038 Educator Red Flags with Laylee Emadi

Make sure you're investing your money in the right places so you're never left feeling like you've been scammed. Laylee Emadi joins me for an interview to talk all about red, beige, and green flags to watch out for in a creative educator!

Show Notes - https://simplysandrayvonne.ca/redflags-laylee-emadi/
The Creative Educator Conference - https://simplysandra--layleeemadi.thrivecart.com/the-creative-educator-conference-2024/ (affiliate link!)

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Laylee Emadi

Website - http://layleeemadi.com/
Instagram - http://instagram.com/laylee_emadi

Transcript

Sandra Henderson (00:00.342)
When you're investing in any sort of education in your business, whether that be working with a business coach or attending a workshop or a conference, there's a lot of anxiety that goes in behind it because it is expensive and it also takes a lot of time and you want to make sure that this investment that you are putting into yourself and your business because it is an investment that you want to make sure that it's actually going to pay off going forward and be worth all the energy that you put into it.

And then you also want to make sure that you can actually trust the people that you're working with, right? Unfortunately, we have all experienced things where we have paid for something and we just don't feel like we got the service that we were looking for from it. And my first experience trying to work with an educator in my business, unfortunately, was one of the worst experiences I've ever had. And something that really set the tone for how I was going to

invest in my education going forward, but also how I was going to be doing things as an educator. Welcome to Keeping It Candid. I'm your host, Sandra Henderson, an international wedding and family photographer and business coach. I help wedding photographers use systems to build out the back end of their businesses to gain control and continue to thrive no matter what life throws their way.

And on a more personal note, I'm a strong Enneagram 3-wing too, who is obsessed with tacos. And my love for traveling combined with navigating chronic illness life are just two of the many things that drive my passion for all things, systems, workflows, and beating burnout as a business owner. Join me every week for a candid behind the scenes look at what it's really like working as a wedding photographer, where I'll give you actionable steps to take your business to the next level.

Absolutely no fluff here, friends, so go grab your favorite notebook and pen and let's dive into this week's episode.

Sandra Henderson (01:49.186)
Today on the podcast, we are talking all about red flags, beige flags, and green flags when it comes to educators in the wedding photography industry. But before we get into it all, I wanted to set the tone of the episode by telling a little bit of a story of my very first time getting involved with an educator and how it shaped where I am today as in the education space myself.

So I had been in business for about three years when some local photographers that were about a couple hours away from me, so local-ish, started advertising a workshop series that they were gonna be hosting every Sunday from May through October. They had different topics for every week and I was so excited about this because these photographers were huge in this area. I had been following them my entire time coming up

as a wedding photographer all through college. I'm not gonna name any names here. They're not in business anymore. And honestly, they get all the bad karma that's coming to them. You will see as this story continues on. But I just don't wanna set myself up for any sort of legal bullshit coming my way. So I'm not gonna name who they are, but these photographers, they set up this workshop. I paid $450 upfront. You had to pay in full for the workshop.

and that was for a June date and then I was going to be taking one in August as well but I hadn't put the money down on that yet, thankfully. So after I submitted my payment and everything, time went on and I had never actually received any sort of information from the photographers that were hosting this. But because it was my first time working with an educator, this didn't seem too off base for me. I knew that they were super busy.

with their own wedding clients and everything from what I was seeing online. So I just figured I would get something eventually. And then it was the weekend of the workshop. And on the Saturday, I actually had a wedding and I was gonna be going to the workshop on the Sunday. And as we are on the way to the wedding, my assistant was driving and I checked my email and there was an email from these photographers saying that due to unforeseen circumstances, the workshop...

Sandra Henderson (04:08.962)
that was to happen the next day was cancelled and that they would be in touch within the next couple of days to get everybody set up with refunds and everything. So I was so disappointed but I had to go about doing the wedding and after a few days I still hadn't heard anything so I went onto Facebook and I noticed that the events had been deleted and then I tried to find the website that didn't seem to be around anymore either.

