The Breakthrough Hiring Show: Modern Recruiting, AI, and Talent Strategy
Welcome to The Breakthrough Hiring Show: Recruiting, AI, and Talent Strategy, a podcast for leaders building better hiring systems and stronger teams.
Hosted by James Mackey, the show features conversations with founders, CEOs, talent leaders, and recruiting experts on how great companies hire, scale, and adapt as technology changes the talent landscape.
Episodes cover talent acquisition strategy, recruiting operations, AI, automation, candidate experience, hiring analytics, and executive decision-making.
You will learn how to build scalable hiring systems, use AI and recruiting technology effectively, improve the hiring process, and make talent acquisition a competitive advantage.
Built for founders, executives, talent acquisition leaders, recruiters, and hiring teams.
Thank you to our sponsors, SecureVision and June, for making this show possible.
The Breakthrough Hiring Show: Modern Recruiting, AI, and Talent Strategy
EP 210: Curiosity, Excellence, and What It Takes to Build Strong Teams
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
From a multicultural upbringing to leading talent acquisition at Juniper Square, Felicia Menon has built her career around curiosity, storytelling, and a strong focus on people. She shares how asking better questions, investing in others, and embracing different perspectives have shaped her approach to hiring and leadership. This conversation explores how today’s TA leaders can combine human insight with evolving tech and AI to build stronger teams.
Book mentioned: Alchemised by SenLinYu
Connect with host James Mackey on LinkedIn!
Thank you to our sponsor, SecureVision, for making this show possible!
Follow us:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/82436841/
SecureVision: #1 Rated Embedded Recruitment Firm on G2!
https://www.g2.com/products/securevision/reviews
Thanks for listening!
Welcome And Meet Felicia
SPEAKER_00Hey everyone, we got Felicia Menon on the show today. Felicia is currently the head of town acquisition over at Juniper Square. Uh yeah, really looking forward to having you on today. Thanks for joining me.
SPEAKER_03Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, me too. So hey, where are you from?
SPEAKER_03I am from well, I'm from Wisconsin. That's where I live now, but I grew up in the Illinois suburbs. So my parents moved there when I was three, four. So uh very Midwest kid and very close to my family that still lives in Wisconsin. Um, but I I ended up living in Chicago for quite a bit. So have been in this area for a while.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Yeah. And um I I you were telling me you have like quite a uh a really cool multicultural background as well, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So my my parents went in Milwaukee, but my dad is actually from India, from Bangalore. And then my my mom's side of the family is a mix of Polish and Croatian. So so talk about an interesting mix. I actually ended up growing up a lot more closely
Midwest Upbringing And Family Roots
SPEAKER_03with my mom's side of the family, just to geography and and and who I had access to. And we had a lot of really cool traditions, traditions there, but it was really cool to see that kind of presented differently and my my dad's side of the family, my mom's side of the family, and I think helped really shape just kind of how I viewed the world and different people, different differences, religions, all of those types of things. So very early got to see that.
SPEAKER_00That's such a cool background, like growing up in the States and then having like you know, parents from different parts of the world. Have you traveled to uh India, Croatia, Poland? Yes.
SPEAKER_03I have I have not traveled to Poland or Croatia actually. That is on my list, and I I hope to get to it really soon, actually. Uh, I have been to India. We went um three or four times when I was a kid, and I I really remember those, some of those trips, the ones that I was old enough to, but I remember my first thing when I when I landed in India, I was like, where are the road signs? I was like six and I was so confused on um kind of what the the massive differences there. But I actually got the opportunity to go with my current organization as an adult um two times down. Um we we built an off office um in Bangalore in Mumbai uh with Juniper Square, and that was a really cool full circle circle moment. So I'd gone as a kid with family, I'd gone in as an adult with my organization and gotten to hire teams and offices
Multicultural Identity And Travel Lessons
SPEAKER_03there. So that was yeah, very, very full circle.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. That's so cool. You know, I've always wanted to go to India. I I don't, I think I I haven't because it I feel like I need to go for like a long period of time because it's such a massive country and it's so culturally diverse with within the country. So it's uh you know, I I would love to go. I actually have a friend of mine who um, you know, he sold his his company and uh he went, he was initially supposed to go for a month, but he just fell in love with the country and he just continued to travel. And I think he's been there for like five months now. Yeah, he's just like staying, he's he's loves it so much.
SPEAKER_03I'm never coming back, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um no, it is a beautiful country, very beautiful culture, and uh very welcoming. Uh, that's my been my takeaways.
SPEAKER_00Do you know where you want to go in Croatia?
SPEAKER_03Not yet. Um, besides, so my mom and my sister and I always talk about like we need to just like do a girls' trip and go to the the beaches, um, see where our family was from, um, see some of that, but uh no, haven't haven't really fully thought it through yet.
SPEAKER_00You know, I was there for about a month.
SPEAKER_03Really?
SPEAKER_00And I I loved it, and I was actually going to stay for three months when I started. So one of my companies is Secure Vision, it's um an embedded RPO that I started a decade ago. And the first few years it was not a scale organization, that was not the intent. I had met my uh girlfriend at the time who then became uh my wife, and um we were traveling, and so the idea was you know, we're just we're gonna travel and live in different places. This is like right when Airbnb became a thing, which like really opened up possibilities, yeah. Um, but I was right outside Dubrovnik and like Big Zatone, um, which is like a small town outside of it, uh and it was absolutely gorgeous. I had to leave because the internet wasn't um at the time wasn't strong enough, and I was like trying to like I was trying to close an exclusive deal with Grubhub, and my internet kept cutting out, and somehow they looked past it, and I was able to close it. But like I remember being at a cafe with like the internet, uh you ended up having to leave a little early, but it's such a beautiful country and such an amazing culture.
