Thinking Through the Faith Advisors to President Trump

GUEST: VIRGIL WALKER, Teaching Pastor, Redeemer Bible Church (Gilbert, AZ) 

Kings, rulers, emperors, prime ministers, and presidents always surrounded themselves with advisors so they can hear what they consider to be the most informed perspectives of domestic and foreign policy. In our day, this would be the president’s cabinet with the heads of the various government agencies.

Most rulers throughout history have also surrounded themselves with spiritual or religious advisors in the hope that they will receive wisdom from those closest to God, or in idolatrous nations, from those who worship false gods. The Egyptian Pharaoh had his wise men, sorcerers, and magicians who provided counsel and performed their “secret arts.” The kings of Judah and Israel were always surrounded by prophets and priests in order to know God’s will.

And that’s the critical point—knowing God’s will only comes from those who genuinely know God. Just like the broad way that leads to the destruction and the narrow way that leads to eternal life, most who spiritually advise rulers will be like the false prophets of Ahab telling the king what he wants to hear while few will be brave enough to speak the true Word of God.

Enter the modern day and President Trump’s White House Faith Office, an advisory board of religious leaders selected by the president led by the well-known charismatic pastor and televangelist Paula White-Cain. White-Cain teaches the health, wealth, and prosperity false gospel and it influences how she leads the Faith Office.

There are other more sound Christian pastors and leaders like Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, and Franklin Graham, evangelist and head of Samaritan’s Purse. These men are in a testing position—how to be faithful when there is compromise all around?

Virgil Walker, pastor, author, writer, and podcast host, will join us this weekend to help us think through the spiritual influences on President Trump. Because how the President sees himself and how he makes decisions will be in part, perhaps in large part, influenced by who those have his ear.

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Transcript

Thinking Through the Faith Advisors to President Trump with Guest: Virgil Walker

SATURDAY, April 11, 2026 at 8:00am CT

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 00:08
Thinking Through the Faith Advisors to President Trump. That is a topic we'll discuss today on The Christian Worldview Radio program, where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host. 

The Christian Worldview is a nonprofit, listener-supported radio ministry. Our website is The ChristianWorldview.org, and the rest of our contact information will be given throughout today's program. As always, thank you for your notes of encouragement, financial support, and lifting us up in prayer. 

Kings, rulers, emperors, prime ministers, and presidents have always surrounded themselves with advisors so they can hear what they consider to be the most informed perspectives on domestic and foreign policy. In our day, this would be the president's cabinet and the heads of the various government agencies. Now, most rulers throughout history have also surrounded themselves with spiritual or religious advisors in the hope that they will receive wisdom from those they deem closest to God, or in idolatrous nations from those who worship false gods. Think of the Egyptian Pharaoh who had his wise men or sorcerers or magicians, as they're called, who provided counsel and performed their quote secret arts. 

The kings of Judah and Israel were always surrounded by prophets and priests in order to know God's will. And that's the critical point. Knowing God's will only comes from those who genuinely know God. You may remember in 1 Kings chapter 22 in the Old Testament how Ahab, king of Israel, and Jehoshaphat, king of Judah, were planning to join forces to wage war against the king of Aram. Before doing so, Ahab brought in his prophets, his spiritual advisors, 400 in number, to inquire whether they would be successful in this war. All the prophets said, "Go up, for the Lord will give it into the hand of the king." King Jehosaphat wasn't convinced. And so he asked Ahab, "Is there not yet a prophet of the Lord here that we may inquire of him? The king of Israel, Ahab, said to Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man by whom we may inquire of the Lord, but I hate him, because he does not prophesy good concerning me, but evil. He is Micaiah, son of Imlah." Micaiah was a faithful prophet of God, and when he was brought in before the kings, he told them not to go to war with Aram. Otherwise, Israel would be scattered and King Ahab would be killed. This enraged Ahab, who then put Micaiah in prison and went to war anyway, only to suffer exactly what the prophet had revealed from God. Israel lost and Ahab was killed. And so here's the point. Just like the broad way that leads to destruction and the narrow way that leads to eternal life, most who spiritually advise rulers will be like the false prophets of Ahab, telling the king what he wants to hear, while few in number will be brave enough to speak the true word of God. 

Enter the modern day in President Trump's White House Faith Office, which is an advisory board of religious leaders selected by the President, led by the well-known charismatic pastor and televangelist Paula White-Cain. According to the Bible, in 1 Timothy chapter two and three in Titus   one, Paula White-Cain should not be a pastor, as that role is reserved for only qualified men. What's more, her background, twice divorced, three times married, along with a relationship with fellow married health, wealth, and prosperity preacher Benny Hinn, that he described as inappropriate. This background is disqualifying, even if it were a male pastor. As for her teaching, this audio clip of her pretty much sums up her errant beliefs.

