The Finance Bible

#86 Workplace Red Flags - Part 1

• Zeke Guenthroth and Oscar Don

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Is your job satisfaction dwindling, but you can't quite put your finger on why? Join us as we uncover the subtle signs that scream workplace toxicity. Through personal stories and real-life examples, we discuss the telltale signs of a stagnant role and how it can erode your mental health and career growth. We'll tackle the tough decisions around leaving a seemingly secure job and offer strategies to assess whether your company is truly progressing.

Shifting gears, we dive into the damaging cycle of overworking and constant dissatisfaction that can bleed into your personal life. Learn why staying late to appear dedicated often backfires and how to maintain a balanced work-life dynamic. Plus, we’ll break down the importance of a structured interview process as a key indicator of a healthy workplace culture. Join us for an episode brimming with insights and anecdotes designed to help you navigate the complexities of your work environment.

For any enquiries or to connect with Oscar, Zeke, or their company, Asset Road, listeners can visit the following links:

The advice shared on The Finance Bible is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. The Finance Bible exists purely for educational / entertainment purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome back to another episode of the Finance Fireball podcast. Zeke here and your co-host, oscar. But before we get into it, please note that nothing in this podcast should ever be considered as personal financial advice. Of course, if that is what you are seeking, reach out. We'll get you in touch with the correct professionals. Get the job done properly, sit back, relax and enjoy the show.

Speaker 1:

Let's get into it Today. Joined with Oscar, as usual, and we're just going to be talking. Who else would you be joined by? We might have a special guest. True, we're just going to talk about a little bit of a fun topic in terms of workplace toxicity.

Speaker 1:

So you know you're out there. You might not be enjoying your work, or you might be enjoying it and not recognize a couple of red flags, couple of red flags. I'm just going to jump straight into it and say anyone out there who is in a workplace that sounds like what we're going to discuss or a few points we'll bring up. Then you might need to just take a step back and go hang on a minute. Am I in the red flag work zone? The problem is, if you're in it, it's like a toxic relationship as well. You don't really know you're in it until you're out of it. So, by bringing up these red flags if any of them actually resemble and make you think twice about it, being like, oh yeah, that actually sounds like a day in my life. Well, perhaps it is time to really look at yourself in the mirror and say, unfortunately, I'm in this situation. Yeah, and they, they can obviously be a bit bit hard to get out of as well, because, you know, leaving your job after two or three or four years or yeah, especially if you've been there for a while and you think it's stable, you've got a family, it's paying the bills, but if it's really cooking with your, your drive and your mental health when you're trying to go to work, it's is it really worth it? Yeah, I don't know, probably probably not. So we're.

Speaker 1:

This will be broken down into a few parts, because we're going to be talking all over the shop. There will be, you know, how to identify it, ways to get out of it, um, and just basically a bunch of stories, even, yes, a little bit of storytelling of our own experience. Yes, many, many different stories, and even just from friends and family and whatnot, because I think everyone's actually kind of had their own experience in the past. Oh, absolutely, but we'll just start off, I'll just throw one out there and then you can go on as well. Yeah, let's go.

Speaker 1:

I think one of the main ones is if you go to a workplace and you just started, you meet some colleagues and you say, oh, what's your position in the company? If people, let's say if two people have been in the same role for around two years, I feel like that's a red flag, okay. So you're saying like, if you've walked in there and someone's a sorry, a generic, let's just say an admin assistant, admin assistant Okay, and they've been doing that for two years, yep, and you're going, okay, there's no growth here, that could be a red flag, yeah. But if there's one other person who's got a different role, let's say like, let's just say, sales executive, and they obviously want to be a manager down the track, if they've been in that role for two years as well, that's kind of like all right, well, we got two different roles, both of them haven't moved in two years. Yes, ultimately, if they're kind of that, does that mean I'm not going to move in two years? So if they're wanting to move and they're still there, or just in general, they're wanting to move yeah, okay, or even if, if they haven't even been asked for a promotion or try to figure out their path, because everyone well, actually not everyone, I don't want to say everyone, but generally speaking like if you go for a job or an entry-level job, it's kind of your foot in the door. You kind of want to start and then leapfrog, leapfrog, leapfrog to make the top.