This is when I started getting red flags. I wish I'd had them sooner, but this is definitely when alarms were going off, red flags were popping up. I decided to send an email to the hosts of the workshop and ask them if there was any sort of update on when we would be receiving this refund. And I got an autoresponder email back saying that they were out of the office for a wedding and they would get back in touch with me as soon as they were back in the office on Monday.

So I wait another about a week, week and a half, and I still haven't heard from them. So I decide to send another email to check in, and this time I get an autoresponder email telling me that they're out of the office for a couple of weeks for vacation. So I again wait until they say that they are gonna be back in the office. I send another email, they still don't hear anything.

And so I decide at this point to go into another email address. I was actually planning my own wedding at the time. So I went into the email address that I had for planning my wedding and I sent them a fake wedding inquiry. And wouldn't you know it, within 15 minutes I had a response back asking if I wanted to set up a consultation. So I went over into my business email account and I sent them yet another email that didn't get responded to.

Surprise, surprise. So a few days later, when they followed up with my fake wedding inquiry asking if I was interested in setting up a consultation, I decided to let my pettiness fly and I responded telling them no, I was actually just submitting a fake wedding inquiry to see if they were ignoring my emails, which apparently they were. So thanks for confirming that and I'll be filing a fraud complaint with my credit card company. So that was actually the route that I had to go. And it took another...

Sandra Henderson (06:27.466)
I want to say month or so of the credit card company doing a fraud investigation and eventually I did receive my refund. And then that fall I was actually at a wedding at the wedding venue that these workshops were supposed to be hosted at and I was talking to one of the staff at the venue and explained the whole situation, told them about the workshop and they looked more and more shocked the longer I was speaking because here's the real kicker.

These photographers had never actually booked this wedding venue for the workshops that they were advertising eight weeks of workshops for. Me talking to the staff was the first time that they had ever heard of these workshops. So I found out that it was a scam right from the very beginning. And let me tell you, it left the worst taste in my mouth when it came to these photographers.

to whether or not you can trust your peers in the industry, if you can trust educators in the industry, like it was just the absolute worst experience to start off with. Now, thankfully, every educator I've worked with since then, every coach I've worked with, every conference I've gone to, it has all been built with integrity, with people who know what they're talking about, with people who are looking to help and serve you and not scam you from the very beginning.

And so I hope that story doesn't scare you away from taking the leap yourself if you have not worked with an educator this far in your business. Aside from the impact it's had on me with working with educators in the future, it has also had an incredible impact on me as an educator because there is no way in hell I will ever, ever get into a situation where something like that happens with somebody that I'm educating.

I want every client that I work with to walk away feeling confident, feeling like they not only got their money's worth out of it, but got more than what they paid for out of it, that they are singing my praises hopefully, and that they just have a more simple streamlined approach so that they can go into their business and keep building this dream that they've been working towards for so long.

Sandra Henderson (08:42.334)
And it's also what inspired me to reach out to my friend, Laylee Emadi to talk all about red, beige, and green flags that you see with wedding photographers in the industry, like I was mentioning back at the beginning. If you've never heard of Laylee, she is an educator, a speaker, and conference host with a heart for serving clients and fellow entrepreneurs through her coaching work, as the host of So Here's the Thing podcast, and as the founder of the Creative Educator Conference.

She believes in leading with heartfelt encouragement and honest guidance. And as a long time entrepreneur, she's not afraid to dig into tough topics or transparently share her own experiences, both the good and the bad. She's passionate about her goal to equip you in your ability to make a difference, create impact, and build a life doing what you love. Now,

The person that I think about when I want real talk when it comes to the creative industry is Laylee. She is not kidding when she talks about being transparent and her own experiences, both the good and the bad. And so I cannot wait for you guys to listen to this interview so that it can better prepare you as you head into 2024 and start making those investments in yourself too. Thank you so much for joining me. It feels a little bit surreal after listening to your podcast for so many years. I absolutely love it.

