Episode 215: It Was An Impossible Thing

This week, we watch Episode Two of Alex Garland's series, Devs (2020), and discuss atheism, quantum computers, and lounge music.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to season 10 of I'm Your Buddy with Nick and William, the podcast where two best friends are watching and discussing the filmography of writer-director Alex Garlin. And today we are continuing with his television series Devs with episode two. I am Nick, who loves Alex Garlin. Now William, I also love Alex Garlin. And I used what do you say after this in the intro for some reason.

SPEAKER_04 0:27

We already got there. We're there. We don't need it. I don't even think they have titles. Yeah. That's what I was about to say. Is I miss uh having surprise titles for you. That's always fun. It was fun with Better Call Soul. Yeah. Because they get clever.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

But yeah, these are episode number, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Okay, yeah, that makes sense. So you didn't have anything to say anyway. Uh how's it going, William? How are you doing today? We are running solo today. Yeah, just me and you. Which I think for the uh did we what was the movie right before Dev's? Annihilation. And we had somebody for that? Nope. Okay. That's just us. We have had a lot of guests this season so far. I can't remember. But no, because it just feels like we're hanging out. That's a testament to our you know friends, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

But we get good guests on that help with that. So except one of them. And I won't say which. You guys got a guest.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yeah, you guys figure it out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27

Uh but yeah, how's it going? It's okay. Uh work is insane right now. I'm so glad we got to do this today and not tomorrow, because I have a very important big presentation meeting tomorrow that I'm doing, so I have to wear a suit to work. I was like, I don't want to come here and hang out with Leo in a suit.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Yeah, exactly. It definitely gets stained.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

Yeah, but yeah, tomorrow uh in the morning. I wish it was a band. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Isn't that guy country now?

SPEAKER_04 1:53

Yes. Yeah, they all take that route. Yep, yep. A lot of white hip hop acts take that route too. Yep. Yeah. Very common thing. But uh yeah, so I work in employee benefits and we work with brokers who typically, if you have a group, if you have a company, you hire an insurance broker that gets all that information from health, life, uh, vision, dental, they do it all for you. Yeah. I work with a lot of those brokers, so we have a we have an advisory committee of about 20 of them, and tomorrow is our big meeting with them that I run. Yeah. And my my bosses and our senior management will be in the meeting. Yeah. But it's just me running it. So I gotta put on a show tomorrow, and I'm very stressed, but it'll be you'll be fine.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

You can if you're good at public speaking.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Yeah, people think you're funny. It's it'll I don't know why. I don't know either. I I have no examples of this.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

And I don't think I'd uh the two words that I thought I would never hear you say are advisory committee.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

Yeah, I'm in charge in spearheading an advisory committee.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

So such a corporate term that I never thought I would do.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

Yeah, I remember I did uh This is Bill Ernst over here. Well, I did uh white collar businessman. I did a meeting in Roswell, and one of the guys that we went to school with, Mac, because it was for the city of uh Roswell, he was there because he's a city worker, and he was like, What the hell? And I was like, hey man, he's like, Oh man, you you're like professional. Like it blew his mind. He couldn't. We sat and talked for like 20 minutes, and like at least four different times. He's like, I just what the hell? Like it blew his mind that I was like, my shirt was tucked in, and I was like, Yes, sir, no sir, I know things. Like, yeah, it's very funny. I get it. Mac's a good guy. Mac is a great man, salt of the earth.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

He lives dude. You know, another reference of one of your favorite bands. Uh, he lives about three doors down from my dad, actually.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

Your dad, my superman.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, very, very close neighbors. They their dogs uh get along and run around and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

That's cute. I like that. That makes me happy because Mac's such a nice boy.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Yeah, and he's got some kids and they run around my dad's yard every once in a while. They have a little bridge, and I guess when they were kids, they or little little kids, they liked my dad's yard.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Mac has kids. Oh, cool. Must be nice. Interesting. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

I don't know how I I think it's two or three. I can't remember. But that's cool. Greedy? Yeah, and his wife is a I don't know what she does now. She was awesome. She was a lawyer for a while. Yeah. I met her. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

She probably makes a lot of money. She's very attractive.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Way to go, Mac. I don't think she's a lawyer anymore, I don't think. Because she really hated it. Yeah, it was a fascinating to watch. Um, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

You used to do the lawyer depositions. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

So I don't know what she does now, but might work for the city too, actually. I don't know. Yeah, no, no. Mac spent way too much playing time on this.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

I yeah, exactly. God damn, third chair Mac Rogers is from Ros from Goddard High School.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

I haven't talked to him in 20 years.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

People that went to Goddard High School haven't talked about Mac as much as me and you on this fucking podcast right now.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Oh, yeah. Only Graham knows who we're talking about. Yeah, a single listener.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

Damn it. Sorry, I guess. And your dad. Yeah. Your dad knows Mac Rogers more than uh it's just annoying me how much we spoke about this guy. And so many nice things. He's got a wife and kids, and he's happy and speaking of life things.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

How is the new house filling in?

SPEAKER_04 5:35

New house is good. I feel very comfortable there.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Or filling up, I guess, maybe with you know paintings and I hate yeah, I uh put all my feel up, but fill well, yeah. I guess yeah, my bad.

SPEAKER_04 5:47

Grody too. No, yeah, it's it's coming together. I still haven't painted and I don't have an air conditioner yet because I'm lazy and haven't called. I will. I have a quote, I have two quotes. I get to pick my company on Bell of the Ball. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

But other than that, yeah, no, the place is good. I'm like it, Aunt Shepard's comfy. I think technically he's only fallen down the stairs one time. That's good. You know, he he wigs out every once in a while. Kinda, yeah, a father like son. After he takes a crap, he goes and runs around and gets like energy. Yeah. And I think one time he he he went up the stairs, he was messing about upstairs, and I think he just went down too fast. And he he might have he might have skipped a few.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

He's he's nimble.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

Yeah, I I did exactly what people do with human children, is I didn't act alarmed. I just gauged if he's okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

I was like, walk in, you could. I was like, okay, I I won't act like I'm scared. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

Everything's fine, no big deal. That's hilarious. I did the exact same thing, but yeah, I haven't fallen down the stairs. Almost, maybe two, three times.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah, a few. I get close. Do you walk around with socks or no? I have shoes. Okay, that's smart. House slippers. Yeah, but they can be slippery.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

They're they have grip, but the time that I almost fell, I had socks, no shoes.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Yeah, socks are dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Definitely stairs. Yeah, wood floor stairs.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

But house shoes are a good idea.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

But yeah, no, it's it's definitely uh it feels good. I like it. I enjoy it. I think it's nice. Got my bidet set up, got my pull-up bar set up, got my switch to. What more do you need? And I, for the first time in maybe two years, play drums finally. Oh, nice. Or just set them up. They're in my second room, my office room. Nice. And uh, thanks to you, got a chord, can charge my iPad. Oh, yeah. And I use that to play drums to songs sometimes to like warm up and practice. So that was fun. Sick. Yeah, was playing trying to get back into playing uh very fun song to play, Feeling This by Book 182. Nice. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, so that's my warm-up song. Sick. Yeah, but yeah, that's fun. I need to get back into doing something other than contemplating life. Because that's not fun. No, that's the opposite of fun, I'll tell you, fucking that. God damn. Uh, have you how's the garage situation? I just put my trash in it. I don't do anything else with it. I don't park in it, I don't go in it, I don't look at it, I put my trash in it.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

That's funny. That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

My dad was like, oh, I'll come down and build shelves. It's like, one, you won't. Two, I don't want you to, don't worry about it. Yeah, yeah. I don't use it anyway, so I don't look at it.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

No, it's so funny.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

I honestly, other than the drums, I don't use the second room at all. I haven't worked from home since I moved. That's where my stuff is. Because I have a a small little desk in my living room that I edit the podcast and have my laptop with.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:54

So that second room is just a waste. Yeah. And the bathroom, but that's for I don't know. When I so when I start making music, I'm gonna that's what that room will be used for. Yeah, it makes sense. Not for kids. I don't have any. Not yet. Not yet.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Not ever.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

More that you know of. Nope. Lost my penis.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

In a fit of rage and ripped it and threw it out the window.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Well, you know. Castrati, you know, why not? It could help with the singing career.

SPEAKER_04 9:21

Yeah, I wish. Yeah. I think I'm too old for that, too. I fucked up. I fucked up, Nick. I did it wrong. I don't know. I did it in the wrong order.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

I mean You're supposed to do it when you're younger. I fucked up.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Your high-pitched voice has been the subject on two episodes in a row. Yep. So you never know, actually. It's true. You know? You never know until you try, William.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

I should try. I should try removing my penis if it helps my voice and people like me. Well, it should be testicles. See, I would do it wrong, and I'm like, Doctor, it's still not working. My voice sounds the exact same, just sadder, more hollow.

SPEAKER_04 9:56

He's like, Yeah, it's the testicles that holds the testosterone. I was like, So you're saying I gotta, he's like, Don't worry about it, you don't have testosterone, anyways. Yeah, yeah. It's like so removing the balls wouldn't have done. He's like, nah, you just lost your penis for no reason.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

So there's that. He's like, I don't know. You you you want to me like I'll take your nose off and give you a deformed one.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

Like, it's not even worth it. I'd be sitting down half the time anyway. So yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

What's the point? Yeah, yeah. This doctor's license should be taken away.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Yeah, he just shrugs it off. He still smokes when I see him. Yeah, yeah. He asks too close to me. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:34

He does say what do you want from me a lot, which I don't think any medical practicing doctor should say ever. But he does a lot of what do you want from me? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Your your expertise. He's like, No, man, I'm busy. No, he's out of here.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

He's too busy burning down the long ash on his cigarette. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 10:54

Those slims. How are you? How are you feeling? How's your uh how's your brain and everything? Garbage.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah, maintaining it's it's bad. Well, I mean, Leo had some stomach thing. Yeah. Kira's had uh had it a little bit, but then she has been hurting because after she had a tap performance this weekend. Luckily, afterwards, she was walking to get back her her stuff from the back. And since she's walking in tap shoes on a slippery floor, she fell. Oh shit. Like cartoon fell. Yeah. Feet went over the head thing. Yeah, feet went over and she landed right on her tailbone. So she's been hurting from that. And so yeah, just you know, family's been ailing a little bit. Leo's feeling better, which is good. And then work's, you know, they're doing some testing, so been it's been moderately busy. And then goddamn, the production slash fulfillment stuff for the comic book. Yeah, it's just gonna be a lot. Yeah, it's just a lot. So I've been having, you know, we're we're by this time that this episode comes out, we're gonna have a series Instagram, which is Instagram.com slash Redeemer Comic. So it's just the same as the website Redeemer Comic. So go follow that if you haven't already by the time that this comes out. We're just gonna funnel all of the social media stuff through that, just so it's not on our personal accounts, basically, you know. So and and we we're gonna run all the part two campaign through that and all that stuff. So nice, but I'm preloading some posts onto that. So I'm building six posts and I'm building the the first backer survey, which is for what name would you like in the thank you page credits? What's your shipping address, uh, here's your shipping cost, and that's it. So that's gonna go out. And all the local people that bought it don't have to. Obviously, I'll just hand deliver everything to them. But so now I gotta do estimated weights of all the products. I gotta do the estimated weights of the packages that are gonna go out, and I'll talk a little bit more I think a little bit later about it because it ties this kind of stuff, organizing all the shit kind of ties into devs tons. Some of the yeah, no, it does like one of the things I want to bring up and talk about a little bit, but goddamn, it's just a lot of fucking work. You know, pages are still moving. Saw a couple more colored pages, look fucking great. Mauricio is almost done with the pencils and inks, and I paid him, which is nice. So now he's he's caught up with money for the campaign, so that's good. But I gotta build a whole fucking spreadsheet for that too. Yeah, just it's a lot. Just busy boy, just fucking tired. But it's starting to work out again, which is good after the shingles thing, so that's feeling good, slowly getting back into that. That helps. Yeah, but yeah, brain is garbage. Yeah, when you guys were over here on the weekend, playing Resident Evil Requiem. Correct. I was working on yeah, the some of those six posts, and literally I was banging my head, and I found I do this in the fucking public library on my lunch breaks during the week, and I'm like, God, who the people just see me. No, exactly. I look so fucking crazy right now because my hair is long, my beard is long. I'm like, oh yeah, I look like an insane person.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

It looks like you're gonna say nope, and then stand up and pull something out of your backpack, go, uh-uh, I'm over it. Everyone's like, oh shit.

unknown 14:21

Oh shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Shaking my nope. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Like, what the fuck? Luckily, Sony has PM.com looking at MLB stats. You're like, nope.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Luckily, they've seen me there a lot, but uh, and I haven't got any scenes so far. But yeah, it's my I've literally had to jog my memory about these things. It's just And by jog you mean physically. Yeah, just like knock and be like, okay, wait, what was the word I was looking for in terms of what I was trying to do?