Speaker 1:

So I just would have thought people, they don't want to be in the same position for two years. Yeah, I completely agree with that. I got friends, family, who have been in the job for less than 12 months and there's no progression. They're just wanting to go somewhere else with a lot more progression. And it makes sense because you just get bored and it's just shit. Yeah, even my well, not my first job, it was like probably actually my third or fourth job. But my job at the banking company was, yeah, probably six months in and then I got promoted. You should have the opportunity to do that and if you're not, or if you don't have the opportunity, then that is a red flag.

Speaker 1:

And also, if people aren't getting promoted and there is no progression, is a company progressing? That's a big one to look at. Yeah, yeah, if you're not moving up and like you're good at your job, you know what you're doing, you're a clear standout in terms of other people and looking at whether you know KPIs or just the amount of work you get done, or you notice that clients are tending to come to you more than other people, it's a lot easier to figure out as well. If the company is progressing and it's a smaller company, like if you, it's a lot easier to figure out as well if the company is progressing. If it's a smaller company, if you're working for a big five or something like that, it can be hard because there's so many employees and then the top of the top you're never going to really meet face-to-face. Yeah, if it's like a small company of 10, 15 people and you're with the actual director every single day, even with their mood, you'll get an understanding.

Speaker 1:

If they come in stressed and freaking out and sweating and everything, you try to get an understanding that things aren't looking that good, yeah, and you, ultimately, if, if you're in a position where you want to progress and you're just not feeling that opportunity but you really want to, like you might have been there for, you know, between 12 months and two years, and you're sitting there just going well, I want to, I'm better than just an admin person, or I'm better than just this, or whatever and you feel like you deserve to be moving up and you're not, and you've had that conversation or trying to then, yeah, that's probably probably red flag number one. I'd say, yeah, um, and then it does go deeper, as we just said. You know, is there a problem with the company at that point? And then you need to kind of take a further step back and go all right, well, where is the company heading, who's in these positions and how do they perform and what's been happening. And then you can get a pretty good indication of you know, you'll go to a company and you'll be working there and you'll think, oh, yeah, it's pretty good. And then your blinders come off and you notice that the person above you is actually just hopeless. Yeah, they do nothing, yeah, and you're like, okay, each tier, there's always bumps. Yeah, like people that are just terrible at their job, and you're thinking, how are you there? And then, if there's enough of them, then you know the company's not going anywhere.

Speaker 1:

That brings me on to another red flag. This one I'm going to call bickering, yes, and gossiping, and gossiping and gossiping, yes. Let's just say the classic kitchen lunch break dilemma yes, so you go on your lunch break yay lunch break, and you walk into the kitchen or whatever you have you might have a lounge or just like a designated room for your break, or whatever. You might jump outside or you might go for a quick smoke or whatever you do and everyone's out there just complaining about work, just complaining something that happened this morning. Yeah, that's a very good indication if you're always out there venting or everyone around you is venting, whether it be about the actual work, whether it be about a boss, whether it be about you know a bunch of clients being dissatisfied, whether it be about a boss, whether it be about you know a bunch of clients being dissatisfied, whether it be about the company or procedures or anything else. I don't know if you want to throw any more in there.

Speaker 1:

So generally, if that's going on every single day, you're in a bad, bad place. Like you'd be surprised how many people sit down and you know, on their lunch break they spend the whole break just complaining. Just oh stuff, this stuff, that, or this guy's a fool, that guy's a twat. And three months later it's the same thing. Four, five, six months, exact same a year later.