And when I was thinking about doing this episode and I knew I needed someone to come on with like their real talk, unfiltered opinion on things, the one person I thought about was you. So Laili, I would love if you could just quickly introduce yourself and let people know a little bit, wow, a little bit about what you're all about before we dive in. Yeah, absolutely. First of all, that's so kind. Thank you. I feel like, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but a lot of people associate me with like just...

the brutal honest truth, and I try to be kind when I share it. But I think it's a good thing. So I appreciate that and I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, like you said, I'm a podcaster. I'm a coach for educators and speakers, so it's very meta, but I get to work with people on sharing their skillset really well and impacting their industry really well. And so I love doing that as well. And I also host the Creative Educator Conference, which does the same thing, but with guest speakers.

Sandra Henderson (10:55.198)
which I had the pleasure of attending earlier this year and it was absolutely incredible. You never would have known that it was the first time hosting this conference because it was perfection from start to finish. If anybody listening is interested in dipping their toe into the water in education, I definitely recommend checking it out because it was 10 months later now and I'm still pulling things that were so relevant and so helpful, so cannot recommend it enough.

And I totally agree that it is a good thing to have everybody associate you with the blunt opinions because you do, you don't like, you're not mean about it, but there are things that, you know, they need to be said and too many people dance around it and don't wanna talk about it. So I love it, I think it's a great thing. Thank you. So today we are gonna be talking a little bit more about coaching, but from the wedding photographer perspective of people who are going to be

investing in coaching, whether it be for the first time or continuing their education. And we both know that there are educators of all kinds out there. I mean, you can say that about everything, but there's definitely educators of all kinds out there. So today I wanted to kind of do a little like red flag, beige flag, green flag, and talk a little bit about what people should be keeping their eye out for as they are investing in education.

So why don't we get the bad out of the way? Let's start with the red flags, which I think is the real juicy one. Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. First off, it's really tricky when you're investing in education in the wedding industry or in any creative space because I say this all the time as somebody who I started my education for educators with the Creative Educator Academy.

which is like a program that kind of gives you the foundational tools for all different types of education in the creative space. And the reason that I did that and the reason I'm talking about that is because when I started in this industry 10 years ago, and I started in the photography industry in particular, there was, and there still is no regulation on who can call themselves an educator. There's no kind of licensing or certificate or anything that takes you through.

Sandra Henderson (13:16.286)
You could literally tomorrow say, or today, you could right now go on Instagram and be like, I'm now an educator. And people do that. And they do it and it's great. And maybe they have the knowledge and they have what it takes to actually call themselves an expert. But to call yourself an educator. And again, maybe it's because this is kind of like my background is in actual education. So I was an actual teacher.

for just shy of a decade and I wrote curriculum for my school district. And so I worked really hard to become an educator. And now, you know, seeing all these people out here calling themselves coaches, speakers, educators, course creators, but they have no qualifications to do so. Sometimes it's fine. Sometimes you're a natural teacher, but sometimes it's not. And so I'm glad that we're talking about this. So I want to get that out of the way by saying like that's kind of the premise of what I base these like red flags and green flags off of that we're going to be talking about is that…

There just is so little out there that will qualify somebody to be an incredible educator. So you have to do like you the investor, you have to do like the research and the due diligence and look beyond Instagram followers to determine who is actually going to be like a good coach for you. So red flags I would look for right off the bat is people who...

are out here, like just stirring the pot just to get traction on social media. I think it's great. Obviously, I based an entire podcast for the past five years off of like, quote unquote, unpopular opinions, but they're not opinions that really stir the pot. Half the time an unpopular opinion is an opinion that everybody has, but nobody wants to talk about. Yeah. So I think that's one really big red flag is just looking for people who are just

