EP 211: Where Intuition Meets Pattern Recognition in Hiring

Nyala Khan grew up on an orchard farm in Northern California before navigating diverse environments across the U.S., shaping both her independence and her ability to read people. Now leading People and Talent at Slang AI, she’s built her approach through scaling organizations and developing high-performing teams, grounded in pattern recognition and data-informed decision making. In this conversation, she explains why great hiring mirrors hospitality, how small signals often outperform resumes, and why the best recruiters treat intuition as structured insight, not guesswork.

Restaurant mentioned: Limusina

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Naila

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Hey everyone, welcome to the show. We have Naila Khan with us today. Naila is currently the head of people and talent over at Slang AI. Uh Naila, thanks for joining me today.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Yeah, happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah, of course. So, where are you from?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

What a loaded question to start off with. You know, every time people ask me that, I'm like, what do you mean? Because they'll be like, originally, where are you from? I'll give you all the answers. I'm born used in Chico, California. I spent some years in the East Coast back to California eventually. Is that what you were asking?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah, exactly. Uh, so you said initially, like where you were born, you grew up on a farm initially, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Oh, yes, yes. So I was uh yes, I was raised until five years old on an actual orchard farm. Uh, meaning we had orchard trees, and then we also did have all kinds of animals, peacocks, lambs, goat, fish. Nice dogs.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yeah, it was nice. It's very um when I tell people that they're shocked. So, oh, because I, you know, when they think farm girl, they don't necessarily see that in me, but it's very rooted in my uh desire to be around nature, and I think of myself as like a pretty hippie.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

That's pretty cool. I'll be honest. So when we first met, when we met up in New York, you definitely give me like New Yorker vibes. Like I definitely thought you grew up uh in and around the city somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Well, the California relatives call me New York Nyla now.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

It's just like yeah, I yeah, I see that. Apparently, um okay, so when you're five, you moved off the farm. Where'd you go?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Uh to the closest smaller town nearby. My dad was a you know state university police officer. So we ultimately he was doing both. He was working as a police officer, also tended the farm. You know, when it's picking and and harvesting season, it's it's more time and energy spent at the farm. And so we ultimately moved to Chico, and that's where I sort of began my like normal, you know, suburban American life in a small town. Um, it's kind of like a hippie town, but it's also a college town. It's called Chico. Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

That's nice. Where's Chico? Is that like southern, northern?

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Where people have such a like bad sense of how big California is. So when I'm like, oh, is that by Oregon? But it's actually three hours north of San Francisco, and I would say another four hours to get to the edge of Oregon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Wow, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

In the middle of the valley.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Well, I have not been. I've not been there.

unknown 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Um, so it's it is nice, cool. Yeah, I would love to go. I mean, I I've honestly like in California, I've really I guess I've only been to like big cities, you know. I've never really been outside of the cities.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

So well, uh there's Mount Shasta, which is like this beautiful uh mountain. There's also Mount Lassen, which is volcanic, and then if you keep going north, you hit the amazing redwood forest. So I think everyone should.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Okay, so how far away were you from Redwood Forest?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

I think it's like a three and a half hour drive.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Three and a half hours. Nice, nice to see. Yeah, California is huge. I think people probably do forget.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

I think tip to tip, it's like a I want to say 12 to 13 hour drive.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

That is wild. Yeah, I guess I never really thought about it. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Look at the map, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Right, yeah. I mean, it makes sense. Like, I know it seems like Cobb is says Atlanta.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

I mean, uh yeah, that is Atlanta, Virginia, like all of those states kind of equine to the same length as that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Yeah, good point, good point. Well, so what like what what were you into growing up? What were you like as a kid?

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Oh, I was such a nature person. Like I used to talk to the roses that were in our garden. And that was how I played a lot outside. We lived across the street from a a really big state park as well. So I'd always be in the dirt, um, with with the trees, with the rocks on the playground. You know, we I would say had a really beautiful, beautiful, privileged um childhood simply because of where we lived and and the access that we had to nature and um yeah, go swimming the creek and all that kind of like on our own. There was so safe we didn't ever really need supervision, and yeah, it just swimming in the creek.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

That actually um I just got back from uh Smoky Mountain National Park in Tennessee.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Okay, I haven't been.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Well, it was really cool. About it.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

I well, actually, like swimming in rivers, actually, like and there was like these water holes where you're I mean you're just back in the mountains, and so I just looked up like the best water holes, and it was it was really cool because you could just jump off rocks into the water. Yeah. Like there was some safe areas to do it and some not so safe areas that I avoided doing it, but still a lot of people do, I guess. Uh, but yeah, it was just like really beautiful. It's so nice to be out in nature. I guess, like, particularly for me, the longer I'm in the tech industry, the more I feel like I need to get out. Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Yeah. And what city do you live in?

