The Walk Family Podcast
The Walk Family Podcast is a show focused on biblical parenting (what the Bible says about parenting) and reaches all stages of life. Whether you are a new or experienced parent, we all make mistakes and wrestle through what being a godly mom or dad looks like in daily life. This podcast provides hope and encouragement through the Bible's teaching about being the parent God desires you to be.
The Walk Family Podcast
Hope or Despair: Confronting the Core Lies of Grief
What happens when life takes something precious from you, forever altering your path? In this deeply moving episode of the Walk Family Podcast, Tony introduces "Seasons of Despair," featuring fathers Ben and Lee who share their journeys through profound grief and overwhelming stress.
Ben vulnerably recounts losing multiple children – first through miscarriage and then his son Atticus at 39 weeks, just days before his due date. "I remember in that moment it was almost like something washed over me... my previous life is gone and I'm entering into something completely different now," he shares. Ben describes grief as "a ball bouncing in a box" with a button that triggers waves of emotion – initially the box is small and the button is hit constantly, but gradually the box expands, giving more space between those intense moments of pain.
Lee offers a different perspective on despair through a business venture that nearly bankrupted his family despite prayer and careful planning. Both men arrive at a powerful insight: identifying the "core lie" behind our pain is crucial to finding hope. These lies – that God doesn't love us or isn't aware of our struggles – must be confronted with truth, often with support from community and scripture.
The conversation reveals that choosing hope isn't denying what causes despair, but rather carrying that burden differently – allowing God to carry both us and our pain. As Ben beautifully puts it, "It's not just the surrender of it. I can't get rid of the heaviness and the pain... but letting God take you in his arms and he's carrying that too with you as you're carrying it."
Are you struggling with grief or overwhelming stress? This episode offers not just comfort in shared experiences but practical wisdom for the journey forward. Join the conversation and discover how faith can illuminate even the darkest seasons of life.
Lee Miles: (919)-559-0585
Ben Puckett: (989)-430-1963
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And a couple of years later, we lose our son, Atticus, at 39 weeks five days. I say that just because two days away from that due date it was Wednesday Things were going well in the morning. Lauren couldn't feel him kicking in the afternoon, and so they're like, yeah, you can come in and get checked if you'd like. So we did that and yeah, no heartbeat Doctor came in. We don't know what happened, but it appears we've lost the baby and I remember in that moment it was almost like something washed over me of like my previous life is gone and I'm entering into something completely different now. I've described it as that is the point where the timeline shifted. I've described it as like I'm living on a different timeline, the wrong timeline.
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, it's Tony and welcome back to the Walk Family Podcast. I am bringing you a series titled Seasons of Despair, which focuses on different experiences of life, such as marriage, raising kids and loss of loved ones, and how people navigate those hardships. Laura and I bring to the table conversations from our own home, as well as introduce some guests sharing their stories. Everybody goes through trials and tribulations in life. Sometimes it feels we can't ever escape the pain that that brings. Sometimes it feels we can't ever escape the pain that that brings.
Speaker 2:James 1, 2, and 3 says Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. This is easier said than done. Despair, by definition, is the loss or absence of hope. As a believer in Jesus, there is always that eternal hope we have, but sometimes we don't always feel like it exists. It's an incredibly challenging thing when we feel despair in this life, when we think there is no hope and all we experience is hurt and pain.
Speaker 2:My hope and my prayer is that this series will show that you are not alone in your moments of despair, and I know, ben, at least for you, like a lot of these questions you've kind of summarized, but we haven't. And again, this is totally up to you how much depth you want to dive into it. But you know, just looking at the first question right, have you ever experienced a moment of despair or overwhelming stress in your fatherhood journey? Um, ben, just because we've we've kind of navigated the first bit, I wondered if you would be willing to share kind of like the grief process and how you felt emotionally and the struggles that you went through with losing your kids, and as much as you want to share about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I wasn't sure if you were asking like for real or if this is a like you're just asking me first.
Speaker 2:I'm asking you first, before we ask it.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and then we will transition Same question.