Sandra Henderson (15:08.046)
attraction and followership and all the things. So that's one red flag. Another red flag is I think people who are only teaching and not doing what they're teaching. And this is debatable. Like I feel like a lot of people, I don't know how you feel about this, but like there's a lot of educators out there. Like wedding photography is a perfect example of coaches who they get into coaching and they scaled back.

their photography and then they just stop doing photography, but they're still teaching. And to me, there's a certain timeframe where that's okay. And it depends on the topic you're teaching too, I think. But if you're teaching marketing to book, and it's been two or three years since you've booked, I mean, the tactics are not going to be the same. We just went through a global pandemic. There's no way that it's like this economy is completely different today than it was three years ago. Your marketing tactics and tools are likely outdated.

So that to me is a red flag. Yeah, for sure. I totally agree with you on that. Do you? Okay, that's good. I'm always like, I don't know how you feel about this. No, I think it makes a lot of sense. As you were saying that, I was thinking about educators that I know who started off in one industry, started teaching in it, and then kind of scaled back. The things that they're teaching on focus on things like email marketing or systems or whatever the case may be. They're not...

teaching you how to be a wedding photographer when they haven't shot a wedding in 10 years. So I think that that's super important. Yeah. I think if they are, that's something I would question. But otherwise, I think, again, it's topic dependent 100%. I agree with that. I could teach a wedding. I could coach a wedding photographer tomorrow and I haven't shot a wedding since 2019, but I would never coach them on something that I'm not currently doing. So absolutely.

Sandra Henderson (17:03.542)
or systems or whatever, hiring, things that I'm still doing in my daily life. But I wouldn't teach them on the newest gear or in particular, booking brides in this economy. That's so specific and it's something that you really have to be hands-on about. For sure. It's giving me flashbacks of when I took photography in college. And it was like...

There was, I don't regret it. There were great takeaways from it, but I will never forget being in a portrait class and having the teacher had like a string that was tied to the camp, like the tripod that he pulled out to meet up with our chins to make sure. And like, that's how they used to do like school posing in like the seventies, eighties, nineties. I was in school in 2010. Like there was no need to still be teaching us that way. And like that.

served me no purpose. The only reason I remember it is because of how ridiculous it was, not because it like, you know, came in handy as I was getting into the photography industry. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. I'm like remembering seeing that happening. Right. Yeah, so that's what we were taught. So good. Okay, so I guess I'll give like one more red flag. Okay. Yeah, sounds good. Okay. I'm trying to think of the best one.

I think probably the biggest one is people who are like being just cautious and conscientious when you're doing your digging about like the people who are offering coaching is seeing how long have they actually been doing this because it's so hard to tell like I tell people all the time when you want to start marketing yourself as an educator. I mean this is something I teach so I want people to be successful at it. I'm like okay so start sharing on the things that you know. But the red flag here and like the misstep that I see is when people...

start sharing what they know and they immediately start trying to charge what the coach is charging who has been around for years and years and has helped hundreds and hundreds of people versus like, I've helped one person and now I'm just getting started. So I would just look out for the red flag of people are always going to look their most confident and put their highlight reel on the internet. So it's your job to see like, hey, how many people have you actually helped? Like, where are your testimonials and are they real people? Are they like, you know?

Sandra Henderson (19:21.814)
friends and family or the actual clients and other industry experts? Just digging into the show versus the proof. Yeah, absolutely. I think something that you said in the very beginning is super important in trying to just differentiate that as you were saying like an expert versus an educator. And the educator is going to have more than just the highlight reel that you're going to be able to find to validate what they're putting out there.

