Arizona Civics Podcast

Reviving Your Teaching Passion with Nancie Lindblom

• The Center for American Civics • Season 4 • Episode 9

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Nancie Lindblom shares how meaningful professional development can transform teachers from classroom managers to content experts to civic education leaders.

• PD needs evolve from classroom management focus in early years to content expertise in later years
• Immersive experiences like visiting historical sites with expert historians create deeper understanding
• The James Madison Fellowship provides fully-funded master's degrees in American history and government
• Content-focused PD helps teachers develop curriculum that spreads beyond their own classroom
• Professional networks formed through PD programs provide ongoing support and opportunities
• Teaching "hard history" with civil dialogue is especially needed in today's polarized environment
• ASU's Center for American Civics offers local opportunities for teacher and student development
• Students are capable of sophisticated historical analysis and civic engagement when properly guided
• Programs like We the People, Project Citizen, and Youth and Government develop students' civic capabilities

Explore professional development opportunities through the James Madison Fellowship, ASU's School of Civic and Economic Thought and Leadership, and other organizations mentioned in the episode.


The Arizona Constitution Project

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Interested in a Master's Degree? Check out the School of Civic and Economic Leadership's Master's in Classical Liberal Education and Leadership


Liz Evans:

Wow, okay. So today's episode is for the person who maybe has stalled a little bit or is just frustrated and needs like the refresh right. Like I feel like we all go through parts in our career where not necessarily we're bored, but we just kind of hit a wall. And so I invited my friend Nancie here today, because meaningful professional development supports our growth as educators, it supports our growth as leaders in civic education and, Nancie, I feel like you have done more PD and have a very wide understanding of professional development available not only in Arizona but out there. So before we get started, can you please just introduce yourself, tell us what you're passionate about and, yeah, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast.

Nancie Lindblom:

Thank you so much, liz. My name again is Nancie Lindblom. I have been an educator for 29 years, and all in Mesa Public Schools. I just left the classroom last year, so 27 years of teaching and now I am the secondary social studies content specialist for Mesa Public Schools, and what I am most passionate about is absolutely social studies education. I love history, I love government those are the two that American history and government were the two things that I mostly taught for my career and I'm obsessed with it. I love to learn about it. I love to vacation and visit historical spots. I love to listen to professors and engage. I just, I am very, very passionate about social studies, education and always figuring out ways in which to enhance the way we're doing things in classrooms to connect with our students that maybe don't naturally connect to the content that we teach.

Liz Evans:

And you are also an award-winning teacher, which we will get into as well. Excuse me, so, when you think back in your career earlier, what kind of professional development opportunities were most helpful? Let's say in like years, like one through five, right, when we're just starting, we're trying to get used to the classroom what was the most helpful for you?

Nancie Lindblom:

No, I've thought about this in the past and in those first couple of years, most of the professional development that I did was actually through our school, right? So the actual school I was teaching junior high. At the time we had an amazing instructional coach. Her name was Janet Carlson and she was delightful and I signed up for like every class that she taught and would stay after school so that I would learn, you know, how to manage my classroom and how to collaboratively work with students and how to get seventh and eighth graders right to get in and out of groups and all of those little technical things. That just really helped me figure out how to manage a classroom.

Nancie Lindblom:

And I actually, years afterwards, when I was teaching high school, somebody came and observed my classroom and they made some comments about classroom management and I said, yeah, because I used to be a junior high school teacher and I learned all of my management on the battlefield of junior high school, but mostly because of Janet Carlson. In the first couple of years that was what I totally focused on. But, like by year four or five, I started really wanting content, right, I wanted to expand my understanding of my content, to know more so that I could engage my students better, and so that was around the time that I started searching for professional learning experiences that weren't offered at my district, because our district does a great job, a wonderful job, but they one piece that they're lacking is that content, specific right, and so that's when I started searching for that elsewhere, outside of our district and outside of our school.

