Adjusting the narrative

On this episode of Be Listening - Martin talks to Marni Smyth, a freelance researcher for Purple Goat about the accessibility of events. This includes her first-hand experience, what she’s been doing to change the industry and how others can follow.

Hope you enjoy this episode!

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Transcript

Martin Walton:             Hi everyone, and welcome to this first episode in a series of podcasts, created by us at Broadswords. Our guest today is Marni Smyth, who is with us to talk about accessibility events, and the important work she's been involved with in moving towards positive change in this area. Marni, thank you so much for joining us today in our first ever podcast. How about that?

Marni Smyth:                Thank you for having me. It's really exciting.

Martin Walton:             It's great to have you with us, thank you. To kick off then, can you just tell us a bit about yourself and your work with Purple Goat?

Marni Smyth:                Yes, so I am Marni. I am a PhD candidate at The University of Huddersfield, but I also do freelance research for Purple Goat and primarily looking at DEI, which is Diversity, Equality and Inclusion and we've recently been doing some work on events.

Martin Walton:             Great. Thank you. And so we think there's still work to be done in our industry to address the barriers that make it more difficult for someone with a disability to attend events of all kinds, actually. And part of a project we were involved in earlier this year for innovate UK was about improving accessibility for breakouts events and largely centered on the virtual experience and making sure everyone could contribute.

                                    So what do you think are the ways in which online events might be more or less accessible?

Marni Smyth:                I think it depends on the type of disability. I think if you speak to a lot of people with physical disabilities like myself, we would say that virtual events are often more accessible because as we don't have to worry about accommodation, travel, and all those kind of things but if you speak to someone who is maybe deaf, they can struggle virtually if they need a BSL interpreter, because not all platforms are well set up to accommodate that. And also sometimes like, for example, if you use BSL, subtitles means that you are not a part of the conversations. If you've not got an interpreter there, you can only read the subtitles, you can't contribute without an interpreter. So I think it really depends on the disability, but I think the primary thing to do is to speak to the individual, because even to people with physical disability or two people who are deaf have very different needs and it's about accommodating to the individual, not about just to try and blanket accommodate everyone.

Martin Walton:             Right. And what more do you think organizers could be doing to make online events accessible?

Marni Smyth:                I think definitely to consider think BSL interpreters. I think that's a huge one because often, like I said before, subtitles, although it allows the person to know what people are saying, they can't then necessarily communicate back or contribute to the conversation. I think when family looking at online, I think the choice of online platform is really, really important. There's some platforms that are really bad for access.

                                    From our research Zoom is the best. So I would consider using Zoom because there's lots of shortcuts for keyboards, for people who are visually impaired, you can preset settings. So you don't have to reset things every single time and connection is a lot better, video speed is a lot better for BSL interpreters. It means they're not lagging. There's a lot of platforms can lag really, really badly. So I think making sure you're on the correct platform and communicating with your attendees, don't wait for them to ask you about accommodations, put it in the invite, or the emails to say, if you need any accommodations, please get in touch with this person. Because quite often, when you contact organizers for accessibility, you get past one pillar to post before actually getting to speak to the right person. So being extremely clear on who you need to at contact for accessibility is really important as well because people with disabilities, we work, we study, we don't necessarily have the time to be constantly chasing everything, even though we have to. So to make things more accessible would make communication a lot easier and very straightforward.

Martin Walton:             And just now we are seeing a gradual return to live events, and many people are saying that hybrid format is here to stay for a while now. What about you? Do you prefer to attend an event in person?

Marni Smyth:                I think it depends on the event. If you are thinking of a conference and it was a broad for me personally, I struggle. I've never been on plane because my wheelchair are the amount of wheelchairs that get the broken on airplanes. I just don't go on one. Like it's not something I'm prepared to do at this moment in time until it's a lot safer for wheelchairs in terms of not getting broken to go on them. So I would prefer to go virtually to that. Cause then it means I'm not missing out on the event, but say for example, it's a concert, well, you want to be there. You want to be in the atmosphere of a concert. So it depends on the event purely.