Yeah, absolutely. I think there is such a difference. For sure. All right. Why don't we get into beige flags? Some things that maybe aren't the worst thing, aren't the best thing, but we'll accept them if they happen. Yeah. I think a beige flag is people offering up their educational content on social. I always tell my students, nobody's really thinking hard about what you're putting out there.

start putting your content out, see what sticks. And so I think a beige flag is seeing somebody who's sharing a lot of different educational content on a lot of different things, because they're likely trying to figure out what their audience wants from them. Like it's something that they're likely qualified to talk about or to teach about, but they're just trying to gauge like, okay, does my audience, if I'm a wedding photographer, does my audience wanna learn lighting from me, or do they wanna learn booking from me, or marketing from me? And so if they're sharing a lot of tidbits here and there,

I don't see that as like a red flag. I definitely see it as like a beige flag. Like they're at an intermediate point and they're just trying to figure out what's gonna stick, but they're not unqualified likely. I mean, you never know, but that would be for me a beige flag. Another beige flag I would say is, and this is kind of interesting. This also could be related back to like photography and the way that we price for photography. And you know how, you know, like the adage of like, oh, you're gonna price yourself out or you're gonna like price yourself under. Looking at...

I've worked with coaches who have charged like $400 for an hour long call. And then I've worked with coaches who have charged like $2,000 for an hour long call. And I guess some people would say pricing is a red flag. But to me, I just think it speaks to like, if I'm doing the research and it matches the experience that to me is a beige flag, like it's fine with me. And I think just knowing what you want to invest and what you're hoping to get out of it as a return.

Sandra Henderson (21:48.986)
it's on you. So that's why that's probably why I would categorize that as beige. Yeah, I agree with that one too. I think what you're getting out of the experience factors into the price that you're paying.

We all know that feeling of like putting that money up and not getting what we were expecting out of it. And so that research comes along with it, but I totally agree that like price isn't always a red flag. Some things are absolutely worth every penny when they're really expensive and like I would still pay more for them. So. Friends, I am interrupting this interview because I am so excited to tell you that I just launched a brand new quiz called Let's Talk About It, what your taco preferences reveal about your wedding photography business.

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All right, let's move into the green flags. What are some things that are like, yes, we love it when educators and coaches do this and we want more people to do it too? Yeah, I think one is just transparency. Like that to me is like the greenest of the green flag. Just less showmanship, less like showiness and more like I'm so confident in myself as an educator that I'm okay for you to see the rest of the behind the scenes.

Sandra Henderson (23:48.854)
Like you look at some of the top, not even in like wedding industry or photography industry, but the top like online educators and the top even like professional level, like professors, they're the ones out there who are saying like, hey, I don't know everything, but here is what I know and I'm really good at what I know. And so that's kind of, I feel like I try to be really transparent and say like, you know, this is a season where I'm not doing X, Y, and Z.

because I've done X, Y, and Z to get here. And there's, I have no shame in that. Like, I think that to me differentiates so much a beginning educator and an established, seasoned, experienced educator who can say like, I don't need to be out here showing off like, how much money I make, what I'm doing to do it. You know, I just feel like the transparency of like, hey, this is what I'm great at. This is...

but I'm probably not, but I'm willing to connect the dots for you as well as I can and connect you to people who are even better than me. So that's actually kind of a few green flags. I feel like the secondary green flag to that is just confidence in your ability and the willingness to say when you're not great at something too.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. I have never been in this situation where I've asked a business coach a question and they said, I don't know, or I haven't respected the hell out of them for it because I don't want them to give me some sort of bullshit answer where they're making something up. Like just own up to the fact that you are human and you don't know everything. That's totally fine. And like that to me is like I just respect an educator so much more in that sort of scenario. Yeah, same. And I think that it just shows experience.

I know as most educators who are entrepreneurs and most entrepreneurs who are successful are likely somewhere in like an Enneagram 3 vibe of like the achiever, they're highly motivated, they really want that success. And so it is really difficult in the beginning to be able to say, I don't know the answer to this, like I'm not great at this.

Sandra Henderson (26:04.87)
It is far more helpful to the person that you are being paid by to be honest and transparent about what you know and what you don't. So if listeners are thinking about getting into the education space themselves, what advice would you give for them to encourage them to show up with integrity? Oh my gosh, I have so many things I would say. Probably the first thing I would say is if you want to become an ethical educator with integrity, which I highly suggest doing. You know, one...