AUDIO SOUNDBITE: Paula White-Cain: 04:28
And I believe that when you honor God on Passover, starting on April 12th at sundown through Good Friday on the 18th, and concluding on Easter Sunday, you can receive these seven supernatural blessings for you and your house, according to Exodus 23. God will assign an angel to you, he'll be an enemy to your enemies, he'll give you prosperity, he'll take sickness away from you, he will give you long life, he'll bring increase in inheritance, and he'll give a special year blessing. You're not doing this to get something, but you're doing it in honor to God, realizing what you can receive.

AUDIO SOUNDBITE: Paula White-Cain Advertisement: 05:05
For your special Passover offering of $1,000 or more as the Holy Spirit leads, you will also receive the beautiful 10-inch Waterford Crystal Cross. Don't miss your moment to release seven supernatural blessings and provision into your life.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 05:19
So what'd you just hear? God will assign an angel to you, He'll give you prosperity, take sickness away, you'll have a long life, you'll get an increase in your inheritance, and you'll get a special year of blessing. This is a grave perversion of God's Word and the gospel. Now, I don't know Paula White-Cain personally, but anyone who purports to be a Christian pastor and flagrantly misrepresents God and His Word and the Christian life like that is a false teacher and shouldn't be anywhere near leadership in a church or serve as the lead spiritual advisor to the President of the United States. 

And you'll see how her false doctrine manifests itself in her recent message to the president in a soundbite coming up on the program. Now, to be sure, the White House faith office doesn't start and end with Paula White-Cain, however. There are other more sound Christian pastors and leaders like Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, and Franklin Graham, evangelist and head of Samaritan's Purse. These men, however, are in a testing position—how to be faithful when there is compromise all around them? Virgil Walker, pastor, author, writer, and the co-host of the Just Thinking podcast, joins us today to help us think through the spiritual influences on President Trump. Because how the President sees himself and how he makes decisions will be in part, perhaps in large part, influenced by these advisors who have his ear. And so this past Crucifixion Friday, President Trump released this message.

AUDIO SOUNDBITE: President Donald Trump
This holy week, I'm proud to join with Christians across the country and around the world to celebrate the most glorious miracle in all of time, the resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. In His life, Christ displayed true humility. In His death, He modeled true love. And in His resurrection from the tomb, He proved that even death itself will not silence those who place their trust in Almighty God. As it says in the Gospel of John, for God so loved the world that he gave His only Son, for whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. Eternal life, such beautiful words. 

This Easter, millions of Christians all over the globe will be reminded that because of what Jesus did on the cross, all of us can live every day with hope in God's promise, knowing that in the end, evil and wickedness will not prevail. In the spirit of joy and renewal this Easter, we also celebrate the extraordinary resurrection of faith and religion in America. As I have often said, to be a great nation, you must have religion, and you must have God. In churches across the nation on Sunday, the pews will be fuller, younger, and more faithful than they have at any time in many, many years. Religion is growing again in our country for the first time in decades. Happy Easter to all. May God bless you. May God bless the United States of America. Our country is doing so well like never before. Thank you.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 08:45
Now, listening to that, there is much for Christians to rejoice in, hearing our president reading Scripture and proclaiming truth about Jesus Christ. Now, yes, religion in general isn't pleasing to God because there's lots of false workspace religion. God desires true religion in spirit and in truth according to His Word. But this is far better than, let's say, the last president, Joe Biden, declaring Easter Sunday to be the transgender day of visibility. You remember that? 

Still, President Trump, as we all know, can cause heartburn for Christians who support many of his policies, but who can be just turned off by his harsh words and manner. So that's where we're going to start with Virgil Walker and then get into the President's faith advisors. 

Virgil, thank you for coming on The Christian Worldview Radio program today. We just heard the Good Friday message by President Trump. Two days later on Resurrection Sunday, he says this in a tweet. He said, "Tuesday will be Power Plant Day and Bridge Day, all wrapped up into one in Iran. There will be nothing like it. Open the [expletive] Strait, you crazy [expletive], or you'll be living in hell. Just watch. Praise be to Allah." President Donald J. Trump. So that was pretty shocking for a lot of people to read on Easter Sunday. And then a couple of days later, as if that weren't enough, he tweeted this was the day there was a deadline. He says, "A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I don't want that to happen, but it probably will. However, now that we have complete and total regime change where different, smarter, and less radicalized minds prevail, maybe something revolutionary, wonderful can happen. Who knows? We will find out tonight." 

Virgil, over these tweets from our president, there was all kinds of consternation and repudiation from lots of different angles, not just from the left. They hate every one of his tweets, but also from some of his supporters and Christians just saying this is just vulgar, this is civilization-ending type threats to people in the Middle East. How should a Christian process just the way the president speaks in this regard?

