Teacher Shift
Here at Teacher Shift, hosts Ali Simon and JoDee Scissors unpack one of the toughest questions educators face when considering a career shift - Who am I if I’m not a teacher?
Teacher Shift podcast shares resources for educators who need help with job exploration, identity, wellness, financial planning, and decision-making. We invite teachers, former teachers, people that love to hire teachers, mental health professionals, resume coaches, scholars, and financial planners to share experiences and guidance with educators that need or are considering a shift.
Teacher Shift
Teaching Is Leading: It’s Time to Follow Your Career Ambitions With Ross Romano
Do teachers make good leaders? Today’s guest shares the value of teacher leaders and why teachers are allowed to follow their own ambition.
In this episode, Ali and JoDee sit down with Ross Romano, a consultant, advisor, podcaster and performance coach. Together, they’ll discuss empowering teacher leaders within the education community, the qualities that make teachers good leaders, and the different paths teachers can take to become the leader they want to be.
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Be Podcast Network
The Authority Podcast
Sideline Sessions Podcast
A podcast decoding young brains and behavior in a digital world.
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Website
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Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog
Ali 0:06
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning who am I if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Ali Simon.
JoDee 0:29
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.
Ali 0:32
And this is Teacher Shift.
JoDee 0:43
Teachers are built to lead. Their day in and day out responsibilities equip them to handle diverse situations, people and problems. Today's guest helps us understand the value of teacher leaders, and why educators have the right to follow their own ambitions.
Ali 1:01
Today, our guest is Ross Romano. Ross is a consultant, advisor and performance coach. As the founder of September Strategies, he helps leaders clarify and articulate their vision and connect it with strategic decisions for major impact. Ross co-founded the B Podcast Network. He is a Founding Chair of The Excellence in Equity Awards, and host of the podcasts, The Authority and Sideline Sessions. Welcome to the show today.
Ross 1:30
Thanks for having me. I apologize. I wish I had simpler bio, but you did a great job.
JoDee 1:36
I'm just wondering what it is you don't do? You know, we were like looking at all your content. And I'm wondering, wow, Ross wears a lot of hats. I'm wondering what he absolutely can't do because he does everything.
Ross 1:48
I'm seem to keep busy.
Ali 1:50
Yes, a jack of many trades, I think that we have on the podcast today.
JoDee 1:55
Yes, we always talk about teacher hats, how teachers wear a lot of hats. So, you know, they they have their day to day where they're giving instruction, but they also analyze data, and they also fundraise. And they have all these things that they're, you know, a Jack or Jill of all trades for and I think you might connect with a lot of teachers and those qualities. And you mentioned your wife as a teacher. So you probably see it day to day.
Ross 2:19
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think having a lot of different skills is always valuable. And it's something that I talk to people about in all professions saying, let's actually sit down and do an exercise where you list out everything you know how to do, right? Because there's always so much more that's not reflected in your resume or in your job title. And it's like you've done all these projects, you have all these skills, and why not show that to yourself. So there we go.
JoDee 2:47
I love that. Well, we're here today, people might be wondering, you know, you're not a former teacher. What are you doing here on the podcast today? And Ali and I, we don't just interview teachers, or former teachers, we also interview people that support teachers, and their career path, their mental health, their financial health, whatever it might be. Because we think it's important for all stakeholders to value the educator and help uplift them and, and help them be the best person that they can be professionally and personally. And so today, we're going to talk about leadership, which seems like an area in which you can provide a lot of help and helpful tips and services for. And so we know that a lot of teachers, they come into the profession, and they have this vision of what their career path is going to be. And then as they grow with age or with experience, they learn that they want to take different paths, and they become leaders in various ways, even if maybe their title doesn't necessarily match their leadership skills or what they may be leading. And so we're just kind of wondering, you know, what happens when a teacher maybe doesn't recognize the leader in them? And they're not connecting with what are the kind of the the social norms of a leader? How do we help connect them to those leadership skills and put them on a path, perhaps on a traditional path of leadership within a school district or maybe outside of that?
