Ep 32. Invasive Species & Noxious Weeds - Stephanie Easley & Chuck Chimera

In this episode we talk with Stephanie Easley, Legal Fellow at the Coordinating Group on Alien Pest Species, and Chuck Chimera, Weed Risk Assessment Specialist, Hawaii Invasive Species Council. Stephanie and Chuck discuss their experience battling the incoming threat and spread of invasive species and noxious weeds in Hawaii and how public education, improved regulations and policies can help deter the worsening impact of unwanted pests from invading Hawaii's natural and agricultural lands. 

Brought to you by University of Hawaii College of Tropical Ag. and Human Resources, and the Seeds of Well-being (SOW) Project. This podcast is supported by the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network (FRSAN) grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture and Hawaii Department of Agriculture.

Associated Links:

• Coordinating Group on Alien Pest Species
• Plant Pono
• Big Island Invasive Species Committee
• Kauai Invasive Species Committee
• Oahu Invasive Species Committee
• Maui Invasive Species Committee

Find out more about us:

• Seeds Of Wellbeing website
• Seeds of Wellbeing Resource Hub
• All the SOW links

Transcript

Thao: 0:00

The views information or opinions expressed during the Seeds of Wellbeing series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources or funders, and any affiliated organizations involved in this project. Welcome to a Seeds of Wellbeing"Voices From the Field" podcast, featuring voices of Hawaii agriculture producers for Hawaii agriculture producers. These podcasts are made possible by a grant from the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, also known as CTAHR. And the Seeds of Wellbeing or SOW project and is supported by grant from the US Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture, and the light Department of Agriculture.

Alex: 1:00

Aloha mai kakou. Welcome back to another episode of the Seeds of Wellbeing podcast"Voices From the Field." So I'm here today with Stephanie Easley, she is a legal fellow at the Coordinating Group on Alien Pest Species, and Chuck Chimera who is the Weed Risk Assessment Specialist at the Hawaii Invasive Species Council on Big Island. Aloha, welcome.

Stephanie Easley: 1:25

Thank you.

Chuck Chimera: 1:27

Thank you, aloha.

Alex: 1:29

So let's jump right into things. My first question for both of you is, how would you describe the current state of invasive species and noxious weeds, and the public and private perceptions of both of those things in Hawaii?

Chuck Chimera: 1:43

Iʻll let Stephanie go first.

Stephanie Easley: 1:47

I'll start with kind of the legal side of the noxious weed statutes in Hawaii. So there are, when you look at what governs noxious weeds, in Hawaii, just like anything else, there's statutes and then there's rules. And the statutes is what is passed by the legislature, and that's the law, and then the agency that's charged with carrying out that law makes administrative rules, and they're supposed to have the technical expertise to write the detail of how that's going to be done. And so, there is a chapter of the Hawaii revised statutes, which is called the Noxious Weed Rules. And the, and then there are the Noxious Weed Statutes. And then there is a chapter of the administrative rules that HDOA has adopted to carry out the statutes. And both of these are very old and very out of date. The list of noxious weeds is over 30 years old. And the list includes the species that are identified as noxious weeds, and the area's that are relatively free of them. And the kind of, what, when these rules, when the statute was originally adopted in that in the 50s, before statehood and the rules, the original version, was also before statehood, these are old old statutes and old old rules that have been modified. I think the last time the statute was amended was 1987. And the last time the rules was amended, was 1992. So we're not dealing with modern thinking about addressing these issues, or a modern list of species. So that, like with, specifically related to noxious weeds, that is kind of what we're dealing with. And, you know, I don't want to go on too long about the statutes and the rules, but I do have a legal background and that's what, you know, where my interest lies. But these rules, the statute was set up for a different economy, for an economy in Hawaii, where agriculture was the big ticket item, and the state was supporting it. And it's intended to permit HDOA the Hawaii Department of Agriculture, which has, you know, in this world, these, this budget to go help agricultural producers get noxious weeds off their land. And so the idea is there's a list of species that have been identified as problems for agriculture or recreation, or you know, the environment. And then the Department of Agriculture would go to the landowner and enter into a cooperative agreement with them would that would split the cost of controlling or eradicating the identified noxious weed species. So like Department of Ag might bring the technical expertise and the chemicals and the landowner would bring the staff to apply it and and they would enter into these cooperative agreements and control their noxious weed species. And they also prohibit, they make it unlawful to move noxious weeds into areas that are free or relatively free of that noxious weed. And that's also designated like in the list for each species, what areas of the state are free or relatively driven. Hawaii Department of Ag doesn't have a budget like that anymore. It doesn't have people to go out and assist landowners in controlling and eradicating noxious weeds on their property. They don't have money to buy the chemicals, This program basically, really doesn't occur. And, you know, because of that, I think, as the, you know, and the legislature is the one who gives Hawaii Department of Agriculture the budget, which you know, lets them set their priorities. If they don't fund these type of activities, then Hawaii Department of Agriculture can't go and assist landowners in combating noxious weeds. And so it's just kind of become just not used, you know, if it's not working. In 2008, the legislature gave the noxious weed list, a legislative boost and they made it illegal to bring any noxious weed into the state or to sell it. And so that, at least that old, out of date, 1992 list, at least you can't bring those in anymore. So that, you know, provide some level of protection. But again, the species on that list is something that needs a whole fresh look. You have any thoughts about all that before I talk more generally?

Alex: 6:51

Chuck, I think she's talking to you.

Chuck Chimera: 6:53

Oh, okay. I wasn't sure if she was. No, that was a really good summary. And as a as a botanist, you know, trained to identify plants, I always appreciate when somebody with legal expertise can explain something to me that I feel like I should already know about but. And just working with Stephanie in the last few years is really, I've been in this field for over for almost 30 years myself since the last time the noxious weed rules were updated, and I never really fully understood the rules until I started working with Stephanie recently. So she's given me like a lot of insight into that. But as far as like, you know, the state of noxious weeds and invasive species in Hawaii, you know, the species on the noxious weed list, there's about 95 species or varieties on there, and including a few, like the entire genus of plant is listed on there, so it does have value. And when they made it illegal to bring these plants into Hawaii, it still has positive impacts here. I mean it actually can prevent the arrival of some things that we don't have. But because it hasn't been updated for so long it has become almost, you know, passe in some cases because new invasive species, new invasive plants, are continually arriving, being identified by the different organizations, different partner agencies on the different islands, and if they were to wait until something was, you know, you know, listed as a noxious weed nothing would have been done on some of these new invaders. So, because of that, so many agencies, organizations, conservation groups, agricultural groups, have had to take matters into their own hands. And as Stephanie was mentioning, this isn't the Hawaii Department of Agriculture's fault, you know. They're limited by their funding with what they can do. A lot of money, as, as you're probably aware, sometimes comes with like a very short time limit on which it can be spent. So that's how some of these other you know, partner agencies are able to be more flexible, and work quickly. They get a quick grant, they can target a particular weed or an invasive species right away, and, you know, hopefully make some impact immediately. But, you know, over the long term, that's not sustainable. We need some more longer term solutions and, you know, revising and updating our noxious weed list and rules and other regulations is, is really long overdue,

Alex: 9:36

Preventative strategies, right? Preventative strategies.