SPEAKER_03I I love the people there, so both, both, and I'm lucky that I get a mix of both of them in me as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's such like incredible places to have like family and to be able to travel to. That's so cool. You mentioned like religion was a pretty big deal, right? Like when you were growing up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, very much so. And and I actually really appreciate that even from a young age, like I knew my dad had grown up in in um a different combo of religions. He he had an interesting background, but um, my mom, he he really switched to Christianity, Christianity Catholicism when he met my mom. And so we really grew up in that. And when I I was in a middle school, we switched to um like non-denominational Christianity, which if anyone like asked me what it is, I always just say, like, you know, the church with the electric guitar, um, you know, just that kind of like modern community uh values, um, kind of central to what the the church was about. Uh, I also went to a private Christian school. So it was uh that was in the same building as my church. So it was very
Faith, Values, And Asking Questions
SPEAKER_03like every day of the week, I felt like I basically was it was that church. And I actually really respect and am deeply grateful for the values that I got from from being raised in that. Things like be kind to people, treat people the way you would want to be treated. Um, you know, kind of having that clear sense of right and wrong, I think has stayed as a through theme throughout my life. Um, I also think being raised in it in that deeply can come with its rooms for judgment and and uh misunderstanding sometimes as you're growing up. So when I was 16, 17, I actually really started asking a lot of questions that I think at the time weren't necessarily welcome in the room. And it led me into this like really lifelong journey of wanting to understand as much as possible about a lot of different types of religions. I think that also came from just like knowing my dad's background and some like Hindu, the like the Hindi and Muslim background that impacted him. I was able to go to college and learn a lot more through some like classes that I just decided to take. So um I'm appreciative of it. And then it's kind of been a lifelong journey of just of learning more about them.
SPEAKER_00Do you still are you still very religious now?
SPEAKER_03I am not, though I do, I will say I have a deep respect for people who are and also the value system. I think they're a lot more common across all types of religions and belief systems than people realize. I think a lot of people like to differentiate become because of them. Um, but what I've learned is there are so many similarities and a lot of core values that exist across all of them, which I think I could go into for a lot longer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it's it's really cool. I find like religion is just such a huge part of culture and to the largest extent like deterministic in terms of our worldview and how we see like language is a huge part of our worldview, like it determines our our like religion. I so your dad, when he lived in India, was he did he follow a different religion?
SPEAKER_03He actually went to, I believe it was like a Jesuit school or a Catholic school, so he had that from a schooling pers perspective, and then his mom and dad were different. I'm forgetting the split, they had different religions, which which is common there. Um, so he had a very wide amount of exposure, but he didn't really bring that into kind of how we were raised, besides that we knew about it. Um, we watched like uh Bollywood movies with him, and you would see the different kind of like religious representations there. So I was always kind of curious to learn more. Um, the the mini gods and things like that represented. So it was always there, but um, we were very much raised kind of the in the religion that my mom grew up in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's so cool. It's such an interesting background. Yeah. You know, I like I do find like also it's interesting. Like when I've um we've had a few guests that talk about like their faith that are still like really big within, you know, whatever the religion they practice. It's interesting. Like I do feel like there's definitely different, like, kind of like vibe or aura that folks give that are like have a lot of faith and are like heavily involved in church. A lot of times there's like almost this like lightness or self-assuredness that is um I almost wonder if like people with a lot of faith are like happier. I don't I don't know, like figured it out in a way, yes. Yeah, I mean they don't like know they still don't know, like nobody knows what's going on here. Like, but like it's you know, it's like there's just this this energy that you sort of get from people that are really in tune with their church, and I think also just like with their value system, I think it's like that's a huge part.
SPEAKER_03I think value system is is key. And for me, again, my learning has been it's it's across all of them. Like, I don't know if like in my personal belief system, I don't know if one is more figured it out than the other. And I that brings me comfort in some ways because I think there are so many cultures, so many countries, so many people around the world, and they're all seeking and finding that kind of the f fulfillment and value system that I hope makes us all better people and try to treat people right, you know, things like that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, for sure. And you also um you're an older sister, right?
SPEAKER_03I am. Yeah, I'm two years older than my sister, uh Malia. We were raised very close and like many sisters. Um, well, I would specifically say she probably was more sick of me as times as the eldest sister who liked to tell her what to do. But we would bicker and fight growing up, but we were always very close. I mean, you had to be. We were the same side size and clothes, same, you know, kind of room growing up. You just kind of had to figure it out. But now she is my closest friend, confidant. There's something that can't be traded when you grew up in the same home and have the same just values alignment. So so loved growing up with her.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. And
Sisterhood And Early Life Foundations
SPEAKER_00so then you went to um when you grew up, you you went to uh University of Michigan, right?
SPEAKER_03Yes, I did. I did go to the University of Michigan. Um, as I said, I'm a big Midwest kid, so I I chose to keep that theme going into um my education. And I was always a very curious kid, kind of top of class, wanting to, you know, know all the answers as I was growing up. And I was picking across a couple schools, and Michigan was was very well known academically, and I thought there could be some really good opportunity for me there. Um, I ended up starting in biology and pre-med, actually, which really wasn't a good fit for me. I I loved reading grow growing up. My mom would have to ground me from reading sometimes. She's not proud of it when she admits it, but she was like, you wouldn't do your homework, you wouldn't uh focus on the things you need to do. So I had to take away
Switching Majors And Loving Writing
SPEAKER_03the books. And I was in college and I was like, what if I was just a literature, an English literature major, and we gave this a try and I combined psychology with it, I think to try to make it more palatable. I don't know. Um, but I got a lot of questions of like, what what are you intending to do with that? And I I will say I really didn't really, really didn't know at the time. I would say this, what I'm doing today, is eventually the perfect mix of what I studied, but um, it was definitely a switch up.
SPEAKER_00I think honestly, like more people should be getting degrees in English and literature these days because I feel like the writing ability of our folks in this country has just like plumbed. It's sort of scary. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, yes. One of my favorite things about it is just everything is a story, if you think about it. Everything really is. Um, there's typically some type of like statement or thesis or point anyone is trying to tell, and there's a whole lot of kind of ancillary supporting characters and plot points and anything. Reading about it and then writing about it, I think really opened up my mind. And I think it actually, in a lot of ways, does apply to recruiting and telling people's story and understanding deeply kind of what their motivations are. That is all very unfortunate.