Liz Evans:

And it's interesting that you say that, because I feel I mean, I started as a junior high teacher too and this is why, too, like so I'm in my doctoral program and I will always tell people who read my writing you can't hurt my feelings, I taught junior high, but it is. It is that first, like you get into a classroom and you're like I just need, and no matter how good your college education was, until you are in it, you don't know how to do it. It is really that pedagogy and how to kind of make sure that your class is a place that learning can happen. And then you get to the place where you're like okay, I'm kind of comfortable here, Like the boat's rowing. Now I want the content, I want to deepen the things that I'm teaching.

Liz Evans:

Yeah, so how has and this is kind of a big question but how has professional development shaped your journey as an educator, but also as a leader in civic education? Because I am somebody who, when I was in the classroom, looked to people like you to be like this is the teacher I want to be, like you to be like this is the teacher I want to be and, for lack of a better word, kind of copied the things that you were doing, because I'm like I know what Nancie is and I know how she got there and this is kind of a path I want to take. So can you share what kind of PD was the most impactful for your journey?

Nancie Lindblom:

Yeah, I think that my journey, just as an overall statement, would be as a teacher, that without all of this professional learning, I honestly don't know what kind of a teacher I would have been. It is literally defined me as a teacher, right, every time, every summer, well, every November-ish right, when all the applications come out to all of these different programs, I'd get super excited and back in the day because again, old, older person here, right Back in the day we didn't have a Facebook page, we didn't have Facebook right, and I had literally just stumbled across one day when I was Google searching something and found a program and then from there, that one program just launched, right, like, I went to that one program and teachers in that program were like, oh well, how many others have you done? And I was like this is my first. And they were like there's so many. And then they would give me ideas and everyone that I went to it was just word of mouth from those people. And now we have this delightful, you know, facebook pages and newsletters that people send out and all kinds of different resources to actually tap us into all these different programs, but, goodness, the very one of the very first ones that I ever went on was a summer that we spent three weeks in Poland and the Czech Republic and the very last week we spent at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and it was led by a woman that's so delightful.

Nancie Lindblom:

Her name is Vlada Kamid and she's no longer with us, but she was a freedom fighter in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and every summer she took 30 teachers to Poland where all of this happened and we had the most amazing experiences.

Nancie Lindblom:

She led us through different camps, we went to Auschwitz and we went to Schindler's Factory and we went to Warsaw Ghetto. We just went all over the place and everywhere we went, we worked with the education department there and she brought in survivors of the Holocaust and she and and other guest speakers just the most amazing experience that I literally, when I came back from that one um went to my principal and said, can I teach a class on the Holocaust? I'd love to actually create a class on the Holocaust and and my principal was wonderful and let me do that. And then I taught it for the next seven years and it just completely transformed my experience in the classroom because it allowed me to literally develop a curriculum that I was then be able, was able to share with, with, uh, with students, but then other teachers in the district began teaching it as well. Right, so that was a wonderful experience. Um, but that kind of just set the bar real high.

Liz Evans:

I was going to say that's your first one.

Nancie Lindblom:

I am. I'm trying to think back, and maybe it wasn't the first one, but it was definitely within the first couple of years.

Liz Evans:

Right, yes.

Nancie Lindblom:

And then I started just kind of going from there and I I I got in contact with a school that was doing some work. Now they're known as teaching American history, right, but back then they weren't called that. And they were, it was out of Ashland university and they'd had just a classes that they were offering. And so I took a class one summer and it was like it was like nerdy history camp every all the history teachers together, looking at documents and just having a good time and then living in the in these, you know, senior apartments together and just having just a fabulous time.

Nancie Lindblom:

And from there they did a. They did a three-week program also. That was a week in Philadelphia and then Gettysburg and then Washington DC, and everywhere we went we were looking at we were looking at history through the lens of the promise of the Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal. And wherever we went we had these incredible professors, like to the point where we were walking around Gettysburg with a man, a gentleman, and everywhere we went people were like, oh my gosh, is that Gary Gallagher? And I was like, oh, who's Gary Gallagher? But Gary Gallagher was our professor and he was leading us around Gettysburg. And then you know, when I came back and every single documentary I've ever seen about the Civil War has Gary Gallagher.

