Before We Hit Record With Business and Master Coach, Caryn Gillen

Caryn helps coaches make their businesses as great as their coaching. We chat about everything from the hidden experiences in coaching that lead to powerful results to how Caryn achieves a 100% close rate on her discovery calls. 

Watch The 100% Close Rate Discovery Call Funnel with Caryn Gillen (releases June 26th).

Please click here to give an honest Rating/Review for the show on iTunes! Thanks for your support!

Links mentioned in this episode:

• Listen to episode 746 where Rick talks about passing the baton to me and his new direction.
• Listen to episode 720 to get to know Kwadwo. 
• Listen to the next episode with Caryn Gillen

Kwadwo [QUĀY.jo] Sampany-Kessie’s Links:

• Subscribe to The Art of Online Business’s YouTube Channel 
• Book a strategy call with Kwadwo!
• Grab the Facebook Ads Lead Gen Cheat Code course to cut your lead costs and double your email list!
• Download the Free Facebook Lead Gen Ad Setup Checklist: Set your ads up like an expert ads manager!
• Visit Kwadwo’s website for Facebook Ads help
• Say hi to Kwadwo on Instagram

Caryn’s Links:

• DM Caryn: https://www.instagram.com/caryngillen/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome back to another segment of Before we Hit Record. And if you're watching on YouTube, which you should be, and if you're not yet, head down to the show notes below and subscribe to the YouTube channel. You can see Karin here with me. Hi, karin, hello Hi, and I can't wait to get to know you. You help coaches make their businesses as great as their coaching. Coaches make their businesses as great as their coaching. And I'm going to add on to that and say, when you have your guest expert episode, consultants or people that have a consulting or coaching part of their business let's say, course creator full-time and then coach or consultant part-time are going to be able to benefit. What you're going to talk about, which is I can't wait because you said you have 100% close rate on your discovery calls Like, what you said is you don't get any consults that don't say yes, and so in the next episode we're going to talk about that and how you make the hidden experience and the coaching results visible so that you don't have to sell, so that your messaging and content attracts the right people to you.

Speaker 1: 1:11

Cool, so if you're listening to this, that is coming, but first, karin and I are just going to get to know each other.

Speaker 1: 1:17

That's what, before we Hit Record is all about is all of the cool conversations that podcasts hosts and online entrepreneurs have before they record an episode are now public.

Speaker 1: 1:31

You get to know her before you go and follow her on Instagram and maybe even inquire to work with her, and it's going to be a cool conversation. If my voice is new to you or my face is new to you, hi, I'm Kwejo. I'm the new host of the Art of Online Business. You can head down to the links in the descriptions below if you want to see where Rick went and what he's doing, and there's also another episode linked up there where you can find out more about me and why did Rick choose me to be the new host of the Art of Online Business, the new host of the Art of Online Business. But one thing I can assure you is this will still be the place where you can come to get tips and tricks and strategies and behind the scenes peaks, and definitely Facebook ads help, since I'm a Facebook ads manager so that you can scale up your course creation business from low six figures to high six figures. And with that, karin, hey, thanks for being here.

Speaker 2: 2:26

Hey, thanks for having me. It's good to be here. It's good to I mean, now I need to go listen to that episode about where did Rick go and why did he choose you.

Speaker 1: 2:34

So you sold me on that. Right? Well, I guess I can tell you, since we're getting to know each other, right?

Speaker 2: 2:41

Yeah, how did this?

Speaker 1: 2:42

happen, and whoever's listening to this episode doesn't have to go listen to the other ones. So rick is doing an ai project, okay, as in. So he decided to pivot not using the word pivot, as many of us, including me, we use that word. When we business isn't going well, we make a different direction or we change right. But he actually his previous business was going great and and he just was getting more and more excited about the AI space and he's been doing online business now for like 10 years, and the previous direction of serving like established online course creators and coaches and membership owners he was doing that for like at least five years, I believe, and so he decided to change to where his interests were and he did and he's doing quite well at it Same thing, actually helping online course creators and serving like membership owners and coaches but now he was always very he's a strategist, he's a thinker, he's very he's like a life coach.