SPEAKER_00And also just being able to like write is so that you don't sound like chat when like you're employer branding or when you're reaching out to people. Like, I I don't know, maybe I'm just like the old guy in the room now, but like when I get an email where it's like you know, the two commas and like the three everything in three parts, and the the what's it called? Like the big dash, uh the but yeah, yeah. I'm just like, gosh, why would you don't send this to me? Like, I don't like write. Like it's like you have some personality behind those words. Who are you even like with Grammarly? Like, I use Grammarly more than I use um like I don't like AI too much for drafts. Um, actually, I'm like a little resistant to that, but even Grammarly, I feel like you gotta be careful because it it'll recommend the same, like the exact same kind of flow or format for every person. So you end up just sounding like everybody else.
SPEAKER_02Um I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I just I feel like writing and reading and literature and those those degrees are just so incredibly valuable. I I I don't know. I I think it's it's I think this is changing, but I think just the traditional view of like for folks that are getting into business like us, like doing like a business degree is just it doesn't really make sense to me. Like, I don't there's I feel like there's so many other types of degrees that are so much more valuable.
SPEAKER_03A hundred percent. It can be broad, it can be very broad, and I think there is something very special about like forming a specialty or like having a passion about something. Um, no, business degrees can can lead to that as well. That's okay. Yeah, of course. It's not I really do appreciate that that I got to go just like so deep into some of the things that I was passionate about during my like formative education years. I don't think you really get that opportunity in a lot of ways later from just like being able to full-time like spend your time learning and studying something that you care about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I'm just like a huge advocate of people following their passion. And like whatever you're passionate about, you're gonna be best at, and you can translate most things in life. Like, there's the same fundamental principles to being like successful, I feel like at essentially anything.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Like it doesn't just learn, like you know, the more you just just like whatever you're passionate about, you're gonna learn the most, and you can trans. I mean, I don't know. That's anyways. Yeah, yeah, that's just uh that's uh pretty cool. And so you um you were also as a young adult too, and maybe this is just coming from like such a multi, uh a culturally diverse background. It sounds like you also got really into doing some solo trips, right?
SPEAKER_03Yes, yeah, that my first one. I'm trying to think when my first one was. I actually think it was post college. I did a trip to Europe. Now I will say that one was with my sister. Um, I think my first solo trip was to Hawaii. It actually was a couple months right before lockdown. So right before COVID. Um, and I'm so thankful I did it. I'm so grateful that the timing worked out. But um I went for about two and a half weeks to Kauai on my own and was able to um hike, meet
Solo Travel And Making Fast Friends
SPEAKER_03people. I ended up um taking a surfing class, and um, that surfing instructor, you know, introduced me to a bunch of people and was able to kind of meet people locally there, which was I think I think is always the best way to travel because then you actually have to see like they took me to a beach that only locals could have access to and took me to restaurants that I would never have found on Google. So I always love going and just kind of trying to get embedded as possible. So that was my first one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love like traveling and getting to the local spots and getting you know what's weird. I do you ever have this experience like when I travel, I feel like I'm better at meeting, making friends when I'm not at home. Yes, maybe I'm just like more social. I don't know, but like I will if I'm in a random country or city, like I'll meet somebody and we'll hang out all night and go to all these different places, and like that never happens in DC. Like it's like literally never happened. No, I've thought about this a lot actually. You have okay, so this is a shared, it's not just me.
SPEAKER_03This is just a shared story because one, I think two things happen. One, you I meet people and I just like there's just this freedom, like you might not ever see them again with technology now. Yeah, sure, maybe you can stay in top of them being via Instagram or whatnot, but like you're just like with someone for a night, like or just like a day or whatever it is, and there's just a freedom to just like having fun and getting to know somebody, but also I am way more active when I'm traveling. So, like, there's this almost like fear of time running out when you're traveling, you want to see everything. So at home, I would be like, All right, I saw like I went and did something fun on the Saturday, did two things. I'm gonna go home and rest now. When you're on vacation, you're like go, go, go the whole time. And I feel like that's when you kind of meet the best people when you're like never resting, never going back to the Airbnb or hotel.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. That's um that's so cool. So, um, what was your like biggest takeaway from Hawaii? Like, what did you love the most? I mean, it sounds like just meeting the people, right? Like the relationships.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the people I did uh a couple uh a year and a half ago, I did a big trip to New Zealand as well. And I think there was two common um takeaways from both of those trips, which is so I'm someone who is very in my regular life, um organized, efficient. I call myself the type type of type A that's like not color-coding things, but like if kind of five steps can be two steps at all times, that's kind of how my brain is thinking. But when you go to places like Hawaii, like New Zealand, there is this element of like island time that they run off of. And there is a warmth and openness to both of those cultures that I found so deeply needed as a person to just kind of go slow down, appreciate things in life that aren't just about hitting the next goal. Um, it's about community, it's about trying new things that you haven't done before, doing things that might like scare you. I've done a lot of really cool hikes and kind of plane trips in and out, things like that. So I I've really appreciated those those trips to kind of give me a break from the the the day-to-day kind of grind and mentality, if you will.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think like solo trips are also really cool. Um, just like gives you time to like think and process. And yes. I feel like it's solo trips or other trips to just where you disconnect from like technology, or they're I feel like they're so important, and like the older that we get and the more responsibilities we get, and it's like either kids or parents getting older plus career and like all of this stuff, and it's like it can feel even harder to like get away, yep, but it's it's so impactful, like it just gives your brain time to process. And I mean, I I I did the um it's different, but I did um a trip to uh actually West Virginia because I'm in Virginia, so I like the I don't know if you've ever been to West Virginia, it's actually an incredibly beautiful state. People don't really know that, but it's just nothing but this like mountain landscape, it's just absolutely gorgeous. And so I got a cabin like in the middle of the woods up on a mountain without cell reception type of thing, right? Of course it was Wi-Fi, you can't, you know. But I like I stayed away, right? I'm already not a social media guy, so like I, you know, besides LinkedIn, I have to, but I just like I it was for Secure Visions, my company's 10-year anniversary. So I was like, all right, I'm I'm I'm out, I'm gonna go with like a few weeks without you know work, and it changed me. I was not expecting like I came back with like this level of like enthusiasm and perspective, and like realigned with my value system and like just my motivation and everything was just like I came back with an intensity I felt like I hadn't had since I was like 23. Yeah, you know, it was crazy.