SPEAKER_01 5:41

I'm in uh Northern Virginia now.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

So you're closer to nature.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, there's actually a lot of stuff here. I mean, we have like Shannon Shenandoah Mountains not too far away in Virginia, and then also sometimes I'll go out to West Virginia, which I think is actually sort of slept on. People don't always know just how incredibly beautiful it is out there because there's all the mountains and foothills and trees, and it's just really beautiful to go out there. Um, but there's yeah, there's lots of good trails, lots of good nature.

Nature As Balance For Tech

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Um my ultimate life aspiration is to own some land, yeah, grow my own food and vegetables, have some chickens, have some animals, and actually make it cute and chic, of course. And then have um little little getaway style cabins, uh, and then ideally have some kind of programming that is introspective and kind of learning and reflection on yourself and if people want to participate in that. And so I kind of want to have like a little that that's my like true ultimate life goal. I just gotta figure out what plot of land where, right, this question mark is like where do I actually want to do this? Do I do anyone do it in America? Do I want to in a different country? But that would be ultimate goal for me because it would it would allow me to kind of utilize all of my people coaching and executive coaching experiences, uh, the communication trainings that we all do as people leaders, you know, and kind of merge all of that into getting to know yourself at a deeper level uh in a way that doesn't feel like oh, you're going to some you know heavily focused retreat, but just to add that in as a component of the experience that people have in whatever beautiful nature setup that we we, I don't know who we is me, one day set up. Maybe I'll have a we, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah, yeah. And um, well, you and your daughter, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Well, yeah, how old's your how old's your daughter? She's like gonna be 12.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Oh, really? Oh, nice, nice. Yeah, do you think okay, so question do you think you could be out in nature full time or do you need balance?

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Um, one, there's I would never do it by myself, even with my daughter. I feel like I would need a partner in life to do something like that with because of the seclusion and my need for like having some kind of energy. And to me, if I did do something like that, I would for sure be traveling a lot, you know, and and I would absolutely have to continue coming back to New York to feed my food soul. But other than that, um, I don't know, I think the grass is always greener on the other side.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

So even oh, for sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

I think something we don't have today, one day we like get tired of it and want the other thing again. There's got to be some balance. I haven't figured it out yet.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Yeah, no, I don't I think we're all trying to. I I have not totally figured it out, but uh I do think balance is important. Like I I like being in nature, but I also like being like I like traveling to New York and San Francisco and a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

See, when I think about and I spend a week and a half in Chico, I I genuinely feel like I'm missing out on what's going on in the world. Because it tends to give you the sensation of like, you know, like what's happening right when it's happening. Um, I don't know if it's the way that I'm interacting because I'm at work and you're just more in tune, or yeah, yeah, I get I get FOMO when I live in New York for sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

And you I think earlier you were telling me you you do a fair amount of traveling with your daughter, right?

Motherhood And Travel Traditions

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Like you guys, like in the summers or where do you guys typically go?

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Uh I've gone to, you know, I definitely go to California. My parents have a really nice uh venue property that's kind of like a little tropical oasis in northern Chico. You just would never expect it to be there. And they have a big property, they have multiple, you know, villas on the property. So the kids get to just do their thing. She has a cousin her age, so she loves going there, but she loves um, I think my mom does a really good job of you know passing down cultural, religious things that she learns a lot. She's my mom teaches her how to sew and loves to do arts and crafts with her. She's an art artsy child, so she she really enjoys that. But then I also try to take her, you know, on trips. And so last summer we went to Mexico City, Cancun, Tulum. Uh, and then I've taken her to Tahiti, Jamaica. I haven't taken her to Europe with me yet, but that's definitely something we want to do.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah. Next, nice. Maybe this summer, we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Maybe, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Nice. Cool. That's awesome. So, like high school college, you were still in Chico, right?

Moving To New Jersey And Racism

SPEAKER_00 10:05

No, so we actually left Northern California for a few years while I was in sixth grade. So in sixth grade, I went from Northern California to New Jersey, South Jersey. Um, and I had this sort of profound like identity realization when we went from Chico to so you would think, you know, I grew up in a predominantly white town. Uh, my my elementary school, I was from my memory, I was the only brown girl. There was like one black girl, I remember her name is Felicia, and a couple Hispanic people, but predominantly Caucasian. And I knew I was different because I was Muslim, I wasn't allowed to like do certain things. My mom didn't let me sleep over other people's houses. But other than that, I never really felt it, you know, until and I didn't know I didn't feel it until I moved to New Jersey. South Jersey was a whole different experience. There was way more diversity, but um, there was also so much more racism. And ironically, when I was at a place where there was diversity, I felt like my color and my race and my religion more than I ever did when I was in my little, you know, small, we'll call it, you know, Caucasian white town. And so I just think that um Yeah, it's sort of counterintuitive. Yeah, most people would assume that you would be more comfortable around diversity, but unfortunately, because of the way that the mentality of that area was, it was almost like yeah, it was almost villainized to be of color uh in that area. And so then there was like these groups and categories created, and you just basically stayed within people, stayed within their cultural groups, and it wasn't until high school I feel like people started to like merge a little bit more, and then of course I got fortunate enough to go back to California, and even that translation was jarring because high school in southern Jersey felt like juvenile hall, and then it was such a translation when I went to Chico again for high school, I finished my senior year there. It was like going into a Hollywood movie. I mean, my high school was called Pleasant Valley High School, yeah, totally different culture. Yeah, the seniors were throwing like water balloons at the freshman as they're walking to get lunch because they didn't have cars. Nice was that, but yeah, very um unique cultural translations between the two places.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

And you um like culturally grew up in a pretty religious environment and household, right?

