From Shot Lists to Seamless Days: Wedding Planner and Photographer Insights

Imagine ensuring that every single moment of a wedding is captured perfectly without any last-minute surprises. Laurie Hartwell, Krisy Thomas, and Aisha Garnett join us to unravel the common, but critical, challenge of when photography companies withhold the contact information of assigned photographers. Learn how early communication and transparency can prevent misunderstandings and create a personalized, seamless experience for the bride and groom. Hear firsthand stories of near mishaps and misunderstandings that were easily avoidable with a bit of early planning and coordination.

We dive into the nuts and bolts of creating detailed shot lists and why they're non-negotiable tools for both planners and photographers. Discover how these lists safeguard important moments without limiting creative freedom. We discuss real-world examples of how miscommunication can lead to delays and missed shots, emphasizing that proactive, open dialogue can bridge the gap between planners' meticulous timelines and photographers' artistic visions. By aligning expectations early, both parties can fulfill the couple's dreams without added stress.

The episode culminates in an inspiring call for industry collaboration and mutual support among all wedding professionals. Laurie, Krisy, and Aisha stress the importance of setting egos aside to ensure a flawless wedding day. From thoughtful touches like providing water on hot days, to sharing trusted referrals, the conversation highlights practical ways to foster a supportive environment. Wrapping up with an invitation to explore the benefits of the CWP Society membership, we encourage all wedding pros to join a community committed to elevating industry standards and delivering unforgettable experiences.

www.cwpsociety.com | info@cwpsociety.com | IG: @cwpsociety | FB: @cwpsociety

Transcript

Collaboration Between Wedding Planners and Photographers

Speaker 1 0:00

You're listening to the Wedding Pro Podcast brought to you by the CWP Society. Welcome to the Wedding Pro Podcast brought to you by the CWP Society, where wedding planners and pros collaborate to raise the standards in the wedding industry. The CWP Society is also the world's largest membership of wedding professionals and the leading wedding planner certification program. My name is Lori Hartwell and I'm the CEO, and I am joined by my fabulous Vice President, chrissy Thomas, owner of Southern Sparkle Weddings, as well as my dear friend, aisha Garnett, master Certified Wedding Planner and Certified Educator, as well as the owner of Cherie Amor Weddings and Events. Hello, ladies.

Speaker 2 0:49

Hi Lori and hi Aisha, and also obviously, hi to our wonderful listeners. Aisha, I'm excited about today. Fill us in. What are we going to be talking about? I'm excited for our girl talk.

Speaker 3 1:00

Today we're talking about a topic that caught our attention in regards to the collaboration between wedding planners and photographers, so I'm just going to throw out a couple of scenarios to you, ladies, and, of course, we're just going to do a deep dive into it and talk about it. So, girls, we are all wedding planners. What do you do in a situation when you're working with a photography company and they have many photographers on staff, but they refrain from providing you with the contact information of the actual photographers who will be assigned to your client's big day? What do you do in those situations?

Speaker 2 1:35

You know, as the wedding planners, we all have that approved vendor list where it's our, the people who we recommend to our clients based on their style, their budget, how amazing they are to work with.

Speaker 2 1:46

This will probably be a company that I would no longer keep on my approved vendor list, completely going way ahead of this, because for me and I tell my couples this you're going to actually be with your photographer more than anyone else throughout the entire day, even more so than the person that you're getting married to. So I want you to know who is shooting your wedding and, as your wedding planner, I very much need to know who is shooting your wedding. So to kind of gatekeep and hold that person hostage from. To me, some of the most important people at the wedding day the couple and the planner is like a waving red flag of what do you mean? You won't tell me who is shooting this couple's wedding, like, I need to know that piece of information as a planner. That's a red flag for me of being like okay, so I will more than likely not recommend your company to another couple ever again.