SPEAKER_03I can deeply relate to that. About six months ago, I did something very similar at a wellness retreat about six hours north of me here in Wisconsin. So drove with my dog to a cabin in the middle of nowhere, didn't use my phone except to call and check in with my mom once a day because she was like, I need to know right, of course, yeah that you're safe and alive and that there's life, you know. So, but I agree with you. I came back so rejuvenated, and I think rest is is a big thing, but also just having time to think. We move so quickly. There's so many like competing things in day-to-day life from um kind of televisions to T to phones to all people, all the different needs around you. And I felt so very much like I just needed to slow down and I needed no one to need me, and I needed to just focus on myself.
Wellness Retreats And Real Rest
SPEAKER_03And I came back with just like a a vigor to try to like really stick as much as I can to protecting the times in my day that of working out, of of kind of having my me time of those routines that like build you up. It doesn't need to be like a whole week off. You can put those pieces into your day-to-day life, and I'm still feeling the effects of that six months ago. I think I need I need a refresh. I'm like, I need to go like every six months or something.
SPEAKER_00I think so. I think every like I mean, ideal would be for me like once a quarter. I just it's just that I don't know how realistic that is. I guess I I probably could if I was like super intentional and organized.
SPEAKER_03It would just be kind of that may stress you out more at some point.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if I could do it, but yeah, every six months, like I minimum once a year, yeah. But probably every six months is like more attainable for most people, and it's already hard to do that. But the argument is like, okay, well, we can't get away, it's too hard. It's like, well, you almost can't afford, like, you could look at it if you're lucky enough to be able to do stuff like this, obviously. Like there's a there's an element of that, but like you can almost like can't afford not to because you come back with so much perspective and energy that it you're just gonna execute better and you know, like a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_03It's really you investing in a better you. And I think there's a lot of things people pay for to do that. Um in other ways, but this is just uh one that can really for me at least. I feel like it jump start jump starts me.
SPEAKER_00So what what do you do on this wellness retreat?
SPEAKER_03Like what was it like so it was never done anything like that? So I've recommended it to a lot of people. Um some that some of my my colleagues, one of my colleagues and one of my friends is gone. Um, but it was so it was like um yoga spa. Um there was a kind of like sauna rainroom cold plunge kind of options open to you, which which I took a lot of part in. So it had a big health focus. Um they cooked for you and it was all all organic, all fresh ingredients. So that was also, I think, a really good reset for me in the week. So it was like the best food, but it was like wild rice and and um different types of because it was fall at the time, so different types of just kind of squashes and these just super yummy dishes. The cook actually at the place was had lived in like 30 states. Um, I think chef actually is the right word, but had lived in like 30 states in the US, had lived a bunch of places internationally, and just like meshed it all in his cooking. So that was really cool. And I was like picking his brain. I was like, tell me more. This is the best thing I've ever had. Yeah, uh so yeah, a lot of just meat. And then honestly, I read in my cabin a lot. I I brought two books and I just read for as long as I wanted and with nowhere to go. And that is always I don't get to do that much anymore in my adult life.
SPEAKER_00What were you reading?
SPEAKER_03At the time I was reading a book um called Alchemized. It had just come out, it's like this thousand page, I guess I would call it fantasy, though I think it would it would also be called kind of like a dystopian fiction. It was very, very good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, highly recommend. It's really good. Yeah, it looks really cool. I'm checking it out on um uh Google. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um that's it had a I what I was gonna say is it had almost like a gothic like Frankenstein feel. So to be reading that in the middle of nowhere in a cabin, like at night, I was like, Yeah, it's a little, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Maybe I shouldn't have picked this one, but it was it was I was so that's funny because like I there was a few months ago where like actually it I it was I've I was riding the kind of high from doing this like trip where I was like in in the woods. Sometimes I feel like I almost have too much energy where I'm like trying to relax at night and I can't, so I was like, okay, like I'll just start like reading and and see if that can help me like rev down, like or kind of like you know what I mean. Like, and I don't know why this was a good idea, but I ended up like picking up like a horror book, and I was like, that is I was like halfway like reading like chapter one, and I'm like, wait a second, spiking your heart rate. Yeah, I'm like, what am I doing? Like, this is not like this is not helping. This is this was uh a bad idea. Like I stopped reading it, I forget what it was called. It was like Buffalo something, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Um, but yeah, anyways, it was just like yeah, I promise there are other books that probably wouldn't have spiked your heart rate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's uh so my girlfriend and I, we we have a uh rule. So when we do trips to the cabin and stuff like that, we don't do horror movies. There was like we were watching one time we went like to to West Virginia, we were watching like a horror movie called The Ritual. I don't know if you saw that, it's on Netflix, it's pretty good. Um and it's it's a good one, and like halfway through the movie, like something the electricity just short circuited and made a loud, like bashing noise, and like it all the lights went out, and it's like the middle of the night, we're just like in the middle of the woods. We're like, Nope.
SPEAKER_03Like this is like we don't no, thank you.
SPEAKER_00Like, absolutely not.
SPEAKER_03This is not um I will say I was thankful for my German Shepherd during the participation of the show.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's there you go. That's yeah.
SPEAKER_03I get some some scary dog privilege, even though he's oh yeah, nobody's the least scary dog ever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, people are terrified of German Shepherd, so that's perfect.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it is perfect. I know, I'll take it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Um, well, cool. So, like, so let's talk a little bit about like where you're at today. It's it's such an exciting time for you. I mean, you you were um promoted, uh, I think you got what your third or fourth promotion at Juniper Square um recently, and now you're you're you're running the the town acquisition program over there, right?
SPEAKER_03I am as of January.
SPEAKER_00That's so freaking cool. Well, congrats on that.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Thank you. It has been a crazy journey, and each step of the way, I don't think I could have ever predicted. I think that's how a lot of people could say it, but it has been um a really fun ride with my team.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's it's so cool. Um, so what are you doing this year in the role? Like what's your obsession and and focus currently for 2026?