Islam Versus Cultural Expectations

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yeah, my parents, I mean, we're all Muslim. My parents were very active in like the local Islamic center. I mean, I grew up like you know, when when I moved back, I would say um I used to help my mom cook at the mosque every day for Ramadan. My dad was like president, I think he is right now too, for many years of the mosque. And so um, I love that the community that and the exposure that I had to different cultures, just going to the mosque was kind of crazy. Like I had eaten Malaysian food and Saudi food when I was five years old, six years old, and I remember specific things that like most people don't have access to um in Chico or other places where there might be some diversity, but if you don't, if you're not in the community, you don't you don't get it. Um, but yeah, it was it was really it was really good foundationally. Um, there were some cultural things that I think were hard um because you know sometimes people convolute religion and culture. And you know, our my family's very my parents, my mom was really good at that. And so, you know, uh they spent a meaningful amount of my early years, my mom did, uh, trying to get me to marry this guy that she wanted me to marry. I mean, they like forced me to even go to court and get a legal marriage just for the sake of potentially having like an actual wedding with him. Um, it was really tough. That part of it was tough. And um, it's a cultural thing that my mom employ like impeded on me. It had nothing to do with religion. I think people think arranged marriage is religious. It's actually not in Islam, you're allowed to choose your person in in the halal way, which means like you have to maintain certain boundaries as you're like getting to know them. Uh, but yeah, so that was there's parts of it that were beautiful, and I think the religious pieces, but I think the cultural stuff I struggled with. And I'm for sure the one person in the family that there's like a thousand and one memes about, you know, it's like the single mom who only thinks about the gym that is living alone, you know, that is me now. Um, or like every family has a daughter that X, Y, and Z. Like, that's me. I'm the person that took a very different path, um, primarily because I think at an early age, I realized I have to figure this shit out on my own. I don't have the support that I want, or maybe these other things matter more to my parents or my mom than um my actual happiness or my actual success path. So I do think that influenced a lot of who I am today.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

For sure. And I actually I have a question just about like the like arranged marriage setup, because you mentioned like this is a really I think interesting call out is the kind of segmenting the idea of like religion from culture, uh, particularly when it uh with this topic. And I'm just wondering, like, I guess a follow-up question, and I I think I know which uh the direction you're gonna answer, but like so it it's not the interpretation of Islam, it's it's like just different values and culture, and it has it doesn't have to do with the interpretation of religion. It's like a totally separate thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Yeah, uh, you know, a lot of people don't know this, but Islam is like it's like a very specific set of rules. So the concept of Sharia law and all that, it's it's like this is how you do divorce, this is how you do marriage, this is how you do parenting, this is how you treat your parents, this is how you're supposed to interact with religion. It's like very explicit. Um, and the the getting married piece, there's actually like a quote in the Quran that, and I don't want to misquote the Quran, so I'm not gonna quote it quote it, but it represents a statement that says people are built and exist in different tribes in an order to get to know one another, right? Like that's explicitly said in in the Quran, too. So the there's no requirement of must marry this culture. It's it's it's or you must be arranged. It's like you can court someone, you can get to know somebody, but you have to do it within these boundaries of you know, X, Y, and Z. Um, but this is an extreme version, this arranged marriage thing. And it wasn't even arranged, it's arranged. It was an my experience was like, we want you have to do this, and I just didn't want it. And the choice is very real in Islam, like you have choice, whether it's a man or woman, you both have a choice, and it should never be done outside of choice. So fundamentally, like that's where the this disconnect was at a basic, basic level. It was un-Islamic to force somebody to marry somebody else. That becomes like a parent decision influenced by culture and normalized by culture.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Well, thanks for sharing that. Um and this was a pretty like formative experience, of course, like and you were like 18 years old, right?