Speaker 2:Bouncing back to you a little bit, so yeah. Have you ever experienced a moment of despair or overwhelming stress in your fatherhood journey so as formal as it is right you did allude to it earlier with just the loss of your kids? I didn't. I'm assuming that was kind of the overwhelming aspect. But yeah, just the grieving process through that, how that affected you know even your view on life, but maybe like how it affected your relationship with Lauren and just all the pieces.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, there's so much I could talk about. I'll try to condense some of it. But yeah, I remember the moment when, you know so, lauren wasn't feeling kicking anymore. She wasn't sure. She was like I think we should go in. They're like, yeah, they were very chill about it. They're like, yeah, you can come in and get checked out. And so we did. They couldn't find a heartbeat. And then the uh, the doctor came in and she was like, yeah, we're not sure what happened, but there's no heartbeat. It appears you've lost your, your son. So 39.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm sorry, this is with Atticus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, um, I Ooh good point. Um, I'll, I'll share the attic stuff after Atticus and I'll go back a little bit, Um, and I'll try to keep it within, you know, 30, 40 minutes. Just kidding, but yeah, so actually, do you mind if I restart my whole answer? Go for it.
Speaker 1:I think, it'll be helpful. That makes more sense, I think. A child so early in a miscarriage, that was tough, because it happens so often that some people don't necessarily think that's a big deal. Oh, you lost a child that early, yeah, it happens. Okay, yeah, well, you're going to try again. It's that kind of thing and for me, I think, to grieve it well, to think about it well, I had to think about it as seriously as I think my faith calls me to think about it. I believe that was my child. There's not a certain time during pregnancy where it becomes your child. It's the beginning Conception. That's your child. If that's what we believe as Christians that life begins at conception then so does parenthood for that child.
Speaker 1:And I really took that to heart and I had to be weirdly confident in my grief to not. I struggled with this guilt. There are some people who went through this almost the same thing and they're like yeah, you know it's really hard on my wife, but I'm okay. And hearing things like that, it's like. And they're like, yeah, you know it's really hard on my wife, but I'm okay. And hearing things like that, it's like am I taking this too hard? I don't think I was grieving in a way that took anything from my wife. I mean, we were grieving together, but that was a bit of a struggle because she experienced a bodily reaction. That was really difficult to go through and I didn't at all, but that didn't mean it was any less painful for me. My friend, a good friend of mine, shared with me in that time that my wife is dealing with an empty womb and I am dealing with empty arms and I just really love that, because that's that dad's excitement to like I can't wait to hold this baby. So that was really helpful in affirming me in that time.
Speaker 1:And then you know, a couple of years later, we lose our son, atticus, at 39 weeks, five days. I say that just because two days away from that due date it was Wednesday Things were going well in the morning. Lauren couldn't, couldn't feel him kicking in the afternoon, and so they're like yeah, you can come in and get checked if you'd like. So we did that and yeah, no heartbeat Doctor came in. We don't know what happened, but it appears we've lost the baby.
Speaker 1:And I remember in that moment it was almost like something washed over me of like my previous life is gone and I'm entering into something completely different now. I've described it as that is the point where the timeline shifted. I've described it as, like I am living on a different timeline, the wrong timeline, because we're supposed to have him in a couple days, whenever it was, and so now I'm living in this wrong time. And so now I'm living in this wrong time, and that was helpful to think about, as I just carried so much pain and grief that I just didn't understand. We got home from the hospital and during our hospital stay after so, lauren delivered him. We got to hold him for a couple hours. I could describe some things like that, I won't get into it, but we said goodbye to him, one of the hardest things I've ever done.
Speaker 1:Lauren, minutes afterwards passed out, and so now I'm watching my wife, just like you know the color drained from her face and she just and the nurse, who is actually a friend of ours and, I believe, god's well-placed angel for us in that time, you know she catches my wife and she's commanding this floor of like like you, you, you, we need this. And I'm just standing there like am I losing my wife now? Like it was, just, it was, it was crazy. And we get home and my parents are there. They were taking care of our daughter, my in-laws like I don't know what happened.