Martin Walton:             Absolutely. So for you in particular, with most events from now on having a hybrid element to it, that's a good thing for you.

Marni Smyth:                Yeah, it just means I can also go last minute and not have to worry about let me snitch. I can organize my care last minute around going, because obviously people have shifts and changeover and if suddenly you want to go to an event where that needs to change, if your care is able to accommodate that and things like it personally for me, like if I saw an event that was tomorrow physically, I know there's no way I could go, but if it was virtual, I could just book on without a second thought. However, this is why, again, it's important that events companies think like how have BSL interpreters on virtual events as a standard and in physical as a standard, because that means people can book on last minute, just like anyone else. If you haven't already got a BSL interpreter booked, then chances are, you're not going to be able to get one and that person's not going to be able to attend.

Martin Walton:             Right. So what advice do you have for others perhaps who might be nervous about attending events because of their disability?

Marni Smyth:                Just remember that you are not a burden, you have the same rights. To go to that event as anyone else. And that event needs to accommodate you and be firm in what you need. Like I know it can be really difficult, it can make you feel like you're being a burden, but you're not, you have that right to go.

Martin Walton:             Absolutely. So it'd be great to hear about any standout events then that perhaps you've attended either virtually or in person perhaps before the pandemic. And were you really impressed by the standard of accessibility? Have there been any?

Marni Smyth:                I think Violes Festival is probably the best major event we've been to. The gates that we entered, led straight to the wheelchair accessible platform. If you wanted to use it, you didn't have to use it, you could go in the crowd. And if you wanted to, but they also, what was so different, which I'd never had at any other event apart from the Olympics, a couple of years later, was a possible changing place's toilet, because myself and other physically disabled people, a standard disabled toilet or disabled bathroom is not accepted, is not accessible. We need a hoist, we need a changing place. So to have that and be able to know that I can actually have a drink at the event and not have to not go all night without even a glass of water or a kind of Coke or something alcoholic if I really wanted to, is a major thing, because it's really something that is not considered a lot in events is that these changing places are so imperative.

Martin Walton:             Right. So how about events then that might have been a bit lacking? What do you, without naming names, of course, where might have they done better?

Marni Smyth:                I think the major thing that can often let events down is communication. It's so difficult to find answers to questions you passed from one person to another. So I think quite often that's the issue with events. There was one other event, it was again another festival, and to get to the platform you had to go diagonally to it. And they were meant to let us in early and they didn't let us in at the same time, so everyone was running against us to get to the front, cause everyone runs to get to the front and it actually quite dangerous cause they weren't looking, they weren't looking where they going. They were going on the front of the stage, you know.

Martin Walton:             Yeah.

Marni Smyth:                It can be really dangerous. I think corporate wise, all the events I've been to, have been relatively really good. However, I'm very confident in what I need.

                                    I'm very firm and I won't accept people trying to not do things. And for me actually at the event, as long as all rooms are accessible and apart from the toileting issue, which I now don't have to worry about, I had a surgery, so I didn't have to worry about it. But apart from the toilet thing, for me personally, the major thing with events is the travel and the accommodation like trains and stuff. But that's not necessarily on the event organizers. That's to do with trains and their preparation for someone with the wheelchair and things like that. So I think, and I've got like, I always think hindsight's a wonderful thing and there's always times you'll look back and think, well, that could have been done better. So I don't think as long as events learn from it, I think that's the main thing.

Martin Walton:             So for us as event organizers, then, so what advice would you give us when we are planning events so that we are giving proper consideration to accessibility,

Marni Smyth:                Make it clear who's contact for accessibility information and listen to the people who are asking for accommodations. Obviously you there's certain things you do and making sure things are step free, making sure, obviously fire escapes are accessible, but I really do think considering as well layouts, so if you've got someone who's visually impaired or blind, is there a lot of hazards in the room? Like lots of things where people could trip over, is there a space people can go to if they just have had a bit of an overload, and they need some time just to kind of calm down, be on their own and be quiet.