GUEST: VIRGIL WALKER: 11:10
I think it's a great question and it's a great opportunity to think through what's taking place and how we can categorize what's happening and then respond to those categories. And so I think on the one end, I'll start out by saying there are many things that can be true all at the same time. For example, the president can have a tweet that's more targeted toward a specific audience than it is the Christian audience or the evangelical audience, right? 

I tend to think, based upon what I know about Trump, that this tweet was targeted to his enemies, right? It's definitely not targeted to Christian believers at home enjoying Easter Sunday, right? This is absolutely targeted toward his enemies. And so Trump engages with those enemies in very frank terms and in very tough talk, the goal of which is to elicit from them an understanding that he says what he means, he means what he says, and that he's not making promises that he won't follow through on. That can be true. What also can be true is that this is not the kind of talk  A) that we should have from a president, nor should we have from anyone who claims to be Christian. And I'm of the mindset that, you know, Trump's not necessarily a Christian, but as someone who is the leader of the free world, as someone who is representing a Christian nation as he has proclaimed America to be, this is not the kind of thing that we want said from our president or representative of a Christian nation. 

Third thing, and here's another category for you. I think believers have not just a right, but a responsibility to repudiate this kind of language and this type of approach. Unfortunately, there have been some who are Christians, Christian leaders, who have abdicated that responsibility, who have neglected to say this is reprehensible language that we don't expect our president to have. Why have they done that? Well, they've done that in no small part because of the fact that they now have a seat at the table. They have that seat at the table at the behest of President Trump. And so as a result, they won't at least publicly say anything about his public statements that run counter to the Christian worldview that he purports to want to promote. 

I mean, this is definitely emblematic in leaders like Paula White, who I know we'll discuss here in a bit, but no one would be willing to say anything to him or about this or tweet something that says, hey, this is not language becoming of our president, or perhaps there was a different way, or maybe say something in private to him as it relates to how he speaks about these issues. So again, I've placed these things in particular categories. Placing them in those categories helps us see things clearly, but it doesn't require of us as Christians to function differently about the categories. It's simply a way for us to identify what's happening, know with clarity what's happening, and then respond in the most biblical way possible.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 13:58
There were lots of ways he could have communicated very threatening, dire circumstances in a different way than he said it. You think of some different leaders who were really strong, maybe even a Ronald Reagan, who would have said something and it would have communicated the same thing, but in a very different way. So well said, Virgil, thank you for helping us think through that. 

From the very beginning, when Trump came down that escalator in New York, when he started running for president, evangelical Christians supporting this man or being associated with him are accused of ruining their Christian witness. Despite the fact that Trump promotes many policies that Christians largely approve of, he's largely pro-life, at least. He's pro-law and order, pro-borders for our country, and so forth. But his personality, this is what people refer to, is boastful, it's narcissist, it's vulgar, as we read about in that post. It's ruthless. You probably remember the tweet he did after former FBI director Robert Moeller had died. I don't know if you read that when he said, "Good, I'm glad he's dead. He can no longer hurt innocent people." President Donald J. Trump. So he's a tough dude. This question's been around for a long time, but now that you've seen him in office for one term and now into a second, do you think Christians supporting Donald Trump actually alienates unbelievers from coming to saving faith?

GUEST: VIRGIL WALKER: 15:23
I don't. I think the fact that most unbelievers just hate God is what keeps them from coming to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Trump may be an excuse or Trump may be a scapegoat for them to point to to say, hey, I'd never become a Christian because of that. But ultimately, we know that those who are not in Christ are in a state that they're dead in their sin and trespasses. They love their sin. They hate God. And so they'll look for any excuse not to bow the knee, repent of sin, and place their full faith in Jesus Christ. 

At the same time, I do think that Christians have a responsibility. And I mentioned this earlier. We've abdicated a lot of our responsibility to be a prophetic voice in the culture, to say what's true, what's right, what's good, regardless of the "D" or the "R" beside the name of the person that's saying it. We've abdicated that responsibility, particularly as it relates to Trump, because we we to the point you made earlier, we like his policies. We like what we see. And the alternative is reprehensible to us. We have a tendency to say little to nothing at all. We may say something at church or with friends, or hey, I didn't like that, but we won't publicly articulate our disdain, our dislike, pushback against what it is he's saying. And I think these things are important as they come up to address publicly. I'm coming on the show here to talk about it here with you, to say that language is reprehensible. Those kinds of things that he's saying are not becoming of a President of the United States. And definitely for those of us who are Christian who believe that there's a more charitable way in which we should interact and talk about any subject, particularly as it retains to people and their civilization.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 16:58
You're not saying at the same time that it's wrong for a Christian to vote for someone like this, obviously, because there's really only two choices that are viable in any given major election like that in America. And as you mentioned, the other side is so extremely God-rejecting in their policies. 