Speaker 1 2:41

Yeah, and, and, honestly, one of the reasons is I want to be able to see their work ahead of time. I want to make sure that the personalities are just right. I want, you know, my job that I've been hired to do for my couples is to fit them with the right pros and, I think, especially photography. It's so personalized, you know, because our clients have very specific ideas in their mind of the types of and style of photography that they're looking for. But because, based off of what Chrissy was just saying, how they are the ones with our clients more than anyone else, longer than anyone else, the personalities have to be just right. And if I can't see their work and I don't know who these people are and I don't know their personality, how in the world can we be prepared and ready to go for wedding day?

Speaker 1 3:24

And I have questions for my photographers before wedding day. I want to dive in with them and kind of discover, you know, what their needs are. I want to know what they, what their preferences are, and and hey, we're, we've got this plan and the couple wants this. What are your thoughts? What's the best thing to do about that? You know, I want to be able to talk to that photographer way, way in advance about that. You know, I want to be able to talk to that photographer way, way in advance. But if you're keeping this in the dark until you know what, like the day before, this isn't going to be a way, for there's no way we're going to be able to collaborate. You know, Aisha, has this ever happened to you?

Speaker 3 3:57

Yes, I completely agree with both of you. I literally just worked with a photography company. We'll name no names, but I worked with them and I literally received the two photographers' names and phone numbers the day before the wedding. And, like you say, lori, I have questions. Did these photographers receive my timelines? Do they have questions for how the day's gonna go? Like there was no communication between myself and them and I just didn't really understand why. I spoke with the lead, with the photography company, all the way through and then, by the way, we're just gonna introduce you to two photographers not really introduce photographers, but we'll let you know who they are the day before.

Speaker 2 4:48

So it's kind of like going in blindsided and then, when you meet the actual day, you're kind of playing catch up that's so funny that you mentioned that, because the same scenario happened to me years ago with the same where it was a company this is who your photographers are. That completely caught me off guard, because I do remember specifically asking will you be the lead that day? And I was given a yes. So I don't know if there was an emergency and something switched and changed up that I was unaware of, but the person that they brought in in fact did not read the timeline. And this particular couple they were doing a first touch where they didn't see each other, but they wanted to hold hands, you know, with something blocking their view pray with one another. They didn't want to do a first look.

Speaker 2 5:34

Well, this photographer was getting them geared up to do a first look and, ironically, I was in the room as it was half getting ready to happen and I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, they do not want to see each other. And they're like, oh, I thought it was getting ready to happen and I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, they do not want to see each other. And they're like oh, I thought it was the first look and I'm like did you not read the timeline? But more than likely. I don't think they got the timeline in time to really read it and digest it. So I'm so glad that you mentioned that, because that is something that, as planners, we kind of have to think about, which is why we want to know who was showing up to this wedding to shoot it.

Speaker 1 6:06

Because, honestly, otherwise it's kind of like a potluck right. You know when you're going to like a potluck dinner. You never know what foods and dinners are going to be brought. I don't want a potluck wedding day like that. That's not what I'm looking for. You know, part of explaining a wedding is it always uses the word plan. We're planning a wedding, whether it's the couples planning their wedding, the wedding planners planning the wedding. It's the wedding planning process, but you know what's always in there Plan, and so I want to make sure that people understand the importance of being able to plan, and part of that is to know which wedding pros we're getting in advance so that we can have the right conversations.

Speaker 1 6:48

Otherwise, it is just too big of a gamble and there are no do-overs on wedding day and this could go drastically, drastically wrong. So it scares me to pieces and so that's why I don't work with companies that do things like that, and sometimes, like Chrissy was saying, like a company completely threw her for a loop, like that was not what she had understood from this company. But there are agencies that are out there that have like a ton of photographers or a ton of DJs. Those are not companies that we, as wedding planners, typically work with, and sometimes we all as wedding planners need to be careful because companies might change up the way that they do business, and so it may have just been them, and now all of a sudden they brought on three or four different photographers, and now they're they're handling things different within their business and they didn't let us know, and so now we're caught off guard and it almost looks like we, as the wedding planner, hid that from the couple, and that's a bad position to put us in.