SPEAKER_03So I am I'm learning a lot as I go and I'm giving
Stepping Into TA Leadership
SPEAKER_03myself a lot of grace to to do it as needed. But what I will say is I really lucked out. Um so coming into Juniper Square, I actually was someone who always said, I never wanted to go into management. I actually said those words. I said, I don't think I see myself as as a manager. Um, and I had a mentor, and you know him, Tommy, who basically just said, Are you sure? Just that way. He said, Are you sure? Um, and he said that he just saw some things in me and he really gave me the opportunity to freely try. And I found that I found a lot of fulfillment and um and excitement and being able to um not only help others, but lead our team in a direction that made us all better and made us um the best that we could be. And so I ended up growing into that in my time at Juniper Square. And as I stepped into this role leading the team in January, I really wanted to stay kind of core. And I and as we look at this next year, I do want to stay core to um the sides of me that love to get things done, love to move quickly, love to be that kind of that individual contributor mindset, but really help that kind of next um level in my team, um the way that I've been helped through my career to recognize potential and how we're growing this. So for me, a lot of this next year is going to be focused on my team on and helping enable them, empower them, and provide the resources for them as we navigate this role of AI and new technology and new things that in the recruiting space we we haven't necessarily explored before. Uh, and then also at the end of the day, we are growing fast at my current company. So we just need to make sure in this next year that we're hitting those goals and again prioritizing building the best team that we we possibly can.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. So, like when you think about empowering your team and being a good mentor and and helping them be the best version of themselves, like, do you have any advice or or um like for other leaders tuning in? Like, how do you approach that like on a day-to-day?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, a few things. I think one, having a really great team that helps in all of this. I I need to shout out my team team in that. They are just a group of really great people. Um, but I think for me, I'm so close to the role that a lot of my team is doing. So it's uh I'm always finding ways of how can I step in and help and remove remove roadblocks. I think that's a common term. But for me, it's really about um, they are very, very capable. How am I giving them the tools, the resources? That could be systems. We have a lot of different um tools that we use at Juniper Square. That could be learning resources, that could be my time and helping navigate uh different areas. So there's a couple of different things, but I am really encouraging just my team at this point in time to if Juniper Square can give you kind of X, Y, Z in the form of resources support, be curious, be the person that asks, hey, what does this system do? What does this button do? Go figure it out, go try. And I think the pairing of those two leads to what I'm hoping uh in this next year is a lot of growth for everyone.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's so freaking cool. I think you also um let me see here. I just want to make sure I cover everything here because you you you shared a lot of good stuff with me. Um you know, you you also talked about tech investment, right? And and enablement. And um it sounds like that is that is something that's like, you know, as you as you mentioned, already meant like a big part of enabling your team too. Um a lot of people are like evaluating tech stack like more than ever, right? Yeah, uh so like how are you even approaching like enablement, automation, AI, or determining what roles tech should play and not play? And like what's top of mind for you right now?
SPEAKER_03How much time do you have?
SPEAKER_00Let's do it. Yeah, what do you got?
SPEAKER_03Um, I think there's so many uh learnings in positive and negative ways. Um, I think what I have learned. So for us at Juniper Square, we use Ashby as our applicant tracking system, and then we supplement. We utilize and are testing out AI interviewers, and then we also have a different tool for headcount planning, um, and then a different tool for some more of our kind of like HRAS people off soft. So there have been a lot of system implementations at Juniper Square this year. And I think if I could go back a year, I would, you know, you learn so much when you go through them. But it's real. There can be fatigue from this.
Tech Stack Choices And AI Principles
SPEAKER_03What I appreciate about my company and the leadership here is there is this kind of mentality of try fast, fail fast. So don't be afraid to try, you know, test it out. Is it working for us? What are we learning? Um, but then also if it's not working, make the decision that it's not working and let's let's move on. And so I've really um empowered my team to try. Now, give it your full effort. Um, one of our other systems that we use is is um gem for sourcing. Um, and there are times where the team has been like, this is really working for me. And then times that they're like, this really is not. And I'm spending a lot of time solving for this. Um, and and and there's room as a leader to say, um, okay, great, thank you for trying that. Uh, let's continue. Or, you know what, if something else works for you or you've tested out else something out, you know, go do that. I think that's how we're looking at it. But one thing that we've done um at Juniper Square is we partnered with an organization called Talent by Design to help us to find some like AI-specific principles to evaluate our systems and tools that we're using. We just went through that activity actually. And so I think moving forward in this next year, it's going to be a lot more thoughtful of like what's the end goal of where we want to get versus, hey, this is a great system for sourcing. Let's just try it out. What are the actual outcomes that we're trying to drive from it? So that that so far has been our approach.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's awesome. Ashby seems to be like pretty popular right now. I mean, I I think I know Greenhouse still is, uh, but uh Ashby, it's like I'm seeing with a lot of the fastest growing companies right now, Ashby's name coming up more and more. I'm just curious to get your thoughts about like what you like about it and and why you feel like it's so popular these days.
SPEAKER_03I will say I've worked with a lot of systems and I and I don't say this about all of them. I am a huge, huge fan of Ashby. Uh, I think it is a system that has a really, really big footprint and you can use it in a lot of different ways. And you can also use it for the the bare minimum. You can kind of move candidates through pipeline, and if that's your main goal, that's great. But if you really want to dive into the data, if you want to dive into the um key setup and forms and sequences and all those types of things, Ashby has a lot of functionality. Uh, and that has been really great for a very adaptive team. We're someone we're a team that often, um, as we're planning for the year, might not have to pivot very quickly. I think a lot of teams do. And I think Ashby's really empowered us to do that.
Why Ashby Works For Fast Growth
SPEAKER_03Uh, we have a person on our team who is uh her name's Kendra, she's a people analytics manager, and she has made us just the most beautiful dashboards and views into our hiring teams and departments that I've never really had in previous organizations and all built through Ashby reporting and functionality. So uh a few different things, but huge fan, huge fan over here.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. Bright hire is pretty impactful, right? Like I think Bright Hire is uh pretty cool. I mean, do you feel like you're seeing a major like productivity lift, or is it just like do you see it more as a nice to have? I mean, I think it's it's cool, but like in terms of driving strategic outcomes, like how much of a impact are you seeing there?