Speaker 1: 3:43

He's very good and so now he's applying all those same skills but helping folks like you and me use ai in our business to reduce overwhelm, save time, help us make more profit and impact. So it's still like the same yeah, overall approach, but focusing on ai and how that works. Cool, yeah, awesome but Awesome.

Speaker 2: 4:05

But what about you?

Speaker 1: 4:07

What about me?

Speaker 2: 4:07

Yeah, how did you end up here?

Speaker 1: 4:10

Oh well, it started when I was a twinkle in my father's eye and I worked, so after I got I was in China for 12 years. Did you know that?

Speaker 2: 4:18

Yes.

Speaker 1: 4:19

Okay, cool. And then I got stuck out in Mexico on a vacation with my wife and two kids and couldn't do the business that I had running in China anymore. I could not pivot it and I did have to pivot it in the full sense of how I described that word just a moment ago and I couldn't. I couldn't pivot it from a very niche approach to teaching Mandarin to expats, non-chinese folks who worked in China conversational style. I couldn't pivot that to teach Mandarin to anyone who wants to learn Mandarin around the world, though I did try, like developing new courses and new marketing, all this. So, when my life was falling apart, I reached out to Rick to coach because I had already been in like his high level mastermind as a client with my previous Chinese business and he said yes, and so he gave me like a part time job and that's kind of where, like fall of 2020, I started and that's where I learned a lot of my skills and sales and marketing and how to restructure or build out a team to reduce, like, your overwhelm and make you more impactful. And, of course, facebook ads. I had a part-time job working in a facebook ads agency right about that same time and that's kind of where I got my skills.

Speaker 1: 5:35

And then the podcast. Rick rick's a great boss, you know, he's just a great guy and what had happened is I didn't know that he was thinking about this pivot and he discusses openly anything I'm sharing. He discussed he has discussed on the podcast before but he was going through like a phase of burnout you know, burnout, I guess, combined with interest, pivoting. And so he tells me out of the blue, kind of coaches me to start my own business doing what I was doing for him and then managing Facebook ads too, and I'm like, okay, let's go. And so, like he helped me get started with that, he definitely consulted me for a moment and then, once it became clear that he was going to change directions, like about eight months later, we started talking about me being the new host of the podcast. That's why I'm here.

Speaker 2: 6:28

Yeah, that's a nice way to get somewhere.

Speaker 1: 6:32

It's after the hard work, right After all the tears. It's been a good. It's been a good, challenging journey, but, yeah, it's big shoes to fill for sure, shoes that I could not ever fill. I mean, that guy has a ton of experience and he's really good at what he does, so yet here I am.

Speaker 2: 6:52

Yeah, I think the first place that I heard you speak at all was on Brenna McGowan's behind the launch.

Speaker 1: 7:01

Really.

Speaker 2: 7:01

I remember.

Speaker 1: 7:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:03

I was doing my morning walk and listening to you talk about facebook ads and I was like for the first time in my life, I feel like it's something I would actually want to try because I've had like an agency or something.

Speaker 1: 7:15

Try it in the past, but something about the way you talk about it made me be like this could be a good thing, maybe could be because I taught english as a second language in China for like 11, no 10 of the years that I was there and I speak super slow because I've been speaking slow on purpose for the better part of a decade and so I just don't speak fast anymore, Like my brain.

Speaker 2: 7:41

My brain could keep up with what you were saying, so probably that's it, it.

Speaker 1: 7:45

And then I never had a really strong vocabulary, so I got really happy when I figured out that, like when you want to communicate something, you think like a genius but you speak like a third grader and I'm like I've been speaking at a third grade level for all my life, practically since right great, so here we are. That's cool. I thought, I heard about you from, jordan Gill is who I thought initially told me I had to meet you. That's probably right and that was back in the fall. Why didn't she tell me that?

Speaker 2: 9:18

I connected with her and we were talking all about collaborations and she was really thinking through, like who are people you need to know, know, and you must have been one of those people okay, yeah, cool hooray.

Speaker 1: 9:31

So here we are getting to know each other where are you at?

Speaker 2: 9:34

I mean, I'm in eugene, oregon, oh okay, I know people in eugene.