Ross 2:52
Yeah, I think there's a variety of angles to that in place, work and start. One is, you know, I think schools as a whole. School leaders can continue to get a lot better at empowering teacher leaders, developing them, giving them opportunities to authentically have leadership within the schools. Right. And, you know, the other side of it is the teachers themselves, exploring what those opportunities might be, but really looking at themselves and deciding what they really want to do, right. There's a lot of teachers out there who aspire to go into administration and those pathways are relatively well defined, depending on where you are. It may or may not be the easiest or most supportive, but it's generally known what's required to get there and what that kind of looks like, right. But there's a lot of other teachers who what they want to do is teach in a classroom. They are, you know, often the best teachers in the school. And to me, having a lack of great opportunities for teacher leadership is disincentivizing in kind of all the areas, right? It makes those great teachers frustrated, because they don't feel like they're having a voice that they should have based on their expertise and their experience. It is there's a real opportunity cost, the school is losing the effectiveness of collective collaborative leadership, right? That they could benefit from if these teachers had more of a voice. And ultimately, the teachers are feeling a lot of pressure from within themselves, from other people in their lives, who are wondering, a lot of people who are saying that the families of teachers or friends think, well, why aren't you a principal? Things like that, where that may not be what they want to do. And then if we end up losing those teachers in the profession, and they're the best teachers in our schools, or even if they feel like they have to go into administration to have a step forward in their career, and they're no longer in the classroom, that may not be where they have the biggest impact. So the number one thing I'd say is for the teachers as individuals to really determine what do they do I want to be an administrator. Is that not what I'm interested in? Do I want to stay in my teaching role? Do I want to be a leader? What does it mean to be a leader? What kind of an impact would I like to have? If those opportunities aren't being made clear to me, how do I start those discussions with the administration about what I'm looking for, the type of support I want to provide? Being clear and trying to reach some sort of an agreement around, this is clearly what I'm expecting what I want. This is how I feel I can make a difference. And then determining, can we create that opportunity? Or that opportunity is not going to happen where I am, what's another pathway to that? And maybe a different school or potentially a different profession. But I don't think that has to be the first thought because there may be leadership somewhere else, right, who is a little more innovative and forward thinking?
Ali 4:24
Yeah, I think you're really addressing the question that I want to ask you, which is, you know, sometimes these social stigmas get in the way of teachers following their own ambitions, teacher leaders, specifically. Because there are these like specific pathways, right? You're either going into administration, or you might go into something else within the school district. But there's maybe not as defined a pathway for what you describe, which I actually know, a really awesome teacher leader who has been on the podcast. They call her La Maestra Loca, by Annabel Allen. And she is just like an expert in her field. And she's basically crafted what you describe, right, where she does a lot of professional development. She goes and speaks at conferences. She's been a leader at all of the schools that she's been at leading the way even recently, I think, to a school in New Orleans getting their own teachers union, which they didn't have before. So, you know, but it's not an easy pathway to go down. Because once you kind of make it known that you're not, hate to say this, like just a teacher, then things kind of change for you. So do you have any suggestions for how someone who wants to become more of like a teacher leader, and work on developing that pathway, which is not so clear cut what they could do?
Ross 8:48
Yeah, hopefully become more clear cut. That's what I mean. There's been some efforts in that direction. But, you know, nationwide, it hasn't totally been formalized. I mean, I remember multiple administrations ago, I was, when I was working at ACD. I was kind of part of the collaborative team with the Department of Ed, on the Teach to Lead initiative that was started during the Obama administration. And I don't think that exists anymore. Maybe it does. I don't, I don't know. But, you know, like, some efforts toward, Okay, let's establish teacher leader as its own thing, right? Because realistically, there's potential for it to be a little more informal, not highly formalized. But realistically, like, it's not supposed to be something that's a volunteer initiative. It's not the kind of thing that should feel like it's just an extra, Oh, well, these teachers want to do more. Yeah, they can do whatever they want to do. But ultimately, they're only really being compensated for their other job or they're not formally part of the decision making process at school. Because they're is a variety of things that a teacher leader could do. Right? They could, they could be professional learning leaders. They could really organize and collaborate and learn the ongoing professional development for their peers. They could be, you know, having a leadership role in planning the curriculum and the instructional practices within a school. They could be part of school wide decision making with the people in administrative roles. And there should be an opportunity for all of that, right? A lot of times we have teachers in our schools who have been there longer than anybody, who have clearly proven that they know what they're doing. So we want to empower those voices. So for the teachers themselves, I think the first piece again, is going back is to figure out what what do you what impact do you want to