Understanding Fear, Part 4: Courage in Spite of Fear

What if fear isn’t weakness… but wisdom?

In this powerful episode of Genesis the Podcast, Maria MacMullin sits down with Genesis CEO Jan Langbein to unpack a truth we don’t talk about enough:
for women experiencing abuse, fear is not an overreaction—it’s a signal.

A signal that something isn’t safe.
A signal that control is taking hold.
A signal that it’s time to listen.

Together, they explore how fear shows up long before physical violence, why it’s so often dismissed by others, and how that dismissal can deepen isolation and self-doubt. But this conversation doesn’t stop there.

It also reveals something extraordinary:
fear can be the beginning of courage.

Through real stories from Genesis, you’ll hear how women—while still afraid—take brave, life-changing steps toward safety, healing, and hope. Because bravery isn’t the absence of fear… it’s what we do in spite of it.

💜 If you’ve ever questioned your instincts, this episode is for you.
💜 If you want to better support someone who may be afraid, this episode is for you.
💜 And if you believe we must do better at listening, believing, and responding to domestic violence—this episode is for all of us.

Transcript

Why Fear Deserves Respect

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Continuing our conversation about the experience of fear, Jan Langbein, CEO of Genesis Women's Shelter and Support, joins the show to share insights about how fear can be helpful, can inspire bravery, and when and how survivors can seek support. In her more than 30 years of leadership at Genesis, Jan has a deep understanding of how domestic violence can instill fear in women and children. She has also witnessed remarkable courage and bravery by survivors in the face of abuse and adversity, and the transformation possible through personalized care that begins when we believe her. I'm Maria McMullen, and this is Genesis the Podcast. Thank you. I'm so excited that you are here to participate in this series because we've been talking about fear over the past few weeks on Genesis the Podcast. And we've covered a lot of ground from the neurological processing of fear, typical responses like fight, flight, freeze, and fawn to options for personal safety and situational awareness. And we try to offer all of this information within the context of domestic violence because it is unique and most often an experience that is inflicted upon women. And today we can kind of recap some of our previous episodes here for a minute with an understanding of those experiences of fear because when women in abusive relationships feel afraid, they're often told they're overreacting. And I know that I talked about this with at least one or two of the previous guests on the show. Can you tell us what that messaging gets wrong?

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Well, I think it gets the whole thing wrong, to be real honest. But if we can kind of step back a minute, when I think of fear, there's a man who wrote a book, his name is Gavin De Becker, and he is an American security specialist and guards everything from politicians to stars and rock band people, whatever. But he this gift of fear that he wrote was very good with regards to fear in the general population, meaning you're getting on an elevator and just something gives you the eggs and you don't know whether to go on and get on, or you have a date with a guy that just all of a sudden feels really super creepy to you. What Gavin De Becker didn't get was the point that you just made when you're in an abusive relationship, because there's history there. This isn't a one-time I felt iggy getting on the elevator. This is living in fear every single day. I know you've had Jordan Lawson on here many times and she's so amazing, but she talks about the impact on the brain with regards to fear and how the prefrontal cortex disconnects and the brain is taken over by the amygdala. She gives the example, though, of a smoke alarm. A smoke alarm that is going off in your head all the time. Your amygdala has no idea if that means there's popcorn that's burning or that the house is burning down. And so if you think of someone overreacting, imagine yourself in a situation where your smoke alarm in your house is going off 24-7 constantly, constantly, and with good reason. There's been a fire before. There's a history of this violence. So I think a someone who says, oh, she's just overreacting has no understanding of what it's like to live in fear, not just experience fear. We've all done that, but to actually live in fear.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah, that's the perfect way to kind of kick off this section of the series. And in fact, Jordan did kick off the whole series with a discussion about what happens in the brain and the body when we experience fear. And she used that very example. So anybody listening who didn't listen to part one, go back, listen to part one, and you can hear all about the smoke alarm theory.

Gut Instinct And Early Warning Signs

SPEAKER_01 3:50

How is fear often one of the earliest signals that something in a relationship is not safe?

