Elevator Pitch Tips, Resume Optimization, and Upskilling for Your First or Next Shift With Ali Simon and JoDee Scissors

You’ve made the big career shift. Now what do you do? Are you done shifting or are there more pivots in your future? Today, we’re talking about just that!

In this episode, Ali and JoDee sit down to talk about Ali’s latest career pivot. They pull back the curtain on crafting a winning resume, the value of professional advice, and
the undeniably transformative experience of each job interview.

You’ll hear more about:

• Ali’s favorite job search strategies, resume optimization, and upskilling
• Why an effective elevator pitch is invaluable when making a career transition
• Investing in hiring a coach or expert to guide you through the resume and interview process
• Why getting more certifications or degrees shouldn’t be the top priority when make a career shift
• And more!

Links mentioned in this episode:
Hiring Our Heroes
MySECO
LinkedIn
Jennifer Jeansonne
JAJ Consults

Screen Deep
A podcast decoding young brains and behavior in a digital world.

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Connect with Ali and JoDee:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teachershift
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teachershift
Teacher Shift LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/teacher-shift
Ali’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisimon/
JoDee’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodeescissors/

Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/

Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog

Chapters

• 12:14 [Ad] Screen Deep
• 12:52 (Cont.) Elevator Pitch Tips, Resume Optimization, and Upskilling for Your First or Next Shift With Ali Simon and JoDee Scissors

Transcript

Ali  0:06  
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning, who am I, if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Ali Simon.

JoDee  0:29  
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.

Ali  0:32  
And this is Teacher Shift.

JoDee  0:43  
You've done it. You made the big shift from the classroom. But now what?Are you done shifting? Today, I'm talking with Ali about her newest career move, how she got there, and why you need a perfect pitch for every shift. 

JoDee  1:00
It's always a little weird when we don't have a guest.

Ali  1:04 
I know it's funny because we're used to interviewing other people. But like I prefer, I think to be the inner of the interviewee. So I think I'm, it's just as weird for me today.

JoDee  1:16
I think in the past, we've been in person, maybe when we recorded together. So this is a little bit different for us. That's true. So we have a little bit of news to share with everyone today, because Ali has made some big moves lately. And we're going to learn about a little bit of a career move that she has made recently. So you all have heard why Ali and I have left the classroom. You've heard about our experiences. And how Ali and I, in a park on a playground, we found common ground and connected with each other because we both made a shift out of teaching. And we talked about teacher value, how to apply and how to find our place in a world outside of the classroom. And so just because we've made that shift, it doesn't mean that the shifts are always over because we are always looking to grow. We're always looking for the next thing to help us in our career. And Ali's made some really tough decisions lately, and done a lot of preparation for a shift that she needed or wanted to make. We'll find out what it is. So I'm excited because I'm so proud of Ali. If you guys know us, you know, after we are done recording, we always will FaceTime or chat just to kind of talk about each other's jobs and what we need to do and how we need to better ourselves. So today we're going to talk to Ali about a shift that she just made. So Ali, you shifted from the classroom, and you've made a couple of shifts outside of the classroom. And can you tell us about your most recent shift? And if it was a need or a want? Can you give us a little bit of background before we dive into some of the helpful tips for our listeners? 

Ali  3:10  
Yeah, so I think my job that I most recently had was tied to a grant that was about to sunset. So that means the grant was coming to an end. It was a four year grant. And I knew that that meant that I would be looking for new work. I loved working on the grant program. I loved my employer. But I didn't know if there would be another contract that I would be able to work on after that grant was finished. And like we talked about on the podcast a lot. Financial security is really important for people when they're transitioning, and my husband and I just made a big first time purchase as homebuyers, first time homebuyers. So it's really exciting, but also comes with a hefty mortgage payment. So I knew that I wanted to be employed. And I was really proactive I think, knowing that I had a time period where I was looking for employment. Actually very similar to teachers who might be looking to make a shift out of the classroom, you know that your contract is coming to an end at the end of this school year. And you want to be prepared with looking for a new job and being ready to jump into a new role. And so the impetus for my move was one, the grant that I was working on was sunsetting. But also it was that I was really enjoying the work that I was doing and I was ready to kind of take the next step of my career, maybe at a bigger company or a different type of program to manage. I didn't know exactly what that would be. And that's why I was I was searching. I was searching for new opportunities. 