SPEAKER_04 14:50

Yeah, it's the word is jelking. I have never heard that. Yes, you have. It's the word you were looking for. Okay. It's the medical procedure where you squeeze your penis to elongate it by forcing.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Well, I mean, the name does match the action, I guess. So at least it's appropriately named. But yeah, I'm just I'm I'm tired. Yeah, I think my brain is just like, oh, I thought I'd get more of a break after the after the campaign, which it did, you know. But in terms of having to do all this management stuff, it's just like oh fuck, I just want to go back to writing. But it's okay, I'll get there eventually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

Um again, all good pro problems to have because you're you're physically creating the thing now. You wrote it, but now it's becoming a physical thing, which is uh really exciting, really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah, and about once a week, yeah, Mauricio will show me the new page that he's working on. And I literally told him I'm like, this is the fucking lifeblood. Like, yeah, yeah, thank you for showing me this. You have to show me those things because this is the only thing that's making me like keep it together, is seeing the book come to life. So it's really fucking cool. And yeah, some of these later pages are super sick, yeah. Very cool. Uh, but yeah, so I'm just tired, just burnt out. But hey, it's not gonna stop. As soon as we fulfill everything, we're gonna do book two. So yeah, yeah, but it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

Uh, do you ever think about doing a smaller, shorter one? I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Yeah, exactly. And that guy's getting some art because he's buddies with Mauricio, and I'm like, well, you know what I have to ship it to him, so yeah, maybe that one gets lost in the mail. Did you pay? And goes up on my fucking wall instead. No, it's all right.

SPEAKER_04 16:36

Just uh McGruber style, just mail him a box of turds.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Just Leo's constipation dumps. Just mail him Leo's dumps. Just right out fuck you.

SPEAKER_04 16:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

That's a good idea. I might have to think about that. Is this small enough for you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Yeah. Nick, no, it's not. Stop listening to me. I don't have a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

That's all right. Uh I did listen to some music. Nice. Other than Bad Booneie. Yes, other than Bad Booneie.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

Well, quick, can I interrupt? I don't remember if I told you. I listened to Bad Booneie.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Oh, good. Super cool. It's a great record.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

The first track in. I was like, yeah, this is so much fun. Yeah. This is uh yeah. If I wanted to ever if I was ever the type of person that was like in a good mood with people around me, and I was like, I want to play something for fun energy. Yeah. It's like, yeah, I totally get this. Oh yeah. Yeah. This is this is barbecue summertime. Absolutely. We're enjoying ourselves music. I mean, there are some. Therefore, I will never listen to it again.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

There are some slower songs. Yeah, there's some slower melancholy ones in there for sure. Ballads, if you will. Yeah, which Leo's always like, it's a different song or whatever. Or he's like, play mama's favorite. He thinks Kira's favorite Bad Bunny song is a Cardi B song, which Bad Bunny is on. Which Kira does enjoy.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

It is very bodega baddie one.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

No, it's um I like it like that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, where she remixes that. But it's literally her talking about like getting her pussy beat up.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

And so luckily Leo's talks about. Yeah. He has a note. But she does say, uh, I think she says a line like, Get my coins like Mario. So he's like, I know Mario. Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Luckily so far he hasn't recognized, oh, beat it up.

SPEAKER_04 18:23

That's referring to forcefully fucking a vagina. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. Put an M on your head. You're Luigi's brother now. Don't worry about it. It's a rapper's lyric.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. Another Mario reference. That's good. But that's yeah, it's it's a fucking killer record. I love that reference. Yeah, still. What else you listen to? But I listened to at Dave Jordan's recommendation, the Robin album. Okay. Which has something about sex in it. Sure. And I love what you choose to listen to. It's so funny. No, he said it was weird production. So I listened to the first song.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

I'm like, okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah, Robin's uh she can be unexpected. I have no I have no reference for no frame of reference for. I'm sure I've heard the song that made her popular a long time ago. What was it in the 90s or something? I don't know. I think so.

SPEAKER_04 19:14

Yeah, she's been a big deal for a while. Um cross the pond, as they say. And also with other people. Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Um so oh yeah, because she is from Sweden, it looks like. Okay, but yeah, so I listen, I I was like, oh, because he said, Oh, I'm listening to this record because it's specifically because of the production. And I'm like, that sounds intriguing to me. So I put it on, and yeah, the production's very interesting, crazy electronic chip tune mixed with like pop music. But it's it's one of these things where it's like and every and it's it's throughout the entire record. Every song has some weird electronica thing. Yeah, but it's all EDM techno, yeah, literally like chip tunes, almost video game adjacent stuff. But so very fascinating production stuff. That's you know, you love some electronics. No, I do. I I I really do. And it and the record feels like it's influenced by a lot of younger pop stars, you know, like Gen Z stuff, you know, because she's she's a Venom. She's an elder millennial or whatever, yeah. Yeah, very influenced by modern pop. And yeah, the I really like the instrumentations, very cool, some fun pop stuff. But yeah, as I'm not gonna listen to it again, but it was a fun uh listen to her, and yeah, Dave is correct. The production you're like, oh shit, this goes really hard into these kind of niche electronic genres while doing like pop hooks and stuff. And the pop hooks aren't didn't really grab me very much. Her voice isn't very that strong or interesting to me, but in terms of uniqueness, but yeah, cool instrumentation and like it's and it's solid the whole way through. So it's like a you know, it's a whole then not a concept record, but the sound permeates the entire record, which I appreciate. So yeah, but I as soon as I listened to it too, I knew two things, or I thought of two things. I thought of you saying, like, oh, of course he'll fucking listen to this thing because Dave. Anything but anything, J. Cole, literally anything, and then and then different languages. You have more, yeah, Bad Booney, but that's your language. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Not yours, and you're listening to it five, six times a day.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

It's yeah, such a great record. I love it. I really was looking up the vinyl to buy it the other day. It's so good. I love that album. Uh so I thought about you getting pissed, which worked. That's good, that's good. There it is. And then I thought about Dave Jordan, and this is hypothetical, funny, like in my head making fun of Dave Jordan. It's about her like fucking dudes or something. So she's like she's in her 40s, she's you know, talking about sex and all this kind of stuff, and and the cover is her like reaching her arms up and It looks like she's not wearing a bra or something like that, but you don't see any tits. Weak. Um, but but uh trash it. But but when I was listening to it, I've pictured the fictional version of Dave Jordan like putting this on and then being hearing like a 40-year-old lady talk about sex, and he's like, Oh, this is really good. Like he starts sacheting a little bit, yeah, exactly. Like Dave just being into it because it's an older woman talking about sex because Dave's in his 40s, so it's just age joke. And then he just pitches it to people as like, Oh, yeah, the production is really interesting, but it's really he's just getting horned up. I don't know, it's very sexual. He's like, What? Wow, I didn't hear that. Yeah, I don't really. I'm not really a lyrics guy. The sound, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:46

Soundscape is what uh grabbed me. So I think something else grabbed you. Yeah, so that's my uh fictional.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

I do love this. Yeah, it's uh that's fun.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Nice, not too long.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

No, nine songs. Nice. Nine's good. Yeah, it was it was good. So yeah, fun. Just listen to a record I never listened to her from a person I've never heard songs from. And it was like, okay, cool, this is fun to run to. Fun recommendation.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

I won't listen to it again, but you know, it's one of those things you just experience. You're like, okay, cool, yeah, I get I get where he's coming from.

SPEAKER_04 23:19

Where she's had a story career for decades. You're like, eh, I guess she knows a thing or two.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Yeah, you know, you can tell, you know, she's good at the pop stuff for sure. But yeah, yeah. But yeah, so what have you been listening to anything else? You said besides uh feelin' this, Blink 182, you listen to Yeah, I'm drumming to Feelin' This by Blink 182 on their self-titled. And then what sad bastard William? How are the new Jack White songs?

SPEAKER_04 23:48

What? There's new Jack White songs, yeah. He has like two singles. Dude, I'm my my brain is mush. I didn't even put our uh clip out on Monday. I've forgotten I did it today. I just noticed that. Yeah, no, my brain is complete mush. I've been listening to uh J. Cole, Vin Staples, uh James Blake, and this is the one you're waiting for. An insane amount of Frank Ocean. Okay, and maybe just a few very specific songs, but I can't stop listening to Frank Ocean. The ones about making our dudes. I wish I could say the ones that I was listening. I wish I could come in and go, you know what? Forrest Gump really speaks to me. That's the one. Forrest Gump's the one. No, it's White Ferrari. And when Justin Vernon from Bonnie Vare comes in at the end, I'm like, that's not fair. You're not supposed to do that to me while I'm on my break at work, and I gotta go back inside feeling weird. So getting a boner or crying? No, it's very sad. Lots of sad. All right. Frank Ocean has a song I've spoken about many times, and I can't stop listening to it night. I talked about the guitars in the weird times stuff. No, I God, I I wish. I need more backwards guitar. It's one of my favorite things in the world.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

There you go, Dave. Yeah. Next pedal.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

Dave, if yeah, I I I would pay$600 for a sweet reverse pedal from Dave.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah, and you could name it like some kind of like uh thing that works. What's the what do they callindrome? Palindrome. Like race car.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Race car is a palindrome. Yeah, like they teach kids with dilak dyslexia palindromes. But yeah, but something in the metal thing. That would be cool. Yeah. Um doom and mood or something like that. I like this. I like this idea. That'd be fun. Dave, get with Nick on this. He's the idea guy. Yeah. He has a song called Nights, and then he has a is a K-N-I-G-H-T-S? No, it's nighttime nights. N-I-T-E-S. And he has a line where he says, Did you call me from a seance? You were from my past life. And I'm fixated on how clever of a way to say that is. Yeah, yeah. That's neat. And I just play it back over and over. Definitely fixated on things where my brain's just like, do that again. Do that again. Do that again. That made me feel something. That made me feel something.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

That made me feel something. Yeah, for sure. And is this on Chanel Orange?

SPEAKER_04 26:13

No, this is on uh how many records does he have? Two. Blonde, okay. Yeah. He's made names. I've only listened to Chanel Orange. He has the nostalgia ultra. I guess it counts as a mixtape, but you've never heard Blonde or Nostalgia Ultra? You'd like all three. All three. I mean, production's great on all three. Uh the Blonde is the one that everyone's like, this might be the greatest album of the last couple years. Like, you're not getting some that sounds like this. This is so unique, and it blew everybody away because of the uniqueness and the emotional blah blah blah to it. So yeah, he he goes for it on that one. Blonde's the one.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Yeah, I need to listen to it. I need to try uh Chanel Orange, I couldn't get into. I tried to listen to it. Too laid back.

SPEAKER_04 26:59

Yeah, there's something you're not a laid back guy.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Exactly. I'm i I struggle with RB.