have? Like I just mentioned a few different ways that that look. When you see yourself as a leader, what do you want to do? And what do you want to commit to that? And also understanding that one, you know, I always go with a starting point, whether it's people from education or not. But when I do coaching with professionals, there's a lot of people who come into it kind of feeling like they want to change jobs, or they want to go to something new. And we never start from the assumption that that's what will be the right thing. We start with, Okay, let's first look at what is the scenario where you are right now? What do you like? What are you unhappy about? What are the opportunities to create what you want? What are the difficult discussions you haven't had with your supervisor or with your peers? What are the things that you want that you haven't advocated for,that you were kind of hoping that somebody might create for you, but nobody would really know that you want that? Right? So we start there and say, Okay, are there opportunities there? So that might be something for a teacher who's in school, they're feeling a little frustrated. They feel like they should be having more of these opportunities, but nobody's offering them that. Okay. How can you go and clearly communicate, this is what I want to be doing. This is why I think it would make a difference. How do we make a plan to make this happen? And then also understanding that, I think one thing that's likely more true of teaching than a lot of other professions, just by the nature of how long a teacher may stay in one school, right? A lot of teachers who have been in the profession a long time have been in the same school, maybe for a long time. That every school is not the same. Every school leaders not the same. I did a couple of white papers a couple of years ago around the teacher shortage and teacher recruitment and retention and trying to determine what's happening with this. And the top two things that came out, there were a variety of reasons, the top two things as far as why teachers leave. Bumber one was poor leadership. And that's pretty consistent across any profession. I mean, the leadership of this organization, or my boss is not somebody I believe in, get along with, etc. I'm going to start looking elsewhere. And number two was not really feeling like they could make a difference any longer. Maybe we don't have the resources to really support our students, and that's why I got into this. And ultimately, if I can't make a difference, there's really no reason to stick around, because I didn't get into this profession for the money. But it's not worth it to do the job for less compensation then maybe I can make somewhere else if I'm not even making a difference, right? Those both relate to teachers. Like is the school leadership creating authentic opportunities for teachers to have a voice and do teachers feel like they're making a difference they can make. So just to put a period on that. You may still if you really love the profession, and you love teaching, but you want to have more opportunities to make more of a difference, and it's just not going to happen in your school. There's many, many schools out there. There's not enough teachers. They're all looking for great people who know what they're doing, who want to do great work. So there are opportunities out there, and it feels scary if you've been in one place a long time, and you're not used to looking. But truly, there's more opportunities out there than you might think.
JoDee 14:27
Yeah, and I think it's very wise to reflect on your current situation and not immediately go to a full blown exit. Because what you may need to reflect on is in your environment, your leadership, and you're totally right. You may get somewhere else that's not in the teacher world in the education space, and come upon poor leadership or maybe a type of leadership that doesn't necessarily connect with the type of leader that you want to follow or grow from. And so we always, Ali and I always tell people, and when we're talking with teachers that are considering shifts, Well, let's reflect on your current situation right now. And what we can immediately look at that may need to be an adjustment. It might not be just exiting completely and leaving the teaching profession behind. Because as you stated, when we have these really skilled teachers leaving the classroom, and even if it's just going into being a reading specialist, a math specialist, speech, pathology, Assistant Principalship, whatever it might be. That departure from the classroom, when you are really good teacher, it does impact the you know, the climate a bit. Because you have this amazing teacher who has to pass their torch in a different way, and develop the teachers below them or around them. So there's not really that instructional gap that we may gasp at. I mean we're like, Oh, my God, Mr. or Mrs. So and so is leaving the classroom. They're the best teacher ever, you know? Because those teachers can be built up in that way. But you're just making really great points that when we are developing leaders within ourselves, let's reflect on what we are skilled in. Let's build upon that. Let's look around us to see what opportunities are there. Who we can connect with, to make sure that we are planning the next transition, you know, in a smart way, and not being so impulsive about it. But I know that at times, people are desperate to get out of situations. And sometimes there is this impulsive behavior, because they're just ready for the next thing. And so the point I was trying to get to is that we can sometimes be impulsive when we want to make a switch, or maybe if we want more out of something. And one of the things that hold us back sometimes is that we're kind of taught to not want more as teachers. We're kind of taught this is our career path, this is our trajectory, this is our pay scale, we should be grateful. We are giving we are giving we are giving and we are not to receive. And so how do we kind of break that thinking of, you're not supposed to want more because you're a servant leader? How do we embrace the fact that teachers to have an equal opportunity to be leaders in spaces, even if it's not within a school building?