JoDee  4:42  
What did that feel like when you knew you had to get out there again and start applying for jobs? 

Ali  4:49  
Well, I felt a little bit more comfortable I think than I did in previous shifts because I do are applying Thursday job posts. So I look at jobs every single week and I kind of had an idea of what was out there. I think for me what was the challenge is that I'm in the middle of relocating. And so I couldn't apply too early for jobs that would require hybrid, partially in the office and then partially working from home or remote, because I wasn't going to be in the area yet. And so I was nervous that if I got offered a job, but then I said, I won't be in the area for two more months, that I might not be able to take that job. So it was this weird thing where I was looking ahead of time, but then I couldn't look too far in advance. And then I also really wasn't sure... I think, you know, I wanted a hybrid role in many ways, because I missed that in person contact. You know, having having co workers in an office space. But I also have done really well with remote work. So I was open to staying remote, too. And so you know, I kind of had two options over the type of work that I was looking for. I knew that with our family lifestyle right now that being five days a week in person would not be a good option for me. So I did not seek any roles that would have required that. And so that really helped me limit my searches. And then the other thing that I started to do was I started being a little bit more active on LinkedIn. And that's something that I've heard from a lot of our guests. So maybe not active in the posting sense. But I started following companies that I would be interested in working for. And lo and behold, that's actually how I found out about this opportunity. It was through a LinkedIn posts that the company I will be working for shared.

JoDee  6:33  
There are a couple of things that you said. Your contract was sunsetting. I like the way that you phrased that because it's true. Like we you know, I have I'm a contract worker for with my clients as well. And sometimes, what I have to kind of put in my mind is that the work that I came here to do, I have done, and that project sunsets, and then I have to go look for another contract to fill wherever that contract filled in, in terms of like my work hours each week. So I love the way that you put that because it's true, like teachers have contracts that sunset. And sometimes you know, when the fiscal year comes around, you may not have the same population of students, you may not have the same allotment of teachers. And so there are unexpected shifts that teachers need to make because of a contract. So I also liked that you kind of put what exactly you were looking for and what was going to support your family's lifestyle. So you're sticking with remote, and you're able to find those opportunities because of how active you were on LinkedIn. And Ali, she does all our apply Thursday. And she's really, she does a really great job of curating those roles and reads through them very carefully, and is very thoughtful about, you know, the type of roles that we put out there as well as the the workplaces that are available to us. So thanks for sharing that. What did you do to prepare for this, this moment? You know, we talk about all of these tips and people share their stories and also offer tips. But I do feel like I'm a little bit more well versed in applying for jobs, for going out there because we do get a lot of information from experts or people that have experienced this type of change. And you know, every day when we're interviewing someone, it feels like I'm a little bit of a student, kind of like when you're a teacher you're always learning. Here on the podcast we're always learning to. So what did you do to seek help when you knew you had to start applying for jobs again?

Ali  6:33  
Yeah, so I definitely leaned into some of the guests that we've actually had on the podcast. one of them being Jennifer Jeansonne, and she's local in the area that I live, which is New Orleans. She's a recruiter. And I'd met with her one on one previously, and an event that I was at where she was offering free consultations, which was amazing. And I knew that I really liked working with her and that our you know, our styles jive. I think the biggest thing was that she was a teacher. And so I immediately like this big kind of wait, sometimes it's like, it's hard when you used to be a teacher and you're working with someone who doesn't really know what that means or that, you know, I was worried like I'm getting judged because like I was a teacher and I left or something like that. So working with her was really great in that in person experience. And I felt like we built a relationship, having her on the podcast, keeping in touch with her about other opportunities, for her network for our network. And ultimately, I reached out to her and I said I there's a couple of jobs I'd like to apply for, can you help me with? And I was very targeted because I didn't... you know, it's a financial investment when you hire someone to help you and so I was very targeted and I wanted to help out my resume. And I wanted to help uncover letters and making sure that they aligned with the roles. That I was hitting the mark. And so I think those initial investments with my first few resumes that I sent out in my first few cover letters, having a professional helped me with them. What that did was it really helped me build confidence. And you know, there was a certain point where I was like, okay, I can take the wheel now, like, I feel like I've had enough kind of coaching back and forth support. And she continued to be one of my biggest cheerleaders. I remember I reached out to her later on, about, like, you know, contract negotiations, and she was super helpful in just sharing her experience also offered, if I wanted to have an additional session that I could, but it was a really tight timeline. So I didn't even have time to meet with her. But she has been such a great resource. And so I think, if you can find a service or a person that works well with your personality, and with your budget, it's worthwhile. It would be money well spent. But it also kind of gives you that confidence, right? When you feel like you have spent a lot of time working on your resume, updating your LinkedIn profile, working on a solid cover letter, you can then tweak those things for new roles that come up because you're familiar with that process was like. So you might need not need to do that every single time. But in the beginning, making sure that you have a really solid targeted resume is key. Because that's the first thing that they're going to look at, in addition to your cover letter. And a cover letter is optional. And there are people out there who will say like, Oh, you don't need to do a cover letter. I never read cover letters. There are people who do read cover letters. And if you have a good one that's going to go a long way. 