Chuck Chimera: 9:39

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Alex: 9:43

So in terms of public perception, I guess, Chuck, you would probably be a little bit more experienced, like interfacing with the public and educating the public. I mean, to be honest, I had zero clue about Plant Pono and about what what's invasive, what's noxious, before I actually became part of the soil water conservation districts, as an employee and got into agriculture that way. But I had no clue what was bad, you know. And when you walk around, you know, the islands and you walk around a pasture or a farm like, I couldn't, I couldn't identify what's invasive and what's not. And I do feel that there has been quite a bit of public education that's been going on in the recent years, especially with things like rapid ohia death, and the push for planting natives, right? A lot of people are understanding the value of planting native speak plant species and their understanding that, you know, it's a better alternative than planting certain landscaping plants. But to be honest, like, unless you work in conservation, or unless you work in agriculture, most people don't have any idea about any of this. So in terms of public perception, kind of what's your what's your gauge on that? And are things being done to improve public understanding and education?

Chuck Chimera: 11:11

Yeah, I mean, absolutely, I can. I 100% agree. I came to Hawaii over 30 years ago, as a, you know, as a volunteer at Haleakala National Park. But prior to arriving to Hawaii I could identify plants based on whether they were a grass, a shrub, or a tree, and that was it. That's the extent of my plant knowledge. And over the course of my career I, living in Hawaii is what made me really appreciate, you know, what was so special about this place, and how many different, you know, unique plants and animals are found here, and nowhere else on earth. And so this is what living in Hawaii working in Hawaii is what created the love of plants and botany for me. And since that time, I and many, you know, more partners and people that I can mention, have, you know, they work constantly to try to, you know, educate the public about, you know, the importance of non invasive plants, or native species, or things that are more sustainable versus constantly importing something in here. But, you know, it's, it's a constant, never ending, you know, struggle to get the message out. And so, you know, as far as, you know, knowing about an invasive plant, I mean, the first thing that I think that I always remind myself is like, if you call something a weed, or invasive, that's really a subjective term. Like one person's weed, or invasive plant could be another person's really important agricultural crop or, you know, horticultural plant that they use for landscaping. So it all depends on the context. And if you know, somebody has a yard or a garden, they'll be able to tell you what weeds they deal with, you know, if they have a plant, that's, you know, invading their lawn, or something that keeps coming up, you know, in their garden that's competing with their food plat, that'll be a weed to that person. Somebody that's growing, you know, a crop knows what weeds come in, after they tilled the soil, or what plants might be harboring, like a pest that then feeds on their crop. And then from the conservation background, you know, it's a completely different category, you'll have like a native intact forest and the people that work for the park service, or the Nature Conservancy, or DOFAW, the state forestry, they'll tell you what plants are creating problems in the natural environment. So it just depends on context. But, you know, it also depends on how much people get out and experience, you know, the natural world. And, you know, with the majority of our population, you know, even as rual and agricultural, the State is Hawaii is, you know, we still live in it, you know, the majority of our population lives in an urban environment so they might not have quite the perspective that a grower or somebody who does field work for the National Park Service, or even somebody that has the, you know, the privilege of having a garden in their own property. I mean, you know, land in Hawaii is really, really valuable and at a premium so it all depends on where you are. But yeah, I would say it doesn't surprise me that even you know, even somebody like yourself isn't aware of like, Plant Pono. But, you know, that's what I mean, we're always trying to get that message out and help people, you know, make better decisions about what they want to bring in or grow in Hawaii, you know, for the benefit of all of us. So it's kind of a rambling answer, but if there's anything in there that you wanted to specifically ask me about him, I'm happy to go into more detail.

Alex: 14:50

Well, it brings me to my next question for both of you. What is the difference between an invasive species and a noxious weed? And then a second question is, what is the criteria for a weed to be considered invasive or noxious? And to make the blacklist?

Stephanie Easley: 15:09

I'm just want to follow up with one point on that last question about public perception. Which, I think, with plants and animals in Hawaii, it's very different. And, you know, that's based in the legislation again, like the statutes. Everyone knows that to bring an animal to Hawaii you need a permit. You can't just bring in your ferret, even your dog, you know, you need a permit. There's a list of you know, you have, it has to be allowed into Hawaii and you have to have a permit for it. Plants, it's the flip side. It's, unless it's prohibited from being brought in, you can bring it in. It needs to be inspected. But people don't have that same awareness that they do have that, you know, mammals, particularly obviously, like a skunk, and then snakes, reptiles, people just have that general awareness that is not there with plants, and isn't reflected in the statutes prohibiting bringing in plants that could become invasive. And I will start the answering the next question. So invasive species, obviously, is any species, right? It's not limited to plants. And that means that that species is not, did not develop in that ecosystem. And the introduction of that species, is likely to cause economic or environmental harm to the environment, to animals, plants, agriculture. That's not the exact definition. But that's the concept is it didn't develop in that area, you're bringing in something from another geographic location. And because it doesn't have the same competitors and predators that it had in that other environment, it can explode and cause harm to the environment that it's coming into. Chuck, I bet you could do better than that.

Chuck Chimera: 17:06

No, that was a pretty good. I was gonna, I was going to say, that exact same definition. And the other the other aspect of an invasive species, so a plant or an animal, is like, besides agriculture, the environment, is also health. So human health. So you know, we consider an a non native species that can come and cause problems to human or animal health, like, you know, mosquitoes or the rat lungworm disease or, you know, something that can affect, you know, our pets health, like and our human health. Like a little fire ant that can sting us and, you know, blind pets.

Stephanie Easley: 17:44

Right, and it includes diseases also

Chuck Chimera: 17:47

and invasive.