Virgil Walker is our guest today. We have links to his writing on Substack and the Just Thinking podcast that he co-hosts at our website, TheChristian Worldview.org. He's also been published in The Christian Worldview Journal. After this short break, we will discuss the faith advisors to President Trump, starting with the head of the office, Paula White Kane. I'm David Wheaton. You are listening to the Christian Worldview Radio program

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HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 19:09
 Welcome back to The Christian Worldview. I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit TheChristian Worldview.org where you can sign up for our weekly email and The Christian Worldview Journal print publication, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry. 

Our topic today is thinking through the faith advisors to President Trump. And our guest is Virgil Walker, teaching pastor at Redeemer Bible Church in Gilbert, Arizona, and co-host of the Just Thinking podcast. Virgil, let's talk about who is advising President Trump, specifically from a spiritual standpoint. Paula White-Cain, commonly known as Paula White, she is the senior advisor to the White House Faith Office. She's a Pentecostal pastor, very well-known televangelist author, longtime advisor to President Trump. And according to the internet, she serves in this role as a special government employee. Didn't know that, and is widely regarded as the primary figure heading this office. They had a recent gathering during this war in Iran with a number of those in this faith office. And she spoke, and I won't play the whole thing here, but let me just play a portion where she made a very interesting comparison to the life and times of Donald Trump, and I'll follow up with you with a question.

AUDIO SOUNDBITE: Paula White-Cain: 21:12
And I just wanted to share this thought and then pray over President Trump. Jesus taught us so many lessons through his death, burial, and resurrection. He showed us great leadership, great transformation requires great sacrifice. And Mr. President, no one has paid the price like you have paid the price. It almost cost you your life. You were betrayed and arrested and falsely accused. It's a familiar pattern that our Lord and Savior showed us. But it didn't end there for him, and it didn't end there for you. God always had a plan. On the third day, he rose, he defeated evil. He conquered death, hell, and the grave. And because he rose, we all know that we can rise. And sir, because of his resurrection, you rose up. Because he was victorious, you were victorious. And I believe that the Lord said to tell you this because of his victory, you will be victorious in all you put your hand to. Amen. Because God is with you and God is using you to defeat evil, to restore families, to awaken the church, to harvest the nations, and to bring a worldwide revival. So I'm going to ask something. Would you all stand and just, if you're comfortable, stretch your hand towards our president. And even if uh Reverend Graham, you'd like to lay hands on him and Pastor Robert.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 22:50
Okay, I'll stop it there. She went on to pray, and standing behind her was President Trump and Franklin Graham and Robert Jeffress. Some of the things she said, Virgil, like comparing Donald Trump to Jesus Christ in Christ's death and burial and resurrection. And then saying, Because of Christ's resurrection, you rose up President Trump. Because he was victorious, you were victorious. And then she said, The Lord said to tell you this as if she's getting direct revelation from God, you will be victorious too. And that God is using you to awaken the church, to harvest the nations, to bring worldwide revival. So you can see how her word of faith, prosperity, gospel beliefs saturate her worldview. And you can see why Trump likes her. She makes him feel good about himself. So what are your thoughts on Paula White being the main spiritual advisor to President Trump? And how should the other Christian leaders there, Franklin Graham and Robert Jeffress, perhaps others, operate on a faith advisory board led by her?

GUEST: VIRGIL WALKER: 24:03
We've abdicated responsibility for a seat at the table. We've forfeited our prophetic voice for whatever we think we're going to gain by being in the inner circle with Trump. Now, with regard to this particular position, the representative of the faith office, I think that's problematic just from a standpoint of the question of what faith are we representing? Is it the biblical faith that we all hold dear, or is it the prosperity gospel and some of the heretical messaging that's come out of and from Paula White? I don't say this as an outsider. I say this as someone who was very involved at one point in my life in the prosperity gospel, only to come out of that and see its error and the issues related to it that were problematic. That the goal of it is really to seek what you can get from God rather than recognizing that God's already given you eternal life through his son Jesus Christ. 

That our focus in the prosperity gospel is temporal thing, cars, houses, monies, land. And more than anything, we're seeking the benefit of what we can get from God in a temporal sense rather than understanding what He has done for us related to eternity. There were so many things that she said in that brief segment that you played. We could actually do an entire show on that brief segment. I had to quickly grab a pen and write some things down. She mentioned how the cross of Christ provided for us "lessons in leadership". That's a drastic dumbing down of what the cross of Christ actually provided for us. The cross of Christ was everything related to God's wrath being poured out on His son on our behalf. Those who owed a debt to God we could not repay, He paid on our behalf. And as a result of the grace expressed in that transaction, we inherit eternal life through the sacrifice of His son, through the repentance of our sin and placing our faith in the full finished work of Jesus Christ. That's the magnitude of what took place. That is the high point of all of human history. And for you to dumb that down, for you to minimize that to some "lesson in leadership" is utterly just stupefying. It's unbelievable. 