Speaker 1: 9:41

Yeah, well, I'm born and raised in tacoma, kind of south, south of. Seattle, yep, and then I became a grown up in Tacoma.

Speaker 2: 9:49

I have like such a fond place for Tacoma. It's like so funny People are like.

Speaker 1: 9:56

Tacoma is kind of I mean, it kind of has a reputation to be a ghetto, and so you have fun, okay, so, first of all, how many years did you spend there? And then, what fond memories do you have of, like my hometown? This is cool.

Speaker 2: 10:08

Well, I grew up in Alaska. So if you grew up in Alaska, you usually go to college in like Oregon, washington, idaho, montana. So I came down and went to Pacific Lutheran University in Parkland, which is, you know, it is ghetto right.

Speaker 1: 10:23

Well, I would say PLU is not a ghetto university, though. No, it is not. Yeah, yeah, all right.

Speaker 2: 10:30

And then I went to graduate school in Olympia but I ended up moving back into Tacoma and living there and working in restaurants and like getting my graduate degree.

Speaker 1: 10:40

Whoa Still at PLU, or did you go to a different?

Speaker 2: 10:44

St Martin's is where I was. Wow, oh is where.

Speaker 1: 10:45

I was Wow, oh my gosh. Okay, what part of Tacoma did you?

Speaker 2: 10:49

live in. I lived in. I lived in Puyallup too, which is you'll know what that means and then I lived in stadium when I got like a studio apartment and that's when it really felt like okay, I'm like a grownup, now I have my own apartment, I moved out from having roommates and all that stuff and it was so much fun, so much fun.

Speaker 1: 11:10

Okay. So for context, because the listeners like what are they even talking about? Have you never heard of Tacoma? Maybe?

Speaker 1: 11:16

Like you've heard of Seattle, right, it's in the Pacific Northwest if you're listening from outside of the States, and Seattle, in my opinion, is like better than Tacoma, at least when I was growing up and then I became aware I took trips to Seattle and enjoyed it more. It's like Tacoma now has become, I feel, like almost a bedroom community of Seattle and like just as the tech presence grew and grew and grew up there and prices became less and less affordable, people just started moving further and further South. And now I look back to like my 20 year ago self and like why didn't you buy property in Tacoma back then when it was super cheap? I mean, my mom, like she took me to a spot nine bedroom house down facing downtown, like on the hill, downtown Tacoma, kind of by that big hospital 200 and something mid thousand dollars for like a nine bedroom house. We're talking like double stairways, like secret Well, I'm black so I can say slave kitchen like big old house, estate and I'm just like that before you dub put a campus like right there and it's like, oh my gosh, all the missed opportunities did you say you lived in stadium?

Speaker 2: 12:31

yeah, okay, so like one of those old brick buildings yeah, 10 things I hate about you.

Speaker 1: 12:38

Did you have you seen heath ledger in real life?

Speaker 2: 12:40

no I haven't.

Speaker 1: 12:41

Okay, you're like no, I don't think he lives there. Well, I don't think he lived there either, but he was there for a moment. Yeah, okay, so you like Tacoma?

Speaker 2: 12:50

I do, yeah, because I was working in restaurants and like made all these great friends that are still my friends today. So I still go back to Tacoma and have like weekends with buddies and the restaurant scene. I you know it's still fun and go to the restaurant where I used to work and all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 13:05

I wonder do you feel like I have so much respect for people that work in restaurants? I never got to a high position in a restaurant but I did drive like a courtesy shuttle for a restaurant back in college and was a bus boy and I think I was an expo for like four weeks before I quit my restaurant job. What did you do and do you feel like that kind of contributed to life coaching or maybe other parts of your experience? It contributes to the customer journey.

Speaker 2: 13:37

Yeah, like I, I was a server and it, you know, for Tacoma. It was kind of fine dining I you know it was one of the nicer restaurants in Tacoma and when. I think, about what's that?

Speaker 1: 13:51

Was it GI shenanigans?

Speaker 2: 13:53

No, it was Primo Grill Pretty nice.

