser:I always wear long pants, even in the summer, because of what you just said ticks, chiggers, poison, ivy but I'm definitely not hiking in rubber boots and I'm not hiking in anything that doesn't breathe well, so it's all very lightweight.
Caroline Seitz:I don't hike generally in rubber boots, but the reason that I wear them when we're doing the herb surveys is because we're tromping through brushy brush with chiggers and ticks and poison ivy, and I am so allergic to chigger bites and to poison ivy and so I wear those rubber boots to protect me from those things.
Jessica Bowser:Oh, that's right.
Caroline Seitz:Yeah, I remember you telling me when we were together how allergic you were to poison ivy, that's got to be tough, and on that day I wasn't wearing rubber boots, so I was staying right in the center of that trail.
Jessica Bowser:John sent. In the next question he says should we carry snake anti-venom while hiking or backpacking?
Caroline Seitz:That's an impossibility. Snake antivenin is only available to doctors and hospitals, and it requires refrigeration. It's not something that you're gonna be able to just go out and buy, and if you could, you'd have to keep it refrigerated.
Jessica Bowser:I do have one of those. I forget what it's called. It's supposed to be like a snake bite kit.
Caroline Seitz:Throw it away, unless it's a pair of car keys. Put it right in the trash can.
Jessica Bowser:That was going to be my question. It's got this like little pump in it. You're supposed to put it over the bite, don't do it.
Caroline Seitz:That will make it worse. The snake bite kit will make snake bite worse. Literally, put it in the trash. Your best snake bite kit includes a cell phone or one of those things that you can click for. Emergency help kit includes a cell phone or one of those things that you can click for emergency help.
Jessica Bowser:you know, and a set of car keys and a friend. Okay, gosh, I'm really glad I asked that and thank you, john, for submitting that question, because it triggered my brain to ask. I'm carrying this thing around in my pack every time I go out. I know, like I know I'm never going to use this thing, but there's this little thing in the back of my head going what if? And so I'm wasting all the space and the weight of this thing and I'm not a physician.
Caroline Seitz:I'm not a doctor, so if you would like to, before throwing it away, you could ask a physician. There's actually a Facebook group called National Snake Bite Support Group. If you join, you can ask them, and they are run by professional medical doctors who specialize in snake envenomation. If you wanted to get the definitive answer, they would be the best source.
Jessica Bowser:Well, that kind of leads really well into the next question, which was submitted by Michelle. She wants to know what to do if you're in a remote area and you get bit by a snake.
Caroline Seitz:So, once again, I am not a medical doctor, so I hesitate giving actual medical advice. But if I was bitten by a snake in a remote area, the first thing I would try to do is to call 911. You know, if there was any way that I could get 911, and then I would I would listen to whatever directions they gave me. That's number one. If somebody could carry me out so that I didn't have to do too much, I would try to do that. But again, 911 first. I mean, really there's not a lot that I know of that you can do if you're in remote, other than get out of remote backcountry to a hospital. If you're bitten by a venomous snake, if you're bitten by a non-venomous snake, just wash the bite with some soap and water.
Jessica Bowser:Yeah, that was going to be my next question. I feel like probably more people are bit by non-venomous snakes and really, what is the extent of damage that can be done if you're bit by a snake that's non-venomous, I mean?
Caroline Seitz:really it's just a scratch. So in the sense that a scratch could become infected, like if you fell down and scraped your knee on a rock, it could become infected If you didn't, you know, keep it clean. Same thing with a snake, but snake mouths are. They don't have any special germs that are going to be especially dangerous or anything like that. It's just a little teeny, tiny scratch.
Jessica Bowser:Caroline. Last question comes from Chrissy. She says her cat caught a small snake in their basement. She would like to know how did it get in. Did he sneak in or was he born there? And should she be on the lookout for a bunch of little baby snakes?
