Top of Mind with Tambellini Group
Top of Mind with Tambellini Group
Keeping it Personal: Technology and the Student Experience
The definition of student experience is an ever-changing one. As technology advances, students’ expectations shift to newly introduced possibilities. Inevitably, this affects student experience. However, what’s important to consider is whether implementing a solution just because it’s available is worthwhile to your institution. In this episode, new show host Elizabeth Farrell talks to Dr. Melissa Harts, former Chief Information Officer and Senior Vice President at Pasco-Hernando State College (PHSC). Dr. Harts gives listeners an inside scoop on how PHSC leveraged technology to drive a more positive student experience while maintaining personal interactions.
Hello, and welcome to this month's episode of Tambellini Group's Top of Mind Podcast. I'm your new host, Liz Farrell. And today we're going to be speaking with Dr. Melissa Harts. Now for seven years, Dr. Harts served as the chief information officer and senior vice president of technology and distance education for Pasco-Hernando State College in Florida. And during her time at Pasco-Hernando, she led a massive transformation in how her institution leveraged technology to more efficiently drive a positive student experience while maintaining those personal interactions that r emain so essential to the overall student experience. So welcome to the show, Dr. Harts.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Liz, and thanks for having me for this discussion.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for coming on. Um, before we dive into our discussion though, I'd like to kick things off by setting the scene. Can you tell us a little bit about Pasco-Hernando State College and your role there?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. So, as you alluded before, I was at PHSC for seven years and I served in various roles beginning as a Dean of institutional technology to then the VP of technology and distance education, and finally at the senior VP CIO of technology and distance education. So, quite a long tenure there, um, in different roles, uh, PHSC is one of, uh, 28 sister colleges in Florida. We are actually located north of Tampa. We have five campuses and one extension if it's called the AIPAC, which is the Instructional Performing Arts Performance Arts Center, which is our newest location. Um, we have various, um, uh, areas of study mainly in the stem programs, CTE programs, welding aviation, dental hygiene, we're known for our workforce program. We have an award-winning nursing program as well. We have about 11,000 students and we just have various demographics from non-traditional to traditional students getting their AA degrees, their AAS degrees. We even have a baccalaureate program. So we just have a lot of students from various walks of life that we try to service so that we can be an ancillary part of the community.
Speaker 1:That's great background. Thank you. I'm interested to hear about the range of students that you talk about in looking at your institution. I noticed that roughly two thirds of your students are part-time and 40% are of a non-traditional student age. That certainly suggests that they probably have varying definitions of what they want from the student experience. But how does your institution define the student experience overall?
Speaker 2:I think the student experience overall really lies with our frontline people. They're the first touch points for our student and that begins that student life-cycle, that student experience and introduction to a PHSC. So by the time you get, you put in an application or call our help desk, that's your first touch point, your first introduction, uh, with PHSC and the culture is, is that, um, as soon as a student reaches out or contacts us and has, you know, that first interaction with a PhD employee, we are making sure that we are, uh, at least giving them their initial outreach that they're handheld through and shepherded through the process, uh, from the time that they apply for admissions all the way to the time that they graduate. Uh, so their pathways may be varied, but that's our objective across all groups of students, regardless of age or the discipline that they're studying, that they at least have some point of contact with every touch touch point throughout their academic career with PHSC. We want it to be a seamless process, but also a personal process, um, at each step of the way we allow for them to have a seamless application experience, registration, experience, retention, and engagement experience, including student activities up to graduation. So it all culminates to, um, towards a positive, promotional experience for the student.