Speaker 2: 13:56

So I think about the customer journey a lot and how that moment where somebody first interacts with you and, like you, take their hand and lead them through this experience and what it's like for them, and the idea in restaurants that the best thing you can do is get someone to come back within the week that they visit your restaurant for the first time, and so that's something that I always take a lot of ownership over. I brought it into, I managed a restaurant and gastropub here in Eugene, so it it became, it became important and I think it's something I definitely bring into the coaching.

Speaker 1: 14:30

Okay, so walk me through from Tacoma to Eugene. Like where did the coaching start?

Speaker 2: 14:39

In between Tacoma and Olympia. So when I graduated from undergrad, I like worked in the Sea of Cortez for a winter and I went home to Alaska and I was hanging out with my friends and these three guys were like, yeah, we're going to go to Spain for a few weeks. I'm like, can I come? And went on this trip with them and the whole time I was there I was like what is this thing called that I want to do and spent a lot of time in the internet cafes before Google and was trying to figure it out.

Speaker 2: 15:08

Yeah, it was like oh, it's a life coach, and at that point we had Martha Beck and Tony Robbins and that was about it.

Speaker 1: 15:16

Nice.

Speaker 2: 15:17

And then it was like, okay, but who wants a 23 year old life coach? And is it real and will it be regulated? So then I went and got my master's in counseling psychology, worked as a therapist for a little while and then was like, hold up, this is not, this is, this is not what I signed up for. So then I went and got into coaching for real.

Speaker 1: 15:35

Huh Cause I guess at that point counseling and therapy makes sense if you want to be a life coach and there weren't tons necessarily, like Brooke Castile wasn't running around with a life coach school right, yeah, yeah, wow, I found her later. That's cool though. So then, even though counts, so counseling and therapy, and you didn't like that, but something still kept you going because, like plenty of people, probably could have just made a complete 180, but you just decided that wasn't working, but you would still pursue the path to become a coach.

Speaker 2: 16:07

Yeah, yeah. I had this moment of clarity on a bed in Thailand. I was sitting there and I was like, wait a minute, this is not fair for my clients, for me to expect them to be coaching clients when they come in for therapy, and it's not fair for me to go to work wanting to be a life coach and then having to be a therapist. So after that, I never went back.

Speaker 1: 16:25

Nice. Can you break it down for me? Maybe the listener too? But I, I would love to know the difference between therapy and coaching. I've seen the disclaimer that like the coaching is like we're not a therapist. But you can say you are a therapist, but what's the difference?

Speaker 2: 16:44

The difference. I mean I think we have to look at mental health as a spectrum, right? So it's not like there aren't places where coaches and therapists are going to overlap, but if you have a full spectrum of humanity and human mental health experience, there are places where the medical model is going to work and we're going to be able to diagnose and insurance is going to cover things, and that's on one end of the spectrum comes up. Therapists can work with people at all different levels of mental health, right, adjustment disorder, anxiety, depression. That happens to everybody at certain points it can happen.

Speaker 2: 17:17

And then I feel like life coaches come in a little further down the spectrum and can take it all the way to the other end of the spectrum as well, in terms of, like, high performance and that kind of stuff. So we have we have crossover. The tools are a little bit different, the roots are a lot the same. Both have to know how to hold space and both should be trauma informed, because it helps and I think the more a coach can understand when therapy is the right choice for a client, like I've coached a number of clients into therapy, like they found me. I think it's great when someone finds anyone who they think can help them and they do the vulnerable job of reaching out. If you can help them get where they need to go, like that's the best thing we can do.

Speaker 1: 18:00

When you say hold space what does that mean?

Speaker 2: 18:03

That means being with a person in service of whatever is happening for them, for their agenda, or like it's not about what I can see or need or want or need, like I don't need you to feel or do or be a certain way. I'm just here in reflection and witnessing. And yeah, two, two people for one person okay, two people for one person.

Speaker 1: 18:30

The first time I met a anybody that was doing anything similar to coaching was in Rick's program and I remember in my very uneducated way on a team call, I was like, whatever you guys are doing, I want to be able to do this too, because it's working, because when you're talking to people about business, they end up crying. And in my basic understanding. It's like if you're coaching someone well, they cry.

Speaker 2: 19:03

That's when you know you're winning, at least as a new life coach. They're like. I made him cry. I think it was great. At this point I don't require the tears.