Liz Evans:

Isn't that amazing. You're like, I know him.

Nancie Lindblom:

I spent time with him in Gettysburg. You're like, I know him. I spent time with him in Gettysburg and, honestly, for all of the different experiences that I've had, that's literally been the quality of professors that we've had in all of them, where I might not have known who that historian was before, and then I see them in documentaries afterwards and they've all been so fabulous to say you know, hey, just reach out to me and afterwards, if you have any questions or you're looking for anything, and I have and they've responded and offered sources and offered ideas. Even one of them was like before the pandemic, right before everything, I used to actually use zoom, before anybody knew what it was, and we would. I would contact, randomly, contact some people and be like, oh hey, would you like to Zoom with my kids? And Carol Birkin, a historian that I just adore, she Zoomed in with my kids and it was a fabulous experience that they just because they read her book and anyhow. But several of the professors from these different things were like, yeah, sure, I'll Zoom with your kids.

Nancie Lindblom:

And so not only was I actually in a historical place learning about something from amazing historians who were incredibly generous with their time during and afterwards it literally just would transform my ideas and I'd learn new history and then think, oh, this is where I want, this is how I can connect students, right?

Nancie Lindblom:

So all of these, these different historical experiences that I was having, was amazing, and on top of that they were introducing me to new pedagogical experiences as well, right? So one particular one that stands out in my mind with pedagogy was when we were doing a NEH seminar. It was just, it was a two week one on slavery and the constitution and and they brought in a woman professor her name was Diana Hess and she wrote this incredible book about controversy in the classroom and how we really that's our responsibility as social studies teachers to really grapple with that, with our students and let them understand how to deal with controversy. But she introduced me to a structure called a structured academic controversy, and it was the first time I'd ever heard of it and have used it so many times since. In fact, the next year, the next summer, I went to a street law with the Supreme Court and that was just incredible.

Liz Evans:

Mind blowing.

Nancie Lindblom:

I mean we got to meet the chief justice of the Supreme Court in the Supreme Court and it was just delightful and we got to sit in on this session in the Supreme Court. But they also they called them deliberations, not structured academic controversy. But it's the same thing, right, and they reiterated that. But those types of pedagogical strategies that are things I use all the time in a classroom and I encourage for other people to, because it really allows the students to interact in a way that is both positive and analytical and allows them to learn more about what we're talking about instead of just you know here's facts, right. So that is. I don't.

Nancie Lindblom:

I think I've just droned on a really long time I'm like our listeners can't see me, but the whole time I'm like uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, and this and this and this and so, experience after experience and then ultimately in leadership which I think is what you also asked, in civics leadership, I would come in contact with organizations and I think to myself, oh, I should be a part of that, right. And so through my experiences, I was able to, you know, join my professional organizations the National Council for Social Studies, the Arizona Council for Social Studies, the National Council for Social Studies, the Arizona Council for Social Studies. I'm currently on the board of the Arizona Council for History Education. All because of these types of experiences and pulling them together and just thinking to myself if I had these great, wonderful experiences, how can I then make sure that other teachers have those experiences as well? So kind of led into those leadership positions in that way.

Liz Evans:

I so when you brought up Ashlyn, I almost said and Grandpa's Cheese Barn, because when you go to Ashland Ohio you have to go to Grandpa's Cheese Barn.

Liz Evans:

I took one class and it was so. It was just yes, you're with other teachers who are just like so excited and and so lovely. I think that is my favorite thing. Also, the like.

Liz Evans:

I went to one with the Bill of Rights Institute, with Gordon Wood, and he was so cool and he legitimately meant hey, if you have questions, send me an email. And the more I work with scholars and faculty, the more I'm like no, this is actually who they are. They want to help, they want to talk to kids Like this is what they like doing. So if people and they love teachers, they genuinely love teachers, and it is so fun to go to these, to be treated like the royalty that teachers are, because all of these places treat you so well, and then to have these experiences. I did not get to meet the chief justice, but I did get to meet justice Kagan, who used my first name and I almost passed out in the supreme court because it it, it is. You realize they're just normal people who are just as in awe of you as you are of them, and that is such a it's such a cool feeling. I feel like PD is always what like wound me back up.