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Well, abusive relationships start out like normal relationships. No woman that I know of is going to get involved with somebody she knows that is abusive, right? And so it comes on very sweet and calm and you know, romantic and but there's somewhere along the line that our gut instinct tells us something's wrong. And I don't know if when Jordan was talking about the biology of it, she talked about the impact or the connection between the gut, that phrase, did she?

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Yeah, we talked about intuition, intuition and how we instinctively know something's off. We may not know why.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Well, that's just it. Uh going back to a woman living in a violent relationship, she is afraid that if she doesn't have dinner on the table at a certain time, that she is going to be hurt. That's a very specific thing. But in addition to having so she does get dinner on the time, dinner on the table on time. But there's also this nebulous, vague fear of if I look wrong, if I didn't iron the shirt, what if he's in a bad mood? It's this constant neg nebulous gut feeling that something is wrong. Rarely, though, I think can we name it and claim it right off the bat. I think in all our relationships we make excuses. He didn't mean that, or I knew he was in a rush and wanted to, you know, I start trying to figure out how to make it okay again to begin with. But then again, that smoke alarm just keeps going off and keeps going off. But often we don't listen to it.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

I think I've heard you and others at Genesis and beyond talk about there's a difference between having an argument with your partner and debating something and being and just being angry, because all of us have moments when we're angry or having an argument. And there's a difference between that and actually feeling afraid when those things happen. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

A lot of times people, whether I'm testifying or just in casual conversation, people will say, Well, everybody fights, don't they? Yes. Well, when does it become abusive? What is that line in the sand? And I give examples about how, you know, my sister could call me names and hang up on me on the phone, but the thing is I'm not afraid. When my partner, my spouse, my husband, my boyfriend, um starts calling me names or is berating me or is gaslighting me into how this is all my fault, the one thing is I start to feel fear, and that's when it becomes abusive.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

And so you and I have talked in the past about what may inspire fear in you may look different to what inspires fear.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

That is such a great point. And I want to talk about sometimes how our our we can become numb to our fear, or or clients that we see at Genesis are afraid so much that they become numb. But one of the things you and I spoke about yesterday was the law against stalking someone. So with stalking, you have to it has to be more than one occasion. It can't just be he followed me home from the grocery store. It has to be more than one occasion, and the rest of that says that that a normal person would be afraid of that, right? So many times in court, um people who come in and they're testifying may have a very flat affect. They have become numb to this fear and can't even define it as I'm afraid when he does that. So when somebody says, Oh, he gave you roses, right? Well, that seems like a nice guy to give you roses, that would not cause fear in someone else, but it might in you because every time he rapes you, you get ro you get roses at your job the next day on your desk. And so what it does frighten somebody may not frighten someone else, or I've gotten so numb to it that it it might not frighten me anymore. But a reasonable person would say that really is scary.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

And in an example like that, it's easy for people who don't know the full situation to dismiss your fears. Yes. Let's talk about that a little bit. Why

Why People Dismiss Real Fear

SPEAKER_01 8:05

why might people dismiss fears of a person who's experiencing domestic violence? And this can be someone really close to them, too. It can be a family member or a really close friend.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

I think it's the same way that someone might dismiss the abuse as well, the physical abuse. The whatever's causing that fear is abusive, right? That is what scares us. And so it is dismissed as maybe it wasn't that bad, or oh, he would never do that, or he's such a nice guy, or you're making that up, or you're hysterical, or you're menopausal, or you're you have dementia. I don't know, I don't know the answer to why we can't just stop asking for more files and start believing women. It doesn't matter if it's real to you or not. If I'm afraid in my own home, that should be enough that the general public or the juries or the police officers or my best friends, my neighbors, should believe me. That's the whole point of it. If I'm afraid, why wouldn't you believe me? Why would you dismiss me?

SPEAKER_01 9:02

And when we don't believe her, it causes her to doubt herself. It's almost like gaslighting someone over their what they actually experience.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

And it further silences the person who's a victim and then it further isolates them. But what we want to do is encourage people to not be silenced and to not be isolated and to be able to reach out for help.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Right.