Speaker 2 7:53

So I'm not a fan of it and I hope that photographers are listening into this so that they know that that doesn't really work long term and I love Lori because you mentioned this earlier how truly personal wedding photography and their role in the day truly is. And sometimes I think what happens with us in the industry is we forget our why, which should be being a part of these love stories. So I think maybe some of these photographers are wanting to just be booked so it's like well, I'm not available, but let me find an associate photographer who is not taking into consideration People are seeing your work, they're seeing you, your personality show through that to their interviewing. So if you're just hiring a bunch of associate photographers who maybe don't feel well within your brand, who don't really aren't really a true representation of your company, this could, in turn, do more harm than that you may not even realize.

Speaker 1 8:46

Yeah, so I mean my. My advice here to photographers is be transparent. If you are going to be bringing on additional photographers, please make sure that your clients know that it's not going to be you, the owner. Make sure that the wedding planner knows well in advance which photographer is going to be on the wedding, and do so at the time of the contract being signed, so that we can prepare Now. If it changes, you know, during that planning process, then let us know if the change and let us know as soon as possible. But don't throw us for a loop. But I think it's good information for wedding planners to have to be aware that this could in fact happen to them. So it just kind of goes into that collaboration between a wedding planner and a photographer. We need to be on the same page, we need to be talking the same language.

Speaker 3 9:32

I will say that this was a company that was one of those all in ones with the venue Got it. So, yeah, that could have played a major role in why they didn't really have specific photographers that were known Great point, yeah. Now I have another scenario to throw at you. Okay, photographers request that you provide them with a shot list. Let's discuss what a planner should do in a case where it's time for family portraits and there are many family dynamics. For example, the mother and father are divorced and they're not speaking to one another. You, as the planner, know this. Your couple has given you the heads up, but the photographer totally disregards the shot list. And here we are, mom and dad side by side for family portraits, furious, that you don't really want to look back on. So can we touch on the importance of that shot list and how everyone involved needs to know about it and how it impacts everyone?

Speaker 1 10:33

Yeah, honestly, I want people to know what the why is behind the shot list, and the why is because we have limited time on wedding day to get all of the family photos done day to get all of the family photos done. And so the reason why I always like to request a shot list from my couple is so that I can add up how many shots need to be done, multiply that by the magic number and figure out how long this process is going to take, so that I know how to create this itinerary, so that all my other wedding professionals have their time allotted and that everybody's happy and getting everything that they need. Now I have always taken that shot list and given it to the photographer and it, once it's narrowed down cause I get I work with a couple to go okay. So how many of these do we really need? Because we need to try and keep this within an hour of time. While all your guests are enjoying cocktail hour, we're taking these formal pictures and right now you have four hours worth of photo shots and that's not going to really work. So let's go ahead and work together to kind of mold this down. Once I get it down to an hour. I like to share that with the photographer Now.

Effective Communication in Wedding Planning

Speaker 1 11:41

I've always had a great relationship with my photographers and they've always been super appreciative of me getting this list to them.

Speaker 1 11:47

But there have been a lot of photographers that some of my wedding planners, my members, have experienced, uh, in where they just the photographer is mad that a shot list even exists, and I think what we need to tell the the photographers is well, there.

Speaker 1 12:06

There's a why behind it, because if we don't plan this out, you guys could be there for hours upon hours, and so we need to know ahead of time, because we're literally planning out the entire day, step by step, moment by moment, and so we have to have all of these details. So I would prefer the photographer not to be upset with it, but if there's a problem with the list, this is the appropriate time prior to the wedding day to discuss it and to discuss why some of these shots aren't going to work. So, instead of getting mad at a planner for giving you the information that their clients want you to have, maybe take it as an opportunity instead and go. Hmm, this is an opportunity for me to have more information so that I know now how to deal with this couple. What do you guys think I?