Speaker 1: 19:11

Right, I didn't. I had no concept of what was going on, except for I came to the coaching program with like consulting, like you got an issue. I'll tell you what's what I've seen the most of the most of the time. Yeah, I'll tell you what to do, right. But like they were asking questions and then more questions. I'm going to ask you about this because somebody who was on the podcast before had said that if you're coaching somebody, you're doing your client a disservice if you don't move into consulting after you've coached them. Well, hold on to that. Tell me what you think about that.

Speaker 1: 19:49

But what I was seeing inside of Rick's business was that they weren't just consulting, they were asking questions on questions, and it became clear then what decisions or business changes needed to be made, because they were really good at asking questions. Usually some tears were shed and then, like the consulting part kind of came in and I was just like wow, yeah, okay, because I noticed the result, which was that when I just consulted, people were like if this didn't work, it's because Quajo told me to do it, but because they were coaching and then consulting, it was like there was kind of buy-in on a decision. Like they were coaching people and then consulting them in a decision that was chosen to go in. So that was my first impression of coaching.

Speaker 2: 20:37

Have you done more with it? Do you coach people? Do you use coaching tools in how you help?

Speaker 1: 20:44

I am an amateur coach with no certification, so I don't think I coach very well. I did buy two books that I read and for a time let's say 13 months like I was really good at asking. Let's say, in an hour strategy call, I would ask questions for about 20 minutes before I moved, like to the consulting. This is what you do part and I learned about the thought model. Okay, though I still carry it in my mind like I don't actively use it in my strategy calls or consulting. Yeah, that's about my extent.

Speaker 2: 21:26

Yeah, cool, yeah yeah, I don't think it really depends, because I think our language has gotten all jumbled up about what a coach is, what a consultant is, what mastermind is what, like all these terms that we use.

Speaker 1: 21:39

Break it down.

Speaker 2: 21:41

Yeah, so coaching, true like in the pure form, is two people come together for the one person and it is just questions and like if you want to get certified to be an ICF accredited coach, that is all it is.

Speaker 1: 21:54

And then you can enter National Coaches Federation.

Speaker 2: 22:01

Cool, all right, yeah Right and so, and then consulting is you come in and you you're like here's how you do the thing that I'm an expert at and I'll tell you what to do. Most of the coaching that's happening especially if someone has a very clearly defined niche, like marketing or like I work with coaches on business. There's going to be a combination and a mix, like sometimes you're mentoring, sometimes you're consulting, sometimes you're coaching, and we're doing all of these things. I think it's nice for our consumers to understand the difference so that when they have a problem in the future, they know what they want to go and get.

Speaker 1: 22:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:33

Like I want to. I want to go get someone to tell me what to do, so I want to get a consultant. I don't want to go hire a coach to tell me what to do. Or I want to be exploratory and get at my own like genius. I want to go hire a coach to be in this with me, but not put everything on me about whatever they think is the right thing and I do. I do a mix of all the things and generally I like to say like this isn't coaching, but like do you want to coach on this? First you want me to tell you the options of what I see happening in the market, like more of a menu.

Speaker 1: 23:04

Wow, okay, I tell people I'm like 15% coaching and the rest of the percentage because math consulting.

Speaker 2: 23:13

Yeah, I'm more like 85% coaching. Well, maybe a little less than that, 65% at least.

Speaker 1: 23:21

I can definitely say, though, I've gotten both, or I've received both, and the coaching was more transformative for me because I've gotten the answers. I guess, before I had the answers, before I understood coaching, I knew I had the answers, but somehow couldn't put it, figure it out and put it together. And then, after I learned about coaching, and then once I started receiving coaching, I was like, oh, I have the answer, but these things in my head are in the way of me just going and doing the answer and seeing it work. You know brilliantly well, and yeah, yeah, it's nice, right, it's super nice, it's super nice, yeah. So then, how long have you lived in eugene? Maybe 12?

Speaker 2: 24:05

years okay, cool yeah, and where are you now?