Getting Help Before It Escalates

SPEAKER_01 9:27

So to that point, let's talk about why it's important to seek help before abuse escalates, physical violence or a serious crisis.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Right. And this is a really tricky thing, especially when you are in that relationship. We know that domestic violence isn't an isolated thing. It doesn't happen in a linear fashion, that there's very much a cycle to a behavior of an abusive partner. Whether it whatever you call the stages, whatever you think they are, we know that if it happens once, it'll happen again. And we know that not only will it happen again, but the amount of time between the episodes will decrease and the severity will increase. So let's say the first time you felt ig, you know, are you gonna get out of that relationship? Probably not. But are there things that you can do to help mitigate that fear? Like, I I don't like it when you say that to me. Can you stand your ground then? With an abusive partner who has a who has a end goal of power and control, that probably is not gonna work. So the next time, it may be a little more, a little more violent, a little more hurtful, but if you can step back and look at that in a cyclical pattern instead of that linear isolated event, that's when he got mad, that's when he lost his job, that's when, you know, he came home drunk or whatever. That's too easy to make excuses for each one of those incidents. Whereas if we can look at this as a pattern of behavior, a choice of behavior, we know that it's not going to get better. And so to be able to seek help before it gets that bad. And that may be seek help on how to stay in that relationship or seek help about the impact on your kiddos or the impact on you emotionally and physiologically, what to expect, how to safety plan, all those kinds of things so that when it is your choice to stay or go, you will have these tools in your pocket. Yeah. So yeah, it's early detection, is what it is, Maria. It's like any DV isn't a disease. But if you think about if I can, if I think I have cancer, early detection of breast cancer is the best way to survive breast cancer. And I think this is the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Yeah, and I think, I mean, to up to this point, we're kind of really thinking about we don't want it to get to physical violence. It may it typically does not start off as physical violence. There's a lot of coercive control, there's some gaslighting, there's some isolation, financial abuse, and then it can potentially escalate into physical violence. And when it's not physical violence yet, often people will think, well, this isn't bad enough for me to reach out for help. How would you respond to that?

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Well, I do think that is part of it. Very typically, when not only do other people doubt us, we begin to doubt ourselves. Mine isn't as bad as hers, or it would have to be much worse for this to count as being abusive. So I'm doing a training out for some fire medics, 911 response folks in another set another city. And a lady came up to me at break. I'll never forget her. She said, you know, he's never hit me. That's how she starts off. He's never hit me. But what he does is when he's mad, he puts his fist through the sheetrock. Now think about that. That isn't good for his fist. That isn't good for the sheetrock. What was the goal of putting his fist through the sheetrock? Shows her that he can do that to her, to instill fear in her. But somehow she doubted that that wasn't bad enough, right? There was a movie made, if you remember that recently, M-A-I-D. Yes, yes. And, you know, he didn't physically hurt her as much as he threw plates and damaged her phone. And it's not just one thing, too, that causes the fear. It'll be a series of behaviors. That was a really good movie to look into isolation, to look into the desperation of somebody trying to survive in a domestic in a violent relationship. But you just start thinking, did I make that up? Everybody says I did.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Maybe it wasn't that bad, and maybe it was my fault, and maybe if I only dot, dot, dot. But fear can be and should be very motivating. We talk a lot, and I know you have on this podcast about the stages of change. Right. Procesca's work with regards to changing something in your life. And when we lay that over domestic violence, and we start thinking about how to get how we get out of that contemplation or pre-contemplation, fear can be very motivating. Maybe it motivates us to call a shelter and just talk to somebody in the night, right? Or maybe it's motivating me to pack a bag and just keep a go bag just in case. Or maybe fear could motivate me into building my own safety plan, whatever that looks for me, for my children. Maybe that fear could motivate me to just seek legal help on the side, pay in cash, whatever you have to do. And none of these things would have to be overt to the abuser or cause more violence because you could you could do these things, but at some point it could help save your life down the way. So fear doesn't mean stay or go, get on the elevator or don't get on the elevator. It may just give you, it may help you build the tools that could save your life down the line.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

And that's one of the reasons I wanted to do this series, and I wanted to have you on the show, is because I wanted to understand fear, what the experience, and really validate that it is a very real thing, especially when you're in an abusive relationship. It's normal to feel afraid. There are going to be typical responses, and yours might not look like that. Yours might look like fainting or nausea or just having chronic headaches, right? When you are in a state of chronic fear. But I wanted people to know that yes, this happens, but it also doesn't have to be the end of the experience. Correct. It can inspire courage, acts of bravery, the ability to rise up and decide that you want something different. And to that point, I want to say when you're ready. I mean, not everyone is ready at the same time. And bravery or courage doesn't look the same for everyone. It's a very personal experience.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