                                    Is there like a room that's set aside for that, as I've said before, changing places, toilets and I think almost with accessibility, I say, listen to the people asking for it, but don't wait to be asked for certain things because there's very, very personal accommodations that people might need, but things such as a changing places, toilet, a BSL interpreter, all those things you can book. And if you are truly wanting to make event accessible, you will book those things, not worrying if they end up being needed by someone who's booked on they're there. And it's then not a worry for the person who's booking on. They can just book on like anyone else. And potentially have a section on your event website about accessibility, about what accommodations you are already offering. So say you will have a be on say will have a change in places because then that saves also bringing up and asking.

Martin Walton:             That's very good advice. And are there any resources in particular that you think might help us as event organizers? Like for example, like a practical one might be for this podcast, for example, obviously, we'll get a transcription done and we could use Rev.com or there are other services in the cloud that will quickly transcribe this. So it's available in kind of a written form, but any other resources that might help event planners?

Marni Smyth:                Oh, that's a really good question. And some research that we've just done with PaperGo in collaboration with global and in UK was an engagement first project. And within that report, we covered all disabilities from physical disabilities, hearing disabilities, visual disabilities, neurodiversity, and hidden disabilities. And we covered the various accommodations that people with various disabilities would need. So I think that would be a really good guide to what you need. But I think the best thing to do is to speak to disabled people and make sure you listen to what they need because the best person to say what they specifically need is the person themselves. As I say, I could need something as a physical, as someone with a physical disability, but someone with a different physical disability would need something else or going off what I need wouldn't necessarily help someone.

Martin Walton:             So do you think it's possible then to make an event accessible for everyone?

Marni Smyth:                I think it is the biggest thing to make an event accessible to everyone is to be flexible and accommodating. And if someone's basically saying to you, this isn't quite right, this isn't working, don't come back with thought, well, we tried our best and this is what we could do, and take on the feedback to improve. So I think it's purely the way to make things accessible is purely to be prepared, to make whatever accommodations are necessary and to be really flexible with that. I don't think there's a one size fits all solution to accessibility.

Martin Walton:             Right. And so finally tell us what you're working on at the moment and in particular, any events in the prior plan that you or planning to attend?

Marni Smyth:                So I'm currently mainly focusing on my PhD. I've got a deadline in March, so I'm lazing with that. There's a few university things coming up and there's a exhibition currently in Bradford. I think it is that I'm looking to attend. So I do have, well, I don't actually know when it is. They haven't let me know yet, but I have, I bought stormy tickets just before the pandemic really started. And obviously it got rearranged for obvious reasons. So when that gets rearranged, if I feel comfortable going, because I have been shielding, I am clinically extremely vulnerable.

Martin Walton:             Right.

Marni Smyth:                So I'm just going to have to play it by year. If I feel comfortable going, that will probably be my first major physical event.

Martin Walton:             Yeah.

Marni Smyth:                So I'm quite excited for that if I do feel comfortable to go, but yeah, that will be my first major physical event.

Martin Walton:             Well, it sounds like there's plenty to keep you busy at the moment anyway. So

Marni Smyth:                Yeah, to be honest, I don't really have time to be doing anything else.

Martin Walton:             Yeah. Well we are really grateful, Marni. Thank you so much for giving us your time and sharing all of your insights. That's really useful for us as event organizers. And I'm sure our colleagues and peers will agree with that as well.

Marni Smyth:                Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's great that events company are really taking this seriously and looking into what they can do to be accessible. It's fantastic.

Martin Walton:             Thank you. And so that's all we've got time for today, but if you'd like to connect with Marin Smyth, you can contact her via purplegoatagency.com. And thanks to all of you for listening. Please let us know in the comments what you thought and we hope you can join us on the next one. Bye for now.