Caroline Seitz:Love this question. First, I hope the snake was taken to a wildlife rehabilitator or a wildlife veterinary hospital, because cat bites can be very dangerous. Cats actually do have special germs in their saliva that can be particularly aggressively infectious. Cat bites to snakes can be fatal. But how did the snake get in the basement? So in my old job long time ago, when I used to do snake inspections of properties in basements, I would find snakes coming in through the sliding glass door. There's like a little area there where snakes could sometimes get in if it doesn't have the right weather stripping. So you want to make sure if you can stick a pencil from the outside to the inside. That's one place. Another place is the dryer vent. So I have a dryer vent that when it's not on it falls flat and no animal, including birds or mice, can crawl up into my dryer vent. Also, the areas around where your plumbing comes into your home. Your electric service comes into your home. You want to make sure all of that is completely sealed up and if you have crawl space vents, you want to use a fine mesh hardware cloth that not a pencil can get through and that will keep them from getting into your basement.
Caroline Seitz:Do you have more than one snake in your basement? No way to tell it's possible. But snakes they don't like nest in the sense of like a female either she gives birth or she lays eggs and then she goes away. She doesn't protect the baby, she doesn't stay with the eggs and usually the babies will disperse. So it's not something to be too too concerned about. And if you have, you know, any specific questions. If people have questions or they want advice, they are welcome to email Virginia Herpetological Society. I am always happy to answer questions about reptiles and amphibians.
Jessica Bowser:So then I will put your contact information in the show notes for anybody who has additional questions and didn't get an opportunity to ask them for the purpose of this recording. But let's close out with a question that I think is really important, because I know a lot of people experience fear of snakes, and I was once one of those people myself. So the question is do you have any tips for people who want to get over their fear of snakes?
Caroline Seitz:For people who have a true phobia, there is a clinical term for that would be ophidiophobia the fear of snakes. I would actually recommend going to a therapist, because there are, in fact, therapies that can help people is the clinical term for that would be ophidiophobia, the fear of snakes. I would actually recommend going to a therapist, because there are, in fact, therapies that can help people get over phobias. If it's a real phobia, that's really what you're going to have to do. But if it's just a general fear of snakes because we're in a culture that vilifies snakes and people have told you bad things about snakes and you just have a lot of misinformation about snakes, I would suggest just learning. I always find that when there's something that scares me, that when I find out more about it, then the fear tends to lift. You know, human beings have a natural tendency to be afraid of things that we don't know about or that are strange or that we don't understand. It's a safety thing. I mean, if you're living a million years ago and you came upon something that you didn't know and you messed with it, you know you weren't going to be able to call 911. So our natural instincts are to avoid things that we don't know a lot about. But I recommend getting to know snakes, perhaps reading some books about snakes, maybe joining the Virginia Herpetological Society.
Caroline Seitz:Oh okay, so one of my very favorite herpetological surveys happened. I think it was three years ago. I was on a survey and I was on a team with a woman who said she was terrified of snakes. And I said, and you're on a herpetological survey? And she said, yep, because I feel like I don't want to be scared anymore. And so the whole day she was hanging out with us. But she also told us, honestly, I'm hoping we don't find a snake. But we did.
Caroline Seitz:And she was so nervous I mean, it was real, it was a little decays brown snake. It was about maybe six inches long and she looked at it. She came real close and looked at it and we suggested maybe that she touch it. Again, we generally recommend people not touch snakes, because snakes don't like human beings touching them. But for these kinds of purposes, this is something that we do and she didn't want to touch that one. So we put it back where we found it, after photographing it and marking it in our data, and then we found another brown snake, and this one she actually gently reached out one finger and gently, gently touched it. And then the third brown snake she actually put it in her hand. I couldn't believe it. She was shaking, she was nervous, but she was exactly like the kind of person that I love meeting Somebody who was genuinely afraid but genuinely open to learning more. I love her story.
Jessica Bowser:Can snakes sense when you're afraid of them? I have no idea.
Caroline Seitz:My instinct is no, just because they're not attuned to human beings. But certainly when we're holding snakes in general, the snake is terrified. Brown snakes are completely harmless and I find that when you pick them up they don't bite ever, and so that was kind of a good snake for her to start out with. And if you hold snakes gently, like when I do handle wild snakes for scientific purposes, I know how to handle them gently in ways that doesn't scare them as much. I'm not like grabbing them and you know, grabbing them by the head and wrestling them and stuff. I'm gently, gently lifting them up and supporting them gently, and so the snake is calm.