Nancie Lindblom:

Yes, absolutely, it's that. Uh, rejuvenation that, that that just connects you back to all the reasons why you love, you love what you do, right, and it gets you ramped up for the next year, right.

Liz Evans:

Absolutely, and it is because I went to a bunch in 2016, 2016 was the like, or I was like, well, I'm just going to apply and see what happens. And I got five. It was like did you do all of them? I did, I did. I had a very supportive administrator who because so for people who are maybe outside of Arizona, school starts early here, so we usually start like the middle of July and a lot of these PDs are like my first week of school or in August. But I had an administrator who was like you want to go to Stanford law school the first week of school? Okay, bye, your kids are going to benefit more from you going to that than you being at the first week of school. I also went to Montpelier that year.

Nancie Lindblom:

I love that, and it was it was amazing, and it was.

Liz Evans:

I think, after that year of it was 2016, that year of teaching for me was probably one of the best years, because I was so. I'd gone to street law, I had gone to teaching American history, I'd gone to a Bill of Rights Institute, I'd done all of these things and I came back and I was like, let's go, like I'm so stoked for this, um, so, one of the oh, sorry, I was going to say I think that that's so, the ones that you just mentioned.

Nancie Lindblom:

Right, there's um, so many museums and organizations that have all kinds of resources, for teachers are offering these over the summer, and, and I always find that whenever I do something directly where I'm engaged in the resources, I'm more likely to use them in the future.

Nancie Lindblom:

Yes, so knowing that the National Constitution Center has resources is one thing, but then sitting in the National Constitution Center where you've just heard from Akilah Marr, who became one of my favorite of all time standing in the room chatting with you and telling you all kinds of things about the constitution, and then they pull out and here's some of the ways in which we teach it, and then I'm looking at it there and I'm thinking, oh yeah, I will definitely use this, and I do Right, because I'm there and I'm engaged in the work, and I think that you are more likely, whenever we have those experiences, to actually use the materials Right.

Nancie Lindblom:

And so that's another reason why I always encourage teachers anywhere and we're not even talking about these big ones like the National Constitution Center that we have to travel for and get these lovely stipends for that they pay for it and we don't have to, you know, pay out of our pocket. But we have those experiences here. I mean, asu has some wonderful ones that I've attended and teachers have attended that don't cost me anything and I actually get a little stipend right. So anytime that I have the opportunity to engage and then they can show me where those resources are found and what they have to offer, I think it is a fabulous opportunity as a teacher to just say yes and attend.

Liz Evans:

So, before we get to ASUs, I do want to also say so, Nancie, you are a James Madison fellow 2011?.

Nancie Lindblom:

So I went in 2011, but I think I was awarded in 2010. Okay, I went to Washington DC, which is a part of that.

Liz Evans:

the year following, yeah so can you tell so for people who do not know what the James Madison fellowship is? So I know lots of James Madison fellows. I happen to be married to one. What? What is the James Madison fellowship and why should every teacher in Arizona apply for this award?

Nancie Lindblom:

that was that dealt with. Well, that gave me an opportunity to use what I was learning through the entire program on a day-to-day basis in my classroom. And I found that with Ashland University in their MAG program, which is the at the time it was really the only one that existed, right? And since I believe ASU has a program as well that's very similar to it, but at the time there wasn't another one. But I was figuring out how in the world am I going to pay to go to Ohio every summer to take these classes and to do this? And I was like ready to take out a loan.