SPEAKER_03Really good question. Uh to be honest, I will say I'm still a little jury so there. I we just implemented it in January. So we're still uh going through some of the kind of pain points of implementation of getting users bought in and and and using it. I think with um, now don't get me wrong, with any type of A co-pilot or AI assistant, it's so nice to not need to take manual notes. It's so nice to not um kind of have to be splitting your brain as you're talking to somebody and making sure you're
AI Note Takers Need Human Judgment
SPEAKER_03getting the right information down. But I do think there is a loss there in some ways of just kind of the um your own opinions that you form during an interview. How are you making sure that those are being logged and tracked versus just a summary of what the conversation spits out? So we have done some enablement with our hiring teams that there still needs to be a review here. There is still an action by our hiring team to submit their feedback because we don't want just your AI summary output. That actually doesn't really help us make any type of informed decision. What we need is how did you assess that answer? How did you say on a scale of one to 10, this person did on that? That's what AI isn't going to give you. So I think it in some ways is a nice to have, but I also think a year from now, I think they're gonna look uh AI co-pilots and just kind of note takers' interviews are really going to continue to adapt into how we're using them in those situations. So um for right now, I'm kind of just observing and learning from it.
SPEAKER_00And and then with the um AI interviewing, uh like top of funnel. Yeah. So you're leveraging this for inbound, I would assume, or is it okay? Um are you doing like SMS voice, like video? Like what what are you?
SPEAKER_03So one is kind of like a chat, um, like chat interview back and forth, and so it's logged, like written answers, and one is a um uh audio uh interview. And we we're doing it and we're testing it on one department in Shaneper Square, and this is a department that we have very high volume evergreen roles um in the years of experience between one to five um plus years. The reason that we did it in this department is that we have a lot of proven success of what are good answers and what are not good answers. Um, and so with that, our recruiters, the
AI Screening And Candidate Experience
SPEAKER_03way we're using it right now, is we still do a resume review on what we would, you know, usually move forward. However, we have given ourselves like some freedom of hey, maybe I wouldn't have put this profile forward before based on the resume in my limited recruiter screen time. Um, I'm gonna move it forward with an AI interviewer. And our goal is to give more candidates the opportunity to be evaluated through this type of process. And then based on those results, move people accordingly forward to recruiter screen. So for us at this time, it is not replacing any step, it is merely supplementing and hopefully giving more opportunity to evaluate more candidates more quickly. We're using it to really adjust what is a recruiter's role during that conversation, then in the first check-in. If you can collect a good amount of information pre-a recruiter screen, I really think that that all has allowed us to up-level the questions that we're asking and the detail then that we're able to go to our hiring managers with on why or we why we do or do not recommend a candidate.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, to me, I think the AI screening at a high level, not even replacing, it's not about replacing a recruiter. It's about the recruiter saving potentially 40 plus hours a month in administrative work, reviewing inbounds. When you extrapolate how much time it takes to review every resume, like how much that adds up in doing the screenings, you don't actually know this, but um, so Secure Vision is my first company, and I just started another software startup called June. Uh, June is an AI interviewer, and the a lot of like what we're seeing with the pilots that we're running is like literally in some cases like 40 plus hours a month. Like recruiters are getting back, depending on the inbound volume, of course. There's like almost this concern of like candidate experience, but what's actually interesting is that candidates are giving pretty strong feedback with these tools, they don't have to take time off work, they don't have to invest in speaking with somebody unless it's like a high-level fit. They're getting an instant response, right? They're not just like off, you know, not knowing if they're gonna, you know, if they're gonna hear back from a company. Um I I think it's the highest leverage use case for AI in recruiting right now. That's just from my experience being in tech for like the past decade. I've helped like hundreds of companies hire, like I've seen it all. Yeah, I think there's some other like I think bright hires like it's impactful, but from like an actual output productivity perspective, like eliminating the top of funnel bottleneck is I think probably the most one of the most important things folks could be doing.
SPEAKER_03Um that really excites me what you said about those that the time savings, because I think we talk a lot about AI and like it's gonna make us more efficient, but like then the next step of this like conversation is like you saved 40 hours. What are you gonna go do with that? Like you can now, you can do so much, like you can up-level like our like focusing more on talent excellence, making sure we're spending that time deeply evaluating a candidate. Um, there's so many examples here, but um, I I like use cases that allow for those time savings. And then the second question of like now what can we go do? Right. Um, so yeah, that really excites me. I think that's where we're we're heading.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I also I find it really exciting, like because you hit the nail on the head, you said something really uh really smart. You talked about how like the the conversation with the recruiter then changes. So it's like the the screen, like their screen, right? Like the human screen becomes like more in-depth and more valuable. So not only do you see like a typically a uh a higher pass-through rate to like the hiring manager round or the next round, which isn't high a high pass-through rate isn't necessarily always a good thing, but like in this case, if it's like somebody who's been vetted by AI and then has a more in-depth conversation with a recruiter, because like I, you know, the reality is like the amount of time I feel like that recruiters have with candidates to screen, frankly, isn't enough if the candidate's really good.
SPEAKER_03Yes, like 30 minutes is just I can spend 15 minutes of that just doing the basics.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, you're doing and it's like, okay, well, then it's like you go over in some candidates you want to meet with, like, there's times where it's like, I'll even tell like our recruiters at the RPO firm, Secure Vision, like, hey, like someone's really good, you might want to set another call with them before sending them through. Like, just have two convers like, because I could spend 15 minutes just talking with a candidate about references. Like, can you get a reference for previous direct manager? How are they gonna talk about your performance one out of 10? What are they gonna say you do best? What are they gonna say is an area of improvement? Like, just that takes like 15 minutes.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_00I mean, like those, like the valuable part of the conversation just takes longer. So it's like it just makes it a higher impact conversation where it can you can dive deeper, you know.