And then for you to connect it then to a temporal man, I can only imagine, I would only hope, I wasn't in the room, that as Trump heard this comparison, that he was squirming in his seat, trying to avoid a lightning bolt that would hit the room, that he would be equated in any way, shape, or form to the magnitude of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. That's the nature of evangelicalism, unfortunately, these days, where we minimize what God did, what Christ did through some pragmatic, practical thing that we think is kind of cute to say, that's that's affirming to a world leader. We should think a whole lot more of Christ than was actually presented in that. A lot more that I could say. Like I said, we could have literally played that clip and exegeted it, right? Gone section by section to unpack the problematic aspects of what she said and how it was a dumbing down of what Christ did on the cross.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 27:07
Well, even saying something to do with "God put you in office to be able to bring revival to the whole world." You wonder, Virgil, how does someone like Franklin Graham or Robert Jeffress, who must identify that right away, how do they operate in that context? I guess you would hope they would be talking to her behind the scenes, but Robert Jeffress, listen to him on the radio from time to time, appreciate some of his preaching. But he did endorse Paula White's book, Something Greater, Finding Triumph Over Trials. And I know they're in a they're in a difficult situation. They want to be there to advise the President, but how do you walk that line in that sort of situation?

GUEST: VIRGIL WALKER: 27:46
Here's what we've done, sadly. We have embraced the idea of what we know, what we "believe", and we've divorced it from how we live. And that's the big part of the problem in the whole of Western civilization. We know what's right. We can even tell you what's right. But living that out, we begin to recognize has a cost. And too few of us are willing to pay that cost. Or we've examined the cost of it and said, well, you know what? I think I'll be better off having the opportunity to say this in the ear of a President than taking the stand that perhaps I should in this context. I would hope that behind the scenes something was said to Paula White, at least about this. And if it were me and I were them, I would have issued some kind of a statement if I disagreed with her. I would have said, you know, hey, I was there. I appreciate Paula, what she said, but I have to disagree and then address the comparison. There are ways to navigate that. 

Listen, I don't assume to know the mind of these men. They've accomplished far more than I ever have. So it's due to that that I don't try to place myself in their mind and say, hey, this is what they were thinking, or even to the degree that I'm saying, hey, this is what should have been done. They've got to make those decisions themselves. I know what I have done historically when I've been asked to be in a position of compromise like that. I've removed myself from those compromising situations, interactions, to the best of my ability. Or I've made people aware that I won't be able to be there. I won't be able to participate. I won't be able to come. 

And so again, I've heard the arguments from the other side. Hey, Paula White's done more in this way, shape, or form than others have. And that's fine. That's more pragmatism. And then that at the end of the day is on sinking sand. What we've got to do is we've got to do what's right because it's right, even when it costs us something, especially when it costs us something. And again, I don't proclaim to have done this perfectly, but I would hope as opportunities present themselves, I would consistently land on saying what's right, doing what's right, living out what's right and true, rather than participating in something like this.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 29:47
These men who are more solid want to be there to be able to influence the president in the right way, sort of like a Daniel did in Babylon, right? They want to be that person, and yet there is such a stew of all this different ideologies and beliefs and so forth. And it's just hard because it can compromise your witness as well.

So I guess you need to pray for the solid men there that they would know how to navigate it, just as you were saying. And by the way, we're not talking about this to criticize anyone standing there on the council. It's just thinking through what that would be like because we'll often be put in that situation, not necessarily with the President of the United States, but in a different situation at work or somewhere on a city council, on the school board, uh, with people who are very have very different worldviews or beliefs than we do.

GUEST: VIRGIL WALKER: 30:33
I just want to interject. I think what you said there is critical. Long before the day comes when you're standing next to a Paula White or standing in a compromised position, you've got to think through the scenarios that you could potentially be in and how you're going to respond. It's not the day of, it's not when you walk out that you're going to come to some epiphany about how to respond in that given situation. You have got to think through that long before the position, the opportunity, the situation presents itself. I think that's what's critical.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 31:01
Okay, one more piece of audio from that particular event at the White House with the faith leaders. This one is a prayer by Franklin Graham, where he equates Trump to Queen Esther in the Old Testament, who saved the Jews from the genocidal plot of Haman in Persia, which is modern-day Iran.