Speaker 2 12:52

think too with photographers. When they hear the term shot list, I think sometimes they immediately think of a list of like I want my invitations pictured, I want my shoes, the bracelet, I want me to be set up with my bridesmaids and pop in the bottle of champagne, and sometimes they immediately think that they're being handcuffed with. Well, I know how to get these shots. This is what I do, I know what I'm doing. To me that's two different shot lists. That family shot list that we're discussing is, to me, what's going to keep them on track and keep them. Like you said, lord, making sure the day goes well. But even that shot list that I think of those personal items, those things like that, sometimes that's also needed because you may not realize that part of your flat lay photos includes her grandmother's engagement ring and if you don't realize that then you're not going to capture that.

Speaker 2 13:44

You know we had a wedding where it was hosted by the bride's family owned a pumpkin patch, so there was a ridiculous amount of pumpkins that we incorporated into the design.

Speaker 2 13:54

It was so much fun.

Speaker 2 13:56

But when we put it in the shot list, please make sure you get photos of these pumpkins and the details of them, because they also want to use them at their pumpkin patch. So we made sure that was included in the shotlets and the photographer was like I'm glad you mentioned that because you know I got some you know design photos that I normally get for you but I didn't focus in really on these pumpkins. So I'm glad you said that to me because now I know that was something that was very important to them. So I think if photographers know that as planners, we are not trying to handcuff you at all, we are not trying to limit your creativity that's why we want you, because you're good at that, but we also know what's important to our couples. So if you can have an open mind when it comes to these shot lists and know that you can still do your thing, boo, do your thing, do what you're good at, but hey, don't forget to capture this photo, because this is something that's really important to them.

Speaker 3 14:49

Yeah, I agree, and I want to speak a little bit too. I believe you said, Lori, sometimes these photographers are mad, or they're a little. You know they want to their opinion on the fact that you even gave them a shot list. I literally just had an experience where I included the shot list in my timeline because I want to make sure Got it. You see it, here's how much time you have no questions asked. I was working with this particular photographer and the day before the wedding they raised some concern that they may not be able to get all the shots in the shot list and the bride had mentioned the shot list to them because she's literally listing mom and dad, mom and two brothers, John and Jason, like you know, just naming everybody, and the day before this photographer is oh well, I'm a little concerned.

Speaker 1 15:45

Yeah, the time to have that conversation was not the day before the wedding. The time to have that conversation was when I sent you over the timeline to begin with, which was weeks to months ago. So that's the time to discuss it because if you have concerns, I want to make sure that I'm accommodating you, the photographer, as much as I possibly can, while also making sure that you know kind of what Chrissy was saying. Our clients want specific things and they want to make sure that some of the things that are important to them are being captured and we have to make sure that we are able to feel free to communicate with one another without the fear of you being either irritated or angry or you got the fear of you not reading the information that we're providing you and then you coming to me at the last possible second wanting to change things up.

Speaker 1 16:40

That is not the time, y'all. That is not the time to have that conversation. So you know, we as wedding professionals, planners and pros alike, we have to do better in knowing the proper time to communicate. There's got to be a strategy in place and we need to stop winging things the communication so that we can have these really important discussions in advance with no surprises or wrenches thrown in our tra-la-la. Like you know, I don't need that nonsense, and so we need to make sure that we're keeping that top of mind.

Speaker 2 17:22

And I think we need to also look outside of yourselves and your ego and just look at the bigger picture One of my photographer friends posted and this was such a good point that these wedding images sometimes, or some of these moments that are being captured, are never going to happen again, or these are going to be those final moments with those family members.

Speaker 2 17:43

It's hard to get big groups of family and friends together in one spot. A wedding is, where you do that at least a joyous occasion. So that picture that you want with your grandmother helping you in your dress or your grandpa helping you with your shoes, that's on the shot list because that moment may not be able to be recreated. The reason why she had the list of, like me, my brother and my mom, because we don't have a professional picture together at all and this is going to be the day where we can actually get that moment captured. So this goes beyond us and your artisticness and your ego. This is about these couples and their families and capturing the day. So it's this shot list. To me is beyond just how creative you can be, but really making sure your couples are getting what they want and what they need.