Speaker 1:Well, that seems to be the gold standard for all institutions, having this sort of seamless student experience through the whole life cycle. Um, but as I think we're both aware, it's often challenging to deliver on the promise of providing that. And many institutions are struggling with that challenge right now and in some cases falling short of that. So I'm interested to hear you talk a little bit about what the situation was like at your institution when you arrived and what the progression has been like over the course of your seven years at the institution—PHC, PHSC, I'm sorry— going in different roles and what you've seen in terms of improvement.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's a great question. So when I started at PHSC, the focus across the institution was on face-to-face connections with students and face-to-face classes coming in and meeting with an advisor coming in and completing application coming in and filling this out manually, very paper-based process and it's to some degree, um, that way, but it has definitely shifted. We started midway looking at doing student enrollment student online enrollment, uh, dynamic electronic forms so that the students could have this one seamless experience instead of a choppy experience that could be time consuming and arduous. We had been very frustrated with our own processes to be honest. Our students were too because what they wanted our technology wasn't allowing for them to do so. For example, we used to have those long lines that you probably have seen on videos. The long lines wrapped around the buildings, a student waiting to sign up for classes or asking questions about their financial aid. And it was very, very painful, not just for the students, but also for employees knowing that they, you know, the students were going through that. Um, so we really wanted to be a better service to them. As we gained more knowledge and technology became more advanced, we were able to add, you know, certain things that helped to make the process more efficient, but yet still preserve that one-on-one contact with students as needed. Uh, the next step step that we took was looking at shifting from our majority face-to-face classes to having an online platform. That was huge when we, uh, decided to move up a large percentage of our classes to online to service our students in that way. So we're very well positioned for the pandemic because we had preemptively preemptively put many of our classes online. So it was then just a matter of moving the rest of them and providing the tools and resources for everyone to use.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad you mentioned the, the last 18 months that we've been through in terms of the pandemic reaction response and ongoing adaptations. Um, it seems like in hearing you talk about that, like many institutions, yours reaped the benefits of being forward-thinking pre pandemic when it comes to technology. And when we had spoke before you mentioned an equally, if not more important mindset shift that happened over the same time period. And can you describe that and its importance?
Speaker 2:Sure. So I definitely have seen a shift from face-to-face and manual processing to a mindset of how, how can we do this more seamlessly with technology to how do we change our business processes in order to ensure that students still have those one-on-one personalized interactions, but the experience is seamless throughout. Um, before we would say we weren't able to do certain things because of the technology. For example, with our legacy system, we weren't able to have electronic applications. It was all manual. Students with scan and email forms. And that seems like such a time ago. I mean, I think we're still scanning, but not to the extent that we were before. Um, now it's widely accepted across our campuses and our institution and functional areas that that's just not the way the first line or the first way to go. There's, there's other more efficient ways to, to communicate and get information from students. We know that our students want, um, for example, forms available to them, they want to be able to click on it. They want it automatically sent. They want to get a response via email text, or both saying, you know, we received this application, click on this link to access it. And here's when you you'll receive a response from us. So their expectations have grown from, you know, I'm willing to print out the document, fill it out, scan it and send it to you to, I want it all in one platform, one system with one communication chain via email and text. And, you know, by the way, I need a reminder sent to me too, and also give me reminders of other forms. I need to fill out along the way. So with those expectations and the technology able to meet those needs, we needed to change our own business processes and our own mindsets to meet those expectations. We had to really start seeing it the way our students expected it to be seen in order for us to meet their demands and meet their needs. So it's not just a shift in expectations or technology, but a shift in how we do business at the college and the way we do it and how we provide services to the students as an institution, as a whole.
Speaker 1:That's an excellent point. I mean, as we often say here, those are, it's easier said than done, um, changing processes and student advising and faculty roles can be particularly challenging because there are those strong held beliefs that whether it's student counseling or teaching a particular class, that there's no replacement for that in-person one-on-one interaction. I mean, did you encounter any hesitation or pushback in that realm?
Speaker 2:Oh yes. Oh yes, of course. So the mindset change that had to happen is not, you know, everything needs to be done face-to-face. You know, you have to come from a thought process of, we have to do a face-to-face. It has to be, they have to come in and have to be here and we have to teach them in the classroom. It has to, has to, has to. So some things can't be approached that way, as we have learned through the pandemic. They require you, you know, of course you, you have to be able to have that flexibility. You have to be able to allow for the options have that technology options, but you still need to have that in-person interaction. I don't want to say that we have to do everything technologically, you can't, some things are just too deep or personal and there has to be a one-on-one meeting. Um, but a lot of business processes can be done virtually like registration, you know, that will enhance the student experience so that students, instead of standing on the line and being number 99, those students can then, you know, be online, maybe, you know, for less amount of time, hopefully less amount of time than not 99 online, but they're able to at least see an e-advisor or get some answers electronically or through artificial intelligence. They can just get their answers right at their fingertips, as opposed to having to come on on a line and in-person to get a question answered. Um, so again, I don't want to leave them impression that, you know, face-to-face will not be needed. And I don't want, um, you know, to leave the, the thought process that we're, we should walk away from that from higher ed. We can't, we have to still have that human contact—that touchpoint, that personal contact—but we need to examine the experiences that a student will go through and filter out what truly needs to be face-to-face and what doesn't, it's not only a mindset change, but a business process change across the spectrum that will continue to go through and we need to go through it in order to meet the needs of our students in higher ed as a whole.