So

Fear Used As A Weapon

SPEAKER_02 15:47

if I may jump in on this, right where we're talking about this, I also think that we think in terms of fear being the stuff that he's doing makes me afraid. But I don't think the stuff that he's doing is random. I think it's a choice of weapon. When we talk about abusers who strangle and the difference between abusers who do not strangle, we know that they're number one, more deadly. The potential of death is much higher. But that it becomes this choice of weapon to not say I'm going to kill you, but that I can kill you. I think fear is a choice of weapon that keeps the status quo. Yeah. I don't have to scream at you as long as I just give you the look and I instill fear in you. That's all I have to do. And it it actually makes it easier for the abuser not to have accountability. In other words, I didn't touch her, I didn't lay a hand on her. I just asked her what time dinner, you know, and she freaks out over all of this. But there's a history there, and there's it's it's I think it's used as an intentional weapon.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

I could not argue with that. I think that it keeps people, uh, if you keep someone afraid enough, they'll feel that their life is threatened or their children's lives are threatened, or even their pets, yes. Are in a dangerous place with their lives being threatened?

SPEAKER_02 17:06

I remember a client who who called me and was telling me the story. He said he isn't gonna kill her. He's gonna kill her parents, and she was extremely close to her parents. I've heard the lady who, you know, he picked up the family cat and slit its throat and threw it on the wall and said, if you ever leave, that's what happens to you. Now, are you a pet person? Are you a cat person? That was intentional. That that act of I'm gonna hurt your cat was very intentional with regards to instilling fear and accomplishing what he wants accomplished. And I don't mean just dinner on the table. I mean you're not gonna tell anybody, you're not gonna leave.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Those examples you just gave are acts of terrorism, right? They are to terrify, terrorize a person to make them do whatever you want. And that's where we land on power and control. Right. He has absolute control over her because she's terrified.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Right. Yeah. No, instilling fear is very effective. Doesn't have to do anything else. All you have to say is I'm gonna hurt I'm gonna hurt your parents. Right. And that's it.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

I'll do whatever, right? Right, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, there are options though, however, I don't want people to believe that there aren't any options there that for sure you know threats of that nature can be reported to authorities. There are lots of things you can do to mitigate that. But for we're just using these as examples that I know you've seen and heard at Genesis in the past 30 plus years. Yeah. So these are these are not fiction fiction. They're real. Right. These are things that have happened. I want to talk a little bit now about how we talk about fear and why that matters. What

Words That Shame Versus Support

SPEAKER_01 18:44

would you say are some common phrases that unintentionally shame women for being afraid?

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Well, I think minimizing anything that is a minimization, like you can't mean that. You can't it's hard to believe that he would do that. Or maybe you need maybe you need to see a doctor and get some medication to calm your nerves, right? And when I say calm your nerves, I don't mean being scared of someone. You know, just that I'm a nervous. Because you're hysterical. You're hysterical. Exactly, exactly. In fact, I think the word hysteria comes from the phrase, the root word that's the same as uterus. And when women would become hysterical, they'd rip out their uterus, hoping that that would calm her down a little bit, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

I think I think one of my least favorite is and who are told, well, you should pray on that.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Well, I agree, I agree. If your faith were stronger, if you, you know, Jesus suffered, you should suffer. If you could be a better wife, a Proverbs 31 wife. There are a lot of times that is a choice of weapon as well. And unfortunately, people may use phrases or quote scripture or whatever that can actually extend the abuse, can enhance the abuse, and can certainly side with the abuser, right? So if my faith and community is my faith community is important to me, first of all, the police officer didn't believe me, right? And my faith community is like, hey, I'm not a good enough Christian wife, and my family is like, oh, you were so lucky to be married to this wonderful guy, then why should I try? Why should I? Nobody's gonna believe me. I think the language that we use that just normalizes those kinds of things is very, very dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

It is very dangerous. So let's talk about how trauma-informed supportive language uh what would that sound like and how could that be more helpful?