Speaker 1: 24:09

I'm in central mexico okay not on the beach. Have you been to phoenix or like queen creek or timby somewhere around there? Yeah, so where I live is like there, like cacti, everywhere, all the critters, and like the odd scorpion and tarantula and snake but, we don't have the extremes in weather, so our winters are not that cold, summers aren't that hot, but they're quite nice and we have a very defined rainy season. But yeah, I'm super high in the air too, like 3,100 feet in no meters sorry in.

Speaker 1: 24:48

Yeah, we're like higher than Utah and Colorado and many spots there. Obviously not every spot, but we're pretty high.

Speaker 2: 24:56

How did it take a while to adjust to living up there?

Speaker 1: 25:00

Yes, no, yes, but I've lived in higher.

Speaker 1: 25:06

Yeah, yeah, I've lived higher. I've lived higher, though, as a thing, and so when we, when we had first taken a vacation to Mexico, like right when the pandemic started well, right before it started we were in a city that was even higher by like a good 600 meters, and so there it was difficult climbing stairs, and you just noticed, I'm like, am I, did I really just get old all of a sudden's going on? But yeah, here's not so bad, it's not too bad, I'm used to it.

Speaker 2: 25:32

Now, though, yeah, I got altitude sickness in sedona, arizona, like I don't know what the deal is. But really, yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm more sensitive. Growing up on a, I grew up like on an island, where we were on the water all the time.

Speaker 1: 25:47

I grew up like on an island where we were on the water all the time. Oh nice, Okay, Well, maybe it was. Was it vortex thickness? If you were in Sedona?

Speaker 2: 25:54

I mean it could have been, I don't even know. I'll have to look that up later.

Speaker 1: 25:58

Yeah, I don't think that exists. I just remember the one time I went to Sedona, arizona. There was lots of dream catchers, lots of vortex stuff. Yeah, there was lots of dream catchers, lots of vortex stuff, and these pink four-wheel off-road Jeep rides that took you on a train. Yeah, those were scary, but yeah. So that was my Sedona, that's my Sedona memory.

Speaker 2: 26:19

What should I know about you that maybe everyone hasn't already heard?

Speaker 1: 26:24

Oh, that everyone hasn't already heard? That should be an easy question to answer. I'm stalling while my subconscious comes up with something, because I have figured out that I don't actually talk about myself enough. I get DMs and people don't really know me at all. So something that you should know about me that people haven't already heard I can't think of another about me that people haven't already heard.

Speaker 1: 26:49

I can't think of an answer.

Speaker 1: 26:50

I guess the basics of me are I really like being in a different country and encountering different cultures and I think if I wasn't teaching Facebook ads and, to an extent, how to make online courses more successful like because actually I could have gone either way when I had to choose, because I had had training and had worked in both the ads agency and with Rick, like coaching and consulting, both of my skills were equally developed and actually I wanted to go the coaching route.

Speaker 1: 27:30

But then I'm the sole earner in my household and so I had to look at coaching, and that's actually something I'll ask you in the next episode. How do you, in a niche as a coach, where sometimes the results can be hard to define, but then as a coach who is successful and bringing in more clients and getting success for a client in a craft that can, sometimes success can be hard to pin down, even though there is success right, how do you do that? How do you define these things? Yeah, and decided you know, with Facebook ads, it's just the way forward to scaling up a Facebook ads business. For me at the time was was more straightforward and easily attainable, and so I chose to go that route and then coach on the side, so to speak, or do strategy calls on the side?

Speaker 2: 28:30

Yeah, cool, okay, yeah. I mean, I think one of the things I love about coaching is there's not a single job that I've ever come across that isn't improved by someone having coaching skills. Yes, yeah. So going any route and tapping into some great revenue generation and having this in your back pocket, that's fantastic.

Speaker 1: 28:44

I still don't know what to say about, like what's something that people wouldn't know about me that I could share. Got any other questions?

Speaker 2: 28:54

What was the thing you were super excited about when you were a middle schooler?

Speaker 1: 28:58

Oh geez, Middle school is horrible. I don't think I was excited.

Speaker 2: 29:01

That's a weird time of life.