Speaker 1:That's an excellent point. And I'm glad you mentioned that. So, um, I know that there had been a lot of lip service prior to the pandemic paid to that, and it sounds like you all were well along the process prior to the pandemic, but, um, I'm curious for you to elaborate a little bit on how far you felt like, um, that mindset shift had progressed prior to March, 2020.
Speaker 2:That's a great question. So in my opinion, again, I don't have the data specific to say this, but from my observations, I can say some places across the institution, we were 75% there. And in other places we were about 50% there. Now, 75%, maybe in student registration experience and advising experience We're thinking out of the box and virtual advising, online registration, dynamic forms, e-advising. We also had, you know, you can get your appointments online. We did a lot of very innovative things. I think we're now looking at online registration, um, giving students that, that experience, giving them a virtual experience of the college. And again, just thinking outside the box, how we can use technology to make it more seamless with students. But when it came to the classroom experiences, I believe we were stuck. And this again, years ago in the mindset that all instruction and pedagogy, what should be on online or the majority of it should be online. It was worthwhile if you took a face-to-face class, as opposed to having that class, um, in an online platform. Now mind you, I do believe that there has to be in-person— in-person experience—you know, it's type of experiential component to your learning. I think there's some classes that you just should do face-to-face that are, are, are needed because you need to have that hands-on for example, in welding or example in nursing, you have to have clinical practical experience. I'm not saying that all classes, that all should be online, but I am saying that we need to look at, and we should continue to look at which I think we have as an institution at those classes, which we can put online, filter those through and make that an option for students. We are going to offer it online because it's in person, um, just because it's in person, but we need to have that, that balance, if you will, it needs to be some classes online. Some classes are face-to-face. You can have multiple classes, here's a class online and here's the same class as face-to-face, but we can't just say we're sticking to one type of modality just because we always did it that way.
Speaker 1:That's an excellent point. So what happened when the pandemic hit, then, in changing that?
Speaker 2:So the pandemic allowed us to take everything to just the next level to just step it up. So before, and this is not just at PHSC, this was in higher ed. I mean, this was just education K-12 even There were all these excuses. And I use that term a very lovingly. I talk to my educators and colleagues, but there were excuses in terms of, we can't because we shouldn't because, we may not be able to. Because well, now with the pandemic, we had to. There were no excuses we just had to. So we had to jump over all of those, um, excuses and obstacles and challenges that we saw and find the possibility and just make it happen. It, there was no, there was no time for excuses. There was no time for debating over it. It just had to happen. And interestingly enough, I remember the day after the governor said that it was a mandate for everything to go to remote. And I was working with my team that weekend on how we were going to do this. This is the instructional technology team. You know, how are we going to put everything online? Sure. We had a lot of classes online, but how are we going to put all of these classes, all of these sections online over 1800—1100 to 1800— courses that we had to put online thinking in terms of different sections, you know, what's the plan and how will we train our teachers? You know, what resources are we going to provide? How are we going to get the licenses, all of the logistics. And I remember sitting that Monday in an exec team meeting and everyone who had talked, you know, had I talked to previously years ago and jus encouraged them to continue to put things online. And beg them to put courses online and repeatedly said, you know, please, we have to keep putting more classes online. What can we do? Can we put this class alive? What about this one? I was trying to beg and barter, can this class online? Can we work with all over, you know, over here? Can we do it this way? And here it is, I'm in a meeting with many of these same people who are now saying to me, what are we going to do, Dr. Harts, how are we gonna do it? How are we going to put this online? And I'm thinking to myself before I even answer answered, you know, the question of what's the plan I'm thinking to myself, well, had we done more before this point, it would just be a seamless process. We wouldn't have all these questions about what we're going to do and how we're going to do it. We would just be going through and doing it upon the agreed upon steps and processes of protocols that we had already put forward. Now, what we're trying to do is to retroactively at that time, we were trying to retroactively put in place things that we should have done proactively. So that's an example to show you that the pandemic took away all of the excuses and all of the debatable remarks of a research says, and given me, you know, giving data that says, this is the right way to go in terms of face-to-face instruction versus online, all of that language just was wiped off the table of why we can't to why we must,