Speaker 1:

But if you left a year ago, you, you sit there, go well, why am I still here? Why didn't I leave a year ago? You probably will leave, but you've wasted a whole year. And then you probably get home and then talk smack to your partner or whoever you live, with your parents about what happened today at work, and then it just ruins your life, because then you wake up in the morning and you're like, oh no, I've got to go back and see this and this is going to happen again today. This sucks again today, this sucks. And then you, your mood's just horrible and you're literally waiting for a friday afternoon to hit so you can have two days off and then start the cycle again. Yeah, and that gets horrible.

Speaker 1:

That can create huge friction too, like I've. I've seen friends and family and positions like exactly like what I'm talking about right now, and they'd come home every day and oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know this guy's an idiot, doesn't know how to do his job, and you know they're trying to tell me this and tell me that, but then they're doing this and that and it's like, well, why don't you just leave? Like, yeah, and every time I say, oh, it's not that bad, you're like, well, you've been coming home complaining for the last year, it's not going to change, just just get out of there. Oh, yeah, but it's not. You know, it's not serious enough that I need to leave.

Speaker 1:

But no, it is like, if you're, if it's taking over your life that much, yeah, every single night, get out of there. I'm not going to sit here and listen to you for an hour every single day for the rest of my life. Yeah, wow. But yeah, no, kitchen kitchen antics, lunch break gossip uh, remember, our kitchen antics are great. Oh, mate, we used to duck off in the evening, not even lunch break, we just used to duck off just for a little breather. Yeah, coffee break 10 times a day I reckon more, yeah, but yeah, every place I've worked at you can get a vibe of, like, what's going on in the company just through what's happening in the break room and it's so clear, like, especially if it's your first day. Yeah, yeah, it can be a bit.

Speaker 1:

Uh, just go there with ease, yeah, and then you've obviously got to take a take a bit of a reframe as well. Like you know, if you've just been introduced to it, don't instantly go. Oh well, this person's complaining it must be toxic and I've got to get out of here before I start. Get it. Get a bit of an objectified approach, like you know you've. You've got to have a subjective view and look at it, understand it, because I've also seen people in really good workplaces where you'll be chilling on your lunch break, having the time of your life, and there'll be three people in the back corner just bickering about their own problems. That they're, they're actually the problem in the situation and everyone else is loving life, but they're just the the three employees that I would personally fire. So there's always some, yeah. So you gotta, you gotta watch out for that too.

Speaker 1:

The next one which I love is when overworking is praised. So good if you stay late tonight, stay till 10 o'clock, you know. So good if you've got to work extra hours to make more money, like just pushing into overwork I don't know about. Well, I do know about you, but other people. Like for myself, if I've got work to do, it'll literally take me like half a day to do it, and then I've done everything I need. I can go on time like if I'm working for a, for a company, I'll all I'm going to do is just the set hours, the minimum requirement, do my work and then leave. Like as long as I'm doing a good job and making hitting your tape, guys, during that time, there's no need to stay after hours. Yeah, I know what you mean.

Speaker 1:

You're saying if you've got a set amount of tasks that you need to get done, you've got X amount of work sitting there that needs to be done, you just smash it up, you just do it, and then, if anything else comes up, you'll do it, but you're not going to go out of your way to find stuff. No, else comes up, you'll do it, but you're not going to go out of your way to find stuff. Right, yeah, and you're not going to sit, sit there until 9 pm going well, just because the boss thinks it's a good look if you're there later. Yeah, when, even if you're there, if you come earlier, because, like I remember early days, I used to want to get to the office early to beat the boss and be seen the first time they're like an hour before everyone else gets there and then be the last one there as well, like the first two months or three months. I was always doing that. But then it's just like what for? Like it's just if you do everything you need to do. Plus if you're in a sales role, you're doing your sales. Like you may have meetings after hours, but you know you can do them at home or go to the client's house.