Forced Marriage Pressure And Freedom

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Uh, it started when I was 16, the pressure, the inf like the suggestion. It started out as like us, hey, do you want to meet? And I was like, okay. I interacted with hi, hello, like that, you know, and then from there it was like, okay, now you guys are gonna get engaged. And I was like, what? You know, I just kind of got thrown into it. And I very much I actually did genuinely put effort and think, like, okay, let me just try, let me just be open-minded, you know, because he grew up in a different country. And for me, that was like a hard no from the get, you know, just culturally, you just don't have similarities. And I'm even more like distant from the culture than maybe other people might be. And so for me, it was a even bigger gap. Uh, ultimately, it didn't, I couldn't get past like a very superficial conversation with him. There's no connection for me. And so I was like, no, I don't want to do this. And in her mind, it was like, well, this already happened, and you know, and then it became this like fight. I ultimately actually like ran away from home at one point. Like, I left him a note, I did all that just to find my space and freedom because I felt like they actually had no interest in my happiness rather than this, it was just wanting to achieve this one thing with this one particular person, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Yeah, you know it's it's really I mean, it's super it's really interesting. So I appreciate you sharing it because it's like I I feel like I'm learning a lot from you. I um I'm just curious, like at this point in your life, when you look back on that, yeah, what would you say are like the takeaways there? What have you what did you learn?

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Maybe it's like about yourself, or maybe it's just about like uh kind of principles or values or um I think one of the the deepest learnings from an experience like that is you are accountable for your own outcomes and you have full control of whatever it is that happens in your life. And I had to fight and had to like push and take a lot of risk to gain that control, but I had to remind myself that I'm accountable for my own outcomes, and then it helped me get to like a level of extreme, according to my parents, to then deliver on my outcome. And at the time it felt extreme for me. Now I look back, I'm like, of course, uh anybody would feel very frustrated and upset and you know, disregarded by their parent if this is all they wanted without looking at any other aspect of the picture. And so I think the accountability piece is something that really stuck with me. Um, whether it was me delivering accountabilities to somebody else, or whether it was expecting accountability from a role or a position, and the whole like excuse-making thing um doesn't really land well with me in general. If somebody gives me mediocre excuses, I will often ask them enough questions to where they realize, oh, actually, this is on me to get to what I need to get to.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Yeah. Yeah, I could see that.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

And um really deep into the manager coaching. Like I often, you know, managers sometimes are like, oh, somebody came to me with this. And uh, you know, I I tell them about open questions and and get them to ask enough to where then yeah, the person realizes, okay, yeah, I can think I can solve this as a manager, and they can help me get there on their own because it's their accountability that they're ultimately trying to drive.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah, yeah. I love that. And I so just to fast forward a little bit, changing the subject, but I'm like just super curious. So I just want to get your thoughts. You said you ended up on Good Morning America, right?

unknown 20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

In your early 20s. Can you please tell that story? So, how did how did you end up on that show? Like, what were you? I think this was before you were recruiting and town acquisition, right?

Accountability Lessons And Manager Coaching

SPEAKER_00 20:43

So I I had to go to college in California in Chico because now living in Chico, my parents were kind of uh, I would say strict enough to say you're not gonna go be a college student somewhere else on your own until you're you can't leave the house without being married, type of thing. And so we have this wonderful university at home, so you have to just go here. Meanwhile, it has this crazy reputation for being a party school, and I had to kind of reconcile with that later in life. But went to Chico State. Um, I worked at a little boutique there, and I ultimately wanted to be a documentary filmmaker, and I had taken some photography classes, and so as I was working at this boutique, I took some cool photos of some shoes, right? And I looked, gave them to the owner, and she was like, Hey, Nylan, this is 2005. I want to start an online store. Would you like to help me do that? And she saw me as a photographer, which looking back, like we both laugh at it. I was absolutely not a real photographer, but I had some training on a TSLR, you know. So um, not only was I the photographer, I was also the makeup artist. I was also the scout and the finding the models and then creating the campaign and you know, working with the owner to execute on the campaign shoots for the website. She's got like a web designer building a website because it was so not simple as it is now. Um, and so formulated this idea into execution and then figuring out ad words. I remember having a whole argument with her being like, no, she thought our demographic was, you know, I think like 14 to 18. I was like, no, it's not. Those people don't spend money online, you know. And so we had this whole thing, and I was like, your ICP is a 22 to 28 year old. And like we ultimately, because we were trying to set our ads, ultimately, Lulu's popped off. It became the only online boutique to go public that I can think of. Um, their stock's not doing great, but they made it. Um, and while we were in that journey, I was basically overseeing creative operations, like the photography room, making Sure, every product shop made it to design team and et cetera, et cetera. And you know, she trusted me because I was her employee number one. And that was also my first foray into startup land without realizing I was into startups. And because I worked, my first real job was working in that format. It became sort of like my fuel and addiction. So I now look back, I'm like, that that's why I did well at an early stage startup when I first joined venture back company. I was 15 people at Quartet Health. But let's go back to Good Morning America. So she had this opportunity to showcase, like, you know, 20 looks under$20. And uh she was like, Would could you please go do this? And I was like, uh I was like the the back the the burden of like the whole company was on my back. And I had never done you know live TV or anything like that. I looked back at the outfit I chose and I'm like, oh my god, what was I doing? My haircut was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

But yeah, hey, do you have uh is there like a link to a video? Can you send it to me?