SPEAKER_04 27:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Like as much as I, you know, the lyrical content or or you know, whatever cool lines, and these people are great singers and they always work with great producers and great musicians. But like, yeah, laid back. I can't you don't like a pocket. It's hard, yeah. I don't know. I just need something to groove, I need something to lock into. And if it's like really relaxing, I'm just like, oh god, bored. Like nothing's hooking me, you know what I mean? Yeah, a little more energy. Yeah. Yeah, but I I'd like to try it out.

SPEAKER_04 27:36

Yeah, I'll have to Yeah, I I like I can I can enjoy laid back more than you can, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Yeah, I just yeah, it doesn't something doesn't click with my brain with it. But yeah, I'll give it a try though. Definitely. I'll listen, I'll listen. No, I'll listen to that. But it's hard to can I run to it? Probably not.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

No, and that's what it's so funny you said that because while you were talking, I've been thinking about this because me and you haven't talked about stuff in a while. Because when we have guests, we we either oddly fight or we just get to it. But I was like, yeah, if you're only listening to music while you're running, you're not crazy to have it, it it's gotta match your activity. Somewhat. That is I think also it changes the experience of listening to the album is the activity. Sure. You know, a nighttime drive album is gonna hit you way better than if you played it or like in the house loud while doing chores.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

You know, and like I totally get that, or like driving in the car versus headphones, all of these things are for a guy that likes an album. You like a start to finish. I need to know what your concept of why you made it, how you made it, what your full vision is. You gotta factor in if someone was like, This is you gotta sit with headphones in a dark room and it's just for that, or this is to be played loud, big speakers. Like, you gotta take that into account. Yeah, so it does a disservice if I told you to like I really like the new James Blake album, Trying Times. Yeah, don't run to that album. No, that's not a run album, yeah. And you won't like it. Yeah, and then you gotta come and tell me a thing I like you don't like, and I'm like, but you didn't do it right.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

But I like I listen, I watched that music video where he's cool. That's good, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Shout out Welsh uh male choir.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah, that's good. But yeah, and I'll you know, listening uh to slower records in the truck, I'll do that. Like uh at work and stuff like that, or driving to work, I can do that. But yeah, usually on runs, if it it doesn't have to be high energy, it can be lower energy if I'm used to the if I've it's a record I've listened to before. But like first listens are tough if it's a slower.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

That was that's been my shower argument against you, which I truly don't care. It's it's maybe like 40% or 30% real 70 joke is like you're never gonna finish this J. Cole album. No, because you heard things before the album. You heard I like it, you heard he's corny, and you heard some people don't like, so you've already built in, I'm probably not gonna like this. No, and it's long, and you're like, this ain't for me. And in my head, my shower argument is you listened to a sci-fi lounge album.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

So good.

SPEAKER_04 30:41

And you're like, oh, I love lounge, and almost exclusively on runs, actually. That's what I'm saying. That got me so upset in my own head of if I ever gave you that album and it was a band you've never heard of, and I said, Nick, it's a lounge album about some bullshit in Mars, and you'd be like the moon, William. William, I'm never gonna listen to that. Sounds like the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. And I'm like, no, it's lounge music. You would go, go, fuck yourself. It would never break through, but it comes out. No, and then I'd listen to it and be like, oh, that sounded great.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

No, but yeah, it upset me in my head. Of course, of course.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

You asshole.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

But yeah, because I did exclusively listen to the Tranquility Bass, Hotel and Casino because that was pandemic. Tranquility Bass, Hotel and Casino. Oh, so good. Such a fucking great record.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

Such a great record. That lounge album. It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

The Artic Monkeys and Richard Cheese is Nick's bag. Amazing. Come on, Bublay. You can't take booblay away from white people. I mean, it's within us, you know what I mean? I get it. I don't know why I'm defending booblay. Well, he's he's a national treasure for you people. But that was like a pandemic record where I was running a lot during the pandemic listening to the album. With the J. Cole record. It's none of those things. I don't why would I not why would I want to actively that's the only thing that's like a lot of people?

SPEAKER_04 32:05

It's the premise of this podcast, why we even started this.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

No, the only the only thing that I like doing that about with you is Friday Night Lights. The rest of it, I what I don't have anything to I don't want to discriminate against music people because you like them and it'd be funny to not like them. I don't I hope J. Cole's good. But the with the with the J. Cole record, okay. Sorry, let me address the things you said. I it's not because you like him. Yeah, it's not because he's corny. I don't care about him being corny. I just think that's I I like the idea of Mike Sanchez saying that he's corny to pit him against you. That's funny. Yeah. But I don't give a shit if he's actually corny. Then the other one of it is long, yes. It's an hour and a half. I fucking hate that. But it's a double disc. Which at one point in my life when I was a teenager, I like double disc records because it's it's that time in my life where I like just want to consume as much as possible. Yes. Bonus tracks on records, live albums, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, exactly. Hidden tracks. Used to love that kind of stuff. Not so much now. I don't have time for that shit. Um, but yeah, so that's boony. Exactly. Because that and it's it is a long record.

SPEAKER_04 33:11

The Rakens calling. Yeah, trust me, that was also in my uh deposition in my shower that I brought up.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Every song has a part that tingles my dingle. So the length, eh, that's a strike. That's real. That's that's real. That is the real one.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

All the others are in my head because I'm arguing you.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

The real is and the second one, genuinely. If you don't like rap. No.

unknown 33:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

It's not that I don't like rap. I think it is. It's that the production sounds old as fuck. It doesn't sound new. I don't want you don't like new production. I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

I just want good shit.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

You see what I'm saying? I just want something that has either a hook or it has an interesting composition, and the songs that I heard from that record had neither. They just sounded like they were made 20 years ago. And I'm like, okay, maybe that's when you came up. I don't know enough about the guy.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

And that's what I'm saying. If if you're saying old as a criticism, my brain would go, well, that's it is different from old. You wouldn't like modern rap either. Yeah. You I don't think you really liked the clips album. I think you were like, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Yeah, I th yeah, I listened to it when I run.

SPEAKER_04 34:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Yeah, but it was fine.

SPEAKER_04 34:28

Yeah. I don't know if you loved the Kendrick album, Good Not Great, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

I really like I did really enjoy the Kendrick record because it has fun, interesting musical things.

SPEAKER_04 34:38

Even though very energetic when it's big and energetic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

But yeah, we all know I'm not lyrics first. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

And that's why I said I don't think you like rap, you like some rap.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Sure. But you don't like rap. But that's how I am about everything. I like I don't like all punk rock. I like some punk rock. I don't like all uh lounge music.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

And yeah, you motherfucker. I don't know. I just love this one.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

I don't love all reggaeton. I just love this one boonie record. I love it so fucking much. Yeah, so that's that's just me. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:18

But that's what that's I don't like a genre, I like a band. And in my head, I was like, that's the real of like, because you go, oh, I need a thing to grab me. I'm like, I can break down every song, even the ones I don't like. I was like, there's a thing. I was like, but it's not the stuff you want out of music. Because you don't you don't like rap this way.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

No, you respect his lyricism, you like all that kind of stuff. I don't give a fuck. Yeah, and that's I was like, that is what rap is.

SPEAKER_04 35:47

Yeah. I completely agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Yeah, foundational, that's what it's about. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

That's you know, like uh right now, I think it's the third year anniversary of Jay-Z's Reasonable Doubt, and I'm like, don't listen to that. Yeah, I can't get into it. You will not like any of it. Yeah, literally none of it you'll like. Yeah. I was like, yeah, no, we can't talk about this.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Yeah, it's not your thing. That's why I want Mike Sanchez on because you guys can have an actual in-depth conversation. I can kind of chime in every once in a while. Yeah, and this actually just clicked in my head a little bit. I don't know how true it is because it literally just occurred to me. He said it, so it's very true. But I think possibly I enjoy musicians, artists who have something to express, not just something to say, which with a lot of rap, it is about saying it because it's lyrics first, right? So, because music to me is expressive. So the music uh side goes first, right? And I never wrote lyrics to express myself besides opinions. I just would write shit, fucking political shit in my punk rock band or whatever, right? That's literally like the only lyrics I would write, or even the bands before that in my punk pop punk middle school, early high school days, it's all about girls or whatever, right? So, like I'm saying these things about that, but that I lost interest in that.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

And so, what's the difference from expressing something versus saying something?

SPEAKER_00 37:17

So saying something through the medium of vocals or lyrics and expressing something as like a feeling or you're trying to get something across with the music, you could they they cross-pollinate, it's obviously a giant Venn diagram, but I'm not interested in the subject matter of lyrics as much as I'm interested as in emotional expression through music and melody. Because that's a lot of people's medium, right? If you think of like poetry, or if you if you think of uh, I mean, even like writing, like through the the well, I guess I do like writing, but when it's about the words and saying something with the words, like I'm writing a song about this thing, that's not very interesting to me. I want like the expression behind it, the emotion you're trying to get across with the music, with the melodies, with the harmonies, with and sometimes obviously with the lyrics, that's what's important to me. I don't know. It's that like I said, this idea is just kind of forming, but like lyrical content doesn't is always secondary to the music to me. Yeah, right. Like, because yeah, that was one of the things with the Arctic Monkeys that you started to hate, right? Is this like Alex Turner stuff that he's singing about? You're like, I don't give a fuck about it.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

No, that's uh I'm more like stuff, right? You know what I mean? It's musically. This was a band that I was going to of like you sound unique and aggressive. Oh, yeah, yeah. You made an album of drums where I was like, I can't play a single one of these all the way through. Favorite worst nightmare, like most of those tracks I can't play on drums. There are so many complicated pieces. After that, the drums took a huge back seat, yeah. And the rhythm is more steady and focused and minimal.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:06

And I was like, I lost my cool drum band. I lost my aggressive cool drum band. Okay, good. I lost that, and now it went. I mean, look, I can't sit here and say corner store is not a great song.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

I'm not gonna say like, oh, they suck now, but it's like the thing I went for, I lost it. That makes sense. Same with the Mars Volta, they put a the fucking acoustic bullshit album. I'm like, I'm not here if Cedric's on the front, guys. Well, no, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

And that's that's a good example of what I mean in terms of like, you know, because yeah, the Volta were a huge band for us, yeah, you know, back in high school and all this kind of stuff. And the lyrical content is fucking horrendous. Yes, it is dog shit, stupid, absurd, da-da. I I fucking hate that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

Yeah. But one of our favorite bands for a good three-album, four-album run.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Exactly. The music is amazing, the vocal melodies are amazing, the singing is amazing, but Cedric's dumbass fucking lyrics, it's like cool. Yeah, you're into surrealism, we get it. Like, I hate that shit.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

But you ever see O Topo?

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Yeah, exactly. Fucking exactly. You ever seen Holy Mountain? Oh cool. So me too. Yeah, yeah, there's shit in it. Yeah. Swing shit in it. So fucking dumb. Yeah. Uh yeah, I can't stand that. No, and I but but does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 40:35

When you were saying it, I'm trying to do it. You can tell he's expressing something, but the lyrics behind it is dumb. Yeah. And that's where I think with I think a a problem a lot of people have with rap, it's changing now, and we don't have to get nerdy about it, but uh people there's not emotionality to rap because you're either rapping about yourself or you're rapping about how good you are about rapping. Yeah. And so it's such a POV perspective art form.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 41:07

That's not almost any other like country music is like maybe the closest in my head. A lot of punk rock is about an idea, a lot of like just garage rock, rock in general, like pop rock. All of that is like ideas and generalization, feelings of love and loss and angst and stuff like that. Sure. And then a rapper is Vince Staples is telling you this. I did this. Yeah. This is my life. This is how I feel. This is why I hate the summer. This is what I did at this point in time. That's not normal for every other genre. And so the fact that it is so single perspective, that's where the uh expression versus saying something, you're not connecting because that's that. I totally get that. I think that's why Kanye at a certain point transcends because musically the expression is there.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Oh, and he's not a good rapper.