I read cover letters when people like you know, send in or I have to review an applicant, I always read the cover letter.

That's the recommendation that everyone has given me always submit the cover letter and I do I try to submit a cover letter every single time unless the application doesn't allow you to upload it. In which case I actually had one application that asked me a series of questions in lieu of a cover letter, and it kind of threw me off because the questions weren't necessarily what I would have in my cover letter. But it was their own way of of asking what they were interested in of candidates.

JoDee  12:15  
That's so interesting. Because yeah, you're right, like everybody's vetting an application process can be slightly different. I have definitely applied for a job that didn't require a cover letter, but it was a series. It was kind of like I took an assessment, it was like a personality assessment. And I didn't even know what my score was at the end. It was just kind of like a multiple choice, select which one best fits you. And I don't know what they did with that information. But yeah, it's everybody kind of has their own process.

Ali  12:47  
There's one other thing that I want to add really quick that I did. And I don't even know if you know about this, but for any of our military spouses, or veterans, or current service members who are listening, there's a lot of resources available to us. And I utilized Hiring Our Heroes had an opportunity to do resume review and LinkedIn review. And I also went to a federal employment session by My Seco, S E C O. And that's where they had an opportunity for you to meet with different government agencies and talk about what they're looking for and their candidates, and you know, what their job opportunities are like. And so, you know, maybe you're not falling into those categories. But there might be some of that free networking, professional development that you can go to, based on, you know, how you identify or what community you're connected to. Local communities also have those types of resources, they have mixers. I know the area I live in, has like a regional business development group that invites anybody to go to their events. So really putting yourself out there and going to events like that. It's a great way to network. Great way to prep for interviews and just make you feel more confident. And I think that was the the key for me was feeling like I was prepared. 

JoDee  14:06  
That's great. I've heard that a lot from people that they may not have gotten the first or second or third or fourth job they interviewed for, but they got better at preparing themselves. And it sounds like you know you did meet with Jennifer. And you were able to you know fine tune your resume. You were able to you know, know what the industry is looking for. But it sounds like a lot of what you did also was just you being actionable. And part of getting a job is you really do have to go the extra mile. You have to put yourself out there. You have to network. You have to fine tune every resume that you you submit to a particular job because it has to match up. You can't just have like the one size fits all model because everybody is looking for something slightly different, especially, you know, if you're going into a totally different role like you should not be sending the same resume. So, pat on the back to you, because you did do a lot of work yourself to be able to get to that next role. So what are some of the things that you were actionable about? Was it not just like your resume? Like, were there certain, like little things that you, when you looked at your resume, you were like, I have to do this, I have to do this? What about LinkedIn? Was there something in particular that you were actionable about?

Ali  15:37  
So yeah, there was something that I was doing. I was looking at people that were in the roles that I was interested in going into. What were their qualifications? What was their background? Do they have the same type of degree that I have? Did they have other certifications? And knowing that this was, you know, something, I'd be looking to make a transition or a shift, I started to also work on upskilling. So I haven't, I haven't sat for the exam yet. But I am in the process of taking the required bootcamp course to get my PMP: project management professional certification. And that's something that, you know, if this job search continued for longer, I would hopefully have have that on my resume. I also looked at the skills that I might need. So was I going to take like a Google course or something like that, to make sure that I was competitive with the market? 