Good Morning America Origin Story

SPEAKER_00 23:49

The links don't work anymore. They're it was on it was on ABC like platform for a while, but they don't work anymore. I have some screenshots that I'll send you out. Yeah, send me one, but um yeah, so I had to do basically like, hey, she's wearing such and such, and you know, shunt and like talk it through. And I remember I used the term super cute way too much. But regardless, I got through it, you know, and so I had they sent me out by myself. Uh at the end, I literally started getting blisters all my lips like swole, like they just turn into a like a huge blister. I don't I don't know. I was so confused. I was like, what is happening? It happened right after the show. My body's stress levels were translating, and and I basically had like an infection or something. I don't know, but oh god, yeah, pretty tense. I they they were happy with it, and ultimately, you know, the segment went well. I didn't really trip up.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Hey, and then the company went public, so basically, all because of that, right? Although I couldn't remember. So you're welcome, world, right? You made that happen.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Credit to all the people who spent hours, endless years making that company successful.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah, but also, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yeah, Pauline Winter, she's she's a badass. She actually just started another um company that's uh a little cute, um, animal clothing.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yeah, sounds adorable.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Really? Okay, cool. Nice, nice, that's cool. And uh and so then you know, you kind of fast forward at at this point, right? Because you've at this point you've held uh different VP head of level positions. Currently at slang, I think your team just landed a pretty big funding round, if I'm not mistaken, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah, you know, in this tough environment, we were able to close the B, so that's really exciting. Um staying sort of ahead of the curve in terms of the market segment that we're in. Um we focus specifically on restaurants with a voice product, and uh our goal is to grab the largest bit of that share. And so we're we're heading that.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

That's awesome. Yeah, so it's um voice AI for restaurants, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Yeah, we're we're building a super host, is how we like to frame it. And ultimately, you know, taking the concept of a host that has to do 45 jobs into segmenting them to the most important one, which is paying attention to the people that are in the restaurant and alleviating them from all of the other administrative burden that actually takes them away from the focus and attention to the people.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

The in-person relationship aspect.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yeah, the example I always like to give people is like you know, you you're really excited for this dinner date, and well, we'll just use an example of two like a couple, okay? And you're you're really excited about the food, you've heard such great things about it. You walk in, and then the music song, the vibes are good, you're ready to drink and eat, and then you see the hostess going like this.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Right. Yeah, I guess as a first experience, it's like not especially without like a nice smile.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Like if they do it like you know, it just immediately feels like uh you kind of like take a step out of your little fantasy land, and then you're kind of like, oh, how long do I have to wait? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

You're just kind of standing there awkwardly.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah, and so you know, it's hospitality itself is is really interesting working in hospitality because we talk a lot about it, and I actually believe a lot of the work that people people do is and should be centered around hospitality.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

But they're thinking of a candidate experience, right? You have to treat them as though they're a guest in your home. Um, and that's something I've always thought about and kind of explained when I give you know interviewers instructions on how to receive their candidates and treat them, especially when when you were in person, uh you offer them water, ask them if they do the bathroom, like all these little things that a lot of people don't have to do anymore because it's virtual. But a lot of the interview experience and Canada experience is rooted in good hospitality. If you want to achieve what ultimate goal is like you want them to want the job, even if you don't want to give them the job, you know, right. Yeah, so I don't know. I got trailed off a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Oh, no, that's yeah, it's it's really it's uh it's it's interesting, and also you're like super plugged into all the really good restaurants in New York. You gave me some recommendations. You told me about Limousina, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Did you eat there?

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Which is it's such an amazing restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Oh, I loved it there.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

So have you actually been there?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah, of course. Yeah, I've been there.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Oh my god, that place is great.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

What did you get? What did I really want to know what you got?

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Uh well I got we got I got the lobster.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Um, and there was something else that I get. I have to pull it to me.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Did you get the the steak with the um it was like I think the the rib, the short rib?

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Yes, I got that. Yes, yes. That was did you do a dessert? What's that?

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Did you do dessert?

Building Voice AI For Restaurants

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Uh yeah, there was like some kind of like corn dessert dessert thing that little corn torque, yeah. I don't remember what it was called, but it was amazing, and I never had anything like it before.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Exactly. Yeah, did you have the spicy Caesar?

SPEAKER_01 28:57

The spicy Caesar, what's that?

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Spicy Caesar salad.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Oh no, I didn't have that.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Oh, that is absolutely the best salad I've ever had.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Really, yeah. Okay, well, I'll have to get it next time. It's that's just such a good restaurant. It's like by it's one of my favorite restaurants, it might be my favorite right now.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Yeah, for sure. And like the vibe is also really cool.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Yeah, the design in there is insane. Like, you feel like you're in you know, some new age version of Scarface.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Yeah, there you go. The service is awesome. Yeah, that was uh a really cool spot. Um, so that's gonna become like my go-to. I think taking customers well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Also, I can diversify that list for you.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

There's yeah, well, you actually give me a few, you give me a handful, but I haven't I haven't checked them all out. But yeah, I'm definitely gonna I'm gonna ask you now that you've given me like some really good recommendations, I'm like, I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep asking. Yeah, for sure. Um well hey look when it comes to talent acquisition, like really dialing into TA at this point in your career as a head of people in talent, could you share maybe like the most important takeaways for other folks, other leaders tuning in? Like, what do you what do you feel is is most important to be successful as a talent acquisition leader?