SPEAKER_04 42:08

He's because he he gets other people to help with that part. But like that's that's where that transcended is people heard those songs and it was like, I don't need to like rap to like this song, because what he's expressing, I mean, there's there's handfuls of Kanye West songs. My mom is like, I love well, it's it's more pop.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Yeah, yeah, it's more pop than anything. But yeah, I mean, and I can get down to singular expression, you know what I mean. Um it's not your bag, you can do it, depends on the solo artist and and that kind of thing. But there's also a yeah, I guess there is a relatability thing where yeah, I I relate more to angsty, you know, solo female artists singing about their teenage years. And I'm like, oh, okay, I kind of lived that where, yeah, with rappers or something who grew up in, you know, these terrible situations and and all this kind of stuff, and they murdered folk. I'm like, yeah, I don't, I mean, I'm I'm I can understand that coming from white trash folk, but I'm not that doesn't really speak to me in a way that I would want to relate to it, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

Yes, and me never having love, love songs kind of die on me where I'm like, I don't, I don't know, man. I can't get like even dysentery and girls. It's not your fault. Girls are kind of lame. I'm like, I wish they liked me. I don't think they're lame, to be honest. Like I'm you know, even the angst isn't the same angst until you introduce me to a you know an Elliot Smith or somewhere. I'm like, hey buddy.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Well, there's a difference between suicidal depression or another.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

Is there? I think. Yeah. Let's ask him. Siri call uh Elliot, please.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Yeah, exactly. Uh oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:05

Siri uh uh current events on Elliott Smith, last two years, two, three years. What's he up to? What's he cooking?

SPEAKER_00 44:14

But yeah, no, that that's how it is. I get it.

SPEAKER_04 44:17

The the expression part I get. And it is um you you're you're weird with music. You're a creative mind, you're a creative person, and I met you as a musician. There is a part of me that put you in a box of I met you as a musician, that's one of your biggest creative outlets in my head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you come closed-minded to music or weirdly, I don't know the word for it, but like the Arctic Monkeys thing, where you're like, I I like this band, and they're gonna take me to the moon to a casino, the clams casino on the moon. So you're like, I'm going. I'm going on that journey because I like them. I'm bought into them and I'm gonna go where they go. And I'm like, that's weird, but I forget your music's not your outlet. Lyrics were never your outlet. It was the riffage that got you there. Yeah. Riffs and drums. I forget that that you're a riff boy, not a lyric boy. Lyrics were like, if we're a band, we gotta have lyrics, so I'll write some fucking lyrics, but that's not what you were like. I gotta say this or listen to this word play that I just did. It's that's not your thing. And then I come into you as a writer. I don't know if that's your thing as a writer either. I think with writing, uh, you we're back into empathy machine mode. You're not a guys, the clever shit I wrote. Yeah, yeah. That's not your thing. You don't love clever dialogue, yeah. You don't love playful, like playing around with like that's not your thing. And I'm like, yeah, all of this just to say, please, uh, you're fine. Don't finish the J. Cole album. Oh, yeah. I'm not going to. I don't have time. You're fine. I could listen to Bad Bunny one and I'm just like, I was gonna say, you literally have all the time to do this. You could have done this a million times over. It's two albums that are normal. Well, start on the second record. You could don't, don't, you're fine. We just went 40 minutes on why you shouldn't and won't, and you're fine. I stand by you totally don't have to listen to this. I wasn't. You I know you're not gonna.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

It's fine. I'm fine. Calmer than you. Calmer than you.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

So, what we should do.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

I'm staying here.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

I'm gonna finish my coffee. So we're on season 10, right? Yep, maybe by season 20 we could do a J. Cole uh season where we talk about a record. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 46:55

There's so many other rappers I'd rather do that. I you will legitimately enjoy all of Vince Staples' discography. When you were talking about Robin, I was like, you will love when Vin Staples works with Sophie. Okay. Like the crazy electronic stuff, and just to say, like, no, and Kendrick's gonna rap on this. Like, you're gonna hear that beat and go, what are we doing? This is crazy. I was like, Yeah, you will actually enjoy almost everything Vince Staples has ever done. Yeah, yeah. He's making albums that are 28 minutes, Nicholas.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

I know, that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 47:32

Man after my own heart. Two verses, a decent hook, and he's gone. Yeah, yeah. Not wasting no goddamn time. He did a double album and short of J. Cole's double album.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Good.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

That's what I'm saying. I was like, I was like, we didn't know. So why is J. Cole's not your guy?

SPEAKER_03 47:45

Why isn't Vin Staples the best rapper? Because he he he's he's hurt too many people. He's he's a mean man, or he was.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

Yeah, we're getting Mike Sanchez on here at the years and we'll have stuff to talk about. Yeah, I think it's gonna be a fascinating episode.

SPEAKER_04 48:01

But yeah, yeah, you're you're you're a weird creative person to me sometimes. I am a weird creative. I'm very weird. I do forget that extremely weird. Being my friend, I forget how weird you can be with your stuff. Again, you you listen to a sci-fi lounge album. How does that sound exactly like something I would like? A lounge album does not sound like anything nickname. Created by the Arctic Monkeys.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

And you're talking about all like the rhythms and stuff. God, the there are some fucking killer grooves on that record. So fuck and the lyrics. I love Alex Turner's talking about clever shit.

SPEAKER_04 48:38

He's very I'm trying to be cool as a cucumber here, baby. I'm trying to be like, hey, no big deal, everything's fine, and you you're you you're antagonizing the contradictions of like I'm not a lyrics guy, and then you come back going, and the lyrics are like. I know, I do love the lyrics. I'm like, ah, I do love them because he's clever. You love it when you love it, you don't when you don't. Yeah. I'm a I contain multitudes, would you? Sure, that's the word for it.

SPEAKER_03 49:06

Multitude of shit stacked five foot eight high. Hey, five foot nine, motherfucker. I'm not a girl. What are you lying to me for?

SPEAKER_04 49:17

No, I'm not your biggest penwish shoes.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

I'm five nine.

SPEAKER_04 49:20

Hair counts. That's my body, bitch. My fucking hair counts. That's that's that's my body. I grow it. That's my body, bitch.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

Hair counts. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Mark it. Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

So how did you enjoy this episode of Dev? I hated it. This show sucks. Fucking hated bullshit about determinism. Nothing matters. Nothing matters.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

Everything matters, nothing matters. No, I like it. I I like this show. It is exciting, and it gets me uh thinking about weird stuff, and that's kind of what I like in sci-fi. I'm the same as everybody else. I love Mass Effect because I'm watching ships crash into ships and lasers make things explode. I love all that too. But there's a thing about sci-fi tapping into the unknown and the future and the tech and all of that that I get excited for. That's why uh I'm not an alien boy, I'm a blade runner boy more. I mean, you named them blade runners. Just that alone. I don't know if that like hits everybody the same way it hit me. Yeah. It's like they're called blade runners. I was like, I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Yeah, they're detectives that basically they're that hunt down replicants, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:38

But it they called it a blade runner. Yeah. It's like that's so fucking cool. Very 80s, yeah. That's so cool, and then the test and the this, like, yeah, I I I like things that get my brain to fire off and get excited. And this show's doing that. I get excited hearing them talk about weird ways to view the world. Yeah. Uh sometimes, full disclosure, it fucks me up. I can wig out a few times, I can get uncomfortable, and like, what the fuck are we doing here, man? Like your boners or like no, it fucking makes me feel weird because I'm not comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Okay, you what's the weird feeling?

SPEAKER_04 51:17

Um, what is suicidal ideation, deep depression, nihilism?

SPEAKER_00 51:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:25

Nothing does matter. And uh in the show. Sure. But that's what I'm saying, is like we're talking about it, and then I start looking at it.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

How's therapy going?

SPEAKER_04 51:36

Skipping it this week, you son of a bitch. No, I I am, but it is uh it's I'm regressing back to having the same struggles of I mean, it's it's no surprise parents came down for Easter. And work is stressful, yeah. Work is stressful. So I'm coming back to the concept of why'd you have me if you didn't want me? And am I cry- I guess.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

Well, you're the middle child, so they yeah. But they're like, oh, we fucked up with this woman's face show. Do over. And then they're like, oh god, that was a horrible thing.

SPEAKER_04 52:09

And they never went, maybe it's us. They never did that. They're just like, we can't try again. Let's just call it. Yeah, yeah. It gets it's it's getting expensive. With Carlo, that's three strikes. They're like, I don't know, I think we're done. Fuck that, fuck him. But um, it's also that idea of I I know this sounds self-deprecating. I know it sounds like I'm just being hard on myself. You are, but if in the world everything's a possibility, I could win the lottery, I could get in a car wreck, whatever it is. Yeah, I could fall in love tomorrow and have a family of eight kids.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

I could find my lawyer and move next door to your father. And uh my dog runs with his dog.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

Another Mac.

SPEAKER_04 52:52

Yeah, exactly. Shout out Mac. If we if we titled these episodes, it would be Mac Rogers in Mac Rogers neighborhood. Yeah, yeah. But if everything's a possibility, there is a legitimate possibility that I am built for longing and not built for love. That I'm not built to experience that part of the human condition. That's not a crazy thing. It's only crazy because you care about me and you don't want it to be true.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

But for someone to say so, you're saying, like somewhere in the multiverse, or you're out of the infinite Williams in the multiverse, maybe this one is just built along and not built to to uh have all those things that you want.

SPEAKER_04 53:40

Yes, that's like it is potentially a possibility that it's like you're not capable of experiencing those human connections in that way. That's not insane. It's sad, but it's not like no, absolutely not, can't be on the table. It is on the table.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

I mean it is it is insane, it is sad.

SPEAKER_04 54:07

And and I mean it is well, yeah. If you want to use words by their definition, I guess it's it's also stickler.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

It's impressive your dedication to using ridiculous high concept science fiction ideas for thorough self-hatred. It is, I mean, it's truly impressive. Like you hate yourself so much and want to cut your down yourself down so bad that you're like, well, no, what if in this version of the multiverse that's never been proven? It's just a science fiction theory. Yep. Like, no, I I'm living in the one that I just am not gonna be happy in. And I mean, kudos to your dedication. But it's also like taking those on again and turning them against yourself as a concept. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 55:04

That's not a bizarre concept that there are people in this world that that that's a thing. Like, we all have different emotional blocks, we all have different issues. Like, everybody has something. No one's perfect, no one's all the way happy, no one's all the way sad. It's always a balance of things. Quote unquote normal is just some weird comfortable balance.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

So it doesn't exist anymore.

SPEAKER_04 55:29

That's what I'm saying. All that's all that word means is a comfortable balance, as best as you make that whatever yours is. But like, it's not a crazy thing to say that there are people out there that it's like, I'm not built for that. I'm built for quick relationships, I'm built for this or that. I'm not built for family, I'm not built to have kids, I'm not built to be single, I'm built to be a dad, I'm built to be blah blah blah blah. I'm built to be a leader, I'm built to be a follower. Like, that's not crazy. It wouldn't be crazy if I came in here and said, I hate responsibility. I'm never wanting to be a team lead. I love being second fiddle, I love getting the work done, seeing it finished, wrap up, and I don't have the responsibility of having it tethered to my name. That's a person. We work with those people. Oh, yeah. That's not crazy. No, that's what I'm saying is like these things aren't crazy. I know it sounds crazy because you say you care about me. You say it, you fucking liar. But my parents don't, how can anyone else? It sounds self-deprecating because it is. Yeah, it also doesn't mean it's not impossible, and it doesn't mean that it's it doesn't mean it's true either just because I'm saying I feel it at times, but it doesn't mean no, it's negative, therefore it's not true.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Sure, and you and you could be talking about a finite portion of time as well.

SPEAKER_04 56:51

It could be a moment in time, yeah, yeah, for sure. Maybe I'm one of those guys that doesn't fall in love and have kids in their 50s. That's also not unheard of.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you might meet some some MILF here, and then you know, it'd be a good stepdad or something.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

Or I missed it. Like, what are we doing here?