Ross 17:42
I mean, one, you only can only give what you have to give, right? So if you totally like deplete your energy or wherewithal, it's, it's going to be hard at a certain point to continue serving effectively. So that's something to be mindful of. And two, like most of these motivations, even defined in the most critical way possible, it's not motivated selfishly. I mean, it's where we see opportunities to do more good work, to make more of a difference, to help more people. And that could be inside or outside of the profession. I mean, one thing I also always remind people of that, I think doesn't feel this way a lot when somebody maybe is choosing to take a job outside of teaching, if they've been a teacher, or you know, in other scenarios as well, is that you reserve the right to change your mind. You reserve the right to make a different decision down the road, given different information. I know some people who left teaching for a year or two to try something new and went back. I know people who left teaching for 10 years and went back. And they may have worked in other roles in education specifically or not, but they did the thing that was the right thing for them at the time. And then at another time, they decided that that was what they want it to go back to right. So every decision doesn't need to feel like it's permanent. I think that's one of them. Because there are times where it just might be there's just an opportunity I want to try. There's I'm making a move to a different city for whatever reason, and there's a better opportunity to try a job that's there or something that's remote or whatever. I'm just feeling totally burnt out and even moving to a different school right now might not restore that right away. Whatever the reason is, right? There's that, I'm sure it's described by other guests here, like a grieving process that people feel when they leave the teaching profession. And, you know, one of those things is also to to understand, I do want to always reiterate that, there are opportunities to grow create what you want to create. So like, nobody should feel that they're forced out of the profession that they really want to be it. Again, it may just be that you're not in the right place. That it's time to go somewhere where there's leadership that's more supportive, or it's a new environment where it's a new group of parents, whatever it may be. But also, that if you decide the right thing for you is to try something new. Go for it. And, and understand that, it doesn't mean you have to do that thing forever. And you might still want to go back. So yeah, I think those are things to keep in mind, because it does feel like it's a one way trajectory, right? And it's not necessarily.
Ali 20:45
I think it kind of feels like that, because I think it's really hard to leave, right? And so when it's really hard, if you have to take it's a lot of like courage, generally, unless someone just has something life changing that makes them realize this no longer will work, which we've definitely had those guests. But usually, it's something you've been working towards, you've been overcoming, and you're like, Okay, I'm going to make a change. But I couldn't agree with you more, I think that, you know, maybe it's not the right time for you to be in the classroom. Maybe something's going on your personal life, and you need more flexibility. Like, there's lots of reasons why people leave. And the door is always open. These days there are always teaching positions available. And so I think, you know, acknowledging that it might not be forever, but I love the idea of really figuring out, you know, before you make a transition to shift, like, what's the reason that you're doing that? And I actually have a really good example. I moved from teaching public school, most of my career, and when we moved to New Orleans, it worked out where I ended up getting a job at a private school. That was the, the option that worked best for me. And it was like a breath of fresh air. Like I had way less students. I had way more flexibility. I started coaching speech and debate and had like a budget and had all of these things that I didn't have to become a major fundraiser. JoDee, and like, ask for donations all the time, you know? It's just like, things were different. I think that was really helpful for me with that time of my life. And I think so making a transition, whether it's to a different school, whether it's public or private, whether it's maybe becoming an adjunct, whatever that looks like for you to try those shifts. But then, you know, ultimately, I think what we're talking about today is really these leadership qualities that teachers have. And so maybe what you're thinking about as a teacher, is that you've learned so much from your career as an educator, which I've really truly feel like I do. We did a whole episode about why teaching is a great first career. And I really believe that. I feel like I put that in the same bucket as like the military, like it prepares you so much to go into so many other fields. And so, you know, I want to know, you're an expert like in leadership, you know, in your opinion, do teachers make great leaders? And then in other sectors to not just staying within the school or education field?