Nancie Lindblom:

But I started searching the internet for is just any scholarship exist, right? The one I found was the Madison, right, so the Madison is a fully funded master's program, right? So basically, you get, I think, up to $24,000 for the master's degree, as long as it's in American history and government, because it's a James Madison fellow. And in addition to the fact that you are paid for your master's degree, they also pay for you to come to Washington DC for four weeks and to study at Georgetown University, right, and with amazing professors, and they take you around and you have amazing experiences there. That's where I actually got to meet Ruth Bader Ginsburg, which was, I mean, that one was like a mind blow, but that was incredible and we, in that we also did a. I'm pretty sure it was with Madison that we did a moot court in the United States Court of Appeals where the Chief Justice of the Court of Appeals and his clerks ran the moot court.

Liz Evans:

That's amazing.

Nancie Lindblom:

And then gave us insights into different things. It was. It was fabulous, but that whole experience then. So you have that four weeks where one person from every state is chosen every year as a Madison fellow and then you get to bond in those four, four weeks like and and a lot of those teachers that I was actually going to was that were there. With Madison, we're also doing the same master's program that I was, so we would.

Nancie Lindblom:

We actually went from Madison to the summers at in Ohio together and I made fabulous friends across the United States that were just as excited about as social studies as I was and about history and government, and still keep in contact with many of them. Right, but the experience is just. It is one of the single most greatest experiences that I've had, and through these different programs, was definitely the Madison Fellowship, which gave me the opportunity to get a master's degree at a university that was designed literally for teachers. Right, their program entirely was designed for teachers, which then, of course, just grew my world, being able to actually have a master's in my content area, not just a curriculum master's, which is a good master's but the master's I have.

Nancie Lindblom:

It's a great, but it's not but this master's like also affords me the ability to be able to teach at a junior college and to teach dual enrollment and to teach because I have a master's in content area as well, and it also just gave me so many primary sources and the other resources for me to be used with my students. It just changed everything Right, but that everybody that I can try to convince I actually say go for the Madison. In fact, to the last two Madisons that have been chosen from Arizona, I wrote letters of recommendation for Yay. So I'm always trying to convince people because it was just they're a delightful organization and everywhere you go in the civics world you'll find other Madison fellows right, and it's a network unlike any other.

Nancie Lindblom:

I was at the we the People national competition with my team and we made it into the top 10. And after they make the top 10 announcement, they have all the top 10 judges all come into. I mean teachers all come into a room so that they can talk about the logistics for the next day and we're all chatting and I realized that like six out of the 10 of us were all Madison fellows and I was like, yeah, this seems about right, that checks out, we share the same passion, apparently.

Liz Evans:

Well, and that you know again, I went through it secondarily with my husband. I did apply a couple of times and did not make it. It is a thing that people don't get it on their first try.

Nancie Lindblom:

Those are two people that I just talked about. Both did not get it on their first try, but got it on their second try. So I always encourage people to do more than once for sure. Yes, because it is more normal to not receive it on your first try than it is to get it on your first try, right.

Nancie Lindblom:

And and honestly, um. With that in mind, I always, if somebody says to me I'm not sure if I'm ready, I'm like apply now, whether you're ready. Or if you feel like you're ready to apply now and if you get it you will be ready, Right, but if you don't, then they'll give you another go around and you'll be ready when you get it. But absolutely apply and apply again if you don't get it.

Liz Evans:

School of Civic and Economic Thought and Leadership does have a master's degree that the Madison Fellowship has said yes, this covers it. They get to go up to Flagstaff in the summer. It is an amazing program, and so, if you're interested in that, in our show notes it is at the bottom. You also, though, were the 2013 Arizona Teacher of the Year, and I want to bring that up because I was in 2014 class in the top 10. And one of the reasons that I was like I want to go for this is because you won in 2013. And we did not know each other then.

Nancie Lindblom:

Oh, I remember.

Liz Evans:

I remember, you know, my principal was like I think you should apply for this. And I'm like I don't know. And I did a little bit of research and that's when I kind of found you and was like this is the teacher I want to be. Then I, you know what, I'm going to try it because I think a lot of times too, especially in these like state or national things, we we don't see social studies teachers a lot. Right, and there are math teachers that are amazing in english. There are so many amazing teachers, but I feel like the we're just not represented as much. So to see you in the year before I I mean for me it opened my eyes. I don't think I've ever told you this and it was.