Speaker 1:It's an excellent point. And thank you for sharing that. It echoes a lot of what I heard from a lot of other people in your position where they had been championing this sort of transition for years, and finally got that validation that they needed. Um, in the academy, there's always going to be research that says that you should or shouldn't do certain things. So that can be a bit of a rabbit hole to jump down in there. Um, so it's gratifying to hear how that was the extra accelerant that you all needed for pushing things further. Um, and, but despite the unifying urgency of the pandemic, do you think it's legitimate to be concerned going forward that people will, or even already have, um, started sliding back into their old ways as sort of the immediate necessity of the past 18 months fades into their memory fades and their memories?
Speaker 2:That's an excellent question. I do think some of that thinking has, and will continue to creep back into the dialogue. I want to say this, there are two things I want to say to this one is that having classes online, just for the sake of having them online is not the answer. Now, that's what we had to do primarily through the pandemic. But again, it takes a strong instructional pedagogy to make sure students are successful in those online classes. So as far as creeping back into the way we did things before, I think one, we've learned a lot of lessons that we need to make sure we have a tight and solid pedagogy to make sure students are successful in the online environment. And as I said, not all classes should be online. I'm not advocating that, but the ones that can should, right. So there, we want to make sure we have a strong pedagogy, because again, the ultimate is for student success. I also want to say the second is the student expectation. I think if instructors or instructional colleagues and personnel start thinking in terms of, well, let's go back to the way things were. Let's go back to more face-to-face. I think the student expectation is going to cause that thought process to be halted or it's for us to review and take a pause. Students are going to say, well, you did it before, so why can't you do it now you offered, for example, calculus two online before, why can't you do it now? So the precedent has been set. So it's going to be very difficult to swing the pendulum all the way back to, you know, classes predominantly being face-to-face when the demand or expectation is for you to be able to offer it online, especially with students can be successful. So I'll give you an example. I mean, this is a personal example. I started ordering groceries online during the pandemic. That was like a first experiencefor me. Because I was always like, I've got go to the store and to see about the sale. Right. So now citation is that I have an option. I can order online if I want to, or I can go to the grocery store if I want to. So if my grocery store now stops offering that online service, my questions are going to be one, why can't I do that anymore? And why are we stopping this service? And I know it's a service in high demand because when I go to pick up my groceries, I see there's a long line of cars waiting to pick up their groceries as well. If someone has already picked up off the shelves and put it in bags and all we have to do is just put it in my trunk. So again, it's the same expectation in higher ed, where we have to be ready, prepared, and set for the expectation that we have already created because of the necessity with the pandemic, you know, the PHSC president, Dr. Beard, he would say there are some students who obviously want to have face-to-face experience. And I agree with him a hundred percent, I think so as well, and that can't go away and won't go away. There's just something about socialization and community that you can't re replace in a virtual environment. Truly you can't, you can do collaboration and engagement, but there's something being face-to-face because that's who we are as humans, but we're going to have to offer alternative options in our menu. And it can't be that one overpowers the other, we just have to be mindful and flexible that we're in a new day and age with new expectations.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I like that distinction that you make that there are some things that just have to be done face-to- face. And you mentioned that, you know, though, some of those that are not those manual processes that are more one on one interactions are always going to be essential. And we had previously discussed, um, one very effective example of the need for personal analog outreach to students that worked in tandem with tech during the pandemic. And I think it's a very enlightening one that you shared. So I was hoping you could share with our audience here to sort of illustrate that balance. You need to find between yes, we can use the technology to realize efficiencies both operationally and in our quality of experience and seamless integration for our students, but we're going to need to have that personal human touch as well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think you're referring to the phone tree activity that we did at the initiative that we did. So on July, 2020, we were down by 35% in our enrollments compared to the previous, our enrollment compared to the previous year. And I remember because it was such a