Speaker 1 18:26

That's right. It's an opportunity. That's all it is.

Speaker 3 18:29

Yeah, and I think just to add to that I mean as planners and pros, like this is what we do day in, day out, every weekend. So if we can create those lines of communication beforehand, then maybe we can discuss how you can best do those shot lists. What do you need to come up with so that you can make sure everybody's there and you're calling them list by you know, name by name, list by list. Which group is going first? Like, if we can discuss those things ahead of time, get in front of what you know photographers may be feeling it could be daunting for the day, then help, like you know, that's what we're here for. We're planners, we help.

Speaker 3 19:17

So I have one more scenario to discuss with you, ladies as wedding planners and this is to the point of those timelines it's our job to plan those timelines out in very, very full detail. Now many photographers create their own timeline. Sometimes they aren't always willing to work with planners to accommodate us or merge the timelines together from the start. So let's discuss what planners should be saying to those photographers who don't maintain the timeline the wedding planners have created, moving to the beat of their own drum.

Speaker 2 19:44

It is a thing, and I think sometimes what happens is both sometimes planners not willing to collaborate with the photographers, photographers not willing to collaborate with the planners, and I think the reason is because we're not probably looking at the bigger picture and not realizing that it's, in fact, an entire domino effect. So, for your photographers, I need to know what time you need the bride in her dress, because that's going to impact my hair and makeup schedule. I need to. You need to know what time music is starting, because your pictures need to be done before guests arrive. So that's why it takes all of us really collaborating with one another to make this timeline and truly being team players.

Speaker 2 20:23

If you're walking into this wedding thinking about me, me, me and the only needs of me as a photographer, you're not in the right industry. I feel like I'm being too blunt, but it takes more than one person to make a wedding day happen. So if you can't get over yourself in your lane and not realize that you're one lane actually there's other lanes merging into your lane and not opening up a spot for them to merge into, then you're not going to be a good team player. And who's going to want to work with you. I'm going to be honest. You can have the be the most amazing photographer, beautiful work, but if you are difficult to work with, those, wedding pros are never going to recommend you to their couples. In fact, they may say, oh, that's your photographer.

Speaker 1 21:03

yeah, I'm out it's true, but and a wedding planner can sometimes wedding planners can be the same uh really difficult saying no. I told you that we are not going to be doing pictures at this time or this time. This is the only time that we're going to be. So it really is true. No matter what type of industry category that you fall into, if you are a difficult person to work with and you're not flexible and you can't see the bigger picture and you are not wanting to be a part of a dream team, then there you have no business being in the industry.

Speaker 1 21:39

The end, like there is no way that that is a good reflection of what the wedding industry is supposed to be like. You know, I know that all three of us, as wedding planners, have had those weddings where we have some of the greatest wedding professionals that were hired by those couples and it feels magical and it feels so warm and so inviting, and where we all we have to do is look at the wedding pro and they're like, yep, no, I totally read your mind, I got you. And then they go and do what you were thinking inside of your head, which was amazing. That is. That's priceless.

Speaker 2 22:18

It literally gives me chills like oh, we are killing it.

Promoting Collaboration Among Wedding Professionals

Speaker 1 22:24

Look at us, look at us. But then you've we've all worked those weddings where it didn't go so right because we were working with someone who was and lives in their engaged ego. Right when it is their way, or no way. Where it's, I'm the only wedding pro that matters, and you know what. That's never going to work, and you're now ensuring that it's not going to be a seamless and wonderful experience for all.

Speaker 1 22:55

You're only thinking about yourself, and so, whether you're the photographer or the planner, in this case, we have got to do better. We have got to show up for one another and stop being so rigid and let's work together, let's collaborate, because I, as a wedding planner, just like you, chrissy, and just like you, aisha, we as wedding planners want to make sure that we understand what our photographer needs, why our photographer needs them, and then, when I'm talking to clients that we share, I can go ahead and express all of that and go ahead and infuse those needs right into the timeline and educate the couple on what it is that you, as a photographer, are looking for, and so that you don't have to do all of that extra work, you can just concentrate on being that creative, and so it's we need to do better working with one another. A hundred percent.