Stephanie Easley: 17:50

Like plant pathogens, you know, diseases rod other things. And then noxious weeds in Hawaii has a statutory definition. I know I keep going back there, but that's my thing. So I'll just read it to you. A noxious weed means any plant species which is, or which may be likely to become, injurious, harmful or deleterious to the agricultural, horticulture, aquaculture or livestock industry at the State or to forest recreation areas and conservation district of the State, of the State, as determined and designated by the Department of Agriculture from time to time. So that is the statutory definition. They made rules to implement that definition. And under the current rules, it has to meet each of five criteria, one related to the reproductive characteristics of the plant related to the growth characteristics of the plant. The third one is detrimental impacts to the environment. The fourth one is that, it has to be hard to control, and it can't just be readily available pesticide or herbicide. And criteria relating to distribution and spread. So it has to meet each of those five and then can be designated as a noxious weed, which they do by adding it to the noxious weed list, which the original, well they in 1981, the State of Hawaii changed everything about its administrative rules, and all of the administrative rules got changed. Because prior to that, each agency just kept its own administrative rules, and no one could tell what was, had been repealed and what was effective. So 1981, the noxious weed list, let the Hawaii Department of Agriculture just make changes to the list by an action of the Board of Agriculture. And so they could just keep updating the list as they needed to. In 1992 they made a change to those regulations, and now to add any species from to the list you have to go through a full rulemaking process, which is, best case scenario, a one year process, which takes a lot of resources from the agency, and in other cases much longer than one year. So you'd have to meet the criteria, then they'd have to go through rulemaking, and then they'd have to change that list to actually be designated as a noxious weed in Hawaii. There is a Federal. Each State has its own list of noxious weeds and there is a list of federal noxious weeds that's maintained by USDA.

Alex: 20:34

Anything to add to that, Chuck?

Chuck Chimera: 20:36

Yeah, I mean, that was again, like, from the legal side, I wouldn't have been able to recite any of that, but I did want to say that to add to Stephanie's definition. So a noxious weed in Hawaii has a legal designation and definition assigned to it. So all noxious weeds, in Hawaii are invasive, if they're here there's definitely a problem with them, or somewhere else, which is why they got on the noxious weed list. But not all, not all invasive species are noxious weeds. You know, maybe they all should be, but they're not. So there are many other tools, research, things that can be done to identify plants that are invasive. And you know, if the noxious weed list is updated someday, you know, we have a huge list of potential candidates to add to that. And that's part of the work I do is I run plants through this screening criteria that answers questions about the plants biology, ecology, history of invasiveness elsewhere. And this questionnaire that I run through, assigns a score and a risk rating to plants, so they can be their high risk, low risk are kind of this gray area. And that helps us to at least predict whether or not a plant is likely to cause some kind of harm in Hawaii. It doesn't have a legal designation. So my job and what I do with these weed risk assessments is not like a legally mandated thing that people need to, to follow, but it does help people, you know, maybe make more informed planting choices about what could cause some kind of trouble. One of those criteria, environment, agriculture, or our health. If it could impact one of those things. You know, gives people a little bit of extra information on on a plant before they decide to grow it.

Alex: 22:35

Okay, so just real quick, for for some for some fun and giggles, I have three weeds that I have dealt with farming in Lihue on Kauai. I was wondering if you two could tell me if it's noxious and/or invasive? Or like you said if it's noxious itʻs invasive, but if it's invasive, it's not necessarily noxious. But if you could tell me if it's invasive, and/or noxious. And yeah, so the first one is nutsedge. I hate nutsedge. Is that noxious and invasive?

Chuck Chimera: 23:12

Definitely invasive. And let me see it's cyperus rotundus. It is, I don't see it on our Hawaii State noxious weed list.

Alex: 23:25

It is so hard to...

Chuck Chimera: 23:26

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's such a competitor with you know that that underground storage organ that it uses to, you know, hold on to nutrients is a perfect competitor for you know, lawns, crops, everything. And I don't see it on our noxious weed list. So, but clearly invasive. The only reason why I could think it might not might not have been included on the noxious weed list, some some of these things were so widespread and introduced so early that that they wouldn't have been added but I'm just confirming that I don't see it in our noxious weed list. It's cyperus rotundus. Nutsedge.

Stephanie Easley: 24:17

the only Nutsedge I see is yellow nutsedge cyperus esculentus.

Alex: 24:23

And is it is it noxious or is it only invasive?

Stephanie Easley: 24:27

So it's not on the Hawaii noxious weed list, it's not a designated noxious weed in Hawaii. I don't know this plant. I'm the the legal background but from what you and Chuck just described it sounds definitely like an invasive species.

Alex: 24:42

It's really hard to eradicate because even though it's just a small little like blade of grass, underneath the surf, deep underneath the surface, there's a nut and if you if you when you try and weed your beds, if you pull it out, but you don't get that nut it'll just regrow. And then it spreads it's a crawl, it's a little bit of a lateral crawler too, so it'll put out shoots, and then it'll put out more, more blades of grass. Okay, my second one is amaranth, not the edible one. But there's this one amaranth that would pop up, you know, everywhere. And they would just explode after one rain. And it seeds super fast. And then the seeds blow everywhere. And it just, it's so hard to eradicate from my field. But an amaranth was really it was killing me when I was trying to grow in Lihue at KCC at Kauai Community College. Amaranth that was that was another one that, oh my god, I just wanted to give up farming over there.

Chuck Chimera: 25:44

Was it's a spiny one or the non spiny one?

Alex: 25:47

Maybe non spiny, it's green and purple. The leaves are green and purpole.

Chuck Chimera: 25:51

Okay. Yeah, there's a there's a number of different amaranth species that are naturalized, which is like the fancy $5 word thatʻs saying that they they have their own self sustaining populations. They reproduce on their own, they can spread out on their own. They're not just being cultivated, they're, they're growing all without any human Chuck, I can't correct you on the species. You know help. And I again, I don't see any, any amaranth species on our Hawaii State noxious weed list. Not in the gene, the genus amaranthus is the is the one I think you're referring to. And so I would say absolutely invasive, super annoying pest of crops, you know. Yards. They really like disturbed ground and soil, which is an attribute of a lot of weedy plants, you know. They thrive in those high light environments where the soil has been recently tilled, and then they can just like grow really quickly, compete with other plants really well because they grow fast. And so they end up you know, hogging up the soil, the nutrients, the water, and just make you know, make farming and agriculture that much more expensive, like add to your whole workload. So maybe Stephanie could correct me on that but I don't believe there are any species in the genus amaranthus that are on the Hawaii noxious weed list. everything. But I don't see it listed. So it is not a State listed Hawaii State noxious weed.

Alex: 27:46

Okay, well, maybe third time will be a charm. This is my absolute least favorite weed. It's affected not just like vegetable and row cropping, but pastures. I've seen pastures almost overtaken by this plant, but wedelia. I hate wedelia. Is that noxious, or is it only invasive? And I know it was brought in as a landscaping plant, correct? As a ground cover for erosion control originally, but it spreads. Nothing can eat it. I believe it's toxic to livestock. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard stories, anecdotal stories, that it's toxic to livestock. That even when goats try and eat, it causes them health problems. And I think the last time I checked, the only the only chemical herbicide that can knock it back is 2,4-D, which is super strong chemical pesticide. But is wedelia, is that on the noxious weed list?