Hospitality As A Hiring Standard

SPEAKER_00 30:07

I'm gonna give the most blanket answer first, which is everybody should absolutely be trialing and testing and learning about every possible way to optimize the work that we do. While still maintaining what I think is going back to the hospitality statement and really leaving like the human understanding and component into the interview and recruiting process, you cannot totally take it over. You have to marry and merge the two, in my perspective. Um, so I think not losing that as a principle of how you're gonna run and build your teams is important. One of the other things that I think people don't put enough weight and value in is that recruiter gut. It's not just a feeling. We think it's just a feeling we have, but it's actually years and years of interviewing, watching the person get hired, seeing how they perform, and like seeing their evolutions, whether they go up on the track, into another team, um, you know, and watching that when you join early stage and then stretching and pivoting and Tetrising people into different roles, that experience and that knowledge should be considered like a database inside your head that you leverage to then make better decisions or even decisions that you know how to see around the corner with um when you're building and scaling companies, especially early stage. And I don't want, I always feel like it's easy to like have a conversation that goes in one ear, out the other. You take your notes and you send it off and then you ship that information out of your brain. But I I would like and I would encourage people to try to retain uh some learnings from every conversation you have because it will suit you and serve you as a leader in the future. And I mean, whether it's just leaving a positive impression on that person, I mean, literally, I got my job at Slang because the can't the CTO was a former candidate of mine from 10 years ago. I had to try to hire him as a data scientist, and he remembered me and reached out to me when they were looking for their first set of people.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

So that's awesome. And so obviously, you made a very good impression. Did he say what he remembered about you? Like, because that's a long time to remember somebody. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 32:25

To be fair, I reached out to him again for a different company.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Um, so we did have another touch point in between, but but we didn't actually, you know, put him in the interview process. He had he had just started slang at the time. Um I think he thought that I was very genuine and real and was able to connect with me as a human. And I think that you know, um all the best recruiters, their candidates will say that about them. Uh, I felt like that person was just authentic and real, and I felt like I could connect with them. And yeah, that's very, I mean, it's probably an obvious and a given to most people in in this space, but it actually drives meaningful change in the candidates' trust in you and and decision to ultimately like give you their life path, right? Because you're taking their trust, which translates into their future success.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

So yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

So are that's that's my old lady learning lesson share.

Talent Acquisition Principles And AI

SPEAKER_01 33:26

The whole trusting your gut thing, and I know you said it's like not just gut or intuition because it's kind of built on it's almost like a maybe a practical wisdom, right? Like of just life experience and having seen the show before type of thing. Yeah. Um I definitely rely a lot more heavily on I don't know if it's that or it's also just like getting a I feel like it's I've gotten better at just really understanding behaviorally how people operate after interviewing them. It's like, of course, some of it's asking the questions that I ask, but it's also just the little nuance of like knowing the the right follow-up question that isn't scripted. It's also just kind of pulse checking on like tone and how they respond and like their word choice and just like behaviorally, how they're kind of like showing up and like those kind of like all those little micro uh factors, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Better have you gotten at recognizing yellow flags at the finish line?

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Oh yeah, no, I I like I it's like every time I take a risk because I'm like, I don't know, there's this one thing like it never like works out. Like I've just learned to just like be really strict with who I think is like a behavioral fit, and you can be a little more flexible with skill set. Uh, I still think experience matters for a lot of rules, obviously, not not all, but like yeah, I mean behaviorally, I I I feel and cognitively too, just like their how they think and their ability to process and learn. And those are types of things where I don't really feel like I need a behavioral or cognitive test to get a sense for how people approach problem solving and how proactive they're gonna be, or how much of a driver they're gonna be, or whatever other you know else we're looking for in a startup. It's definitely something where like I think having that trust, and you know, trusting your gut or your intuition or the practical wisdom or experience that you developed over the years is like you just can't uh you can't replace it.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

It's just not well, also people are always speaking to you.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

Right.

Why Recruiter Gut Is Data

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Have to be listening, and it doesn't mean verbally, it could be like how they whether they wrote a follow-up, how quickly they replied, how like neat their communication was like all of those things are signals of communication to you. And I think a lot of times we're in the recruiting space, especially with high volume, you're just kind of like forgetting to look at all of those details. Um, but but when you've calibrated enough times, you start to realize that these actually have reflective implications. Like in that very moment, it might not feel like a big deal or something so serious, but um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Yeah, oh yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

It's a database sensation.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think like trusting data and like you know, doing the scorecards and yeah, all it's like it's important. I'm not saying like don't do those things, and I don't think you are either. It's just but also if something you know, you also just need to you get that kind of feeling or you get that that was this like okay, that one thing where you you mentioned it's like a yellow flag that maybe we wouldn't have picked up five, ten years ago, but we do now. Yeah. Like you have to be like, I think kind of critical of those things, and you have to be trusting of those things. Yeah, I mean, I just I every time I've overlooked stuff like that, it's it's just just doesn't what's a yellow flag that you ignored that came in. Well, that's a really good question. Um I'm really thinking about this. Give me a second.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

No problem. Um I think I want to.