Speaker 1:I I went to sleep because I could no longer stay up, stay awake. I woke up and walked around the house and I was cold and I couldn't get warm and I had, I had this like physical reaction. I think my parents looked at me like what is happening to her? Like what's happening? I was just like I was disassociated. It was crazy. And you're, yeah, the body keeps the score. That's the name of a book I really need to read. Um, but it's true, my body was reacting and then carrying the emotions from that, uh, from that on.
Speaker 1:It was it was fighting despair. You know, we as Christians were called to hope and despair is the opposite of that. But but to say like, oh, I'm discouraged that my 39-week-old son died, like that doesn't feel enough. I was despairing and for the first time in my life, I reached out to people more than I ever had Usually be like, okay, I'll figure this out, I'll withdraw, I'll bottle it up.
Speaker 1:But I was like this is too much, I need people to help me. So there's this guy at work who's a mentor of mine and I was like, can we meet every week, every couple weeks? And he was like I'll do whatever. Actually, I invited him to the hospital when we were still with Atticus, which I would have just pretended like no one was there to support me and wouldn't have done that. But I was like, no, I actually need him here. And Lauren was like, yeah, perfect. And so I reached out. But then, moving on to losing Samuel, I felt like I was getting better. I felt like I was not getting rid of grief, but I had avenues for grief.
Speaker 3:Like how to handle grief.
Speaker 1:Yes, yep, handle grief, yes, yep. So, as it came up, like where, not just like what to do with it, like where to put it, but like what avenues to walk down to to not let it become despair. Basically, my, my mentor described it really well just in describing grief in general. It's like it's like a ball bouncing in a box and when it happens, when the grief happens, the box is really small and in this box is a button on, like, say, the top of it, and this, and in this box is a button on like, say, the top of it, and as ball's bouncing, it hits that button, and hitting that button is grief coming up, like a wave of grief hitting you, and so the box is small and that button's being hit over and over and over. But as you learn how to carry it, the box gets bigger and the button's still hit, but it's not as often, and so you're able to kind of live through it a little better.
Speaker 1:I don't know what happened to my box when I lost my second son. Um, that was a compounded grief. That, yeah, I didn't know how I was going to survive the first time I mean, then second time and then third time. Right, that was really hard, you know, went, went to counseling, had some serious conversations with my wife about how I was doing and, yeah, I eventually got to a point where I was like I have to make a decision here, because I think I was just kind of holding on. I was just like, ok, I need to hold on, I need to survive for my wife, for my daughter, for my work or whatever.
Speaker 1:But there's a point where I feel like the Holy Spirit is saying okay, ben, it's this way or that way. It's despair or hope. And to go the way of hope is not to deny what is making you want to despair, right, instead, it's taking that in your arms and handing it over. I don't even know if handing it over to God, but then letting God take you in his arms and he's carrying that too with you as you're carrying it. I like that imagery better. It's not just the surrender of it. I can't get rid of it. I can't get rid of the heaviness and the pain and the experiences I've had. Honestly, the trauma I experienced just even experiencing what my wife went through is nowhere near what she went through, but it's still its own relative trauma and difficulty. But, yeah, got to a point where God was like you have to go. You will go one way or the other, and if you don't consciously think of which way you're going, it will be despair.
Speaker 2:How have you battled that balance even now? Like you know, you lost samuel just under a year ago. Have you felt like the balance between essentially like the intentional choice right of hope and and despair? Has that intentionality gotten easier over the last 11 months?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good question. Um, so it was in the summer. I read this book called um he lost a baby too, I think. It's this little self-published thing. It was like 50, 60 pages. Uh, the dude, the author, gives his phone number in it. Uh, and just this incredible guy who went through an experience like that and basically kind of gave me some of those words and understanding of you know this, this way or that way kind of thing. And it was through his guidance, his uh kind of firm, like you have to do something, but also like, let's, let's do it. Uh, give me, give me in the book. He's like give me a call, it, let's, let's do it. Uh, give me, give me in the book. He's like give me a call. It's like, okay, um, and he's like, let let's live every day honoring the kids we don't have. And I was like, okay, let's do it.