SPEAKER_00 57:10

You're not even 40, bro. Yeah, but there's nothing to miss.

SPEAKER_04 57:14

There is, but you wouldn't know because you missed it.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Yeah, but that's getting into all these. That's what I'm saying. It's like none of this is crazy. That's an infinite road.

SPEAKER_04 57:21

None of this is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 57:23

It's all crazy.

SPEAKER_04 57:24

Yeah, well, yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Yeah, you're crazy. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 57:27

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

You're broken, your head and your brain happens, and your heart is broken.

SPEAKER_04 57:33

Yes. And the question is is it? You know what I mean? Like, you see what I'm saying? Like, is it? Or is it not, and you're just being mean to yourself? Or is it? What's the true answer? It's not for you to answer, you wouldn't know, and you're gonna have a bias. You care about me. You know, no one knows the answer. Only Jesus and Only God. And he doesn't return my calls. Yeah. So how am I supposed to feel?

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Well, we saw what he was up to in this episode.

SPEAKER_04 58:06

He's just chilling, just hanging, hanging with three other people. Yeah. Nicholas, when he was hanging, one of the guys up there was a thief. And Jesus forgave him.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:21

And then there was another guy that was whispering. And he just was like, I can't hear you. And the guy said out louder said, I can see my house from up here. A little levity. Hell yeah. Nicholas, they made a computer to look at Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 58:42

Yeah, that's one of my favorite things. Me too. Yes. Me. And in science fiction, where it's like, you do not expect we are in a very Silicon Valley science fiction, future technology, not Jetsons kind of shit. I don't know why I reference the Jetsons as it's old. But it's not some far-flung high concept science fiction television show. It's very grounded, modern, modern and plausible, you know, in terms of the world that it is. Much like his house. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So for it to take that turn is just fucking brilliant to me. Where it's like, oh, we're talking about determinism, we're talking about religion's bullshit. He kind of mentions that, you know, kind of in in the first episode. And we're all about, you know, kind of we don't know what devs is doing. We don't know what the quantum computers are. We don't know anything coming into this second episode. And who have this scene of they're like, uh it's staring at fucking static. And then they're like, oh, okay, finally, it's fucking coming up. All right, let's see what this is. And it's Jesus Christ crucified nailed to the fucking cross. And you see the look on their faces, and they are just in fucking awe. And it's it's such a fucking powerful moment. Yeah. And it is such a brilliant fucking twist.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:14

It means so much to me. Oh, yeah. I mean, obviously, I've talked about this so many times of how all of this intersects with my uh confusion with religion and stuff, and then how I talk about sci-fi or how I talk about all AWE, which this is, and you see them experience that. It's like this means so much to me. Yeah. It's because I mean, if you were to say I have a window, and this window can look at any place in time in the past and show you a thing that is for sure. I'm like, you gotta prove me the God thing. We gotta talk about it. I gotta see that. Yeah, yeah. That's all I wanna see are those things because that changes everything. Well for me, it makes sense that that's where their brain goes of like, if we're going big, let's go big.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

Well, and I mean, yeah, we got we can talk about this a little bit too. No, I don't want to. You got random stuff. The you know, it's the the evidence, I I guess, for historical Jesus is kind of hit or miss. Generally, the consensus is Jesus Christ was a dude who didn't exist there. Yeah, you know, and if obviously they don't have a lot of physical evidence from 2,000 fucking years ago and all this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:30

Try to turn, no big deal.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:33

But the God thing of it, that's what's fascinating. Because if Jesus Christ, the historical figure, did exist and he did get crucified and all this kind of stuff, those historical events as they've been told for the past 2,000 years did happen, that is fascinating to go back and fucking see it. But yeah, for the spiritual minded, then it's like, oh, okay, so he he was real, which means you were questioning it, which means you didn't truly accept him as your savior, which means you're going to hell.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:01

But no, because you can always just go, now I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:04

Okay, yeah, that's true. Yeah, well, depending on which version, you know. But the real thing you'd want to see is the resurrection. That's that's where my mind goes.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:13

Yeah, if he moved that stone and walks out.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

I'd I want to watch the video. I want to watch these three days, but it's such a fucking powerful moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

And that's that's what I'm saying. Because you're like, oh shit, it puts it into reality because it's a story until that, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

That's what I'm saying. I I agree with you. Just seeing him on the cross doesn't prove the Holy Trinity, but the idea of these scientists going, what do we want to look at? Yeah. And they go, I got a fucking crazy idea. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Yeah, it's the juxtaposition. It's yeah, it's yeah, you you think of these folks as data scientists. You you have it as they're implicitly atheists, which they're not. I mean, I uh you know, necessarily, but we we associate them with Forrest, who who seemingly leans that way from this first episode. So it's just like we have already, as an audience, built up this idea of maybe what these people think, but then to see them be in awe of Christ on the cross, it's like, oh shit, it's such a fucking brilliant contrast, and it just you don't expect it to go there. I remember when I first saw this, I was like, what the fuck? Yeah, like also the way it forms.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:24

I was like, it's something with horns, it looks weird, and then it turns out I was like, holy shit, it's metal, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

It's fucking here, dude. It's so fucking cool. It feels good.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:35

I absolutely love it, and the conversation that comes from it of him going, We we did it, and them saying, We didn't, not good enough, therefore we did nothing. Yeah, there's such an absolute to some of these conversations it's the zero sum game, yeah. That's what fucks with my head sometimes because I'm with that guy of like no one's done this and no one's gotten closer. The fact that we did this the way we did it, we just changed the world, and they are saying we actually didn't, because if you show that to somebody, we just raise questions, yeah. We don't answer an absolute, and we're here for an absolute, yeah. And I've always struggled with absolute.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:22

Well, and I think once we get to the end of the series, we can talk about that more because Forrest is looking for an absolute, right? But he needs it. Um I think we all do.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:33

We're all looking for well, we help it, yeah. Well, everybody is absolutely some people, oh nice, I like how you did that. And you say you don't give a shit about lyrics, but it's uh you know, uh denying something is an absolute.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:48

That's why so many people get scared of the denial and they go, uh, I'm not sure. Agnostic.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

I'll stay in the No, I'm uh that's where I am, even though you like to call me an atheist because I don't know. It's either I'm an atheist or I'm a Republican, it's one of the two. Uh but you're leaning.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:06

You lean more than you want to admit, and it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:09

I'm not gonna push you because I don't want you to go to either side.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

But no, I'm leaning, baby. I'm not an atheist. I think claiming that there is no God is just as ignorant as saying or not ignorant. I think that claiming that there is absolutely no God in opposition to people who say there absolutely is a God, it's the same argument.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:28

So you're saying there is a statistical chance that the Christian God is real? You truly, in your heart, deep down inside, you believe there is a chance that it is real. I think thank you. That's all you have to say. That's an absolute no. I'm being I'm purposely being an ass. I know. But but that's why I say what I say that you are an atheist.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

I'm not an atheist. I believe that there could be a higher power. And is the Christian God a higher power? Sure. So yes, he could exist. Your boy Jesus could be my Lord and Savior, and I'm going to burn in hell for all eternity. Sure. I don't know. Because I can't prove it one way or the other. So that's true.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:14

But that's what I'm saying. Is deep in your heart, do you actually believe there's a chance that's real? Or are you pretty confidently going, No, I know that's not real. There could be an unknown thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

Yeah, but me saying that against the Christian God is not the same as other gods.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:30

Yeah, but we're not, you know, as well as I do. You're not talking about the multi-handed Ganesh and all that.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:36

I don't think I don't believe in that one either. Exactly. But there could be something unknowable. The unknowable, I get. So but I get that. And again, you, especially you and all these people who believe in a deity and human beings, they're way too fucking stupid to be able to comprehend what a God would actually be. So I know that I couldn't comprehend what a God would be.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:58

So that so me sounds like a cop out to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:01

No, I'm not saying you're stupid.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:03

No, is what I'm saying. Because I do or don't believe. Which which way are you painting me? Because I don't believe there's God. Sure. I don't. Okay. That's how I feel.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:14

What part of that is stupid? No, I'm saying what you're you lost me, baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

Where are you on this? I'm saying it's just as ridiculous to say that I'm an atheist based off of saying one God does not exist. Because there are thousands of gods that human beings have believed in.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:33

And I don't believe that even anyone could comprehend any human could comprehend a God.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:39

Let's just stay with that one point because I know there's another one you were gonna say. If I just wanted to call you stupid. I I got it, and I tried to roll with it. If you're saying because we quote unquote, and for lack of a better term, we made the Christian God, you go, that one's not real because we made it. And there's been so many others, would you not agree? All the others we also made.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:03

So therefore, am I crazy to to extrapolate that if any God made by man, because we can't comprehend the truth, if it's made by us, that probably ain't it because that breaks the incomprehensible. But no, so all the man-made gods throughout time, those are all not real because the truth would be incomprehensible.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:24

But technically, those gods could be part or whatever those gods represent could be the result of whatever this higher deity created. So, I mean, in a way, they could exist. Does that make sense? You're talking about like the fire gods, you're talking about the water, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:41

Yeah, I mean, they're there is an understanding of that's why he brought a human form to live among us, is he's like, You guys ain't getting it. I gotta bring it down to a level that you see. I'm talking through a bush. I know we're humans, we can only understand talking through blah blah blah in a mountain. So that's what I'm saying is like if you go with the whole, oh, we wouldn't even be able to comprehend it, then everything we've ever said we comprehended couldn't be it. Because we can't comprehend the true, honest what it is. That I agree with, and that's why I say whatever once a dude said, Oh, it's this, well, yeah, you just said it's not that that just confirmed it's not that. Yeah, yeah. You said I get it, and I put a name to it, I go, Well, then it's not that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:26

But if someone's like, Oh, God's a mystery, I'd be like, Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:30

I get that. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:31

But this is why if you're shorthand, but the people who claim that they know exactly who this deity is, they're they're bullshitters. I know that what they believe, and I don't knock the fact that human beings.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:44

Well, sometimes you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:45

Sometimes we all do. No, no, no, no. I don't knock the fact that human beings as a species often need these things, and I think it was an evolutionary necessity. And we obviously we tell you stories are integral to human beings or to who we are as a species. So I'm not knocking that. But I just think it's silly and ignorant and a little dumb and arrogant for a person to say, Oh, I know that this thing is real and all that kind of just like you know, you don't it works for you, yes, it does. I believe you that it works for you, but to say that it's works for someone else or try to put it on someone else, that's bullshit.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:26

And I get that. I and this is this is why you're you're to me the reason why I would say you're an atheist and not agnostic, you're not coming into the world and living in a way of going, there probably is something, we just don't know. You're closer to saying there isn't, and if there wasn't, we wouldn't get it. That's the same thing, you're closer to a no than you are a I think there's a maybe. You're not in the wiggle room, you can comprehend the wiggle room, but you are saying no, yeah, but uh there's not.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:58

No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:00

We're uh we are arguing semantics with atheist agnostic. I'm saying when I say it's because I think you're closer to a it's nothing you guys said before.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:10

That's where I go, well, yeah, so you're you're more of an atheist. You're also not living with the idea of there's an unknown out there and you you want to know.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:21

Just because I don't want to know doesn't mean that I'm claiming that it's not there.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:26

That I agree with. You're not denying there's absolutely nothing, you're not a hardline.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:31

So a person who claims to care about lyrics and words, you should care about the difference between the two definitions.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:38

I can, I do. I struggle with it in my own life. That's why you were making the joke that you think I believe in God, but I'm also saying this.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

Well, you don't believe in him because he doesn't believe in you.

unknown 1:11:49

Right?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:49

No, that might be more of why I do. Because I'm like, well, that matches. If you act like my mother and father and everybody else in my life, if my mother and father don't care, then the father doesn't care either. Yeah. I mean, I hate to quote such an old dated corny movie, but if our fathers were uh the models of God and our fathers abandoned us, what does that say about God? Like that makes sense. That tracks. I can go, well, yeah, there is a God. He doesn't like me because no one else does. So this makes sense. What if that's the devil with it?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