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Well, I think trauma-informed supportive language ought to be trauma-informed, right? We ought to be able to say it like she can hear it, without judgment, without making any kind of, you know, determination on our own that we know better. I think you can hear stories, you can hear her fear, and you can say, you know what, that's very scary. I've talked to women on our hotline, on our helpline, that have really flat affects and have, you know, like, yes, he slashed my tires, yes, he put dead roses on my car seat. And you know what? I I go ahead and step up and say, that is very scary. I'm really afraid for you because what I know is. Now that's not a clinical approach to it, but that's a CEO approach to it. Right. Where I can say, you know, Maria, this is really serious, and I'm afraid for you. I think when we can respond, even if there are no visible injuries, that we can respond just as if there were. You know, why would that make you going back to stalking? Why would roses on the front seat make you afraid? Or the sign signs that he's been in my house, that's another choice of fear-mongering that we see is that, you know, she'll come home from work and there's maybe the sofa is moved to the other side of the room. Or we've seen, I've heard stories of people who have a what they call a smart house, codes to everything, yeah, and he'll Turn off the refrigerator while she's at work and all the food has gone bad, right? Then she's thinking, did I leave the door open? Did I? So again, it's that self-doubt that self-doubt. It's gaslighting without any words, right? But I would say the same thing to you if you told me, I'm afraid, as if you came in and you had a black eye. I would say, I believe you. I would say this is very scary. I'd say this is extremely dangerous. And let's safety plan. There is help. There is hope. There are things we can do to mitigate the actions that cause the fear. Now, can I ever do something that all of a sudden I'm just not afraid? Can I go to enough counseling that now I'm not afraid of anything? Absolutely not. Because this guy can jump out of the bushes tomorrow, 10 years from now, right? And this is always hanging over my head. So I don't know that we can mitigate the fear itself, but we can mitigate some of the things that cause the fear. That's and some of them are drastic, like I have to move away, I have to change my phone, I have to, you know, pull my kids out of that school or my that childcare. But it can reduce the opportunity for someone to instill fear. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 23:09

It does make sense. And and I just uh, you know, and back to the point again when I have all these conversations, the onus is on the victim. Aaron Powell Well, isn't that a shame again, right? Isn't that a shame again? It is. It drives me crazy because she has to prove it. Right. She has to defend it. She has to defend her own actions, and then she has to make all of the adjustments in her life in order to live without the fear of some of the things that could be a consequence for her. And I I point that out only as this this whole thing is upside down. You know, it should, it should not be that way. The abuser should be the one who takes responsibility. The abuser is the one who really needs the therapy. Right. And as well as people who experience trauma, and not that that isn't important, but it's it's unfair and it is our reality. But Genesis has responses for a lot of those things. Right. Right. We have counseling, clinical counseling, we have advocacy. We have so much at Genesis to respond to those fears and to help people move forward with carriage.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Right. I know you all have talked about this before, but the answer is not, hey, go to a shelter. It is an answer, but it's not the only answer. And that's why our presence with our non-residential center, the counseling, the s the advocacy, the access to civil legal representation, those are so important, whether you have the black eye or you're living in a constant state of fear, or you know, you have been sexually assaulted, whatever it is, it's the same response. It's a trauma-informed response without any cost, without any judgment, that people can come and sit and say, I am terrified. Maria, we've heard stories at Genesis where he knows he's tracking her because he just has all the information all day long about where she's been and what time she picked up the kids and so on. But she was so convinced. I remember one woman who was so convinced that he could track her through her purse. Does that make sense? I don't think so. But track her through her purse that the very way the session would start was that purse went in a file cabinet locked down the hall.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