Chuck Chimera: 28:52

I hate to disappoint you. Third time is not the charm. Wedelia, which I believe has, you know, botanically been moved into a different genus, but everybody still calls it wedelia. I have a growing in my yard. It's all over the Big Island. People like it because it's a ground cover. But if you want to keep it out of other things, I mean, every little vegetative fragment and piece that breaks off has the potential to create a new plant. Super smothering and aggressive. Gets into your valuable plants. We have a pet rabbit in on my property and I've become pretty, my botanical, I put my botanical knowledge to use by, you know, feeding her different weeds in the yard that I pull up and you know, knowing which ones aren't toxic. And that's one that I knew that there were sometimes toxic properties to it but I still wanted to see if she would you know nibble on just the flowers and sticks her nose up to them and you know just turns away. So definitely something that's not good for, you know, for animals. Not good for gardens. Not good for farming. When I was at Haleakala National Park, it was invading coastal habitat competing with native plants. But certain landscapers love it, because it is super hearty. You can almost like weed, whack it back and it'll just come right back really thick. It does keep out other weedy plants, you know, to some degree. So from a maintenance landscape landscaping perspective, you know, it does have its uses, but everywhere else it is a headache is a nightmare. It is something that I wish I didn't have on my property. I'm constantly trying to get rid of it in certain areas. And it's just one of those things, now I know, I will be living with for as long as I you know, live here. So yeah, sorry. Sorry, that one, that one is not on our noxious weed list either as the genus previously occurred in wedelia, or its new genus Sphagneticola, I believe was the new, the new scientific name for it.

Alex: 31:09

So just for our listeners, any any suggested alternatives to wedelia as a landscaping ground cover, that is also a good weed suppressant. For me, I've been trying, I've been experimenting more and more with perennial peanut, but I was wondering if, Chuck, you had any suggestions.

Chuck Chimera: 31:30

Yeah, from, I do have perennial peanut growing under some of my fruit trees and things as well. And you know, it's a good plant to use because it's also a nitrogen fixer. So it's adding, you know, some, you know, valuable plant nutrients to the soil. But nothing that I found is as effective as a ground cover, as wedelia, because it is so aggressive. I mean, what makes it, what makes it you know, a great, you know, ground cover is also what makes it such a headache when it gets where you don't want to. I mean, there are other ground covers that can kind of, you know, fill in areas, there's a native fern Kupukupu that grows a really nice dense ground cover. But even this is a native species and can be a little aggressive too. So if you want to just, you know, have a nice monoculture of like one type of plant, something like this native sword fern can work in certain situations. But again, it's a rhizomatous, it'll, it'll spread vegetatively. So even something, even a native plant, you know, can get a little aggressive in the wrong place. So, again, you know, what makes something really good, effective ground cover can also make it weedy, aggressive invasive, when it gets in the wrong place. I wish there was like a perfect solution.

Alex: 32:55

Yeah. And in terms of defining what is a weed, what I've been told in the past, is that a weed is a plant that's growing where you don't want it to grow. Is that Is that what what it is? Okay. Yeah.

Chuck Chimera: 33:07

So a weed is a plant out of place.

Alex: 33:10

Itʻs very subjective, right? So, yeah, that being said, the subjectivity of this, this, you know, defining what's invasive, whatʻs noxious, with any law, right, with any law or rule or regulation, it's, it's only as effective, it's only effective it can if it can be enforced. So my question to both of you then is, what types of enforcement, you know, is backing up these laws that are being put into place about the importation of invasive species and noxious weeds? Is there any sort of regulatory you know, threat of force from the government or any specific agency that has authority to find somebody or arrest somebody to deter the importation of invasive species?

Stephanie Easley: 33:59

The Hawaii Department of Agriculture, when you bring in any plants, is supposed to be declared, and Wow. Okay, so that brings me to my next question is how do that is supposed to be inspected. If you're bringing in from the United States, from within the United States. It's that one of the biggest problems with the outreach to the public and helping people understand how to not bring invasive species is it's an absolutely complex system. Anything coming from a foreign country is regulated by the federal agencies and Customs and Border Protection inspects that. So what I'm talking about now is things coming from within the United States, someone coming to Hawaii from another state. You're supposed to tell Hawaii Department of Agriculture that you're bringing a plant into the State and they are supposed to inspect it, and if it is a nox, if it is one of the noxious weeds, which from your three examples, you'll see how limited this list is in terms of what's up actually detrimental in Hawaii, they can confiscate it from you. There are serious fines for the intentional importation of prohibited and restricted species. So if something is on a restricted list or prohibited list, and you intentionally bring it in with the intention to breed it or release it, you can get a fine up to $200,000. I don't think fines are, and that is like an intentional smuggler bringing in a brown tree snake, you know, like a very serious test. Those are on the books but my understanding, and these are really questions for Hawaii Department of Ag, is these inspectors work really hard. They try to inspect everything that comes in and they, if it is not permitted, they won't let you bring it in. The, you know, again, the noxious weed statutes do not have these stiff penalties. Because again, the intention of the statute and the regulations was supposed to be to help the agricultural community get rid of noxious weeds as a cooperative effort noxious weeds and invasive species usually end up in between the government and the grower or the landowner. So they don't have it. But they, the legislature, when they adopted in 2000, they adopted the prohibited and restricted animal lists, and the prohibited and restricted the plant list. And they put penalties for that. And this gets really confusing, and just cut me off if it's too much, but so we have the noxious weed list. Hawaii also has prohibited and restricted plant list. The only thing on that list is bromiliads to protect Hawaii? Is it through passenger airlines or cargo? Or are there the pineapple industry. They have not made a restricted plant list for Hawaii. Instead, they're sort of relying on the out of date noxious weed list to do that. So that's another like big hole in the kind of web of protection that's supposed to prevent things from coming in. The legislature did make that give that authority to HDOA, but it has not been carried out at this time because they just don't have the capacity. You know, they don't have people over there who are able to write these rules, go through the year long, you know, full time process of public meetings and all the review boards and things that it has to go before so, you know, that's where that's at. other ways that people smuggle in invasive species that shouldn't be here? Petco? is Petco responsible. I, you know, I don't have like statistics and information on this. I can say, anecdotally, you know, one thing that I'm just aware of, is you can order anything online, you know, plants and seeds. And, you know, because they can, you can order them on Amazon, they can ship them to your house, you wouldn't declare that, you know, you would just get your FedEx package of your plants. And then you would have it. Historically, you know, things arrived before they started having, before the noxious weed list was developed. And so some of those have become established over time, but I really don't have any, like, sense of how things are coming in, you know, diseases are, you know, almost always accidental. You know, come in on something as a plant disease that might not be something they can catch because maybe they can't see it at the inspection. But Chuck, do you have any more thoughts?