Speaker 1:And the week after that was one of the hardest weeks I had had since, you know, the weeks following right after losing samuel. Because, because I had decided I need to work on this, and so I leaned in and what I was leaning into was the pain, the grief, the struggle, and so I was almost like, wow, is this a bad idea? And I'm like, no, this, I'm actually getting into it to get through it, leslie, but it's just learning how to, how to carry it and finding those avenues, realizing like wow, my wife had a lot of avenues following the loss of Riley and Atticus and I didn't build up any of those, or I didn't build up much of those for myself. And losing Samuel, I'm like what do I do? She? She had those avenues right in front of her to walk down. I had to establish some of those for myself, even though I didn't want to. I didn't want to.
Speaker 1:That's the thing with grief. It's like I don't want this. So why do I have to work on this? And God's like I know it's unfair and I think of what Jesus carried right. Jesus, up until right before he was arrested, said do I have to do this? I don't want to do this. And God said, no, this is what's going to happen. Jesus said okay, like he didn't want it, but he was okay with it. He went through with it anyway at the same time. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Thanks for sharing man. I know the unfathomable emotions Like I can't Truly, like I can only and we've talked about this in the past but like I can only imagine like that kind of grief, that kind of pain.
Speaker 1:Yes, I appreciate that phrasing Because you could imagine it right. You could imagine your kids and not having them anymore, you know. So I appreciate you saying that, as much as I don't want you to imagine that right, but that that is unless it happens right.
Speaker 2:It's like that is the closest to that I can ever yeah that, yeah, it is yeah. So lee I I don't know if you want to kind of tag on that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was just thinking your, your audience, your other listeners and and I have kind of like a miscarriage grief experience as well, but I wanted to share maybe, if there was a listeners that don't have that, haven't gone through something like that, and I know some of this is just in general, how do you handle despair, how do you go through grief? Um, but to take it to, I know so often myself and many other men that I've chatted with so much of their identity can get wrapped up in work, what they do for a living, and their career, their vocation, and even with trying not to and having the Lord work through that area of my life, it's still a struggle, a constant struggle for myself. And to kind of go through an area of despair or you said, overwhelming stress was a business venture that my wife and I had taken that almost bankrupted us.
Speaker 3:And this was not in the infancy of our businesses. This was past, that the business was mature, was flourishing and made a move that I was even prayerful through it. Um had done a ton of research and um, and really thought, like man, this is a really good route. And then, um, it did not work out the way that we had hoped and expected. And um and there's. There's so much more to that story, but I think that the biggest thing was when it first started. The initial response was like man Lord, why like why?
Speaker 3:would you even allow this to happen? And um, and just really struggling through that piece of like why? And coming out the other side, I really leaned very heavily into James 1 and that the Lord is using these things to perfect us, to make us more like him, and he's drawing us into these trials, these tribulations and this side of heaven. Sin's happening, crap is happening all the time and I know this is the common, like Ben you probably in your line of work people are always asking like man if God's so good, why is he allowed these bad things to happen?
Speaker 3:It's probably that constant thing that you're dealing with as a pastor and I think, coupling in with that, there's so much to unpack there. But if God is good, then why did he let this thing happen? If he really is who he says he is, why did he let this thing happen? If he really is who he says he is, why do you let this thing happen? Is that and I kind of made that in our first episode where we're chatting through this is that man? He is still making lemonade out of lemons all the time. He is out judo moving any move that comes. He's out chessing any chess move that's happening for his glory, for the final outcome that all this grief, all this despair will be done, ko'd, knocked out. It's done forever. We'll never have that forever.