Who's fucking with you?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:22

Wait a minute's because you haven't. And I'm being tested. Exactly. I am weak and I failed the test. Yeah, but you can just say it's okay that I'm weak.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:30

But if you let Jesus into your heart, then you will be strong and you're if I let him into my heart, I would be fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

If you you let him into your heart, everything you've blasphemed your entire life doesn't count anymore. I know because you let him in. Pretty cool. What's it take for you to let him in? I know what it takes for me to let him in. I know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:49

What is that? Where how can we get you there?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:51

A personal experience where I feel I have a relationship with him. It all comes back to me needing to feel like I have a connection with somebody. Yeah. With parents, with friends, with loved ones, with a deity of any sort. Abritus from Bloodborne, shout out a new R-rated animated film. If Abritus made me feel like I had a connection with it, I would probably worship the old blood necklace. I would be in one of the Bergenworth Scholars or the Healing Church because I'm like, hey, it made me feel connected to it. It listened to me, it made me feel heard and seen, and it was a back and forth, not just a you to me or me to you. Because right now, religion, the way it works here, yeah, is a one-way call. Exactly. I talk to you all the time. That's how it's supposed to be. And I talk to you through humans, which always feels weird with the Catholics. That's why it's all bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:48

You gotta listen to our old friend George Michael and Fred Durst. And you gotta have faith, William.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:55

That's where I get mad at you saying there's an arrogance and an ignorance and uh stupidity with Christians. Uh academic Christians, take them out because those are assholes. Most people would tell you the reason why they say faith base is to go, uh this isn't I know for fact, it's I believe for fact. Sure. I just feel it. I don't need it proven, I don't need to do all of that. So there is no arrogance. It's a this doesn't make sense. No, it doesn't add up choosing to follow through.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:29

Well, and I mean in terms of like there's a beauty in the choice to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:32

No, and that's because I didn't make a choice. So I I look at them and I go, There is a beauty and a respect for someone choosing.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:39

But mostly the arrogance I mean is they think they know better and they think they have the answer, which I get it, and they want to share it with other people. Uh I'm getting tripped up on think they know better. Or feel better. They're believing they know better. They believe they know better. Yeah, but keep it to your fucking self.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:56

Uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:59

Is this the land of the fucking free or not? Well, it depends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:03

How many of your opinions you keep to your fucking self? I mean, not ten people listen to this podcast. Uh it's like 50. Don't worry about it. Yeah. But like you know what I mean. Like, I it it No, but I don't we're going to the worst example. But I mean, that fucking happens. Let's do this. You got really weird, and I got picked on for saying teachers suck and I don't like them, and all cops are bastards, and teachers are uh cops of the school. I don't like them. And you're like, hey, I I I'm married to a teacher. A lot of my friends are teachers, and I know a lot of teachers in my life. With some teachers that's what I'm saying is you didn't like you. We're super defensive on teachers because you go anecdotally, personally, I got teachers in my life and they are good people, and they're not the exception to the rule of the people. I got shitty teachers too. We've all had shitty, those would be the exceptions. Goes back to me using the metaphor of cops, going, few bad apples. Are all cops bad? Because if you cops are bad, which way do we go on this?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:02

Yeah, and I don't think all Christians are bad. There's a billion people. Do you think I really think a one-seventh of the entire fucking planet are pieces of shit?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:10

You know plenty of good Christians, nice people that are Christians. Yeah. Mike Sanchez. Maybe you should say that more. Maybe you don't say that that often. Yeah, maybe you downplay the Christians and call me.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:22

There's good people who aren't Christians. It doesn't name seven. That's what I think. Well, and that's the thing too. Is it being a Christian doesn't automatically mean you're a fucking moral and good person.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:33

Uh but it also doesn't mean they're an idiot.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:36

No, of course. Well, we can't say of course. Well, you have to clarify. There are idiots who are Christians, and then there are idiots who aren't Christians. It doesn't matter. Idiots that wear blue shorts are related. Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:51

Yep. Yeah. Nick's wearing blue shorts. Oh, to the opposite. Yeah, we're going to be able to do it. Did you guys not get it? Yeah, his tennis is hanging out when he stretches his shorts. Yeah, you wear it. See it from the side. You wear it. Little thumb trying to hitchhike, trying to get a ride over here. That's what it's doing. Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:08

Not what am I running fucking hitchhike? Uh commando? No, I don't think so. I like shit. Tight. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:15

Yeah, I don't, dude. I I'm 38. Uh I don't get how people don't wear underwear or they wear boxers. I don't get it. I agree. Yeah, it's no sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:24

I haven't worn boxers or boxer briefs since my 20s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:28

I remember I'm a briefs man. I remember one time, ooh, fifth, sixth grade. I think my mom bought me boxers.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:36

I know it's well, it's something about that age where you're like, oh, it's especially us growing up in the 90s into the early 2000s, is like, ugh, it's if you want your if you wanted to wear briefs, you were it's like uh it was a speedo thing, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:51

Yeah, it was yeah, uh the whitey tidies. It was like for babies or old men, it was lame. So I remember my mom bought boxers and like, I don't know, try them. I think that's what kids wear, type of thing. And I was like, I hate this. Yeah, I might a fan. This is uh it goes back to saying so much about me. I also remember going, I'm not cool enough to wear boxers. That's for other kids. The same feeling I felt when we walked by a pack sun in the mall, and my mom's like, Do you want to go in there and look at clothes? I was like, I don't think I'm supposed to. I don't think I'm cool enough for pack sun. Abercrombie and finch, I felt I felt that hard. I was like, mom, no. What if a kid at school sees me going in there? Like, you think you're supposed to be buying Abercrombie and Finch clothes? What are you crazy? I'm like, I don't even say it right.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

I was just gonna finch instead of finch. I was gonna shout out a couple other preppy guys from high school, but we've already brought up enough of them.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:46

Yeah, you gotta leave Goddard out of it. But yeah, like that was such a thing in me. I was like, I don't think that's me.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:52

I'm pretty sure that's not me.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:54

Bums me the fuck out, bro.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:57

Am I wrong though?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:58

No, of course. And I wouldn't I would I would feel the same way.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:00

Yeah, I could see you wearing some uh stuff of different, but like I think every kid kind of has that feeling of like, oh, I'm not meant for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:10

That's not me.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:11

It's just that that age group, and once you know, style starts coming into teenage life and stuff, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:17

Yeah, and what what'd William do? He purposely rejected it. Yep. And said, no, I on purpose dress stupid and ugly, and I'll make a joke about it, so please don't judge me.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:27

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:28

Yeah, it's like a fat guy calling himself fat. Yep. Yeah, I did that with uh everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:34

But you dress nice now.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:35

I I dress like an old man now.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:40

But even that is like I d I don't dress like a 38-year-old whatever, so it's like you're like a what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

You're like a well-dressed yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:49

Well, it's because our generation, we don't dress up, and that's what I'm saying. It's like I'm still doing that thing of like I'm purposely out of the game. Take me out of it. Yeah, but you like dressing nice. I like dressing nice, but I'm still purposely going, I'm out of the game. You don't have to make fun of me for not being in the game. I chose to be out of the game.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:09

I'm out. Yeah. I don't do that. I'm not a loser that wears crocs. Just kidding.

unknown 1:20:16

I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:16

I thought you were supposed to be nice to me because Dave Jordan's not here. Yeah, uh it's it's uh but let's let's not leave God banned because I wanted to talk about this. Let's bring them, let's get back to it. Uh yeah, besides me and you arguing the semantics of fucking atheism and agnostic.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:30

Dude, just accept you're closer to atheists than agnostic, and you're closer to Republican than Democrat. Just accept it and move on. Just move on. Just accept who you are. Hey, we all gotta just accept who we are.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:44

Um but I wanted to bring this up.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:46

It's no big deal.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:47

I love you no matter who you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:50

Just live your true life. The the this mix of tech and God and Alex Garland, right? Because we've talked about how he likes to explore, even though he's a very pragmatic, very I mean, I mean, he ties into the emotion of things, but he's interested in these hard sci-fi ideas, yeah, but then they always blend and or cross over with the incomprehensible, right? So And figuring out the world, yeah, yeah. And he's always commenting on human beings need these things, or if they don't need these things, they are still an integral part of the human experience.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:28

How do we use them?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:30

And shout out 28 years later, we'll get to that. Yeah, exactly. How do we use this stuff?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:35

Yeah, we're all human beings. We can use these things, technology, everything for good and for bad, right? You know, it's it's that's just the nature of humanity, right? But he likes tackling these kind of these big things and these unfathomable concepts, be it the alien, uh force, the shimmer, as William likes to call it in Annihilation. So much better. And uh much better and the sun's so right. The sun in sunshine.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:04

We might end this whole series talking about Alex Scarlin with the understanding that sun as god in sunshine is maybe the best thing he's ever read.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:13

It's so fucking cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:14

I it's sunshine's great, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:17

I know I had to change my rating on I think on uh that concept I love it so I think he nailed it. Yeah, yeah. I love it. And it's the best thing ever. It's so fucking sick. And and with uh artificial intelligence and ex machina, right? And he's doing the same thing here where we it the show has is just barely cracking into it right now, but we have a quantum machine that can recreate things from at least 2,000 years ago. Yeah, that's what this episode reveals. And it deals with the big thing of like, oh shit, we can watch this man who a billion people believe is a deity be fucking hung up on a cross. That's a huge fucking deal. Yeah, this is God to people, a lot of fucking folks, and I'm very Trump right there or something. Um nailed to the cross. Like that's it's it's fucking crazy. It's fucking huge. And it it's made me think about a lot of this fucking AI stuff that's happening right now. And he's touched upon it in this, he'll tell we'll we'll as we get into it a little bit more. And he touched upon it with the I mean, his I guess twisted Nathan's twisted version of the Turing test in X Mog, you know, yeah. What it means to be human, how you know what what it takes to create an artificial mind, all these kind of things, which he just glances over.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:46

You know, this is or he he doesn't gloss over gloss over is usually a negative uh it's not glance, it's he's he's so smooth with covering it and not making it so blatantly obvious of like, I'm gonna stop doing a movie and just start preaching an idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:05

Exactly. And then and that's what's kind of brilliant about it is like he Alex Garland somehow knows we are going to get to these places. Yeah. Maybe not in these things. We're maybe we're not gonna see a quantum uh video of of Jesus being nailed to the cross. Maybe we're not gonna have a a completely fully sentient uh robot, but the means to get there, he always just sprinkles in those fucking details, and they are always brilliant. And so far he's been very, very accurate in terms of what it is. And I was thinking about this this past week using fucking artificial intelligence to do scheduling for the fucking shipping out process and all this kind of stuff. So I've been using Claude, I don't use Chat GPT because they're whatever and with the Trump administration, uh, and they're like not against using AI to design weapon systems, which is fucking insane. You are a Claude if you think Claude's not also doing this. No, well they they got uh you know the the president MAGA turned their back on him and kicked him out of the DOJ and all this kind of stuff. But I know all tech companies are evil. We're I'll I'll talk about that. Except Apple and Nintendo. So damn, you are just you are in such a pissy mood today. It's so fucking funny. But it's okay. I know you're just mad at yourself. That's all right. I don't take it personally anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:30

Nick, I'm never mad at myself. Hate is so different than being mad indifferent. We talked about it, indifference and shame. Yeah, being mad at myself is uh you gotta care more.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:42

It's all right. It just comes out in being mad, I guess. That's how it's expressed. Are you saying I'm lashing out? I don't know. That's for your therapist to decide. I'll leave it up to her.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:54

Um but God bless her. Shout out her, guys. I know for fucking real. I need to because I'm so much better. I'm I'm killing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:02

I know. Tell her to, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:05

The dosage.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:06

Yeah. We're getting there. I need to start paying her more. I've been paying her.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:10