And so then she can maybe begin to tell and then maybe begin to heal. So it's those kinds of things. It's it's what people you think would be afraid of, and then a whole lot more.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah, and it's uh it's what people refer to as, and this is not trauma-informed language, and I use it only as kind of a colloquial example. It's called crazy making. Absolutely. And nothing sums it up better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Right. So then you add into that the physical abuse and the sexual abuse, and I'm afraid all the time. And my kids cry themselves to sleep at night, and he won't let me work, and I have no money, and I have no place to go if I did get out. So all of that, and and Jordan is so great about all of this when she talks about it's a giant size pizza that we expect a woman to be able to eat all at once, right? But if we at Genesis can divide that, slice that pizza up and say, okay, let's first talk about getting you into some emotional support, or let's get you some child care so you can get a job, or let's see about independent living or financial independence. And a place like Genesis can actually help cut those slices, cut that pizza into thin slices to where they are digestible, and we can see women begin to take a step. But I think society particularly thinks we can swallow that whole pizza all at once. Yeah, get back on your feet. Get on your feet, quit griping about it, quit overreacting. And it's it's impossible. And if a normal person realized I couldn't do it, why am I expecting you to do it, right? Um But places like Genesis can help take those baby steps at a time.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

So we've talked a lot about fear. We've

Bravery Stories From Genesis

SPEAKER_01 27:12

talked a lot about trying to overcome it, but I know over the years, the decades, with your in your time at Genesis, you've probably seen a lot of acts of great courage. Do you want to share any any of those with us?

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Aaron Powell Well, I would. I mean, there's one that just has touched my life forever. But you know, when we talk about bravery, I don't think bravery is the absence of fear. I think it is the presence of fear, but still acting in spite of that fear, right? Yeah. So I remember a woman who came to Genesis. I actually got to answer the front door, and there she was. I didn't know anything about her at the time. But she had come from down in the valley, almost close to Mexico, I guess. And she had been living out in a rural part of that community on purpose, right? Yeah. I don't, I think at some points she did not have running water. He would pay the bill or not pay the bill. And every day when he would leave for work, he would take the spark plugs out of the car. And so she was trapped in that house with her kiddos, right? One way, one place she he would allow her to go, allow, I love this word, is to go do the laundry at a washateria in town. And he'd count out the money and give her the money to go do the laundry, and she would double stuff the machines, keep some of that change, put talk about bravery, put that change in a coffee can and bury it in the yard. And this went on for I don't know how long. But the day came, the day finally came that he did not take the spark plugs out of the car. She stuck a pie in the oven hoping he would think she's coming right back, right? She throws those kids in the in the car and starts driving north on I-35 of life, right? Using those coins, that was her gas money. And it she had enough coins and gas money to make it to Dallas, Texas, and ended up on the front porch of Genesis Women's Shelter and Support. She lived there in our emergency shelter with her kids. We got our kids in, got her kids in school. They were high elementary or junior high in a one high school, one high school child. She goes downtown to El Centro and says, I want to take a course to be a paralegal. They said, Well, you'll have to take a prep course. And she goes, No, I just want to take the test today. No, no, you have to take a prep course. She says, Let me just take the course the test today and see how I do. She gave the kids a dollar apiece, they went and had a soda, she passed that test. She ended up working in a law firm in downtown Dallas while she was with Genesis, and then she ended up applying to Habitat for Humanity. She didn't just have a roof over her head. She and her children built a roof over her head. I will never forget her. She invited me out actually after the house had been dedicated for lunch one Saturday afternoon. Yeah. And one child was in California in college. One was an architect because actually they lived there when we were building our transitional housing. It is an amazing scene. Oh, I I got a million of them. Okay, keep going, keep going. That's what I've seen in 30 years. But um, this young boy who was one one of her sons was so fascinated with the building of our transitional housing while that was going on that he ended up wanting to be an architect. But it it just is that all Genesis? No. Is that all her? No. And I I don't know how else to say it except it was a God thing. But because of her bravery, she knew she had suffered incredible abuse, but she knew that there would be a day that she would grab that coffee can full of change and drive as far as she possibly could. Now, imagine the fear of that act. Is he fixing to come home? Is he fixing to walk in? Am I gonna pass him on 35? Am I gonna pass him on 35 and he makes a U-turn? Am I gonna live through today, basically? Right. They may have had to sleep in their car one day before they got to Dallas, if I'm remembering this correctly. But what what bravery do I see in the midst of this? I think it's courageous that women can pick up the phone and call and say, I need help.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