Chuck Chimera: 39:09

Yeah, no, I was gonna say, as far as like how invasive plants get into Hawaii. A UH botany professor decades ago did a study of the worst weeds that were invading natural areas in Hawaii. So these were just, you know, weeds of like forests and conservation lands, but this is probably applicable to other areas as well. And he, he broke down this list of like the 100 worst invaders of these natural areas and their method of, likely method of arriving in the islands. And about 90% of them were almost certainly intentional introductions. So there were things that were brought in not because they were invasive, but because they had some value of you know, either as a possibly a food plant an ornamental plant some other purpose. And then once they got here, they started to misbehave and really start to spread and cause problems. As you know, as much smaller percentage come in as like a seed contaminant or a hitchhiker on another plant, I would say like, you know, to your earlier question about people coming in on the planes, I would say that that's probably one of the least likely ways for an invasive plant to arrive in Hawaii. Stephanie mentioned online sales. You can bring seeds in. We have a noxious, the same noxious weed list we have, we have a noxious seed list. So technically, it's now illegal to bring in the seeds of these noxious weeds on a noxious seed list, but there are over 250,000 flowering plant species in the world. So if you want to bring in a plant, there is a gigantic, gigantic, almost endless list of choices of things you can legally buy online, you know. This, as long as the seeds are available, and somebody's selling them, it's technically illegal to bring them in. So most of these things start out as, you know, a good intention. And it's not somebody like willfully saying, I'm going to sneak in the worst weed in the world and bring down Hawaii's economy. You know, they want it because it's got a pretty flower, or it's got a nice leaf, or it's got other uses. And then later, sometimes, it'll start to create problems already after the fact. And so again, that's why, you know, part of my job is to try to identify some of these traits, behaviors, history of problems elsewhere, before somebody tries to bring something in and just give them a little bit of knowledge. Say,"Hey, maybe you want to consider something else. This plant really wouldn't be a good idea if it got brought into Hawaii." But, you know, unfortunately, that's the, you know, we live in this, you know, global open free market, you know, largely non regulated economy. And so if you want to, you can bring in something. The other thing about plants that's hard is the consequences of something becoming invasive from a plant. Sometimes you don't see right away, it might take a year or two years, or five years or even decades, before the problem is really obvious. And by then it's like, almost too late. You know, is it we're like, stinging ants. Nobody wants another stinging ant in Hawaii. So Hawaii Department of Agriculture, you know, does heroic efforts to prevent the introduction of another stinging ant, like this red imported fire ant that spread through the South, you know, all across the mainland. We do not want that here. And so those kinds of things, you know, nobody will argue about an ant, but you know, a plant with a pretty flower, and you say, "Oh, this is really invasive in Australia." You know, that doesn't, that doesn't have quite the same resonance as, as something that's going to hurt us are hurt our pets.

Alex: 43:03

You did mention that it's very, very unlikely that a passenger on a passenger airline would bring anything in. But I was wondering like, because I've noticed, too, that there's so much screening by USDA for people leaving the islands flying towards the continental United States. But coming in from the mainland, you just got to fill out that piece of paper. Seems a bit lopsided to me. Like, hey, they'll protect the mainland, but they will protect us. Is that is that kind of what what's happening here?

Stephanie Easley: 43:40

Well, it's part of like the complexity of like, you know, jurisdictions and and who has the authority. So when you screen your baggage at the airport, that's the federal USDA, making sure that you are not bringing agricultural products, plants from Hawaii to the mainland to protect the mainland from pests that we have here that they don't have there. That form that you fill out on the plane is the Hawaii Department of Agriculture, trying to inform everybody that they need to let them know if they have any of those restricted, if they have any plants, any live animals, any soil, anything that could bring an invasive species with them. Hawaii, USDA does not screen coming into Hawaii, just going out to Hawaii, which is kind of like a little one example of Hawaii's problem with invasive species. Like the continental United States has a well developed list of what is going to become invasive in the continental United States. Hawaii has a much different climate, you know, much different environment, it's geographically far away from the mainland, so anything that's you know, if it's on the federal prohibited list, it usually looks at what's going to impact the entire mainland, not just one little Hawaii. And it's hard for us to get something that impacts us on that federal list because it might not become invasive at all on the mainland. So, you know, Representative Case from Hawaii, you know, introduces a bill asking USDA to screen on this side, and to put resources into that. It never has been passed. That would require federal legislation and they just don't do it. One, you know, one thing that other states have that Hawaii doesn't have is their State agricultural inspectors are authorized, under some state mechanism or in cooperation with USDA, to enforce USDA rules. Hawaii doesn't have that. So the US Department of Agriculture has all of these quarantines that it sets up for different pests moving within the United States. But we literally don't have anyone with the authority to stop it when it comes to Hawaii. Because our state inspectors are the only ones that inspect items moving domestically, and they don't have that authority to enforce those federal laws. So federal law can't be you know, it's just a jurisdictional thing. So it is a big hole. And the the place where I've been looking at that a lot lately is with citrus because there's this growing citrus industry in Hawaii. my understanding is the largest lemon farm in the United States is on Maui. There's this disease called citrus greening that affects all but two states and Hawaii is one of them. And, you know, with this new citrus industry coming up, we don't want citrus greening to come because that's what's devastating the citrus industry in the United States and around the world in Florida. We want to keep it out. There's a federal quarantine for the areas that have it and you can't bring that, under federal law, you can't bring certain things from certain areas into Hawaii to prevent that disease from coming, but we don't have anyone standing at the border enforcing it. So it's a big hole.

Alex: 47:17

So Stephanie, do you have any proposed solutions?

Stephanie Easley: 47:22

Well, that one I you know, these solutions would have to be at the legislative level. And it would just be a few sentences in the statute that would authorize the Hawaii Department of Agriculture to deem the agricultural quarantines of the USDA as agricultural quarantines of the state and then who I could enforce it. You know, like the language that it would take to change that is just a few sentences. No one has really expressed any interest as far as I know, in doing that. You know, I worry a lot about the citrus, and that if citrus greening comes, you know, if Florida can't stop it, I doubt we can stop it. And I know there's other ways, you know, perhaps we could have USDA inspectors deputized, Department of Agriculture inspectors deputized by USDA. But really just to let Hawaii, which does not have a big budget for its Department of Agriculture, just let them adopt what the Federal Department of Agriculture, which has offices full of, you know, PhD agricultural scientists trying to figure out the best way to stop these diseases, just say, we'll take that research and enforce it at our border.