You've been gone drapering my ass. She calls you after and gives you notes, a rundown. She won't quit crying over this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:18

I was gonna name somebody, but I won't. So don't worry about it. So, yeah, so I've been using this thing, uh, this AI program to help schedule production stuff, schedule shipping stuff, find shipping rates, weights, all these kind of things, and be like put together a list of all the shipping materials I need, considering this is how many bundles of this and this and this. I input all this data for fulfillment and uh for dates of like you know, we're gonna ship by this date, blah, blah, blah. Put it all out into a schedule. And I talked about this a couple months ago, about how all these AI systems or what they call AI, is not AI. It's basically like a conversational chat bot that can access fucking Google.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:05

Right. So, or it's a it's a data amalgamation that can process shit for you. Yeah, user-friendly search engines, so to speak. Exactly. And it does it in a way, and it's all over the internet these days of just like, oh, that's a great idea. The parodies of like, you know, all these chat bots and AI certainly. Making it friendly and personable, exactly, which is exactly what it does. And I've been reading a lot more stuff about like AI psychosis, where these people start to believe that these chatbots are real people and they make dis or sentient uh AIs, right? And they start to make like financial decisions based upon what they are, and they ruin their fucking entire lives, and then they try to kill themselves. And like that makes sense to me. No, it does, and that's what I mean in terms of like and that Alex Garland is so fucking spot on with this stuff. Because one, as I've said, these tech companies. Is calling this shit AI right now. It's not artificial intelligence. It isn't. They needed a new way to brand these services that they started creating. They couldn't call them chatbots because people already called them chatbots, and that has a negative connotation. People hate chatbots. That's what you talk to when you're getting customer service.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:19

Fuck you, Xfinity. So they I hate your customer service. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:23

Because you're talking to a chatbot. But now they're rebranding it as AI. And because of this chatbot nature of it, it seems like it is intelligent because it has conversational skills. So, but really what it is is a search engine. What the fuck was Alex Garland talking about a fucking decade ago? Yeah. Oh, this is how I actually created Ava is collecting everybody's data through search engines and filtering it into her brain. Wetware.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:52

Yeah, the the resource of data he nailed so long ago of it's not interesting to just know what you bought. It's the why and how. It's the human behavior behind it, it's the psychology. What time are you purchasing things?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:09

Yep. It's all this built into it. So it's this amalgamation of fucking data that whatever, in that case or that story, becomes a sentient being, right? So it's impressive how much he's picked up on that. And these people who are having AI psychosis, it's actually pretty fucking nuts because I'll be talking and I'll I start out, I don't give him any personal data. I mean, it knows my name because I signed up with my Gmail account, right? But uh so, and I'm sure it's scraped whatever the fuck data from from Gmail. But in terms of like talking about the project and fulfilling and all stuff, I don't use anybody's names, I don't use any project names, I don't I don't give it any character names. It doesn't know anything about the comic book. Like, I'm not giving it any creative input whatsoever, only data for structuring stuff. But because I'm like, I don't want this shit to join the data uh collective, right? I don't want it to join the pool of whatever the fuck it's I whatever they call it. But I still have found myself saying, Oh, please do this. Yes. Because I'm trying to be polite, because this thing is polite to me. And I'm like, I completely understand these people who go. I mean, if you are in a fragile mental state and you've had horrible trauma and you are lonely in your relationship or something like that, and what are you talking about? And you're talking to these things who are designed to be nice to you so that you use it more and can give you all the fucking answers you want.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:38

And if you're not fucking smart, or not that's not smart, if you're not careful, it can give you incorrect information or it can give you bad ideas, and it's up to you to use your brain to be like, oh yeah, this is fucking stupid, because every once in a while it'll sp spout out something, and I'm just like, no, that's uh I'm not even but why would I do that if I type two plus two in a calculator? Why would I second guess it coming back with four? If I think tech is done, you made the calculator, so whatever equation I put in, when I push equals, I'm just going with well, that's what I mean. That's what I mean. That's what this is now. Everyone looked at this and said, Oh, yeah, they figured out. You're just giving me what already exists. So if I say I have six hundred thousand dollars as my life savings, what's the safest and easiest way to invest to get a meaningful gain of return and all of this? And then it tells me, and those are real stocks and real options. I go, why would I ever question that? Exactly. You're pulling it from everything, and it works on positive reinforcement.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:50

So if you're like, oh, that's a great idea, it's like, oh yeah, it is. So yeah, it becomes this loop and you get stuck in it, and you think it behaves like a human, so people start to think that it's a human or a fucking AI robot or whatever, because that's the name that they're using, which I think is it's I mean, not that tech companies are fucking known for not being ironic fucking pieces of shit, but yeah, just the idea that they are calling it AI and then manipulating all these folks into believing that it's something more than it actually is. I mean, it's it's it's ridiculous, but I find it fascinating. No, it it is, and it the idea that human beings always search for meaning, be that a higher power or a calling or a connection, we are always looking for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:45

And Alex Scarland understands so fucking well that human beings are gonna one be driven by those things, forest and devs, as we'll discover more as it goes on. And also on the negatives in terms of people, you know, maybe you know, like an ex machina or something like that, right? Where you end up getting yourself fucking killed and you ruin your life. Stabbed in the gut. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's he he's so fucking spot on with it, and the real world, you know, whatever, life imitating art, you know, so to say, it's it's highly fascinating, highly disturbing. And I'm I I I'm not an I'm not an AI alarmist. I'm more worried about the AI companies helping the government, you know, create these fucking algorithms to kill people. That's really fucking bad. Bums me out that kind of people don't understand what these programs are. Because I, of course, generative AI in terms of creating stuff is fucking soulless, and all those people who use that are you know for those.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:48

Everybody except Conor O'Malley, shout out, but I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:53

But yeah, it's it's all it's fucking garbage and it's stupid. But it bums me out that that these tech companies are being so fucking obtuse about it, you know what I mean? Just because they want to make money. They just it's all valid. They're just trying to raise money with the buzzword of AI.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:07

And that's what uh Ben Affick spoke on the podcast. No one's supposed to listen to anymore. Is he it was kind of brilliant how he broke it down. It's like they have to keep saying this is the future, they have to keep talking about how fast it's developing because this is get money quick. Yeah, exactly. They're trying to make everyone go, you better get on board now. They're just selling a new product, it's going so fast. Yeah, this is only version 1.2. Look at how look at how advanced 1.2 is. Wait till we get to 5.8. Yeah, we're changing the world within weeks. Get on board now because everything's about valuation. Yeah, it's all raising money. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:46

And it's and they're just they've repackaged what they already do in a new way. Yes, that's why they had to come up with the new name. It's just search, it's just all this kind of computational stuff, just all wrapped into one that and you can talk to it. And I mean, you have people who are fucking losing their minds about data centers, which, yeah, I mean, they the the amount of water that they fucking use. And it's it's it's pretty bad. But but look, but you have all these people who are bitching about all these fucking uh AI data centers, and I'm like, wait, you're doing this on Instagram. This is living on it in a fucking data center. Like, pull your fucking head out of your ass.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:28

But it's the same thing with the AI, is they heard this data center is bad. That's what I mean. The other data centers, it's like, I don't know what you're talking about. I know data center with this. No, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:39

And and for for real, my brother-in-law, my sister's husband, is a diesel mechanic and he travels all around to all these big ass fucking meta uh meta and uh Microsoft server farms, which cannot generate enough power using existing good old US of A infrastructure to maintain their existing data centers. So, what do they do? They set up fucking generators that run on diesel that provide electricity to these places, and he goes around to all these places Wyoming, Texas, to service them. So literally, the existing data centers, which people always they you know, they've been protesting all the ones that are gonna be built. Yeah, the existing ones are already using so much power that they need diesel generators to run 24 hours a day.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:34

Yes, I need to see Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt fight. No, what's on the top of God's city?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:40

It's probably just a fucking Gmail account from high school. Yeah, so yeah, it's just whatever. It's a whole fucking mess, but it's just so impressive to me that Alex Garland nails it across the board in terms of like he knows what technology is emerging, he understands how these tech companies think and the probable routes that they will take to try to execute these things in terms of you know, again, like I said, ex machiness, search engines, this kind of stuff, billionaire tech guys, and you come back to this billionaire tech guy, and we'll we'll we've kind of been introduced to somewhat of Forrest's motivation in this episode uh with his daughter, and we see him look at her through the quantum machine as well, uh, after they crack the Jesus code. I mean, literally, they just saw Jesus nailed to a cross, and then Forrest is like, Hey, can you give me the room?

SPEAKER_04 1:37:40

I gotta see my daughter.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:41

I mean, goddamn.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:43

It's beautiful and how sad that is. No, it is. There's a beauty there, yeah. There's a there's a uh a gentle sadness that all the money in the world, the unlimited uh potential of knowledge and intelligence moving towards the future, and this guy goes showing my dead daughter. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. After him saying it's not that big a deal, I saw Jesus. So the fuck what? It wasn't 4K. Yeah, it wasn't 4K. Everybody get out, I gotta see this uh roughed uh pixelated thing of my daughter.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:16

Yeah, which oh god. When they when they have the shot, and it's the shot that that shot is is referencing of in his house, it still has her bedroom and all that stuff. Yeah, being a parent now, I'm just like fuck this. I hate this so much. It's so fucking heartbreaking to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:32

I uh oh the idea of he lost a kid. Oh, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:35

I get that, yeah, and leaving the the room the same.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:38

Pussies get affected by stuff like that a lot, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:41

Yeah, it fucks me up. But but yeah, Alex Garland, fucking brilliant. He's just so good at fucking threading these things in, and it just it's crazy to see this thing that this show is already six years old. X Machin is over a decade years old, and yeah, to see this guy weave these narrative threads of these how these potential technologies are developed so accurately, it's just like fuck it's nuts.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:10

It's also um which I I I know Arnofsky talked a lot about it in Pi, it's a similar concept, even though his was weirder using uh cabolic math. But the idea of a determinism, if uh nature laws cause and effect that's such a rigid structure, there's the math of nature, I can predict the future. Yeah, I can do something big if I'm working on such a rigid grid structure of cause and effect natural math like that. Yep. That's also deeply fascinating. We're talking about the the bigger end of this and the metaphysical and the AI, but the other thing this show is starting to show that they're doing, which I got from the the Jesus thing, is that's what they're doing, is they're trying to either. I'm not as of episode two, I'm not sure if that's our Jesus, a replication or a multiversal like I don't know what I'm looking at. But I know I'm using smart people math and smart people machines to generate an image that is the real thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:24

Just what the real thing means, I don't know yet. Yeah, yeah. But the episode opening with him talking about the dead daughter. Yep. That's big.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:35

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:36

And the idea that this world has two realities that I can't comprehend at the exact same time. That's huge, and that's beautiful. And those are the things that crack my brain in a bad way of like, I get it, and it's hard. Well, and it's a and I can be overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:53

It's a metaphor for quantum computing, because that's what a qubit is. It's a it's a bit of information, basically, that can be both it exists in two states at once, be positive and negative. That is clever writing in terms of his part. It's a double entendre.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:10

Because I forget what she's in, what level of uh tech Adamaya the girl's in.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:18

Uh it's I thought it was like cryptography or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:20

Yeah, it's it's something different. So like for him to almost kind of sort of explain it that way, yeah, yeah. Kind of is like, you might not get this. Because this isn't your forte. Yeah, when it's kind of specifically talking about quantum stuff, yeah. But and that's but equating it to his own life, yeah. That's fucking cool. And then you get the porch scene where the guy's like, you gotta move on, get a better car, yeah. Maybe move. Like you you gotta move on from your past, and it is it's I'm struggling with him. Is he lying? When he goes, No, I am, and I know it doesn't look like I am, and then the next scene he looks at a uh of an image of his dead daughter on the gray TV screen, and the daughter's room is untouched. How that works with his determinism and how that works with his worldview, we don't know yet, but that's one of those of uh I think you're lying. Yeah, you're not being honest, you're not moving on, yeah, and you're using all of this just to see your daughter again.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:26