Speaker 1:

Today's the day and age. A lot of people are praising overworking and everyone burns out. Yeah, if it's one where you're like you're clocking in and clocking out, always get there like a good 10 minutes early and then set up everything and then come in and clock on at your exact time and clock off at your exact time, like hands down, being early is being on time every single time, like never actually be late to something like that. But in what you're saying is in a role where it's not a clocking system, it's sort of salary work. You know you're rocking up and you're being seen in a role where it's not a clocking system, it's sort of salary work. You know you're rocking up and you're being seen, and you know you being seen is you being like heard, like you actually recognise he's here, he's doing something, and then you're praised for it, but then there's no reward. Exactly right, yeah. And then if you stay later, there's still no reward, really Just the praise mate, yeah. And then if you stay later, there's still no reward, really Just the praise mate, yeah, but it's not something you want to do, like it's a bad habit to get in.

Speaker 1:

We had someone at our old workplace who was there at 4 am till literally 2 am. Like I'm not taking the piss. 4 am till 2 am yeah, just loved it. Well, he said he loved it but hated it. Yeah, it's a bit odd that one. Yeah, it's very odd. That's just not healthy.

Speaker 1:

And the thing we're not out here saying don't be a hard worker, because absolutely like in all of my roles, I've always done probably been one of the standout performers. Not trying to sound like that is so funny, I know I'm not trying to sound like a dickhead easily. I have been. I've had the best scores in everything. I've had the best results in terms of percentages have been the best. I've been promoted everywhere. I've been a good employee. But I'm still not going to be going an hour early just to be seen and staying an hour late to be seen. I'm there, I'm going to show up, I'm going to do my work, I'm going to put my best foot forward and then I'm going to get out of there and enjoy my life. Yeah, well, that's how it should be. Yeah, it's.

Speaker 1:

I'm not all about this and this um, stay back late kind of thing, or come in early kind of thing, and like going home early or coming in late. But then some people love it, like, yeah, you see some mates on a Friday night and then one of them is running an hour and a half, two hours late because they stay back at work. Yeah, and they kind of want you to ask him oh, you stay back at work. They want you to say, oh, that's awesome, like that's it. He says, yeah, I had so much work to do, I had to get it done. Oh, that's admirable. It's like oh, mate, what are you talking about? Yeah, like what, how do you make anything work? So there's been times where I've been at work at 4am, but that's because I'm doing something and then I'm going home at like'll still get all my work done. But yeah, we used to get our work done within an hour and we had nothing to do for seven hours.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, there is also that, yeah, if you're, if you're finding yourself as well, sitting there on the clock, getting paid, going, what am I doing? Like you? Sort of just sitting there like, well, I've done like what I need to today. As I I said, if someone comes up you'll do it, but there's actually nothing for you to actively do unless you're going to go searching through God knows what to find work or go clean up like take the rubbish out or something. I don't know. Why are you there? Something needs to be rearranged at that point. And you're going to be sitting there, bored, going. Why are you there? This is just terrible, get me out of here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, the first couple of times you might be like, oh, this is mad, I don't have to do anything. But then soon you're going to be sitting there going, all right. Well, I've been working probably one hour for the last three weeks. It's 15 days of one hour. What have the other seven by 15 been doing nothing? Well, you can get a lot of stuff done in seven times by 15, can't you? You can, you can dude. What's another red flag? Interview processes. Oh, I love an interview process.

Speaker 1:

I feel like if you're having an interview with a company. If they have a set let's say three interview process or two interview process, like you know what's happening, they give the outline. That is a good indicator that they've actually got a process. It's professional, you know what's happening, you know who you're going to be meeting if you get to the next stage, that's a good indicator. I think if that happens, you know you're going to be, you're going to an actual good, professional company who will work hard, look you, etc. But for those companies who literally just have a phone call or you got one little interview and then they hire you straight away and it's a bit iffy, like I've had a couple of those before, like I've had one phone call and then, like I get a contract sent through, I'm like what, like what, like I'll take it, but like what, yeah, and then you get there and then a month later you're wanting to leave. People have had that. But yeah, interview processes do or die. Even the questions they ask in interview processes can be a bit dicey. Yeah, it can be a big indicator. The whole process there is extremely indicative of what's to come, like series, extremely indicative of what's to come like.