Alex: 48:40

Okay, so everybody needs to contact their local representative. Tell them to do something about this.

Stephanie Easley: 48:49

Well, I mean, that like the bigger picture, it would be marvelous if there was legislative focus on the invasive species issue and the noxious weeds issue. There are a few like just small changes in the rules that could make them a lot more functional. Like just to clarify that, if the Hawaii Department of Agriculture sets up a system to designate plants as noxious weeds, that as long as they have public comment and public notice and meet all the due process concerns that they could do that like they used to do it before, you know, between 1981 and 1992. They could do it at the Department level without going through a full rulemaking every time. So every time you wanted to add, you know, whatever the new species was, you could just update the list. For instance, the state of Washington has a great regulation or their statute. I guess, they have to update their list once a year and they know what date it's going, that you have to submit a petition if you're interested in having a species added, then they have a comment period, and then their noxious weed board looks at it, and then every year they have an updated list. And it used to be, you know, in the very beginning, Hawaii Department of Ag did update the list on a regular basis. But because of, so Iʻm looking, like when it was first, when the noxious weed list first took effect in 1951, then it was amended in 56, 57 58, again, in 58, a third time in 58, twice in 59, and then not again till 78, than 81 and 92. So it used to be this very robust, you know, program and list that was frequently amended. But if they had the authority to just do that without going through the full rulemaking and adapt to the current situation, that would let them use their resources to keep the list up to date.

Alex: 50:56

It would fast track this entire process of keeping things up to date.

Stephanie Easley: 51:03

Right, because that's what I mean, like I, I have this checklist of like how you make administrative rules in Hawaii. And I think it has 38 items. And like, some of those items are like prepare a presentation for Small Business Regulatory Review Board and answer all their questions, you have to get on their calendar. You have to go to the Plants and Animals Advisory Committee of Department of Ag. You have to go before the Board of Ag. You have to go to the Small Business Regulatory Review. You have to get approved by the Governor. You have to go to public meeting. You have to go back to Small Business Regulatory Review, back to the Board of Ag, and then you can finalize your rules. So you take an agency that doesn't have enough people to carry out its highest priorities and say, We're gonna put you ag inspectors on this paperwork project, which you know, is incredibly important. But it's not making sure that every package that comes off gets inspected to stop pests, or looking at, you know, the permits and things like that. We're just going to make, we're going to assign you to this for the next year. And it just takes a lot of people to get that done, and they don't have that kind of capacity.

Alex: 52:12

Well, Mahalo, Stephanie and Chuck for everything you do in that regard. It sounds like an uphill battle, especially in terms of the bureaucracy and the finance, the financial backing. But it should be a priority. It definitely needs to be prioritized in terms of protecting not just our ag industry, but the natural ecosystem and environment of what makes this place so unique. In the in the whole scheme of things in the whole world, not just to the United States, but what Hawaii can can provide and in terms of ecology, and natural environmental knowledge to everybody. So if there's anything else you'd like to add, in regards to invasive species and noxious weeds, I'd like to open it up it up the conversation before we kind of like pull back and look at some bigger picture conversation topics.

Stephanie Easley: 53:12

Alex, have you talked about Plant Pono on other episodes of the podcast?

Alex: 53:17

No, not yet. So, I've I've been introduced to Plant Pono on Kauai through people who are affiliated. Could you please explain what Plant Pono is for our listeners?

Chuck Chimera: 53:30

I think I think that's my cue. So, yeah, thanks. Thanks for bringing that up. I wasn't sure when when, uh, when you wanted to talk about that but yeah, I did want to say that this website and this project that I'm involved with Plant Pono. For people who aren't familiar, pono you know, kind of loosely translates as like, right or righteous or doing the right thing. And this website in this program was started a little over 10 years ago, largely through the, the energy and driving force of Stephanie's program manager Christy Martin with with CGAPS. And she had this idea based on similar programs on the mainland, where California in particular has a program called Plant Right. And because this, as we've learned how onerous and difficult it can sometimes be to update rules and legislation, you know, rather than than waiting for that to take effect, projects like Plant Right on the mainland Plant Pono in Hawaii are trying to, you know, be take a more proactive approach and help people to make more informed planning choices about what they use in their yard or in their landscaping or for their horticulture. Things that you know, could be harmful to our environment or agriculture. So this website helps people choose plants based on their growing characteristics and it also incorporates information that I've used through the weed risk assessment to again, place plants into a risk category, how likely they are to become invasive or cause some kind of problem in Hawaii. So I think I mentioned earlier they can they go through this screening and questionnaire that I that I do. And based on how these questions are answered, they're assigned a score and a reading rating of high risk, low risk or kind of this gray area called evaluate or moderate risk. And that just gives people an idea about what types of problems a plant is or is not likely to cause in the islands. And I think I mentioned earlier, this is a voluntary program. So it's not you're not required to abide by the results of a weed risk assessment on the Plant Pono site. But it does allow you to, you know, understand a little bit more about the plants you're choosing. And I kind of compare it a little bit to like a food nutrition label where you can like read about what's inside, you know, a product you're buying. And so it's got this much salt or this much fat. Maybe my cholesterol is a little bit high, maybe I want to avoid that. Same thing about the weed risk assessment. You can look at and say, Oh, this plant is highly flammable, or it can be toxic, or it's invasive in natural areas, and my local invasive species committee is working hard to eradicate this. So part of my tax dollars are going to control this plant, and I'm planting it in my yard, so maybe I should choose something else. So Plant Pono tries to get people to you know, make some you know, more informed choices before they choose a plant and you know, it can probably be. So that's the plant side of things. There are also programs throughout the state, especially on Kauai and on the Big Island where there are Plant Pono endorsed nurseries that have agreed to stop growing certain invasive plants, but also have taken biosecurity precautions and protocols in place to minimize or stop the spread of other invasive species on the island. So, you know, besides plants becoming weeds, plants can also carry pests and pathogens that can harm crops or harm people. So on the Big Island, we have a big problem with the little fire ant and they're very good at catching rides on soil on plants on other materials that get moved around the island. So the Plant Pono endorsed nursery has agreed to you know, treat and inspect their plants to make sure that they're free of a pest like the little fire ant or in some islands like it could be the coqui frog. We don't want to move coqui frogs around the island. Or some other pest or pathogen. Just to you know, prevent the movement or further establishment of a species in a location or even an island where it's not found. So I am only one small part of this Plant Pono program. Every island has an invasive species specialist. Outreach people that use the program that go talks about it. That, on the Big Island, we have a great person Molly Murphy who goes around and meets with nurseries and gives them the plant pono endorsed seal of approval saying that you know they've taken certain protocols into place to, you know, to prevent the movement of invasive species around the island. Kauai has a really good program. The Kauai Invasive Species Council, I mean Committee, has Plant Pono endorsed nurseries over there as well. And then on Oahu and Maui, the ISCs on both those islands are constantly referring people to the Plant Pono site to say hey, maybe maybe when you're choosing your plants, maybe you should check here to see if this could cause a problem before you, before you plant it or you buy it.