Speaker 3:So for the other listeners that maybe you are going through a hard time and maybe if you're struggling with relating with anything that Ben and I have shared, but if you could relate with this piece that God is good through all those times and there is an end. There is an end game. Ben, you used that term earlier, but there is an end game and it's already done. We're on the winning team and he will take these things and he will help us through these times here and there will be the next chapter of life where it's all done, it is fully handled. Ben, you said that you're surrendering these things, but the surrendering of those things is like you are surrendering yourself, like they are in you and you've surrendered yourself. I pictured exactly when you're saying that, like you being picked up by Abba father, you're being picked up by him and there's a time when that grief is fully done, it is no longer a part of you and that hope that you're talking about, where there is no more grief, despair, sadness there's nothing.
Speaker 3:It will be the hope that us, as believers, our faith has to really rest in. And so again for the listeners as you're going through this, that connection piece. I'm not speaking for Ben, ben was hitting on that, but I think the two of us are really leaning into that piece of surrendering ourself and that hope to come. That's what our faith is really in. I don't know how the unbeliever lives this side of heaven. That's craziness.
Speaker 1:I appreciate what you shared and I think with what I shared, it's whatever is causing the despair or overwhelming stress. It's figuring out what is the core lie behind that, because that gets you to the hope, or that at least that's answered by the hope, right? So my core lie of this situation is God doesn't actually love me. It's not that God isn't good. I'm like. I believe you're good, I believed it ever since I said yes to you, but I don't feel like you love me because this happened and I just know that's not true. So it's a choice every day. What am I going to believe? Am I going to believe that or believe what the Bible tells me, what my Christian friends and family tell me, that that is not the case. And we know he loves us so much that, exactly what you were saying, there'll be one day when there's no more of this, and just you know. Side note, I love speaking to the listeners. And just a side note, I love speaking to the listeners If anything I've shared you're resonating with. I mean especially the guys. I feel like guys have a harder time finding those avenues.
Speaker 1:I remember when I picked up the urn filled with the ashes of my son. I went to the funeral home by myself, picked it up myself and I was driving home and I had this kind of shouting match prayer moment with God where I was like I was like I don't want you to use this in any way, where I like I can help people Cause I went through it. I got so mad about that idea. It's like, well, you know you walk through it and you can walk with other people through it and I just I could not stand that idea but I would to walk, uh, with people through this. I mean, I'm still in the trenches, of course, um, there's no through it, I'm finished. But if anyone's hearing this, it's like man, I need to reach out to somebody. I'm some random person I would love to tony, put my info in your description here, got it in the description of the footnotes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shoot me an email.
Speaker 2:Benpuckett at heisawesomecom. That's right. No, at the end, I'll throw that in there. So I'll ask you specifically to say it, and then I'll throw it in the footnotes.
Speaker 1:Okay, sorry, specifically say it now.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no, when we're wrapping up.
Speaker 1:Okay, got that.
Speaker 3:So, but to say it now no, no, no, no when we're wrapping up. Okay, got that so, but um ben, thank you. Thanks for sharing, brother. Thanks for going sharing some of that stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man just thank you, pray, praying that the lord, and I know what you just shared there of the shouting prayer part of like man, god, I don't, I don't want to be the, the vessel that we use, but that's man, I don't say this lightly. There is no out chest matching him. There's no, there's no lemon that can't, he can't make lemonade out of an. All of our despair and all of our grief. And again, not belittling anything you or anybody has gone through, um, but that that was a lie.
Speaker 3:I was buying at times of past childhood trauma and other things before fatherhood, of not just thinking like man, lord, are you really even out there? Are you so big and you have so much going on? Is is my chump change life even on your radar? Is it even blipping anywhere? Like, where are you in some of those things? But hearing what you're even saying there and some of the past pre-fatherhood type things, is knowing that the Lord is, yeah, this side of heaven. Crap is happening. It's sad, it's so sad, but the hope that's to come and being able to be used when, when we've matured through those things. I love your. I've never heard that before, but the grief box piece I'm going to use that so often. I can picture that with working with some of my clients that have gone through really hard times and even myself of childhood stuff. Is man, that grief box has grown, it has matured, the button this hit so um, not as often anymore. So thank you, thanks for that moment there.