Ross 23:10
The number one leadership skill that I always come back to is communication. And it's the ability to communicate a vision, right, communicate what we're doing and why we're doing it. That's what teaching is. If you can communicate to students, and help them to understand, here's the big picture, here's what we're working toward, here's why we're trying to get there. And you can be invested in their individual growth, and be able to adapt and differentiate, and relate to where different students are at a point in time, and what their interests are, and where they're trying to be, and be able to adjust for that and help them all make progress. Those are all the things that leaders need to be doing, right. Leadership is a set of behaviors. It's not a title. And so you may be familiar with people who are in leadership positions that don't do these things. Well, I don't think they're good leaders. And this, so this is what it needs to really be. So that's number one is or the essence of teaching is leading and vice versa. That's common in a lot of organizations, too. Like I mentioned, the reasons why teachers leave. Those things are also consistent and other types of organizations where it's unclear to me what my future is here. I don't really feel like I have growth opportunities or I'm not receiving professional learning or, you know, if it does happen, it feels random and haphazard. Like I don't exactly know what it is, or we're always given a bunch of things to do, and there's no explanation of why we're doing it. There's no transparency. All of those things, right. The same things that frustrate you as a professional are the same things that would frustrate students. That would leave them disengaged. That would leave them like, why are we learning? So if you can do all those things effectively, as a teacher, you can do that as a leader. And also it's that, you know, the mentality. It's the mission orientation. It's the reason why you got into it is to serve, to help, right? To help grow students. But the same thing that leaders should really care about in any organization is they should really care about growing professionals, growing individuals, helping them achieve new opportunities, helping them learn new things. So yeah, I think that's probably the simplest way to say is the skills translate.
JoDee 25:39
I actually think you said it pretty perfectly and pretty much summed up what the essence of the episode is, and it is that teaching is leading. And when you find yourself leading, you will also find yourself teaching. And I cannot count on two hands how many times I have been in a position, in my new role, where I've come upon someone who others have identified as incapable or disorganized, or not able to fulfill their duties within their job. And my, my implicit thinking is, well, let's figure out what's going on. Let's find some strategies for filling that gap, or building those skills up. Before we fully cancelled this person, and what their role is, and what their duties are. And so I think that if you are thinking about a transition into leadership, you will always find that teacher in you coming out to build those around you. And they will appreciate a leader that doesn't give up on them, and that helps them continue to grow. And before you know, we round out or anything, I know, Ali's gonna share your socials here in a minute. But I just wanted to know, like, what are your podcasts about? Tell us just a quick little... if you have a little elevator pitch for your podcast, tell us what they're about. And then Ali will share how to get in touch with you.
Ross 27:07
Yeah, so my podcast, The Authority, we've done more than 100 episodes now. That is basically about leadership. And often it's specifically about education leadership. And every episode, I interview an author about one of their recent books. So it could be somebody who specifically has written a book for school leaders or the education field, but it could also be Wall Street Journal bestseller types, that are more generally about leadership or personal development. So we go deep in each of those episodes, and really draw out all the things that help people who really want to be a leader. So people listening to this might be interested in that. And my other podcast, Sideline Sessions, is about sports coaching. So intended audience is coaches who are at the high school or youth levels, could also be parents of student athletes, but we talk to a lot of professional coaches from the NFL, NBA, Olympics, also college coaches, high school coaches, from all different sports and kind of get their insights on what made them successful, and their tips and strategies to help others succeed as well. So if you're a coach, or you have kids who play sports, you might be interested in that.
JoDee 28:20
So what's Be Podcast?
Ross 28:22
So we have a network of a little more than 40 podcasts right now. It's all around education. So many of our shows are K 12 Leadership. We also have shows for teachers, for parents. We have couple that are around some other topics for teens and students, but it's all about education. And we kind of collaborate, work together to try to put out great content every day, really. We publish probably hundreds of episodes every month between all those shows. But the people can if they want to go to be podcast dot network or be podcast network.com. They can see what all those shows are and check them out. Anybody, if you're interested in education, if you work in education, if you're a parent, there's something there for you.
Ali 29:10
There are a lot of podcasts there. I went down a rabbit hole before this interview, and I was like, oh my goodness, there's just so many podcast. I'm going to have to start downloading episodes for my road trip coming up. So no, just such a delight to have you on the show Ross. And for all of our listeners, we're gonna link in the show notes, the websites and all of the socials where you can reach Ross on Twitter, LinkedIn, etc. So thank you again so much for your time today.
Ross 29:37
I appreciate you having me and I appreciate you doing this show and having productive discussions about the education field and what it can be and working toward that. So thanks for having me.
Ali 29:49
Are you interested in suggesting a topic for Teacher Shift? Being a guest or recommending a guest? Please see the episodes page on our website to make a submission. And if you'd like to write for us, see our blog page. If you liked Teacher Shift, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple podcasts, Spotify and Amazon music. Today's episode was written and recorded by me, Ali Simon and my co host, JoDee Scissors. executive produced by Teacher Shift. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji by Tubebackr.