Alex: 59:05

Home Depot and Walmart and Targetʻs garden centers are also Plant Ponal approved? Because they they bring in a lot of plants too.

Chuck Chimera: 59:20

Yeah, absolutely. And I know that the different outreach people on the various islands have approached you know individual Home Depots about getting them to pull or maybe remove certain plants or sometimes you know if coqui frog has been detected in a nursery, if you can like quarantine these plants before we can ensure they're free of like a certain pest. I haven't been directly involved with like that, but one of the obstacles I've heard is because they're such like large corporations and they have like you know national buying and contracts and things that it's really difficult. A little bit a little bit like the noxious weed. It's, it's a little bit challenging to get a national chain to locally enforce some rule in Hawaii, because of their, you know, their national reach. But yeah, that is definitely something that has come up before and people have approached individual, you know, large garden shops to see if they would somehow cooperate. And, you know, I can't answer to how receptive they've been. I know that this in some cases, it all depends on the relationship with maybe the particular buyer at that store. And sometimes they've been very receptive and I think sometimes they say,"It's out of my hands. I'm not the I'm not the one who makes. It's above my paygrade." Yeah, that's another. Yeah.

Stephanie Easley: 1:00:58

And it's challenging when they do have these national supply chains, you know, like, maybe all the nursery stock is coming from Dallas, or, you know, Florida, California, to Hawaii. And there's nothing in the regulations that say you can't bring it, you know, we're just asking. And, you know, again, it goes back to that subjective thing. You know, like, one group might feel that it's invasive, someone else might feel that it's a beautiful landscape plant, and that's why, you know, updating these lists for the species that are going to become very invasive in Hawaii is critical, because then you have a tool that they have to abide by where you can, you know, take their merchandise, and not not allow them to import it.

Alex: 1:01:42

Any, any last thoughts on invasive species or noxious weeds and the State of Hawaii?

Chuck Chimera: 1:01:50

Well, one thing, I'll just jump in and say like one thing that I think would really help is, you know, I know it's a little bit of a buzzword, but sustainability. Like locally grown, locally sourced, locally produced products, they might carry invasive species that are already here but we're much less likely to bring in something new invasive plant, a pest, a pathogen, if it's grown here, versus if it's imported from somewhere else. And there are efforts to try to do that in like a lot of different fields. I know, there's been experiments and trials on the Big Island with Christmas tree growing to try to get a locally, you know, produced Christmas tree industry here, because that's another pathway for an invasive pest to arrive in Hawaii. You know, we have a pretty good relationship, I think, with the Oregon Department of Agriculture, where a lot of our imported Christmas trees come from, but I mean, you know, there's still a chance that there could be a hitchhiker coming in on one of those plants that could establish in Hawaii. They think that's a lot of how a lot of our some of our species of yellow jackets have got established here, you know, which are a serious hazard to human health and an environmental problem as well. And, you know, there's news in the past couple of years about these murder Hornets. These giant Asian Hornets that have been detected in Washington. And I'm not saying that they're going to hitchhike on, you know, a Christmas tree shipment but there's always the possibility that something like that could get here. Whereas if we had a locally produced, you know, sourced, you know, Christmas tree or any other crop, pick your pick your crop, you know, at least would only be dealing with the plastopathogens we have. We wouldn't be running the risk of bringing in something new. So grow local is my, my final word. That's been, and that's part of what you're, you're trying to accomplish as well with this program. Right?

Alex: 1:03:54

Yeah. So as a consumer, you know, our message to the general public then is support local. Try buy local. It, you know, you vote with your dollars, and by supporting the local agricultural producer, I mean, Chuck just said, you know, it helps minimize the opportunities for new things to be brought in. So, buy local. Whatever it may be, support local, right? Okay, so, to conclude this conversation, I'd like to kind of look at the bigger picture here. The first question I want to ask both of you is, what challenges have you experienced and observed while working with ag producers in Hawaii, in your in your fields in your capacity? Because because the Seeds of Wellbeing, our our thing is not just addressing and identifying stressors, but offering opportunities, offering this networking, offering this opportunity to build a community so that we can help each other, you know, address the stressors and alleviate those things that are that are holding us all back as ag producers.

Stephanie Easley: 1:04:59

In my role, I really just work on the legal side so I don't have you know a lot to speak to the challenges of, you know, people that I've worked with in the agricultural community. That I will say that challenges on that side are, you know, when H, when HDOA is looking at these very old rules, making sure that the ag community is aware of changes that are going to be made and speaks up when it's an opportunity for public comment, so that their voices are heard, when the rules are changed. And there are Hawaii Department of Agriculture is working right now on the coconut rhinoceros beetle, which is an invasive pest on a Oahu, they have an interim rule related to the movement of it within and from a Oahu. Coconut rhinoceros beetle host material. And they're going to make that permanent, and in doing that, they're going to redo all of the rules related to the inch movement of pests within the state. And I hope that the people in the ag community, I know the Farm Bureau is always, Hawaii Farm Bureau is always up on these things, make sure that when it's time for ag producers to have, to look at that and have their input that they do it. Because that's, you know, Hawaii Department of Agriculture is extremely interested and what they can do to help them with the resources they have.

Alex: 1:06:29

Chuck, you have anything to add?