Jessica Bowser:I'm calm, we're all calm. I'm glad to hear you say that education is key to that, because that was a lot of what helped me get over the fear. I was never terrified of them, but, like I remember, in college I worked at Petco and one night after the store was closing I was checking on the aquariums and the big water tanks that they have under the aquariums. And I opened one up and there was a snake that was drinking out of the tank in the bottom. It was a store, you know, a pet that was for sale. They had gotten loose and found its way to the water. And I remember just like jumping back like oh my gosh, what do I do now? And somebody else had to come get it. And I remember watching somebody else just gently pick it up and carry it over and I remember thinking I would like to be able to not have that fear. You know, I would like to be able to be the person who can say okay, come on, sweetie, let's put you back where you belong.
Caroline Seitz:Look where you are now. You're my hero.
Jessica Bowser:It's two parts. One was to learn to appreciate them. But then the second part was also to have a sense of empathy, because when we're fearful of them, we're more concerned about our own feelings than about that animals. And even now I stumble across a snake when I'm hiking or whenever I'm outside. If I'm not expecting it, I still jump back and I do that with any animal, not just snakes If there's something moving and I'm not expecting it. But then I usually find myself like with my hand over my heart saying oh friend, I'm sorry, you scared me, but also not as much as I probably scared you, I can flip the script and realize that I'm the big scary thing in this situation and not the snake.
Jessica Bowser:That is exactly where it's supposed to be doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing.
Caroline Seitz:Jessica, you are so, so right about that Empathy flipping the script. That's what it's all about. Snakes are people too. They have their own little snake lives, their own little snake thoughts.
Jessica Bowser:They have their own big snake fears, and they just want to live their own life away from people, and that appreciation has led me to just really loving them and getting excited when I find one in the wild and being able to appreciate it in that moment, because you really don't see them that often and so it really makes me stop and appreciate and enjoy what I'm experiencing, and then that just brings me a little bit closer to nature every single time, absolutely.
Caroline Seitz:I love that.
Jessica Bowser:Well, Caroline, I appreciate your energy and your enthusiasm and your love for our reptiles here in Virginia and I want to thank you for sharing all of that with us today.
Caroline Seitz:And Jessica, I appreciate you having this podcast celebrating Virginia outdoor adventures. I love that you're celebrating snakes today. Could we?
Jessica Bowser:please get together and go out again, because you and I had such a good time the last time we did it and I felt like you were the snake magnet, because I don't see reptiles as much as I did when I was with you. Every time we turned a corner, there's another one, there's another one, and it was so magical.
Caroline Seitz:Let's definitely do that. This is a great time of year right now to go out and find baby snakes, and in April and May is like primo time for snakes too. Why April and May? You can actually find snakes 12 months out of the year in Virginia, but they do tend to go pretty dormant in the colder times of year November, december, january, february, march they're chilling out, they're snuggling in their little dens down in the ground. On warm days they might pop out, but once April and May comes and the warm season is back, they are full on, they're coming out, they're looking for mates, they're looking for food, and so April and May is just a great time to find snakes. But right now, like September and October also, they're on the move, looking for their places to snuggle in for the winter, and the babies are all either being born or are hatching, and so we find a lot more snakes this time of year too.
Jessica Bowser:I will be keeping my eyes open, as I always do on my next hike. All right, caroline, thank you again for being a guest on Virginia Outdoor Adventures and I hope to see you outdoors looking for reptiles again soon, I hope to see everybody outdoors looking for reptiles soon.
Caroline Seitz:Thanks so much for having me, Jessica.
Jessica Bowser:Adventure on. Don't miss part one of this two-part episode. Last week, Caroline covered how many species of snakes are native to Virginia and which are venomous, our most common species throughout the states, the difference between venomous and poisonous, and whether hikers should be concerned about encountering a snake on the trail. Virginia Outdoor Adventures is inspired by and supported by listeners like you, which is why your messages and feedback means so much to me. You can text me directly by clicking on send me a text message in your show notes. I answer questions, respond to comments and share your feedback on the show. Never miss an update. Get even more information and inspiration by signing up for my newsletter. Click on newsletter, sign up in your show notes or visit Virginia outdooradventurescom. Thanks for listening. Until next time. Adventure on.