Nancie Lindblom:

It was like to me it was a big, it was a big deal, and I think that it was.

Liz Evans:

it was like to me it was a big, it was a big deal and I think that it was. You know, keep applying, keep trying for these things because, like AEF, again I was in the top 10. I did not make it to the top five. Beth Mahoney was teacher of the year 2014. Shout out to Beth, my homie, 2014. Shout out to Beth, my homie. But again it created these bigger networks of people who were cheering for you, who want you to go on and do things, who will write letters of recommendation for you and kind of, do you know all of these really cool things? And so don't, yes I. The whole point of that is do not get discouraged if you get a no the first time.

Nancie Lindblom:

Yeah, and I always tell people with anything, if it's a no the first time, try again. And then there's always these teachers that I will come in contact with that say, oh, I would never get that, I'm not even going to try. And I think, well, of course you're not going to get it if you don't try. I mean, I've applied for things that I have not gotten into and I think to myself, oh darn it, but it hasn't stopped me from saying, next time, right, going for something else. Because every single time, with whatever experience that has been, it has shaped me as a teacher. It has helped my students. It has been what has made me the teacher that I am, and I've never been on a single one of these experiences where I regretted being a part of it, that I didn't take away something that changed me or the way that I teach.

Liz Evans:

Yes, amazing. So can we get to some more ASU specific ones, because you have been I want to call friend of the center um for a while, mostly because we run in the same circles. You know, we're both on the board of directors of the Arizona Council for History Education which, if you are listening to this now, monica, the president, has been. On a past uh podcast episode. She talked about the conference which I'm so excited about. What initially drew you to PD through ASU's Center for American Civics.

Nancie Lindblom:

So I will say that I mean I think I've kind of said this through the entire time that I just love professional learning when it comes to social studies, if it's related to it. I want to be a part of that, and we don't actually have a lot of it in Arizona, right? So we have some. Like I, before ASU started this program, I had done a few things with NAU through. Is it the Springer Institute? I think maybe it's the's where they do their Holocaust studies, but but I so the minute that there was an opportunity through ASU, I was like, yes, please, so.

Nancie Lindblom:

and then I went to one and, of course, it was just the types of learning that I like to do where it's document based, where it's talking to an expert, where it's taking a little look at how can I implement this in my classroom as well. It's the perfect mix of the way that I like these types of experiences to go right. I want it to be content heavy and then give me a few ideas on how I can actually put this into my classroom. Right, and that's exactly the experience that I've had with ASU and to the extent that we've brought them over to our district a couple of times, right, Because I'm like I would like to share this experience with other teachers, and so we've brought them in and we've always had a positive experience. But, but ultimately, the initial draw was oh my gosh, it's right here.

Nancie Lindblom:

It's here in Arizona right, I don't have to go anyplace, it's right here and it's local. And then once I attended, I was like and it's good right.

Liz Evans:

So it's local and it's good.

Nancie Lindblom:

So we will continue to participate, for sure.

Liz Evans:

My colleague, jeff, does a lot of those teacher workshops. Working with our faculty is so fun, it's such a cool job to like now. I mean, I work with faculty so there are times where I'll just walk down the hall because I have a question and it's like, well, whoever's door is open. Times where I'll just walk down the hall because I have a question and it's like, well, whoever's door is open and it's always the right door. I loved it. You were also one of our teacher mentors for our Civic Leadership Institute and over the past five years of the Civic Leadership Institute that I've overseen, we've kind of gone through different iterations of it because of funding or whatever else. But can you kind of talk about your experience with Civic Leadership Institute, because I think that sometimes we talk about it but until you're there with the kids, with the faculty, it's hard to explain.

Nancie Lindblom:

Yeah, it was great. We had a fabulous time. It again was a nice blend of things that I enjoy, like hanging out with kids and talking to them about important ideas, listening to experts, um, having those important conversations and then also, um, looking at it in a pedagogical way in which they actually had to do something. Like the Institute that I was a part of, they did like a a little mock moot court, so to speak, right at the end of it and the kids were so excited about it, they were so into it and we got to kind of advise them through the process.