AUDIO SOUNDBITE: Franklin Graham: 31:21
Let us pray. Father, you tell us in the book of Esther that the Persians, the Iranians, were wanting to kill every Jew, woman, child, and do it all in one day. But you raised up Esther to save the Jewish people. Father, we thank you. Today, the Iranians, the wicked regime of the of this government wants to kill every Jew and destroy them with an atomic fire. But you have raised up President Trump. You've raised him up for such a time as this. And Father, we pray that you'll give him victory. Father, we pray for a military that You would  watch over and protect them. Father, we pray for the people of Iran who want freedom to be set free from these  Islamic lunatics. Father, we thank you for your son Jesus Christ, who came to this earth to take our sins, that He died and shed His blood on a cross for our sins, that He was buried, He took our sins to the grave, but you raised Him to life. And Father, we thank you and we praise you and we give you the glory. Father, protect President Trump. We pray this in Jesus' name. Amen.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 33:01
Okay, Virgil, powerful prayer by Franklin Graham, especially with regard to proclaiming who Christ is and what He did. Again, with President Trump standing right there, very good. And Trump, like all leaders, it says in Romans 13, is put in place by God. But what about comparing Esther in ancient times, saving the Jews who were in Persia from extermination with Trump attacking the Islamic Iranian regime today to save modern-day Jews from Iran's death to Israel mission?

GUEST: VIRGIL WALKER: 33:40
Let's stop doing this. Like let's stop abusing the text of Scripture for political points. I get that you're in a situation, you're in an environment where you want to say something profound or to sound prophetic or to make a statement or to heighten the sense of importance as it relates to a specific situation. But drawing a text of Scripture that was never designed to be speaking about President Trump or issues of our day, it doesn't help anyone. It really doesn't. It actually muddies the water, it confuses things, and really, it's got an entire generation of people thinking about our current situations, our current day-to-day headlines in ways that we shouldn't. 

Every headline that we see today is not directly connected to something that happened in the Old Testament or even the New Testament for that matter. We can just take it at face value for what it is and pray accordingly. I see what took place there as just a desire, perhaps on the part of Franklin Graham, to say something powerful, prophetic, to make a connection that he should not be making. It's not helpful.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 34:46
Okay, so I hear your caution is don't take a modern-day event like the war with Iran and equate it with a biblical event that occurred thousands of years ago. And especially give President Trump the notion that he's God's agent on behalf of the Jewish people. After all, this administration never mentions the security of Israel and the Jews for why the U.S. went to war with Iran. They've tried to avoid that because the U.S. is always being accused of doing the bidding of Israel. The justification has been from the beginning that Iran has a history of attacking U.S. targets and developing weapons that can strike our European allies and eventually the United States. 

So we should be very cautious about making these kinds of modern day to biblical times comparisons. Our desire should be to see and say things as God does. And if there's no clear comparison, and there never is with Christ's work on the cross, it's just better to leave things unsaid. All right, we'll take a short break, and next, Virgil Walker will discuss another faith advisor, Pastor Doug Wilson. This time not to President Trump, but to Secretary of War Pete Hegseth. 

So stay tuned for our final segment coming up. I'm David Wheaton, and you are listening to The Christian Worldview Radio program. 

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HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 37:36
Today's program and past programs, along with transcripts and short takes, are available at TheChristianWorldview.org. While there, you can also sign up for our weekly email and The Christian Worldview Journal print publication, order resources, and support the ministry. Our topic today is thinking through the faith advisors to President Trump. 

And our guest is Virgil Walker, teaching pastor at Redeemer Bible Church in Gilbert, Arizona, and co-host of the Just Thinking Podcast. Now, this next soundbite has to do with a faith advisor, but not one to Donald Trump, but rather to Secretary of War Pete Hegseth. Apparently, he is very associated with Doug Wilson, who is the head of Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho. This is part of the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches, or CREC is the acronym for it. Doug Wilson is sound on many things, I think just on the gospel and so forth, but in the scale of Christian nationalism, and I think almost every Christian is a Christian nationalist to some degree. It's just where do you go along that scale? Doug Wilson has a very aggressive stance toward that and believes that we're here to Christianize society. He was interviewed recently about what he envisions this Christian society would look like and what religious expressions will be allowed or not allowed. 

AUDIO SOUNDBITE: Doug Wilson: 39:44
Could Muslims uh be here? Live yes, they could be. Uh could they hold political office? No. Could Muslims gather together uh with their Muslim family and friends to pray to Allah? Yes. Right? Could you have a mosque? Yes. Could they have a minaret, a prayer tower that issues a public call to prayer? No. Because the public spaces belong to Christ. Right? We're a Christian nation. So church bells are okay. Church bells are okay, but a a Muslim call to prayer in the public space would not be okay. Um Catholic church bells would be okay, but a parade in honor of the Virgin Mary carrying an image of the Virgin Mary down Main Street, no. Right? Public uh displays of idolatry, what pro the Protestant foundation of the law would consider to be idolatry, would not be allowed. So you wouldn't have a Hindu procession of a with a Hindu god, you wouldn't have a procession of the Virgin Mary.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 40:46
All right, Virgil. There's a strong view of Christian nationalism articulated by Pastor Doug Wilson, who is a spiritual advisor to Pete Hegseth. And as for Secretary of War Hegseth, he recently said this about the rescue of the downed Pilate over Iran.