Speaker 2:What are some pieces of advice that you would give dads fathers specifically, uh who are struggling with feelings of inadequacy or feelings of despair? Either one of you.
Speaker 3:You want me to go first. Can I say something real quick? Yeah, ben made a. I'm going to make a personal note when I get in my car and write that down. But what lies are we buying? Personal note when I get in my car and write that down. But what lies are we buying? And if there is an inadequacy specifically in this piece, inadequacy part is what lie are you buying to that's making you feel like man, I'm not enough, or whatever aspect of inadequacy that you're struggling with. Is the core lie. That was Ben's exact word that core lie with. Is the core lie. That was Ben's exact word, that core lie. I'm going to be using that. I'm borrowing that one from you, ben. That is the go-to piece right here.
Speaker 3:Is this fight, this side of heaven? This fight is not flesh and blood, it's not politics, it's not all, it's, it's no human thing. Is what scripture is telling us that it is spiritual. There is an enemy that wants his kingdom to succeed. It will not, it's already it hasn't. It will not succeed, but he wants to and he'll fight until the end, trying to get whatever inch he can get on the game on the game field here. Get whatever inch he can get on the game field here.
Speaker 3:But that core lie of you you're inadequate, or any of that crap is are you buying it? Are you starting to believe? See, believing a lie means that you think it's truth, you think it's reality. So the core lie is you think that's truth. So the core lie is you think that's truth. And I would encourage that. To identify a core lie, you need to be in truth. You need to be with other brothers and sisters in Christ. You need to be plugged in to God's word. You need to be praying, in whatever level. Does that mean like man right now? You got five hours in the scripture, whatever that, wherever the Lord's leading you, if it's five minutes, but you need to be plugging in, if the fight is real, then if I was the enemy, I want to separate my opponent from the rest of the things that will strengthen them.
Speaker 2:That is.
Speaker 3:the piece that I would strongly encourage is to identify a core lie. We have to know truth and we need to be in truth, we need to be bathing in truth. So core lies are obvious. The counterfeit is so easily seen. My dad shared this with me at a young, young age and I've held fast to this and shared it to the next generation in our family. But how he shared it with me was how our professional counterfeiter uh like people that uh are a part of like the treasury, that are able to identify counterfeit money right away. So how, how do they know a counterfeit likes right away? How do they know is they've studied the real thing and have been tested and have spent so much time with the real thing that the counterfeit so easily seen?
Speaker 1:yeah, and that would be my, my big heavy focus point on that part there yeah, if we don't see um what we're subconsciously believing, then we can't see how it infiltrates our lives. Right, there's real power in like you know what I shared before. Like I don't feel like God loves me. There's some real power in just coming to terms with that, even just putting out loud I go wait, but all my, all my life since becoming christian, I believed he loved me. That's why I became a christian, like you know it's. So I immediately start confronting it with what I know to be true. So I love that you shared that. Uh, the counterfeiting idea. I've always loved that, uh analogy. I also encourage people. There's a book called parenting by paul david trip. Have you read this?
Speaker 2:tony, uh, I think I'll leave I either have it on my bookshelf or it might be a different parenting book, but okay, I know you readily, I know paul yeah yes, okay yeah, yeah, parenting by paul david trip.
Speaker 1:I mean, he's such an awesome guy, he needs three names on his books, right? Um, like honestly love this, this dude. Um, he looks just like jim gordon from batman, that's not a big deal, but that's right. Um, but he has a chapter. I think the chapter is just called grace. I mean the book, to be fair, is kind of repetitive, like it's very repetitive at some point. But I think sometimes as parents we kind of need that a little bit like when you use, and that's yeah, yeah, it's purposely reminding us of things.
Speaker 1:There's one chapter called Grace where I think he could literally just most of. It is basically just grace upon grace upon grace upon grace. He just kind of keeps repeating that and I love that I put so much pressure on myself. I see my friends putting pressure on themselves. No matter what age you're at, I think maybe it looks a little different. No matter what age you're at, I think maybe it looks a little different.