I think that one phrase is very, very hard. I think it's hard because you have to admit you need help, right? That can be embarrassing, that can be very dangerous. What if what if they tell him? What if what if that when I call the police, he you know, plays darts with my husband and is going to tell him that, right? Or maybe what the fear might be. Think of this analogy. If you suspect a medical issue, how scared are you to go and make that appointment? Because what you might find the response is gonna be a bad diagnosis, right? Right. And so do you just put it off? You just put it off. I mean, I that analogy makes sense to me because I think again, it's very scary to have to say, I need help, or I need a mammogram, or I need an appointment, or whatever. But but the back to the bravery, it's not the absence of those things. It is I'm going to get that mammogram in spite of what I think that might the result might be, if that if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

It does make sense. And I think it's it's just incredible that women can even walk through the door at Genesis. And we see over 3,000 women and children do that all year long. Just come into Genesis or more than 20,000 people call our helpline every year.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Isn't that incredible?

SPEAKER_01 32:42

Make a call to say, I have questions, I think I'm in an abusive relationship, I need help. And so we see we see fear every day, but we see bravery.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Incredible courage. Incredible courage. Just to tip your toe in the water and pick up the phone, 214-946-HELP. Even in our name. That's what we do. That's what we do, and there is help and there is hope available. So I, you know, this we talk about these things on this podcast, but I want anybody who's listening, who's afraid in their own relationship, who's afraid in their own home, whose children's cro whose children cry themselves to sleep at night, understand they're not alone, right? We do believe clients who call and tell us he hurt the cat or, you know, he turned off my refrigerator. As strange as that may seem to just somebody walking around, we believe it. And we are there to hear and help and listen. Yeah.

How Others Can Reduce Fear

SPEAKER_02 33:40

You know, there's it's it can't just be on us though, Maria. Um, you and I had a chat about what other people can do to help alleviate that fear. And one of the examples, we had a guest speaker, Jackson Katz, several years ago, and he was talking about the fear just because we're women, where we park, how we hold our keys at night. We're, you know, do we park next to a van at North Park when we're pulling into a parking place? We don't, we're under lights. All the things we're guarding our drink, we're sticking nail polish in there to see if it turns a different color. All the things that we live with. He asked the men, he said they were talking that he was talking to the women and asking them, What are you afraid of? And well, we're afraid we're scared of getting raped in the parking lot of whatever. He asked the men, what you know, where do you think you might be raped? And all they could think of was in prison. I mean, they could it was never a conscious thing that I have to hold my keys or walk in the door. And one guy turned to me, he says, You think about that? I said, We think about that all the time. Yeah. All the time. Where am I? Is my head on a swivel? Am I paying attention? Anyway, he went on to say, Well, so guys, if you know that, if you know that, that that I'm scared probably most of the time, what can you do about it? So he gave the the example of, let's say I'm walking my dog at 10 o'clock at night. I live in a great neighborhood, I'm safe there, relatively speaking. Sure. But I'm walking and all of a sudden I see a guy down the block heading my direction. I don't know him, I don't, I don't see a dog with him, I don't know where he's why he's there, I don't see think he's a neighbor of mine. This is all going through my head. The guy has is not giving it a second thought, right? But he sees me down the block. Go ahead and cross to the other side of the street and walk on by. If you know I'm in that turmoil, then give me a break, right? And uh you cross the street. Now, because I'd already thought, well, I'm gonna have to turn around, I'm gonna have to cross the street, I'm gonna have to do these things. I would love to have the chance to say to, of course, the women who are listening, but especially men, and I want to ask the question, what could you do to help alleviate, to help mitigate the fears that women have, the what how we live every single day, what could you do to help lessen those fears?

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Jen, thank you so much for talking with me today.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Genesis

Genesis Resources And Helpline

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Women's Shelter and Support exists to give women in abusive situations a way out. We are committed to our mission of providing safety, shelter, and support for women and children who have experienced domestic violence and to raise awareness regarding its cause, prevalence, and impact. Join us in creating a societal shift on how people think about domestic violence. You can learn more at Genesis Shelter.org and when you follow us on social media, on Facebook and Instagram at Genesis Women's Shelter, and on X at Genesis Shelter. The Genesis Helpline is available twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, by call or text at 214 946 HELP. 214 946 4357.