JoDee  16:27  
What do you mean by you are looking at other people? Do you mean, you're going on LinkedIn?

Ali  16:32  
I was going on LinkedIn, yeah, sorry, I was going on LinkedIn. Or, you know, the work that I do is similar to the work that I'm going to do. So maybe it was professionals that were working at the companies that I wanted to work at. So I might just look up their staff and their bios, and see what they had on their resumes. How do I stack up? But also reminding myself that it's okay that I don't necessarily have a certain degree, because I have a lot of experience. And I want the teachers out there to know that your time in the classroom, that is professional experience, and don't let anybody tell you otherwise. The skills that you learned in the classroom, I count all of those seven years is my professional experience. And so you just have to be comfortable with talking about that, and showcasing that in a meaningful way on your resume and in your interviews. So just yeah, I would say, looking at company websites, bios, and LinkedIn mostly is, is what I would do as well.

JoDee  17:33  
Yeah, and I would say that whenever you are kind of doing that networking, or meeting with people, if you're going to a job fair, if you are just at a social event, it's a good opportunity to pitch what you do, or what you are looking for. Ali, you know this, like we were at South By last year. And we're ready to just like, talk about, you know, what we do here on the podcast. And that was when we were called the Great Teacher Resignation. And I don't know if we've talked about this or not, but Ali and I were pitching our podcast, and we were getting some, like, very curious looks or reluctance to know more because we didn't have our pitch right. And after that first day of South By, we had to literally like huddle up and decide what is our pitch, because whatever we're saying, is not getting the message across

Ali  18:37  
It was, it was not working. And, you know, the problem that we realized was that we were leading with the title of the podcast, which was, at the time The Great Teacher Resignation. You know, part of our change did have to do with that, actually. And it wasn't being received that well, because the listeners, the people we were pitching to, didn't have the context for what we do on the show. And so we actually flipped it. We would say, you know, the podcast is this... And it's called the Great Teacher Resignation. And so by the time we gave the name, you know, people had a better idea of what what the work we do on the podcast is actually all about.

JoDee  19:16  
And it's also like a, you know, it's still taboo, especially when you're around your peers. So all of these teachers and educational professionals, they come with a buddy, not a lot of people go to these things alone. And so it's taboo to talk about these things. And so when we're just kind of putting it out there, there was some reluctance to be like, hey, I want to, I want to hear more, but you know, my pal's right here. So yeah, we definitely had to make that adjustment. 

Ali  19:47  
So in terms of the pitching, that's actually something that I did also was I sought out opportunities for, like career fairs. Like I was saying the events that I went to through Hiring Our Heroes. And what I learned arranging those events is that you always have to introduce yourself. You're usually given about 30 seconds. And that's your pitch. And you only get that amount of time. And my observations, and also what I heard from facilitators was, you got to nail it, you know. And so I knew from the SXSW experience that I had to really know what I wanted to say, I had to be specific to explain who I was, and what what my experience was, but what I was looking for in an employer or what I was looking for professionally. And I was able to refine that, and work on a really good pitch. And it was short and sweet. And I got compliments on it. And I was proud of myself, because I, you know, I worked hard to be able to have an introduction for myself, and know that I wasn't someone who was going to be rambling on because I hadn't really prepared. So big piece of advice is have your elevator pitch for who you are, what you do, and what you're going for next. And, you know, to kind of circle back to what you said earlier about the term sunsetting. I have to give Jennifer credit for that. In one of my first cover letters, that was the way we explained, you know, what I was looking for now, or how I was moving on from my current role. And that's something I did build into my pitch, because it's really a nice way to say, I've been a part of something since the beginning. I'm knowledgeable about grants management, but it is coming to an end and I'm ready for what's next. You know,  I'm looking for what's next in my professional career. And so the language that you use, finding the terms that are going to fit with your situation, that are also going to be a little bit more well received and gentle. Like we learned that, that teacher shift is really what we're doing. Now we're talking about all these shifts, and the great teacher resignation is still still ongoing, still happening. But we've morphed. We've taken on a new, you know, name, title, embracing all things shifts.