That's also one of those deeply selfish things that is fascinating to me. You know, uh, we keep saying tech bro, tech bro, tech bro, and like the idea that he's like, You think I fucking care about money? I know, and you think I care about government contracts, you think I care about energy, like cold fusion. He's like, None, like this.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:46

Yeah, you think I give a fuck about US defense or whatever that is.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:49

Yeah, yeah. This is this is episode two of him going, nothing material means anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:55

And this is how we know, just like how we know Jack Donegie uh is uh as a written character, as an empathetic Republican in 30 rock. Uh we have a man who is slowly, or we have a man in devs who is solely driven by emotion.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:12

But that's but that's where I uh I I tried to make my case is like I don't think Oscar Isaac's a tech bro. I think he's Frankenstein. I think the way Alex Garland views that's a different movie, William Technology. It frustrates me that I didn't he was Frankenstein. He literally was Frankenstein. Yeah, doctor. And I I forgot for a second, and it makes it sound like I'm stupid and I don't know. But what I'm saying is, God damn it.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:42

You're stupid and you don't know. We know, we just heard it.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:44

Is Alex Garland is talking about these people creating monsters in that way?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:52

He strikes me as the type of guy that doesn't fucking care about tech bro culture and capitalism and stuff like that when he talks about sci-fi.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:03

Oh, yeah, he just understands it. Yeah and understands that it is often necessary. Yeah, he understands the motivations of it and like, oh, this is the conceit. These folks would be in these positions to explore these science fiction concepts. So he understands them, but yeah, and that's why absolutely doesn't work.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:20

That's why episode one, he hit that list of like, this isn't Cold Fusion, this isn't government contract, this isn't defenses, this isn't any of that shit. Because that's that's Alex Carlin going. I know that's what tech bros do, I know that's where the money is. That's not the story I'm telling. Exactly. I'm not telling tech bros stories, I'm not interested in that. Fuck off.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:42

Which again goes back to the fuck you to the fans, the the the Kuckman thing. Yes. Of I know you think that's what I should talk about. Yeah. I should say something about tech bros. He goes, fuck you.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:55

I'm here to talk about a thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:57

Yeah. I'm here to talk about a fucking story.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:59

Like a real true concept. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's he's good, man. He's so stoked. When he's good, he's great. And when he's great, he's one of my favorite things ever.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:08

I agree. And yeah, I'm just re-watching this, it's getting me so stoked to watch all eight episodes just to see where it goes and and see where I the details I missed and and what it explores and what it you know, if it whiffs anything, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:23

Is there anything better for you with the acting and the main character?

SPEAKER_00 1:45:27

I have been thinking of like I paid more attention to the facial acting, like Dave said. Yeah. And yeah, she's great at it. And it might be a voice thing. I forgot to look up her and other things, not to bring up another source subject. But uh Hey, when I'm right, I'm right. But she's very good. She has I her the facial acting is very good. Still interesting delivery, but yeah, it could just be a voice thing. Yeah, I don't know. I gotta I gotta look her up on the Game of Thrones spinoff.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:54

Um oh, some YouTube clips, maybe okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:58

Yeah, I don't want to watch it, but I wanna I just want to see her act and speak in other things. Yeah, but yeah, we get uh a lot of developments in this. Yeah, we get speaking of the Jesus scene, speaking of the past and the future. You have the contrast between your uh crush, Haley, what's her, and I think it started here, right? You looked at her age and you're like, Oh yeah, that's for me. Kaylee Spinney. And then I did that retroactively. And then you have the other guy, and you have their kind of dual attitudes when it comes to this, which is very fun. And then you have the question that is posed to Forest when he's like, I know you'll figure it out. And he goes, Is that a I know you'll figure it out, or I know you'll figure it out?

SPEAKER_04 1:46:40

Yeah, do you believe in me or do you know something I don't know? Exactly. Fucking have you been here before? Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:47

That's so fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:48

Like, exactly. What are you saying? Love that setup. What are you capable of? And we get more, you know, revealed about your fucking comatose.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:57

That's what he says in Kayla. Yeah, yeah, that's good. We learn more about the Russian espionage, Anton. Yes, right? Yes, Anton Shugur Galler. So yeah, it's I mean, things are developing on all sides, and we get to see the fucking Russian guy's neck get snapped against the tire. Yeah. I was like, how does he get out of this? And that is such a fucking brilliant scene, too, in terms of the way that they intercut between Lily making the decision. It's like, is she gonna call to the Russian guy? Is she not going to? And every time that this in when you cut between her and this fight scene between these two guys who are too old to be fighting like this. And he gave he gave his backup twice. Kenton. Oh come on, I know he gave your backup twice. But it's it's smart to have like, oh, Kenton's gonna lose. Kenton's one to get stabbed, and he, yeah, exactly. He loses his ground many times. Yeah, and as soon as he starts to lose it, you cut back to Lily, and so you're like, fuck, what's gonna happen to him? Very well paced, yeah, and yeah, bring back the song from the intro because we see a glimpse of the fight in the intro. We just know who was fighting and who was winning, yeah. And I really like that intro too, with it kind of tells us, or not no, it doesn't tell us, it shows us where everybody is standing at the beginning of this episode. So you have Lily who's really fucking devastated. Yes. Um you have the uh yes, Kaylee, who's just in still inside, she's in the elevator, she's in devs, yeah, just which shows you where her mind is. You have the big guy who's outside, he's looking in nature, he's looking out into the world. Uh so you're contrasting those two people right there. Uh you have Allison Pill's character who's just fucking deadpan in in devs, she's just like feeling nothing, and you have hyper focus. You have Forrest, who is just so fucking upset with himself that whatever is happening is happening. And of which I noticed a great visual storytelling in this episode. Most of his stuff is in side profile, unless he's like being truthful. I didn't notice. You have a lot of side profile stuff in that intro, it's just his side. Yeah. And when he's speaking to Lily, it's head on. It's head on when he's talking about his daughter. But other times when he's throwing her off the scent of something or he's being disingenuous, it's a side shot, and that's how it kind of goes for for a lot of of the episode, which I think is really fucking cool. But yeah, just some fucking just brilliant fucking filmmaking in this one that stood out to me. More of the homeless guy? Yes. I wonder if that guy's gonna come back. No, he doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:45

What's the line? I wrote his line, it was very funny. Definitely that kind of unprofessionalism that led me to a life on the streets.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:53

I love that. Yeah, very funny. Yeah, yeah. Any more random stuff? We just kind of jumped into random stuff here because we're going over conversations.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:00

I ranted for so they might think we did it on purpose and we're good at this. And then you gotta call it out. Sorry, guys. Uh speaking of call out, shout out. What's his name? The ex-boyfriend. Yes. Playing Dark Souls 2. Exactly. I saw that. I was like, Yeah. Yeah. Iron Keep, which sucks. Not a good one. Awful level. Oh. Not a great game. Oh, okay. And a really rough uh level.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:27

But I knew that would give you a boner.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:29

It is fun. Um, and yeah, the man is directing a FromSoft movie. They're officially filming. People are showing uh behind the scenes pictures, leaked photos. It's real. This is a real thing that is really true. And it comes out next year? Yeah. What time next year? I wonder. I don't know. I just need an official cast, not who they're playing, but enough with this rumor.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:53

Cast the lead, I thought.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:54

They keep saying rumor. I want to know officially who's in it. I don't want to know who Kaylee Spenny plays. I have a theory, but just tell me she's a real person that you like. No, there's no way she's playing Randy. That's crazy. Pull your head out of your ass, Nick. Embarrass me on this podcast. The fog when she talks to the guy because of San Francisco. Yeah. Fucking beautiful, man. Oh, yeah. It's so cool. I wish I went to San Francisco. That's great. You should go. I I really wish. I I I might not for weird reasons.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:27

Don't worry about that. Um another bout of uh very good visual storytelling, and it's in a fucking transition establishing shots. So when she's she punches in the code one more time and it's like, oh, for the Sudoku. Oh yeah. And she's like, oh fuck.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:45

Yeah, she got scared.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:46

The transition between that scene and the next, it's establishing shots of the city. You have the freeway just going through straight, and then you have the famous curved hill winding this. And then the last shot you see is a sign that says dead end, and then you have her go up uh to the guy's apartment. So it's this fucking brilliant thing of like she thinks the path is straight, but it's riddled with curves that are gonna take her into weird places and where she can end up dead end fucking dead end. Sergei died dead. Yeah, is that what you meant? And it could be, oh, maybe she shouldn't pursue these things, and this whole line isn't gonna get you any answers. Yeah, it's all it's works on many levels. Yep. And it's just a fucking transition scene. Visual storytelling, folks.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:37

It's fun, so good. I did laugh because me and you have talked about this so many times at the beginning when she's talking to her mom on the phone, that her mom references because she goes, I haven't been friends with them since high school. That is such an old fart parent move to reference. Whatever happened to Mac Rogers. It's like, I haven't thought about Mac Rogers since high school, dad. Oh, yeah. Why are you mentioning old people like this? And her just alone on the couch saying, Oh, I have friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:07

Yeah. And then all the other heroes. Liar. Biggest liar in the world. Brutal. And yeah, it sounds like a very supportive mother. It's like her boyfriend just self-emulated, and she's like, Ah, you okay? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:21

Come to her. I don't need to come down, right? Like you're fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:24

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:25

I liked uh how the phone deletes. Oh, yeah. It was cool. And the noise, the the the music cue of the it was cool. Yeah. Little thing that was fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:36

Yeah, I like Kenton's line when he's talking to Anton, who, yeah, it's funny, him being like calls him Ivan.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:43

Or whatever, just to be a just to be a prick. Uh, but he just says about Lily, wrong time, or sorry, wrong place, wrong time, wrong boyfriend.

unknown 1:53:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:54

Yeah. He just has that's the second time that he's done this three thing, because I think in the first episode where he's like, you Russian, her Chinese, me, me worried, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's I like that he's keeping the consistency with the little. Yeah. And yeah, I think we we've talked about and we will talk about more once we get to civil war. Uh, but Alex Garland understanding America from outside being a uh person from Britain, or the lines that he writes for the Russian guy saying the doublespeak stuff, exactly, because it gives you the cover of Virtue as you lie, and it's just like, yeah, God bless America. That's that's our whole thing right now, especially right now. That's what do you mean whole thing?

SPEAKER_04 1:54:39

What are you referencing? Uh Joe Biden. Biden's America. This is Biden's gas prices.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:48

Yeah, the show's good.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:49

The show's very good. It's fun to watch because it's still episode two. I don't know what the hell's going on. I think I know. Yeah. You think you do, but you don't. It's good, man. It's fun. And yeah, now we got two new characters. We got the old guy and we got Kaylee. Yep. Those are now characters. We don't like each other. No. I do like this show. And yeah, I I love Alex Scarlin when it's great. Yeah, which yeah, I'm so this is one of those things of like who's doing more of this in film and television. I want more of these things. I want more people doing this with sci-fi.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:30

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:30

Or just with anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:32

Agreed.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:33

Medieval fantasy based on a video game. Just anything. Yeah. I like this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:39

I know. It's gonna be so interesting to see him do medieval fantasy. I don't know, man. Very weird.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:45

Well, we really ran out of gas there. We just puttered out, just uh sluggishly stumbled to the end like we always do. We never end big, we never start big, we never end big.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:56

It's awful. We would just spend all of our energy calling each other stupid in weird, passive aggressive ways, taking swings at each other. Uh next week we'll be back for episode three. Maybe Josh Jenkins is on episode three. We forgot. Uh so if he is, that's awesome. You're welcome. If he isn't, uh we'll try to rant a little bit less next episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:21

Or at least about different stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:22

Just kidding. It's all the same, except for episode three of devs. So we'll we'll we'll be back next week. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:29

I love you. I love you too.