I mean, a higher coach, hire somebody who has done it before, somebody qualified. I mean, you can hire me, but that's not really where I'm going with that. It's more so like finding somebody who has done it in the way that you respect and that you admire, not just the person with 200,000 Instagram followers who's like churning out kind of lackluster education. So one, pay for the help, invest in the help, show up to things where other educators are.

I know there's not a lot out there. I'm doing what I can to fix that with the conference and things of that nature. But like, you know, make the connections when you can and where you can. And then start showing up to serve instead of to sell. I know a lot of times we say selling is serving, but in this scenario, I would suggest giving before selling. So like giving some education, seeing where it lands. We talked about it in the beige.

flags, but like that truly is a base flag to me. If you're getting started, you're giving out that education and seeing who wants it, what they want with it, how they're succeeding when using it, and then that will help guide you into paid offers. It's a win-win, you know? Yeah, absolutely. One thing I've always thought as I've been getting into the education space, I've heard a lot of people bring it up to me, like if it was something that I was concerned about and hearing other people talk about how they have that concern is...

that they're worried that they're going to teach people to do it better than them. But the way that I see it is if you're coming into the education space, that's what you want essentially. That means that you're a really good teacher and you want them to be successful in what you're teaching them. So I think that it's super important to kind of wrap your head around that too. Yeah, it's actually really funny. When I first started offering education in the creative industry, I was doing...

Sandra Henderson (28:23.658)
workshops for wedding photographers. So like 15 to 20 people at beautiful venues with style shoots, you know, like back then. Sounds old. Back then that was like not every on every corner or whatever, but style shoots were not like, it was like kind of a big undertaking to do it. So I ended up doing it with a workshop and I'll never forget one of them, one of my attendees was selected for like front.

Front page style me pretty and like, you know, it was huge and it was from the workshop styled shoot and I had to like sign off on it because style me pretty at the time was like, I don't even know if they're still around, but it was a big deal at the time. And I had never been, I had maybe once and definitely not like the front page, not like a big feature. I had maybe even featured on there once. So this student of mine was a hundred percent outperforming me at my own workshop. I mean, to be fair, I didn't submit, but that's...

That's how it could have felt. I was elated. I was like, this is incredible. Because the mindset shift, like you mentioned, I completely agree with you, that you have to shift your mindset from, if you want to be an educator, that means you want your students to outshine you. If you wanna be the expert in the industry, in the top of your industry, then stay there. There's no shame in that. There's no reason to join another industry. And education is its own industry.

if your goal is to be the top of your industry only and to never have competitors. So you have to shift your mindset. And for me, I was like, my initial thought was, well, this is great publicity for me as a teacher, not, oh no, this person outshined me as a photographer. I didn't even think as a photographer in that moment. I thought as the workshop host, I thought what an incredible achievement for my student who showed up and invested in my

at her level will see how beneficial my workshop is. I can help them, I can help more people, I can impact more people and I can make more change as opposed to, oh, her photography is better than mine, way, like, you have to choose, like what's more important to you? Yeah, absolutely. And it is honestly the best feeling when a student comes back to you to tell you how well they're doing. Like I was guest speaking to the college that I...

Sandra Henderson (30:43.67)
went to for photography. And I was just like, I think I was talking about social media. I was definitely that like, you know, expert wanting to turn educator that was just dipping their toe in the water and teaching all the things and going to the college photography program is kind of a great way to do that because they need to learn all the little bits of all the things. And I had one of the students about a week later message me on Facebook telling me that in four days they had more than doubled their Instagram following.