Speaker 1: 29:03

It's. It was weird for me, weird Like I had this favorite outfit, so I had a flat top and it was kind of lopsided. Nice, I was slightly overweight and then my favorite outfit was predominantly green, like a green champion shirt. But see, this was like before a champion had like its resurgence and became popular right so like I was an unpopular champion and I also had a matching pair of green jeans. And we're not talking like pastel green, we're talking like forest green rock and the monochromatic look before it was cool I was just before my time.

Speaker 2: 29:44

Yeah, I was before my time, but like being a, black kid.

Speaker 1: 29:45

I was also before my time. Yeah, you were Before my time. But, like, being a black kid, I was also before my time. Because back then it was like I don't know, I talked to some. I remember having conversations about like hip hop artists and rappers and like looking at like across the range of like black hip hop artists. You just can't be like that back in like the early 90s. You know can be like that back in like the early nineties. You know like, and so I was not. I'll say supposed, because plenty of people said supposed to be like I was back then and, yeah, middle school sucked.

Speaker 2: 30:18

Yeah, it's a weird time of life.

Speaker 1: 30:20

Was yours good.

Speaker 2: 30:22

It wasn't so bad. I mean I was bullied, but also I had a good experience. It like hard but great at the same time. Like I remember, I was the eighth grade class president and like I was into the sports so I had the. I always had that outlet of volleyball and basketball to just be fine with everything.

Speaker 1: 30:41

Wow okay, I tried. Sports was not good. I don't think I had ambitions of performing in an orchestra, but out of a huge band like I was good at the clarinet and out of a 16 feet section that was competitive. I did hold the sixth chair for quite a long time In my band.

Speaker 1: 31:04

In that band it was significant because you could challenge.

Speaker 1: 31:08

They had like a challenge day during the week and you could challenge to move up a spot and if you made it, if you challenge somebody I don't know how familiar you are with this, yeah, but yeah, you challenge.

Speaker 1: 31:21

You challenge somebody like the next seat up, and then the instructor would just give a random song and so both of you had to like play from sight something that you had never like played, because this guy, he was just brilliant and he he was really good in leadership and he had that school had a lot of bands, like it was a very developed band program and so, yeah, I was really interested in music like at that time and put lots of hours into the clarinet because I had no friends and so it's just me and the instrument and uh, yeah yeah, yeah, I had the tenor sax, oh that was my that was my middle school band and high school band experience marching band, pep band or when, let's see, because I think I quit my sophomore year I would play jv basketball and then I would go get my sax and play pet band for the varsity game, okay, and then it was just like concert band at school, gotcha.

Speaker 2: 32:21

But tacoma, tacoma's got a good like band, like music kind of thing. Plu is all about the music.

Speaker 1: 32:30

I, I wouldn't know Like. So where did we cross, potentially cross path? I was only in Tacoma until 1999. And then I was in Seattle until 2009.

Speaker 2: 32:42

I got to Tacoma in 1999 and I was in Seattle, but we were in Seattle at the same time. I lived in Ballard for a while.

Speaker 1: 32:49

Oh, I lived in Wallingford.

Speaker 2: 32:51

Oh, yeah, interesting.

Speaker 1: 32:52

Yeah, right after. Yeah, well, on campus at UW, university of Washington, and then Wallingford after campus, until China.

Speaker 2: 33:01

Cool.

Speaker 1: 33:02

Yeah, all right. Well, I think we're going to jump into the next studio where you're going to talk about. I do want to know client, then how do we pin that down in order to share all those results? As I was saying at the beginning of this episode, taking that, the invisible results or the hidden experience, and making that visible so that the right people are attracted to us, like not necessarily in a woo-woo way, but through messaging and content. And then, yeah, the fact that you came out with you don't get any consults that don't say yes, I can't wait to talk about this more in the next episode.

Speaker 2: 34:02

Yeah, that'll be interesting.

Speaker 1: 34:04

Cool, I think it'll be. I'm just going to come at you with the questions and listener. If you're wanting to know where the next episode is, there is already a link in the show notes of this episode. It will take you to the YouTube channel where you can watch us and see Karin and until I see you or you see me, are you here for me in the next episode? Thanks for being here, karen yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 34:34

It's good to get to know you yay, all right, good to get to know you too, and we'll chat soon, okay, bye.