SPEAKER_03I agree, agree so much with that. And I think um you mentioned that point on like candidate experience, like people are worried, like, hey, does this make it a better or worse candidate experience? I think that's where like transparency in what you're doing is so key. We really invested in that in our communication to candidates who are going through this process. And uh, and our goal there was to communicate. We're actually our goal is to increase the opportunity of more people being able to explore and move through a process at Juniper Square than reduce by introducing this stage. We're actually able to collect more information on more people more quickly that then allows that that kind of um more like additional opportunity for candidates. So I think that's for sure.
SPEAKER_00I think it's just like it just for senior recruiters, it it opens like a lot of not only the hours back, but just like the impact. It's like the the the impact of being able to like I just don't want like if you're paying a rec senior recruiter a hundred to a hundred and eighty thousand a year or whatever it might be to be asking like basic like just what are we doing? Like that's not a good like from like an ROI, just like a pure investment perspective, is like why why, right? Um that's yeah, it's really cool. And then you know, I I I did want to talk a little bit about like just zooming out, right? So we talked about kind of your obsession this year, like what you're focused on. Um it's like super helpful, beneficial, like everything you've shared. Uh zooming out, like what are your top takeaways in town acquisition at this point in your career? Like for other leaders tuning in, what's most important in terms of being a successful TA leader?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I I think really some of the through themes that I've learned in my career and then kind of stepping into this new role is that we talked about this a little bit, but um, I was never really someone who like planned to grow based based on the title or where I wanted to be in three to five years. I just wanted to be the best at the role that I was doing. And I think that is really what I want to take into leadership as well, is this kind of this path to excellence. What does
Trust, Brand, And TA Excellence
SPEAKER_03it mean? And for me, it breeds motivation, it breeds excitement, it breeds like me showing up every day and and really wanting to continue to improve at what I'm doing. And I think that then bleeds and and hopefully can share that with the rest of my team. Um, I I think also just I'm very aware as a talent leader that every opportunity, every conversation, every interaction is a chance to build trust, to build brand and to be authentic. It doesn't matter, people can really tell if you know you're you're not being that kind of authentic self. And my goal is to always kind of be the same in as many rooms as possible. And so with that, I've really formed some really deep trust. Trusted relationships with leaders across the organization here at Juniper Square that I think lended itself to a lot of the success that I've seen here. And some of that comes in the small moments. You know, it doesn't come in the big, flashy, like, let me report out on this AI interviewer pilot that I'm doing. Like that's great. But it comes in the in the day-to-day interactions, in the hard no's in the hard conversations. That's when you build trust. And I think that is something we all need to be kind of continuing to invest in at the leadership level. Cause I think that also then reflects on the brand of the people team that you are that partner for the business. So those are some kind of top tape takeaways for me right now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. And you know, you also talked about capacity planning, which um probably is something that like we don't talk about enough in talent acquisition, like content. Um, there really is like a science behind it. And I do see a lot of companies get it wrong. Now getting it wrong though, it's not necessarily like due to always an understanding. Like it's also just that high hyper-growth growth stage companies, like things change so rapidly. But I think that that's part of like how to build a proper capacity plan is thinking about those things. But yeah, um, you did you did mention that as like one of your top takeaways. So I'd be curious to learn more about like top lessons learned when thinking about capacity planning.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think it's one of my top takeaways mainly because I spend so much time doing it. And I don't know, I almost want to like uh question the audience session here of your podcast, something like that, because I'd be curious to hear just kind of how um so many different leaders are approaching this. But I think for for us at Juniper Square, a lot of what we do and how we grow and how we hire
Capacity Planning With What If Models
SPEAKER_03is tied to business impact, like many, but also um client growth. And so with that, there isn't always a like kind of predictive um ability. And we can plan for some things, right? Like the headcount plan that we go into the year with, the backfill like kind of attrition assumptions that we're assuming for the year. Um, but outside of that, that a lot changes. And with that, I will say, with a combination of Ashby and some of some beautiful reporting that uh Kendra and our team does, we have been able to build, you know, something um just in a Google sheet that gives me a view into the year and allows me to um kind of manipulate. Like if X happened, what would this look like? Or if I got you know 40 roles in this space, you know, what would I, what would that do from a capacity perspective? It's not perfect. It doesn't always give you exactly what you need. Um, but for me, at least it gives me somewhat of an insight with data to make really informed decisions versus just responding to directly what's in front of me, as there can often be a panic when those kind of big spikes come. I want to make sure I make really informed decisions.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's so that's really smart. So I think like the key takeaway for really just tuning in from my perspective too is like you like you're running kind of predictive models. Like you're not just looking at okay, based on the hiring plan today, but you're running those what-if scenarios, which I'm assuming you're giving some thought to like, okay, where where would it most likely be? But that way it's like you're looking at, okay, how prepared are we currently to deal with XYZ fluctuations? And if we're not, okay, well, then it's like you can have that conversation with uh other members of the leadership team where it's like, okay, look, like if we're doing this, then you're already coming proactively, you're being proactive about knowing versus like reactively scrambling to try to figure out what to do, which um yeah, it's it's also just a really good look for for you and like for other TA leaders because you're like CEO is gonna be impressed.