Yellow Flags And Candidate Questions

SPEAKER_01 36:47

I I think I don't know if everyone might not agree with this, but I think the the folks that I've seen be most successful, because I work with a ton of startups and growth stage companies, and then I have two growth stage and a startup myself, uh, two companies. And I think just people that just in how they communicate and and how they answer questions and how they interact with me aren't like insanely incredibly like proactive and assert like their questions and follow-ups, uh not aggressively per se, but like they're really on it and they're they're very like intellectually curious and proactive in how they're they're thinking about every engagement that they have, like every conversation. I think people that are just like more passive, that really haven't answered the you know, really asked the best questions or seem to engage in the conversation or seem to kind of wait too much and let me take too much of the lead versus being having an active back and forth. Those folks have never worked out for me. It's um you know when I interview a big emphasis I put, and this is a final round, but I I honestly I run screens very similarly when I when I do that as well. Um I put a lot of value on the types of questions that they ask me, and the and the just the flow of the conversation and our ability to problem solve together, and like how aware are they about their own impact, what their own impact's gonna be in the business, and how it translates to the outcomes the company wants to produce. So a lot of it's like more conversational and communication based, and just like how curious, how good the questions are, how engaged they are, how much they're like leading to seek like the own insight that they need. Just are they like an active partner in the conversation, or are they just passively following along? Like people that don't ask you, like it just doesn't make any sense to me. Like, so you're just gonna accept a job. Like you talk about how big of a deal it is to have someone's career in your hands. It's like, well, like for people, and I'm not I know there's a lot of people like this, and I'm not trying to I guess be harsh, but in a sense, like I think the reality is like I find it really weird and concerning if somebody doesn't have good questions about a place they're gonna go work and put their financial future in that company's hands. Uh, I think that's kind of wild to me.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Yeah, it almost gives um it's transactional for them versus like long-term company.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Well, they're also it's just like they're not taking any active role in like being intentional. I mean, and and look, I know there's a to some extent like a privilege that we have in like tech to to be able to not, you know, not everybody may be in a position where they can kind of handpick a company. And that's that's not what I'm referring to. What I'm referring to is you know, the salesperson making 150k base or whatever, you know, it's well could be just what more do you want to learn?

SPEAKER_00 39:27

It doesn't need to be like a first interview, right? It can just truly be more about X, Y, and Z so that they show a level of interest versus another qualifying question, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah, I think that they're like the most interesting people, they're asking a lot of questions, they immediately kind of jump into problem solving mode. They immediately try to understand their point of impact, they're already thinking about how they're going to succeed and add value, and they're asking questions and engaging in a conversation from that perspective. Um, that's probably it. And so, yeah, I guess like when people are too passive, they're not engaging in the conversation, they're not asking good questions. Even if they have a great skill set and they answer every question, it's like very buttoned up. Yeah, oh yeah, I've worked with these types of companies before, I have this type of skill set. Um that's that's huge for me.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Yeah, yeah. I think that that would probably be it. The conversational style, I don't I mean, I don't even know if you're supposed to say that, but like, you know, for real, it's just like how we engage in a conversation makes such a like that's a tell for me, that's a big factor in like whether or not it how they engage in the conversation is gonna be like how successful they can be at a startup.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Yeah, I usually will segment the communication based on a role.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Like, I think yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

That too, but give a little forgiveness on certain roles versus higher expectation for others.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

I think that that's yeah, maybe like more GTM, uh, even talent.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Their job is to sell, so right.

Growing Careers In The AI Era

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Like, how are you like you better be like yeah, they need to be the most impressive, they need to be like fast, like quick on their feet, engaging, like all that kind of stuff. Um well, cool, yeah, that's awesome. And I now I wanted to talk to you a little bit too about like how you want to continue develop like professionally, right? Like, we'll talk holistically as a person in a minute, but like when you look at your career, what does the next best version of your professional self look like? Like, what do you how do you want to continue to grow over the next few years?