JoDee  22:01  
And what is funny is like when we look at our analytics, when we look at the topics that our listeners want to hear, teacher shift fits much better than the great teacher resignation, even though we do feel passionate about continuing to talk about it. And it's obviously still ongoing. But yeah, it's important to have that pitch ready. And when Ali called me to tell me about her experience, it was like online, right? 

Ali  22:31  
It was, yeah, it was a virtual career fair. 

JoDee  22:33  
Yeah. And when she told me that she did this pitch, and she was getting compliments for it. I was just like, beaming with pride for you. Because it doesn't surprise me. But also, I think it's good to know that we, we can adjust. Like we didn't have that right at South By and then you went and fine tuned it at South By. And then you went neat, apply that same concept to this Virtual Job Fair. And so it's really important to get that pitch, right, and also to think about what you are pitching. So if you're a science teacher looking to transition into instructional design, that needs to be part of what you are pitching. You're, you're out there pitching your next thing, and you need to be concise about what you are, what you are there for, what you're there to represent. Because we're not looking back, we're looking forward. Everything that you have done in the classroom is going to help you. But you have to let them know what you're all about in this next career phase.

Ali  23:38  
I would add on to that, that the career fair, I was on the job fair, there were a lot of former educators and they spent a lot of time talking about their previous work and not as much on what they were looking for or how they thought their education skills could be applied to their new role. And so you really want to make sure you're not just describing what you used to do. But how are those skills relevant to your new field that you want to go into or the new roles and kind of thinking that through. Another thing that helped me was looking at a lot of job postings and figuring out what language are they using here. What are their responsibilities going to be? You know, how can I leverage my education skills to be able to fill these other skills. Including that in my resume. Including that in my cover letter. And that's another place which I forgot to mention earlier that I did learn more about qualifications for certain roles. And so I learned that I would be qualified for certain jobs or certain fields, but maybe others I wasn't going to be a great fit without maybe getting a master's degree. And so I knew that that I would focus right now on what I could control. But at times we think, Oh, well, I need to go get the degree or oh, I need to go get this thing. And that takes a long time. It takes money. It takes time. And we don't always have that when we're job searching. So, you know, that might be a long term goal like it is for me, but not right now.

JoDee  25:08  
So a lot of teachers, they invest in these additional certifications or degree programs, or national board certifications, because they think that it will be the catalyst for the next thing in their career. And they invest a lot of money into these things. I mean, I know a lot of districts cover partial tuition. But some school districts don't cover any tuition. Some school districts do not cover the cost of being nationally board certified. They don't cover the cost of being CASSLE certified. And so you really have to think, is this investment, helping me long term? Or is it what the system is telling me I should be doing? Is it the system carving my path? Or am I sitting back and am I thinking about what are my plans, two years from now? Five years from now? 10 years from now? And sometimes it's not those certifications or that degree. Sometimes it's investing in a resume service or recruiter to say, let's look at your career. What are you satisfied with? What are you not satisfied with? Where do you want to be? How much do you want to make? What are your goals? And that's where I think that kind of shift in mindset has to come in is, is this really going to help me long term? And where does my money need to be spent so my investment is worth it? 

Ali  26:46  
Right. And I mean, that was one of the things you know, it's like a cost benefit analysis. And I will say, that's why I did not pursue my Master's in Education at the time was that I was married to a military service member. And we were moving every few years. And so different states have different requirements. We never ended up moving to a state that that required a master's degree like New York. So I was like, alright, well hold off. If we move there, then I'll do it. But I was always able to get a job within my, my certification area, because that's what my bachelor's degree is in. It's in Spanish. And usually, as long as I get past the exams, I had the education credits for my alternative certification program, that, you know, I was able to get my certificate. But I just wasn't, you know, I wasn't ready to make that investment. And I didn't work for a school district like you did JoDee that was going to pay for a decent amount of my master's degree. And also, I really liked going into school in person. That was the other thing, I didn't want to start a program if it was going to be online at that time. Now, I might end up doing as a mom of two, working mom of two at some point. But no, I think it's really good to think about your short term goals, your long term goals. And, you know, some advice that my mom always used to say it's like, if you're not sure, don't do anything. Like if you're not sure of what to say, don't don't say anything. If you're not sure what to do, don't do it.