And I was just like, oh, I was so proud, like proud mama moment. And I was like, this gives me so much life. Like I need to keep pursuing this. So it's just the best feeling. I want my students to come to me and be like, I'm doing so much better. Yeah. I think that's something that you'll know when you start offering education, like if it's a good fit for you or not, be able to see like, how important is it to me that these people are thriving based off of my guidance, you know?

It's funny how I kind of think of different educational experiences that I've had. I remember going to a workshop that had a styled shoot as part of it, and the host photographer gave herself the lead spot during the whole portrait session. And I was like, are you here for you? Are we a thing for all of us that are paying to be here? So yeah, things like that. It's funny. You think back on it, and it's like, oh yeah, there was a red flag for sure.

Yeah, if they're placing their body in front of you, that's a red flag. I mean, there's a difference between like, I have to get this one shot for the vendor and then you go versus I'm going to shoot the whole time and you're going to have to shoot around me. Yeah, exactly. All right. That was so helpful. I know that everybody listening is going to have such a better perspective heading into booking their next educational experience. But I do have one last fun little would you rather question.

So if you had to go back to one of your past careers, you already mentioned that you did wedding photography and for everybody that doesn't know, Laylee was also a dance teacher. So would you rather go back to teaching dance full-time or go back to being a wedding photographer full-time? Oh my gosh, that's the hardest question I've ever been asked. I like put together these would you rather questions. I'm like, I almost feel a little mean. Like I'm trying to make it really hard to choose from. That's like, I mean, I'm not kidding. That's the hardest question I've ever been asked.

Sandra Henderson (33:04.002)
because there's so many things I loved about each and things that I really didn't love about each. Yeah. I think at this point in my life, I think today I would choose dance teacher. Yeah. I liked the freedom of wedding photography, but I also didn't like the lack of freedom of wedding. It's such a toss up, but...

Teaching dance was so rewarding in so many other ways too. I mean, they both are. This is why it's so hard. That was a... It's like 1% dance teacher, 49% wedding photographer. For sure. I love that though. That's a great answer. Well, thank you so much, Laili. This was such a fun conversation and I know it's gonna be so helpful for everybody. Actually, before we jump off, could you just let everybody know where they can find you online so they can give you a follow?

Yeah, you can find me on Instagram @laylee_emadi, all the E's in my name, or @thecreativeeducatorconference, also on Instagram. Perfect. Thank you for having me. Of course. So now that you know what to look out for as you head into off season and all of the educators are going to be launching tons of new offers because they always do this time of year.

I hope that you feel confident that you are going to get your money's worth out of whatever it is that you're paying for. Now this episode is dropping the middle of November just before Black Friday. And if you are listening to this around the time of recording, definitely keep an eye out because my coaching calls are going to be going on sale. Little spoiler alert, you can find all of that information on my website, simplysandriavon.ca.

And if you're interested in checking out the Creative Educator Conference that Laylee was talking about during our interview, I want you to head over to the show notes or the description for today's episode, and you're going to find a link there to get all of the information. Unfortunately, I am not going to be going to the conference in 2024, but please don't think that speaks negatively to the experience at all. A lot of times you go to a conference and you feel good when you're walking away, but almost like...

Sandra Henderson (35:13.442)
were things that were missing. There's something that you were hoping to get from it that you didn't. But when I went to the Creative Educator Conference in 2023, it's still 2023 in January, I left feeling like I got absolutely everything that I needed out of it. And this little birdie just wants to jump from the nest and try to fly for a little bit. When the conference happens in 2025, and I'm saying when because lately you have to keep doing this conference.

So when it comes back in 2025, I will definitely be there. And if any of you listening are looking to get into the education space, I can't wait to connect with you there. Anyways, friends have an amazing rest of your week and we will talk again soon. Thank you so much for listening. You can find full show notes from today's episode at simplysandryvonne.ca/keepingitcandid. In the meantime, let's connect.

You can find me on Instagram and TikTok, just search SimplySandraYvonne. And if you're loving this podcast, I'd be so honored if you'd go ahead and hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Until next time.