Becoming A Commerce-Minded People Leader

SPEAKER_00 41:21

I think we're sort of all at the same level playing field of growth right now, which the whole industry standard, best practice, X years of experience, all these phrases are like go outside because today we're living in a world of so much new innovation and process and technology that none of the shit you learned or knew from before is relevant anymore. Um, and not to say that years of experience and context building is not important, but a lot of what we do now is handled and can be handled and more effective, if not, um, through leveraging AI tools, whether it's a strategy thing, whether it's a workflow thing, et cetera. So I of course want to and have been one, I'm fortunate enough to be an AI native company, and our CEO is like just AI Saban, and he is constantly teaching and bringing things to us. I'm also, you know, like everybody else on all the you know newsletters and blogs trying to learn the thing. We learn the thing, and then it's like a new version of it pops up next week. So my my goal is to apply um and understand and execute AI knowledge across all the different tools and platforms and ways to do it on a personal but also business level, so that I can remove some of my personal admin and be more available for work, right? It's just it can actually optimize this across the board. So that's baseline should be everybody's answer, but of course it's mine. Outside of that, um when I think about what I want to do moving forward, I I, you know, every time I'm in an interview float for a new opportunity, this question always comes up. And I'm not the person to chase a title or um like a scope or anything that suits ego or status. For me, it's much more oriented on alignment with leadership and the impact that I can drive. So uh ensuring that whoever I'm working with uh has alignment with me on what the purpose and principles of people ops and talent acquisition are for a company. Um, and then being able to uh sort of execute enough to where I'm driving impact. So if I'm at a place where I don't feel like I'm driving and delivering impact, I don't feel validated. And that's sort of what I look for, and that is my definition of success uh in my future career path. I I'd never really find as much value in anything else outside of is there validation in the work that I'm doing? And and the work that I'm doing should be driving impact. And impact for me is described in a million different ways, but ultimately, uh, as a you know, I learned earlier in my career, but I know we didn't talk about my journey, but I used to be a people cheerleader. So when I was at Quartet Health, that was my first venture-backed recruiting role. I kind of looked back, I'm like, why'd you guys even hire me? I had no experience. I got paired with the best CTO who came from Amazon. He basically taught me all of the Amazon recruiting principles and structure. I applied that, I learned everything I possibly could, learned a bunch of people ops things, you know, spun my head with TriNet. But then ultimately, you know, figured it out and became really good at it. So I was the people trailer. I was like, the people are my purpose and I am for the people, you know. And then I and then I ended up at a uh what I thought was a startup, it was ultimately a private equity backed fund that uh Has a bunch of startups within the fund. And so I had joined Baby and Co. I'm actually a volunteer of doula, uh, driven by my birth experience, became a volunteer of doula. This company was a birthing center, and they needed out of people to build culture, to establish recruiting, et cetera. So I was like, ah, you know, it was like felt like a miracle. Um, joined, it was a great opportunity. Unfortunately, they decided to downsize the birthing centers and basically eradicate the business. And so the fund manager, uh, his name is Wes Edens. He had heard that I was leaving, and this woman named Sarah Waters like, don't let her leave, you know, she's amazing. Because I had done some things within that co-working space that I think uh, you know, they appreciated and and and understood as like a culture driver, value creator in terms of community. And so he, you know, he's like, Hey, I want you to come to my liquid natural gas company. I was like, I heard her in this because we were all working in the same co-working space, but like all owned by the same people. So, like a we work, but all one company. And um New Fortress Energy was there, and he was like, Yeah, come on over, you know, and I had to had to level set up and I was like, Wes, this is what I can offer you. I heard that you guys were interviewing the CHRO of Hess. Okay, I am not that person, I don't know what she does, I don't know what those skills are. Like, here's what I can do. And you know, he was like, All right, that's fine, let's do that for the next six months and we'll see how it goes. And so I actually said no to these two guys that I had signed an offer with for uh a different company. Do you know Bettery?

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Yeah, I I do. I'm trying to remember because they got acquired, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Right and Adam, yeah, they got acquired by um a deco.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

And then yeah, I remember I remember them, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Anyway, so I had signed an offer with them and part with them a few days later, and West basically retained me. Um, weird story. I was walking to my first day at New Fortress Energy, it was the same office, but I saw them on the street, Brett and Adam, and I was like, oh my god, it's awkward, so weird and random. Um I have nothing but love for those two, and I think they respect and appreciated the decision I made because of the way that it all translated. But anyway, now I'm working for a private equity company and a liquid natural gas organization. Um, I will say that is when I understood and balanced between knowing how to be a business operator in the lens of a people person and being a people advocate. And so I've sort of went from like cheerleader to right down the middle of the road, you know, and kind of calibrated. I would say becoming a commerce-minded people leader. And I think that that experience was really critical in creating what now allows me to be a strategic business partner to the organization.

Final Reflections And Farewell

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Oh, that's awesome. That's really cool. And um, you know, look, I just wanted to say uh this has been a really awesome conversation, and it's been really great learning more about you and your background and just from your different life experiences, uh, professionally, personally, all around. So, Naila, I just wanted to say thank you for joining me on the show today.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Yeah, no, this was fun. I don't know how to translate all the things I've shared, but hopefully they resonate with some folks.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Oh, yeah, for sure. No, there's lots of lots of good stuff here. So thank you. And for everybody tuning in, thanks so much. We'll talk to you next time.