JoDee  28:10  
I am so on board with that. Because sometimes we rush these decisions, and especially if there's a huge financial risk or obligation to it. Like just take some, take some step back. Take a deep breath and don't rush it. Because ultimately you don't want to feel regret for that decision. Honestly, I'll be transparent with anybody, the only reason I got a master's was because my school district was paying for 80% of it. It took me a little bit longer to get because I could only take X amount of hours a semester. But I did not want to spend money on getting another degree. I did not want to take out another student loan. You know, I, I have eight siblings. So like when I went to college, it was all student loans. My parents paid for a little bit of the out of state portion. But otherwise, like I just didn't want to accumulate more debt that wasn't going to go away quickly with a teacher salary, you know?

Ali  29:14  
Understood. And also having less debt makes it a lot easier when you're making a shift because you are able to not be focused just on the salary, which I know is a huge, is a huge part of potentially leaving education to make more money. But also, it might allow you to make your first shift making a similar pay. And then your shift after that is when you see your bigger increase in salary. 

JoDee  29:39  
Yeah, so before we kind of round things out, just to give our listeners some perspective. How long did this process take? Because I know that it is frustrating. The amount of time it can take to secure a new job and this is not unique to teachers. I know a handful of people right now that have been looking for jobs for a year that have been applying. And they're not even teachers. They're just professionals out there in the world. Like, I don't want anybody to be discouraged by how long it may take to secure a job. But there are ways to kind of expedite and fine tune your resume and your networking. So it perhaps doesn't, you know, lengthen to a timeframe that is not suitable to you know, what you want. So, how long did it take you?

Ali  30:40  
So I will say, when you, when you hear the timeframe of what I started to now, I wasn't applying for lots of jobs. I really loved my role that I've had for the last almost four years. And so I was looking for very specific. If there was something that was like a dream job, or a company that I would.. like my top three companies that I would want to work at. Because Job Postings don't come up all the time in the fields that you're interested in. So if something popped up. And because again, I'm doing applied Thursday, like most weeks, I'm looking at the job board. So I wasn't necessarily actively searching this whole time. But I did start applying for jobs back in November, December of 2023, was when I started this process. And that was also me working on my resume, probably starting November 2023, getting things ready. And that took a while. And I would say, you know, I was so excited the first job that I applied to because it's probably like the number one company I would want to work for. And I made it past the first round, I made it past the second round, and that I didn't go any further. And, you know, it's really interesting exercise because I felt like, gosh, I got in the door. I'm going to be good. And then I did an exercise, like an activity that they requested me to do, which I had never been asked to do in an interview process. And that's something that is happening. There's actually like, like people that are for it, and people who are against it. They don't like the idea of you doing work for a company that you know, could use it as work. But at the same time this company didn't do that. They said, this is only for the application process. We're not using this or anything like that. But I think it also leveled my my expectations. You know, I went in thinking man, I might get the first job I applied for. And then quickly I was like, I'm not getting the first job I applied for. And so kind of took me back to my, my younger years when I would try out for a lot of theater, a lot of plays and musicals. And I was not the most talented person. I think I'm more talented in my current role that I was on the stage. But I kept trying. And so it like it builds like that grit and that perseverance. And so I knew, Okay, what could I have done better? How could my initial interview have gone better? Could my resume have been stronger? And then I started having all those like seeds of doubt, like, Oh, is it because I don't have a master's degree and everybody else had a master's degree? And so it was like, but what are the things that I can control? I can't control all of these things. All I can control is making my resume stronger, being better prepared for an interview, things like that. And so I moved on. And I made it through various stages of a few other applications. I applied for a couple of government jobs, which are actually still in review. Just so you know, if you're applying for government jobs, it can take months, it can take a year. So be aware of that. But ultimately, it's okay. I think if you're in a place like I was where you're happy where you're at, be picky. You know, apply for things that you really love. Spend a lot of time on them instead of that spray or pray method that we hear about where you're just sending out a generic resume. And then put yourself out there, be active on LinkedIn, join groups, follow pages for employers, but just be consistent, be constantly working to better yourself, to practice. There's different opportunities, you know, working with coaches, help getting help on preparing for interviews, and you'll figure out what your hopefully what your weak point is. And know that man this, this game has changed. People that we know, that we hear from they're having anywhere from three to seven interviews to land a job and it can last months. So you may be starting this process. And it is not a quick ride. It is a journey and you're on it for a while and be prepared. So I would give yourself at least you know, six months knowing that it could take that long to secure a role. I don't know what do you think? 