Speaker 1:

I'm just thinking all the best jobs I had were formal. Well, actually, not even I don't want to say that word. They were like professional. Yeah, there's an actual process like you know. You even just saying mac, it's you know, rock up.

Speaker 1:

You have like the one-on-one or the group interview you, you do a bit of this and that, and then I think it was a two-interview process. I think it was. You had the interview, you had the group interview and then you were in and the group one was to see how you sort of interact with like other people, how you work as a team, and the individual one was to see like, okay, who are you Like, what are you doing? Blah, blah, blah and blah blah, and that that's literally like 13 year olds, and that interview process was actually good. Um, my next job from there that I enjoyed or that was good, was, again, you had a one-on-one interview, um to see an idea of who you are, and then it was followed by a panel interview and then in the training um, after like one day of doing training and stuff, they identified people that they didn't think would fit as well. So that was cool. But yeah, I found the I've done a fair few interviews in my time as well, like, as in interviewing other people, there's that.

Speaker 1:

But in other roles, like proper process ones, like not just, you know, sitting down and asking them who they are and stuff and why they want to work there, things like that and yeah, again, the best ones were like I had an actual goal in mind of what I was trying to get out of them to see if they should work there. The ones where it was just sitting down having a chat and figuring out who they are weren't really the best ones. So, yeah, an interview process is extremely indicative into what the company is like, what their processes are and then that sort of shows in the work that gets done and where they're going. Yeah, if the interview process is no good, they're probably not having good process for anything else. Yeah, because it's probably the easiest process to actually correct for an interview, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And if they're the thing that I get a bit annoyed about interviews now, like the way they're done does annoy me, like I hate some of the questions that they ask, like they're all asking the same thing oh, tell me a time where you were under pressure, under pressure, and you overcame it? Yeah, you overcame it. Yeah, you overcame it like anyone can make up some bullcrap story. And then I decided this should be the way to get through it. Yeah, oh, but I checked with my manager first, because I can't make a decision like good, shut up, you know all of those ones.

Speaker 1:

Oh, why do you want to work for our company? Specifically like looking for you to suck the suck up to them, like, oh, this company is a multimillion-dollar company that does blah, blah, blah and I really like your products and I love to consume your food or drink your drink or whatever, and I just it would be a delight to work here. I'm like, done, yeah, like, sure, ask those questions, but do it in a way where it's more like it's actually asking a question. Don't go oh, why do you want to work for our company? And try to get that answer, try to get it as okay. Why do you actually want to work with us? Like, you know, what do you think you'll get out of this? And if they come back with you, with you, oh, a career and, um, you know, I see great promotion here because it's such a great company.

Speaker 1:

No, that's not what we're asking. We're asking what do you actually want out of this? What are your goals. How can we help you get there? Yes, are you trying to build a family? You're trying to do your life goals? What's the flexibility like for you? Like, how are we actually going to timeline? Yeah, like we want to know how we're, how we can help you, how we're genuinely going to help. Yeah, but if you're going to come on board and help us, we're going to help you. So, like, it should work like that.

Speaker 1:

And you know the time that you're under pressure, whatever, it's just a silly one. Everyone's been under pressure before. Everyone can answer that. You just, you just made that up. Yeah, it's just. Um, it's very easy to just spit something out. Yeah, interviews I could talk about them all day. We hope you enjoyed the episode. As always, you know exactly what to do. Hit that follow button, subscribe whatever platform you listen to this podcast on. Also share it to to friends, families, co-workers, whoever you think may benefit from it. But unfortunately it's the end and we'll see you next week.

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Oscar Don

Co-host
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Zeke Guenthroth

Co-host