SPEAKER_03I hope I and I'll say this. I I don't have it perfect, but what I can say, and I'm I'm sure I'm sure a lot of other leaders can really relate to this, is if you are really embedded in your business, you start hearing. So you start your your, you know, kind of exec leader says, I think we're gonna hire like a hundred people by the end of the year. And I'm like, oh, that's not in the headcount plan, you know, but they they you built this trust, you built this rapport. Like, I'm sure there's so many examples people can think of when that happens. And while that isn't in a headcount plan and it's not in a budget and it's not accounted for, I can tuck that information away. And I can't necessarily like go out and hire for my team today, but like I can plan for it. I'm like, if X happened, like what would I need to do? And it allows me to take this information that I'm getting from the business and hopefully, in some ways, maybe like 50% of the time, try to get ahead of some of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's really just uh that's great advice. We talked about like your like moving forward, like growth as a professional. And you said you brought up excellence like several times. Like it sounds like that's just sort of like your obsessive kind of thought when you think about your career uh trajectory and like what you're focused on, which is cool because it's not like you know, you didn't say title, you talked of like you're just like at the essence of the core of like what matters to you, which is probably why you keep getting promoted, like because you're you're not even focused on that, you're just focused on like having an incredibly high bar, but like just what any additional context there, like why do you feel like that's your obsessive thought? And and it seems like it's benefited you a lot, right? Yeah, from the outside end.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's a really interesting question, and I think the answer keeps evolving. Um, I mentioned motivation, we spend a lot of time at work, right? And and it is an important piece of my life, but it's not my whole life. But if I'm gonna be spending this much time doing something, I want it to mean something and I want it to um really kind of carry impact beyond maybe just like the years that I spend in an organization. And so for a lot of that for me, um kind of where I'm focusing now is wanting and wanting to be the best, is I really want to pay back the mentors and the leaders um that have invested me into kind of that that that next layer into my team. I have so benefited from people who um saw something in me, partnered with me, said, Do you want to try this? Do you want this opportunity? And blend that with my desire to say yes to as many things as I can. I think that's that's paid off for me. And so I want to help identify that and then provide those opportunities for people to say yes, to lean into those stretch opportunities and to take on more. So that's really what I'm hoping to grow in in this year and and move a little bit past the just kind of like move as fast as possible, fill as many roles as possible, and more into kind of how are we doing this um as a team in a way that you know kind of makes everyone better.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love it. And and to to zoom out a little bit, um, you know, again, like what you said is like career is part of who you are, but it's not like your identity, like it's part of it, I guess, right? But like we're in a people business, and like I, you know, like I want to learn more about like you, and I'm just curious, like at this point in your life, what would you say is some of like the top takeaways or advice you have? I mean, you you talked to me a little bit about experimentation, trying new things, like is that would you say like that's like your your big takeaway at this point in your life?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so yes, that is one. I think this idea of just um kind of saying yes to things, I have seen probably the most like fulfilling pieces of my life um personally when I said yes to the unexpected um a few years ago. I actually decided to up and move from uh five years ago, no, so not a few, five years ago. I moved from Chicago where I spent most of my life in the Midwest, and I decided to move to San Diego. Didn't know a soul out there, just said, if I was gonna do it at any time, let's just do it now. And I had a lot of like moments
Saying Yes To The Unexpected
SPEAKER_03of questioning like, should is this right? Should I have done this? Am I crazy? All my stuff's in a U-Haul, it's lost. I don't know where the U-Haul is, like all this stuff. But I am so appreciative for that moment in my life. And I think there's a lot of examples like that that I have, where that is where I've learned the most, grown the most, met the most new people, tried the most new things. Um, and I think that I I will take those moments and those memories of my life, and and that is what I'll remember 20, 50 years from now. Maybe not necessarily like the system I implemented in 2025. You know what I mean? So probably not. So it's like those are the things that have really said like impacted me. I'm just kind of saying yes to those things and learning with what comes along with that. And I think for someone again who is a self-proclaimed, like organized, efficient person, there's uncomfort in that too. There's a level of like, you know, kind of uh fear and anxiety, but it's always it's always paid off in the end.
SPEAKER_00I think so. I think curiosity over comfort, like you know, it's I I think striving for comfort is actually like a bad thing. Um it's it's something I've been actually thinking about a lot lately. And it's just sort of like in parallel to like what you're saying. I don't even think the comfort isn't a natural state, it's the exception, it's not the rule. So it's like to have that striving for that to be a goal is I think it's just not even like natural or aligned with like humanity. Like it's life is challenging, it's hard, and that's okay, that's normal. Um, and I think it's like, you know, we're so lucky, right, to be able to be work in tech and to have the stability and to live where we live and all of these things. And it's it's I think it's like because we're more comfortable, a lot of times people fall on this, in my opinion, a trap of like constantly seeking it, um, and and seeking that stability and and the certainty. And but like I feel like it's so much of what life has to offer to make the most out of life. It's
Building A Life That Challenges You
SPEAKER_00like we have to be willing to be uncomfortable. And in fact, arguably, to live our best life, we have to be uncomfortable. Like it's thinking about like successful people, like going to the gym every day. It's not always the most comfortable thing, or you know, the sometimes like it's hard to to to have a fulfilling life, to be a good uh kid, or you know, good good to your parents as they get older, or to to be a good parent, or to be good in your career. All these things are hard. Yeah, these are hard things, and and um I think it's like maybe embracing that, embracing discomfort, embracing the fear, the anxiety that comes with it, because that following that curiosity and and leaning into just an acceptance of like things are gonna be uncomfortable. Like if I want to have a good life, like things are gonna be uncomfortable. It's just natural, that's just the way life is. Like, I feel like you can get so much more out of life than just striving for to stay in your comfort zone and not say yes to new things, right?
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna bring back story, the book analogies that my brain constantly goes to, which is no one wants to read a book about someone who's just comfortable in their life the whole time. Like we literally seek stories of the people who have struggled or done something hard, or like most like a books start with like some big event happening and then they have to overcome it. Like those are the the stories that we're interested in. And so I don't want to just read stories about other people doing that. I would also like to go through my own life experiences that that round that out as well.
SPEAKER_00100%. Yeah, it's like lean into it. Let's like lean, lean into the just being out of a comfort zone. It's like that's where all of like I feel like the passion in life really can come from, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um, so I can't have good friends and good family, and it's a good recipe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's awesome. I love that. This has just been such an incredible conversation with you, and I feel like I've learned a lot, and it's actually helped like I because we I think we have similar worldviews in a lot of ways, but it's like helped crystallize my thinking, just hearing you articulate it um has been really cool. You're clearly a very bright person, and you just like you've made it so far, but you still have so far to go. Like you're gonna keep you've got it. But your advice on the TA front was also incredibly like helpful. So thank you very much for joining me on the show today. I know people are gonna love this episode.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. You've made a very comfortable space to talk, and I've learned a lot as we've chatted as well. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00Nice, yeah. This was awesome. And hey, for everybody tuning in, thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time.
SPEAKER_03Bye.