Nancie Lindblom:

But what a fabulous experience to actually see students digging into really kind of tough topics in a way that was a, was a, was a deep and analytical way and blended really well together. Right, so they would have moments where they were listening to lectures, where there would be some give and take from the professors, but then they had all these sessions where they would sit down with professors and also mentors and really dig into and have conversations about it and then be able to ultimately kind of assess how they were through that moot chord at the end. So it was a wonderful balance and blend of looking at different ways in which to engage students, but ours was on the freedom. Well, it was the First Amendment right and the insights from students were fabulous and the conversations were incredible. So it was just a wonderful experience and would absolutely recommend this to students.

Nancie Lindblom:

In fact, the next year, one of my colleagues, I was like I know your daughter just loves this kind of stuff. You've got to get her to go, and she did, and she had an incredible time. We got a few students from our from our school district to go as well. Besides her. She was also from our school district and they all just had an incredible experience. So I would 100% recommend for students to be able to participate in this.

Liz Evans:

And it gives them a little taste of college, I think, like in a manageable way.

Liz Evans:

Right, like this is, I think, sometimes for students, college is this like anomaly of, like oh, when I get to college, it's going to be this, this and this, and it's like your professors are people and they want to help you learn. Like it's it's something that's and you don't have to come in knowing everything, and that's always the question I get Well, I don't really know a whole lot. It's like, okay, I didn't know a whole lot until I put this reader together and I actually like I learned a lot by listening to the kids. Like there are times where I'm like, oh my gosh, I never thought of that. Or last year they did cabinet battles because it was on Lincoln and Frederick Douglass and like the ideals of the Declaration of Independence and it was so interesting because they said things that I'm like I never again I've been doing this for two decades never thought of that. And I love learning from students and I wish that more people understood like the reason that we teach and work with kids is because we learn so much from them too.

Nancie Lindblom:

And we were like we don't know these students, like it was only a week long and yet during that time, building those relationships with them, and I will say that one of the my favorite things was just watching them as they interacted with the professors. They're used to talking to high school teachers, they're used to talking to us, right, but to see them engaging with a professor in an intellectual way, right when they were posing questions and saying what they thought about different documents and really engaging in that conversation, I just loved watching that and being a part of that.

Liz Evans:

And one of the things I love about our professors is they really engage in kind of that Socratic dialogue. So they're not the sage on the stage and they know a lot, right Like, they'll give you the background, they'll do all this, but kids will ask questions, and the way they respond and engage a kid in a conversation I think also is such a cool thing to watch because, you see, you know, at first they're like afraid to to ask questions or free to engage. By the end of the first day, hands are up, kids want to talk because they have this time with the professor, but then they also have a time with a teacher mentor who is going to be like here's, like let's make sure we all get it, because that pedagogical piece still needs to exist. So we have the content from our faculty and the pedagogy and and yes, and I'm I'm so glad that you've been able to be a teacher mentor also, you know, a participant in our workshops, and I'm glad that we've been able to come to your school district because literally that's why we exist. We want to.

Liz Evans:

You know, I didn't have that much like you, I had to go outside, go to different places to get my PD, and I feel confident that I can speak for Jeff too, like Jeff, and I just love helping teachers. At the end of the day, that's literally our job, and what a cool job to have. Plus, we get to work with cool scholars, so it's fun, I think. My last question, then, for you, Nancie, because you are an expert in this field what professional development experiences do you think are most needed right now for educators? Because we're in again I hate saying like we're in an unprecedented time, because I want to throw that word out the window, but I don't know how else to say it. It feels heavy, it feels hard. What kind of PD experiences do you think, because you work with teachers? What do you think that they would benefit most from?