startling number, um, in the midst of the pandemic, right. And what we did as a college, a college wide, and I give all credit to our student affairs team that came up with this idea. And that is to do a phone tree collegewide. Because student enrollment is everybody's responsibility. It's not just one area's responsibility. Where we called students and we asked them, well, what's going on? And how can I help you? And of course we had scripts and certain departments and faculty members and just everyone pitched in, in order to reach out to, to students and just ask, you know, how are they doing and how we can facilitate them coming back. Um, now that had nothing to do with the technology and it had nothing to do really with virtual advising. I'm sure they got advising when needed and if needed, but it was just everyone coming together reaching out to students, meeting them where they, where they were, where they were, um, it had to do with that human touchpoint. I'm here for you. I want to know what's happening so that we can help you. So what students were saying was either I'm out of work, that's why I'm not coming back. I can't pay for a bus. I can't pay for transportation much less. You know, thinking about paying for bills. I have medical issues. I'm concerned. I have, you know, overwhelmed by everything that's going on. It's just too much on my plate. And technology was a very small percentage of the issues that students were dealing with. And we had to know that in order to meet their needs, we have to know what those needs were, so that we would have, um, the ability to address them. And we wouldn't have been able to address them if we didn't make that contact. So then we did a survey just to make sure that the informal information that we were getting back from all of the touch points, um, that we had the data to match. Um, and the survey, uh, was telling us the same thing. But when you hear the stories and the students sharing all of the things that they had to deal with, you can appreciate being reached out to you. The student can appreciate, you know, people coming to them, calling them saying, you know, I noticed you didn't register for class what's going on. As opposed to a student taking a survey with the technology is having that human contact that I think helped us to push those numbers up. And if I remember correctly, our numbers ended up, we were still down, but I think by like 11% comparatively, and I credit a lot of that to that human touch. Again, I'm all about technology, but it's not about a replacement, but that student touchpoint in the student life cycle.
Speaker 1:Excellent point. Especially with, you know, when we're dealing with these exceptional circumstances and times, um, you can fill out a survey and feel like, well, I'm, I'm one of many being heard, but when you hear from that person at the campus, who's showing that compassion and concern. I mean, that just goes such a long way. And it sounds like the numbers definitely bore that out for you all in a state where, um, we know the numbers were adversely affected, and we know, especially among, um, institutions that serve students with, um, working students, um, a lot of community colleges and others were especially adversely hit. Um, having said that though, um, you also mentioned that the technology is a part, not a replacement. Um, so even with those one-on-one interactions, can you talk a bit about technology and the role it played in coordinating responses, faculty and staff received when making those calls? I mean, this sounded like an all hands on deck effort, and it's great to get all those stories, and I'm sure it was helpful for, for faculty and staff to hear them as well, and in motivating and compassion. Um, but how did, how did you take all that, that personal one-on-one information and translate that into distributing resources that students needed and connecting them with those?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's another excellent question. So we did what a lot of colleges across the state did. And so this was a borrowed idea, and that is with that online survey, finding out what the student needs were. We had the quantitative element to get anonymous feedback. We used the Likert scale to have them rate their top issues with questions so that in each topic area, like if it was a psychological need, if it was a financial aid need, or if it's a technology needs. So then with the technology need, is that your number one priority? Is it that you don't have wifi? You don't have equipment, you don't have the, the infrastructure. Um, so based on the priorities and based on the needs. So we looked first at the priorities we wanted to address those priorities first, get that solved. And then we went to, based on the needs, we filtered it through to kind of layers. So once we did that quantitative analysis, we were able to take that information and break it down into the different areas of, for example, in my division, technology is an area of equipment or is an area of wifi access. So when we're able to differentiate what the needs were and the individual students who needed that technology, um, then we were able to put in a loaner laptop program. We also gave away some refreshed desktops that we gave away. And we did this all through again a community effort here. We did this all through each of the campuses and worked with each of those registrar offices, because they would get the information as well from students. We got information from faculty when