AUDIO SOUNDBITE: Pete Hegseth: 41:05
In that moment of isolation and danger, his faith and fighting spirit shone through. You see, shot down on a Friday, good Friday, hidden in a cave, a crevice all of Saturday, and rescued on Sunday, flown out of Iran as the sun was rising on Easter Sunday. A pilot reborn, all home and accounted for, a nation rejoicing. God is good.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 41:37
So you heard those two sound bites, Virgil, and you can see why heads are exploding on the left over their accusations of Christian nationalism. But do you think Doug Wilson's vision for a Protestant Christian society is beyond what the Founders envisioned, and really more about his eschatology of post-millennialism? And what do you make of Pete Hegseth's comment about the rescue of the downed airmen over Iran?

GUEST: VIRGIL WALKER: 42:08
I go back to what I started with, which is the importance of right categories, right? It is important for us to have proper categories and recognize the importance of that pilot going down, the importance of that pilot's rescue, the importance of the effort that went into saving him was huge. In fact, I listened to the briefing that went through all of the aspects of his rescue. They were phenomenal. The storyline alone was unbelievable. There were more than 141 aircraft that went into this downed airman's rescue. The history books will be told long after this event about what the United States did in an effort to grab him, to rescue him, to bring him back to safety. 

But even with that, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ blows that away by magnitudes that are infinite. And what Christ did on a cross for all of humanity is infinitely better than any rescue of a guy. And we applaud the rescue of the airmen. We're grateful for what took place. Let's honor it in its proper position and not elevate it beyond what we should for, I don't know what for, for political points or to pull the heartstrings of Americans? Which again, heartstrings should already be pulled. This is a man who's service to his country. He's down in a country, he's trying to be rescued. And all of what we had in every apparatus was sent to rescue him. And that was successfully done. That's sufficient. We don't have to try to elevate it beyond what it actually is. 

And as it pertains to the question you asked about mosques and all of that stuff, there's not much daylight, really, to me, between where I currently stand and where Doug Wilson stands on this particular issue. And I'll tell you the reason why. Anyone who's really done a deep dive and studied Orthodox Islam, recognize that it is not a religion, that Orthodox Islam is a political movement that people practice in religious ways. And when you understand that it is a conquering ideological, political, sociopolitical framework that uses religion and religious language and religious ideas and religious practice for the purpose of conquering lands, you then treat it in the same way that we would have treated communism back in the day. 

We wouldn't allow communists, the communist party to do any more than what our constitution allows, and wouldn't employ them to celebrate days and events and things like that and elevate communism to the degree that we would our democratic republic in those kinds of ways. We wouldn't. And I think it is imperative that more of us as Christians understand that what we're dealing with with Islamism has more to do with ideology, policy, politics, sociocultural dynamic of what they bring when they reach a certain number of them in our public square. Those are things we have to consider.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 45:08
I think you're 100% correct on Islam. I agree with the point because this is a conquering political ideology that's not compatible with our constitutional law. They believe in Sharia law. But what about he said, because Hegseth has been criticized, I guess, recently having some Christian gathering around Easter and Catholics felt they weren't invited? What are your thoughts on that element of it? Because Catholicism, we would consider it to be teaching a false gospel and false doctrines. But is this something that could be compatible in what Doug Wilson's envisioning for a Christian society?

GUEST: VIRGIL WALKER: 45:42
I'm not familiar with the context with what regard to what Pete did or didn't do. And again, I think it would depend upon the context. Do I think Catholicism is compatible with a Christian worldview, the Western civilized culture? Absolutely, right? Do I think it's a false gospel? That they believe that salvation is by works? Absolutely. Do I think they have the issue of justification wrong? Absolutely. 

I believe that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ according to Scripture to the glory of God alone. I would put an "alone" in front of each one of those things. The Catholic would not. The Council of Trent would say that if I said that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, that I am an anathema. So it is not me who's making the condemnation of Catholicism. It is Catholicism who's made it, I'm an anathema to the Catholic, based upon the declaration of the Council of Trent, which no one has nullified or said that is an error or wrong. So I don't see this as my angst toward them. It's rather theirs toward me. And if they want to make that distinction as a result, I gladly accept it.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 46:39
In the background of all this is going on, I think Christians hear some of the things we've talked about and that we're just pleased to even hear the name of God, the name of Jesus Christ, even though I think as we've been discussing today, we have to be very careful whether it's being abused or misapplied to a lot of things that are it's being applied to. We tend to rejoice in that because we came from an administration and we see the left in this country who is so anti-Christian and anti-God, vehemently so, that that is their foundation that where they're driven from is to be against God. They're rebels against God. And we saw this in the last administration, previous ones as well. 