Nancie Lindblom:

I think that right now, anything that is teaching you how to teach hard history with students, right, and to do it in a civil dialogue, I think those are the most important. We're living in definitely unprecedented times in the classroom, for sure, right, and in a world that's very polarized and we, by nature of what we teach, teach a lot of controversial things. So you know, you go back to that idea that I mentioned before with Diana Hess and her book. Like she talks entirely in that book about, it is our responsibility as social studies teachers, right, to be able to lead our students through these tough conversations in a way that is civil. But digging deeper into what that actually means, right, not just, um, not saying to people like civil is that we act nice to each other? Right, but digging into the idea of the a civil dialogue in, in, in engages active listening, um, it engages me using evidence when I am from credible sources, when I'm giving arguments with people and and actually is it an argument as much as this is how I see it, and here's what the evidence that I have that backs that up and then being able to actually listen to somebody else do the same thing, right. So when I look at what I think is the number. That's a hard thing to actually manage in a classroom. That's not necessarily something that just comes to teachers, and so any type of training, any type of professional learning, that is going to gauge you through that process, which is absolutely what I think teachers need the most of right now.

Nancie Lindblom:

And I'll say that we've always, in social studies, kind of thought in that way in how we make sure that we can train teachers to be able to do that in the classroom.

Nancie Lindblom:

But we're seeing it more and more and more because of the times that we're living in right now, and so I see this incorporated in just about everything that I participate in.

Nancie Lindblom:

Right Is there, they have those elements of it in right is there, they have those elements of it. Just recently there was here in Arizona from the Korematsu Institute. They had a day and that was a part of the conversation, right, like how do we teach this hard history? And making sure that we don't ignore the history, right, but that we teach it in a way that is going to engage our students and and allow them to have a civil conversation about what is happening in history and what lessons we can learn from that. So that would be my. My recommendation is find anything and everything that you can that has to do with that topic, because I don't want teachers to shy away from history and government. I want them to teach real history and teach real government. So we need to find ways to make sure that we're still doing that right, that we're not afraid to be out in the classroom.

Liz Evans:

And if you're a member of the community listening to this and you're like, oh, I don't, kids can't do that, that you need to volunteer to judge for we, the people because, and I, you know, I, I used to have my eighth graders do congressional hearings and they can. They can, I will say because I've, you know, I've. I've been to mountain view what's on mountain view. I've been to corona del sol what's up Mountain View. I've been to Corona Del Sol, who made top 10 in national this year who is also that is my.

Liz Evans:

That's my high school. It is genuinely probably the most refreshing thing to sit there and and listen to these students and listen to the things that they're saying, because I always leave in my head thinking kids are all right, like right. You and I were were there, we were helping with Corona and it was like the kids are all right. These kids are so awesome and they can have these conversations. They sometimes just need guidance from adults who can say have you considered this, have you thought about this? And you know? Huge shout out to the we the People teachers, because that is a social studies is a hard job. Preparing those kids for a competition is a really hard job. So I do want to give a shout out to the we the People teachers because wow.

Nancie Lindblom:

There's also so many other programs out there that I became more familiar with because of doing teacher right. There's an awesome one with youth and government that that takes students to the Capitol and they run through what it is to pass a bill and everything right there. And there is Project Citizen and History Day and all of these things that literally are taking our students exactly the way we want them to be taught right and and they're able to do such amazing things. I remember I, I um judged for um history day one year and I did the elementary school level and it was like some fourth graders and fifth graders they were just young and they were. They blew my mind. It was like oh my gosh, what they were able to accomplish and know and then articulate. And it was. It was phenomenal to actually see that. So absolutely Like when we can engage our students in this way, it's, and they can do it right.

Liz Evans:

Yes, they absolutely can. They just need they need adults to believe in them and to care about them and to volunteer for these things. I actually I'm doing the Project Citizen and I'm excited because it's just, it genuinely fills me up to do things like this. So, Nancie, you are a treasure for the state of Arizona. I am so lucky to call you a friend. Thank you for your time today. I just I adore you and I am so happy that.

Nancie Lindblom:

I got to sit and talk to you For sure, and thank you for inviting me.

People on this episode

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Liz Evans

Host
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Nancie Lindbolm

Guest