students were in class, again, channelled it all through their individual campuses, got the students, the equipment they need. When it came to the wifi, we were able to get students gift cards, working with the family, so the students could pay for their wifi or give them, um, resources for, you know, discounted wifi from the providers. Um, so this way they had the technology that they needed in order to do, um, their, their classes or to attend their classes online. Um, so each department, um, at our college, as I'm sure with other colleges throughout the country, you know, we, we just reached out to the students. We provided them with the needs. Once we, we found out what they were, if we had to reach out to them, one-on-one people from my help desk staff would call the student and say, how can I help you set this up? Do you need any assistance? So again, we were just trying to identify what the students' needs were, how we could handle them, um, give them the equipment that they needed, the financial aid packages that they needed, whatever, or we could do to make the experience, um, at least more comfortable for them if they weren't coming back to school, but more, but especially if they were to give them the tools and resources they needed to be successful. That's
Speaker 1:What I really like about that example that you provided is that it involves technology, but the students don't necessarily have to see it. They aren't aware of all that backend coordination you've just cited. It's involved, but it's behind the scenes, like good service in a restaurant.
Speaker 2:That's correct. And that's a great example, good service at a restaurant where you don't see how things are being done and being made, but you get the results of it. And so, um, you know, when technology is at the forefront, for example, or if we were smelling the burning in the kitchen, you know, that kind of thing, we have a big problem, right? So number one, you know, that would mean that our business process aren't designed with any human elements in them, or they need to be reconfigured for the system that we currently have. It's not working or that the product that we have needs to be tweaked because it's not functioning the way we intended it to function. So technology should not be at the forefront. Now, i f there's a problem with our business process or the functionality, we have to address that as soon as possible. And the only way we can address it is to do it the way we would do it. With human touchpoint experiences, we have to do it as a community. If it's our business processes, affecting the technology again, as a community would come together and fix it and make it happen. And look at the workflows, look at the configuration and, and, and ensure that our students are going to be successful. If it's a functionality of the technology, again, as a community, again, that human aspect coming together, making sure that we get it fixed, that it's done efficiently, it's done, um, in a, uh, capable way. So that, again, we don't have as much downtime time or aggravation or frustration technology is going to be technology, but we have to make sure that we remember that it's about the people, the processes, and then the product. And I do think it's in that order. I think we have to always put the needs of the people first. Then you look at your processes and how you, how you fix those. It may be so people PR PR issue, then we have to fix the, um, the training, work on the training. If it's a process issue, we have to look at our business processes, look at our continuity efforts. And if it's a product issue, we have to look and drill down and see where we can get the product fix enhanced. But altogether, working as a community to make it happen for our students,
Speaker 1:It's a universal sequence. It sounds like. I mean, we talk a lot about, uh, every institution being unique, having unique challenges, unique technology needs, but really taking that three pronged approach in that order is so essential. Um, you shared so much great advice and insights and stories with us today. Um, I would like for you to share with us, if you have any advice based on all the lessons learned from this experience and the outcomes.
Speaker 2:Okay. Wow. Um, so my advice, the, just to be open and be willing, willing to just embrace, um, new ways of doing things, but things, uh, before the pandemic and moving everything to an online platform, whether services, registration, or instruction that wasn't a willingness to think outside the box, or a way to even move outside the box. In some respects, there was a limit as to how far we would go. It was almost like a mindset. We will only go this far, but the pandemic has opened up, uh, that we have to go further and you have to think way outside the box, our institutions aren't the same anymore. Uh, this experience has transformed the way we think interact and address things. It's just changed us as people. So my advice would be just to be willing and be open to continuing the experience of creating something new out of the expectations that have been set.
Speaker 1:That is very astute guidance. Thank you so much, Dr. Harts. We've really enjoyed having you on the show today.
Speaker 2:Well, I thank you so much and I'm humbled to be here and I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1:Well, that concludes this month's episode of Tambellini's Top of Mind Podcast. Don't forget to check out our other episodes, blogs and resources at@thetambellinigroup.com.