Speaker 3 23:47

I agree with you, Lori, and to your point of whether it's the photographer or the planner not feeling like they have to do all the work. Sometimes there are cases where those photographers show up to weddings and there is no planner. So in their mind they created this timeline and so they have to then be the planner, they have to then orchestrate the day, and that's just. It's minimal compared to what wedding planners can do, if you, if there was one you know for for the wedding day. So I think to your point as well, we need to just make sure that we're working with our clients and educating them both alike planners, photographers, whatever other wedding professionals. You need a photographer, you need a planner, you need like, just root for one another.

Speaker 1 24:42

Let's say that for the people that didn't hear in the back root for one another, and ask all of your wedding, your wedding clients, to have you hired this category. Have you hired this category? And for all of the wedding planners, this is already the natural thing, because that's our part of our job is to go ahead and outfit our couples with the perfect wedding pros. Then we curate that special team. But it's not. It doesn't seem as natural for photographers and bakers and caterers and florists to say who's your wedding planner, because what they need to remember is how much they cannot stand planning or doing weddings on wedding day when there's no planner and they're having to pick up all this extra slack. When there is a wedding planner or a wedding coordinator, we are there to do all of that stuff that nobody else has to do, so that you can actually focus on your job. So, yes, we need to be rooting for one another and referring one another just as much.

Speaker 2 25:41

So, yeah, I mean a thousand percent, and I know some of the wedding pros. They know those wedding planners who are also not team players so if you're not thinking who your wedding planner is and they say, oh, I don't have.

Speaker 2 25:54

Guess what. That provides you the opportunity to do. Oh, let me recommend the planner who you love working with, who you know makes your job easier. Start having these conversations with the couples who hire you. That way it could just be a win-win all around. Like y'all know how much fun we have when we're working together with our dream team. We can have that every single weekend. If you guys just ask who your wedding planner is and then you recommend me, that's it.

Speaker 3 26:21

Then call me.

Speaker 1 26:25

Exactly, and you know, like for, for instance, on wedding days like Chrissy, you just had a wedding this past weekend and it was excruciatingly hot. Well, guess what Chrissy does? She brings coolers of water and things like that. Well, if Chrissy hadn't shown up, there'd be no coolers of water. Wedding planners think of all these ridiculously stupid tiny details. But they're a photographer, a DJ, baker, whatever category in the wedding industry that you fall into. Please make sure that you are recommending solid, dependable, reliable, passionate, moral and ethical wedding planners, because that is going to make a difference for everybody. It's going to allow the couples to have a great day. It's going to allow all the other wedding professionals that were hired for this wedding have a great day. It is just incredibly important, so I'm glad that you brought that up.

Industry Collaboration for Wedding Professionals

Speaker 3 27:19

Keep in mind all of our listeners out there, all of our wedding pros. The goal is to work smarter, not harder. Yes, thank you so much, ladies, for joining me and discussing this very important topic. This was a great, great chat. Wedding pros, as we bring this month's episode to a close, I'd like to leave you with an inspirational quote to keep you all encouraged in this very demanding wedding industry. It's a quote by branding expert and author, simon Mainwaring, and it reads effectively change is almost impossible without the industry, wide collaboration, cooperation and consensus. Wedding pros, keep this in mind as we set out to change this industry for the better. Thank you.

Speaker 1 28:00

Aisha, and thank you all for listening to the Wedding Pro Podcast. If you're not yet a member of the CWP Society, we have memberships that are for all wedding pros. That's our free pro membership. We have our premium membership and we have our certified membership. So check out our website today to learn more CWPSocietycom. We would love to welcome you into our amazing and loving family. I hope all of you have a great day. We'll see you next time, thank you.