JoDee  34:50  
Yeah, I think that's one of the most kind of abrupt things that teachers looking for a shift kind of experience is you know, when you're applying for jobs within a district or another district, you hear pretty quickly if you got the job. You know, they want to be able to secure teachers really quickly, especially now that there's a shortage. When I applied for jobs in different states or move to a school down the road, I heard within a few days, like, you got the job, but they didn't really prolong the process that much. And so, just to kind of set everybody up for who is applying for these jobs, know that it's going to take longer than probably what you are used to when it comes to, you know, your experience applying for jobs as a teacher. It's just, especially I've heard the government jobs and the university jobs, because they have such stringent protocols for how they interview, how they create committees, you know, the process is just longer. And then on top of that, you may have multiple interviews. And that in itself prolongs the process. So just set yourself up to know that it's not as quickly as you may want it to be. And it's not you. Don't take it personally. That this is just kind of how the process is out here in the world outside of teaching. And the other thing that Ali said that I just want to mention is handling rejection, it stinks. It doesn't feel great. You want to snag that job quickly. And you want to be able to move on. But it doesn't always happen that way. And I've had to handle rejection on many levels. And it's a tough thing to swallow. But in the end, you get to where you are meant to be you learn through the process. And it's worth taking the interviews to get the practice. To be able to really nail that pitch, to nail that resume, that cover letter, those interview questions. So if you don't get it, use it. Know that it's it's practice. 

Ali  37:09  
It's always practice, and it just makes you better for the next one. And then the last thing I think I want to just end with today, and kind of on that note of not always getting it and it's it's okay. It's okay if you don't get it because you just need one Yes, right, when you're applying for jobs. So there may be a lot of Nos, but eventually there will be a Yes. And you know, that's the good news. But in that process, during that process, you may or may not hear from the employer about whether you got the job or not. And so I have had it both ways. There's times where I've gotten, you know, an email, or I don't think I've ever gotten a phone call, at least in this this year of looking for, for jobs, but usually, it's an email to let you know that you weren't selected. Sometimes they tell you why. Most of the time, they do not. And then sometimes you just get ghosted. They don't call you. They don't email you. You know, it's always great to follow up with a thank you, a written thank you via email. Definitely recommend doing that. And even when you send that they still might not let you know that you haven't advanced in the interview process. So don't take it personally. I think hiring managers, they just have different styles. And some people, a friend of mine recently hired for a role under her. She had 100 people apply. She let every single person know that didn't move on in the application process. Not everybody is like that. I commended her for that, because I was like people will really appreciate knowing that they're not moving on or getting an interview. But know that that's not always the case. So yeah, JoDee, it's been really great to be able to share this experience and know that you're not the only ones out there that are looking to make a shift. And it's hard. It's not an easy thing. But you have so many things to offer with your education background, whatever field you're in now or where you're looking to go. Just make sure to communicate that and practice that communication, whether it's written, verbal, and otherwise,

JoDee  39:10  
Practice makes perfect. Well, you've heard it hear from Ali, she's given us a lot of great tips along with sharing her experience with this new shift and high fiving you all the way here from DC we'll actually see each other later this week, but thanks for sharing your experience. And as you all know, we have future episodes coming up with other teachers sharing their experience, other professionals. And if you're ready for that shift, you know we've interviewed people that help with resumes, that help with recruiting. So reach out to them. Be actionable. Make that investment. Ali did and it really paid off and we'll catch you on the next episode.

Ali  39:59  
Are you interested in suggesting a topic for Teacher Shift? Being a guest or recommending a guest? Please see the episodes page on our website to make a submission. And if you'd like to write for us see our blog page. If you liked Teacher Shift, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music. Today's episode was written and recorded by me, Ali Simon and my co host, JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Shift. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji by Tubebackr.