Speaker 1:But I think, as men who are trying to be faithful to our God and our families, I think we just put pressure on ourselves, maybe because of all the bad examples or whatever out there, all the possibilities or thoughts that jump up in our brain, that we go wait, no, that's not right and we have to confront those things. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves and sometimes I just have to take a deep breath and just go grace upon grace upon grace, because that is what god has for me and there's no like living up to, uh, this standard god has for me. Um, and if I have a standard for myself, then how often will I feel like a fraud if I'm not living up to the standard that god doesn't have for me, right?
Speaker 3:well, ben, it would be you. Project that on your own kids.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Project that on your wife, you project that on everything else. If, if, if again you're going down that route, that's man, that's that's good. Another another big podcast, note right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's grace upon grace for me. And then I, like you know, when I'm at my I don't know wits end, I've had no energy or whatever it is, with my wife or my daughter and it's like, okay, all right. Here's how I want to react about grace upon grace upon grace, Like I want to receive it and I want to give it as well.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 2:Ben and Lee. For those that want to connect with you, lee, we'll start with you. Is there a email? Is there a site when can they connect with you directly? And then, ben, right after Lee's done, you can jump in on this as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if you want to call myself Ben, I love that. The book that you're reading, the guy put his phone number there. That's awesome and that's putting it right out there. So yeah, brothers and sisters in Christ, man, call my cell 9-1-1. Wait, wait, whoa, and that is how you get a hold of it.
Speaker 1:Try that first. There you go. If that doesn't work, try this one.
Speaker 3:So 9-1-1, and then you're good to go. So 9-1-9, there you go.
Speaker 2:Five, five, nine zero five, eight five.
Speaker 3:So nine one, nine, five, five, nine, zero five, eight five. There you go. When you cut out that first part, yes, um, we'll even in an email yeah, um, I would say call Okay, um. So that'd be my texts. Okay, yeah, Text call either of those, okay, hey.
Speaker 1:Ben, how about you? Yes, same for me. Um, I'm serious. If you're listening to this and and anything I've shared in my story, you resonate with that. You're like maybe I should reach out. I I don't have many people in my corner, like I was mad at God at that one point, but I would love to be in your corner and I would love to be used by him to do such things. So please hear me and call me or text me. That works too. Email my phone number is 989-430-1963. Call or text. Please don't send me anything about like who I should vote for in the next election. I've had enough of those.
Speaker 3:So that means, everybody send that to that number.
Speaker 1:It's over, guys. But and email as well. Feel free to do that. P-u-c-k-e-1-b-d at gmailcom. That's right, gmailcom. I don't know why I added that a little bit, but I'm serious, do it If you're thinking maybe I should, you should. I'm not a perfect person to be the one you contact, but I could be a person for you.
Speaker 2:All right, ben Lee, thank you guys so much for joining me and just the conversation is fruitful. It was a blessing for me to just be a part of it and I know that people that listen are going to be blessed by it. So thank you so much to just be a part of it and I know that people that listen are going to be blessed by it. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Walk Family podcast today. If you haven't realized already, laura and I are switching the format of our show. The primary difference is that we have changed our releases to fit more of a serial format, which means we will be sending out episodes throughout each week for a season. Then, once the next season begins, another series will come out. Each series will contain around 10 to 12 episodes give or take.
Speaker 2:For the winter season of 2025, seasons of Despair is our series. We still release an episode on Tuesdays, but you may see another episode pop up later in the same week as well. Also, be sure to hit the little bell to subscribe. It gives you each episode instantly once it's published. You can always connect with us at our website, thewalkfmcom, and, if you are really interested. A link in the show notes below allows you to sign up for our monthly newsletter really interested? A link in the show notes below allows you to sign up for our monthly newsletter. Our letter contains updates on the Smith family to stay connected with us, while also providing tips, tricks and challenges we are experiencing. If you sign up, you also get a free sneak peek to the first chapter of Prayer and Promises, which is a book that I'm writing and will hopefully be publishing this year. Thanks again and be blessed.