But now it's become more prominent in government with some of our president making Easter proclamations instead of making it "The Transgender Day of Visibility" like President Biden did, all the different things that are taking place. Under the surface, though, we see all this wickedness still taking place. It's still on the march, the transgender lie, socialism. Here in Minneapolis, the Minneapolis City Council is promoting getting bathhouses back in this city. In other words, this more public proclamations of Christianity are not extinguishing the march of the left. It's almost like it's prepping them for revenge.

What do you think the dynamic in our country is taking place right now is if they get out of political power, what is it going to look like?

GUEST: VIRGIL WALKER: 48:06
What we're seeing, as you set up, is a battle between good and evil. It is a battle between Western civilization, and by that I mean a Christian Western civilization. Because everything that we have that we understand as freedom, as the rule of law, as the ideas that surround equity, ideas that surround uh taking care of the least of these, all of those ideas are Christian ideas. And we define who is the least of these based upon what Scripture has to say, not by the color of someone's skin or someone's sexual preference or proclivity. We understand we have categories like male and female. All of that comes from the Christianized West. 

And right now, humanism is endeavoring to overthrow that culture. And so if they are elected back into power, they're not going to stop that onslaught. They're going to try to continue that and to expedite it the best way they know how. That's what they're engaged in. That's the battle that we're engaged in. We have to see it in those clear terms, good and evil, not Democrat or Republican. And we have to be willing, even when we see a Republican do what is wicked or vile or vulgar, we have to be the church who stands with God in the light of truth based upon what Scripture has to say and make those proper declarations and proclamations about that truth. 

If we don't, if we put our light under a bushel, we're worthless. If we decide that we won't be salt as a result and we'll be good for nothing but to be thrown out and stumbled upon. We have to think about these things, think about them clearly. And the God we represent and the kingdom of which we're representatives of has a responsibility to speak up, to be loud, to be clear, and to march forward.

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 49:50
Virgil, I don't have another question after that last answer. So thank you so much for coming on The Christian Worldview Radio program today. You summed it up so well in these turbulent, sometimes confusing times that Christians are to stand firm, base our lives on the truth, speak clearly, think through the issues of our day from a biblical perspective. 

We appreciate you, Virgil, all you're doing to proclaim truth in the gospel. Thank you for coming on the program. All of God's best and grace to you. 

GUEST: VIRGIL WALKER: 50:17
Hey, thanks for having me. 

HOST: DAVID WHEATON: 50:20
Virgil Walker has been our guest today. If you missed any of the interview, you can hear it at TheChristianWorldview.org. We also have links to Virgil's work there. I highly recommend you frequent his writing page on Substack and listen to the Just Thinking podcast that he co-hosts with Darrell Harrison. All those links are at TheChristianWorldview.org. 

And while you're there, we encourage you to become a Christian Worldview partner. As a thank you, we will send you our print and digital publication, The Christian Worldview Journal. 

So here's a summary and some things to pray for from today's program. Let's rejoice when sound statements are made about God, Christ in the Bible, but also speak up when unbiblical references and comparisons are made. For example, Trump has not risen up, just like Christ has risen from the grave. Bad comparison. But pray for President Trump that he can be born again. That will not only change his vulgar, inappropriate tweets, but more importantly, will reconcile him to God for eternity. He's certainly around a lot of true believers and has heard the gospel. 

In fact, Trump posted a note he had received from Franklin Graham last year after Trump made the remark that he hopes his good deeds will earn him a place in heaven. I don't have time to read the note, but you can search for it online where Franklin Graham explains that salvation is by God's grace through faith in Christ's work and not our own works. And that is what President Trump needs to hear and believe. 

Pray also that a so-called pastor like Paula White-Cain doesn't have undue influence on Trump. She's dangerous in her doctrine. And it's dangerous for Trump to think he's something that he's not, like the righteous agent of God. Pray also for the other faith advisors like Franklin Graham and Robert Jeffress, that they would speak the truth and not compromise through either affirmation or association with those who are error on this faith advisory board. 

And pray that you and I would know how to be salt and light without compromise in our own lives with the unbelievers that we interact with. Colossians 4 says, "Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person." 

Thank you for joining us today on The Christian Worldview and for your support of this non-profit radio ministry. Until next time, "Think biblically, live accordingly, and stand firm." 

The mission of the Christian Worldview is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. We hope today's broadcast encouraged you toward that end. To hear a replay of today's program, order a transcript, or find out "What must I do to be saved?", go to TheChristianWorldview.org or call toll-free 1888-646-2233. The Christian Worldview is a listener-supported, non-profit radio ministry furnished by The Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, order resources, become a Christian Worldview partner, sign up for our weekly email, or The Christian Worldview Journal print publication, or to contact us, go to TheChristianWorldview.org, call 1888 646 2233, or write to box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Thanks for listening to The Christian Worldview.