Chuck Chimera: 1:06:32

I was, you were asking about, like challenges for local ag producers in my, my interaction with them. Because I work with the Hawaii Invasive Species Council I'm constantly like, reminded of like a new problem, a new emerging problem, almost every, I don't want to say every day but like, regularly, there's something new on the radar. Just when you think you've had like every problem you can deal with something new shows up. And it's heartbreaking to hear about a new pest that is, you know, now adding costs to somebody's like livelihood, you know. I mean, on the Big Island, there's a lot of like small, small, like farmers, small agricultural producers, and you know, they have a hard enough time it is as it is, with all the pests that are here already. With the cost of doing, everything is more expensive here, like you know, fertilizer products that you bring in, everything is more expensive. And then you add on the cost of having to deal with a new invasive species and it's just like, it's heartbreaking. You know, whether it be like you're growing cacao, and then there's a new beetle that shows up that's boring into your plants. Or you're a coffee grower and you have the, you know, coffee berry borer, or the coffee rust. Or, you know, you're just a local, you know, you have fruit trees in your yard, and then your avocado is getting attacked by a lace bug. Everything, like adds to the cost of living here. So I would just like, you know, you know, really emphasize again, like, you know, the decisions we all make, can affect our friends, our neighbors, our colleagues, part of our community, and, you know, if, if for nothing else, you know, like, you know, be conscious of, of your own choices, because they couldn't just affect you, they could affect everybody around you. And, yeah, I the only other thing I'd say is like, you know, I would hope people not only vote with their dollars, but really support, you know, legislation that protects our natural environment and our agriculture. Because, you know, we are really so isolated out here that, you know, we, weʻre, it's a special place. And, you know, we should really like treat it that way. And I know a lot of people do, but yeah. We have all the invasive species we need. We don't need any more.

Alex: 1:08:56

Thanks, Chuck. I'd also like to add to that, in terms of legislation like and to the general public as well, not just to politicians, but get to know get to know a farmer, check out a farmer, check out a farm. Get to know some farmers, some some agricultural producers in your area. And for me in terms in terms of policy and in terms of solutions coming from the government from our from our local representatives, who are you know, senators or representatives in Honolulu, in the Capitol. They can only be as effective as they are informed and educated and unless our representatives our politicians themselves have experience farming, they are not going to make informed decisions and informed policies with with limited understanding of what it takes to be a farmer. So and the same can be said with public education. How many politicians are in there right now, making policies and laws that affect HDOE H.D.O.E. the DOE, Department of Education, and they have zero experience teaching. It's the same thing with agriculture. Like, if you're making the laws and farm about farming, if you're making laws that affect agricultural commerce and the economy, you need to get involved with the ag community. You need to understand what it takes to be a farmer in Hawaii, as a politician. If you're representing us, you need to be informed, you need to have some experience. That same goes with education, right? If you're making if you as a politician, are making laws that affect public education, K through 12, you got to spend some time in the classroom. Right? That's what it boils down to. Otherwise, there's this huge disconnect and change will not happen. Policies will not be effective. They will not be enforced and regulated properly. And they will not be implement implemented to any degree of change. And so that's just a little salt, pepper and spice to add to that. But I guess my final my final final question is, do you have any additional thoughts, opinions and advice about the current state, the current status of agriculture in the state of Hawaii, and how it can be improved upon in terms of economic viability, sustainability and food security? And it doesn't have to be necessarily in your your area of expertise, but just, you know, as as a resident living here, like, how, how do you see agriculture improving and growing, with with sustained growth, right permanent growth, and not just this constant status quo, ebb and flow of what we're seeing. Low prioritization of farming, low prioritization of food security, low prioritization of preserving agricultural zone land, in the state of Hawaii,

Chuck Chimera: 1:11:55

I was just going to reiterate like kind of what I said earlier, I mean, you said it really well too. You vote with your dollars, and, you know, sometimes local products, you know, oftentimes they can be, you know, more expensive, but that's because, like, everything in Hawaii, is more expensive. You know, the cost of land, the cost of like, fertilizer, everything, you know. But if you can afford to support local agriculture, if you can visit your local farmers market, if you can buy local produce, if you can, just like, you know, if you can do that, if you can vote with your dollars, I think that that would really make a big difference, not only with, like, as I mentioned, the invasive species issue, like we're going to reduce the risk of bringing something in from the outside, but, you know, we're going to keep money within the state going back into our local economy. And then just when you see agricultural initiatives coming up, you know, at your county or your state legislature to support agriculture, to protect local agriculture, you know, to attend those meetings, to submit testimony to vote for politicians that support those kinds of things. Because, I mean, you know, being a being a farmer, or being, you know, a nursery grower, it's a labor of love. You know, people I don't, I don't think get into that, because they think they're going to make it rich, they do it because they love plants, or they love growing or producing. And it's hard enough as it is so anything we can do to support that either, you know, through our own, like purchasing, or through some kind of like legislation to help help people out, that would be you know, my, my constant, you know, my constant plug. And, and, yeah, Stephanie has anything to add?

Stephanie Easley: 1:13:40

I'll echo what Chuck said, I think that's the answer, and vote with your dollars, but also vote with your vote. You know, make sure that you vote on the local and state and then the national elections, but you know, your county officials can have a big impact on agriculture. Your Representatives and Senators in the State legislature, you know. Make sure that you vote for the ones who are supporting local ag who are making it a priority, who are interested in working on legislation to modernize the ag statutes and to provide support.

Alex: 1:14:18

Well, mahalo nui loa, both of you, for your time and and your experience and the knowledge that you shared today. My big takeaway, number one, try buy local, right? Support local ag. And number two, Plant Pono, right? If you're going to buy something at the store to plant on your property, check out the list first. The noxious weed list, the invasive species list and the Plant Pono lists.

Stephanie Easley: 1:14:41

Right, and it's a website, right? So you can have it on your phone when you're at the store looking at what's in the nursery and what you're interested in taking home. You know, you can use it right there while you're there.

Alex: 1:14:53

It's that easy. It's that easy. So mahalo. Aloha. A hui ho.

Stephanie Easley: 1:15:00

This was really fun Alex. Thanks very much.

Chuck Chimera: 1:15:02

Well, yeah, thanks Mahalo.

Thao: 1:15:11

We want to thank our guests for their generosity and manao. We also want to thank all our ag producers throughout the islands, and especially those we have heard on the podcast for discussing ways they address the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual dimensions of Hawaii and production. Each story each voice contributes to a broader understanding of what it takes to survive and thrive as we feed our communities. Wherever you may find yourself within our island agricultural economies, if you would like to share your story in our podcast, please contact us. Thank you for listening to the Seeds of Wellbeing "Voices From the Field" podcast featuring their perspectives of ag producers throughout the Hawaii islands. If you have found it helpful, please follow like and share this episode with others. And if you have any ideas about how we can make it better, please let us know in the comments or use the link on our website. Mahalo for tuning in. The intention of these podcast series is to create a safe space for a respectful and inclusive dialogue. With people from across a broad and diverse spectrum involved in growing and making accessible the food we share together. A diversity of voices perspectives and experiences can serve to deepen mutual understanding, to spark creative problem solving, and provide insight into the complexities of our agricultural system. If you, our listeners, have experiences with Hawaii agricultural ecosystem from indigitous methods, permaculture, smallholder farmers, to large including multinational agricultural industrial companies, and everywhere in between, and you would like to share your story, please contact us. We welcome your voices and perspectives